Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Phil W on 26 September, 2016, 08:01:00 pm
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The LEL 2017 Route, including maps, GPX and routesheets can be found at
https://londonedinburghlondon.com/route/
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The current set will do the job for planning, but are now several months old. There have been/will be a lot of minor changes, which I'll do in one big update probably early next year.
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looking forward to a test of the St Ives leg northwards sometime
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Some amends not on the current files:
- Slightly longer route around Spalding, cutting out a tedious and confusing route through the town centre.
- A new route near Kirton to avoid a maze of rutted, unmarked roads.
- New controls at Barnard Castle and Innerleithen, new facilities at Alston.
- Free routing over the Humber bridge.
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There have been/will be a lot of minor changes
I'll planning a ride for next month, including a routecheck of the St Ives to Great Easton (so southbound) leg.
Are there any changes I should be aware of? Or indeed anything you'd like me to specifically check?
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There have been/will be a lot of minor changes
I'll planning a ride for next month, including a routecheck of the St Ives to Great Easton (so southbound) leg.
Are there any changes I should be aware of? Or indeed anything you'd like me to specifically check?
Should be alright for that section in the next month. Just the usual, check route sheet and / or GPX for mistakes, feedback on route, anything new that has turned up and may improve or degrade the route. For instance if a road feels really rough, or a sign post if missing, or a new super duper 6 lane cycle highway with no junctions appears between St Ives and Great Easton. Always useful noting villages with open shops or pubs along the route. (these won't go in any route sheet but good to generally share).
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OK, cool, will do.
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How much modification of the route published on the website is envisaged?. Is it worth me whiling away my winter months studying the route and making tracks/routes for each leg, or will it change and make my toil wasted?
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How much modification of the route published on the website is envisaged?. Is it worth me whiling away my winter months studying the route and making tracks/routes for each leg, or will it change and make my toil wasted?
It's already split down by leg, no need to do it yourself.
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I mean more turning them into navigable turn by turn routes suitable for my etrex30. (I am a lazy git and don't like duplicating effort :) )
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I mean more turning them into navigable turn by turn routes suitable for my etrex30. (I am a lazy git and don't like duplicating effort :) )
Ah I see, there's proposed changes between St Ives and Louth which aren't yet in the website version. No other changes I'm aware of at the moment but final revisions will probably be in the Spring. So by all means study the legs but hold back from creating your routes just yet. Not that creating routes from an existing track takes that long, but if you can hold back it'll save you some rework.
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I'm someone without any GPS.
I usually memorise route and use route sheet, town names as much as possible. In unavoidable situations, I take help of google maps. In few brevets, where there are many twists and turns, I loaded offline maps in ride with gps and survived.
Anyway, primary thing in my riding style is knowing town names along the route. It will help me to enquire anyone along the route, without completely getting lost.
So can I get some help with important/ main town or village names in between each stage ?
i.e for example, I came to know from Danial's post in fb that route from Brampton to Moffat passes through Ecclefechan and Lockerbie.
P.s : I can get them from map, but I do no know which town name will lead me ahead with confusing person whom I'm asking !
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On the route sheet, towns and villages that we pass through are in ALL CAPITALS - if you go off route, heading to the next one should help you get back on course.
Not all such towns are listed though - just ones where there's a route instruction, or which appear on a direction sign.
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So can I get some help with important/ main town or village names in between each stage ?
i.e for example, I came to know from Danial's post in fb that route from Brampton to Moffat passes through Ecclefechan and Lockerbie.
P.s : I can get them from map, but I do no know which town name will lead me ahead with confusing person whom I'm asking !
It may be worth downloading the GPS route on the LEL site and then upload them to ridewithgps.com to follow the route and see what places the ride goes through.
You can then highlight the larger places on your route sheet.
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So can I get some help...
Overseas riders will of course benefit from help from the locals, in advance [like here] or on the ride - so look out for our guests, people!
Quote from an Irish rider, discussing the route sheet for The Flatlands 2014: 'You've got a lot of roads here, Tom', and on another ride, a Canadian: '150km, turn R, 150km turn R...repeat, is our typical 600'.
Navigating by road signs alone is very dodgy here, as it's ridiculously inconsistent, unlike in logical-minded France. The excuse is, it's a deliberate attempt to confuse invaders. See 'The Rolling English Road' by GK Chesterton for a poetic exposition of the erm....creative nature of the British in relation to navigation.
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Navigating by road signs alone is very dodgy here
Quite. Most road signs will attempt to send you via the most direct route, which is probably an A road and not suitable for cycling.
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It may be worth downloading the GPS route on the LEL site and then upload them to ridewithgps.com to follow the route and see what places the ride goes through.
The route is also available to browse on the LEL website (https://londonedinburghlondon.com/route/).
You'll note that apart from the control towns, the route mostly manages to run the whole length of the country without going through anywhere.
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So can I get some help...
Overseas riders will of course benefit from help from the locals, in advance [like here] or on the ride - so look out for our guests, people!
Quote from an Irish rider, discussing the route sheet for The Flatlands 2014: 'You've got a lot of roads here, Tom', and on another ride, a Canadian: '150km, turn R, 150km turn R...repeat, is our typical 600'.
Navigating by road signs alone is very dodgy here, as it's ridiculously inconsistent, unlike in logical-minded France. The excuse is, it's a deliberate attempt to confuse invaders. See 'The Rolling English Road' by GK Chesterton for a poetic exposition of the erm....creative nature of the British in relation to navigation.
A clear example of this in your manor Tom.....on the southbound leg from St.Ives/Gt. Easton @km 67, riders may be tempted to follow the road sign to Gt. Easton instead of the route sheet instruction to Tilty...not a heinous error, but could be very confusing in the dark
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Could anyone explain why the route Barnard Castle to Middleton (Northbound) is different to the route Middleton to Barnard Castle (Southbound)? I'm sure some thought was put into this, so just wondering.
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Could anyone explain why the route Barnard Castle to Middleton (Northbound) is different to the route Middleton to Barnard Castle (Southbound)? I'm sure some thought was put into this, so just wondering.
Just for a bit of variety?
If you prefer one over the other, there's nothing to stop you going out & back along the same route
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Could anyone explain why the route Barnard Castle to Middleton (Northbound) is different to the route Middleton to Barnard Castle (Southbound)? I'm sure some thought was put into this, so just wondering.
Yep, that caught me by surprise, and I'm the Barnard Castle controller! Glad I looked at the routesheet and gpx files before we marked the route.
Danial has an answer for everything and there's sure to be a good reason for it, and the route from last time didn't take you past the castle (this time the southbound leg does)
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Usually it's because reversing the route could mean a junction that's:
* easy to describe going one way (e.g. Left at T-Junction) but tricky going the other way (17th right, not signposted)
* safe with good sight lines going one way but horrible going the other way (e.g. turning right on a blind corner or on a fast road)
etc.
What works one way doesn't necessarily work the other way on a routesheet. Those who just download a GPX to their Garmin and follow the purple line may be oblivious to all this.
I haven't looked at the LEL route to have a guess as to why it's different. As others have said, it may just be for a bit of variety.
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On our Easter Arrow, eck otp opined why the route went one way from Middleton to BC when the sign at the junction pointed the other way (the route had been devised for a previous Arrow by a different esteemed Audax Ecossais otp). On returning to FurryBootToon I checked both options on RideWithGPS. It seems the sign-posted route is slightly shorter but has a fair bit more climbing.
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Quite a few areas of the routesheet are shaded pink and I cannot see any mention in the guide. The only hit I got on Google was MarcusJB suggesting that we should be wearing pink ra ra skirts at Brampton ???
