Author Topic: Grammar that makes you cringe  (Read 857053 times)

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2200 on: 03 June, 2012, 10:49:25 pm »
Here's a t-shirt for you.

http://www.shotdeadinthehead.com/product_view.aspx?pid=4398

Warning, contains some words.

I love this. I may buy it in anticipation of son's need for a handy reference point, notwithstanding the fucking emphasis.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2201 on: 03 June, 2012, 10:50:40 pm »


Are you sure you never use Americanisms?

Forsooth, I trust not.

 ;)

I don't mind the French using different words, since they speak French, and I borrow many words from them. But Americans claim to speak English....

Actually, my main beef is that Burglarize uses more syllables than is necessary, and reminds me of people saying "yourself" when they mean "you".
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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2202 on: 03 June, 2012, 11:03:59 pm »


Are you sure you never use Americanisms?

Forsooth, I trust not.

 ;)

I don't mind the French using different words, since they speak French, and I borrow many words from them. But Americans claim to speak English....

Actually, my main beef is that Burglarize uses more syllables than is necessary, and reminds me of people saying "yourself" when they mean "you".

At what point in time was English set in stone?   As far as I am aware it changes daily.  That's the beauty of it.  As long as we know the meaning it's fine, it gives us more options for song lyrics (something the English language, with all it's wonderful made-up and varied words, is great for. Much better than some rigid languages.)

Like I said, Americans use some old English words that we decided to change or drop from common use.

You probably borrow words/phrases from America all the time, they really have been rather influential.  It all adds to the rich tapestry...etc.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2203 on: 04 June, 2012, 07:52:11 am »
We are so exposed to US language through films & TV we often don't realise how different it is. We know the meanings of loads of US words even though we'd never use them in normal conversation. But going the other way, Americans have huge difficulty understanding non-American English - it's not hugely surprising that Trainspotting was dubbed at the beginning for the US release (subtitles were considered) but loads of other films were totally dubbed - Gregory's Girl and Mad Max for example.
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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2204 on: 04 June, 2012, 09:39:20 am »
Did they ever export Rab C. Nesbitt to America?  A lot of people in England thought its appeal would have been widened with the use of subtitles  ;D  It took me a fair few programmes to work out what "the malky" is.
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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2205 on: 04 June, 2012, 09:47:08 am »
Did they ever export Rab C. Nesbitt to America?  A lot of people in England thought its appeal would have been widened with the use of subtitles  ;D  It took me a fair few programmes to work out what "the malky" is.
Shirley that was written with the assumption that most viewers wouldn't understand most of it? A bit like Rowley Birkin QC.
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rogerzilla

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2206 on: 04 June, 2012, 11:41:39 am »
If you watched it a lot, you eventually understood it all.
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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2207 on: 05 June, 2012, 12:07:49 am »
... assuming it is a word, that is.
It might not have been before and it might not catch on, but it's a word in that sentence. David Martin wordised it.
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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2208 on: 05 June, 2012, 03:53:50 pm »
i look forward to its deusage.

Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2209 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:00:17 pm »
... assuming [dangerise] is a word, that is.

Lexicographer Erin McKean points out here that analysis of large corpora shows that “52 percent of the English lexicon—the majority of the words used in English books—consists of lexical ‘dark matter’ undocumented in standard references.” English is a productive language: speakers and writers can easily coin new words, by generalising from well-known morphological roots, by importing words from other languages, or just by making them up. Most words fall into desuetude, but some survive and prosper.

So it makes no sense to ask, as Matt does in the quote above, whether a lexical item is really a word. It makes sense to ask where (if anywhere) it's in use; it makes sense to ask in which reference works (if any) it can be found; and it makes sense to think about whether it's clear or useful or poetic or concise. But to ask if it's a word? Well, yes, it is. What made you think it might not be?

In this case, dangerize, meaning "to emphasize or exaggerate the danger of something", seems pretty useful to me given the current tendency of politicians and security professionals to engage in the practice: a Google Books search finds hundreds of hits.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2210 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:03:02 pm »
Gareth, this is fine.

But the thread is about what makes you cringe and if 52% of the "English" found in books makes me cringe then it fits the bill.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2211 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:14:49 pm »
"Dangerise" is a good word. Its awkwardness draws attention to the weaseliness of those who do it. 

See also: "disconnect" as a noun. To me, "disconnection" would seem more correct, but I like the way the abrupt ending suggests the meaning of the word. 

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2212 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:18:59 pm »
But the thread is about what makes you cringe and if 52% of the "English" found in books makes me cringe then it fits the bill.

What I'm trying to do is to encourage people to report their cringes as cringes, rather than trying to claim or imply that they have some kind of objective basis for their subjective opinions. "The word dangerize makes me cringe" is fine (personal preference is inarguable); as is "dangerize is not found in the OED" (indeed it isn't), but "is dangerize really a word?" is a rhetorical question that tries to pass off opinion as fact.

(Also, the "52%" refers to the proportion of unique words, not to the proportion of text. See the original research paper, Quantitative Analysis of Culture Using Millions of Digitized Books.)

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2213 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:26:47 pm »
Yes, I see and agree!

mattc

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2214 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:42:41 pm »
"Dangerise" is a good word. Its awkwardness draws attention to the weaseliness of those who do it.
I think it draws attention to the writer's awkwardness.

(Oh, and Deano's post is pure bumtersquatch. )
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2215 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:46:31 pm »
power outage for power failure.  Must have come up already?

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2216 on: 05 June, 2012, 04:46:52 pm »
"Dangerise" is a good word. Its awkwardness draws attention to the weaseliness of those who do it.
I think it draws attention to the writer's awkwardness.

(Oh, and Deano's post is pure bumtersquatch. )

;D

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2217 on: 05 June, 2012, 06:36:13 pm »
power outage for power failure.  Must have come up already?

Power cut.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2218 on: 05 June, 2012, 06:42:16 pm »
power outage for power failure.  Must have come up already?



Kim

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2220 on: 05 June, 2012, 07:24:01 pm »
power outage for power failure.  Must have come up already?

Things go down during a power outage, not come up  :)

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2221 on: 05 June, 2012, 07:30:44 pm »
Only partly true - my dander comes up!

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2222 on: 05 June, 2012, 07:37:57 pm »
power outage for power failure.  Must have come up already?



Gareth, I've only just seen this and it looks interesting.  I'm sure there are technical reasons for separating this terms but in normal speech, as far as end use is concerned, power failure covers them all.

Out of interest, I can see how a fault at the power-provider's end would be a power cut and a malfunction somewhere in the user's equipment could be described as a power failure (which would also successfully describe the first example) but what does the red line (outage) represent?

Again, I'm not denying the word exists!

Kim

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2223 on: 05 June, 2012, 07:46:00 pm »
I always assumed "power outage" was American for "power cut", both specifically referring to an failure interruption somewhere upstream of your own equipment.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #2224 on: 05 June, 2012, 08:26:16 pm »
Same here, so I hope Gareth comes back to explain the fascinating graph.