Sky - gaming the system?

[Exit Stage Left]

Salary caps have been suggested by the UCI president and Contador, among others. Froome's response has been that such as policy would be 'tantamount to communism'.

I don't see how a cap on team expenditure could be effective, given the links between some teams and national development schemes. Froome's reference to 'communism' is ironic, given the way that various nations have adopted the sports science of the former East Germany, utilising lottery and corporate money.

The public's attitude to cycling has been conditioned by success. Constant knocking of Sky undermines the popularity of cycling events on the road.

[Hot Flatus]

Any evidence for this?

[Beardy]

Did you see how wafer-thin he looked though?  Properly ill-looking thin.

They're not called racing snakes for nothing

[Exit Stage Left]

Any evidence for this?

Prior to the 'Fancy Bears' revelations. Bradley Wiggins's ride on the A63 TT course was getting lots of positive coverage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbP-kvNwYsc

That's the course they want to ban TTs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/07/cyclists-face-ban-from-a63-near-hull-after-accidents

The more we do down the public's heroes, the more we diminish support for road cycling. That's probably not the main intention of the Russian hackers, just a by-product.

[Hot Flatus]

So that's a 'no' then.

Interesting 'victim-blaming' approach, however. As if the fans invented the lies about no TUEs, and the Jiffybag scandal. As if the fans made up the UKAD statement that they couldn't pursue their investigation into Team Sky because Brailsford and co were obstructive and evasive at every turn. Of course the DCMS put Team Sky in the dock and televised it....quite naturally people then talked about it.

The attitude of fans is a by-product of events not The cause of the events.

[Exit Stage Left]

Carry on. Sky represents the ideal idealogical villain for hanging all manner of conspiracy theories from. The Russians have pushed the right buttons for the controversy to run and run.

It's amusing to watch, assuming that you've got no investment in the status of cycling in the UK. I'm shifting my interest back to conservation management anyway, so anything that pushes me in that direction is welcome.

[Hot Flatus]

I presume by that you mean the parent corporation?

I've seen nothing to indicate that the DCMS nor UKAD were motivated by anti-Murdoch ideology. Rather that the investigations were triggered by events. Nor have I seen anything from DCMS nor UKAD decrying accusations of illicit behaviour by Team Sky as being 'conspiracy theories'.

Quite the opposite in fact. UKAD's and DCMS remarks point squarely as Team Sky as being both unethical and opaque. The very opposite of the transparency and whiter-than-white approach they claimed to take. The chair of the DCMS stated that Wiggins reputation is "in tatters" as a result of revelations of what actually went on at Team Sky.  The reaction of people to these events is understandable, but it isn't the cause of the events. Your attempt to claim the reaction of disillusioned fans is responsible for a purported but unproven decline in interest in cycling in the UK is both snide and dishonest.


Appointing a team doctor who is subsequently revealed as having run a team-wide doping programme at his former team is bound to lead to questions, especially when his appointment coincides with a remarkable turnaround in Team Sky's fortunes on the road.

[Exit Stage Left]

My interest is largely in the 'natural history' of cycling's ecology. There's a relevant quote.

Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum.
And the great fleas themselves, in turn, have greater fleas to go on;
While these again have greater still, and greater still, and so on.

We're all somewhere along that continuum, if only one of those annoying droning insects without much of a bite.

[Hot Flatus]

What is the relevance of this quote to the events surrounding Team Sky, the revelations over their abuse of Cortisone highlighted by the DCMS?

Your posts veer towards personal attack aimed at shutting down discussion. The internet was awash with mouthholes like you trying to do exactly the same during the Armstrong era, with exactly the same specious arguments and personalisation of issues.

[Exit Stage Left]

What is the relevance of this quote to the events surrounding Team Sky, the revelations over their abuse of Cortisone highlighted by the DCMS?

Your posts veer towards personal attack aimed at shutting down discussion. The internet was awash with mouthholes like you trying to do exactly the same during the Armstrong era, with exactly the same specious arguments and personalisation of issues.

I'm just getting a high-pitched buzzing noise, while Froome is riding the Tour, and Wiggins is still the 2012 winner.

