Author Topic: [LEL17] Is £300+ Good value?  (Read 8919 times)

[LEL17] Is £300+ Good value?
« on: 28 September, 2016, 08:17:22 pm »
At least a couple of people on other topics have mentioned the cost is good value. As with most people money is tight at present and I'm no sure I can justify spending the cost of entry to spend 3 nights on an airbed in school gyms or village halls. The challenge appeals, it's the cost that puts me off. I would be grateful to anybody who has experienced the LEL and could tell me what I'm missing.

Thank you.

Chris S

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #1 on: 28 September, 2016, 08:41:00 pm »
Leaving aside the whole "cycling thing", and standard of accommodation - if you can find a way of spending £300 on four day's holiday that you'd prefer to do - then do that.

Including the "cycling thing", and standard of accommodation, is it good value for a 1400km all-inclusive audax experience? Er, yeah - almost certainly.

Pay your money - take your choice.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #2 on: 28 September, 2016, 08:49:35 pm »
Yes, it is an excellent value for money. It's not about spending 3 nights (well, actually 4 nights for most of us) on an airbed. It's about putting aside your busy life for 5 days, I will even dare to say 5 relaxing days,  where  you will not have to think about anything except riding your bicycle.  Hundreds of volunteers will take care of all the down to earth details for you.  This is what I call Luxury, better than sleeping in a 5 stars hotel! Of course, you could spend 5 days touring on your own for cheaper than £300,  but you would still have to think about where/what to eat, where/when to sleep, and so on. In my view, LEL have been the most mentally relaxing experience I have had for many years!

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #3 on: 28 September, 2016, 08:59:07 pm »
If cash is scarce then 300 is a lot of dough.
And let's face it, LEL is a luxury spend, it's 300 of disposable income that folk are prepared to spend on a recreational activity.
We all know the reality of our budget, so we make decisions.

Looking at it from another angle - the amount of time and effort that goes into putting these kind of events on is enormous. And that's people working behind the scenes on and off for a few years before anybody's even turned a crank! Then come the volunteers during the event. This is all big investment of time and endeavour. Without it - the event doesn't happen.

Imagine what the cost would be if all organizers and volunteers got paid for their 'time'. Even a small amount! [Maybe some do, but I'm not aware of volunteers during the actual event getting money for time spent].

As the Americans are found of saying [and I rather like the expression myself] - go figure :-)
Garry Broad

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #4 on: 28 September, 2016, 09:03:01 pm »
Go cycling somewere for 5days sometime,  i bet your spend nearly as much!!!!
As others have said LEL is good value.

Phil W

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #5 on: 28 September, 2016, 09:09:22 pm »
£319 for a life time of good memories and new friends from around the World? Memories you'll want to talk about as often as you're allowed? I'd say that's represents excellent value.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #6 on: 28 September, 2016, 09:13:59 pm »
The airbed's an interesting place to start when looking at the price of LEL.

In 2013 each airbed cost me £6.22. I couldn't afford to buy enough for the event, so two volunteers spent much of the event deflating beds, shipping them between controls and reinflating them. In 2017 they only cost £4.50 and I've been able to buy enough to go around this time. There are in fact two airbeds per rider, but the cost per rider is £4.50. Plus, say 10p towards the pump that blows them up. £4.60. They need storing but happily we were loaned land onto which we put a storage container. That cost us about £1,500 to buy, have delivered and repaint. So altogether it works out at about £10 per rider for beds.

You've also got the volunteer who blows them up. Volunteers aren't cheap. The market for volunteers is surprisingly competitive, and as I discovered in 2013, spending a week of holiday doing manual labour for free is a tough sell. Other events treat their volunteers better. This time each volunteer costs LEL about £120 for food, clothing, travel expenses and small treats. That works out at around £40 per rider.

Riders eat a lot. The unexpected extra food bills in 2013 nearly caused us to lose money. The event is also too big to cater without professional help, which most schools expect anyway as a condition of letting their properties to us. The food budget is £3 per rider, per visit. The total catering cost, including staff to cook, serve and clean up, is £6 per rider, per visit, or £120 total.

Hiring the venues works out at around £40 per rider.

Already that's around £205 per rider.

I spend about £8k over the four years travelling to meetings and checking the route. Barriers are another £8k. That's another tenner per rider. And afterwards there's a long tail of expenses that go towards running a proper event to a professional standard.

At the moment we have a budgeted surplus of about 4%. Any seriously nasty shocks will cause us to run cap in hand to AUK. But AUK have seen the budget and they're happy with our approach to organising. I'm confident all will be well but I cannot predict the future and we could be surprised by something right up until the last day of the event.

LEL is good value insofar as the money you pay us goes entirely towards making the event happen. Whether or not the event is something that people want to take part is another matter. But you can be confident that LEL is the price it is, because that's how much stuff costs.


Chris S

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #7 on: 28 September, 2016, 09:28:55 pm »
£319 for a life time of good memories and new friends from around the World? Memories you'll want to talk about as often as you're allowed? I'd say that's represents excellent value.

You're assuming that's going to be the outcome. It could be four days of gale-force driven rain and diarrhoea-ridden hell. Audax is like that - you pay a sum of money to cover n-days subsistence, and after that - it's in the lap of the gods.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #8 on: 28 September, 2016, 09:30:17 pm »
Nicely summarised Alwyn. - No one is doing it for the money, if you want to question 'value' go and ask a commercial event organiser... but don't expect such a straight answer!

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #9 on: 28 September, 2016, 09:35:06 pm »
You're assuming that's going to be the outcome. It could be four days of gale-force driven rain and diarrhoea-ridden hell. Audax is like that - you pay a sum of money to cover n-days subsistence, and after that - it's in the lap of the gods.

Amen. I received a book transcript from a foreign rider a few weeks ago. He'd spent a fortune getting LEL2013, packed at Market Rasen because he blew his wad keeping up with the fastest riders, then spent as much again booking the next flight home because he didn't care for London.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #10 on: 28 September, 2016, 10:06:26 pm »
LEL is what it is - riding a bike lots for a few days on a pretty route with a bunch of other equally cycling obsessed weirdos, punctuated by school dinners and naps on air mattresses in gyms. There's no secret ingredient and alwyn above has been very up front about what it costs to make it all happen. Needless to say, no one's getting rich. We all make a personal decision on whether the price of entry is affordable and worth it to ourselves, I'm not sure anyone else can help you with that.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #11 on: 28 September, 2016, 10:12:23 pm »
It could be four days of gale-force driven rain and diarrhoea-ridden hell. Audax is like that -

It's when things are not going so well I really start to struggle :-)
Garry Broad

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #12 on: 28 September, 2016, 10:24:12 pm »
Here is the finance man just chipping in ... NOBODY in the team .. whether those  in the 2 years getting the ground work sorted or the volunteers handling  the frantic time of registration and the 5 days of riding ,, is making money from their efforts. It really does cost that much to put on the event that you will always remember.

 Why do we do it ...

I can only comment from a personal basis ...... to give back to the audax community my thanks for the pleasure that I have had for the last 10 years due to the efforts of all organisers, volunteers etc on those rides that I have ridden. Pay back time for me.

But it is £319 .. so it becomes a question of priorities  .. is it the best way to spend £319 ... we can not answer that for you .. but if you do ride all of us will do our best to give you an unforgettable  time.

If all volunteers were paid even the minimum wage ( never mind our market value .. what ever that is )  I hate to think what the entry fee would be .

I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #13 on: 29 September, 2016, 07:22:19 am »
Thank you, to all of you who replied. Special thanks to Alwyn for the breakdown and summary of costs, especally when you must be very busy at the moment. Not only that thank you for the time and the massive effort to actually organise the whole event. Thanks Also to Fidgetbuzz in support of Alwyn.

Thank you to Von Broad for your balance

  Hundreds of volunteers will take care of all the down to earth details for you.  This is what I call Luxury, better than sleeping in a 5 stars hotel!

 Hmmmm. Much as I like to sleep on an airbed, given the choice after 300k's I would chose the five star, or the Premier Inn or the Travellodge.



Go cycling somewere for 5days sometime,  i bet your spend nearly as much!!!!
.
I cycled to Istanbul last summer, admittedly I did spend a little over £300 getting there but it was more than 5 days of cycling.

Can I convince my better half.....

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #14 on: 29 September, 2016, 09:00:17 am »
Dakkar, this may be a daft question, but do you have Huskies?

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #15 on: 29 September, 2016, 09:11:05 am »
Even for those on a tight budget I suggest the entry fee should really be quite a way down the list of factors for deciding whether to do LEL.  Far higher should be "can I realistically complete the ride" and "will I enjoy it"!

Of course there are other expenses, particularly for those who need to travel to London, but they are outside the control of the organisers, and with LEL you don't have the cost of completing the qualifying rides as you do with PBP.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #16 on: 29 September, 2016, 10:26:57 am »
When I looked at LEL, I have had to consider the price as well as a number of other factors. We (and it was a joint decision) came to the conclusion that I would not ride for two reasons. Firstly and most importantly, I didn't think with my limited experience that I was ready for it. I might be able to complete it but would I enjoy it? Secondly the cost. I fully appreciate that the entry fee is justified, and I don't have an issue with that, but when we factored in the other costs, two or possibly three nights in a hotel, travel and meals, we could easily double it.

Can I just say that one thing that would have helped is registration on Sunday morning. If that were possible we would save the cost of an overnight stay in London for two.

My wife and I have volunteered to help out at one of the controls. That way we can be part of the event and, hopefully at least, make a contribution to it's smooth running. I am not expecting to get rich, of course I appreciate it doesn't work like that, we will do it as part of our annual holiday. It's something different, maybe I can help others. In a little over two years time I would like to be ready to ride PBP and I am pretty sure I will be glad of the help.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #17 on: 29 September, 2016, 11:38:29 am »
Dakkar, this may be a daft question, but do you have Huskies?

Alwyn, this is a forum. There are no daft questions.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #18 on: 29 September, 2016, 12:28:03 pm »
Just daft answers?  :P

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #19 on: 29 September, 2016, 03:50:53 pm »
I read the title of this thread and was actually disgusted that someone could ask that question.  Of course it is good value.  I rode in 2013 and was flabbergasted by the sheer scale of the operation, the level of organisation and the quality of the facilities! When you compare it to staying in even basic accommodation elsewhere, buying your own food (And having it available at any time of day or night), having bicycle mechanics available, having someone to carry your bag for you and seeing a cheery face greet you when you get to the controls I think it's money well spent.

You have to bear in mind that in 2013 during LEL I spent no money.  No fuel, no food costs, no accommodation costs, no bus fares, no cinema tickets, no pub meals, no beer, no treats.

On LEL everything is provided.  I've just been totting up how much money I've spent over the last 5 days just living, getting to work and entertaining myself.  OK it didn't come to £300, but it's a significant proportion.I can't think of many events/trips/holidays (whatever you want to call it)where you get to see so much and actually save money that you would ordinarily have parted with.

I'll be there in 2017 knowing that whatever the charge ends up being it will be worth it.

If you don't want to pay then don't ride, but don't insult the organisers by implying it isn't good value..

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #20 on: 29 September, 2016, 05:26:15 pm »
Were I fit enough to do it I'd be delighted to fork out the money and sleep in bus shelters.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

redfalo

  • known as Olaf in the real world
    • Cycling Intelligence
Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #21 on: 29 September, 2016, 05:35:25 pm »
If cash is scarce then 300 is a lot of dough.
And let's face it, LEL is a luxury spend, it's 300 of disposable income that folk are prepared to spend on a recreational activity.
We all know the reality of our budget, so we make decisions.

Looking at it from another angle - the amount of time and effort that goes into putting these kind of events on is enormous. And that's people working behind the scenes on and off for a few years before anybody's even turned a crank! Then come the volunteers during the event. This is all big investment of time and endeavour. Without it - the event doesn't happen.

Imagine what the cost would be if all organizers and volunteers got paid for their 'time'. Even a small amount!

This really nails it.

Moreover, if value for money is the key concern, it's probably better to invest the 300 quid in the stock market than spending it on a pasttime.
If you can't convince, confuse.

https://cycling-intelligence.com/ - my blog on cycling, long distances and short ones

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #22 on: 29 September, 2016, 05:38:00 pm »
To be clear, I think asking why LEL costs £319 is a perfectly valid question. And I'm happy to answer because I can account for the cost and explain why I've taken LEL in this direction since I took over in 2009.

Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #23 on: 29 September, 2016, 05:45:14 pm »
To be fair, most 'commercial' events use volunteers too. The Tough Mudder series of events employ huge teams of volunteers.

As I said before, volunteers are not free labour. To entice people to take part you have to feed them, put them up, transport them and generally make a bit of a fuss of them. And quite right too! LEL is a much an experience for them as it is the rider. Other events look after their volunteers betters, making it much harder for me to recruit them.

The feedback from 2013 was unequivocal. The riders did not pay their way fully, and the slack was picked up by volunteers paying their own train fare, working like dogs and sleeping in dormitories with riders. The riders enjoyed the event rather more than the volunteers did. But without the volunteers, the event simply wouldn't happen. This explains most of the price increase - better conditions for volunteers and more professional support so volunteers can focus on looking after riders.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Is £300+ Good value?
« Reply #24 on: 29 September, 2016, 06:05:39 pm »
To be clear, I think asking why LEL costs £319 is a perfectly valid question. And I'm happy to answer because I can account for the cost and explain why I've taken LEL in this direction since I took over in 2009.

I also think that asking whether it is good value from an objective rider's perspective, compared to other leisure activities and/or bike events is a reasonable question, and one that is perhaps very separate.

One can weigh up both aspects:
- is the organising team spending our cash wisely?
- could I get a better experience for similar money?
[e.g. one might compare smaller 1000km+ events, or touring holidays, or fully supported events like the Ride Across Britain thingy. All have their pros and cons in pure enjoyment-vs-dollars terms]


I think many answers here are mixing the two up.
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles