Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Food & Drink => Topic started by: Andrew Br on 05 October, 2009, 04:34:15 pm
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As you may know we've just been to Seattle/Hood River/Portland where there are lots and lots of microbreweries making a wide range of different styles of beer.
Some of these include what are described as "English style bitters".
The thing is, they don't taste like any British beers that I know (and like). They nearly always taste too bitter and feel rather "thin" in the mouth. I put this to the test last night by having a couple of pints in my local- The Marble in Chorlton- and I had a pint of Ginger Marble. It was interesting to compare ;). Basically the Ginger was creamier and smoother. I've no doubt I would have thought the same if I'd tried any of the other British beers that I like (including but not limited to London Pride, Landlord, Pedigree, Adnams, Copper Dragon, Black Sheep).
Even the US bitters that were served with nitrogen weren't anything like the British stuff.
Any ideas why that might be ?
I should add that I liked many of the beers that we tried and that the German style wheat beers tasted pretty much like the beers from Germany.
ET change the thread title from "English" to "British". We're all in this together ;)
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There's a lot of variation amongst English beers - what you describe with the "too bitter and thin" soundls like a heavily hopped light ale (see Shepherd Neame). Personally, I like milds and stouts, which are creamier and sweeter, and porters which are rich and strong.
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We generally do like our beers hoppier than most countries. I've recently discovered Marston's Old Empire - now that is hopped!!!
The only comparison I can make with your experience is Guinness Foreign Export. It's 7.5% ABV in England and a meaty & mighty brew. A similar (I thought identical) beer is available in Belgium. However, when I did a side-by-side comparison, the English version is MUCH more hopped than the Belgian - and better for it IMHO.
Maybe the type of hop they use in the US is stronger in taste than the ones you're used to?
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We generally do like our beers hoppier than most countries.
A lot of European countries don't use hops at all in their beer! They use other preservatives, such as cloves and orange peel. Makes for an interesting drink (and an even more interesting conversation when you're trying to discuss the finer points of brewing in a mediaeval festival in Narbonne with a man who doesn't speak English, and your French is a bit ropey, and you've all had a few pints as well).
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Try something Kentish in Kent. Tends to taste thin and very bitter if your used to Midlands or Northern beers.
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Try something Kentish in Kent. Tends to taste thin and very bitter if your used to Midlands or Northern beers.
I've noticed that most of the bitters that I like are brewed in the Midlands or North of England (London Pride is the exception from my list). I guess that's what is more readily available here (and probably in the best condition if it hasn't travelled too far).
Another thought- I generally don't like bottles of any of my favourites, only draught.
There's a lot of variation amongst English beers - what you describe with the "too bitter and thin" sounds like a heavily hopped light ale (see Shepherd Neame).
You're right- I didn't like any of the beers described as "ales". I'm sure that I've had Shepherd Neame and liked it. I'll seek it out again.
It's the Didsbury beer festival at the end of October so more opportunities for "research". I can cycle there and back along the river ;)
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You will remember to tell us about the cycle – beer – river incident when it eventually happens old chap? Hmmmm?
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I found while I was in Washington state last summer is that the "bitters" and "IPAs" served up by the microbreweries whilst delicious, are served chilled to 4°c and were more like dark lagers rather than English bitter. I even tried drinking a bottled IPA at cellar temperature (13°c) rather than ice cold and it tasted like warm lager. :-\
Bloody nice beer all the same! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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You will remember to tell us about the cycle – beer – river incident when it eventually happens old chap? Hmmmm?
;D ;D
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I've been doing a lot of research into this very subject recently :)
American 'ales' are closer to English Southern Bitterd rather than Northern Bitters.
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Denmark is in the mist of a revival of beers after years of suppression from Carlsberg. Every town now have a brewery and nearly every restaurant has its micro brewery. Even Carlsberg is on the band wagon with their own brand called Carls. They range from chocolate flavor(which I had this weekend) to truly English style ales and bitters. It is a joy to go back to Denmark and enter a supermarket and have a big choice of beers instead of having to choose from two larger's.
I even found this one :)
(http://www.woollypigs.com/uploaded_images/img_0081.jpg)
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I was sampling the Danish microbrews while we were there - but bloody hell are they strong! I'm used to southern beer which tends to be 3.8 - 5.5% but it was difficult to find a microbrew in Denmark any weaker than 6% or so. :o
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Some of these include what are described as "English style bitters".
The thing is, they don't taste like any British beers that I know (and like).
There is a difference.
My current favourites are from Tomos Watkins and Kingstone, neither of which is in England. :-)
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Lately I have been mostly drinking
Gold Label No1 Barley Wine
Marstons Owd Rodger
Fullers Golden Pride
McEwans Champion
Brakspear Triple
Gold Label is a particular favourite. Usually found alongside bum beers (Carlsberg Special Brew, Tennants Super) or the Grandpas favourite, Mackesons (lush, up there with Manns brown ale for low abv treats). It's delicious, up there with Duvel and the like.
Not one of those could be described as thin or hoppy.
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Lately I have been mostly drinking
Gold Label No1 Barley Wine
Marstons Owd Rodger
Fullers Golden Pride
McEwans Champion
Brakspear Triple
Not one of those could be described as thin or hoppy.
I know what you mean DrM, but aren't all of these quite high in alcohol content and therefore also quite sweet ?
It's a personal thing, but I tend not to like beers that are stronger than about 5% (I've even done research on beer in Belgium and they're not to my taste either).
The original reason for the post was to find out if there are technical reasons why foreign beers don't replicate British (point taken Tewdric ;) I'd forgotten about some of the Welsh beers tasted here:- Have you been out today? (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10.3540)).
Any thoughts ?
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If you like beer from cask only, not bottle, and you like northern beer, it might be that you like your beer through a sparkler. It's like a tiny showerhead, and the beer gets pushed through at pressure which froths it up and removes CO2 from the body of it, into the head it creates. It gives the beer a thicker mouthfeel, and sweeter, softer taste.