[Hot Flatus]

You should see a doctor about that buzzing noise in your head.

[Exit Stage Left]

You should see a doctor about that buzzing noise in your head.

You should adjust your grip on reality.

[Hot Flatus]

If you don't like discussions about Sky Doping, perhaps you shouldn't spend so much time on a thread about Sky Doping. As it is, your only contribution is to attempt to drag it down to the level of nasty personal attack.

Know that I'm looking down on you. Laughing.

[Beardy]

You should see a doctor about that buzzing noise in your head.

Very little point in seeing a doctor about a buzzing noise I your head. there is very little anyone can do for tinnitus unfortunately.

[Exit Stage Left]

If you don't like discussions about Sky Doping, perhaps you shouldn't spend so much time on a thread about Sky Doping. As it is, your only contribution is to attempt to drag it down to the level of nasty personal attack.

Know that I'm looking down on you. Laughing.

Any cursory reading will show where the personal attacks are coming from. That reflects comprehension skills.

[joy of essex]

To move things on

Have you seen Brailsford's views on the UCI president . He's  not winning any
 friends .

[Hot Flatus]

I think it tells you something about Sky's standing in the higher echelons of the UCI.

Probably things aren't the same since old Uncle Brian was unseated.

Have a read of this:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-brailsford-is-forgetting-the-jiffy-bag-and-should-be-humble/

[mattc]

Any evidence for this?

Prior to the 'Fancy Bears' revelations. Bradley Wiggins's ride on the A63 TT course was getting lots of positive coverage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbP-kvNwYsc

That's the course they want to ban TTs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/07/cyclists-face-ban-from-a63-near-hull-after-accidents

The more we do down the public's heroes, the more we diminish support for road cycling. That's probably not the main intention of the Russian hackers, just a by-product.

It's total speculation that the people cheering in the first video are the people that campaigned for the ban. I would say it's highly unlikely (unless there is further evidence in your links - which I haven't read!)

I would speculate that a group of people support bike racing - that group were on great form for Wiggins' race.
Another group are selfish motorists who always want bikes out of their way.

[DuncanM]

Nobody was "campaigning" for a ban.  It was Highways England and the Police who put it forward - the elected councils were essentially indifferent. To conflate public attitudes to drug taking in pro cycling with roads authorities trying to clear cyclists off "their" roads is pushing the point IMO.

[Exit Stage Left]

We got an extreme version of 'Wiggomania' around here, as he lives and trains locally. So anything which dents his prestige leaves more space on the road. Froome not so much, I associate him with City Boys on Colnagos.

[Hot Flatus]

Pinarellos, but never mind.

[Exit Stage Left]

Pinarellos are for dentists.

[Hot Flatus]

...and Froome/Team Sky.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I've got one as a pub bike. It's my Pintarello.

[Exit Stage Left]

I've got one as a pub bike. It's my Pintarello.

I've got one of the Scandium/Carbon frames from the late 90s, as ridden by Jan Ullrich. It featured in a short film I did about volunteers and the LEL in 2013. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4Y2fx3rtU

That was the high point of post 'Gamesmakers' voluntarism, inspired by the success of Wiggins, Farah et al. It was inevitable that there would be a backlash against Sir Brad and Sir Dave at some point. It's not as marked as the backlash against Riis, Ullrich and Deutsche Telecom, but that was more justified.

I listened to a US time-trialling podcast about Michael Broadwith's End to End record, and how it reflected a purer type of cycling than the Pro scene. The 'dot-watching' sub-culture reflects that, but it strikes me that fatalities have had an impact there.

There's plenty to question in Sky's approach, especially the disparity in the resources they employ. But they were effective in garnering more interest in cycle sport. The pinnacle in naive enthusiasm is an expensive Pinarello. But other brands have always had more cachet, mainly Colnago. I'd certainly rather have one than a Pinarello if I was into the 'retro' scene, but I've got a Raleigh Record Ace that would do for that.

There comes a point where the negative impact of doing down Sky outweighs their peccadilloes. For me, that was passed when Wiggins and Froome were cleared by WADA.