Author Topic: Sky - gaming the system? (Read 190362 times)

hubner · « **Reply #1500 on:** 12 March, 2021, 12:11:42 pm »

Freeman should have been struck off just for not knowing testosterone is used in doping.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #1501 on:** 12 March, 2021, 01:12:45 pm »

It's a ludicrous claim he made

So now Freeman faces a UKAD hearing too.

Wonder if we will get to discover which for athlete(s) the product was intended.

trekker12 · « **Reply #1502 on:** 12 March, 2021, 01:45:56 pm »

Freeman is apparently diagnosed with bipolar disorder hence the duplicity. Not that I am trying to defend him particularly but if he has a serious condition none of this will have helped that condition and would explain some of the behaviour.

The question remains if he ordered the testogel on his own or if it was an instruction from elsewhere in the team. If it came from within the team and they have hung him out to dry then that is a real tragedy.

citoyen · « **Reply #1503 on:** 12 March, 2021, 01:46:15 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 12 March, 2021, 10:52:20 am

Does this taint the whole Brailsford operation?

Nah, lone wolf, innit. Nothing to do with Sir Dave. Absolutely not. No way.

rafletcher · « **Reply #1504 on:** 12 March, 2021, 02:10:14 pm »

Quote from: trekker12 on 12 March, 2021, 01:45:56 pm

Freeman is apparently diagnosed with bipolar disorder hence the duplicity. Not that I am trying to defend him particularly but if he has a serious condition none of this will have helped that condition and would explain some of the behaviour.

The question remains if he ordered the testogel on his own or if it was an instruction from elsewhere in the team. If it came from within the team and they have hung him out to dry then that is a real tragedy.

My wife’s bipolar. Doesn’t make her prone to lying through her teeth.

hubner · « **Reply #1505 on:** 12 March, 2021, 02:17:43 pm »

Can anyone see Sir Bradley, Sir Dave, Sir Chris, xx MBE, xx OBE go down for doping? Not unless someone confesses.

The UCI needs hacking again, every TUE given out needs to be made public.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #1506 on:** 12 March, 2021, 03:08:38 pm »

This isn't TUE bad. This is worse.

The Family Cyclist · « **Reply #1507 on:** 12 March, 2021, 03:20:52 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 12 March, 2021, 10:52:20 am

Does this taint the whole Brailsford operation?

Yes.

I've always been pretty much on the supporting sky side and could let some of the issues slide but I think with this on the balance of probability I wouldn't trust their achievements any more and am losing interest in Pro cycling generally as hard to believe only one team was at it although one team was particularly dominant

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #1508 on:** 12 March, 2021, 03:49:45 pm »

It was always obviously nonsense.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #1509 on:** 12 March, 2021, 06:00:22 pm »

I'm hoping Andy Gates will be cooking up Dr Freeman's Ineos Beans for the 2022 Dun Run.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #1510 on:** 12 March, 2021, 06:03:54 pm »

Ah yes. Astana beans, 2007 Dunrun, wasn't it. I can't remember what he put in them. Ephedrine and caffeine IIRC. Not sure you could easily source Eph these days, but 2007 was in the early years of Chinese research chems easily purchased on the Internet

Such a pity that Sam was such an arsehole, and deleted several years of amazing posts.

edited to add details I remembered

Mr Larrington · « **Reply #1511 on:** 12 March, 2021, 06:06:58 pm »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 12 March, 2021, 06:03:54 pm

Ah yes. Astana beans, wasn't it. I can't remember what he put in them.

Such a pity that Sam was such an arsehole, and deleted several years of amazing posts.

Dr Ferrari's Astana Beans. From memory there was chocolate, caffeine, pseudo-ephedrine and possibly other mind-altering chemicals.

ppg · « **Reply #1512 on:** 12 March, 2021, 07:06:38 pm »

David Walsh on Sky News just now, not mincing his words.

rafletcher · « **Reply #1513 on:** 12 March, 2021, 07:30:39 pm »

Quote from: ppg on 12 March, 2021, 07:06:38 pm

David Walsh on Sky News just now, not mincing his words.

Oh, the irony.

sojournermike · « **Reply #1514 on:** 13 March, 2021, 11:33:34 am »

Quote from: ppg on 12 March, 2021, 07:06:38 pm

David Walsh on Sky News just now, not mincing his words.

I’m sure that he will it as though he was always suspicious and that he actually brought them down. He and Matthew Syed should be disgraced for the credibility they have tried to offer this outfit. The belief runs deep - I’ve not forgotten a business meeting I had with a (very very right wing conservative) CHief Exec who told us about visiting the GB team in Rio and how the cyclists marginal gains ran through everything they were doing. I had been warned by a colleague that he was opinionated and relished an argument, so managed to hold my tongue, but I do wonder how the true believers feel now.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #1515 on:** 13 March, 2021, 11:41:47 am »

If it is anything like the rest of the right-wing fuckwads' output it will be that all the Sky sceptics will be 'delighted to have an opportunity to denigrate our country yet again', or some such other stupidity.

Would be nice if we had an opportunity to celebrate a genuine success that wasn't founded in cheating and underpinned by exceptionalist mythology.

The rest of the world knew Sky was cheating heavily, so their opinion has just been validated. Only in this mental shit hole of a backward nation was it a matter of misplaced patriotism and nationalistic bullshit.

Mr Larrington · « **Reply #1516 on:** 13 March, 2021, 01:08:32 pm »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 13 March, 2021, 11:41:47 am

Would be nice if we had an opportunity to celebrate a genuine success that wasn't founded in cheating and underpinned by exceptionalist mythology.

Step into this handy police box; we're going back to the 1990s to cheer on G Obree and Nice C Boardman

Beardy · « **Reply #1517 on:** 13 March, 2021, 01:56:32 pm »

Quote from: Mr Larrington on 13 March, 2021, 01:08:32 pm

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 13 March, 2021, 11:41:47 am

Would be nice if we had an opportunity to celebrate a genuine success that wasn't founded in cheating and underpinned by exceptionalist mythology.

Step into this handy police box; we're going back to the 1990s to cheer on G Obree and Nice C Boardman

But that Obree chap was a mechanical doper. It’s well known that he used washing machine parts in the construction of his rule breaking bicycle.

Mr Larrington · « **Reply #1518 on:** 13 March, 2021, 02:06:38 pm »

I am reliably* informed that Mr Obree's main form of doping comes in the guise of tinned pilchards in tomato sauce.

* by his manager, who had overdosed on my grate frend Al's bootleg whiskey.

sojournermike · « **Reply #1519 on:** 13 March, 2021, 04:34:34 pm »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 13 March, 2021, 11:41:47 am

If it is anything like the rest of the right-wing fuckwads' output it will be that all the Sky sceptics will be 'delighted to have an opportunity to denigrate our country yet again', or some such other stupidity.

Would be nice if we had an opportunity to celebrate a genuine success that wasn't founded in cheating and underpinned by exceptionalist mythology.

The rest of the world knew Sky was cheating heavily, so their opinion has just been validated. Only in this mental shit hole of a backward nation was it a matter of misplaced patriotism and nationalistic bullshit.

Agree wholeheartedly. Some strange sort of nationalism. I’ve thought for too many years that UK sport is more 80s East German than anything else.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #1520 on:** 13 March, 2021, 04:37:28 pm »

Marginal gains turned out to be lots of cortisone injections and some testosterone.

(at the very least)

Peter · « **Reply #1521 on:** 13 March, 2021, 04:40:05 pm »

Probably inevitable when funding (and therefore salaries) has been linked specifically to medal wins in so many sports, I think.

sg37409 · « **Reply #1522 on:** 15 March, 2021, 10:12:34 pm »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/56400388

"Sir Bradley Wiggins wants a new inquiry into why banned testosterone was ordered in 2011 by ex-British Cycling and Team Sky doctor Richard Freeman."

I actually lol'd when I read this.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #1523 on:** 15 March, 2021, 10:20:23 pm »

^was my reaction too

TimC · « **Reply #1524 on:** 15 March, 2021, 10:32:41 pm »

Quote from: sg37409 on 15 March, 2021, 10:12:34 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/56400388

"Sir Bradley Wiggins wants a new inquiry into why banned testosterone was ordered in 2011 by ex-British Cycling and Team Sky doctor Richard Freeman."

I actually lol'd when I read this.

Did you? Is because that's because you have inside information as to what happened, and who intended to do what, or because you've assumed you can make a judgement without that information? If it's the former, I look forward to hearing your deposition to the inquiry. If it's the latter, I'm sorry, but I prefer to wait until there is conclusive evidence one way or the other, assessed and weighed by those qualified to judge, and prepared to set their judgement in front of the public.

Don't get me wrong; I have no information either way and I'm in no position to judge. But I am aware how circumstantial 'evidence', when assessed by the public, is often nothing of the sort and is simply a vehicle for people's prejudice. I have no idea whether Bradley Wiggins is guilty of anything illegal, but I'm quite sure that if I was in his position, and I was not guilty of any wrongdoing, I'd want all the evidence brought out, so I don't 'LOL' at his statement.

At the end of the day none of this will make a damn bit of difference to me, but I worry that good people will be brought down simply because it's 'ok' to suggest that everyone in pro cycling is guilty by association - and those doing the assuming and declaring guilt are not at any reputational risk while they're doing their armchair quarterbacking.

As per the law, I will assume innocence until guilt is proven. And I won't claim 'I told you so' whichever way it goes.