But also, yes, I think American ales (and American-style - Brew Dog, Meantime and Dark Star are UK breweries that make American-style IPAs, off the top of my head) do have a distinctive metallic-tasting hoppiness that can seem quite harsh when compared with even the hoppier end of UK ales. They use different varieties of hops, I know - I'm not sure if there's much more of a difference in manufacture.
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I think you're right Marna :thumbsup: and I did actually know about the sparkler :-[
I'll be in the pub after football on Wednesday and I might ask them to pour a pint without the sparkler to see what the difference is.
Actually, I might only get a half, just in case ;)
I wonder if there's a marketing opportunity in US pubs here ?
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So, is this beer (http://www.caledonian-brewery.co.uk/ipa_home.html) "English", or "foreign"???
:demon: ;)
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...I even found this one :)
(http://www.woollypigs.com/uploaded_images/img_0081.jpg)
I've gotta photo somewhere of me holding one of those :thumbsup:
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I haven't yet had any English-like bitters (In fact, I bought a can (A can!) of London Pride the other day, in pure surprise that they had it in the shop.
Having said that, the beer here in PNW is absolutely amazing. Hell, even at the Safeco Field (Baseball stadium in Seattle), they had 3 different local beers and not a single national brand piss-lager. (Budweiser, et all). The local version of CAMRA is rapidly expanding and my local pub usually got 10+ different beers on tap, + 4-5 guest beers. (And a large assortment of bottled beers).
My local liquor stores got more types of beer than I've seen anywhere (And I've been to Belgium/Holland a fair bit) and it takes me forever to go beer shopping, because I often refuse to buy the same brand, when there's new and exciting beers to try out.
In addition, I finally got around to trying some of the local wine and it's bloody amazing too. I'm never moving back to London!!.
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If you like beer from cask only, not bottle, and you like northern beer, it might be that you like your beer through a sparkler. It's like a tiny showerhead, and the beer gets pushed through at pressure which froths it up and removes CO2 from the body of it, into the head it creates. It gives the beer a thicker mouthfeel, and sweeter, softer taste.
Every pub from the Midlands up has a sparkler permanently attached to the pumps. Which is wrong if they have a Southern guest beer on of course but is how people expect beer to be served. I remember going to the Tap and Spile at Heathrow Airport and the barman clocked me about 30- paces away (he used to work at the one in York) and by teh time I got to the bar he had whipped out a sparkler and attached it to the Theakstons pump.
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Probably should be in the rant thread but:
Sparklers! :sick:
Ruins the beer and gives the landlord an opportunity to sell you less than a pint.
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But also, yes, I think American ales (and American-style - Brew Dog, Meantime and Dark Star are UK breweries that make American-style IPAs, off the top of my head) do have a distinctive metallic-tasting hoppiness that can seem quite harsh when compared with even the hoppier end of UK ales. They use different varieties of hops, I know - I'm not sure if there's much more of a difference in manufacture.
The northwest, particularly Washington state, is the main hop-growing region of the US and there is lots of innovative experimental research into hop cultivation. That's part of the story.
There's also a competitively macho element to American craft brewing, with breweries trying to outdo each other as to who can make the bitterest beer. I once tried a beer called HopDevil from the Victory brewery (based in Pennsylvania rather than the northwest) which was unpleasantly hoppy even to my hop-loving Kentish palate. But even that is pretty mild compared to some US beers.
Plus, as FB says, they tend to drink their beer colder, which kills the flavour, so they have to make it stronger-tasting to compensate.
But American breweries are making some of the best beers in the world at the moment, and I would dearly love to do a beer tour of the northwest states.
d.
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Probably should be in the rant thread but:
Sparklers! :sick:
Ruins the beer and gives the landlord an opportunity to sell you less than a pint.
I believe CAMRA are anti-sparkler. As a southerner, I rarely encounter such things, so have yet to work out whether or not I approve. :smug:
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Your very lucky then. They really bugger up a pint of Master Brew.
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Try something Kentish in Kent. Tends to taste thin and very bitter if your used to Midlands or Northern beers.
...except oyster stout.
Scrummy! :thumbsup:
Available from the Whitstable Brewery, and Shepherd Neame did an experimental microbrew of it, and gave our local forty pints of which I drank a not inconsiderable number. 8)
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...I even found this one :)
I've gotta photo somewhere of me holding one of those :thumbsup:
I think this (http://www.shoppikebrewing.com/images/product_images/other_views/lg/tandem_tap_OV_12.jpg) is a more impressive find.
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I haven't yet had any English-like bitters. Having said that, the beer here in PNW is absolutely amazing. Hell, even at the Safeco Field (Baseball stadium in Seattle), they had 3 different local beers
In Seattle your big 2 are Hales and Redhook. I found Redhook ok and I really liked Blackhook (their winter brew). Hales used to send people to Gales of Horndean (near Portsmouth) to learn the trade and you can really taste the similarity - or you could last time I had any in 2000.
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Probably should be in the rant thread but:
Sparklers! :sick:
Ruins the beer and gives the landlord an opportunity to sell you less than a pint.
I believe CAMRA are anti-sparkler. As a southerner, I rarely encounter such things, so have yet to work out whether or not I approve. :smug:
No Camra merely suggest that a sparkler should only be used where appropriate. And as to the less than a pint argument round here we tend to get glasses with the pint level marked on the side with room above that for a head. If you served a pint without a decent head on it in Yorkshire it would get sent back,
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This (http://www.harveysonline.co.uk/) is definitely a lovely beer. My Mecca.
