New university academic year & covid...

[Cudzoziemiec]

In terms of teaching styles, isn't it going to be more of a problem for the current intake, who are going to have to adapt to something new mid-course? And by the same token, as next year will be experimental in some ways, it might make sense for new intake to defer for a year (or more) while the systems, teachers, accommodation and so on all settle down. It's going to vary, obviously, by individual students' characters whether they lose motivation this way – a gap year is hardly a radical idea.

[S2L]

I don't have any sympathy for the concept of reduced fees. If students want to pay less fees, they should go to a lesser institution that charges less.

£9,250 is already a reduced fee and we are operating on a shoestring and if sounds too much, then their parents shouldn't have voted Tories (and then voted them again)... so I have zero sympathy.

As for deferring... yes, you can defer, and what are you going to do for 12 months? Playstation? Netflix? In the meantime losing skills and then entering University the following year less prepared and at risk of failing or graduating with less.

I'd rather graduate with a 2.1 with an "experimental first year" than one year later, with a 2.2 because I waited for things to go back to normal.

I think deferring is just daft and I suspect the number of UK students deferring will be very small.

Asian students will look to stay in their Country, that's a given... provided they can, bear in mind we get the wealthy ones, not necessarily the smart ones, often they come over here because they can't get a place in a good University over there.

[DrMekon]

I lead a semester 1 MSc module at a RG uni. It's usually taught to about 60 students in a computer lab, with lots of supportive postgrads floating about.

I have been asked to consider 5 scenarios

Home students may be permitted to return to campus in September, but for a variety of reasons Eu/International students may not be able to join us till later in semester 1 (late by a period of up to 4 weeks). 

Home students may be permitted to return to campus in semester 1, but for a variety of reasons Eu/International students may not be able to join us till later in Semester 1 (date unspecified) and up to the beginning of semester 2. 

No students will be on campus in September; all students will be able to access campus by January and all teaching in semester 1 (apart from clinical placements) will be delivered online for all student groups.

Any currently ‘paused’ PGT HEE funded programmes may restart to complete their current cohort at the same time as a new cohort wish to enrol

All UG programmes across the institution will commence in September but all PGT programmes will be scheduled to commence in January for both Home/EU/International students. 

We've then been given a selection of course delivery options that they've pre-rated for acceptability to students, and asked us to tell us which of the options we'll choose, what adaptations we need to make to the module, and what support we need to do this. The uni seems to prefer that we use this interactive live lecture / remote desktop solution that would seem to me to be very reliant on the students having really great connections. I would rather pre-record a lecture with asynchronous activities for the students with follow-up q&a. This has been pre-rated as a poor option. Our lead for digital education has been crowing in the Guardian. I fear he lives in cloud cuckoo land.

Ooh, I forgot to add, I'm on the extremely vulnerable list, so I'm not seeing any students any time soon.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I don't have any sympathy for the concept of reduced fees. If students want to pay less fees, they should go to a lesser institution that charges less.

Youwat?

Please tell me about these 'lesser institutions that charge less'?

Some of my children have transferred between unis. Four have attended or completed uni in the past 5 years.

There is about £500 difference between the 'top' and 'lesser' universities.

[S2L]

I don't have any sympathy for the concept of reduced fees. If students want to pay less fees, they should go to a lesser institution that charges less.

Youwat?

Please tell me about these 'lesser institutions that charge less'?

Some of my children have transferred between unis. Four have attended or completed uni in the past 5 years.

There is about £500 difference between the 'top' and 'lesser' universities.

At the bottom of the ranking fees are around 7,000, but yes, over the years they all conformed to the 9,250

[caerau]

I don't have any sympathy for the concept of reduced fees. If students want to pay less fees, they should go to a lesser institution that charges less.

As for deferring... yes, you can defer, and what are you going to do for 12 months? Playstation? Netflix?

Retake A levels and do them 'properly' rather than the predicted guff that many are complaining about.  That's what our top bods think.


I've got to admit, I've rather had it up to here with students' first world problems over the last few weeks.  People are dying, losing jobs etc.  etc. 'my degree/A levels are not going to be the same' doesn't really cut it for me.
I do have sympathy for the ones in genuine strife.  One of our MSc students got basically airlifted out by her Saudi government and landed in Dubai.  2 weeks quarantine only then to find her onward flight to SA had since been cancelled and now she's in another 2 weeks of quarantine....which will then be followed by *another* two weeks of quarantine back home.  Ouch.  And this is student with anxiety problems.     But the 'angry mob' of students get almost zero sympathy from me.  Though this is not my public face at the Uni...

[S2L]

I've got to admit, I've rather had it up to here with students' first world problems over the last few weeks.  People are dying, losing jobs etc.  etc. 'my degree/A levels are not going to be the same' doesn't really cut it for me.
I do have sympathy for the ones in genuine strife.  One of our MSc students got basically airlifted out by her Saudi government and landed in Dubai.  2 weeks quarantine only then to find her onward flight to SA had since been cancelled and now she's in another 2 weeks of quarantine....which will then be followed by *another* two weeks of quarantine back home.  Ouch.  And this is student with anxiety problems.     But the 'angry mob' of students get almost zero sympathy from me.  Though this is not my public face at the Uni...

Completely agree, although luckily the majority seem very understanding of the situation... likewise, loads of students quarantined around the world on their way home in March (or often April, when flights were cancelled)

[Karla]

I don't have any sympathy for the concept of reduced fees. If students want to pay less fees, they should go to a lesser institution that charges less.

As for deferring... yes, you can defer, and what are you going to do for 12 months? Playstation? Netflix?

Retake A levels and do them 'properly' rather than the predicted guff that many are complaining about.  That's what our top bods think.

So you start work a year later, so your lifetime earnings are a year less.  Over your working life that's a 2% pay cut, which is not something to be sniffed at.

[ian]

Not to mention that being able to take a year out is a lot easier if you're from a middle-class background with affluent, supportive, and well-networked parents.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't have any sympathy for the concept of reduced fees. If students want to pay less fees, they should go to a lesser institution that charges less.

As for deferring... yes, you can defer, and what are you going to do for 12 months? Playstation? Netflix?

Retake A levels and do them 'properly' rather than the predicted guff that many are complaining about.  That's what our top bods think.


I've got to admit, I've rather had it up to here with students' first world problems over the last few weeks.  People are dying, losing jobs etc.  etc. 'my degree/A levels are not going to be the same' doesn't really cut it for me.

The (unreliable, unevidenced) word is that A levels and GCSEs might be replaced (not just this year) with something more akin to continuous assessment and coursework tasks. We shall see.

[nikki]

mini ao will be starting an art/design degree in Sept, which is hands on, use of core workshops etc, and not so amenable to youtube tuition.

I'm an Art student and can understand how this is problematic! My supervisor reckons they can't plan more than a week ahead at the moment, things are shifting so fast. Best wishes for whatever shape September turns out to be.

What discipline area is mini planning to study in?

[andyoxon]

I don't have any sympathy for the concept of reduced fees. If students want to pay less fees, they should go to a lesser institution that charges less.

Youwat?

Please tell me about these 'lesser institutions that charge less'?

Some of my children have transferred between unis. Four have attended or completed uni in the past 5 years.

There is about £500 difference between the 'top' and 'lesser' universities.

'pparently almost all universities having been charging the full £9250 for all courses for a while now

(not the gubbermint's finest hour this one IMO)

[andyoxon]

mini ao will be starting an art/design degree in Sept, which is hands on, use of core workshops etc, and not so amenable to youtube tuition.

I'm an Art student and can understand how this is problematic! My supervisor reckons they can't plan more than a week ahead at the moment, things are shifting so fast. Best wishes for whatever shape September turns out to be.

What discipline area is mini planning to study in?

Textiles / fashion.  Applying for the start of the ~£45K debt now.   

[Cudzoziemiec]

University: it's not just education you're missing out on!
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/20/no-sex-no-booze-how-the-move-online-will-take-all-the-fun-out-of-university

[fd3]

The (unreliable, unevidenced) word is that A levels and GCSEs might be replaced (not just this year) with something more akin to continuous assessment and coursework tasks. We shall see.

We already have that in the new BTECs that mix coursework with exams.  The govt (gove) hate them and they will expire soon.  New Tech levels will be a bit like this but will involve a day a week work placement (and unfortunately all the employers who bitch about students not being work ready refuse to have them in a day a week to become work ready).

I think unis might well make lower offers, expecting more dropouts in the first year, to reduce their losses. 
I'm a big fan of the flipped learning pedagogical model, but it requires students to do work when they are not forced to do it by you standing over them (or checking attendance in the lecture theatre) - while my students will be able to do this (because we shift the emphasis on them choosing to do the work) most schools and high-performing sixth forms won't risk their results on shifting the responsibility to the student.  So I reckon it will be a big schock.

