[LEL17] LEL Route, GPX, Route Sheets.

[jsabine]

The good thing about GPX tracks is that even if they're "wrong" they will always lead you (eventually) to the next control.

Unless they break the 10,000 point limit, in which case they can abandon you in the middle of nowherethe moors.

[Kangaroocourt]

Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated).  Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where?  All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.

[jsabine]

Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated).  Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where?  All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.

Yes

[wilkyboy]

It looks like there has been a node-reduction in the offical GPX files, AFTER they were exported from RWGPS.

There hasn't. The official files have come straight from ridewithgps, unaltered.

EDIT - it would interesting to see where you've found the line going off route by a few metres, because I've never encountered that when I've ridden with my husband, who uses a Mio to navigate.

Hmm, that's very interesting, Alwyn —

• I exported some tracks from your event and compared them to the ones provided on the LEL website and mine are slightly larger — that appears to be a formatting difference inside the GPX, nothing major.
   The tracks from both sources have exactly the same number of trackpoints
• I have exported some tracks from your event, and some from my event, and the ones from mine come out at nearly twice the size as yours, in spite of them being exactly the same course!  On checking the number of trackpoints, for some reason mine have over three times as many!

The only reasons I can think for the difference is that either the number of dots are used to plot the route affect the number of trackpoints in the export (I'll be testing this); or else that's one of the "benefits" of being a Premium member?

Hmm, so, for some reason, the GPX files exported from my event are technically more precise, but absolutely not for the reason I gave. 

My apologies, I did not mean to suggest anything or mislead anyone 

It's interesting enough to warrant further investigation, just because.  However, it is nothing to worry about in the next 10 days.

As for examples, they are there, but nowhere near as big as when using down-sampled GPXes, or ones exported at 500 points.  False off-course warnings seem to be a "feature" of Garmin Edge devices only — all other devices seem to be fairly tolerant.

[Kangaroocourt]

Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated).  Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where?  All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.

Yes

 

[wilkyboy]

Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated).  Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where?  All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.

Yes

Absolutely yes — the ones on the LEL website are perfect, they are the Gold Standard 

Any other files out there are for the tiny minority of GPS geeks interested in unimportant and inconsequential differences in the detail.  ALL the files will get you there, wherever you got them from

[Kangaroocourt]

Here's a simple question from a simple bloke that doesn't understand the half of previous conversations (so an equally simple answer would be much appreciated).  Are the gpx files (and route sheet) on the official LEL site OK or should I be downloading something else and if so what and from where?  All I'm trying to get is the same sort of thing usually found in the files posted with the AUK calendar events. I'm using a garmin 810 and a touring plus btw. TIA.

Yes

Absolutely yes — the ones on the LEL website are perfect, they are the Gold Standard 

Any other files out there are for the tiny minority of GPS geeks interested in unimportant and inconsequential differences in the detail.  ALL the files will get you there, wherever you got them from

 

[aidan.f]

Back to route sheets, All 14  pages + 4 HB diversion printed out, wondering whether to laminate (will await a later weather forecast). Like the local POI's  - Thanks Nick, excellent work!

[jochta]

Back to route sheets, All 14  pages + 4 HB diversion printed out, wondering whether to laminate (will await a later weather forecast). Like the local POI's  - Thanks Nick, excellent work!

Waterproof paper - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Toughprint-Waterproof-Paper-25-Sheets/dp/B01M8GNOQH

[wilkyboy]

Back to route sheets, All 14  pages + 4 HB diversion printed out, wondering whether to laminate (will await a later weather forecast). Like the local POI's  - Thanks Nick, excellent work!

A brevet bag is a pretty good fit for A6, if you have an old one lying around from a recent event. 

I use waterproof paper — but you can't seem to get anything cost-effective in the UK at the moment; I'm on a box that's nearly a year old and halfway gone.  I have experience of bags, acetate and waterproof paper, and the waterproof paper is the best without question, because it doesn't reflect the headtorch at night like a bag and it doesn't get shiny in the rain like acetate; it's also a lot easier to handle, as it's just paper that happens to be waterproof.

And you're welcome, Aidan 

[bobw]

They are, in the detail, more precise, because they haven't been "down-sampled". 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I created the tracks in ridewithgps, then downloaded them from ridewithgps. Did you create yours using different software?

Will the official gpx files work fine with eTrex devices? I've heard that ridewithgps puts huge numbers of points in the gpx files, by default. I've had my eTrex 30x strand me on a 200k when the route just stopped, but an edge 800 was fine with the exact same gpx.

[wilkyboy]

Will the official gpx files work fine with eTrex devices? I've heard that ridewithgps puts huge numbers of points in the gpx files, by default. I've had my eTrex 30x strand me on a 200k when the route just stopped, but an edge 800 was fine with the exact same gpx.

Bob, as I understand it from eTrex users then it depends on the model — some models can handle only 500 points per track, some are limited to 10,000 points overall in all tracks on the device added together.  Since there are 18 stages then if you used 500-point tracks, that would be 9,000 points and very close to the device limit.  Someone with more experience of eTrex limitations will hopefully be along soon to confirm that as true or dispel that as myth.

I have not done a node count on every file from the official set, but I am certain the official set (and my own full-GPX set) comes to more than 10,000 points total — the first stage alone is over 2000 trackpoints.  You might be better served using the 500-point set from my webpage here — http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/ — although I would strongly urge you to load them up and make sure you don't get any issues and that ALL of the files are present and can be loaded and viewed on the map.

