Help with frame related questions

[Southy]

Hi.

I was sent this way by a helpful suggestion on another thread. I'm trying to identify a bike I've had for the last ten years. Initially I thought it may not be a Condor as marked but looking at the Conduit website it may be one of their early 90's frames.

It has "Allez" stamped on the rear dropout and the frame number 3290 but there are nothing else stamped on the frame (which seems unusual as Condor bikes seem to have this stamped somewhere).

Someone has suggested this may be a frame that Dave or another builder may have made so any help in identifying the year/model number and frame material would be really appreciated as I would like to get it resprayed and roadworthy again. Have some pictures here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1MOZo3GdcZH8fELZtwOxHUj1dj8FX3Tsx?usp=sharing

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Hi  Southy
All the frames we made for Condor had the Condor number. This was four or five digits, the last two being the year, the first two or three being the sequence fot that year. We used to record every frame we made against our numbering sequence and stamp whatever the (trade) customer wanted on the frrame and forks. As far as I can make out your frame was one of a batch of five delivered to Condor around the end of August 1990. Alas the Condor number was not recorded in the order book and we lost most of the original order forms in a flood just as we were moving out of the Wallsend workshop in 2005. The Allez dropouts were originally made for Holdsworth and I aquired a vast quantity when Holdsworth went down the chute in the late 80s along with all kinds of other bits. I still have some 30 years later !!!
It is made from 531, probably St but not 100% sure. The Condor engraved components were only used on the top custom models such as the "Pro" or the "Baracchi" Later models had  Condor stamped dropouts.

Hope that helps

Dave Yates

[Southy]

Hi Dave,

Thank you ever so much for the detailed explanation, it certainly does help and is nice to know more about what I have.

Cheers

James

[Graemee]

Hello, I hope that this is the appropriate place to put this query. I'm building up a 1983 Vitus 979 and I'm struggling with the downtube shifter bosses. They appear to be standard shimano type but the 'flats' on the end of the boss to orientate the shifter are at 90 degrees to normal e.g they are perpendicular to the downtube rather than parallel. For info, I'm trying to mount DA 7700 shifters and they do fit fine, just not in the correct orientation.

The end result is that the shifters are rotated so that the lever fouls the front wheel in certain gears.

Has anyone ever encountered this before and what are the options for alternative shifters?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Huret or Simplex shifter bosses? An unusual thread dimension and some measurements will answer that.

Campag pattern shifter bosses bonded on 90 degrees out? Other early aluminium frames used bolt-through shifter bosses but most (all?) Al Vitus frames used bonded bosses.

[Graemee]

Hurer or Simplex shifter bosses? An unusual thread dimension and some measurements will answer that.

Campag pattern shifter bosses bonded on 90 degrees out? Other early aluminium frames used bolt-through shifter bosses but most (all?) Al Vitus frames used bonded bosses.

The standard Shimano bolt threads into the boss without any issue so I assume standard M5 threading. The only images of Huret / Simplex bosses I can find show a cylindrical boss without flanges. I have flanges ( ) its just that they are in the wrong orientation.

Your Campag idea might be right...

[Bicycle Repair Man]

I have a variety of odd lever bosses in various tins and pots in the workshop. I have a vague reccolection of something like you need. I will have a dig and see what l have

[Nick H.]

Hello, I hope that this is the appropriate place to put this query. I'm building up a 1983 Vitus 979 and I'm struggling with the downtube shifter bosses. They appear to be standard shimano type but the 'flats' on the end of the boss to orientate the shifter are at 90 degrees to normal e.g they are perpendicular to the downtube rather than parallel. For info, I'm trying to mount DA 7700 shifters and they do fit fine, just not in the correct orientation.

The end result is that the shifters are rotated so that the lever fouls the front wheel in certain gears.

Has anyone ever encountered this before and what are the options for alternative shifters?

Are they like these? https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1154220-odd-downtube-shifter-bosses-orientation.html

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Right, I have had a dig around in the workshop and come up with 2 alternatives. Alas I have forgotten how to post photos, can anybody help, Im sure the info is here somewherebut my IT skills seem to be slipping away😯

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

I use this site to host pics for uploading from my device:

https://imgbb.com/upload

[Bicycle Repair Man]

[https://ibb.co/vQ2pzKW]
Thanks Asterix
Lets try this, two possibilities, the first is for use on an alloy frame with a hole drilled through the down tube.
The length of studding holds them in place and the flats can be oriented how you want.
The second is two steel lever bosses with the radius re formed at 90 deg. If either are any use let me know

Dave Yates

[philip]

[https://ibb.co/vQ2pzKW]

Nearly. You have some extra '[' and ']' around the url, you should remove those: https://ibb.co/vQ2pzKW or better yet, switch to the embedded image, i.e. the BBCode variant of the 'Embed Codes' on the image page

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Thanks again Asterix, the older I get the less I know 😁😁

[robgul]

I have a Giant Defy in the workshop - don't know how old it is but has a cartridge BB (the strange one that extracts from the non-drive side) and 9 speed Sora etc.  Frame is Aluxx 6000 series fork looks like a hybrid aluminium/carbon model.

Now that I've got the amazing amount of crud off it and dropped out the front fork I found corrosion/paint bubbling and wear on the back of the fork crown and about 5cm down each fork leg.




The fork appears pretty sound and there's no obvious damage anywhere else on the frame.

Thoughts please?

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Hi robgul
Get the paint off and examine what the surface looks like underneath. If there is just surface corrosion  on the alloy then clean and re paint. If the fork is carbon bonded onto the alloy examine the joint between the alloy component and the carbon. If there is the least suspicion of any corrosion at the joint then ditch the forks sharpish. Disaster waiting to happen.

Dave Yates

[robgul]

Hi robgul
Get the paint off and examine what the surface looks like underneath. If there is just surface corrosion  on the alloy then clean and re paint. If the fork is carbon bonded onto the alloy examine the joint between the alloy component and the carbon. If there is the least suspicion of any corrosion at the joint then ditch the forks sharpish. Disaster waiting to happen.

Dave Yates

Thanks - I've had a dig around and the corrosion is quite widespread and pretty flakey - looks like new fork time.   I've sent an enquiry to Giant's local dealer with the frame # etc - they, not surprisingly said it's had it and they're getting a price for a replacement - shudders at likely price!

The rest of the bike is old but seems OK - any suggestions on a cheaper option on a replacement fork please?

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Sorry, totally out of touch with current carbon replacement fork market. I either make steel forks or tell the customer to source their own carbon forks and I build the frame around the supplied item.

Dave Yates

[robgul]

Sorry, totally out of touch with current carbon replacement fork market. I either make steel forks or tell the customer to source their own carbon forks and I build the frame around the supplied item.

Dave Yates

Thanks - a bit more digging around and it looks like Giant is pretty much proprietary as far as forks are concerned - waiting for a cost from them.

[Ashaman42]

So I know that putting disc brakes on a fork not designed for it is not a good idea, not that I'd trust a clamp on adapter anyway. But putting a disc fork and brake on a frame that wasn't designed for it is ok right? The bike in question is a Dahon Glide folder like so:



The original fork was replaced with a schwinn 24" fork so I could fit a front hub motor (the standard fork being only 74mm OLN) with the steerer cut down to fit in the Dahon headset arrangement.

I had plans to find a disc fork later but given the rear rim fell apart on the ride home the other day I'm keen to move rather faster than I was and get away from using rim brakes on the front.

Of course I can't seem to find many rigid 24" disc forks but the Surly Disc Trucker fork (https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-forks-c6/rigid-forks-c51/surly-disc-trucker-fork-p627) claims to have a 376mm axle to crown length which is pretty similar (it's somewhere in the 370-380 mm ballpark) to what I get when trying to measure the current fork in situ (axle to crown is from the top of the crown/bottom of the headtube rather than the base of the crown right?)

That fork is £130 though - I did find these other forks (https://bankruptbikeparts.co.uk/collections/forks/products/26-mtb-fork-v-disc-mount-1-1-8steerer-28-6mm-260mm-90mm-threaded-steerer-blk) which are £25. So I guess my other question is just how much difference a 25/30mm increase in A2C is likely to make? It's not like it's a wonderfully great handling bike already...

[sojournermike]

Sorry, totally out of touch with current carbon replacement fork market. I either make steel forks or tell the customer to source their own carbon forks and I build the frame around the supplied item.

Dave Yates

Thanks - a bit more digging around and it looks like Giant is pretty much proprietary as far as forks are concerned - waiting for a cost from them.

Seem unlikely, though not impossible, that it’s not a fairly standard headset - with an Ali steerer probably 1 1/8? So if you can work out the axle to crown then you should be able to find something suitable in full carbon. Are the brakes short or mid drop?

Edited to add: 1 1/8 carbon in short drop are available from Columbus (Futura SL) expensive or Chinese sellers on the bay. You can probably find a mid drop fork too, though you might need to contact someone like ADK in Taiwan…

[robgul]

Sorry, totally out of touch with current carbon replacement fork market. I either make steel forks or tell the customer to source their own carbon forks and I build the frame around the supplied item.

Dave Yates

Thanks - a bit more digging around and it looks like Giant is pretty much proprietary as far as forks are concerned - waiting for a cost from them.

Seem unlikely, though not impossible, that it’s not a fairly standard headset - with an Ali steerer probably 1 1/8? So if you can work out the axle to crown then you should be able to find something suitable in full carbon. Are the brakes short or mid drop?

Edited to add: 1 1/8 carbon in short drop are available from Columbus (Futura SL) expensive or Chinese sellers on the bay. You can probably find a mid drop fork too, though you might need to contact someone like ADK in Taiwan…

Giant dealer has come back and said the fork that matches the frame number is out of stock and no date for availability.  They say they MAY have something that will work at the shop - need to take the frame/bearings etc to find out - later in the week.   

Cost is around £180 for the fork which probably makes it a "value judgment" for the owner . . not sure how olf the bike is - other than the forks it's mechanically sound but looks very tired.

[Johnsabi]

Came across this Gillott badged frame recently. It's not a Gillott but looks like a blend of my two Dave Yates built frames. Is this one of yours? 531C by guzzijohn, on Flickr A S GILLOTT by guzzijohn, on Flickr 158 by guzzijohn, on Flickr

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Hi Johnsabi
Not one of ours I'm afraid. The number is wrong, 58 I would guess is the seat tube length. Probably from centre of BB to centre line of TT measured along seat tube. The components appear to be the standard set of bits that were available from The Holdsworthy Company who were the distributors  for Reynolds tubes, Prugnat lugs, etc. There were thousands of frames built in the 80's with these components and hence all look similar.
The  frames built at M Steel Cycles were all numbered in a direct numerical sequence starting at no. 1 which was the first frame I ever made in 1976. When I moved to Lincolnshire in 2005 the numbers are prefixed with DY then the year then the sequential number of the frames built that year eg DY1821.

[Johnsabi]

Thanks for the info Dave. I have one of your frames, number MS337, would that be late 70's?

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Alas pages are missing from the first record book which starts at 395 in 1983 so I would guess yours is around early 82