[andyoxon]

UK universities facing £760m hit as one in five students plan to defer
Undergraduates say they will delay enrolment if classes stay online and activities are curbed

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/20/uk-universities-facing-760m-hit-one-in-five-students-plan-defer

The courses with more practical content, will have to be prioritised in some way if widespread zooming is planned - otherwise standards will suffer

Apparently the gubbermint are essentially going to allow 'overbooking' of courses, so the financial hit is not as great.  Fun times in 2021 intake...

[Aunt Maud]

Currently finishing my second year of a very practical BA at a London Art school. Next year I reckon it's going to be the same as it is now and I'm gearing up to do it all at home.

If I was starting afresh, I'd defer a year as standards are suffering and my fellow students are struggling big time.

[mrcharly-YHT]

A friend teaches veterinary radiography at a Cambridge uni college.
She's been put on furlough for now. In the new year they have no idea what they are going to do. Vet student teaching has a lot of hands on sessions.

[arabella]

fwiw my child going into year 2 next year has been told to be there for 12th October, which I think is a couple of weeks after the 'normal' start date (though one of those weeks would have been freshers' week.)
He's doing physics, therefore has labs, so the 'arts/humanities' instructions may differ.

[pumpkin]

lecturer I know haas been doing online tuition and loves it as he believes engagement is higher. But if my child was down for Oxbridge or similar where it's about the 'experience' I'd see about deferment until 2021. A lot of our lecturers are mugging up on Collaborate

[DuncanM]

I think it would be easier to continue normal teaching practise while social distancing in a tutorial system like Oxbridge offers. Clearly lectures would be a problem, but there's very little interaction anyway, so moving online there is pretty easy. Library access might be an issue, and labs would be a significant issue. I'm not sure how you could have college life in a social distant way though.

If I were a prospective student, I would be evaluating what it is that I expect to get out of university. I have never had a job where I have used anything I learned during my university courses (undergrad and MSc). Maybe I did university wrong!
Edit to say that it wasn't wasted time - I learned a lot about myself, the world and my subject.  I'm old enough that I didn't have to go into giant debt to do that though.

[caerau]

lecturer I know haas been doing online tuition and loves it as he believes engagement is higher. But if my child was down for Oxbridge or similar where it's about the 'experience' I'd see about deferment until 2021. A lot of our lecturers are mugging up on Collaborate

How are they doing on mugging up on that?  The only conclusion we drew was that it's shit.

[Karla]

If I were a prospective student, I would be evaluating what it is that I expect to get out of university. I have never had a job where I have used anything I learned during my university courses (undergrad and MSc). Maybe I did university wrong!
Edit to say that it wasn't wasted time - I learned a lot about myself, the world and my subject.  I'm old enough that I didn't have to go into giant debt to do that though.

... whereas I have made continuous use of what I learned at uni, and have several of my old textbooks sitting on a shelf above my work desk right now.

[Davef]

I think it would be easier to continue normal teaching practise while social distancing in a tutorial system like Oxbridge offers. Clearly lectures would be a problem, but there's very little interaction anyway, so moving online there is pretty easy. Library access might be an issue, and labs would be a significant issue. I'm not sure how you could have college life in a social distant way though.

If I were a prospective student, I would be evaluating what it is that I expect to get out of university. I have never had a job where I have used anything I learned during my university courses (undergrad and MSc). Maybe I did university wrong!
Edit to say that it wasn't wasted time - I learned a lot about myself, the world and my subject.  I'm old enough that I didn't have to go into giant debt to do that though.

I heard rumour of these lecture things when I was at university.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DuncanM]

If I were a prospective student, I would be evaluating what it is that I expect to get out of university. I have never had a job where I have used anything I learned during my university courses (undergrad and MSc). Maybe I did university wrong!
Edit to say that it wasn't wasted time - I learned a lot about myself, the world and my subject.  I'm old enough that I didn't have to go into giant debt to do that though.

... whereas I have made continuous use of what I learned at uni, and have several of my old textbooks sitting on a shelf above my work desk right now.

I guess it depends on how applied the course is - almost all the physics grads I know ended up in IT or banking. If I was choosing a course with a view on a future career, I would have chosen some form of engineering.