Does this signify sections that are signed ?
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Could anyone explain why the route Barnard Castle to Middleton (Northbound) is different to the route Middleton to Barnard Castle (Southbound)? I'm sure some thought was put into this, so just wondering.
If I recall correctly, in 2009 there was a different southbound route through BC which avoided dipping down to that messy junction by the bridge. (At least, I took a different route, even if no one else did :))
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Does this signify sections that are signed ?
I believe that is the intention.
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Could anyone explain why the route Barnard Castle to Middleton (Northbound) is different to the route Middleton to Barnard Castle (Southbound)? I'm sure some thought was put into this, so just wondering.
In 2013 the control was on the top road to Middleton. So it made sense to continue from there, rather than double back. In order to see the castle you have to take the other, more Westerly road. This year the control is before the junction of the two routes. The outward route takes you through the town, and the return takes you past the castle.
The return route is more of a roller-coaster, and the outward climbs steadily to a higher point, which is more exposed. If there is a South Westerly wind, you might get some benefit outward, while the return is more sheltered.
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Apologies if this has been covered in another thread but I notice that when downloading the GPX files (a first for me :-\) two "alternative" routes are included, from Brampton to Moffat and St Ives to Gt Easton. I've saved these on my device but haven't worked out how to haven put them into Garmin Connect so that I can view them as maps.
Can anyone tell me what the main differences are between the official and alternative routes? As each is longer, I'm assuming that they are a bit flatter or miss out something that tired riders might prefer to avoid (e.g. Cambridge city centre).
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Brampton to Moffat alt is the scenic route to the east of the official route. If you like that kind of thing, but it is somewhat potholed , and not recommended officially. Pretty though. The St Ives - Great Easton alt bypasses Crambridge and is closer to the southbound route of 2013.
So your choice as always depending on your mood and the timings.
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Could anyone explain why the route Barnard Castle to Middleton (Northbound) is different to the route Middleton to Barnard Castle (Southbound)? I'm sure some thought was put into this, so just wondering.
In 2013 the control was on the top road to Middleton. So it made sense to continue from there, rather than double back. In order to see the castle you have to take the other, more Westerly road. This year the control is before the junction of the two routes. The outward route takes you through the town, and the return takes you past the castle.
The return route is more of a roller-coaster, and the outward climbs steadily to a higher point, which is more exposed. If there is a South Westerly wind, you might get some benefit outward, while the return is more sheltered.
May I also add that the north-bound route from Barney to Middleton-in-Teesdale contains an absolute treat of a view up Teesdale from Folly Top. It is a view which begs to be photographed but unless you're expecting it you'll be too late with the camera because the wide open and well surfaced descent is a hoot to freefall down. For anyone thinking of going the other way - you'll miss one of my favourite views of Teesdale.
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For anyone looking for an LEL routesheet that is designed to fold down to A6 size, see here — http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/ (http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/). This is a complete rewrite of the routesheet, in my style, for me, to be folded down to A6, because that's how I do it. If anyone else is in the same dilemma in that the official routesheet is a bit too cumbersome for them then you may find what you're looking for above.
If anyone likes my slightly baroque abbreviations — and there is a full key to my shorthand on the routesheet, twice in fact — but would prefer to use an A5 map case over A6, such as those on Carradice Super C and Ortlieb bar bags, I've also done an A5 version as 2x A6 side-by-side. Same link above.
And if anyone's looking for precise GPX or TCX tracks of the entire route, not down-sampled at all, but in their original high-res form, I've done a set of those also. I've also broken out the stage S1 and S8 into all the sub-stages as one-GPX-per-stage, if you like the distance-remaining to be correct on your Garmin. And all those are available on RideWithGPS (https://ridewithgps.com/events/18751-london-edinburgh-london-2017), if anyone wants to grab a copy for themselves to play around with.
UPDATE — as it happens, Danial also posted a link to the originals of the official GPX files here — https://ridewithgps.com/events/39150-london-edinburgh-london-2017 (https://ridewithgps.com/events/39150-london-edinburgh-london-2017) — which are just as good if you want to export your own from RWGPS :thumbsup:
Obvious disclaimer — none of these have been tested, but they have been carefully checked against the official routesheet and GPXes which HAVE been tested. But how hard can it be?!
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Just in case the Humber Bridge is closed to cycle traffic, I have also prepared routesheets and GPS files for diversions between Louth and Pocklington and the reverse. I think it is UNlikely they will be needed, but it might be worth grabbing the GPX files just in case, since they weigh nothing. Same link as above — http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/#diversion (http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/#diversion).
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Those are spectacular - exactly what I'm after.
One thing - the time limit is 116h40m. You've got it as 116h20m on the top of every page. I'm expecting to need those minutes!
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Those are spectacular - exactly what I'm after.
One thing - the time limit is 116h40m. You've got it as 116h20m on the top of every page. I'm expecting to need those minutes!
Thanks Graham — I did update it but managed to undo it accidentally. It will be a nice surprise for anyone working to that time ;)
Edit: I have updated the PDFs with the correct time-allowed (although obviously wrong if you're in the 100-hour groups!).
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The added touristic information make them more interesting
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IMPORTANT — I did a final, side-by-side, line-by-line check of my routesheet against the official one and, unfortunately, found a couple of "other-right" errors. I have posted new versions to the page above (http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017) — I am now VERY confident that my routesheet is at least as accurate as the official one. All of the specific errors were mitigated by having precise signage given in each instruction, so nobody should get lost because of this.
If you downloaded the routesheet before 4pm today (21 July) then you might want to re-download it. The new, good version has the date "2017-07-21" in the filename — the erroneous version is 2017-07-18B.
If you've already printed it out then the changes are listed on an addendum page linked from the main page — you can mark the few changes up with a Sharpie on your printout, no probs.
Sorry! :-[ But all good now :thumbsup:
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And if anyone's looking for precise GPX or TCX tracks of the entire route, not down-sampled at all, but in their original high-res form, I've done a set of those also.
Are these significantly different from the files located here: https://londonedinburghlondon.com/route/ ?
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And if anyone's looking for precise GPX or TCX tracks of the entire route, not down-sampled at all, but in their original high-res form, I've done a set of those also.
Are these significantly different from the files located here: https://londonedinburghlondon.com/route/ ?
They are, in the detail, more precise, because they haven't been "down-sampled".
These also include cues to tell you which control you're rolling into (useful on day 3+) mostly for Garmin Edge users.
However, if you're a pink-line follower (eTrex, et al) then either will get you there as good as the others.
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Thank you :thumbsup:
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GPX files:
If anyone is looking for GPS files with Cue sheets, I created a RideWithGPS 'event' with these here (https://ridewithgps.com/events/39315-london-edinburgh-london-with-cues)
https://ridewithgps.com/events/39315-london-edinburgh-london-with-cues
(Zip file of full-res GPXs with cues, excluding alternative options, here) (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4rPWl4EfyhUYkZqc0tVMHl6dlU).
Provenance: read the Facebook thread (https://www.facebook.com/groups/392520757598601/permalink/740215299495810) for full details, but tl'dr these were traced by John Meier from Daniel's official GPX files, and then assembled into an event by me. Standard disclaimers apply.
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They are, in the detail, more precise, because they haven't been "down-sampled".
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I created the tracks in ridewithgps, then downloaded them from ridewithgps. Did you create yours using different software?
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I've never understood this fascination with tracks that show a greater level of detail. The 500 point limit of my HCx generation Etrexes has never been a handicap in practice
Does the fact that a downsampled track wanders (slightly) away from the road confuse the newer devices?
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They are, in the detail, more precise, because they haven't been "down-sampled".
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I created the tracks in ridewithgps, then downloaded them from ridewithgps. Did you create yours using different software?
It looks like there has been a node-reduction in the offical GPX files, AFTER they were exported from RWGPS. This produces small inaccuracies in the GPX — the line "leaves" the road by a few metres every now and again as it carves a straight line where the road bends a bit. This is what I meant by "in the detail" — for pink-line followers then it will make little-to-no difference; for Garmin Edge users then there will be the occasional false "off-course" warning when using lo-res GPX tracks. However, the reduced node-count does mean the official GPXes will work on every device, no matter how old/legacy.
I also created mine in RWGPS by following your routesheet, turn-by-turn, while checking it. These are exactly the same precision as yours, in RWGPS. However, I provide hi-res GPXes — a version that is NOT down-sampled — as well as very-lo-res GPXes for legacy devices. And TCXes, which are also hi-res. They start from exactly the same point in RWGPS, but are processed differently after export.
The problem is in helping riders understand which is the right version for them — there is no easy answer to this, at least the first time they ponder the question. But those who do know what they want, and do want a hi-res format, can get that from my page directly, or by exporting each individual track from your RWGPS event page themselves without the down-sampling — most riders just want a point-and-click solution, hence I provide the hi-res tracks in a one-shot ZIP file to save them the hundred or so clicks it takes to export all the tracks individually from an event page.
I have mentioned several times that all of the routes available — yours, mine and others — will get you there, and that, except in the detail (precision), all are as good as the others. I have also clearly stated that yours are the "gold standard" :thumbsup:
For me, personally, TCX is the format of choice, because I use a Garmin Edge. TCX supports additional features that are not available in GPX and is probably therefore "slightly better" for Edge users, but that's just me, and it does depend on what each individual rider wants from the track. No matter, the lo-res GPX will still get users of the latest Garmin Edge device from beginning to end just fine, but without the "detail" and with the occasional false-positive "off-course" warning.
The one other tiny bit of detail that I have added is to route to the bike park at each control — this is from my experience of 2013 for some controls and a leap-of-faith at the new control-locations. The only control where finding the way in in 2013 was an issue was Brampton on the way north, in the dark — the junction outside the school was unlit and so incredibly hard to see anything on approach. By the time we came south the following evening, it was lit up like a disco! ;)
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I've never understood this fascination with tracks that show a greater level of detail. The 500 point limit of my HCx generation Etrexes has never been a handicap in practice
Does the fact that a downsampled track wanders (slightly) away from the road confuse the newer devices?
Yes — Garmin Edge devices beep and show an "Off Course" warning when the line and the road diverge by a few metres — they can even do this on mini-roundabouts, annoyingly. The greater precision in a hi-res track reduces the number of these false warnings to a tolerable level.
For me, it affects the way I ride someone's route: I always try to ride to the routesheet without triggering an off-course warning because of my own poor-navigation. Even in this digital age and with my extensive technical background, I do love me a nice piece of battery-free paper :) So I do want to have off-course warnings enabled, just in case I make a mistake (that's part of the "game"); but I don't want to have the real warnings swamped by the false-positives. What I don't do is simply follow a pink line — it is there if I want it, but I mostly keep my eyes on the routesheet and the road.
FWIW, the even-better/bigger TCX format enables me to include cuepoints within the file and these pop-up on Garmin Edge devices — and beep — as you arrive at them. Most of the time these are trite — 20km to next control, 10km to next control, etc. But on certain audaxes with lots of info controls in the dark then it is a real, tangible benefit to get a heads-up 500m before and about 10m before the info control — and I'm not the only one who thinks so, given the comments I've received after such an event.
These are small things, but if you've already got the device that supports them then it's nice to be able to use them. However, you are also correct in that, if all you are doing is following a pink line on the screen then the 500-point track is fine :thumbsup:
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I've never understood this fascination with tracks that show a greater level of detail. The 500 point limit of my HCx generation Etrexes has never been a handicap in practice
Does the fact that a downsampled track wanders (slightly) away from the road confuse the newer devices?
Yes — Garmin Edge devices beep and show an "Off Course" warning when the line and the road diverge by a few metres — they can even do this on mini-roundabouts, annoyingly. The greater precision in a hi-res track reduces the number of these false warnings to a tolerable level.
For me, it affects the way I ride someone's route: I always try to ride to the routesheet without triggering an off-course warning because of my own poor-navigation. Even in this digital age and with my extensive technical background, I do love me a nice bit of battery-free paper :) So I do want to have off-course warnings enabled, just in case I make a mistake (that's part of the "game"); but I don't want to have the real warnings swamped by the false-positives. What I don't do is simply follow a pink line — it is there if I want it, but I mostly keep my eyes on the routesheet and the road.
FWIW, the even-better/bigger TCX format enables me to include cuepoints within the file and these pop-up on Garmin Edge devices as you arrive at them. Most of the time these are trite — 20km to next control, 10km to next control, etc. But on certain audaxes with lots of info controls in the dark then it is a real, tangible benefit to get a heads-up 500m before and about 10m before the info control — and I'm not the only one who thinks so, given the comments I've received after such an event.
These are small things, but if you've already got the device that supports them then it's nice to be able to use them. However, you are also correct in that, if all you are doing is following a pink line on the screen then the 500-point track is fine :thumbsup:
Thanks for the explanation.
I'm doing a little more than following a line. I'm still using what used to be referred in these pages as the 'jwo method'. It's a little more labour-intensive but provides the audible warnings and instructions at each turn. No off-course warnings though.
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Thanks for the explanation.
I'm doing a little more than following a line. I'm still using what used to be referred in these pages as the 'jwo method'. It's a little more labour-intensive but provides the audible warnings and instructions at each turn. No off-course warnings though.
Every time the discussion comes up, I learn something new about "the other side" :thumbsup: I'm not familiar with the "jwo method", but I could not imagine spending all that time and effort adding all those warnings and instructions to the GPS files when they're already in the routesheet, just waiting to be committed to paper — chapeau!
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What's interesting is how riders team up to solve these problems on the road.
I've got two independent GPS devices, usually running route files from two different sources. That's why I got a lot of free towing from a pair of stronger riders who only had one broken GPS between them on a recent audax :-D
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The warnings with the jwo method are automatic - and instructions are only 2 or 3 characters.
Time & effort certainly but not too onerous AND in adding them you get to double-check the routesheet against the map.
Organiser's routesheets and even GPX tracks have been known to contain errors - although in the case of LEL I'm fairly sure they have all been spotted & corrected.
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It looks like there has been a node-reduction in the offical GPX files, AFTER they were exported from RWGPS.
There hasn't. The official files have come straight from ridewithgps, unaltered.
EDIT - it would interesting to see where you've found the line going off route by a few metres, because I've never encountered that when I've ridden with my husband, who uses a Mio to navigate.
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if all you are doing is following a pink line on the screen then the 500-point track is fine :thumbsup:
A hi-res track makes it a lot easier to follower the pink line through junctions, especially if you have a hi-res device.
Organiser's routesheets and even GPX tracks have been known to contain errors - although in the case of LEL I'm fairly sure they have all been spotted & corrected.
The good thing about GPX tracks is that even if they're "wrong" they will always lead you (eventually) to the next control.
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The good thing about GPX tracks is that even if they're "wrong" they will always lead you (eventually) to the next control.
Unless they break the 10,000 point limit, in which case they can abandon you in the middle of nowherethe moors.
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Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated). Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where? All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.
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Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated). Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where? All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.
Yes
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It looks like there has been a node-reduction in the offical GPX files, AFTER they were exported from RWGPS.
There hasn't. The official files have come straight from ridewithgps, unaltered.
EDIT - it would interesting to see where you've found the line going off route by a few metres, because I've never encountered that when I've ridden with my husband, who uses a Mio to navigate.
Hmm, that's very interesting, Alwyn —
- I exported some tracks from your event and compared them to the ones provided on the LEL website and mine are slightly larger — that appears to be a formatting difference inside the GPX, nothing major.
The tracks from both sources have exactly the same number of trackpoints - I have exported some tracks from your event, and some from my event, and the ones from mine come out at nearly twice the size as yours, in spite of them being exactly the same course! On checking the number of trackpoints, for some reason mine have over three times as many!
The only reasons I can think for the difference is that either the number of dots are used to plot the route affect the number of trackpoints in the export (I'll be testing this); or else that's one of the "benefits" of being a Premium member?
Hmm, so, for some reason, the GPX files exported from my event are technically more precise, but absolutely not for the reason I gave.
My apologies, I did not mean to suggest anything or mislead anyone :-[
It's interesting enough to warrant further investigation, just because. However, it is nothing to worry about in the next 10 days.
As for examples, they are there, but nowhere near as big as when using down-sampled GPXes, or ones exported at 500 points. False off-course warnings seem to be a "feature" of Garmin Edge devices only — all other devices seem to be fairly tolerant.
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Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated). Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where? All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.
Yes
:thumbsup:
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Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated). Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where? All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.
Yes
Absolutely yes — the ones on the LEL website are perfect, they are the Gold Standard :thumbsup:
Any other files out there are for the tiny minority of GPS geeks interested in unimportant and inconsequential differences in the detail. ALL the files will get you there, wherever you got them from :)
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Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated). Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where? All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.
Yes
Absolutely yes — the ones on the LEL website are perfect, they are the Gold Standard :thumbsup:
Any other files out there are for the tiny minority of GPS geeks interested in unimportant and inconsequential differences in the detail. ALL the files will get you there, wherever you got them from :)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Back to route sheets, All 14 pages + 4 HB diversion printed out, wondering whether to laminate (will await a later weather forecast). Like the local POI's - Thanks Nick, excellent work!
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Back to route sheets, All 14 pages + 4 HB diversion printed out, wondering whether to laminate (will await a later weather forecast). Like the local POI's - Thanks Nick, excellent work!
Waterproof paper - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Toughprint-Waterproof-Paper-25-Sheets/dp/B01M8GNOQH
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Back to route sheets, All 14 pages + 4 HB diversion printed out, wondering whether to laminate (will await a later weather forecast). Like the local POI's - Thanks Nick, excellent work!
A brevet bag is a pretty good fit for A6, if you have an old one lying around from a recent event.
I use waterproof paper — but you can't seem to get anything cost-effective in the UK at the moment; I'm on a box that's nearly a year old and halfway gone. I have experience of bags, acetate and waterproof paper, and the waterproof paper is the best without question, because it doesn't reflect the headtorch at night like a bag and it doesn't get shiny in the rain like acetate; it's also a lot easier to handle, as it's just paper that happens to be waterproof.
And you're welcome, Aidan :thumbsup:
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They are, in the detail, more precise, because they haven't been "down-sampled".
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I created the tracks in ridewithgps, then downloaded them from ridewithgps. Did you create yours using different software?
Will the official gpx files work fine with eTrex devices? I've heard that ridewithgps puts huge numbers of points in the gpx files, by default. I've had my eTrex 30x strand me on a 200k when the route just stopped, but an edge 800 was fine with the exact same gpx.
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Will the official gpx files work fine with eTrex devices? I've heard that ridewithgps puts huge numbers of points in the gpx files, by default. I've had my eTrex 30x strand me on a 200k when the route just stopped, but an edge 800 was fine with the exact same gpx.
Bob, as I understand it from eTrex users then it depends on the model — some models can handle only 500 points per track, some are limited to 10,000 points overall in all tracks on the device added together. Since there are 18 stages then if you used 500-point tracks, that would be 9,000 points and very close to the device limit. Someone with more experience of eTrex limitations will hopefully be along soon to confirm that as true or dispel that as myth.
I have not done a node count on every file from the official set, but I am certain the official set (and my own full-GPX set) comes to more than 10,000 points total — the first stage alone is over 2000 trackpoints. You might be better served using the 500-point set from my webpage here — http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/ (http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/) — although I would strongly urge you to load them up and make sure you don't get any issues and that ALL of the files are present and can be loaded and viewed on the map.
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UPDATE — I have added "long" tracks to the ZIP files on my page (http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/#gps). :thumbsup:
These long tracks cover three stages each, giving six tracks of about 200-250km each. If you don't fancy the idea of having to load up a new track as you leave each control then these may be for you.
I have added my usual 20-10-5-2-1-0 km-to-go beeps to the TCX files as well — those who've used my TCXes in the past will be familiar; the beeps can be a bit "Marmite" in nature. My individual TCX tracks don't include the beeps.
Also, don't forget to clear out any old tracks and activities from your device before you start your LEL campaign — Garmins in particular have a nasty habit of crashing mid-course if they're "a bit full" ::-)
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Bob, as I understand it from eTrex users then it depends on the model — some models can handle only 500 points per track, some are limited to 10,000 points overall in all tracks on the device added together. Since there are 18 stages then if you used 500-point tracks, that would be 9,000 points and very close to the device limit. Someone with more experience of eTrex limitations will hopefully be along soon to confirm that as true or dispel that as myth.
Thanks, you inspired me to do some more digging. For eTrex 30/20 and 30x/20x those limits are here https://support.garmin.com/faqSearch/en-GB/faq/content/Sf7jHKwP2V53j6MoP8AeH8 (https://support.garmin.com/faqSearch/en-GB/faq/content/Sf7jHKwP2V53j6MoP8AeH8) and the relevant limits seem to be:
200 saved tracks
10,000 points per track
I'd hope the official tracks aren't likely to exceed that. A 200k track from RWGPS might well, from the sounds of it.
You might be better served using the 500-point set from my webpage here
That might well be the most convenient option.
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200 saved tracks
10,000 points per track
I'd hope the official tracks aren't likely to exceed that. A 200k track from RWGPS might well, from the sounds of it.
IM(limited)E, RWGPS tracks seem to truncate around c280km because of the 10,000 points limit.
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200 saved tracks
10,000 points per track
I'd hope the official tracks aren't likely to exceed that. A 200k track from RWGPS might well, from the sounds of it.
IM(limited)E, RWGPS tracks seem to truncate around c280km because of the 10,000 points limit.
That's good info both, thanks.
Yes, John, now that you mention it, PhilW did mention to me that 10,000 points is some sort of "magic number" internal to Garmins. Utterly ridiculous given the amount of computing power available within these devices, but hey-ho. And my experience is definitely of long tracks silently "going to sleep" after 300-400km — turn-by-turn stops beeping and suddenly you find yourself off-route and lost.
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Those route sheets are great, thanks Wilkyboy! I was discussing the official route sheet with Robert Bialek recently and he was having difficulty folding them to be easily readable, as they extend too wide to work within the usual route sheet holders, or even elastic banded onto an arm (my preferred method for dealing with route sheets).
I'm not riding but I had to agree with him. I would have done something very similar myself - well, you've seen my route sheets - so I applaud the effort you've taken. The wilkyboy alternatives can be read easily from the saddle.
I've printed the complete set out for Robert. If he gets lost, you'll never hear the end of it.
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Thank you Wilkyboy. The routesheets are perfect. I use sticky backed plastic to encase mine. From Wilko [sic]. Cheap. Also allows the paper to fold more easily than laminating.
