Grammar that makes you cringe

[mattc]

If the authors were born before 1932, I'll let them off.

[Gareth Rees]

If the authors were born before 1932, I'll let them off.

The OED's citations for sense 1 span the range 1919–2009, so it's clearly still a current sense of the word. If you search for supersonic frequency you'll see that the sense is widespread.

[mattc]

In Murderball - sorry, "Wheelchair Rugby" - they use "Inbound" as a verb quite extensively.

This is particularly grating as they could have used an existing term like throw-in. It took me several games to work out what on earth they were talking about. This is what happens when we let americans invent new sports 

[citoyen]

Yes, only Victorian English public schoolboys should be allowed to invent sports.

d.

[clarion]

If the authors were born before 1932, I'll let them off.

The OED's citations for sense 1 span the range 1919–2009, so it's clearly still a current sense of the word. If you search for supersonic frequency you'll see that the sense is widespread.

I wonder how many citations are included where a word is used in error, in a new sense.

[Gareth Rees]

I wonder how many citations are included where a word is used in error, in a new sense.

That's one way in which new senses of words appear. But in the particular case of supersonic, the "frequency above the range of human hearing" sense was the original one, so the early citations can't be mistakes for the "faster than the speed of sound" sense. The first citation given is this one:

1919   Electrician 25 Apr. 494/2   The French have experimented with a system in which a continuous wave signal is heterodyned to a supersonic frequency.

[mattc]

I think we're barking up the wrong tree here - Cudzo's example was just ambiguous. Seems to me that this word needs a modifier, hence "supersonic frequency" OR "supersonic speed" are both fine.

I grew up with a lot of fuss around supersonic flight etc - so when I hear the word I reflexively think of high speed. That doesn't make it the default or correct meaning!

_{[ And I still don't agreee with incorrect usage just being "different" - if it's wrong, it's wrong! But we've been round this before ... ]}

[clarion]

Gareth's citations raise an interesting possibility, though: The use of supersonic to describe speed may be 'incorrect' usage in the sense we know it.

I don't have access to the references Gareth does (and wish I did), and would be interested to hear the first recorded uses of hypersonic, trans-sonic, and ultrasonic.

[Gareth Rees]

Gareth's citations raise an interesting possibility, though: The use of supersonic to describe speed may be 'incorrect' usage in the sense we know it.

This seems like a very inflexible position to take in the light of the evidence. All three words (supersonic, hypersonic and ultrasonic) have been used to describe both frequencies and speeds.

I don't have access to the references Gareth does (and wish I did)

I get access to the online OED via my local public library, so you might well be able to do the same.

and would be interested to hear the first recorded uses of hypersonic, trans-sonic, and ultrasonic.

Well, the first uses recorded by the OED are as follows.

hypersonic 1. Of, pertaining to, or designating sound waves or vibrations with a frequency greater than about 1000 million Hz.

1937   B. V. R. Rao in Nature 22 May 885/1   Spontaneously existing sound-waves of thermal origin of very high frequencies (‘hyper-sonic waves’).

hypersonic 2. Involving, pertaining to, capable of, or designating speeds greater than about five times the speed of sound.

1946   Jrnl. Math. & Physics 25 247   Hypersonic flows are flow fields where the fluid velocity is much larger than the velocity of propagation of small disturbances, the velocity of sound.

transonic Pertaining to, involving, capable of, or designating speeds close to that of sound, at which some of the flow round a body is supersonic and some subsonic and there are characteristic changes in the behaviour of an aircraft.

1946   Britannica Bk. of Year (U.S.) 833/2   Trans-sonic, speeds ranging from 550 to 760 m.p.h.

ultrasonic 1. a. The more usual synonym of supersonic adj. 1.

1923   Proc. & Trans. Royal Soc. Canada 17 iii. 145   The wave-lengths of ultra-sonic waves are very convenient for experiment.

ultrasonic 2. Designating speeds above that of sound.

1942   Jrnl. Royal Aeronaut. Soc. 46 85   Equations of general application are derived, proving that both for infrasonic and for ultrasonic (supersonic) velocities, an extremum of the cross-section is possible.

