Author Topic: Really bad books you've read  (Read 20562 times)

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #100 on: 23 December, 2020, 02:50:58 pm »
Captain Corelli's Mandolin...tried several times to read it, but stopped because boredom
[/quote

It's a terrible, terrible book. Boring and overwrought.

You should* try reading some of his other books, most of which seem to have titles like The Inspirational Revelations of Professor Gomez's Bag of Suppositories or something like that.   


*by which I mean 'should not', for the sake of your sanity
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #101 on: 23 December, 2020, 02:59:03 pm »
Not all books have to be great.

Otherwise how would we ever get "How to Date Your Dragon"

I've listened to loads of Mr Alexander. It's really easy mile munching forgettable fluff.

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #102 on: 23 December, 2020, 03:22:44 pm »
Oh, I agree, a good book doesn't have to be fantastically written. Good writing and good storytelling are different arts. One complements the other, of course. To be honest, I find good writing a bit of a chore without a story to drive it. Kingsley Amis had his moments, like the visceral description of a hangover, but other than the occasional moment his books are mostly dull. I find a lot of that with middle-brow literature. There are bits where I find myself thinking blimey, I wish I could write something like that. But it's cemented into a wall of drudgery. I like to occasionally dip into the Booker list. It's full of stuff like that. I mean, some of it is really good. I just don't really want to read it.

Of course, there's the cruel confluence of shit writing and shit storytelling, which finds its nadir in stuff like Twilight. Stodgy writing (the curse of adjectives and adverbs again) and a tired rehash of a story machined-gunned with plot holes. For added grimness, it's basically a book to tell teenage girls that an abusive relationship is OK if he's a cool guy. Remember, stalking means he loves you lots. That's even worse than sparkly vampires. The absolute fuck.

I didn't actually realise that Fifty Shades was actually Twilight fanfic. That's the nadir of a nadir. We're going to need a bigger toilet.

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #103 on: 23 December, 2020, 03:50:34 pm »
To be honest, I find good writing a bit of a chore without a story to drive it.

^This. My wife can, and does, re-read books purely for the language in them (a lot of Helen Dunmore for example). I just can't cope without a decent narrative with the beginning, middle and end.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #104 on: 23 December, 2020, 04:09:34 pm »
... the plot (which I assume follows the book) is exactly that of Star Wars.
Aren’t they all? (Other than the first wheel of time book, which rips off narnia and the lord of the rings in equal measure).

I cannot comment about Alexander’s works as I have only ever read 3&1/2 pillars of wisdom.  He does write three books a year though, so anything above mediocre would be impressive.

I really rather enjoyed the 3 1/2 Pillars Of Wisdom.  It was the best part of 20 years ago that I read it - I have vague recollections about sausage dogs and Portuguese irregular verbs.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #105 on: 23 December, 2020, 05:02:42 pm »
Quote from: ian
... a weighty hardback copy of Harry Potter and Philosopher's Stone.

It's not as bad as I feared...
Compared to Enid Blyton I think you'll find Ms Rowling is a literary genius.  Well..., perhaps not but, I remember reading *reams* of Mrs (definitely _not_ Ms) Blyton's stuff when I was busy lurking at primary school.  Secret Seven {insert remainder of title} and Five {insert *parody* title} etc.  Ms Rowling's stuff is no worse and some might say it's a good deal better for the lack of crashingly unpleasant and offensive stereotyping of peoples other than middle class whitey.  And as bad as Blyton's (and Rowling's) work appears to an adult's eyes we're (arguments about whether I count as grown up or not can be held elsewhere) not the target audience.  Yeah, I have read the Potter stories.  No, they're not great literature but they do tell a story and not all that badly.  If I'd had those instead of Blyton at primary school I'd have been blown away.

Regarding Mr Clancy et al.  If you want formulaic books, allegedly, aimed at adults dig out a few J. T. Edsons.  My dad had shelves of Mr. Edson's westerns.  By the time I was 15 I'd read the lot (40? 50?) and decided they were all the same damned story and not worth the paper they were printed on, still better than anything E.E. Smith ever wrote.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #106 on: 23 December, 2020, 05:19:56 pm »
Talking of formulaic...

I'm a big fan of PG Wodehouse, and I've read all but a handful of the 90-something books he published in his lifetime. His golden age was undoubtedly post-WWI up to the mid-1930s, but he was still churning them out until not long before he died in the 1970s. And I'll be brutally honest, "churning them out" is putting it kindly. Many of his later books, from the late 1950s onwards, really are not very good at all.

I think this later work is part of the reason he's often regarded as not to be taken seriously as a writer.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #107 on: 23 December, 2020, 05:24:39 pm »
On which note, does the panel think the No.1 Ladies Detective Agency series deserve a mention in this thread? I did read the first couple before I got thoroughly bored of them, but they made so little impression on me that I can't actually recall if they're genuinely bad or just dull.
Friday mornings I help out in a charity bookshop. I was joking to the manager just a fortnight ago that soon we'll have to give McCall Smith his own shelf.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #108 on: 23 December, 2020, 05:43:20 pm »
I'm going to call out False Value, Ben Aaronovitch's latest too. None of you explained the time shift nonsense to me (I double-checked the internet, it's not just me), and it still makes no sense. Lots of cryptic references, presumably to some side-story graphic novels, and tbh, the plot seems little more than a lead-in to future books. To get there there are acres of tedious Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy (I'll get there, iconoclast fans) references. Hilarity ensues. Stayed tuned for the chapter in which Peter carries food to the park. Or the one in which Chinese food is ordered.

This is turning into books ian doesn't like, isn't it?

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #109 on: 23 December, 2020, 05:57:38 pm »
Quote from: ian
out False Value, ... and it still makes no sense.
Umm does it matter?   Open book, switch off critical and logical circuits, enjoy lightweight nonsense about *magical* cops & villains.

Quote from: ian
...tbh, the plot seems little more than a lead-in to future books.
On that we can agree, the whole had a definite feeling of marking time.

Quote from: ian
This is turning into books ian doesn't like, isn't it?
Aye, but it's good fun because you convey disdain, dismay, disappointment and disgust so well and it gives the rest of us an excuse to come up with counter arguments and protests.  Please continue, you are entertaining us mightily*  :)


*Pls accept apologies for the Bozo the Clown impression.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #110 on: 23 December, 2020, 06:51:08 pm »
A couple of points:

Harry Potter - when the books were appearing, my mother was a supply teacher and whenever a new book came out, ALL the children would be reading whenever they got a chance. This was particularly notable with the ones who otherwise never voluntarily picked up a book. That has to be a good thing, whatever the merits of the series as literature.

Turgid prose - way back in the early '80s I did a lot of long distance1 travelling by train. I'd pick up remaindered books to while the time away. One was a series of essays by Gore Vidal. One section was on fiction writing2. His theory was that most American novels were being written by academics for other academics to review and criticise and weren't really meant to be entertainment. The style and technique were more important than the content.

Another book I didn't finish. The Game of Kings by Dorothy Dunnett. An ex-girlfriend was almost obsessed with this series. I've tried twice, one when I was still seeing her, and once about thirty years later. I did get a bit further on the second time, but not that far.

1: Southampton to Snowdonia for the weekend, for instance
2: the other section was about American politics. He always referred to Nixon as the First Criminal. I have often wondered what he would have made of the soon to be ex-incumbent of that office.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #111 on: 23 December, 2020, 07:26:10 pm »
...
Turgid prose - way back in the early '80s I did a lot of long distance1 travelling by train. I'd pick up remaindered books to while the time away. One was a series of essays by Gore Vidal. One section was on fiction writing2. His theory was that most American novels were being written by academics for other academics to review and criticise and weren't really meant to be entertainment. The style and technique were more important than the content.
...

1: Southampton to Snowdonia for the weekend, for instance
2: the other section was about American politics. He always referred to Nixon as the First Criminal. I have often wondered what he would have made of the soon to be ex-incumbent of that office.


