Author Topic: Tour de France 2012  (Read 143088 times)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1025 on: 23 July, 2012, 12:03:26 pm »

If Sky had woken up in the first week to the fact that the safest place in the peleton in the last 10km is on the front and run a leadout train for Cav rather than try to keep Brad out of trouble they could have taken more stages and kept Brad safe.


SKY seemed to do OK in the Tour.  Just my opinion of course.

GC (Brit)
3 Stages for Cav (Brit)
2 Stages for Wiggins (Brit)
A stage for Froome. (Brit)

I think we'd all have settled for that before the start.

We don't know what the effects would have been if Wiggins had been involved in countless Leadout trains.  Possible weakened himself for the mountains and TT.  It was clear that, once the GC was in the bag, Wiggins felt free to have some fun and help Cav but it was too risky to do this between Mountain stages.

Accepted, and this is the compromise Cav had to accept when Wiggins was such a strong favorite for yellow.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1026 on: 23 July, 2012, 12:09:46 pm »
Next year, Sky might feel more confident and also less pressured to deliver the first, long-awaited British yellow jersey, so maybe they'll be able to put more effort into getting Cav his train. Perhaps. Though I really think they'll continue to concentrate on one yellow jersey contender, whether that's Wiggo or Froome.

No other sprinting team felt that confident in their sprinters to put in the effort, unlike in previous years when HTC did and would.
Or no other team that didn't also have a GC contender - perhaps Sagan would have won the Green Jersey by an even greater margin if he hadn't been on the same team as Nibali?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1027 on: 23 July, 2012, 12:12:52 pm »
Don't forget as well that Sky had to be conservative in their efforts on the flat stages because they lost one of their key climbing domestiques on the very first proper stage. Things could have been different if, say, they'd been able to use EBH and Rogers more as leadout men rather than have them doing extra-long shifts in the mountains.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1028 on: 23 July, 2012, 12:30:00 pm »
Part of Jeremy Vine's R2 show today will be about the Tour de France and whether winning it is as much of an achievement as winning Wimbledon, the World Cup or the Ashes.  ::-)
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1029 on: 23 July, 2012, 12:46:44 pm »
Achievement for who? The individual sportster, the team, or do they mean in terms of 'national pride'?

What if Cav and Rooney swopped roles?  :demon:
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1030 on: 23 July, 2012, 12:56:47 pm »
The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1031 on: 23 July, 2012, 01:07:07 pm »
The contributors selected to be on J Vine Show will be those who share the presenter's point of view... + a few inarticulate "nutters" to express the opposite point of view so as to give a sham appearance of "balance".

Karla

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1032 on: 23 July, 2012, 01:59:44 pm »
Cavendish raced his 6th tour this year, Sagan his first.  Give the guy a break!

The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.

CTT's take on all this is that Wiggo is the first person to win the Tour de France and also the National 10.  Given the scarcity of foreign riders in British TTs, that's hardly surprising.


Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1033 on: 23 July, 2012, 02:03:33 pm »
No sidies!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1034 on: 23 July, 2012, 02:15:42 pm »
... perhaps Sagan would have won the Green Jersey by an even greater margin if he hadn't been on the same team as Nibali?

Sagan looked liked a one trick pony, staying tucked in near the yellow jersey for most of the stages then following the lead out riders for the sprints and trying to outsprint 4 or 5 in the final 300 metres. One the whole it seemed to be a one man tactic. Cavendish came across as more mature and a better tactician.

Nibali could therefore afford to have the rest of the team ride for him. 3rd place shows he has the ability ... with a little help from his friends.
It's surely impossible to finish in the top three without support from your team. That Nibali did it and Evans didn't must reflect partly on the riders and partly on a better organised team. I wonder how well Van Garderen could have done if he'd been team leader rather than Evans? Quite possibly he would have cracked under the pressure. Or maybe not. Either way he's obviously a talent to watch for in the next few years (though personally I find I dislike him, but I might just be having a bad reaction to his accent  :-[ ).
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

JT

  • Howay the lads!
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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1035 on: 23 July, 2012, 02:35:06 pm »
I was just thinking about the incredible "Brad and Cav show" back in 2008 when they won the Madison to become world champions in one of the most exciting track races ever:



I never thought that 4 years later I would see them on the road, in the same team, wearing these jerseys on Avenue des Champs-Élysées:



And I was at both!  :smug:  ;D
a great mind thinks alike

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1036 on: 23 July, 2012, 02:35:29 pm »
The beeb's 10 reasons is fun http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18922103 especially:

Quote
Wiggins sometimes climbed 4km (2.5 miles) in the course of day's training, his power output constantly monitored by Kerrison, and plotted on graphs

I think this means I have the potential to win the TdF (at least in my dreams)

Rhys W

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1037 on: 23 July, 2012, 04:16:45 pm »
You do realise he means 4km of vertical height gained, right?