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IMPORTANT — POSSIBLE MINOR ROUTE CHANGES
There are several possible diversions along the route. Alwyn has posted to FB and will be checking with the relevant authorities in the morning.
As soon as we know more then we'll let you know — but do expect some possible changes to the routesheets and GPS files. I will also produce a standalone diversion sheet, just in case, so those who have already laminated their sheets don't need to re-do them all!
TBH, I've looked at the possible diversions and it's nothing major — a R @ T instead of L @ T and basically you loop back around to the A1M roundabout and back on course. Adds on 2.3km, but it's a lovely little lane for much of it.
If there are diversions then they will be signposted with LEL arrows.
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IMPORTANT — POSSIBLE MINOR ROUTE CHANGES
There are several possible diversions along the route. Alwyn has posted to FB and will be checking with the relevant authorities in the morning.
I'm sorry - this is my fault. I downloaded the route to my garmins and got them both set up so they wouldn't need to be fiddled with again... :facepalm:
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I'm sorry - this is my fault. I downloaded the route to my garmins and got them both set up so they wouldn't need to be fiddled with again... :facepalm:
;D
TBH, you can stick with the current GPX and just follow the diversion signs when you get there (edit: so long as nobody nicks them ;) )
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TBH, you can stick with the current GPX and just follow the diversion signs when you get there (edit: so long as nobody nicks them ;) )
You are just saying that so you can look smug when you catch up with me despite my 6 hour headstart :demon:
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None of the official GPX tracks have more than 10,000 points. Not even the north and south tracks in the zip. However as above we may be releasing new tracks for some sections depending on what we find out tomorrow.
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I like the route sheets Nick, checked through them at work today and got a local history and geography lesson at the same time - cool. :thumbsup:
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Nick, your route sheet does not match your gpx at Langrick. Should turn right there according to the rout sheet but your gpx turns right further on. I assume the route sheet matches the official; the official gpx matches your route sheet.
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One minor observation: I copied the tracks onto my Etrex 20, then loaded each track to check they were all there. I noticed that when viewed on the map, St Ives is labelled 'Spalding'. Easy enough to fix by editing the waypoint.
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Those route sheets are great, thanks Wilkyboy! I was discussing the official route sheet with Robert Bialek recently and he was having difficulty folding them to be easily readable, as they extend too wide to work within the usual route sheet holders, or even elastic banded onto an arm (my preferred method for dealing with route sheets).
I'm not riding but I had to agree with him. I would have done something very similar myself - well, you've seen my route sheets - so I applaud the effort you've taken. The wilkyboy alternatives can be read easily from the saddle.
I've printed the complete set out for Robert. If he gets lost, you'll never hear the end of it.
Thanks, Mike. Fingers crossed Robert makes it round okay :)
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One minor observation: I copied the tracks onto my Etrex 20, then loaded each track to check they were all there. I noticed that when viewed on the map, St Ives is labelled 'Spalding'. Easy enough to fix by editing the waypoint.
Hmm, that's interesting — I've checked all my routes via St Ives — northbound, southbound, individual stage tracks as well as my "long" tracks — and ALL of them are correct and label St Ives as Spalding.
Do you know which track is labelled contains this waypoint?
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Nick, your route sheet does not match your gpx at Langrick. Should turn right there according to the rout sheet but your gpx turns right further on. I assume the route sheet matches the official; the official gpx matches your route sheet.
Argh — shortest route and all that. And a visit to New York would be nice at this time of year! It's no biggie and will be fixed in the next set, which may be later today when we find out about the diversions — actually, I've updated them now anyway, possible updates to come later today for the diversions.
I am pleased you're checking the route to that level — a bit of peer-review is a Good Thing — thanks Simon :thumbsup: Let me know if you spot anything else.
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Nick, your route sheet does not match your gpx at Langrick. Should turn right there according to the rout sheet but your gpx turns right further on. I assume the route sheet matches the official; the official gpx matches your route sheet.
Argh — shortest route and all that. And a visit to New York would be nice at this time of year! It's no biggie and will be fixed in the next set, which may be later today when we find out about the diversions — actually, I've updated them now anyway, possible updates to come later today for the diversions.
I am pleased you're checking the route to that level — a bit of peer-review is a Good Thing — thanks Simon :thumbsup: Let me know if you spot anything else.
Not only New York, but a Bubble Car museum also! :thumbsup: https://goo.gl/maps/FcHUTFVdqKQ2
I expect that will be of no use in the dark for us 16:00'ers :facepalm:
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Bob, as I understand it from eTrex users then it depends on the model — some models can handle only 500 points per track, some are limited to 10,000 points overall in all tracks on the device added together.
That's just 2 ways of saying the same thing, and it only applies to the older 'C' model Etrexes.
Since there are 18 stages then if you used 500-point tracks, that would be 9,000 points and very close to the device limit.
That wouldn't be a problem, 20 x 500 (=10,000) is perfectly OK on the old models. As are X x 10,000 point tracks on the newer Etrexes. The problem I have found with publishing a link to RWGPS is that there can be a multiplicity of download options there, and its all too easy to select the one that gives more than 10,000 points. Always better to offer a prepared file, and not just a RWGPS link.
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Not only New York, but a Bubble Car museum also! :thumbsup: https://goo.gl/maps/FcHUTFVdqKQ2
I expect that will be of no use in the dark for us 16:00'ers :facepalm:
Nice one! We rode past it on our Arrow, but it was dark, cross-headwind and had just stopped pissing it down and we missed it. I was on the front staring at the distant traffic light in New York wondering if it was ever going to get any closer — you can see it for about EIGHT kilometres, that road is soooo straight and level! The other road is better, simply because there's a single bend that breaks it up ;)
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Bob, as I understand it from eTrex users then it depends on the model — some models can handle only 500 points per track, some are limited to 10,000 points overall in all tracks on the device added together.
That's just 2 ways of saying the same thing, and it only applies to the older 'C' model Etrexes.
Not quite, but I get your point. Noted on the differences in models — I'll file that away for future reference, thanks.
Since there are 18 stages then if you used 500-point tracks, that would be 9,000 points and very close to the device limit.
That wouldn't be a problem, 20 x 500 (=10,000) is perfectly OK on the old models. As are X x 10,000 point tracks on the newer Etrexes. The problem I have found with publishing a link to RWGPS is that there can be a multiplicity of download options there, and its all too easy to select the one that gives more than 10,000 points. Always better to offer a prepared file, and not just a RWGPS link.
Indeed — that's why I usually publish three, sometimes four, different exports — full-GPX, 500-point GPX, and TCX. Sometimes I also publish 500-point GPX WITHOUT waypoints for Edge 200 users who occasionally experience issues with waypoints. The RWGPS link I provide is so that riders can scan thru the route online before setting off — it's easier to scan in RWGPS than to have to load the tracks up in something else, for most users (me included). But I do always export and pre-package my GPS tracks for events.
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One minor observation: I copied the tracks onto my Etrex 20, then loaded each track to check they were all there. I noticed that when viewed on the map, St Ives is labelled 'Spalding'. Easy enough to fix by editing the waypoint.
Hmm, that's interesting — I've checked all my routes via St Ives — northbound, southbound, individual stage tracks as well as my "long" tracks — and ALL of them are correct and label St Ives as Spalding.
Do you know which track is labelled contains this waypoint?
Found it, I think. It's in the 'official' gpx LEL-S7-Spalding-StIves.gpx.
<wpt lat="52.332150" lon="-0.084930"><ele>21.800</ele><name>SPALDING</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
<wpt lat="52.783370" lon="-0.155100"><ele>6.800</ele><name>ST IVES</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
The <name>s are the wrong way round. Spalding should be further north than St Ives.
