Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: Cudzoziemiec on 27 May, 2020, 09:10:59 pm
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On Sunday I was riding through a village when, outside the church, I saw a cake stall. A blackboard announced "Cyclists! Stop for CAKE! 50p, raising funds for foodbank." So I stopped, obviously. And didn't get any cake, because it was just a small table with cake under a glass dome and an honesty box. I had no cash on me – haven't carried any since lockdown and had been slowly getting out of the habit of using (but not of carrying) before that – and there was no other way to pay, and no one around.
This got me thinking about possible reasons for carrying cash. Here's a list I've come up with. Feel free to add other reasons as they occur to you and to comment on the ones that have occurred to me:
- Unattended honesty box situations
- People selling jam etc from their gardens
- Leaving tips for waiters
- For use in small shops that still don't take cards
- For small purchases in shops with a card minimum
- For shops in countries with a card levy
- Giving money to buskers or beggars
- When it's necessary to bribe policemen, border agents, hotel staff, etc
- Paying for photocopying etc in the library (they only take cash here)
- Gifts to kids
- As backup if cards fail/are rejected or get lost/stolen
- Old skool audaxes with village hall controls run by the WI or similar
It's unlikely many of these will happen in a typical day. Some of them might never happen through your entire life (I've only once had to bribe a border agent-type person, and that wasn't even at a border...) and many of them are location specific, while others can be avoided by going to a different shop (usually). But occasionally, it would be nice to have had that cake. Nevertheless, I haven't started carrying cash yet. But maybe...
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Like you, I've not been carrying cash during lockdown, and it hasn't been a problem so far.
Looking at your impressive list, I was reminded of an occasion years ago when coins of the realm came in very useful. I punctured, which was when I discovered that my tool roll was not properly secure and my tyre levers had apparently shaken free somewhere down the road. I seem to remember that a combination of 20p and 10p pieces enabled me to get the tyre (a lightweight 23mm) off surprisingly quickly. Don't try this with Marathon Pluses ;D
There must surely be other possibilities for using coins, or indeed notes (tyre boot?) to get you out of a fix. Having said that, I think I'll take my purse with me tomorrow!
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ISTR someone commenting that the new plastic notes were a great improvement on paper ones as emergency tyre boots. Rather an expensive one if you've only got a tenner.
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Our butcher sells a really good light rye sourdough. Only problem is that it comes from a baker in Newcastle Emlyn, and he doesn't want the money to go through his till. So if you want bread, you have to give him £3 in cash, and in change. This he chucks into a separate jar for the baker.
So, every Tuesday (bread delivery day) I have to go to the convenience store, take a tenner from their ATM (if I don't have a fiver left from last week), and buy something for less than £2. (Usually the I newspaper)
It's an absolute pain.
While I'm here, has anyone else experienced their card payment occasionally being declined when tapping? Works fine if I then actually put the card in and enter my pin. I guess that there must be a limit on the number of times that a card may be tapped before pin conformation is required.
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While I'm here, has anyone else experienced their card payment occasionally being declined when tapping? Works fine if I then actually put the card in and enter my pin. I guess that there must be a limit on the number of times that a card may be tapped before pin conformation is required.
Yes. It's annoying, isn't it? Or maybe it's a reassuring security feature. I think it's every ten transactions.
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Like you, I've not been carrying cash during lockdown, and it hasn't been a problem so far.
Looking at your impressive list, I was reminded of an occasion years ago when coins of the realm came in very useful. I punctured, which was when I discovered that my tool roll was not properly secure and my tyre levers had apparently shaken free somewhere down the road. I seem to remember that a combination of 20p and 10p pieces enabled me to get the tyre (a lightweight 23mm) off surprisingly quickly. Don't try this with Marathon Pluses ;D
There must surely be other possibilities for using coins, or indeed notes (tyre boot?) to get you out of a fix. Having said that, I think I'll take my purse with me tomorrow!
I've used small coins as improvised screwdrivers.
A sock full of coins could serve as a substitute blackjack.
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Our butcher sells a really good light rye sourdough. Only problem is that it comes from a baker in Newcastle Emlyn, and he doesn't want the money to go through his till. So if you want bread, you have to give him £3 in cash, and in change. This he chucks into a separate jar for the baker.
So, every Tuesday (bread delivery day) I have to go to the convenience store, take a tenner from their ATM (if I don't have a fiver left from last week), and buy something for less than £2. (Usually the I newspaper)
It's an absolute pain.
Alternatively, pop in to your bank or PO and get a bag of £1 coins? Good for quite a few loaves (assuming you don't spend the coins on other things).
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While I'm here, has anyone else experienced their card payment occasionally being declined when tapping? Works fine if I then actually put the card in and enter my pin. I guess that there must be a limit on the number of times that a card may be tapped before pin conformation is required.
Yes. It's annoying, isn't it? Or maybe it's a reassuring security feature. I think it's every ten transactions.
Yes. I tried to tap at Mr Sainsbury's House of Toothy Comestibles and had the card declined. I thought this was down to having No Money so used another card. Later it got declined at Timpson's*, where the Nice Young Man explained it was as you describe. I stuck it in the slot and enterted my PIN and all was well. I guess I haven't come up against it before as I'd been doing larger, over the tap and go limit, transactions which would reset the PIN counter.
* Timpson's have a laudable policy of employing ex offenders. Old Bailey hack, Rumpole of The Bailey keeps body and soul together by defending minor South London villains, The Timson family. Sadly they don't quite spell it the same.
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I think it's reset by any transaction using the PIN, so ATM transactions also reset it. But I don't know whether online transactions count towards the pin-less limit.
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I have used coins as s rew drivers in the past. I have also used notes and tyre boots. I bought some jam in Brough near Hull a few years ago on a DIY 600 to fill bread bought along the way to eat.
Then two years ago I attempted to buy cycle mitts on the Borders of Belgium but the shop only accepted Maestro. Not Visa or MasterCard, both of which I had... I had no cash on me as we were returning to the ferry. When back home I enquired about a Maestro card with my bank and they looked at me like I was from the local asylum and told me banks stopped issuing Maestro in the 90s ..
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On Sunday I was riding through a village when, outside the church, I saw a cake stall. A blackboard announced "Cyclists! Stop for CAKE! 50p, raising funds for foodbank." So I stopped, obviously. And didn't get any cake, because it was just a small table with cake under a glass dome and an honesty box. I had no cash on me – haven't carried any since lockdown and had been slowly getting out of the habit of using (but not of carrying) before that – and there was no other way to pay, and no one around.
This got me thinking about possible reasons for carrying cash. Here's a list I've come up with. Feel free to add other reasons as they occur to you and to comment on the ones that have occurred to me:
- Unattended honesty box situations
- People selling jam etc from their gardens
- Leaving tips for waiters
- For use in small shops that still don't take cards
- For small purchases in shops with a card minimum
- For shops in countries with a card levy
- Giving money to buskers or beggars
- When it's necessary to bribe policemen, border agents, hotel staff, etc
- Paying for photocopying etc in the library (they only take cash here)
- Gifts to kids
- As backup if cards fail/are rejected or get lost/stolen
- Old skool audaxes with village hall controls run by the WI or similar
It's unlikely many of these will happen in a typical day. Some of them might never happen through your entire life (I've only once had to bribe a border agent-type person, and that wasn't even at a border...) and many of them are location specific, while others can be avoided by going to a different shop (usually). But occasionally, it would be nice to have had that cake. Nevertheless, I haven't started carrying cash yet. But maybe...
When I worked for a certain cash machine manufacturer in their R&D there was always the need to convince people that cash will always be useful, and so to therefore would cash machines.
I don't know what the people that went to the trade shows actually told customers what future cash might have, but the behind the scenes comments about what might still need to be paid for in cash in future isn't in that list...
It was their major fear, if cash is no longer required, what purpose the ATM?
So all the work relating to contactless I did was "defensive" i.e. how does our machine still have a purpose in a cash free world.
Never really envisaged the rise in honesty box shops tbh.
While I'm here, has anyone else experienced their card payment occasionally being declined when tapping? Works fine if I then actually put the card in and enter my pin. I guess that there must be a limit on the number of times that a card may be tapped before pin conformation is required.