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But American breweries are making some of the best beers in the world at the moment, and I would dearly love to do a beer tour of the northwest states
If you do then this map would come in handy. Oregon & Washington Brew Map (http://placemapper.com/maps/brewmap.htm)
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But American breweries are making some of the best beers in the world at the moment, and I would dearly love to do a beer tour of the northwest states
If you do then this map would come in handy. Oregon & Washington Brew Map (http://placemapper.com/maps/brewmap.htm)
:thumbsup:
My sister is going to Portland for Thanksgiving (lucky blighter), so I'll forward that to her.
d.
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My current favourites are from Tomos Watkins and Kingstone, neither of which is in England. :-)
I keep seeing Cwrw Gaeaf in Tescos, it's getting to the time of year when I should try it... Cwrw Hâf & Cwrw Brâf are already favourites.
I like dark beers, and this stuff (http://www.rhymneybreweryltd.com/our_ales/rhymney_dark.php) impressed me.
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I need to switch my summer time larger habit back to bitter as it's autumn now.
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In Seattle your big 2 are Hales and Redhook.
It was Redhook ESB that I tried the room temperature test with.
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So, is this beer (http://www.caledonian-brewery.co.uk/ipa_home.html) "English", or "foreign"???
:demon: ;)
I know, I know :-[
My favourite beers are English and they're the ones that I drink most frequently. I'd forgotten about the Welsh and now the Scots beers that I like.
A pub near me has Caledonian on but they aren't looking after it (and their others- Pedigree, Copper Dragon) properly anymore and it tastes awful :(
It's a shame because it's a great summer beer.
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A pub near me has Caledonian on but they aren't looking after it (and their others- Pedigree, Copper Dragon) properly anymore and it tastes awful
The Sedge Lynn?
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Before I moved to the US I assumed that American beer began and ended with Budweiser. Fortunately that was a happy misconception, and most supermarkets have a range of micro (and macro) brewery products.
Current favourites are:
Samuel Adams Boston Ale
Brooklyn Brown
Redtail Ale
Smutty Nose IPA
Fat Tire
Otter Valley
Sierra Nevada Pale
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A pub near me has Caledonian on but they aren't looking after it (and their others- Pedigree, Copper Dragon) properly anymore and it tastes awful
The Sedge Lynn?
No, The Beech.
I usually walk or cycle past the Sedge Lynn on the way to The Marble ;)
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Before I moved to the US I assumed that American beer began and ended with Budweiser. Fortunately that was a happy misconception, and most supermarkets have a range of micro (and macro) brewery products.
Current favourites are:
Samuel Adams Boston Ale
Brooklyn Brown
Redtail Ale
Smutty Nose IPA
Fat Tire
Otter Valley
Sierra Nevada Pale
I have been to the US. I love at least one off of that list.
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I usually walk or cycle past the Sedge Lynn on the way to The Marble
Of course - apologies :) And the SL is one pub that looks better from the outside than from the in-
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So, is this beer (http://www.caledonian-brewery.co.uk/ipa_home.html) "English", or "foreign"???
:demon: ;)
I know, I know :-[
My favourite beers are English and they're the ones that I drink most frequently. I'd forgotten about the Welsh and now the Scots beers that I like.
A pub near me has Caledonian on but they aren't looking after it (and their others- Pedigree, Copper Dragon) properly anymore and it tastes awful :(
It's a shame because it's a great summer beer.
Actually, there are a few good beers around in Scotland - changed days from the 80s:
http://www.williamsbrosbrew.com/
Harviestoun (http://www.harviestoun.com/)
produce some particular favourites.
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Shame that the only Harviestoun beer I can get this far south is Bitter & Twisted, because Old Engine Oil sounds like I'd like it a lot. I'm actually salivating at the thought of Ola Dubh...
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there are a few good beers around in Scotland
Brew Dog, Isle of Arran Brewery and Islay Brewery all do good bottled beers
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No Camra merely suggest that a sparkler should only be used where appropriate.
CAMRA includes a symbol in the Good Beer Guide which shows whether or not a beer should be served through a tight sparkler. This information comes from the brewery.
Otherwise CAMRA is opposed to the increasing tendency to serve southern-brewed beers through a tight sparkler as it changes the beer's character away from that that the brewer intended.
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there are a few good beers around in Scotland
Brew Dog, Isle of Arran Brewery and Islay Brewery all do good bottled beers
As do Isle of Skye (Skyelight and Porridge Oat are faves), Cairngorm (Tradewinds), Orkney and Innis & Gunn. As RJ says William Bros do some fine fine beers. The 7 Giraffes is apparently the same stuff as Good Times, but they had an exclusive deal with one of the supermarkets for whichever of them, so just made the same stuff with a different name for the independent stores (two cracking little independent beer (and wine) shops near me).
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I don't think Monteith's Summer Ale from NZ has had a shout yet - lovely stuff, just don't chill it too much, you kill the spice.
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Mmmmmm Monteiths Summer...... that went down a treat after a hard days touring in sunny Gizzy :P :P :P
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Actually, there are a few good beers around in Scotland - changed days from the 80s:
If you can find any, the beers from the Highland (http://www.highlandbrewingcompany.co.uk/) brewery are probably the best in Scotland at the moment :P
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Whilst we are on beers, FWIW, I've just ordered casks of every real ale that is currently brewed in Hampshire - all 59 of them ;D
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The microbrewing thing has really hit Canada too, I've discovered. Unfortunately, there's not much distribution for microbrewed beers. Kingston, where I live, has its own Welcome to the Brew Pub - The Kingston Brewing Company, Kingston, Ontario, Canada (http://www.kingstonbrewing.ca/), which makes pretty decent beer in several varieties, but if you are ever in Toronto, beerbistro toronto (http://www.beerbistro.com/) has a really good list of Canadian microbrews and some many international beers on draught and in bottles. I can particularly recommend the St Ambroise Oatmeal Stout and the Ephemere Pomme, both from Quebec.
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I keep seeing Cwrw Gaeaf in Tescos, it's getting to the time of year when I should try it... Cwrw Hâf & Cwrw Brâf are already favourites.