The equivalent Northbound gpx has them the right way round.
<wpt lat="52.332110" lon="-0.085010"><ele>22.000</ele><name>ST IVES</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
<wpt lat="52.783160" lon="-0.155070"><ele>6.900</ele><name>SPALDING</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
Just checked on my Etrex and there are several St Ives waypoints 130 km away from here, and one 175 km.
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In TCX files, I often get something similar, sometimes it's RWGPS way of saying take the road to/from 'St Ives' but it gets abbreviated, so often I get a cue that comes up with a direction like turn left to $LastTownVisited when it means turn left on to road from $LastTownVisited. There may be something similar in GPX outputs too.
I do not use the Garmin routing engine at all but totally rely on the cue points from RWGPS, that way the Garmin is unable to become confused by routes that have a confluence or similar - or worse still try and route via what it thinks is a better route.... However it also means that I have to always re-drag the route on RWGPS to regenerate the cue points where they have been cleared. Same will also apply to Wahoo users who which to be notified of turns etc on their devices.
My theory with with all GPS devices is thus, there's a hidden set of rules on how they behave and how to interpret what they mean when they beep etc that only comes with own experience or crowd sourced wisdom :thumbsup:
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In TCX files, I often get something similar, sometimes it's RWGPS way of saying take the road to/from 'St Ives' but it gets abbreviated, so often I get a cue that comes up with a direction like turn left to $LastTownVisited when it means turn left on to road from $LastTownVisited. There may be something similar in GPX outputs too.
I do not use the Garmin routing engine at all but totally rely on the cue points from RWGPS, that way the Garmin is unable to become confused by routes that have a confluence or similar - or worse still try and route via what it thinks is a better route.... However it also means that I have to always re-drag the route on RWGPS to regenerate the cue points where they have been cleared. Same will also apply to Wahoo users who which to be notified of turns etc on their devices.
My theory with with all GPS devices is thus, there's a hidden set of rules on how they behave and how to interpret what they mean when they beep etc that only comes with own experience or crowd sourced wisdom :thumbsup:
Yes — I've just looked at this in detail for a Wahoo-using friend. Wahoo does NOT have automatic TBT and so users of such rely on RWGPS's automated ones. For me, though, I DISable the automatic generation of those cue points and insert my own cuepoints to beep when you are near or at a control (on multi-stage routes).
Between us, we're building up a body of knowledge of all these nuances. These days I just follow the routesheet — it's more fun and you actually know where you're going and where you've been.
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Do you know which track is labelled contains this waypoint?
Found it, I think. It's in the 'official' gpx LEL-S7-Spalding-StIves.gpx.
<wpt lat="52.332150" lon="-0.084930"><ele>21.800</ele><name>SPALDING</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
<wpt lat="52.783370" lon="-0.155100"><ele>6.800</ele><name>ST IVES</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
The <name>s are the wrong way round. Spalding should be further north than St Ives.
The equivalent Northbound gpx has them the right way round.
<wpt lat="52.332110" lon="-0.085010"><ele>22.000</ele><name>ST IVES</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
<wpt lat="52.783160" lon="-0.155070"><ele>6.900</ele><name>SPALDING</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
Just checked on my Etrex and there are several St Ives waypoints 130 km away from here, and one 175 km.
Thanks. If new GPXes are issued for diversions later today then I'm sure this will be fixed :thumbsup:
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Nick, your route sheet does not match your gpx at Langrick. Should turn right there according to the rout sheet but your gpx turns right further on. I assume the route sheet matches the official; the official gpx matches your route sheet.
Argh — shortest route and all that. And a visit to New York would be nice at this time of year! It's no biggie and will be fixed in the next set, which may be later today when we find out about the diversions — actually, I've updated them now anyway, possible updates to come later today for the diversions.
I am pleased you're checking the route to that level — a bit of peer-review is a Good Thing — thanks Simon :thumbsup: Let me know if you spot anything else.
No problem - I am an Etrex 30 user but not a pink line follower. I have the track displayed on the map and am creating direct routes between waypoints per turn, from the routesheet. So I have to pore over every turn. Might as well feed back any issues.
Do you know which sections are likely to need to be updated for diversions?
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Do you know which sections are likely to need to be updated for diversions?
Yes — they all seem to be in or near Middleton Tyas, near Scotch Corner. Awaiting news from Alwyn, who's checking with the authorities today.
There's a question about a road-resurface operation near Coxwold, but that appears to be complete, at least insofar as we will be able to pass.
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Do you know which track is labelled contains this waypoint?
Found it, I think. It's in the 'official' gpx LEL-S7-Spalding-StIves.gpx.
<wpt lat="52.332150" lon="-0.084930"><ele>21.800</ele><name>SPALDING</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
<wpt lat="52.783370" lon="-0.155100"><ele>6.800</ele><name>ST IVES</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
The <name>s are the wrong way round. Spalding should be further north than St Ives.
The equivalent Northbound gpx has them the right way round.
<wpt lat="52.332110" lon="-0.085010"><ele>22.000</ele><name>ST IVES</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
<wpt lat="52.783160" lon="-0.155070"><ele>6.900</ele><name>SPALDING</name><sym>Waypoint</sym></wpt>
Just checked on my Etrex and there are several St Ives waypoints 130 km away from here, and one 175 km.
Thanks. If new GPXes are issued for diversions later today then I'm make sure this will be fixed :thumbsup:
Just to be clear, Wilkyboy (and everyone else), this was in the file downloaded from the LEL site (actually from the latest email).
No biggie, no-one will get lost as a result, but it could get a little confusing to an addled brain on Thursday afternoon if you're heading to St Ives and your device tells you you're on course for Spalding (which you've just left).
Now I'm going out on my bike.
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In TCX files, I often get something similar, sometimes it's RWGPS way of saying take the road to/from 'St Ives' but it gets abbreviated, so often I get a cue that comes up with a direction like turn left to $LastTownVisited when it means turn left on to road from $LastTownVisited. There may be something similar in GPX outputs too.
I do not use the Garmin routing engine at all but totally rely on the cue points from RWGPS, that way the Garmin is unable to become confused by routes that have a confluence or similar - or worse still try and route via what it thinks is a better route.... However it also means that I have to always re-drag the route on RWGPS to regenerate the cue points where they have been cleared. Same will also apply to Wahoo users who which to be notified of turns etc on their devices.
My theory with with all GPS devices is thus, there's a hidden set of rules on how they behave and how to interpret what they mean when they beep etc that only comes with own experience or crowd sourced wisdom :thumbsup:
Yes — I've just looked at this in detail for a Wahoo-using friend. Wahoo does NOT have automatic TBT and so users of such rely on RWGPS's automated ones. For me, though, I DISable the automatic generation of those cue points and insert my own cuepoints to beep when you are near or at a control (on multi-stage routes).
Between us, we're building up a body of knowledge of all these nuances. These days I just follow the routesheet — it's more fun and you actually know where you're going and where you've been.
I've re-dragged all of your provided routes so there are cue points for all turns if anyone wants them, it's a shame there isn't a function in RWGPS to auto regenerate the cue (only way I could perhaps do it is to reverse the route twice, but then there is the risk it will not follow the intended route.)
Here's the link to the routes derived from Nick's hard work:
https://ridewithgps.com/events/20664-lel2017#routes/23370555/preview
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In TCX files, I often get something similar, sometimes it's RWGPS way of saying take the road to/from 'St Ives' but it gets abbreviated, so often I get a cue that comes up with a direction like turn left to $LastTownVisited when it means turn left on to road from $LastTownVisited. There may be something similar in GPX outputs too.