The Bwlch is roughly 500m, so that's 8 times up it (from sea level at Port Talbot) in a day.  :o

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1038 on: 23 July, 2012, 04:21:45 pm »
I've had a little google around, but can't seem to find an answer - what sort of ascent amount are they doing on a mountain stage in the Alps or Pyrenees?

4000m a day is a lot in my book (recent Mille Alba was roughly that each day for three days - plenty enough for me!). 
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1039 on: 23 July, 2012, 04:40:43 pm »
Yebbut, I know I could do that, or at least could have done at my fittest, It's tough, but not superhuman - I'm sure many here could manage. I'd be more inclined to think they managed 25Km vertical training. Tourmalet day on the tour is more than double that climbing, isn't it?

(and yes 4Km is plenty and prob my limit, too)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1040 on: 23 July, 2012, 04:47:52 pm »
Looking at the profile of stage 16, there was about 1500m, then 1700, then 400 then 600, so 4,200 or a bit more. Still think if they were training for climbing they would have done more.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1041 on: 23 July, 2012, 04:54:13 pm »
I can find ascent figures for individual climbs, but over a whole stage - must be way more than 4000m of ascent by the time you add up all the little ripples on the way to each of the big climbs of the day.

They certainly earn their money on mountain days!  I saw the rumour of two ascents of Alpe d'Huez (in one day) for next year's 100th anniversary running.  Ouch. 
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1042 on: 23 July, 2012, 04:57:21 pm »
Oh.... and on the Bandwagon front....

These guys http://www.bauduc.com/ who do decent wine (tenner+ a bottle in the UK, can be done in France without duty) are handing out one of these :



With every order for > 12 bottles up to the end of July. I am curiously tempted.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1043 on: 23 July, 2012, 05:00:52 pm »
Damn damn damn.

I was going to avoid mentioning they are also having a free draw for 10 aprons, email freddie@bauduc.com with the subject "Yellow apron prize draw" but my honesty got the better of me.

One assumes you will go on their mailing, but as I said they are really quite decent, so what's bad about that?


mattc

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1044 on: 23 July, 2012, 06:06:43 pm »
The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.
Hear Hear  :thumbsup:
Wiggo has gone up even further in my estimations this month, and that joke was the icing on the cake. Good for him.

(and I hope a few sportifs read your comment)


Edit: I've just seen the 'gold hat' in Bunbury's picture - they're hideous! Is that BB with him?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Hillbilly

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1045 on: 23 July, 2012, 06:41:26 pm »
I've had a little google around, but can't seem to find an answer - what sort of ascent amount are they doing on a mountain stage in the Alps or Pyrenees?

4000m a day is a lot in my book (recent Mille Alba was roughly that each day for three days - plenty enough for me!).

The French CTC (FFTC) put on events that could be TdF stages by distance and terrain, and they are generally in the low 4000m's range over 210km or thereabouts (these events are in the Jura, Massif Central, Vosges). 

Not sure of providence, but click the "preview" on the stage block to the right (you have to scroll down a bit) of the following page:

http://www.steephill.tv/tour-de-france/

Gives an "estimate" of the climb of each stage.

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1046 on: 23 July, 2012, 06:54:12 pm »
The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.
Hear Hear  :thumbsup:
Wiggo has gone up even further in my estimations this month, and that joke was the icing on the cake. Good for him.

(and I hope a few sportifs read your comment)


Edit: I've just seen the 'gold hat' in Bunbury's picture - they're hideous! Is that BB with him?

If BB means Beryl Burton then no, she died in 1996.  Bradley didn't win it until 2011.

(I've got one of those gold caps - but more yellow in my time).

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1047 on: 23 July, 2012, 07:06:39 pm »
http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local-news/tour-de-france-winner-bradley-wiggins-to-ride-in-east-lancashire-1-4764910

He's riding a cyclosportive in Pendle and the Ribble Valley in August - Barlick to Barlick via a few lumps (Nick O'Pendle, Trough of Bowland, etc). My home turf! Mum just reported he was being interviewed at a Lancashire crossroads saying it was a 'little bit overwhelming!'

I too loved his raffle comment, though I wish he'd said at least a few words in French. Cavendish was overheard trying to speak French in the early parts of yesterday's stage. He kept inquiring, "Was that right? Did I say it right?" :)

microphonie

  • Tyke 2
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1048 on: 23 July, 2012, 07:11:14 pm »
Oh.... and on the Bandwagon front....

These guys http://www.bauduc.com/ who do decent wine (tenner+ a bottle in the UK, can be done in France without duty) are handing out one of these :



With every order for > 12 bottles up to the end of July. I am curiously tempted.

This cash-in by Howies is slightly better: Sideburns of Glory
Bingo! That's what I am, a saviour.
A sort of cocky version of Jesus.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #1049 on: 23 July, 2012, 07:21:43 pm »

(I've got one of those gold caps - but more yellow in my time).
Brilliant! Maybe it's just the photo, but that looks a much more tasteful colour.
(I have no idea what/who/where GHS is - you should comment the piccie, no harm in blowing your own trumpet :) )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles