Audax time limits

[teethgrinder]

A very fast rider can't really test themselves on an Audax because of the minimum time limit.

Folks might get to some early controls ...err... early, but 30kph is flippin quick for 200k on all but the flattest routes. Even Mr Wiggins would struggle with a decent sized saddle-bag, mudguards, riding without a bunch, etc. And if it was too easy for him, he could just get a cheaper/heavier bike!

And anyway, they don't HAVE to get their card stamped.

I very much doubt that someone who can ride 200k at about 40kph would struggle to maintain 30kph average. I know of an ex-pro who rode a 200 in 7 hours. That 7 hours also included a 3 course meal. He wasn't rushing around the event either, just riding.

Audax minimum time is very/pretty fast for top level club riders, but for national level, it's not so quick and for World Class, it's a leisurely plod.

[Martin]

Audax minimum time is very/pretty fast for top level club riders, but for national level, it's not so quick and for World Class, it's a leisurely plod.

but the whole deal is that we attract very very few of those type of riders so why change it? it's already flexible enough to cater for most riders; it's the broadest church of any branch of cycling I've ever doen which is why I enjoy it so much.

isn't it supposed to be by definition "bold"? it has to be some sort of a challenge.

[Bones]

isn't it supposed to be by definition "bold"? it has to be some sort of a challenge.
[/quote]

Yes it is but speed isn't the only challenge, navigating, bike fixing, getting home with the bike in disrepair are a few others and I am sure others can think of more.

If the only challenge someone wants is pure speed then they can time trial. As others have said above I like audax as it is so inclusive and combines so many things. Now someone just needs to take on the challenge of finding 200k of 5% downhill for wowbagger 

[Wowbagger]

The time limits are one of the reasons that I can't be bothered with audax any more. Admittedly, they are not the major one: travelling a long way by train or car to get to the start and arriving home horribly late afterwards are more important.

But I've always found the times to be an added unwelcome pressure. If I'm going to go out of my way to go for a bike ride, it will be for the scenery and the company. No-one who wants to complete the audax wants to go at my pace because I'm too slow for them and if I'm always busting a gut to keep my overall average over 15kph then I don't get the chance to relax and enjoy the ride, or spend time in cafés and pubs.

In addition, all too many audaxes have used roads which makes me wonder why anyone would ever want to ride for pleasure along them.

I don't think that Audax rides are for you anyway. You're more of a plodding leisure rider who likes to explore in detail.

I know, Steve! That's why I haven't done any recently and haven't bothered to renew my membership.

Another thing I like doing is planning the route myself using a variety of maps, rather than relying on the organiser's route sheet. I get a pretty good picture of what I'm letting myself in for just by looking at the Landranger map and, although of course you can (and I always did before an audax) plod through the route sheet with Streetmap and Googlemaps open on the screen in front of you, the route sheet doesn't give you a feel for the landscape the way the map does.

However, that's off topic.

[Jaded]

I transfer the route sheet instructions to Tracklogs and so have the knowledge of the landscape.

[Rimnod]

For some of us who are new to Audax riding, an Audax is a Time Trail 

[urban_biker]

For some of us who are new to Audax riding, an Audax is a Time Trail 

It tends to start that way. But as you do more an more of them you will probably find you get faster. I certainly have, although I am still pushing the time boundaries on a 600k. I'm now a lot faster on 200k/300k rides. Not racing fast - but somewhere comfortably in-between.

[LEE]

As I have found out on serval of my last few Audaxes the time limits are forgiving enough providing everything goes smoothly.  It doesn't take much in the way of bad weather, missing a turn, a puncture-fest or general bike problems to put you under pressure to get back in time.

If I want a real challenge then I'll set a personal time goal for an Audax.  Sub 10 hours for a 200 is a very tough challenge for me but doable.  Through a combination of events on Sunday I managed to exceed that time (although I wasn't pushing for a fast time) by over 3 hours and was in danger of being out of time.

Leave it as it is.  Riding 200km and above is audacious/bold enough without turning it into an elite time-trial.

[phil d]

I have a great deal of sympathy with Wow's comments, as they echo Mrs D's views.  We have stopped doing audax on the tandem, as she resented the implied pressure on time.  She is a more traditional tourist, and likes to dawdle at cafes, visit churches or whatever.  So what we have decided (but not yet, as it happens, applied) is that because we like the routes provided for audax events in parts of the country we don't know well we will enter events to get the routesheets, and then ride it at another time at a speed of our choosing*.  This way, we think we get the best of both worlds, without avoiding the organiser's proprietorial interest.

