Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: andyoxon on 07 July, 2009, 03:14:50 pm
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I seem to have developed a frozen shoulder (adhesive capsulitis), according to a physio friend of ours. It's only in one shoulder, and restricts movement (painful stretched too far) so that playing tennis/badminton is now out. :-\ Does anyone have experience of this condition?
update. took about 12+ mths to fully resolve by itself. No issues since.
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I've had similar problems.
The answer seems to be lots of physio, and gradually increasing the range of movement. A friend of mine swore by water aerobics and water-based exercise helped me. Mum find Pilates a help.
Steroid injections may also be useful if unresponsive to other treatments.
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A year ago, almost to the day, my left shouder developed into a frozen shoulder. I couldn't sleep because no way was comfortable for me, the pain was constant and my range of motion became restricted to simply having my arm by my side. Sudden jarring movements would make me cry with pain.
I saw a physiotherapist and had xrays and scan which confirmed adhesive capsulitis. I had to stop seeing the physio because anything she did to it meant days and days of pain.
Actually nothing really helped until about Nov when my sister (registered nurse) suggested that I started taking paracetamol on a 6 hourly basis for a few days. That seemed to dull the pain a little and by the end of December I was relatively painfree but still with quite restricted ROM.
Now, I am back at the physio working on getting external rotation back. It seems to be the last thing that comes back.
NB
1. If you have a real frozen shoulder it will come right on its own in good time...probably 18 months but up to 21/2 years
2. There is a correlation between idiopathic Frozen Shoulder and diabetes
3. People do have MUA (manipulation under Anaesthetic) but personally I would stay well clear of that.
4. Having had one in one shoulder predisposes you to getting one in the other, but not a second one in the same shoulder if that makes sense.
If (heaven forbid) I should get one in the other shoulder, I would not see a physio until the inflammation/pain has gone. I would use much more ice rather than heat and I would keep on walking.
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My experience was similar to that of Hilary except prescription pain killers would not touch it. Sometimes there would be spasms of pain strong enough to make me almost black out.
The good news - it lasted a year; months 5 and 6 were the most painful then things steadily improved. It took another year or more to regain full mobility. Now, about 4 years on, I am still "aware" of that shoulder in away I am not aware of other body parts.
The very good news - apart from difficulty in giving a hand signal it did not stop me cycling.
I did not have any physio, just kept up a normal life as much as I could. Steroid injections seem to be a last resort before surgery. I am told they are painful in themselves and last only two weeks. I tried an osteopath, even went for acupuncture in an attempt to ease the condition, nothing helped.
To end on a positive note - there is light at the end of the tunnel. It does get better.
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Thanks all... looks like a long haul. What I'm not sure is if it's getting worse, hopefully not. In the way of exercises it was suggested that I put both arms as vertical as possible and hold for 3x30secs - 'pulling' but not pain, and, also placing elbow against my side and moving arm away to side and holding. I had to modify my sleeping position and now have my arm down, but fortunately no real pain at night. A few weeks ago I tried starting the lawn mower without priming enough, and pulling too hard left me in agony - now do this with left arm. I also find it tricky getting things into my cycling jersey/jacket rear pocket with my right arm.
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I've never posted on here but find this topic too painful a memory to not try and offer some support.
I did this 5 years ago. Awful, awful pain that had me in tears from time to time but the tears were from a gradual wearing down of moral and general frustration. I have a very high pain threshold IMO/E but have never felt so sore and generally wiped by anything in my life before
Sleeping was afwul and I ended up sleeping sitting up in a recliner chair for weeks on end to try and get comfortable- this worked suprisingly well.
It just goes away eventually, as has been said- there is light at the end of the tunnel. Helping it on it's way I would agree with regular pain relief, staying away from the physio( never helped me) and alternate heat and ice. Anti inflam meds such as diclofenic (sp?) helped me alongside paracetemol.
On the plus side- my episode came and went in just under 6 months.
Good Luck and chin up.
Steve
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I also find it tricky getting things into my cycling jersey/jacket rear pocket with my right arm.
I found that impossible. Mobility at its worst meant I could not get my arm behind my back at all. I also had to buy some new cycling tops because I had to have a full length zip to be able to put them on or off.