See also Hunter S. Thompson, who would have had plenty of material for another "Fear and Loathing..." book. A key quote about the Watergate episode could just as easily apply to the Trump presidency:

"The slow-rising central horror of "Watergate" is not that it might grind down to the reluctant impeachment of a vengeful thug of a president whose entire political career has been a monument to the same kind of cheap shots and treachery he finally got nailed for, but that we might somehow fail to learn something from it."
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #112 on: 23 December, 2020, 08:39:51 pm »
A couple of points:

Harry Potter - when the books were appearing, my mother was a supply teacher and whenever a new book came out, ALL the children would be reading whenever they got a chance. This was particularly notable with the ones who otherwise never voluntarily picked up a book. That has to be a good thing, whatever the merits of the series as literature.

Turgid prose - way back in the early '80s I did a lot of long distance1 travelling by train. I'd pick up remaindered books to while the time away. One was a series of essays by Gore Vidal. One section was on fiction writing2. His theory was that most American novels were being written by academics for other academics to review and criticise and weren't really meant to be entertainment. The style and technique were more important than the content.

Another book I didn't finish. The Game of Kings by Dorothy Dunnett. An ex-girlfriend was almost obsessed with this series. I've tried twice, one when I was still seeing her, and once about thirty years later. I did get a bit further on the second time, but not that far.

1: Southampton to Snowdonia for the weekend, for instance
2: the other section was about American politics. He always referred to Nixon as the First Criminal. I have often wondered what he would have made of the soon to be ex-incumbent of that office.


I will be happily be judged harshly for disparaging Harry Potter if they're getting kids to read without having to resort to electrical shocks. My plan to do the same with the Fifty Shades series hasn't yet got off the ground. Plan B is to get The Continuing Adventures of Takeshi Kovac's Penis added to the curriculum. It worked for me – which child of my generation didn't have well-read copies of such epics as The Rats – there's be some guaranteed around-the-maypole action by page 72, as the love interest would reach out and tightly grasp... [this page intentionally left blank]

Gore Vidal is, I think, correct. Most literary fiction on both sides of the Atlantic seems to be written for the reviewers and critics, who quite often are also literary fiction writers. Older literary fiction is a bit more approachable, the modern stuff tries too hard and yet, underneath the usual conceit, comes across as quite samey.

Reminds me, as we're on prize-winning literary fiction, I should mention Wolf Hall which was a bit like running a marathon while carrying a double bed with a copulating fat couple on top of it. I don't doubt the author's dedication but honestly, it took forever zipping back and forth to figure out who, in any of given two-and-half-page long paragraph was doing the talking. A process not helped by the book featuring what seemed like 27 doubtfully different Thomases of whom only one was the narrator. With the singular economy of one pronoun she'd be simultaneously be referring to eight different men. Who the fuck is 'he'? In parts I don't think even he knew. The 'shes' were easier as there were only about three in Tudor times.

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #113 on: 23 December, 2020, 08:57:55 pm »
Reminds me of Russian literature - when characters have a given name, a patronymic and a diminutive nickname, it can take a while to get to grips with who's talking to whom.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #114 on: 23 December, 2020, 09:28:36 pm »
Ed Sanders' non-fiction book about the Manson Family goes the opposite way, unless it's the same way.  You rapidly get fed up of reading “Patricia Krenwinkel aka Big Patty aka Yellow aka Marnie Reeves aka Mary Ann Scott aka Katie” and since every one of them seemed to have at least three different names the damn' thing is about half as thick again as it needs to be.  Eventually he stops doing it, probably because of RSI in his typing finger, otherwise it still wouldn’t be finished.
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Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #115 on: 23 December, 2020, 09:35:00 pm »
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #116 on: 23 December, 2020, 10:00:05 pm »
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall

The next two hundred aren't a lot better. Thomas gets his.

Did I mention the Book of Mormon, my faithful snowstorm companion in Durango CO? Honestly, this was the thunderclap-fart-Heavenly-midden variety of awful. Waft and sniff, it's got something special going on. It's like leaping through a swamp of mushy peas in wellies. And just as much fun.

Imagine if you were going to have a crack at writing a parody book of the bible, this shalt be it. It goes brilliant with $4 gas-station vodka and snowbound solitude. I laughed my eyeballs out. A misfortune profound considering the hotel room carpet.