I actually like the challange of the audax format, so continue to ride events solo.

* it would be our plan to advise the organiser at the time of "entry" so no money is wasted providing a card etc.

[Ian H]

I have a great deal of sympathy with Wow's comments, as they echo Mrs D's views...

No one has to ride to Audax time limits. The events are there for those who wish to do them. All my routesheets are freely available online for anyone to download and use. I only expect money from those who want their rides validated.

[Polar Bear]

The time limits are one of the reasons that I can't be bothered with audax any more. Admittedly, they are not the major one: travelling a long way by train or car to get to the start and arriving home horribly late afterwards are more important.

But I've always found the times to be an added unwelcome pressure. If I'm going to go out of my way to go for a bike ride, it will be for the scenery and the company. No-one who wants to complete the audax wants to go at my pace because I'm too slow for them and if I'm always busting a gut to keep my overall average over 15kph then I don't get the chance to relax and enjoy the ride, or spend time in cafés and pubs.

...

Entirely agree WB.     

[Weirdy Biker]

The Lands End John O Groats permanent I organise to BP standard has a minimum speed of 3kph precisely because I am happy for people to compromise the joys of audax with those of touring.

Reflects my opinion that BP events should be touring rides.  I'd go as far as saying that all permanent rides should have a box to tick as to whether you want to ride it to BP or BR standard.  The former would then be touring rides to be completed in a leisurely timescale - for example, a 400 to be completed in 5.5 days (again 3kph minimum speed).  This could benefit organisers as well, as it might encourage BP riders who act as detailed route checkers (or suggest pleasant diversions).

[John Henry]

Reflects my opinion that BP events should be touring rides.  I'd go as far as saying that all permanent rides should have a box to tick as to whether you want to ride it to BP or BR standard. 

I like this idea. Some of the longer Audax routes would make a wonderful leisurely tour.

I used to ride a few Audaxes. In many ways I enjoyed them (great atmosphere), but I just couldn't deal with the time limit. Even if I was well within time (which I normally was), the thought of the clock ticking would be nagging away, and pushing me to ride just that little bit faster than was comfortable..

I was never motivated by awards and points either, though I realise that many people are. So now I just tour at my own pace and smell the flowers (and taste the beer).

I wouldn't suggest that Audaxes should be changed, though. It's obviously a formula which works for a wide range of people, and if it ain't borked you don't fix it. One day if I get into the right frame of mind I might do some more, though I've no plans to at the moment.

[mattc]

The Lands End John O Groats permanent I organise to BP standard has a minimum speed of 3kph precisely because I am happy for people to compromise the joys of audax with those of touring.

Reflects my opinion that BP events should be touring rides.  I'd go as far as saying that all permanent rides should have a box to tick as to whether you want to ride it to BP or BR standard.  The former would then be touring rides to be completed in a leisurely timescale - for example, a 400 to be completed in 5.5 days (again 3kph minimum speed).  This could benefit organisers as well, as it might encourage BP riders who act as detailed route checkers (or suggest pleasant diversions).

Crackin idea. Getting more bums on seats, and AUK may gain a few converts as a bonus.

[teethgrinder]

Reflects my opinion that BP events should be touring rides.  I'd go as far as saying that all permanent rides should have a box to tick as to whether you want to ride it to BP or BR standard. 

I like this idea. Some of the longer Audax routes would make a wonderful leisurely tour.

I used to ride a few Audaxes. In many ways I enjoyed them (great atmosphere), but I just couldn't deal with the time limit. Even if I was well within time (which I normally was), the thought of the clock ticking would be nagging away, and pushing me to ride just that little bit faster than was comfortable..

Yes, many audax rides would be good to use as a tour route, or a frame to build a tour upon. I like the pressure aspect of Audaxing, but not all of the time. Audaxing is just one type of cycling though. Touring is great too. I spent 5 months touring around on and off road in 2005. One of the biggest joys of that was I was never under pressure of time limits or distance, except when I chose to be on a few occasions.
It would be/is good that organisers freely give out their routesheets to the cycling community in general so that they can be ridden, even if not in the same style.

I'd leave the time limit alone at the slow end. But I'd prefer not to have the 30kph maximum, not that it troubles me very often, but I think it would attract more riders. It most likely won't happen anyway. AUK works well at what it does.