As Liability says, sleeping was aweful, just trying to find the one position that might work for an hour or two before waking and trying again. I found lying on the settee with my back and poorly shouder uppermost and supported by the settee back worked well.
The exercises you have mentioned are about as far as I went with anything other than normal activity.
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I can't wait until mine is just a painful memory. I had to stop cycling because any jarring at all caused drop-to-my-knees-and-weep-pain. I replaced my daily commute by bike to work by my daily walk to work and I have to say have lost 6 kilos! Unintended benefit.
For the first few months painkillers did not help, anti inflammatories did not help, exercises did not help. Someone gave me the Frozen Shoulder Work book by Clair Davies (I think). It didn't really help because the book was too big and unwieldy to hold long enough to read it.
As for getting your arm behind your back...you guys obviously don't wear a bra!
I also have had the experience of an impingement injury (off my bike at speedwhen some idiot pulled his truck in in front of me and to avoid hitting the truck I ended up in the tramlines!) in the other shoulder to compare the pain to. The impingement was bad enough that I had 2 steriod injections and countless physio and was about to have surgery when as a last resort my surgeon sent me to the physio who does his post operative work. After long and patient careful exercises that shoulder is nearly ok. But the pain of the frozen shoulder was far in excess of that.
Good luck with yours. Don't push it too hard in the early days and remember that it does have a natural life span... it freezes, then it's frozen for a time, then it thaws. Thawing time is when it's time to get into the exercises.
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Thanks all for the posts of your experiences and the encouragements. Looking forward to a thaw...
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Thread resurrection! May be relevant to those suffering.
After a nasty fall at the start of 2015 I suffered a torn shoulder ligament and what was eventually diagnosed as frozen shoulder. I was severely restricted in my shoulder movements, sleep was constantly interrupted and any sudden movement was extremely painful. Physio was of no use whatsoever. I actually had to stop Pilates classes as it would result in worsening the pain for days afterwards.
I had to work very hard to persuade my GP that "something had to be done" - they were all for letting it resolve itself. I had to explain that it was affecting every aspect of my life - work, sleep, exercise (luckily not cycling but I didn't tell them that!) Finally they agreed to a steroid injection in March, which took the pain away for 3 glorious months, but my July it was back just as bad.
I was eventually referred to a specialist who suggested hydrodilatation (injecting a large quantity of a saline and steroid solution into the joint). This is a relatively new procedure and no-one is quite sure how or why it works. I had the treatment 3 weeks ago and on leaving the hospital 30 minutes later I had regained about 95% of movement and the pain had gone!
I'm hoping this will be a lasting cure and it's not just the steroids masking the problem, but it feels different to the steroid injection on its own I had previously. The shoulder still feels a bit weird and makes funny noises, but I'm back at the gym and am working on rebuilding the muscle-tone I lost over the past 15 months.
If you have this problem it may be worth asking your GP for a referral.
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L shoulder froze some years ago. GP injected with steroids. told to go back if no improvement. went back after a week or so. GP injected steroids and said if it still does not improve your stuffed `cos I gave you as much as I can. seems there is a limit per year or something, can`t remember. it worked and improved back to my normal movement over some months
a few years later R shoulder froze, by which time I had been diagnosed as diabetic. Gp ended up referring me to the hospital
consultant walked into examination room and said to his minions that there is a classic case of frozen shoulder from the way I was sitting and holding my arm, anyway, sent for physio. worked after several months. consultant also said not to worry, you will soon be getting it in your other shoulder. Surprised when told it had been already. again recovery took some months
also for both took buckets of painkillers which rarely made much difference
I liken it to mega toothache at 7pm on a Friday night, it `aint going to get fixed for a while :'(
Good news is, the medics all said that you only get it once (in each shoulder) and they were right, nothing for 20 ish years now
be interesting how the saline and stuff solution works out
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I was treated for frozen shoulder back in the mid90s - steroid injections, physio, manipulation under anaesthetic - all with limited and/or medium term releif.
I had resigned myself to a life-time of limited movement and intermittent pain - but - since retiring the movement is much better, and I only get the pain in bed, when trying to get to sleep
I'm wondering now if the underlying issue was either posture, or using computer displays, or stress. (I'm now appreciating how much work stress has shaped my health history over the years!)