It's very nice, as I remember. We always stock up on Tomos Watkins beers when we visit Mrs Nerd's parents in Llanarthne.
We're soon moving to an entirely Greene King dominated town (they bought the local brewery in 1996), so we'll have to find a pub that has well stored guest beers. I recently saw a pump for GK "IPA cold" which confirmed my suspicions about GK - they are the Carling / Carlsberg of "real ale".
Talking of super hopped beers - on holiday I had a Cape Cod IPA, which is probably how an IPA is supposed to be made: strong and hoppy, but it was too hoppy for my palette raised on Thwaites, Timothy Taylor and Moorhouses.
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Whilst we are on beers, FWIW, I've just ordered casks of every real ale that is currently brewed in Hampshire - all 59 of them ;D
That sounds like a good party - can we come ;D
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That sounds like a good party
It sounds like the Hampshire Octoberfest run by North Hants Camra.
d.
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Shame that the only Harviestoun beer I can get this far south is Bitter & Twisted, because Old Engine Oil sounds like I'd like it a lot. I'm actually salivating at the thought of Ola Dubh...
Schiehallion is my pick of that bunch. Plus their seasonal beers ...
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Shame that the only Harviestoun beer I can get this far south is Bitter & Twisted, because Old Engine Oil sounds like I'd like it a lot. I'm actually salivating at the thought of Ola Dubh...
Ola Dubh, Old Engine Oil - nom, nom :P
I once poured a half of OEO for Ken Brooker himself O:-)
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I found a company in Canada after my own heart... the Flying Monkeys brewery, who make this very nice Hoptical Illusion, which as it says, isn't really one thing or another - it's like a heavier, creamy version of pale ale, and it is good.
(http://wolfeislandlife.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/dsc03832.jpg)
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I'd failed to spot this thread until now :)
Interesting comments on thin and bitter beers, given the location of the OP..
Pale and ferociously hoppy (and rather low alcohol) beers were typical of what i drank growing up not far from there. Robinsons and of course Boddingtons when it was a local brewery.
The heaver and creamier beers I always associated with Yorkshire and the South
I can confirm Tewdric's admiration for Kingstone - it's marvelous stuff, and sold in our village shop :)
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I'd failed to spot this thread until now :)
Too busy with your tax returns ? ;)
I've never liked Robinsons but Boddingtons (from Manchester) always seemed rather sweet and smooth compared with the Thwaites bitters that I occasionally drank when I was a teenager in Blackburn.
Actually, apart from Holts and Marble, I don't like many of the Manchester beers: certainly Phoenix and Hydes are too bitter for me while JW Lees is fairly ho hum.
I'm looking forward to a pint of Fullers tomorrow after the FNRTTS :thumbsup:
(Not with breakfast, I'm on an afternoon train ::-))
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I'm looking forward to a pint of Fullers tomorrow after the FNRTTS
At the Euston Arch? :)
Doesn't Marble Manchester Bitter resemble Boddy's in its heyday?
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I'm looking forward to a pint of Fullers tomorrow after the FNRTTS
At the Euston Arch? :)
Doesn't Marble Manchester Bitter resemble Boddy's in its heyday?
Not the Euston Arch but at a pub on Aldwych (can't remember the name) where I can sit at the window and watch my bike. They also do a nice fish and chips.
I don't like any of the Marble beers except Ginger (I'm always disappointed when the Ginger's off).
My memory of the "old" Boddingtons is that it was creamier than Manchester Bitter but I'm thinking back a long time.........................
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What better way to see off a splendid Sunday, or for that matter, any evening, than a lovely pint of Poachers.
Hints of Damson and Liqourice 5.7%, and it's yum, yum, yum until the last drop.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/PoacherBeer.jpg)
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I joined Camra recently and was delighted to get a huge stack of 50p off vouchers - for wetherspoons though which was less great.
I joined because a local pub has opened after going bust, as a specialist real ale bar - loads of kegs with taps etc racked up and a gazillion odd bottled beers and ciders. I thought this is a venture that needs support, plus they do black pudding in batter as a barsnack which gets my vote.
After 4 months I and my beer chum have decided that about 1 in 5 beers we try in there is actually pleasant to drink, enough that you would want to have a second. They have lovely sounding names etc but they taste like something left in the garden for a week. I don't think I am a real ale man - London Pride is quite nice, and Timothy Taylors Landlord is pretty much perfection in a glass I reckon. These are of course looked down upon.
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Reading the first few posts of this thread the question was asked 'why do American beers brewed in the English tradition taste nothing like their English/British counterparts?' From my recent foray into making beer (it's the next big thing folks - you read it here first!), I'd say the Americans choose zingier, more citrusy hops (Amarillo, Citra, Centennial for example) and often use the same hop for bittering and aroma - giving a more refreshing taste, whereas here in the UK we seem to choose a greater variety of different hops at various stages of the boil to impart a more complex hop profile.
Two beers in front of me. One a London Pride clone - malty, and sweet, and although I used a heap of Target, Challenger and East Kent Goldings, it's not particularly hoppy (but that might be down to not using the correct Fullers strain of yeast), and the other an American IPA experiment - I'm getting grapefruit, oranges and melons </Jilly Goolden> - it's almost like a health drink. I'd say the Americans like a younger, fresher tasting beer in general, although they have become far more sophisticated and hungry to learn from and copy the European tradition in recent years.
Tigerrr - London Pride (when brewed by the professionals...) is a pretty darn good pint - and always a safe bet when confronted by an array of beertaps. If you want my idea of the perfect English Ale, then try a Fuller's ESB, although it takes a bit of getting used to as it's quite strong. And Landlord is a lovely pint too. (and Madonna's favourite when she was shacked up with Guy Ritchie!). I reckon I might have a go at making some too.
