Author Topic: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?  (Read 11717 times)

Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #125 on: 30 August, 2013, 01:45:20 pm »
I think I'll just bin the AUK car sticker which I got with my Arrivee, as I don't have a car to put it in.
It's a window sticker. For your fairing.
 
I think it is time for AUK to introduce validation by hairstyle.

After Forres Foray when I got infos mixed up (managed to sort it eventually) I realised that my wild barnet was the real proof that I had cycled 200k

It should be fairly straightforward to calculate a barnet coefficient with escalating degrees of craziness required as proof of increased cycling distance.
Discriminates against the baldies thobut.
Given the age/gender profile of AUK that'd be a large group...

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #126 on: 30 August, 2013, 01:48:32 pm »
Could we assess them by sunburn or chilblain?
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Reg.T

  • "You don't have to go fast; you just have to go."
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #127 on: 30 August, 2013, 02:10:49 pm »
Or length of stare?  ;D
Just turn me loose let me straddle my old saddle
Underneath the western skies

Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #128 on: 30 August, 2013, 02:12:42 pm »
I like it.
Quote from: organiser
Your stare is only a 990yard stare, therefore I surmise you skipped the northern portion and merely rode 570km. No validation for you, sonny.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #129 on: 30 August, 2013, 05:05:22 pm »
Being bald is a hairstyle, surely?

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #130 on: 30 August, 2013, 05:14:31 pm »
If we're going down the hairstyle route then surely a route could be started in or at least visit London...


The Barnet Barnet Basher  ;D


Baldies could go for the windswept Beardy Weirdy look.


Not sure what the baldy ladies would do mind...

It's a reverse Elvis thing.

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #131 on: 30 August, 2013, 05:29:09 pm »
If we're going down the hairstyle route then surely a route could be started in or at least visit London...


The Barnet Barnet Basher  ;D


Baldies could go for the windswept Beardy Weirdy look.


Not sure what the baldy ladies would do mind...




or the bearded ones?

Hillbilly

Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #132 on: 30 August, 2013, 05:32:00 pm »
There could be a standard wig handed out to baldies.

A GPS (Global Positioning Syrup) if you will.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #133 on: 30 August, 2013, 05:32:10 pm »
They'll be fine, any furry wind-exposed hair is useable.  :-)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Lars

  • n.b. have shaved off beard since photo taken
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #134 on: 30 August, 2013, 06:25:27 pm »
For me the availability of DIYs and ECEs increase the no of calendar rides I end up doing.

- ECEs mean I've a number of times gone to events 50-75k away from where I live. Since I don't have
a car, and with the quite sparse weekend early morning train rides available, wouldn't have done those rides otherwise. Like the Witham 150, Flitchbikes 200, Bildeston Lanes and Rutland Ramble this season.
- The option to squeeze in a DIY by GPS when there's nothing else on means more Audax continuity.
- With the overall more Audax involvment from the two points above means getting into feasibility to achieve certain stretch goal awards like hyper, RRTY, R10,000 I certainly wouldn't have considered doable or interesting otherwise.

Regular paper brevet card perms don't make a difference for me. Have done a few, but not a single one this year. Which is a pity maybe.

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #135 on: 30 August, 2013, 06:29:08 pm »
I think I'll just bin the AUK car sticker which I got with my Arrivee, as I don't have a car to put it in.


Aye, was wondering what to do with mine too. Maybe I'll pop it on my office window...

Quote
I think that GPS only validation is in the future (I don't know how far) and not for now.

Maybe when some bright spark invents everlasting batteries. Or GPS units that use infinitessimally tiny amounts of power. Whichever happens first.

I'm a compass and map man myself.
Embrace your inner Fred.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #136 on: 30 August, 2013, 07:16:15 pm »
[GPS-only events:]

...

Quote
ETA: I think the point about cars is spurious, since AUK does not require any rider to use any particular form of transport to get to/from a ride. Clearly there is a sine qua non that you can get to the start of a ride with an HPV and are capable of powering it.

I agree technically, but not practically. There are events that would be very easy for me to do with a car, but are a real pain without. The point is that we are all restricted in one way or another as to what rides we can do and that not having a ride that some can do just because others cannot doesn't seem like a good reason not to have those rides.
that logic seems badly flawed. Firstly, it fails by the "two wrongs don't make a right" principle.

More specifically, I think ANY restrictions on entry are bad, but like life, these things are a compromise. I don't believe anyone thinks car-only events would be a good thing, but most of us accept that currently lots of events are pretty much thus.
Same with mudguards: I think there are good reasons for mudguard restrictions, so where organisers specify them it is worth the downside of excluding those unwilling/unable to attach the things.[I'm very glad the rule is no longer universal.]

Ideally events would be free, with unlimited numbers and unlimited food! But there are practical issues with this, sadly.