Sent from my HT7 using Tapatalk
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I have recently been diagnosed with "Frozen Shoulder" after paying to attend a Sports Injury clinic and also following advice from club members. The specialist/consultant was brilliant and only took a few minutes to come to diagnose the problem. He has recomended Hydrodilatation which is an injection (as recommended above) and I will be having the treatment soon. Will report back later.
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Hydrodilatation worked out well long-term for me - no recurrence of the acute debilitating pain.
Interestingly, I sometimes get a dull ache in that shoulder joint, particularly when I've not been to the gym for a few weeks. After a couple of weight-training sessions on upper-body resistance machines (which the first consultant told me I would never be able to do again ::-)) the pain vanishes.
There is probably some joint damage/abnormality, but building up the muscles around the joint clearly help protect it (I've had similar experience with knee joint problems).
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Painful. Last time I had one of these the Doc gave me some happy pills. When I queried this he said that they were also a muscle relaxant to break the spasm cycle and allow things to heal. It worked.
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I have recently been diagnosed with "Frozen Shoulder" after paying to attend a Sports Injury clinic and also following advice from club members. The specialist/consultant was brilliant and only took a few minutes to come to diagnose the problem. He has recomended Hydrodilatation which is an injection (as recommended above) and I will be having the treatment soon. Will report back later.
Is the hydrodilatation done under x-ray? If so I had that, at least they attempted it but it was too painful and local anesthetic didn't do the job. The guy carrying out the procedure asked me if I had taken aspirin before, which I hadn't, and claimed that was the reason why it so painful. I beg to differ and told him so. In the end I just had to tough it out before it fixed itself which took about a year.
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Is the hydrodilatation done under x-ray? If so I had that, at least they attempted it but it was too painful and local anesthetic didn't do the job.
Mine was done under local anaesthetic. The whole procedure was entirely painless - indeed quite the reverse. I went in with crippling pain and left hospital pain-free (and it continued that way).
It's quite a weird sensation having a large quantity of fluid injected into your shoulder joint. I assume much of it leaks away but a fair quantity seemed to be absorbed into the soft tissue. That shoulder was considerably larger than the other one for a time after. The surgeon was listening out for a popping sound as the joint released but that never happened so she went back for a second dose, and a third....!
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:-( Looks like I've now got a frozen shoulder. And I cannot see my usual private physio, due to covid19 lockdown! >:(
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Saw GP on Friday. Suspects trapped nerve. So a prescription of naproxen, and an appointment to visit the walk in x-ray dept at hospital. I'll also get an appointment to see the orthopedic consultant as well in a few weeks.
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Saw GP on Friday. Suspects trapped nerve. So a prescription of naproxen, and an appointment to visit the walk in x-ray dept at hospital. I'll also get an appointment to see the orthopedic consultant as well in a few weeks.
I expect that any referral being sent to me today will not be seen for at least 6 months.
I had a 3 month wait. I am adding a 6 week wait (probably) due to Covid. I will then have the 6 week wait , the three month wait and the clinically urgent. I think this will be about 6 months.
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X-ray done this morning.
Popped into local pharmacy on way home, to get additional pain relief. Hopefully the co-codamol should help!
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Anyway, I've managed to book an online video consultation with a local physio for this evening. Not as ideal as a face to face consultation but hopefully I'll get some benefit.
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My wife had both shoulders frozen at different times. She resisted the NHS steroid injections and manipulations, and good thing she did as the consultant who prescribed them in Solihull was subsequently investigated and expelled for poor practice.
They tend to resolve themselves, but it takes an awful long time and work. The injections and manipulations might make them better quicker, but they are not without risks. On balance, best to avoid, IMO.
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Online physio consultation done this evening. Upon doing his diagnostic tests via whatsapp video message, he thinks I'm suffering from a trapped nerve in my neck at the C6 level, (which explains the pins & needles in my thumb). And the start of a frozen right shoulder, brought on by the reduced use of my right arm due to the nerve pain. And weakness in my right arm brought by lack use range, which then causes more stiffness in the shoulder...
He's going to contact my GP, to see if they can prescribe any stronger painkillers (I was going to do that anyway, once I arrange an appointment to discuss my x-ray results).
So that looks like 2020 is out the window, cycling wise :facepalm: Twisted bowel last year, now a frozen shoulder / trapped nerve this year... >:(
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They tend to resolve themselves, but it takes an awful long time and work. The injections and manipulations might make them better quicker, but they are not without risks. On balance, best to avoid, IMO.
My shoulders are still not normal after around 25 years since having them diagnosed as being 'frozen' although they are not anywhere near as painful as they have been. It's the lack of range of movement that troubles me mostly.
I had injections in both and manipulation of one - and I'd say that at the time they were both worthwhile in giving a lot of short term relief, and possibly aiding longer term, but incomplete recovery.
I still do the physio exercises when they play me up.
We're all built differently!
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I agree that "do nothing" is not an option in some cases, certainly mine. I was in excruciating pain and couldn't work (or even get decent night's sleep).
At least get it seen by a professional and then discuss the various options. See upthread what worked for me. Immediate relief of pain, back to work and not a twinge since.
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Anyhoo, call back from GP today. X-Ray results clear. The physio I saw online last night via video call contacted my GP as well, so I've now got some stronger pain relief co-codamol 30/500mg, along with some laxatives in case the co-codamol bungs me up (which would be a bad thing, considering my surgery for twisted bowel last year).
I should hopefully get contacted by the orthopaedic consultant in a few weeks time, so we'll see what that brings.
Meanwhile, I've got lots of homework to do from the physio. So hopefully the exercises, combined with the stronger pain relief should hopefully start to help with the trapped nerve / frozen shoulder. ::-)
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All I got from the GP (12 years ago) was prescription strength codeine, no offer of physio or anything else. I was extremely lucky in that it cleared up in 9 months. My abiding memory is spasms of pain for no apparent reason which would almost cause me to black out. I would be lying on the settee with the shoulder supported against the back of it, no problems and pain at a constant low (new version of low) level, when WHAM. I was still able to ride, I suppose because riding takes your mind off things, but I had to be extremely careful about hand signals.
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All I got from the GP (12 years ago) was prescription strength codeine, no offer of physio or anything else. I was extremely lucky in that it cleared up in 9 months. My abiding memory is spasms of pain for no apparent reason which would almost cause me to black out. I would be lying on the settee with the shoulder supported against the back of it, no problems and pain at a constant low (new version of low) level, when WHAM. I was still able to ride, I suppose because riding takes your mind off things, but I had to be extremely careful about hand signals.
I went with a local private physio (Benji Physio, Dunfermline), who happened to be doing online consultations during the covid-19 lockdown. First time using them, but I figured it was worth a try as they had good reviews. Otherwise it'd probably be months till I would be able to see an NHS physio. Totally agree with you about the spasms of pain! :'(
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Shoulders can be astonishingly painful. Mine isn't frozen, but I've got arthritis in one from very dodgy anatomy and the other isn't good but I'm not sure why. I had a nerve block which worked only for 3 weeks and by the time the pain service who had a staffing glitch before Covid, could see me again we were in lockdown... Shoulder pain can screw up your neck and back and also trigger migraines in some people.
Good luck with painkillers and physio, I hope it does the job to unlock you enough soonest!
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Thanks Barakta. So far the physio exercises are helping me regain some sort of normality in the range of movement of my shoulder. Not helping much yet with regards to grip strength / wrist weakness... Hopefully that will come back in time.
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That sounds like positive progress. I would expect grip and wrist stuff to take longer as it's further down the arm and it may take a while to build that back up. So hopefully will get there - don't overdo it either!
Keeping fingers crossed!
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That sounds like positive progress. I would expect grip and wrist stuff to take longer as it's further down the arm and it may take a while to build that back up. So hopefully will get there - don't overdo it either!
Keeping fingers crossed!
Annoying that it's in my dominant hand though! :hand:
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I now have an appointment with the Orthopedic consultant on Wednesday 6th may. I was supposed to have an appointment last week, but I didn't get the hospital appointment letter delivered until after the appointment...
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I now have an appointment with the Orthopedic consultant on Wednesday 6th may. I was supposed to have an appointment last week, but I didn't get the hospital appointment letter delivered until after the appointment...
Good news that you got an appointment so promptly. Let us know what transpires. Good luck!
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Well, I saw the consultant today. He thinks it's a rotator cuff injury, which is causing the issues. The muscle is slightly inflamed, which he thinks is putting pressure on my tendons & nerves. SO meanwhile, keep taking the anti inflammatorys, and an appointment to see the NHS physio will be arranged.
Not long after getting back home, I had a call back from the consultant. He has spoken with his boss, the next stage will be an MRI scan of my neck. :o
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If it's not a rotor cuff then it may be a C5/6 disc herniation. The symptoms are similar. Perhaps if you had seen a neurologist they might have provide a different diagnosis. An MRI scan will answer the question.
Mine has recently flared up and so I am back on anti inflammatories and pain killers. It seems to be calming down and should be gone within the next couple of weeks.
When you do get the diagnosis and treatment plan then have a look at the Bob & Brad physio advice on You Tube. There's lots of good advice there.
https://bobandbrad.com
In terms of managing my condition the single most important change I made was to use a standing desk both at work and at home. Actually at home I use a standing shelf, but I can tell you more about that later.
In terms of cycling, yes I continued to cycle. In terms of my position on the bike then the best change made there was to ensure that my back was as long as possible and to have relaxed shoulders. A shorter, higher stem was not the answer.
Good luck, keen to hear more from you.
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Good service - and quick. Rotator cuff injury is a common diagnosis of FS and until they've done a scan they won't know the extent/location.
You're bloody lucky. It takes me months to get an MRI scan where I live and only then if you go through many hoops - 2 or 3 GP visits and being insistent (I actually refused to leave the room on the last visit until they promised to refer me), a physio session, at least one consultant. I think it took me 4 months in total, and that was when I was unable to sleep properly and unable to work.
They will probably do the shoulder why they're at it - would be crazy not to!
Keep us posted!
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Hello,
Was your diagnosis disc herniation or rotor cuff?
I have, both times, been able to get an MRI scan fairly quickly. They both confirmed and clarified the diagnosis.
I also had sleepless night, until I took gabapentin and amitryptiline. They were interesting drugs to take.
I now, very rarely, take Co-Codamol at night but prefer to avoid doing so.
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Hello,
Was your diagnosis disc herniation or rotor cuff?
Mine was rotator cuff, finally "cured" by an injection of various fluids (see upthread).
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If it's not a rotor cuff then it may be a C5/6 disc herniation. The symptoms are similar. Perhaps if you had seen a neurologist they might have provide a different diagnosis. An MRI scan will answer the question.
Mine has recently flared up and so I am back on anti inflammatories and pain killers. It seems to be calming down and should be gone within the next couple of weeks.
When you do get the diagnosis and treatment plan then have a look at the Bob & Brad physio advice on You Tube. There's lots of good advice there.
https://bobandbrad.com
In terms of managing my condition the single most important change I made was to use a standing desk both at work and at home. Actually at home I use a standing shelf, but I can tell you more about that later.
In terms of cycling, yes I continued to cycle. In terms of my position on the bike then the best change made there was to ensure that my back was as long as possible and to have relaxed shoulders. A shorter, higher stem was not the answer.
Good luck, keen to hear more from you.
Thanks! The physio I saw a couple of weeks ago (via online video call) suspects a trapped nerve in the neck at c6 level.
I did pop my comedy +35 degree 110mm stem back onto the tourer today, and I managed 24km, with a lot less discomfort due to the more upright position. Hopefully it won't be too long till I get the MRI scan. Meanwhile I'm going to keep doing the exercises the (private) physio I saw recommended.
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Any frozen shoulder suffers here that are also diabetic?
Additional: Been prescribed a month worth of naproxen and omeprazole via a phone interview. Have had naproxen before but not omeprazole for naproxen.
So how long on meds before anything else.
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Any exercise or physio stuff to help.
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Have been given naproxen (250 twice a day) and the shoulder is getting more painful. Now having more issues getting dressed and undressed.
How long before things get better?
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Have decided to up my dose to 500mg twice a day and add some paracetamol for the pain.
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Sounds nasty.
I currently have a frozen left shoulder - probably lifting concrete blocks before Xmas. Can only just get hand into small of back. Fortunately not on painkillers, but it sometimes aches during the night.
I e-contacted the GP surgery & was phoned by the physio who forwarded a link for info & exercises. I had a look online and it's this, from Nuffield Orthopaedic Centre (Oxford), in case useful - here's the link:
https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/shoulderandelbow/information/documents/A4FrozenShoulderAppendix3.pdf
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Thank you.
