Author Topic: Eat your veg!  (Read 9781 times)

Eat your veg!
« on: 23 February, 2017, 09:37:51 am »
BBC reports today that a group of scientists have suggested that we should all eat 10 portions of fruit and veg each day. Public health England says the "5" guidelines don't need to change, as they are more achievable.

Just how big is a portion?

Does this reflect the increasingly unhelpful state of nutrition science?

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #1 on: 23 February, 2017, 09:56:46 am »
Given the size of my portions I don't think that I could eat ten portions of fruit and veg a day.

I'd like to see some properly researched evidence of the benefits of more F&G.   I'm sure that we all need a balanced diet for optimum health and I know that there was the Supersize Me documentary a few years back showing that a fast food diet was not good for you but I have no idea where the happy medium is just like I have no idea about the validity of BMI etc.

And then there is alcohol units per week...   

It's all too vague for me to take too seriously.

Chris S

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #2 on: 23 February, 2017, 10:02:37 am »
It's all too vague for me to take too seriously.

Indeed.

And when "they" say "Fruit and Veg", "they" mostly mean veg, and "they" don't mean potatoes - "they" mean greens and other above-ground veg. Ten times a day? Fuck that. We're hunter-gatherers - when in our history (even post-farming era) have we been able to hunt/gather/farm plants on that scale?

ETA: "Hunt plants?" Really Chris? Those will be the Triffids, I guess...  :facepalm:

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
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Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #3 on: 23 February, 2017, 10:04:11 am »
1 portion ~ 100 grams

Guidelines here(Denmark) says minimum 600grams/6 portions of vegetables and fruit pr day.
Minimum half shall be vegetables and only no matter how much juice you drink it only counts as 1 portion, due to lack of fibres.

Spuds does not count as a vegetable.

Clare

  • Is in NZ
Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #4 on: 23 February, 2017, 10:11:29 am »
In the UK one portion is 80 grams.

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
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Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #5 on: 23 February, 2017, 10:18:08 am »
In the UK one portion is 80 grams.

Makes sense, 1 kg vegetables a day is quite a lot if you're not a vegetarian  :)

ian

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #6 on: 23 February, 2017, 11:26:51 am »
A balanced diet is effectively a majority of fruit and veg (potatoes aren't evil, leave them alone), which is pretty much what the guidelines are saying. Of course, since we have comprehensively weirded diet, there now have to be targets and guidelines, and we can't simply say eat a lot of fruit and veg. That's too simple.

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #7 on: 23 February, 2017, 11:59:05 am »
The article I saw on the BBC mentioned a portion being equivalent to a small banana - or three heaped teaspoonfuls of peas! Perhaps they meant tablespoonful?
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Kim

  • Timelord
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Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #8 on: 23 February, 2017, 12:00:23 pm »
I didn't get where I am today by eating vegetables.  If that ends up being what kills me, I reckon that'll be a success.

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #9 on: 23 February, 2017, 12:05:29 pm »
The article I saw on the BBC mentioned a portion being equivalent to a small banana - or three heaped teaspoonfuls of peas! Perhaps they meant tablespoonful?
Or, since barely anyone eats with tablespoons, dessertspoonfuls?

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #10 on: 23 February, 2017, 12:07:21 pm »
I didn't get where I am today by eating meat - and I'm a depressingly long way further than Kim!

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #11 on: 23 February, 2017, 12:48:51 pm »
Does this reflect the increasingly unhelpful state of nutrition science?

What does that mean?

IanN

  • Voon
Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #12 on: 23 February, 2017, 01:35:56 pm »
Makes sense, 1 kg vegetables a day is quite a lot if you're not a vegetarian  :)

Given that very few sane people weigh vegetables to judge the number of British Standard Portions, I'm not sure guidance like this helps any more than 'eat less c**p'

The last time one of these reports came out it was 8 portions - so I thought I'd try it for a day. It certainly felt like I ate nothing but veg - although I must have sneaked in some (wholemeal obvs) bread, pasta etc. Evidently my perception of portion size is off



clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #13 on: 23 February, 2017, 04:15:43 pm »
'A portion' obviously varies according to the food in question.  Rough guides are exactly that.  And of course a higher proportion of fruit & veg in the diet are better, but what is Mr Average going to say if you insist he consumes ten portions per day?  He'd eat even fewer than he currently would under the 'five' label.