[If anyone could solve the GPS-tracker-free-to-all-entrants problem, that would be a wonderful compromise to all this - where is that idle rich benefactor when we need him?!?!? ]


Quote
I think I'll just bin the AUK car sticker which I got with my Arrivee, as I don't have a car to put it in.
Nooooo! Save it for me - I'm sure I can sneak it into a few cars :)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #137 on: 30 August, 2013, 07:54:50 pm »
I agree that there's probably not much abuse of perms going on, but the repeated route issue does mean that Infos on Perms potentially don't provide PoP. I think most other abuses are potentially applicable to cal events too. I was just making a point about why Infos on Perms may be regarded differently.

With the advent of amartphones etc, I think this is an issue that can affect Cal rides to, but that's a separate issue.

While one of the underlying principles is that Audax rides should be "open to all" (or until GPS is ubiquitous) I would be against making any perms (effectively) GPS-only.

This just comes back to the simple question, namely "what does anyone gain by cheating?". If someone wants to ride a perm, use their local knowledge to answer the questions and not actually ride the route, what do they gain? A few points on a web site. Big deal.

If we wanted to eliminate cheating completely we'd have to basically shut down all events as there's no way of being 100% sure that nobody cheated.

On a DIYxGPS it's pretty easy to knock up a GPX file using one of many available web sites. Some of them even conveniently "slow down" and "speed up" when going up or down hills. It wouldn't take a genius to ride a route and then doctor the file a little to extend or contract breaks, shuffle the times around a little, so it would look like the same route had been ridden twice rather than the route ridden once and a doctored file submitted a second time. Likewise it wouldn't be difficult to ride a monstrous great ride in chunks of whatever size were easy enough to do, patch the segments together, and tweak the times on waypoints so it looked like a single continuous ride.

On a regular perm there's no way of knowing whether the person did the route on a bicycle, or a motor vehicle.

On a calendar event there's no way of knowing whether a person actually rode the route, used a bit of local knowledge to answer the questions, looked it up on Street View on their smartphone, or called a friend who lives near the info controls. In theory someone could check in at a control, ride a few miles along the route, disappear off the route, put the bike in a friend's van, drive to within a few miles of the next control, wait until the appropriate time, then cycle to the next control. That way they'd check in at all the controls within the time allowed but only actually cycle maybe 5 miles between each control and drive the rest.

If people really want to go to such great lengths to cheat it seems the easiest thing to do is just leave them to it. If someone else has apparently accumulated 500 points this season without ever actually getting on their bike it doesn't change anything for me, I know my mighty total of 6 points for the season represents rides I actually did so I'm happy with that. The rider with 500 points earned by cheating is perhaps more deserving of sympathy than people scratching around trying to figure out how to stop them.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #138 on: 30 August, 2013, 10:23:25 pm »
[GPS-only events:]
that logic seems badly flawed. Firstly, it fails by the "two wrongs don't make a right" principle.

More specifically, I think ANY restrictions on entry are bad, but like life, these things are a compromise. I don't believe anyone thinks car-only events would be a good thing, but most of us accept that currently lots of events are pretty much thus.
Same with mudguards: I think there are good reasons for mudguard restrictions, so where organisers specify them it is worth the downside of excluding those unwilling/unable to attach the things.[I'm very glad the rule is no longer universal.]

Ideally events would be free, with unlimited numbers and unlimited food! But there are practical issues with this, sadly.

Your sentence in bold is exactly why I think we should have GPS only events and pretty much for the reasons you say.
No single AUK event will ever please everyone. If every event was LEL standard with it's large entries, excellent controls etc etc, then those who want a rougher event, or not so many people on an event, or whatever, will be restricted by their unwillingness to ride such events.
Diversity is a good thing and variety is the spice of life.
I don't see having what are effectivel car only events (for the majority) as a bad thing just because some of them aren't for me, just as I think it's good that people can ride events overseas when that also isn't for me, as much as I'd like it to be. I can't really afford a car or air fares, but I can afford a GPS which is usefull for lots more than AUK events. At least give me something.
Pleeeease!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #139 on: 31 August, 2013, 01:05:43 pm »
I can't really afford a car or air fares, but I can afford a GPS which is usefull for lots more than AUK events. At least give me something.
Pleeeease!
Hmmm. I still think of a GPS as an expensive luxury that could be a barrier to some riders ... but when you compare it with car running costs, I suppose it IS much more affordable! <glares at new tax disc and the enormous price stamped on it>

So as you asked so nicely, I'll let you have at least one GPS-validated event a year. Happy? :)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: Are perms and DIYs having an effect on calendar event numbers?
« Reply #140 on: 31 August, 2013, 01:19:01 pm »
I can't really afford a car or air fares, but I can afford a GPS which is usefull for lots more than AUK events. At least give me something.
Pleeeease!
Hmmm. I still think of a GPS as an expensive luxury that could be a barrier to some riders ... but when you compare it with car running costs, I suppose it IS much more affordable! <glares at new tax disc and the enormous price stamped on it>

So as you asked so nicely, I'll let you have at least one GPS-validated event a year. Happy? :)

For the price of a tax disc and a year's insurance you could buy a very nice GPS unit. Throw in a year's depreciation and you could buy a few of them.

Even for older cars the tax disc and insurance combine to a fair chunk of cash before you put any fuel in the car.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.