Yes. It's annoying, isn't it? Or maybe it's a reassuring security feature. I think it's every ten transactions.
Set by the bank, I think mine is 5, it's usually x transactions since last PIN transaction.
Pain in the hoop, but you can avoid it by using Google or Apple pay because the device being unlocked is apparently acceptable security.
I'm sure there was initially the possibility of doing the pin from a tap, but you'd have needed to hold the card in range for the comms to keep going (would be the same on an ATM)
The EMV and RFID specs were public IIRC
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I used a couple of US$20 bills as a tire boot on my first UK cycling tour. Made for a great story when I got back to the US and spent them.
I give Clif bars to beggars, the way I'm not feeding anybody's drug/alcohol habit.
Card minimums are becoming pretty rare around here.
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While I'm here, has anyone else experienced their card payment occasionally being declined when tapping? Works fine if I then actually put the card in and enter my pin. I guess that there must be a limit on the number of times that a card may be tapped before pin conformation is required.
Yes. It's annoying, isn't it? Or maybe it's a reassuring security feature. I think it's every ten transactions.
I think you'll find it's an algorithm based on the number of transactions - the frequency - value . . . . a couple of times I've made, say, 5 or 6 purchases within a 30 minute period and had the PIN request - other times I've probably gone 30 - 40 transactions over an extended period with just tapping.
Rob
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Since 28 March I have only spent £10 in cash ... that was last week when I joined the street's weekly beer syndicate - 4 pint plastic bottle of ale from a local craft brewer that is delivering.
Unfortunately I have managed to spend rather a lot in that period with cards, bank transfers and Paypal.
Rob
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Although I've spent very little, I still always put a plastic fiver or tenner in my pocket when out on the bike, just in case. Habit I guess.
To add to the list though, not becasue it requires cash, but I've always preferred to pay for my local car park 5-min walk from the station with cash. All my £1 adn 50p coins went into the little drawer in the car for when I neede to get into the office or similar. The advantage over paying by phone was in managing receipts and claiming back expenses.
Now I don't have a car, I have pile of pound coins sitting on my dresser with no purpose in life. (Long story, sold car three weeks before lockdown with full intent to buy another, found one, astronomically inflated price and no willingness to haggle, where's that Life of Brian hard man when you need him?)
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I'm doing shopping for our elderly neighbours, who pay me in cash (a mixture of notes and coins).
But I've not actually used any cash in the last couple of months so I now have a wallet bursting with notes and a large bowl full of coins...
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Regarding buskers in London, buskers on the Underground grequently have card machines these days. Those white things abotu the size of a fag packet, usually on a little stand.
I shamefully admit I usually am a bit miffed as the donation is 4 quid and I would usually throw a pound coin in their guitar case. I may have the 4 quid figure wrong, but it is more than my normal amount. Which reflects that I am old and out of touch wiht the real value of a pound.
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I shamefully admit I usually am a bit miffed as the donation is 4 quid and I would usually throw a pound coin in their guitar case. I may have the 4 quid figure wrong, but it is more than my normal amount. Which reflects that I am old and out of touch wiht the real value of a pound.
I tend to go on the price of a pint for this type of donation. Which, I suppose, could be well more than £4 in Lunnun. Which is why I never go ther anymore.
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I bet Cummings wished he'd carried cash. And used a mate's* car. And a burner phone.
*ok, he doesn't have any, at least in London
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When I worked for a certain cash machine manufacturer in their R&D there was always the need to convince people that cash will always be useful, and so to therefore would cash machines.
I don't know what the people that went to the trade shows actually told customers what future cash might have, but the behind the scenes comments about what might still need to be paid for in cash in future isn't in that list...
It was their major fear, if cash is no longer required, what purpose the ATM?
So all the work relating to contactless I did was "defensive" i.e. how does our machine still have a purpose in a cash free world.
Never really envisaged the rise in honesty box shops tbh.
I guess the behind the scenes comments refer to:
I give Clif bars to beggars, the way I'm not feeding anybody's drug/alcohol habit.
And I guess even there, it only applies at street level, with the mister bigs channelling the money through front business and so on.