F*ck me. I've become a beer bore. Sorry
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Nothing wrong in being a beer bore Golders. Worse than that, I think I've become…
… a beer 'ticker'!!
I'm also guilty of not really reading the main post of this thread, and just saw 'beer' ( a bit like Homer Simpson I suppose), but a friend bought me last year 'A 1001 beers to try before you die' book, and d'you know, I think it's doable! Well, I'm giving it a good stab anyway. Some have been bloody excellent, and that includes American brews. Some have been disappointing, and can't understand their inclusion.
There's a shop near me that has a good world selection, but sadly, having found ones that are in-the-bible-book, they prove too expensive. There's one from Scotland I've spotted, might be Old Engine Oil, that costs £10 for a 33cl bottle!!!!! Gawd.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/Beer-book.jpg)
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Some have been bloody excellent, and that includes American brews. Some have been disappointing, and can't understand their inclusion.
When I wrote my book about beer, the publisher gave me a list of beers I had to include, presumably for commercial reasons. There were plenty on the list that I wouldn't have included otherwise. ::-)
(An online review of the book included the comment "This has the feel of a book that was hastily and cheaply put together." Astute. ;) )
d.
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There are numerous contributors to my fine tome Cyters. Were/are you solely the author to your mystery beer book?
What I have found, when purchasing those suggested in the book, is enjoying sharing them with a chum, and having m'dear wife asking our opinions on the taste while she's poised with the book in her lap, and that particular beer's tasting notes.
"Wet horse blanket! Hell the hell do you get wet horse blanket!! I've got the citrus part, and a bit of malt."
"Well that's what it says here."
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There are numerous contributors to my fine tome Cyters. Were/are you solely the author to your mystery beer book?
Originally, yes, I was sole author when it was first published in 2005. But by the time it was in print, I wanted nothing more to do with it - it was a contract job rather than a labour of love, so I just took the money (when the cheapskate publishers eventually coughed up) and washed my hands of it. When they wanted to update it, they got someone else in. It was a one-off fee for the job, so I don't get any royalties, which makes me sick when I think how much they must have made out of selling it around the world (it's been translated into at least a dozen languages that I know of).
The aforementioned review is here (http://www.beerwrangler.com/beers-of-the-world-by-david-kenning/) - I think it's a very fair assessment of the book.
You won't be surprised to learn that it wasn't my idea to include a full page on Fosters. And I can't begin to tell you how hard it was to write a full page worth of positive guff about that abominable piss... :facepalm:
d.
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Nice post Cyters. Made me smile for some reason! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 2 'thumb's up' rating.
I have to say, in the '1001 …' book, the pics are fantastically good, and the beers are displayed in the appropriate glass.
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Most of the pictures were lifted from an Italian part-work, iirc. And some of them looked quite badly out of date even in 2005.
d.
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Just spotted on Amazon that they now have a Look inside edition to view:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/1001-Beers-You-Must-Before/dp/1844036820/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335526984&sr=8-1
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You lot have just made me place an order with Miltons! I can't wait.
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Miltons?
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In here is as good as anywhere, I suppose.
My family and I went out for lunch yesterday, to a local-ish pub. I would normally drink Copper Dragon Golden Pippin (as seen on many a Thursday night pubbe ride). the pub we went to though didn't have Golden Pippin, but had "Freddie Trueman", also by Skipton Brewery. Very nice it was, a bit darker than Golden Pippin, but not too dark. If I had not been driving I would have had 2.
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Miltons?
Milton Brewery in Cambridge. They make my fave beers "Marcus Aurelius" and "Nero".
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Thanks for that Vallers. Looked them up. What a range of beer. Be nice if they had some down in Brighton, but sadly, no.
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I joined Camra recently and was delighted to get a huge stack of 50p off vouchers - for wetherspoons though which was less great.
I joined because a local pub has opened after going bust, as a specialist real ale bar - loads of kegs with taps etc racked up and a gazillion odd bottled beers and ciders. I thought this is a venture that needs support, plus they do black pudding in batter as a barsnack which gets my vote.
After 4 months I and my beer chum have decided that about 1 in 5 beers we try in there is actually pleasant to drink, enough that you would want to have a second. They have lovely sounding names etc but they taste like something left in the garden for a week. I don't think I am a real ale man - London Pride is quite nice, and Timothy Taylors Landlord is pretty much perfection in a glass I reckon. These are of course looked down upon.
If you don't like 'em, don't drink 'em. Ask the barperson what they're like, & if they sound as if you might like 'em, ask for a taste.
As for snobs who look down on Pride & Landlord - well, they're parodied very nicely in some of the Camra guides. Only thing wrong with Landlord, IMO, is that it's often served in poor condition down here, & I love a good pint of Pride.
BTW, my idea of heaven in a glass was the first pint of Brakspears ordinary I had in the old brewery hospitality suite, one Friday evening in the 1990s. I've never tasted better. Definitely a beer meant to be drunk fresh.
Among the other pints (or near pints) remembered with particular fondness was a half-litre of Pilsner Urquell drunk in a crowded, steamy (wet outside), horribly ugly concrete boozer* behind the brewery museum in the middle of Plzen. Delicious! The next Plzen pub I tried looked far more appealing, but the beer was in far worse condition. And then there was my first taste of Ise Kadoya Sinto beer, in the Izakaya Toramaru, in the street where Mrs B's grandparents then lived. According to the brewery website it's a local (very local - the brewery's in the same town, maybe 2 km away) variation on an American pale ale. Dunno about that, but reading the label after tasting it I found it was champion beer of Japan at the Great Japan Beer Festival the previous year, & IMO a good choice. Next time I'm over there, I will drink it again.
The pint of White Horse bitter I had at the Black Horse on Sunday was pleasant. A decent ordinary bitter.
*Given a cosmetic makeover since 1994.
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Thank you for that Bledders. Just how much a beer's taste is enhanced by the situation in which it's drunk; time of day, pub, friends, time of year, would be difficult to quantify, but it plays its part.
Ahhhhhhhhhh… beer.
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I echo the two posts above. Even a Wetherspoons will allow you to sample their wares, at least the two I know do, anyway. Any pub selling itself as a real ale bar should offer samples too. They should also offer brief tasting notes so you know in advance what sort of beer to expect, and to decide against some if they're not to your taste. You'll quickly discover which types of beer suit your palate. I like dark, sweet porters in the winter and malty, lighter beers in the summer, for example.
Riggers has it spot on. One of my favourite beers is Batham's Bitter from the Black Country. It took a good while, and no little trouble to reach their pubs from where I lived, but that only built up the suspense. On reaching the Bull and Bladder/The Vine, it was always busy and so we had to wait for our pints, but it was worth it, it really is nectar. A good pint of Timothy Taylor's is also excellent beer and it usually reaches us here in good nick.
My local sells lots of real ales and is a jovial place to be. Mordue's Coffee Porter was one I tried there that really hit the spot, although many of their ales are hopped to buggery, which is not to my taste. The place is doing well, so they are clearly doing summat right even though I personally don't like everything they sell.
The thing with beer is that even if you don't like the taste of a particular pint, you've still had the alcohol delivered to your system, so move on to the next one... Hic!
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With reference to this:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/Beer-book.jpg)
Guess what I've been buying at lunchtime? These:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/NiceBeer.jpg)
And they're in the book! Hurrah!
Thornbridge Jaipur 5.9%
Thornbridge Kipling 5.2%
Piraat 10.5% (Belgium) Gonna be lively
Nils Oscar (Sweden) Rökporter 5.9%
Nils Oscar Imperial Stout 7%
Corsendonk Agnus Triple (Belgium) 7.5%
happy happy joy joy.
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Looks like a very nice selection!
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Thornbridge Kipling - it's the Centennial hops, I think. Too much passionfruit. The Jaipur, however, is lovely.
Maybe save the Piraat until last if you want to be able to appreciate the others to their fullest, hmm?
d.
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I greatly prefer the Belgian beers in general. In my view they are brewed for a market where sipping an excellent product is the norm, whereas in the UK most drinkers look for something that they can down several pints of at a sitting.
At present I have at my disposal - Piraat (as mentioned), Trappistes de Rochefort (11.3%), St Bernardus Abt 12 (10%), Delirium Nocturnum (8.5%), Gulden Draak (10.5%), and some Chimay Blue in case any others run out.
I'm also very fond of the John Martin's beers (mainly, I think, brewed in Scotland, but to the Belgian taste and strength) - Gordon's Special Gold and Gordon's Christmas. John Martin, by the way, commissions the Belgian Guiness mentioned earlier in the trhread, and it comes in at 8%ish (and in my view, is superior to any other Guiness).
The "holy grail" is, of course, Westvleteren, but as it's only available by persoanl atendance at St Sixtus Abbey near Poperinge, and by appointment - and then only a couple of cases can be bought, it's about as obtainable as hens' teeth.
But - juts to show that I'm not against UK brews totally, I do like Ma Pardoes Ruby Mild, and I'll tolerate a good Reverent James if it's kept well.
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A pub near me has Caledonian on but they aren't looking after it (and their others- Pedigree, Copper Dragon) properly anymore and it tastes awful
The Sedge Lynn?
No, The Beech.
I usually walk or cycle past the Sedge Lynn on the way to The Marble ;)
To bring this up to date for the Chorlton(CH)ites, the Beech has changed hands and the new people really look after their beer.
I should try some of the others but I can't get past their TT Landlord it's so good.
The Sedge Lynn has good beer on from time to time but I find the smell inside really nauseating.
I don't know whether it's the pub or the clients.
Also, FWIW, Bar has become my "local" because the bike parking is better and it's easier to get a seat.
Marble put some very nice planters in the outside area but, unfortunately, they obscure the bikes.
Bar has a long railing outside and big windows so it's possible to drink a beer and see the bikes.
Having said that, space was at a premium last night there were so many locked up :thumbsup:
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I'm also very fond of the John Martin's beers (mainly, I think, brewed in Scotland, but to the Belgian taste and strength) - Gordon's Special Gold and Gordon's Christmas. John Martin, by the way, commissions the Belgian Guiness mentioned earlier in the trhread, and it comes in at 8%ish (and in my view, is superior to any other Guiness).
The "holy grail" is, of course, Westvleteren, but as it's only available by persoanl atendance at St Sixtus Abbey near Poperinge, and by appointment - and then only a couple of cases can be bought, it's about as obtainable as hens' teeth.
But - juts to show that I'm not against UK brews totally, I do like Ma Pardoes Ruby Mild, and I'll tolerate a good Reverent James if it's kept well.
Bugger! I was in Poperinge a month ago and missed a chance. I found the Belgian Guinness didn't stand up well to the "normal" stuff, but it's better than the Nigerian stuff my local Tescos tried flogging.
My local LIDL has Reverend James on offer at £1.29 (and SA Gold)
I keep trying to make the shortish trip to the Black Country to get to Ma Pardoes and to The Beacon for some Sarah Hughes. It'll have to be Christmastime now.
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I've bought small quantities of Westvleteren in a shop in Brussels before now, and while it was perfectly nice it wasn't IMO quite up to all the hype. But then nothing ever is!
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I'm also very fond of the John Martin's beers (mainly, I think, brewed in Scotland, but to the Belgian taste and strength) - Gordon's Special Gold and Gordon's Christmas. John Martin, by the way, commissions the Belgian Guiness mentioned earlier in the trhread, and it comes in at 8%ish (and in my view, is superior to any other Guiness).
The "holy grail" is, of course, Westvleteren, but as it's only available by persoanl atendance at St Sixtus Abbey near Poperinge, and by appointment - and then only a couple of cases can be bought, it's about as obtainable as hens' teeth.
But - juts to show that I'm not against UK brews totally, I do like Ma Pardoes Ruby Mild, and I'll tolerate a good Reverent James if it's kept well.
Bugger! I was in Poperinge a month ago and missed a chance. I found the Belgian Guinness didn't stand up well to the "normal" stuff, but it's better than the Nigerian stuff my local Tescos tried flogging.
My local LIDL has Reverend James on offer at £1.29 (and SA Gold)
I keep trying to make the shortish trip to the Black Country to get to Ma Pardoes and to The Beacon for some Sarah Hughes. It'll have to be Christmastime now.
I'm guessing that, as you've said you go for the hoppy beers, whilst in Poperinge you sampled the Hommelbier (Hommel = hops). Poperinge is the hop growing area for Belgium.
Actually, it may be the Sarah Hughes Ruby Mild that I like - I had rather a lot of it one Christmas and missed Christmas dinner!
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Oh yes! Only a small glass though. I like hops, but not to an overwhelming extent. Marstons Old Empire is one of the better IPAs, for example.
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I don't like beer, except those Belgian raspberry and peach ones made by fruity monks, but I don't like the cherry one. I wish I did like beer.
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I've bought small quantities of Westvleteren in a shop in Brussels before now, and while it was perfectly nice it wasn't IMO quite up to all the hype. But then nothing ever is!
I know what you mean, though I would say Rodenbach Grand Cru does live up to the hype.
d.
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I've bought small quantities of Westvleteren in a shop in Brussels before now, and while it was perfectly nice it wasn't IMO quite up to all the hype. But then nothing ever is!
I know what you mean, though I would say Rodenbach Grand Cru does live up to the hype.
d.
Nah, that one's not for me, though Pingu has rather a lot of it in the shed.
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As you may know we've just been to Seattle/Hood River/Portland where there are lots and lots of microbreweries making a wide range of different styles of beer.
Having a bit of an R&R in Portland on our cycle tour it would be rude not to do a bit of sampling. Portland has the most breweries within the city limits than any other city in the USA if not the world, I think the number is standing at 54 right now.
At first it was a bit weird to drink an ale that was so cold and gassy as they tend to be here, but now I rather like to have an ale from the fridge. They also tend to be very hoppy even a British ale full of hobs is mild in comparison.
Two days ago I tried out a white IPA from Deschutes brewery called Chainbreaker at 5.6%, this surprised me. Never tired a white IPA before and I really enjoyed it.
They also tend to be rather strong too, we visited the Black Raven brewery near Seattle and all I can say is have a dedicated driver if visiting.
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...Rodenbach Grand Cru...
Nom, nom, nom :P
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Looks like a very nice selection!
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Thornbridge Kipling - it's the Centennial hops, I think. Too much passionfruit. The Jaipur, however, is lovely.
Maybe save the Piraat until last if you want to be able to appreciate the others to their fullest, hmm?
d.
I know what you mean, having tasted the stuff on Saturday. I certainly couldn't find the depth of flavours suggested in the 'tasting notes' in m'book. They never mentioned 'piss' – which was an omission in my opinion.
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I seem to collecting a wide variety of beers, both domestic and forrin.
Currently I have:
Estrella Damm - My favourite forrin lager (Sainsburys used to sell it but stopped, now Tesco sell it, so all is not lost :) )
Leffe Blonde
Old Tom
Copper Dragon Golden Pippin
Just need some Walls County Brewery beers (Gun Dog, County Best and Mild & Easy to name but three) and I'll be happy for an evening of beer testing...
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Looks like a very nice selection!
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Thornbridge Kipling - it's the Centennial hops, I think. Too much passionfruit. The Jaipur, however, is lovely.
Maybe save the Piraat until last if you want to be able to appreciate the others to their fullest, hmm?
d.
I know what you mean, having tasted the stuff on Saturday. I certainly couldn't find the depth of flavours suggested in the 'tasting notes' in m'book. They never mentioned 'piss' – which was an omission in my opinion.
;D
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Not consumed ALL in one evening, but a taster of wozbeendrunk recently. It's a big huge thumbs-up! for the Hazelnut Coffee Porter from Saltaire. Delicious. 4.7% alc.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/Beer-Yum-yum_zps2fbcac31.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Riggers_1956/media/Beer-Yum-yum_zps2fbcac31.jpg.html)
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If you liked that one, Riggers, keep an eye out for some 'Bad Kitty'.
Every year we serve it at Galtres Festival it sells out early. Lovely stuff. Some people refuse to believe it doesn't have coffee essence added.
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Mordues' Newcastle Coffee Porter is also a rare treat. My local had it once and, despite begging them, have not had it back since :(
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When I was consulting for a German firm in the 80s I took a trip to SF with a colleague. First time we were in a Californian mall we spotted a Löwenbräu sign and made a beeline for it. God, it was piss - brewed in the US for US palates, and nothing like the original. The same applied for every "German" beer we tried over there. We eventually settled on Samuel Adams, and Anchor Steam when we could get it.
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Tossco are selling a craft lager. Very nice it is too. Brewed by Banks's. A very malty brew, which is good. It contrasts very nicely with their Czech Vratislav lager which is heavily hopped.
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A little under a year ago I had the good fortune to visit a pub in Long Crendon, Buckinghamshire, selling beer made by the local XT brewery. I bought a pint of 4, & it was very good indeed. Unfortunately, I didn't buy it at the start of our visit, so I only had time for one.
XT 4 - recommended.
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It's interesting that the "craft beer" movement means there's less of a distinction between British beer and "foreign" beer these days - but in a good way, as British brewers adopt, adapt and sometimes even improve on beer styles from other parts of the world.
Case in point, that I've been enjoying lately: M&S do a range of single-hopped bottled ales, of which my favourite is the Cascade version. A very American-style pale ale but made for M&S by Nottingham's Castle Rock brewery.