I do not use the Garmin routing engine at all but totally rely on the cue points from RWGPS, that way the Garmin is unable to become confused by routes that have a confluence or similar - or worse still try and route via what it thinks is a better route.... However it also means that I have to always re-drag the route on RWGPS to regenerate the cue points where they have been cleared. Same will also apply to Wahoo users who which to be notified of turns etc on their devices.
My theory with with all GPS devices is thus, there's a hidden set of rules on how they behave and how to interpret what they mean when they beep etc that only comes with own experience or crowd sourced wisdom :thumbsup:
Yes — I've just looked at this in detail for a Wahoo-using friend. Wahoo does NOT have automatic TBT and so users of such rely on RWGPS's automated ones. For me, though, I DISable the automatic generation of those cue points and insert my own cuepoints to beep when you are near or at a control (on multi-stage routes).
Between us, we're building up a body of knowledge of all these nuances. These days I just follow the routesheet — it's more fun and you actually know where you're going and where you've been.
I've re-dragged all of your provided routes so there are cue points for all turns if anyone wants them, it's a shame there isn't a function in RWGPS to auto regenerate the cue (only way I could perhaps do it is to reverse the route twice, but then there is the risk it will not follow the intended route.)
Here's the link to the routes derived from Nick's hard work:
https://ridewithgps.com/events/20664-lel2017#routes/23370555/preview
Quick question, as I'm getting a little nervous following this latest discussion. I downloaded Nick's TCX files yesterday. If I use them on a Garmin 820, will I get turn by turn directions? With this talk of cue points, I'm not sure if they are required for the general navigation side, or just for supplementary details.
In any case I'm minded to do a quick check on part of the route over the next couple of days, for additional peace of mind.
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If you have the full Garmin TBT navigation turned off, the only prompts you will get on your Edge 1000 with TCX will be the ones in the cue sheet of RWGPS from memory, so with Nicks originals, I believe you will get:
(https://2-t.imgbox.com/HfyWTa3A.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/HfyWTa3A)
You could do a quick test round the block with your own route to confirm?
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Edge 1000 user. Another TCX/GPX question if I may. Thanks to Wilkyboy for all the hard work putting the files together. I normally do my own, but just haven't had the time, so this is a real god send.
Anyway, TCX or GPX ? Whenever, I've used TCX generated with RWGPS there are just too may cues and it gets too distracting with all the unnecessary prompts, so I tend to use GPX with TBT instructions. However, I like the idea of having prompts appear for info controls, cafes or any other useful info, but whenever I have created a TCX, I delete all the normal cues then add a few that I want, these never get prompted when I'm riding. Any suggestions of why this may be ?
Cheers
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You need to add them as a cue not a POI and also save as TCX. If you are already doing all that, then not sure :) Might be TBT is turned on on your Garmin and overriding the cues.
TBF, if you have something that works for you now, I wouldn't be tempted to change it this close to LEL! :thumbsup:
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One minor observation: I copied the tracks onto my Etrex 20, then loaded each track to check they were all there. I noticed that when viewed on the map, St Ives is labelled 'Spalding'. Easy enough to fix by editing the waypoint.
Fixed on the website.
I added the control waypoints when we first loaded the tracks way back when. I caught at the time that they were the wrong way round on the St Ives - Spalding north track and corrected that. I missed the south track. Probably the effect of staring at the website route pages I was creating in Chinese Traditional, Chinese Simplified and Japanese plus the other languages; led to tired eyes and brain at the time. There's 152 route pages across all the combinations of legs and languages.
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Edge 1000 user. Another TCX/GPX question if I may. Thanks to Wilkyboy for all the hard work putting the files together. I normally do my own, but just haven't had the time, so this is a real god send.
Anyway, TCX or GPX ? Whenever, I've used TCX generated with RWGPS there are just too may cues and it gets too distracting with all the unnecessary prompts, so I tend to use GPX with TBT instructions. However, I like the idea of having prompts appear for info controls, cafes or any other useful info, but whenever I have created a TCX, I delete all the normal cues then add a few that I want, these never get prompted when I'm riding. Any suggestions of why this may be ?
Cheers
My TCX long will do you fine. TCX short also.
FWIW, I NEVER produce TCX files with auto-cues — the feature to delete all the cues from an RWGPS track was because me and another guy both asked them at the same time for the feature and within a couple of days it was in! That's why I'm happy to pay my dues to RWGPS :)
As to why they're not working — they must be cues, NOT POIs. AND you must export and use the TCX. If you hit those correctly then it should work every time.
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Quick question, as I'm getting a little nervous following this latest discussion. I downloaded Nick's TCX files yesterday. If I use them on a Garmin 820, will I get turn by turn directions? With this talk of cue points, I'm not sure if they are required for the general navigation side, or just for supplementary details.
In any case I'm minded to do a quick check on part of the route over the next couple of days, for additional peace of mind.
Use any of the GPX files, preferably NOT the 500-point simplified ones, or the TCX files and your 820 should handle TBT directions automatically. If there's a TCX available, I would always choose that over GPX, as there do seem to be differences on SOME devices.
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I've re-dragged all of your provided routes so there are cue points for all turns if anyone wants them, it's a shame there isn't a function in RWGPS to auto regenerate the cue (only way I could perhaps do it is to reverse the route twice, but then there is the risk it will not follow the intended route.)
Here's the link to the routes derived from Nick's hard work:
https://ridewithgps.com/events/20664-lel2017#routes/23370555/preview
Nice one, Jibbers. FWIW I did try the reverse-route thing, but that does NOT regenerate all the auto-cues in RWGPS. Waggling the dots, or tracing the path to create a new one are the only ways to do this.
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DIVERSION GPS ROUTES AND UPDATED ROUTESHEETS NOW AVAILABLE
The official GPX files and routesheets on the LEL website (https://londonedinburghlondon.com/route/) are now updated with the diversion after Middleton Tyas.
Mine are also updated (http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/) — and I've written a brief side-by-side list of changes, in case anyone just wants to scribble on the routesheet they've already printed.
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I've re-dragged all of your provided routes so there are cue points for all turns if anyone wants them, it's a shame there isn't a function in RWGPS to auto regenerate the cue (only way I could perhaps do it is to reverse the route twice, but then there is the risk it will not follow the intended route.)
Here's the link to the routes derived from Nick's hard work:
https://ridewithgps.com/events/20664-lel2017#routes/23370555/preview
Nice one, Jibbers. FWIW I did try the reverse-route thing, but that does NOT regenerate all the auto-cues in RWGPS. Waggling the dots, or tracing the path to create a new one are the only ways to do this.
I've update mine with the same diversion to Barton for N and S in case anyone is using them.
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Hmm. With the division via Barton it seems shorter to then go via Aldbrough St John and rejoin the route at Forcett.
https://goo.gl/maps/2A8PPT4CN5M2
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Hmm. With the division via Barton it seems shorter to then go via Aldbrough St John and rejoin the route at Forcett.
https://goo.gl/maps/2A8PPT4CN5M2
That is a nice-looking alternative :thumbsup:
However, this close to the event then it's not possible for the organiser to sanction such a big change. Already there is a volunteer driving across from a control to put up LEL direction arrows through the simple diversion. To make such a big change to the route as yours would require the new route to be ridden and risk-assessed before it could be offered to all riders — and that's simply not possible so close to the event, I think. And we're talking about saving only 800m.