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Since 28 March I have only spent £10 in cash ... that was last week when I joined the street's weekly beer syndicate - 4 pint plastic bottle of ale from a local craft brewer that is delivering.
Unfortunately I have managed to spend rather a lot in that period with cards, bank transfers and Paypal.
Rob
And that's another reason: to keep track of expenditure and to make it feel real. Doesn't apply to everyone, some people will find it easier to control in electronic format (and some might prefer cheques!) but certainly some people might eg put £x in cash in their pocket and that's their spending limit for the day.
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In your extensive list you seem to have missed "spending a penny". ;)
I am by nature a cash person. Before lockdown I would shop in small, local shops, use the market and even pay by cash in cafes etc. Lockdown has forced me to go contactless which is a real pain because I cannot read the screen to know if the transaction has been accepted or declined. Further, since they upped the contactless transaction limit my card seems to be rejected once a week. Before that, never. Perhaps that is mere coincidence though as I haven't been using the cash point.
I did my usual weekly cash withdrawal on the Monday before lockdown and I am still spending it. A couple of small local suppliers are still accepting cash but it amounts to about a tenner a week on average.
I also keep an emergency wad in the house for those "just in case" moments. I started doing it 20 years ago when my father became seriously ill. A taxi ride of 35 miles at 2 in the morning was a distinct possibility.
I cannot wait to get back to proper money and away from the prying eyes of government and the bank.
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In your extensive list you seem to have missed "spending a penny". ;)
Good point! I can't actually remember the last time I had to pay to use a public toilet - possibly because the council was austeritised into closing them all (I think they were free before that but can't actually remember).
I am by nature a cash person. Before lockdown I would shop in small, local shops, use the market and even pay by cash in cafes etc. Lockdown has forced me to go contactless which is a real pain because I cannot read the screen to know if the transaction has been accepted or declined. Further, since they upped the contactless transaction limit my card seems to be rejected once a week. Before that, never. Perhaps that is mere coincidence though as I haven't been using the cash point.
Using contactless does not mean avoiding small, local shops. I haven't been in anything bigger than the Co-op since lockdown, and that only about twice. The most pro-actively card only shops here are a not-for-profit bakery and an organic wholefood cooperative.
The problem of reading the screen is a valid one, even for those of us with "normal" eyesight (the optician tells me mine is good... at least for my age... )
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Fish & Chips. Most of the chippys I've been in relieve you of cash only.
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When I worked for a certain cash machine manufacturer in their R&D there was always the need to convince people that cash will always be useful, and so to therefore would cash machines.
I don't know what the people that went to the trade shows actually told customers what future cash might have, but the behind the scenes comments about what might still need to be paid for in cash in future isn't in that list...
It was their major fear, if cash is no longer required, what purpose the ATM?
So all the work relating to contactless I did was "defensive" i.e. how does our machine still have a purpose in a cash free world.
Never really envisaged the rise in honesty box shops tbh.
I guess the behind the scenes comments refer to:
I give Clif bars to beggars, the way I'm not feeding anybody's drug/alcohol habit.
And I guess even there, it only applies at street level, with the mister bigs channelling the money through front business and so on.
I imagine the behind the scenes comments were referring to a baser, and much older trade.
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I'm doing shopping for our elderly neighbours, who pay me in cash (a mixture of notes and coins).
But I've not actually used any cash in the last couple of months so I now have a wallet bursting with notes and a large bowl full of coins...
Bank branches are still open and accepting paying in cash as a valid reason for visiting. Alternatively, you could put it in a charity box somewhere.
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Fish & Chips. Most of the chippys I've been in relieve you of cash only.
Along with cake, that has to be the best reason!
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One of the pubs in the village is only accepting cash for its take away meals. They've closed down all their electronics.
Ironically, this is the only pub where I routinely use a card for drinks purchases as it's rather expensive.
It is the only cash I've used since the lockdown started.
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The only place we use cash is the launderette, often we have to buy a bag of pound coins for this purpose.
Cash it's a pain, it takes up a load of room, comes in faffy denominations, and is dirty.