[wilkyboy]

UPDATE — I have added "long" tracks to the ZIP files on my page.   

These long tracks cover three stages each, giving six tracks of about 200-250km each.  If you don't fancy the idea of having to load up a new track as you leave each control then these may be for you. 

I have added my usual 20-10-5-2-1-0 km-to-go beeps to the TCX files as well — those who've used my TCXes in the past will be familiar; the beeps can be a bit "Marmite" in nature.  My individual TCX tracks don't include the beeps.

Also, don't forget to clear out any old tracks and activities from your device before you start your LEL campaign — Garmins in particular have a nasty habit of crashing mid-course if they're "a bit full" 

[bobw]

Bob, as I understand it from eTrex users then it depends on the model — some models can handle only 500 points per track, some are limited to 10,000 points overall in all tracks on the device added together.  Since there are 18 stages then if you used 500-point tracks, that would be 9,000 points and very close to the device limit.  Someone with more experience of eTrex limitations will hopefully be along soon to confirm that as true or dispel that as myth.

Thanks, you inspired me to do some more digging. For eTrex 30/20 and 30x/20x those limits are here https://support.garmin.com/faqSearch/en-GB/faq/content/Sf7jHKwP2V53j6MoP8AeH8 and the relevant limits seem to be:

200 saved tracks
10,000 points per track

I'd hope the official tracks aren't likely to exceed that. A 200k track from RWGPS might well, from the sounds of it.

You might be better served using the 500-point set from my webpage here

That might well be the most convenient option.

[jsabine]

200 saved tracks
10,000 points per track

I'd hope the official tracks aren't likely to exceed that. A 200k track from RWGPS might well, from the sounds of it.

IM(limited)E, RWGPS tracks seem to truncate around c280km because of the 10,000 points limit.

[wilkyboy]

200 saved tracks
10,000 points per track

I'd hope the official tracks aren't likely to exceed that. A 200k track from RWGPS might well, from the sounds of it.

IM(limited)E, RWGPS tracks seem to truncate around c280km because of the 10,000 points limit.

That's good info both, thanks.

Yes, John, now that you mention it, PhilW did mention to me that 10,000 points is some sort of "magic number" internal to Garmins.  Utterly ridiculous given the amount of computing power available within these devices, but hey-ho.  And my experience is definitely of long tracks silently "going to sleep" after 300-400km — turn-by-turn stops beeping and suddenly you find yourself off-route and lost.

[Delph Cyclist]

Those route sheets are great, thanks Wilkyboy!  I was discussing the official route sheet with Robert Bialek recently and he was having difficulty folding them to be easily readable, as they extend too wide to work within the usual route sheet holders, or even elastic banded onto an arm (my preferred method for dealing with route sheets). 

I'm not riding but I had to agree with him.  I would have done something very similar myself -  well, you've seen my route sheets - so I applaud the effort you've taken.  The wilkyboy alternatives can be read easily from the saddle.

I've printed the complete set out for Robert.  If he gets lost, you'll never hear the end of it.

[Graeme]

Thank you Wilkyboy. The routesheets are perfect. I use sticky backed plastic to encase mine. From Wilko [sic]. Cheap. Also allows the paper to fold more easily than laminating.

[wilkyboy]

IMPORTANT — POSSIBLE MINOR ROUTE CHANGES

There are several possible diversions along the route.  Alwyn has posted to FB and will be checking with the relevant authorities in the morning. 

As soon as we know more then we'll let you know — but do expect some possible changes to the routesheets and GPS files.  I will also produce a standalone diversion sheet, just in case, so those who have already laminated their sheets don't need to re-do them all!

TBH, I've looked at the possible diversions and it's nothing major — a R @ T instead of L @ T and basically you loop back around to the A1M roundabout and back on course.  Adds on 2.3km, but it's a lovely little lane for much of it.

If there are diversions then they will be signposted with LEL arrows.

[inappropriate_bike]

IMPORTANT — POSSIBLE MINOR ROUTE CHANGES

There are several possible diversions along the route.  Alwyn has posted to FB and will be checking with the relevant authorities in the morning. 

I'm sorry - this is my fault. I downloaded the route to my garmins and got them both set up so they wouldn't need to be fiddled with again... 

[wilkyboy]

I'm sorry - this is my fault. I downloaded the route to my garmins and got them both set up so they wouldn't need to be fiddled with again... 

 

TBH, you can stick with the current GPX and just follow the diversion signs when you get there (edit: so long as nobody nicks them )

[inappropriate_bike]

TBH, you can stick with the current GPX and just follow the diversion signs when you get there (edit: so long as nobody nicks them )

You are just saying that so you can look smug when you catch up with me despite my 6 hour headstart 

[Phil W]

None of the official GPX tracks have more than 10,000 points. Not even the north and south tracks in the zip.   However as above we may be releasing new tracks for some sections depending on what we find out tomorrow.

[LMT]

I like the route sheets Nick, checked through them at work today and got a local history and geography lesson at the same time - cool.

[simonp]

Nick, your route sheet does not match your gpx at Langrick. Should turn right there according to the rout sheet but your gpx turns right further on. I assume the route sheet matches the official; the official gpx matches your route sheet.