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That is a nice-looking alternative :thumbsup:
However, this close to the event then it's not possible for the organiser to sanction such a big change. Already there is a volunteer driving across from a control to put up LEL direction arrows through the simple diversion. To make such a big change to the route as yours would require the new route to be ridden and risk-assessed before it could be offered to all riders — and that's simply not possible so close to the event, I think. And we're talking about saving only 800m.
Indeed.
Doesn't stop me going off piste, tho!
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That is a nice-looking alternative :thumbsup:
However, this close to the event then it's not possible for the organiser to sanction such a big change. Already there is a volunteer driving across from a control to put up LEL direction arrows through the simple diversion. To make such a big change to the route as yours would require the new route to be ridden and risk-assessed before it could be offered to all riders — and that's simply not possible so close to the event, I think. And we're talking about saving only 800m.
Indeed.
Doesn't stop me going off piste, tho!
I'm tempted to join you ;)
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I doubt Daniel wants to send 1500 riders down Doctor's Lane into Aldbrough! It's narrow and there's a tight gravelly turn.
He doesn't need to know, though :)
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I doubt Daniel wants to send 1500 riders down Doctor's Lane into Aldbrough! It's narrow and there's a tight gravelly turn.
He doesn't need to know, though :)
Plus the potholes in the flooded section of gravel at that turn. Yorkshire Gallop avoided it earlier in the year.
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What there's no gravel trap this year? Swiz!
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I doubt Daniel wants to send 1500 riders down Doctor's Lane into Aldbrough! It's narrow and there's a tight gravelly turn.
Plus the potholes in the flooded section of gravel at that turn. Yorkshire Gallop avoided it earlier in the year.
Ah, yes, bringing us nicely back to my point that it would have to be actually ridden in order to be risk-assessed for 1500 participants passing that way at all times of night and day :P
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What there's no gravel trap this year? Swiz!
N8-ALT, Simon — I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for there ;D
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I doubt Daniel wants to send 1500 riders down Doctor's Lane into Aldbrough! It's narrow and there's a tight gravelly turn.
Plus the potholes in the flooded section of gravel at that turn. Yorkshire Gallop avoided it earlier in the year.
Ah, yes, bringing us nicely back to my point that it would have to be actually ridden in order to be risk-assessed for 1500 participants passing that way at all times of night and day :P
I've ridden it! That was my risk assessment ;D
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I've ridden it! That was my risk assessment ;D
;D
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It wouldn't be the first time this year that I have used the A66 for audax purposes, albeit I was going in the opposite direction and late at night.
I think that would fail any risk assessment though.
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Thanks Wilkyboy for all your work on the route sheet and GPX files.
I remember reading (but can't remember where) that the GPX files can be stored on the memory card in an Etrex 30. How do I do this so that I can access them? Just tried but can't see the file when I switch on the unit.
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Barnard Castle to Middleton Tyas has different routes North(N7) and South (S2) - is this deliberate?
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Barnard Castle to Middleton Tyas has different routes North(N7) and South (S2) - is this deliberate?
Yes and this was also the case in 2013. I don't know the reasoning as to why, but will be happy to follow the different options out and back.
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Barnard Castle to Middleton Tyas has different routes North(N7) and South (S2) - is this deliberate?
Middleton Tyas itself has a one-way system. Otherwise both should follow exactly the same route. What's the difference you're seeing?
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Thanks Wilkyboy for all your work on the route sheet and GPX files.
I remember reading (but can't remember where) that the GPX files can be stored on the memory card in an Etrex 30. How do I do this so that I can access them? Just tried but can't see the file when I switch on the unit.
You're welcome Steve.
As to your Etrex question — I'm sorry, I don't know the answer, I have never used one. Is the memory card new? Has it been set up with the necessary Garmin directory/folder structure? And are you putting the GPX files in the correct directory/folder?
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Will try setting up directory structure
Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
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Barnard Castle to Middleton Tyas has different routes North(N7) and South (S2) - is this deliberate?
Middleton Tyas itself has a one-way system. Otherwise both should follow exactly the same route. What's the difference you're seeing?
That should have read 'Barnard Castle to Middleton in Teesdale'. GPX tracks from LEL website.
N7 routes via B6278 on north side of the Tees, while S2 routes via B6277 on the south side! Very little difference in distance/ascent/descent, just curious...
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Barnard Castle to Middleton Tyas has different routes North(N7) and South (S2) - is this deliberate?
Middleton Tyas itself has a one-way system. Otherwise both should follow exactly the same route. What's the difference you're seeing?
That should have read 'Barnard Castle to Middleton in Teesdale'. GPX tracks from LEL website.
N7 routes via B6278 on north side of the Tees, while S2 routes via B6277 on the south side! Very little difference in distance/ascent/descent, just curious...
Ah, yes. That has been discussed elsewhere — both routes are nice, but you get great views on the northbound, while on the southbound you will be slower and more tired and the other road is then much nicer.
You also get to see Barnard Castle itself high up on your left while waiting for the traffic lights to change :thumbsup:
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Thanks for that, didn't notice the difference in 2013 :thumbsup:
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This was new for 2013, previously I think it was all on the main road up to Yad Moss.
One of the few places I saw rain that year.
There, jinxed.
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Will try setting up directory structure
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Don't know if you've got this to work, but on my 30x's SD card it works by creating a Garmin directory, a GPX directory inside that and then putting the GPX files in there.
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I remember reading (but can't remember where) that the GPX files can be stored on the memory card in an Etrex 30. How do I do this so that I can access them? Just tried but can't see the file when I switch on the unit.
The GPS memory and the mSD card have parallel directory structures. So you can put anything in either location and the GPS will find it.
On the E20/E30 GPX files have to be in [Device or card]/Garmin/GPX/
(Warning: Edge users this is NOT the same! You have the /NewFiles/ directory. Warning Etrex users ignore this line!!)
However from experience with more than one Etrex I would strongly recommend putting your GPX files on the device memory, not on the card. This is because files on the card can occasionally 'go missing' ie not found and synched on boot-up, presumably due to a temporary bad contact on the card. Stored in GPS memory, this isn't an issue.
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Thanks bobw and frankly frankie. Got it working.
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I have transferred my 6 GPX files (created my own) to an Etrex 30 with a total of 14000+ track points and 2 of the Humber diversion files. Largest file has 2872 track points. I intend to follow the purple track rather than "Navigate".
What could go wrong?
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The link to download the routesheet on the LEL site simply downloads the routesheet for the diversion.
Is there a link to the whole route?
[Somewhat panicky]
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Just had a look and it's all there if you open the file.
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The link to download the routesheet on the LEL site simply downloads the routesheet for the diversion.
Is there a link to the whole route?
[Somewhat panicky]
It has "DIVERSION" in the name so you can tell if you're printing the updated routesheet or the original. Opening it will show you it's the complete routesheet with the diversion clearly marked in N6 and S3.
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Ah, now I feel pretty stupid :facepalm: ;D
Thank you indeed.
Now to find a printer...
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Ah, now I feel pretty stupid :facepalm: ;D
Thank you indeed.
Now to find a printer...
Probably not as stupid as I felt when I thought I'd stripped the lock ring thread on my new hub the night before last. Non standardised thread sizes. >:(
However the threads are intact and a correct sized lockring is arriving today. The other side of this hub has a freewheel mount but I've put a bailout fixed sprocket on there with the added security of loctite. Got both brakes and I don't tend to leg brake so it should be good. I ran my pompino without a lockring for years with no issues.
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The other side of this hub has a freewheel mount but I've put a bailout fixed sprocket on there with the added security of loctite. Got both brakes and I don't tend to leg brake so it should be good. I ran my pompino without a lockring for years with no issues.
You'll be fine. My Burls, on which to date I've claimed 120 fixed gear points, has never had a lockring.