At least my hip and knee don't hurt any more.
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I agree that "do nothing" is not an option in some cases, certainly mine. I was in excruciating pain and couldn't work (or even get decent night's sleep).
At least get it seen by a professional and then discuss the various options. See upthread what worked for me. Immediate relief of pain, back to work and not a twinge since.
I got it in both shoulders at once, There was no position in which I could sleep properly, & opening doors at work (heavier than at home) was excruciating. With prescription-strength NSAIDs, then steroid injections, I could function almost normally, apart from riding a bike - a great loss. Still hurt, just not as much.
After the pain had more or less gone, I was left with reduced mobility in the worst affected shoulder, with little sign of it reducing, Physiotherapy helped a lot. Maybe it just accelerated the improvement, but if so it was a very welcome acceleration.
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Have been given naproxen (250 twice a day) and the shoulder is getting more painful. Now having more issues getting dressed and undressed.
How long before things get better?
In my case, several months. It was over a year before the pain had gone, & then I needed physiotherapy to recover the movement in my left shoulder. The right was also affected, but not as badly.
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I'm surprised none of you have been offered hydrodilatation (see upthread). It was the magic cure for me - worked within minutes after months of debilitating pain and no recurrence since. Has to be approved by a specialist and it's a relatively new treatment. No side-effects as far as I'm aware - certainly fewer than drugs.
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What are the symptoms that you have had as a frozen shoulder.
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Anyone?
Am asking as Naproxen isn't doing much but paracetamol seems to do better at pain reduction. Also this is no name paracetamol ;)
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Is frozen shoulder when you don't have full movement in your arms? I seem to have something like this for the last 5 months and it's both my shoulders!
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I had frozen shoulders years ago - both but at different times. Technically they were Rotator Cuff injuries - bloody painful themselves, but the ineffective treatments were almost as bad.
After all those years I still haven't regained full movement.
Sorry for the bad news.
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Rotator cuff injury does not equal frozen shoulder. Totally different pathology. Like saying a motorbike and bicycle are the same because they both have two wheels.
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Rotator cuff injury does not equal frozen shoulder. Totally different pathology. Like saying a motorbike and bicycle are the same because they both have two wheels.
Ah! Thanks - that explains stuff that I've wondered about for yonks. Although my memory is increasingly shot, I think the GP would always refer to it as Frozen, but the consultant said it was rotator cuff.
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It is not my field and I always have clever people around to look at shoulders.
Frozen shoulder is an adhesive capsulises. Basically everything sticks to everything. So both active and passive ROM are reduced.
Rotator cuff tears or impingement reduce active ROM but leave passive intact, although possibly painful.
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There are multiple causes of non-traumatic shoulder pain. Some are self-limiting, some aren't.
Acute calcific supraspinatus calcification
Adhesive capsulitis
Subacromial bursitis
Rotator cuff problems
And more
All have specific diagnostic patterns, natural history and treatments (useful or not!)
Opining online is none too helpful. Shoulders should be assessed by folk who know.
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Opining online is none too helpful. Shoulders should be assessed by folk who know.
Almost certainly true of all things medical
(and, yes, I'm as guilty as the next of consulting Dr Google)
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If its frozen shoulder then I had that about 3-years ago and went to a private sports injury clinic for treatment which involved one injection known as Hydodilatation straight into the joint. The difference within just a few minutes was huge and I have had no further problems since then.
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Well physio today and more exercises. Follow up in 2 weeks. After that maybe a referral and maybe a steroid injection. Left shoulder hurts all the time and I can't get a night's rest as every time I move I wake up with pain. Sigh
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had it some years ago in left shoulder. ended up with GP injecting joint. no better a couple of weeks later. so he stuck the needle in and pumped a load of steroids in. He then said that I can`t have anymore for several months as he had just used up the allocation for some time to come. It worked
couple of years later I got it in the right shoulder. more steroids, joint free and the good news that it only happens once in each joint. He appears to be right. That was many moons ago and no sign of it since
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Steroid injections are the first line option. I had 2 separated by a few weeks then, as you say, they won't do more if the pain persists.
Hydrodilatation was truly the miracle cure for me. Went into hospital with chronic debilitating pain that had been with me for months and walked out 30 minutes later pain-free and no recurrence since.