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There's a couple of nice things in Tesco now in the craft beer niche. Luckily they're called craft beers, because I refuse to buy any product with "artisan" in the title. Tesco-branded but brewed by the usual suspects. There's a Red beer/ale, a Steam beer (San Fran style?), a wheat beer (Hooegarden type thing) and a lager.
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The problem that I have is that no (British) beer tastes as good from a bottle as it does from a pump, with or without a sparkler ;) .
I very rarely buy "bitters" in bottles, I'd rather go for lagers or "foreign" beers such "crap" like "1664".
Recently I've aquired a taste for strong Belgian blonde beers.
It doesn't help that a new off-licence down the road (Tiny's Tipple) stocks a wide range .........
I've also got to like Kolsch style lagers.
They're better on draught but they're also great from bottles.
So many beers, so little time.
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More beer gathered under my wing on a visit to London at the weekend. Yum, and double-yum.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/LondonBeer1_zps9c6c6e8c.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Riggers_1956/media/LondonBeer1_zps9c6c6e8c.jpg.html)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/LondonBeer2_zpsdd90e3cf.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Riggers_1956/media/LondonBeer2_zpsdd90e3cf.jpg.html)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/Riggers_1956/LondonBeer3_zpsd4062e68.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Riggers_1956/media/LondonBeer3_zpsd4062e68.jpg.html)
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That's quite a breakfast Riggers ;D
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The White Shield and 13 Guns have gone already!
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What are the breweries in the 2nd & 3rd photies?
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Here you go Pingu:
http://www.insidebeer.com/articles/20131011
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/619/
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I greatly prefer the Belgian beers in general. In my view they are brewed for a market where sipping an excellent product is the norm, whereas in the UK most drinkers look for something that they can down several pints of at a sitting.
My former employer has an education centre near Brussels and I've spent many (wonderful) weeks there.
Once, before an England World Cup game, a few of us went shopping for a trolley full of beers, to watch in the education centre's TV lounge.
The only criteria was that no two bottles were the same (not an issue in a Belgian supermarket).
We sat down an hour or so before kick-off, to get the best seats, and began "warming up" with some of what Trappist Monks seem to do best.
I have no recollection of the kick-off or any of the subsequent evening. Sipping is clearly sage advice.
My observation is that many Belgian beers taste lovely and complex, some not dissimilar to some British Ales. They rarely taste like they are 10% alcohol (which strong UK "Wife beater" lagers do) so invariably it is all to easy to sit down and start glugging pints of wine-strength beers, with the obvious consequences.
I've spent time in the US Mid-West also. They do some seriously terrible things in the name of Beer (Miller Light Ice-White Clear Beer and other similar sounding watery fizz) BUT they also do very nice "Boston Ales".
I ordered Sam Adams whenever I saw it (it was a safe bet) but eventually became a regular of the local "Brew-Pub" where we'd wait anxiously for the next brew to complete, be it a Wheat Beer, a "Boston" Beer or a Porter. It was all very lovely I have to say and the micro-brewers there take it every bit as seriously as your typical CAMRA person over here.
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Mwah-ha-ha :P
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7377/14132984635_4fa54c1588_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nwTeWT)
IMG_3076 (https://flic.kr/p/nwTeWT) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/people/36539950@N00/), on Flickr
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After a heroic session in Belgium (just north of the Ardennes; I can't remember the name of the town…) a mate and I camped on a landfill site… We didn't realise until the following afternoon, when a delivery arrived.
I'm still over eight hundred short of experiencing that Belgium has to offer!
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I'm still over eight hundred short of experiencing that Belgium has to offer!
We can only do our best :P
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Being a Guinness, drinker going abroad always brings a sense of dread. I don't mind a hoppy bitter or a glass of wine (always drink it too fast mind) but lagers in this country could turn me off alcohol. 2 things I've learnt are unpasteurised Budvar Dark in the U Medvidku in Prague is the nuts and always sip your drink in Belgium. That Trappist stuff is strong. I went over to Ghent for the Tour of Flanders this year and the first bar we went into was full of Boy Scouts all drinking. Asked the barman if this was usual and he said they maybe quite young but they are only drinking Maes at 5.2% and we have nothing weaker.
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Which (Guinness/abroad/dread) reminds me. I was once taken to what Salvatore and I had been told was going to be 'A House of a Thousand Beers' in Siegen, Germany. It was on the pretext that we’d been away from England for a week and that we must be missing English beer. It turned out to be the slightly disappointing ‘House of 50 beers’. And even more disappointingly, given the intention of the visit, 47 were German or Czech Pilsner lagers. Then there was a Japanese lager, and Red Stripe, and ‘Guinness’. I felt obliged to ask for the Guinness. It arrived, looking nicely black, with an authentic looking white creamy head, and it tasted like ... German Pilsner lager. It was a disconcerting experience, not least because I felt obliged to pretend that the intended aim of the trip had been satisfied.
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I've never understood Guinness. Apparently, when I express my disappointment at yet another pint of what might as well be a black Carling, it's always the fault of the pub. I've been dragged to Dublin and promised the superlative experience of Guinness as it should be. It's still black piss water. It might have come straight out of the Liffey after a drunken English stag party had collectively emptied their bladders into it. I'm sorry, it's awful. Unless it's the stuff they brew in Africa, which I expect tastes awful anywhere other than Africa, but seems to hit the spot on a sweltering sub-Saharan evening. Mind you, even a bottle of Star works just peachy in such situations.
There are at least 1,000,001 better stouts in the world.
I spent the last couple of days working through the output of various Austin and San Antonio craft breweries. It's a hard life.
My inbox promises a Brewdog Black Saison. At £12 for a 330 ml bottle. Must. Resist. Temptation. They have put a Bottledog five minutes walk from the mothership too.