[3peaker]

[quote
I'd leave the time limit alone at the slow end. But I'd prefer not to have the 30kph maximum, not that it troubles me very often, but I think it would attract more riders. It most likely won't happen anyway. AUK works well at what it does.
[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting that for a Calendar event with manned Controls, someone/many has volunteered to be there to support you the rider.  The 30kph brings about the time the Control will be manned and the 15kph, when she/he can think about going home.  If the time window involves hire of a Hall or some other organised event (?meal), then some order will prevail. 

Different argument for Perms perhaps but the way you ride a Perm Audax is normally similar to a calendar.  No problem with touring but that has a different following/conduct but not the rigidity of external organisation.

SteveP

[teethgrinder]

You seem to be forgetting that for a Calendar event with manned Controls, someone/many has volunteered to be there to support you the rider.  The 30kph brings about the time the Control will be manned and the 15kph, when she/he can think about going home.  If the time window involves hire of a Hall or some other organised event (?meal), then some order will prevail. 

No I'm not. There are ways around that if you use info controls or commercial controls. Some organisers struggle with a maximum 30kph as it is, but it all works out in the end. If it did happen, which it probably won't, it's just a matter of logistics which may alter the event a bit.

[Ivo]

Yes, many audax rides would be good to use as a tour route, or a frame to build a tour upon.

That's what I mostly do when routechecking my events. I try to pass a YH every 100-150km for the longer events so I can ride it as a nice long weekend admiring the views I'll miss when I'm doing it audax-style.

[Ian H]

..I try to pass a YH every 100-150km for the longer events so I can ride it as a nice long weekend admiring the views I'll miss when I'm doing it audax-style.

I think I missed a trick with my Kernow and SW 600. It's still a nice little ride though.

[Hummers]

Why change the times?

If people don't want to be under pressure of time or limited by them, they don't have to do the rides, do they? There are plenty of other styles of cycling to chose from and increasingly, groups of people that will join you at whatever pace you want to ride at as long as you are not a weirdo anti-social wanker.*

*Actually, judging by some of the Audax events I have ridden, I am not sure that last statement stands up to scrutiny.

For people who volunteer to help on events, the current time span is tricky enough as it is. I was the finish controller for Postie's October 200 and there was over 6 hours between the first pint and whiskey chasers before closing time first rider and lanterne rouge.

H

[JohnHamilton]

The Lands End John O Groats permanent I organise to BP standard has a minimum speed of 3kph precisely because I am happy for people to compromise the joys of audax with those of touring.

There is nothing in the regs that prevents any organiser from doing this. BP events do not have to be less than 200k and can have pretty much any speed limit the organiser sets. So it's perfectly possible to do this, and even organise calendar events in the same fashion (e.g. the Manche-Med tour). It's all (as usual) up to the organiser.

[Weirdy Biker]

H - I agree for calendar events.  Even on a 100 the spread can be surprising.  3 hours from first to last.  Perms can be more flexible though, albeit riders would be validated to BP standard or not at all.

In my experience, the speed limits are about right.  If you are always time-pressured on an audax event, then you are simply either not suited to audax style events or are worshipers of the god of faff.

[Weirdy Biker]

The Lands End John O Groats permanent I organise to BP standard has a minimum speed of 3kph precisely because I am happy for people to compromise the joys of audax with those of touring.

There is nothing in the regs that prevents any organiser from doing this. BP events do not have to be less than 200k and can have pretty much any speed limit the organiser sets. So it's perfectly possible to do this, and even organise calendar events in the same fashion (e.g. the Manche-Med tour). It's all (as usual) up to the organiser.

Indeed.  I wasn't meaning that AUK had to lead on this.  It's for the organisers to set the speed limits.  All it needs is an copy of the event in the permanent calendar (and ideally something on the card to distinguish BP and BR, since there is no point in printing two sets of cards for the same event - the E2E rides have a tick box).

[Manotea]

My Little Willies get an extra 15km worth of cycling pleasure to stop them coming home prematurely.

[phil d]

I have a great deal of sympathy with Wow's comments, as they echo Mrs D's views...

No one has to ride to Audax time limits. The events are there for those who wish to do them. All my routesheets are freely available online for anyone to download and use. I only expect money from those who want their rides validated.

I think that we are agreed.  Many organisers make their routes freely available, but they are not required to and I would think no less of them for not doing so.  But I consider it polite to offer.