[clarion]

I'm not positing an inflexible position, just suggesting that our assumption that the earlier usage of a word is naturally the correct one gets overturned by our concurrent, but in this case contradictory, belief that the most common use is correct.

Where words have a technical use, the specific meaning being clearly understood is important.  In my former profession, there was an important difference in meaning between light, lantern, luminaire, lamp etc.  Confusion could have been very dangerous.  I suspect that, in technical environments, ultrasonic would be used for the audio meaning, and supersonic for velocity, almost exclusively.

[clarion]

From an interesting article someone linked to in the Forgers Gazette, featuring photos of lumberjacks felling redwoods:

Dramatic photos show the measure of a man in contrast to the enormity of nature

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2198481/Magical-photos-lumberjacks-California-redwoods.html#ixzz265zAclxZ

[Pickled Onion]

meaning 4

Or was it something else making you cringe?

[clarion]

Er, yes.  It was.  But that dictionary's Meaning 3 undermines good usage and robs us of another useful word.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Meaning 3
 
 

[mattc]

Meaning 3
 
 

That usage was shot down recently; either in this thread (which is obviously my primary source for grammar and style) or by The Times pedantry columnist. It's quite recent, and dilutes the earlier meanings. Oh well.

[clarion]

Zackly.  Cudz, that's what I was alluding to.

I wonder, if I use the word 'Teaspoon' to mean Jeremy Hunt, as I just have - mark that, Lexicographers! - it becomes a meaning.  Rendering all language teaching hatstand*


* by which I mean 'meaningless', natch

[mattc]

I wonder, if I use the word 'Teaspoon' to mean Jeremy Hunt, as I just have - mark that, Lexicographers! - it becomes a meaning.

I'm guessing that YACF won't be indexed. So either sneak it into an academic paper, or get a letter published in a (grown-up) newspaper. Good luck!

[Cudzoziemiec]

If only you do it, it's wrong. If YACF does it, it's wacky. If cyclists generally do it, it's slang. If an academic does it, it's an idiosyncrasy. If a group of academics does it, it's jargon. If enough people do it for long enough, it becomes correct.

I expect "enormity" is approaching the last stage, in that enough people use it that way for it to be easily understood. Even people whose business is words use it that way, as the example shows. (I think it's fair to see the Daily Mail deals in words rather than news.) This leaves us with the problem of how to say "enormity" in its original meaning, but I think that's less of a problem than it would appear. Those who understand the word will know what you mean, while those who think it means "enormousness" are unlikely to have understand the concept of enormity in the first place.

[mattc]

If only you do it, it's wrong. If YACF does it, it's wacky. If cyclists generally do it, it's slang. If an academic does it, it's an idiosyncrasy. If a group of academics does it, it's jargon. If enough people do it for long enough, it becomes correct.

I expect "enormity" is approaching the last stage, in that enough people use it that way for it to be easily understood.

That's not why it's easily understood - it's because it looks like it's related to enormous, so the reader can make a reasonable guess.

(You should of realised that  )

[why1040]

Homonym rather than straight grammar, but it led me to choke on an almond, never mind cringe.

A building site near here actually has a sign stating that the "principle contractor" is [name removed to protect the guilty]   

[clarion]

Naughty matt!

Why, perhaps their principles are contracting...

[Mr Larrington]

Missouri seems to be keen on its "Adult Superstores", which I presume is a bowdlerised term for "sex shops".  Anyway, I have this afternoon seen a Several of billboards which read:

"Passion's: Couple's Adult Superstores" at the side of I-70.  The letters are about six feet high

[why1040]

Traffic report at 18:32 today on Magic "And the Tubes are still running good"   

[Kim]

Traffic report at 18:32 today on Magic "And the Tubes are still running good"   

Those'll be the ones that provide the interwebs, presumably?   

[L CC]

With the launch of FFX, the vision will always been the same

• Our best possible price
• Delivered quickly
• With great service

But not with consistent tenses.