The advice is based on people having a grain of common sense, which is obviously overoptimistic, especially where the message gets mangled by the media.  I would expect most people on here to have enough nous to see five as a rough (low) guideline, to be able to look for a variety of colour in the veg on their plate, to look at the space on their plate etc etc.

It isn't rocket science, but it is science. 
Getting there...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #14 on: 23 February, 2017, 04:18:39 pm »
80 grams of rocket would be a lot!

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #15 on: 23 February, 2017, 05:10:30 pm »
80 grams of rocket would be a lot!


:)


I read an old Grauniad article observing that manufacturers like to label fruit pulp with condensed fruit juice as x of your 5 a day, plus they label only the expensive and prepack fruit and veg, not the whole stuff sold at low margin. Seems odd that people don't just ignore all that really.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #16 on: 23 February, 2017, 05:29:57 pm »
I thought the latest research was showing we each differ in what we need to eat (and what's good/bad for us to some degree) by dint of our gut bacteria.

I don't think I know many people who manage the fruit and veg portions a day thing even when it's at "5 portions".

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
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Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #17 on: 23 February, 2017, 06:49:05 pm »
I thought the latest research was showing we each differ in what we need to eat (and what's good/bad for us to some degree) by dint of our gut bacteria.

Yes and that is why they make a general amount. Some can get by without and some might need a kilo a day.



Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #18 on: 23 February, 2017, 07:04:11 pm »
I thought the latest research was showing we each differ in what we need to eat (and what's good/bad for us to some degree) by dint of our gut bacteria.

I don't think I know many people who manage the fruit and veg portions a day thing even when it's at "5 portions".

Yes, gut micro-biome is yet another area. I'll leave approaches to self improvement to everyone's imagination...

dim

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #19 on: 23 February, 2017, 07:24:52 pm »
no matter how much juice you drink it only counts as 1 portion, due to lack of fibres.


not so if you make smoothies with a nutribullet .... all the fibre is retained
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #20 on: 24 February, 2017, 08:18:23 am »
I thought the latest research was showing we each differ in what we need to eat (and what's good/bad for us to some degree) by dint of our gut bacteria.

Yes, in spades. This is a massively under-funded area of medicine.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

TheLurker

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Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #21 on: 24 February, 2017, 08:56:21 am »
And when "they" say "Fruit and Veg", "they" mostly mean veg, and "they" don't mean potatoes - "they" mean greens and other above-ground veg. Ten times a day? Fuck that. We're hunter-gatherers - when in our history (even post-farming era) have we been able to hunt/gather/farm plants on that scale?
*Ahem*
Studies of the few remaining hunter-gatherer peoples, like the San, suggest that the most of their diet is plant based, i.e. they are gatherer-hunters.  And that a _very_ great deal of time* is given over to foraging for edible plants. The meat bit is a, relatively, infrequent bonus.   So the eat _lots_ of plants advice tallies with our, likely, pre-farming way of life.   

Slightly OT.  I have come across articles which argue that moving to farming was, from a dietary point of view, a complete fuck up.  People went from a varied diet of whatever the hell green stuff they could find with a bit of meat thrown in now and again to diets based almost totally on cereals.

What farming allowed was increased population density (albeit unhealthier individuals) and all those things that make the modern world possible like reading, writing, political systems, taxes and bureaucracy.  Actually putting it that way farming was a bloody stupid idea wasn't it? :)

*And guess who does all that tedious gathering bit while the blokes sod off to the footy^w^w^whunting? :)
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Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #22 on: 24 February, 2017, 09:11:35 am »
I thought the latest research was showing we each differ in what we need to eat (and what's good/bad for us to some degree) by dint of our gut bacteria.

I don't think I know many people who manage the fruit and veg portions a day thing even when it's at "5 portions".
I generally manage over five, but fewer than ten. But I'm vegetarian and I eat a lot of curries, dhals, soups etc, and I can count the types of fruit and veg I don't like on one hand (parsnips, various beans, celery).
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #23 on: 24 February, 2017, 09:27:18 am »
no matter how much juice you drink it only counts as 1 portion, due to lack of fibres.


not so if you make smoothies with a nutribullet .... all the fibre is retained

Commercial comminuted fruit juices (which I suspect is most of the non-premuim ones, ie not "freshly squeezed") retain all the fibre, as they are made from the whole fruit less the pips.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Pedal Castro

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Re: Eat your veg!
« Reply #24 on: 24 February, 2017, 07:41:39 pm »
Correlation does not mean causation.  Are those who eat that much fruit and veg not also likely not to smoke, drink too much, exercise more, and generally look after themselves?