Why I hate Macs

[citoyen]

Then he needs a PC for all kinds of programs that Macs don't support.

That's what I was saying about a computer being a tool to do a job. Saying Macs are better than PCs without considering what you need the computer for is just silly.

It's a bit like saying cross-head screwdrivers are the best kind of screwdriver but you've only got slot-head screws to use.

d.

[hellymedic]

Then he needs a PC for all kinds of programs that Macs don't support.

That's what I was saying about a computer being a tool to do a job. Saying Macs are better than PCs without considering what you need the computer for is just silly.

It's a bit like saying cross-head screwdrivers are the best kind of screwdriver but you've only got slot-head screws to use.

d.

Indeed.
He seems to borrow this Eee PC a lot, then complain that he fancies a MacBook Air...

[nuttycyclist]

I agree with everything smutchin says, other than the user interface being easier on a mac than a PC.

For the average bod on the street all they want is a machine that does what they want. 

PCs are a good all round tool, the software is easily available* and the bulk of the corporate market (i.e. what they use at work/school) is windows based so it makes sense that their home PC operates the same.  (If the company car is right and drive would you buy a left hand drive for personal use?)


I think that MACs aren't for the average bod on the street, but for somebody interested in "how things work" rather than "use it".   The people that fall into the MAC camp are also those who have considered linux/unix/etc.  The people that don't fall into the mac camp are those that just want to turn on their computer and surf the net/write a document and focus on the content instead of the application they used to generate that content.





* I use this flight sim software and it's brilliant.  I just went and had a look out of interest, and it won't run on MACs unless you have an intel machine and Windows XP.  I have never had any software that I can't run on a PC.

[Jaded]

The people that don't fall into the mac camp are those that just want to turn on their computer and surf the net/write a document and focus on the content instead of the application they used to generate that content.

With respect, that is bollocks.

Those people fall fair and square into the 'Mac camp', whatever that is.

[kyuss]

I think that MACs aren't for the average bod on the street, but for somebody interested in "how things work" rather than "use it".   The people that fall into the MAC camp are also those who have considered linux/unix/etc.

That couldn't be further from the truth. I've no idea how computers work or have any urge or need to find out. I turn it on and use it like the tool it is. PC users on the other hand seem to have a grasp of how computers work better than the average mac user only because they have to learn when every month or so it disappears up it's own a**e and needs fixed. I don't know one PC user that hasn't had to fix something in the last 6 months. That's why I love macs and would struggle with a PC or linux machine in day to day use.

[mike]

+1 for Kyuss.   I bought a mac for 'home stuff' to separate it from my work emails & stuff on my PC and it's been a revelation - SOOOO much quicker to start up, work on stuff, browse, and its lovely to use. 

And it's orders of magnitude less faffing than my PC, everything just worked out of the box.

[citoyen]

That couldn't be further from the truth. I've no idea how computers work or have any urge or need to find out. I turn it on and use it like the tool it is. PC users on the other hand seem to have a grasp of how computers work better than the average mac user only because they have to learn when every month or so it disappears up it's own a**e and needs fixed.

I can't remember the last time I had to go into the Registry on a Mac and change the settings or delete some old key that was causing problems...

Oh, hang on - that's because I've never had to do that.

d.

[PaulF]

I think that MACs aren't for the average bod on the street, but for somebody interested in "how things work" rather than "use it".   The people that fall into the MAC camp are also those who have considered linux/unix/etc.

As kyuss said it's totally the opposite: Macs are for people who want to use computers, PCs for those who want to find out how they work. In my experience Macs are far more stable & reliable than PCs, probably because Apple have control over both hardware (other than peripherals) and software thereby making incompatibilities far less likely. Anecdotally, my wife, a PC user saw my MAc when we got together and said that she'd stick to her PC. She gradually used the Mac more and more and when her PC died she choose to replace it with a Mac.

[nuttycyclist]

Hhhhhhhhhhmm..     this PC, I only had to rebuild once and that was due to a hardware failure on the HDD.

Work PC.  I was still using the same one they put on my desk in 2000, but they took it away recently because they have an Active Directory now instead of an NT4 domain.

Mrs Nutty PC, still using the one they gave her a while ago for work.




The only thing giving me grief is the ruddy Apple software that we had to install to get the iPod half working.

[nuttycyclist]

...
I can't remember the last time I had to go into the Registry on a Mac and change the settings or delete some old key that was causing problems...

Oh, hang on - that's because I've never had to do that.

Me neither.

Never *had* to change a setting, but am often in the registry tweaking and customising the PC simply because it's so easy.

[rae]

You can take the mickey about being fashion victims all you like but you can't say macs are that much more expensive than a comparable PC. Just because they don't sell cheap bottom of the range machines doesn't mean what you get isn't VFM.   

The laptops are very expensive.   If you want a "computer", not some fire breathing workstation, and you don't want an integrated screen, then Macs are very expensive. 

When I said reliability, I meant in terms of software.  Hardware reliability is pretty bad in our experience.

[mecwales]

I've had an iBook G4 for about three years now - over that time it's been used pretty much every day (a large part of that involving being lugged to school and back in a rucksack) and I've never had to restart, reformat or reinstall anything. It still works as well as the first day I got it. As a comparison, a friend who bought a Vaio at the same time is now left with a laptop which takes 3 times as long to finish starting up as mine (despite having a slightly faster processor and more RAM) which necessitates running anti-virus software, and generally involves faffage.

And that's why I like macs.

Nutty: a large proportion of your seeming hatred of macs appears to stem from your experience of iTunes on a PC. If you've ever used Microsoft Office on a mac you would probably come to the same conclusion about Windows. On macs it's a bloated, slow and generally horrid piece of software. I'm guessing it's much better on a PC, and in similarity iTunes is much better on a mac (though I'd question whether it's really that bad on a PC).

I also totally agree with this:

The people that don't fall into the mac camp are those that just want to turn on their computer and surf the net/write a document and focus on the content instead of the application they used to generate that content.

With respect, that is bollocks.

Those people fall fair and square into the 'Mac camp', whatever that is.

My grandparents (both over 80) quite happily use a mac to write letters, manage photos and occasionally surf the web. Can you image an 86 year old with no experience of computers going into the registry to try and personalise their computer? Without cacking something up? Or without even risking cacking something up? With a mac all the customisation or tweaking any normal user requires is easily done in the system preferences: there's no need to go fiddling about with the registry - you can do all you need with much less skill or prior knowledge, and that's why I think they're better for the "average bod on the street".

[Woofage]

Imagine if he were talking about cars instead of computers. Most people just want a car that works. Most people are oblivious to what goes on under the bonnet, they just want to drive around in it and when it does go wrong, they get a professional to fix it for them. It's not about being scared of cars and how they work, it's about preferring to spend their time on other things.

A computer is just a tool for doing a job. I don't care how it works, as long as it does work. And I don't care if it's a Mac or a PC, as long as it's the right machine for the job - at work we use Macs because they are better for design work (the Adobe factor, as Woofage says). If I wanted a high-end gaming machine at home, I'd get a PC because they're better for that kind of job.

For most people - who don't want high-end gaming machines or powerful design capabilities, and aren't interested in customising their machines - the interface becomes the most important factor, and on that score the Mac wins hands-down. It's just easier to use, more intuitive and the applications are better integrated.

Well put .

What annoys me most is people on one side of the camp thinking that their chosen platform is somehow better than the competition. It's a bit like Shimano vs Campagnolo vs SRAM etc. What's worse even worse behaviour is when a user posts a genuine problem on one of these boards and the reply comes back "buy a ***" (where, sadly, *** often stands for an Apple platform ).

As for "Fisher Price", I remember a friend hurling that insult at Windows XP when it first came out, largely because of its garish colours and chunky, rounded icons.

When I first took delivery of my previous computer one of the first things I did was to turn all of that off and go back to a "plain" NT4/Win2k style interface. I'm an experienced user (of various platforms) so don't need all those annoying "helping" hands .

One thing in favour of the non-Apple options is the ability to "roll your own". I admit that this approach is only for the experienced user but when looking for my current computer I couldn't opt for Apple because that company doesn't offer the spec I was looking for. I wanted a Unix-like platform, fair amount of RAM so I can run VM's and process graphics swiftly, expansion capabilities (ie not a laptop), low desktop footprint,  low power consumption and preferably cost under a grand.
Edit: basically what Rae said.

[frankly frankie]

iWords   -    bleurggh!

[Polar Bear]

What annoys me most is people on one side of the camp thinking that their chosen platform is somehow better than the competition. It's a bit like Shimano vs Campagnolo vs SRAM etc. What's worse even worse behaviour is when a user posts a genuine problem on one of these boards and the reply comes back "buy a ***" (where, sadly, *** often stands for an Apple platform ).

Couldn't agree more

[cometworm]

iWords   -    bleurggh!

iWords? That's not an Apple product... iWork, the office suite, is so much better than Office it's almost scary. If I had known about Pages before we bought InDesign at work, we would have saved a few hundred quid.

[nuttycyclist]

...
I also totally agree with this:

The people that don't fall into the mac camp are those that just want to turn on their computer and surf the net/write a document and focus on the content instead of the application they used to generate that content.

With respect, that is bollocks.

Those people fall fair and square into the 'Mac camp', whatever that is.

My grandparents (both over 80) quite happily use a mac to write letters, manage photos and occasionally surf the web. Can you image an 86 year old with no experience of computers going into the registry to try and personalise their computer? Without cacking something up? Or without even risking cacking something up? With a mac all the customisation or tweaking any normal user requires is easily done in the system preferences: there's no need to go fiddling about with the registry - you can do all you need with much less skill or prior knowledge, and that's why I think they're better for the "average bod on the street".

playing with the registry is an advanced fun.  On Windows the "average" tweaks are on the menus.  There is no need to ever open the registry on a PC.

Other than one work colleague I don't have any friend who has a MAc (unless they keep it hidden out of embarrassment).

Everybody I know has/wants a computer for "doing stuff", and they have bought PCs as they are the same as the machines they use at work as they operate in the same way.  Turn on, use, no problems and nothing new to learn.

The only error any of those have had, and want me to mend for them, are based on pure simple user stupidity.  e.g. the most recent one "my laptop is running really slow and has this funny white screen when I start it up".  I looked, and asked her why she was running applications A-Q which were buggering up the PC.  The answer?  "I dunno, they were just internet downloads I clicked on".

Does a MAC prevent user stupidity in installing fancy applications they don't need*, or are the downloads simply not available on a mac?





* e.g. an application that surfs the internet every 10 minutes to change the wallpaper to a random huge photo, and that whenever you turn on the PC opens the application's home page.

[Ian H]

Nearly all printers I know have Macs in the studio and PCs in the office. Horses for courses.

[hellymedic]

I don't hate Macs.
I sometimes dislike the missionary zeal of their users...

[Ian H]

Story about a Mac designer: He was a good designer, if a crap businessman, always late with his invoices, poor at collecting payments.

I noticed that he wrote his invoices by hand. I suggested he could computerise them. He thought that was a brilliant idea.

Next time I saw him he was sitting in front of a newly created computer-generated invoice with a column of figures down the right...and he was using a small calculator to add the column.

[nuttycyclist]

Ian H - a brilliant anecdote of users not understanding how to use machines 


I just remembered a conversation I had with my brother-in-law recently.  He's fed up with having to go to his father's and mend the computer.  Out of frustration last time he just snapped "oh for goodness sake Dad, why don't you just ditch this Mac and buy a normal PC?"

[frankly frankie]

iWords   -    bleurggh!

iWords? That's not an Apple product

i[Words] then - i-anything that starts with a capital letter.

Its just so - me me me.

(Mac user at work, PC at home)

[bobajobrob]

Apple in evil behaviour shocka!

         Apple uses DMCA against iPod interoperability project |
            Technology |
            guardian.co.uk
   

The use of the hash suggests Apple is trying to exploit its monopoly market shares of the portable MP3 player market and iTunes online store to force iPod owners to use iTunes for Windows. Apple uses iTunes to foist its QuickTime media player on Windows users. It has also deceived some users into installing its Safari browser for Windows by offering it as an "update".

[TimC]

I have several colleagues who have Apple laptops. Almost without exception, their motivation for buying a Mac was the same as their motivation for buying a BMW, Oakley sunnies, B&O hifi and reading GQ. It's because it's cool. It has absolutely nothing to do with how well it works, how well built it is, what terrific value for money it might be, or any other logical criteria. It looks good and it's cool. End of story.

Course, there's no-one here who buys bikes and cycling kit for similar reasons, is there....?

[Mr Larrington]

Mac work environments are far less common than Wintel ones, ergo it is easier to "acquire" expensive software for home use on a PC