If you don't know Mormonism, it's pretty much the sort of religion someone would make up if they were stranded in hotel room with a six-pack and a half-bottle of the only vodka the gas station had in stock. Russki vodka. Drink it or put it in the Suburu, at least the latter would be better for you. Basically, imagine some angels went on package holiday to the US in prehistoric times and left their holiday reading behind. Oops. With Joseph Smith stumbled upon. Ah, blessed golden revelation! Of course, he managed to lose it. Probably blamed the wife. Wives. Or John the Baptist who was reading them in the bath. If this is making sense, get out while you're ahead.

Having been kicked out of the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve shacked up in Daviess County, Missouri. Jews and Indians. Mormons have magic underpants. These facts will gently coddle you as the snow falls deeply outside and the cheap alcohol snozzles your brain.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #117 on: 23 December, 2020, 10:11:04 pm »
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall

This needs expanding on... did you then enjoy the last 200 pages? Or was that the point at which you stopped reading? If the former, was it worth the effort to get that far? If the latter, why didn’t you stop sooner?

I vaguely recall that the pace does pick up towards the end. I loved it. All 600 pages. And Bring Up The Bodies is even better. Not read the latest one yet - feel I need to read the first two again as a refresher before I take it on.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #118 on: 23 December, 2020, 10:44:20 pm »
I found the literary device of not bothering to indicate who was talking pointless and irritating, and yes, the first 400 pages were tedium. I did quite like the last 200 when there was some sort of plot.

Why did I persist? I had no choice. I was being forced to read it.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #119 on: 23 December, 2020, 11:27:50 pm »
Why did I persist? I had no choice. I was being forced to read it.

Ouch!
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #120 on: 24 December, 2020, 07:21:54 am »
Quote from: spesh
Reminds me of Russian literature - when characters have a given name, a patronymic and a diminutive nickname, it can take a while to get to grips with who's talking to whom.
My two paperback volumes of War & Peace, a birthday gift in 1978, went to Oxfam 2 or 3 years ago.  I never got past chapter 3 despite *many* attempts because of this.  Volume 2 was never opened.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #121 on: 24 December, 2020, 08:27:25 am »
Quote from: spesh
Reminds me of Russian literature - when characters have a given name, a patronymic and a diminutive nickname, it can take a while to get to grips with who's talking to whom.
My two paperback volumes of War & Peace, a birthday gift in 1978, went to Oxfam 2 or 3 years ago.  I never got past chapter 3 despite *many* attempts because of this.  Volume 2 was never opened.

That's just Russian! Given name plus patronymic is the formal form, given name only is informal, patronymic only indicates close friendship, diminutive forms of the given name indicate affection of greater or lesser extent (there will be several, if not several dozen, possible dimunitives for any name), double diminutives indicate extreme affection. There are also augmentative forms to show dislike. To anyone brought up in English it can be a bit confusing.

Actually diminutives are central to the language and you can apply then to almost anything to express your feelings. Russian is much better at expressing emotion than meaning.


rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #122 on: 24 December, 2020, 08:34:47 am »
Isn't the Twilight series basically a girl trying to choose between necrophilia or bestiality?
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #123 on: 24 December, 2020, 09:16:30 am »
Russian is much better at expressing emotion than meaning.

This explains a lot!
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

ian

Re: Really bad books you've read
« Reply #124 on: 24 December, 2020, 09:44:48 am »
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall

This needs expanding on... did you then enjoy the last 200 pages? Or was that the point at which you stopped reading? If the former, was it worth the effort to get that far? If the latter, why didn’t you stop sooner?

I vaguely recall that the pace does pick up towards the end. I loved it. All 600 pages. And Bring Up The Bodies is even better. Not read the latest one yet - feel I need to read the first two again as a refresher before I take it on.

I didn't hate the book – it's a fascinating story – but I agree with Deflatus that the confusion seemed engineered (or they really couldn't afford editors). I'm not sure the benefit other than to make it seem a bit cleverer. I don't believe there's anyone who read it and didn't get confused, because at times there was no possible way to know without going back and trying to build a map of who was talking to who. The simple expedient of using a name would have solved it and made the entire book a lot more readable. But of course, wouldn't have been clever.

Isn't the Twilight series basically a girl trying to choose between necrophilia or bestiality?

I only did the one of them, but that was necrophilia. It's nice for a girl to have choices, I suppose. The creepy thing was that she was mooning over an abusive jackass. Being dead was his best quality.