Author Topic: CYCLOPS junction  (Read 1039 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • first to the top of the hill puts the kettle on
CYCLOPS junction
« on: 02 July, 2020, 03:27:49 pm »
New design of "Dutch-style" junction being introduced in Manchester. I've just watched this video of someone doing a mildly silly but fun full loop of it.
https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-july-02-2020-275081#live-blog-item-16771
I was glad to see the proper, albeit small, traffic lights for bikes, rather than puffin-crossing style ones you have to squint at sideways – but then seriously disappointed to notice you still have to press a button to activate them.  >:(
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #1 on: 02 July, 2020, 04:39:42 pm »
New design of "Dutch-style" junction being introduced in Manchester. I've just watched this video of someone doing a mildly silly but fun full loop of it.
https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-july-02-2020-275081#live-blog-item-16771
I was glad to see the proper, albeit small, traffic lights for bikes, rather than puffin-crossing style ones you have to squint at sideways – but then seriously disappointed to notice you still have to press a button to activate them.  >:(

The reaction of Dutch based cyclists on twitter has been a bit mixed, ranging from:

"Wtf?!"

to "Seriously why are you so excited about this crap?"

right up to "Pass the popcorn"

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #2 on: 02 July, 2020, 04:49:14 pm »
We've got a crossing on the new A38 cycleway with placebo beg buttons for cyclists.

The crossing detects waiting cyclists by radar and gives them priority over motor traffic (timeout permitting).  The beg buttons appear to be not plugged in: The little red 'wait' lights never light up.

The other crossings have the same radar arrangement (though the two big junctions just cycle through their states rather than giving cyclists priority - maybe the radar achieves something at 3am?), but no beg buttons.

All are equipped with the low-level repeater traffic lights (as well as full-sized ones at the top of the pole).  IIRC those are a relatively recent legal innovation.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #3 on: 02 July, 2020, 05:48:40 pm »
A lot of Dutch junctions have beg buttons. Or they look like beg buttons but might be motion sensitive. I've never quite figured it out. They also have little "Wacht" lights with an LED progress bar*, which I think are essential if you want people to use them properly.

(* Because Dutch junctions are heavily optimised and skip or shorten unnecessary cycles, they don't count down linearly so its easy to think you'll be waiting ages, get distracted and look up - usually prompted by a native sailing past - and see you have a green light)

The Advance Stop Line areas are an embarrassment of wonky thinking.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #4 on: 02 July, 2020, 06:16:59 pm »
I like the mechanical tickers on Dutch junctions.  Like the rotating cone we have on UK pelican crossings, but audible (in a way that's more directional and less annoying than BEEPBEEPBEEPBEEPBEEP).
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • first to the top of the hill puts the kettle on
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #5 on: 02 July, 2020, 08:06:16 pm »
A lot of Dutch junctions have beg buttons. Or they look like beg buttons but might be motion sensitive. I've never quite figured it out. They also have little "Wacht" lights with an LED progress bar*, which I think are essential if you want people to use them properly.

(* Because Dutch junctions are heavily optimised and skip or shorten unnecessary cycles, they don't count down linearly so its easy to think you'll be waiting ages, get distracted and look up - usually prompted by a native sailing past - and see you have a green light)

The Advance Stop Line areas are an embarrassment of wonky thinking.
Confuzzling. Why is the progress bar so necessary if it doesn't count down linearly? Rather than watching that, you'd be better off watching the actual lights, wouldn't you?
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #6 on: 02 July, 2020, 08:32:55 pm »
Why is the progress bar so necessary if it doesn't count down linearly?

Have you ever used Microsoft Windows?

Same logic:  People are more patient if there's something to watch.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #7 on: 02 July, 2020, 08:38:15 pm »
Why is the progress bar so necessary if it doesn't count down linearly?

Have you ever used Microsoft Windows?


I'm sure you were expecting this, so I'll be predictable...


Cudzoziemiec

  • first to the top of the hill puts the kettle on
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #8 on: 02 July, 2020, 08:54:35 pm »
I don't feel there's any virtue in extending the Microsoft second to areas currently uninfested by it. They kind of make sense at bus stops and train stations where you're actually waiting for a particular event and might make decisions based on whether the 72A is expected before the 45, but with traffic lights any green is the same is the next green. As for things to watch, you've got the lights. If you don't like those, there's traffic.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #9 on: 02 July, 2020, 10:31:57 pm »
Yeahbut if people watch the traffic they might spot a gap and cross in it.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #10 on: 02 July, 2020, 10:36:10 pm »
Yeah, the point is to encourage people to wait and give a clear idea of when it'll be.

Most of them are just boring linear countdowns, and relatively quick compared to the priority UK traffic engineers give. The non linear ones are an exception.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: CYCLOPS junction
« Reply #11 on: 03 July, 2020, 09:40:27 pm »
Yeah, the point is to encourage people to wait and give a clear idea of when it'll be.

Most of them are just boring linear countdowns, and relatively quick compared to the priority UK traffic engineers give. The non linear ones are an exception.

And give the Dutch ones are built generally to be above the red/green light box, you can see the light change as the Wacht countdown changes.

On one junction today, despite activation of the beg button, and despite watching the whole junction go through a complete phase, including the bikes from the opposite direction, I got no green, in the end I just went when the cars next to me did. A count down would have been nice, at least I'd have known the beg button had worked...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/