I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
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Launderettes and coin-operated machines are another one I forgot. Although we have a washing machine, I do very occasionally use a launderette for items too bulky, but that particular launderette is part of a cafe (it also has live music in the evenings – obviously all shut at the moment, but there's a sign outside they're still doing service washes) so getting change (in fact it's a token rather than coins) is not a problem.
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Launderettes and coin-operated machines are another one I forgot. Although we have a washing machine, I do very occasionally use a launderette for items too bulky, but that particular launderette is part of a cafe (it also has live music in the evenings – obviously all shut at the moment, but there's a sign outside they're still doing service washes) so getting change (in fact it's a token rather than coins) is not a problem.
We use the one in town for the tumble dryers, when we redevelop the kitchen we may buy a tumble dryer removing that need. During the summer we dry things on the washing line in the garden.
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As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
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In your extensive list you seem to have missed "spending a penny". ;)
I am by nature a cash person. Before lockdown I would shop in small, local shops, use the market and even pay by cash in cafes etc. Lockdown has forced me to go contactless which is a real pain because I cannot read the screen to know if the transaction has been accepted or declined. Further, since they upped the contactless transaction limit my card seems to be rejected once a week. Before that, never. Perhaps that is mere coincidence though as I haven't been using the cash point.
I did my usual weekly cash withdrawal on the Monday before lockdown and I am still spending it. A couple of small local suppliers are still accepting cash but it amounts to about a tenner a week on average.
I also keep an emergency wad in the house for those "just in case" moments. I started doing it 20 years ago when my father became seriously ill. A taxi ride of 35 miles at 2 in the morning was a distinct possibility.
I cannot wait to get back to proper money and away from the prying eyes of government and the bank.
Feels like so long since I've been to the market, that I'd forgotten that one
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This thread has made me think. I habitually pay in cash in cafés, which can result in a heavy load of change in my back pocket while out on a ride. I often have a card with me in any case, which would avoid that problem. Furthermore*, there must be a list of 'reasons to carry a card': eg slipping a Yale-type cylinder lock when 'going equipped'.
*Ooh, haven't used that nice word for yonks! Talking of words, I love Cudzo's 'austeritised'; near enough to 'sterilised' to suggest 'rendered impotent'.
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Further, since they upped the contactless transaction limit my card seems to be rejected once a week. Before that, never. Perhaps that is mere coincidence though as I haven't been using the cash point.
That is part of the bank's fraud detection system, the bank wants to check that you still control the card. You can probably reduce the rejection rate by explicitly entering you pin for some payments, or by using a cash point to check your balance.
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I was always a cash person. I'm down to the last fiver of the 30 quid I had in my wallet at the start of the lockdown.
I found cash easier to budget, taking out enough coffee and snack money to last me the week. I found it a lot easier whilst riding as well. although you do end up with a pocket full of change.
I'm always stood behind someone in a queue at a coffee shop whose contactless/phone/watch won't scan so they can buy their decaff soya latte. At times I feel that new technology is not necessarily better.
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- For use in small shops that still don't take cards
- For small purchases in shops with a card minimum
I don't think there is a car minimum any more (I could be completely wrong...) but the local Gifte Shoppe for trinkets, geegaws and cards prefers contactless. And the local farm shop too has removed it's £5 minimum for cards.
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I'm doing shopping for our elderly neighbours, who pay me in cash (a mixture of notes and coins).
But I've not actually used any cash in the last couple of months so I now have a wallet bursting with notes and a large bowl full of coins...
I have ordered groceries from Sainsbury's online on my account for my Ancient Parents, who have repaid me with cash. This is useful when I'm taking many taxis but now I have a rather full wallet.
My parents like Nice Foods and have had several consignments...
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- For use in small shops that still don't take cards
- For small purchases in shops with a card minimum
I don't think there is a car minimum any more (I could be completely wrong...) but the local Gifte Shoppe for trinkets, geegaws and cards prefers contactless. And the local farm shop too has removed it's £5 minimum for cards.
I was surprised to find, early in lockdown, that the local Korean shop was still applying its £5 card minimum. So I bought more tofu and noodles.
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*Ooh, haven't used that nice word for yonks! Talking of words, I love Cudzo's 'austeritised'; near enough to 'sterilised' to suggest 'rendered impotent'.
Thank you, but I don't think I invented it. Nor had the similarity to sterlised occurred to me, though it is very appropriate.
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When I worked for a certain cash machine manufacturer in their R&D there was always the need to convince people that cash will always be useful, and so to therefore would cash machines.
I don't know what the people that went to the trade shows actually told customers what future cash might have, but the behind the scenes comments about what might still need to be paid for in cash in future isn't in that list...
It was their major fear, if cash is no longer required, what purpose the ATM?
So all the work relating to contactless I did was "defensive" i.e. how does our machine still have a purpose in a cash free world.
Never really envisaged the rise in honesty box shops tbh.
I guess the behind the scenes comments refer to:
I give Clif bars to beggars, the way I'm not feeding anybody's drug/alcohol habit.
And I guess even there, it only applies at street level, with the mister bigs channelling the money through front business and so on.
Nah that's quite tame.
You need to get closer to the gutter.
I imagine the behind the scenes comments were referring to a baser, and much older trade.
That was one of them, my slip ups of referring to Coca-Cola as Coke in France is the subject of another other.
Joint bank accounts were also seen as a reason people might not want to spend by card in certain places.
Fish & Chips. Most of the chippys I've been in relieve you of cash only.
My local one has finally started taking card payments, they started around I think February.
One of the pubs in the village is only accepting cash for its take away meals. They've closed down all their electronics.
Ironically, this is the only pub where I routinely use a card for drinks purchases as it's rather expensive.
It is the only cash I've used since the lockdown started.
That's a bit odd, cash is a vector being passed between people, a card machine can be wiped down between usages.
I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
It's likely that physical cards will end up being phased out in favour of virtual things in phones.
One less thing for the banks to have to pay for and manage.
As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
Sounds like Gemalto.
There's plenty of things they can put their RFID chips into, including the active ones in phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemalto
Think it was their predecessor Gemplus we kind of worked with a bit, I can't remember if they were pushing the transition from sticking RFID chips in the back of Nokia 3330 cases to the active chips going in the phones electronics though. It was nearly around 18 years ago after all...
I don't think there is a car minimum any more (I could be completely wrong...) but the local Gifte Shoppe for trinkets, geegaws and cards prefers contactless. And the local farm shop too has removed it's £5 minimum for cards.
The idea was that the banks would charge less for card payments than the costs of banking money both in terms of cost at the bank and in personnel time to cash up and take it to the bank.
Having walked through the city centre with 3 grand of notes I'd cashed in order to buy change and walk back to the shop with considerably less than 3 grand in coins, I understand their aim.
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I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
It's likely that physical cards will end up being phased out in favour of virtual things in phones.
One less thing for the banks to have to pay for and manage.
As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
Sounds like Gemalto.
There's plenty of things they can put their RFID chips into, including the active ones in phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemalto
Think it was their predecessor Gemplus we kind of worked with a bit, I can't remember if they were pushing the transition from sticking RFID chips in the back of Nokia 3330 cases to the active chips going in the phones electronics though. It was nearly around 18 years ago after all...
Not Gemalto. This was a firm that makes the physical cards (and various ID systems for eg governments), when asked if they were worried about this part of their business declining due to the move to phones eSIMs, they said no, cos "the movement is from cash to card, not from card to phone." Which might be bluster or might be true, on a global basis; though I'm sure there will be parts of the world where the movement is from cash to phones with no intervening plastic cards.
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I’m quite sure that the ladies that asked me “Djuwaantbuzness” in Blythswood Square would have professed a desire for cash over card.
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I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
It's likely that physical cards will end up being phased out in favour of virtual things in phones.
One less thing for the banks to have to pay for and manage.
As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
Sounds like Gemalto.
There's plenty of things they can put their RFID chips into, including the active ones in phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemalto
Think it was their predecessor Gemplus we kind of worked with a bit, I can't remember if they were pushing the transition from sticking RFID chips in the back of Nokia 3330 cases to the active chips going in the phones electronics though. It was nearly around 18 years ago after all...
Not Gemalto. This was a firm that makes the physical cards (and various ID systems for eg governments), when asked if they were worried about this part of their business declining due to the move to phones eSIMs, they said no, cos "the movement is from cash to card, not from card to phone." Which might be bluster or might be true, on a global basis; though I'm sure there will be parts of the world where the movement is from cash to phones with no intervening plastic cards.
There's actually a large number of places in the UK you are forbidden to have a mobile device with you, that also have shops, cafes and the like. I don't imagine other countries are dissimilar. Surprisingly some of those places don't take cash either.
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I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
It's likely that physical cards will end up being phased out in favour of virtual things in phones.
One less thing for the banks to have to pay for and manage.
As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
Sounds like Gemalto.
There's plenty of things they can put their RFID chips into, including the active ones in phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemalto
Think it was their predecessor Gemplus we kind of worked with a bit, I can't remember if they were pushing the transition from sticking RFID chips in the back of Nokia 3330 cases to the active chips going in the phones electronics though. It was nearly around 18 years ago after all...
Not Gemalto. This was a firm that makes the physical cards (and various ID systems for eg governments), when asked if they were worried about this part of their business declining due to the move to phones eSIMs, they said no, cos "the movement is from cash to card, not from card to phone." Which might be bluster or might be true, on a global basis; though I'm sure there will be parts of the world where the movement is from cash to phones with no intervening plastic cards.
There's actually a large number of places in the UK you are forbidden to have a mobile device with you, that also have shops, cafes and the like. I don't imagine other countries are dissimilar. Surprisingly some of those places don't take cash either.
Apart from prisons/detention centres, I'm struggling to think of places where mobile phones are now banned in the UK.
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Before the lockdown I was virtually always paid in cash (music teaching and gigging). Most of that cash went back to pubs. Since the lockdown I've had no income and no visits to pubs so the cash that was in my wallet at the start (£155 as it happens) is still there. I'm looking forward to spending it sometime.
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I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
It's likely that physical cards will end up being phased out in favour of virtual things in phones.
One less thing for the banks to have to pay for and manage.
As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
Sounds like Gemalto.
There's plenty of things they can put their RFID chips into, including the active ones in phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemalto
Think it was their predecessor Gemplus we kind of worked with a bit, I can't remember if they were pushing the transition from sticking RFID chips in the back of Nokia 3330 cases to the active chips going in the phones electronics though. It was nearly around 18 years ago after all...
Not Gemalto. This was a firm that makes the physical cards (and various ID systems for eg governments), when asked if they were worried about this part of their business declining due to the move to phones eSIMs, they said no, cos "the movement is from cash to card, not from card to phone." Which might be bluster or might be true, on a global basis; though I'm sure there will be parts of the world where the movement is from cash to phones with no intervening plastic cards.
There's actually a large number of places in the UK you are forbidden to have a mobile device with you, that also have shops, cafes and the like. I don't imagine other countries are dissimilar. Surprisingly some of those places don't take cash either.
Apart from prisons/detention centres, I'm struggling to think of places where mobile phones are now banned in the UK.
Most government buildings
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I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
It's likely that physical cards will end up being phased out in favour of virtual things in phones.
One less thing for the banks to have to pay for and manage.
As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
Sounds like Gemalto.
There's plenty of things they can put their RFID chips into, including the active ones in phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemalto
Think it was their predecessor Gemplus we kind of worked with a bit, I can't remember if they were pushing the transition from sticking RFID chips in the back of Nokia 3330 cases to the active chips going in the phones electronics though. It was nearly around 18 years ago after all...
Not Gemalto. This was a firm that makes the physical cards (and various ID systems for eg governments), when asked if they were worried about this part of their business declining due to the move to phones eSIMs, they said no, cos "the movement is from cash to card, not from card to phone." Which might be bluster or might be true, on a global basis; though I'm sure there will be parts of the world where the movement is from cash to phones with no intervening plastic cards.
There's actually a large number of places in the UK you are forbidden to have a mobile device with you, that also have shops, cafes and the like. I don't imagine other countries are dissimilar. Surprisingly some of those places don't take cash either.
Apart from prisons/detention centres, I'm struggling to think of places where mobile phones are now banned in the UK.
Most government buildings
Really? I've been in and out of the MoD and a number of bases (most recently DNRC Stanford Hall), the DHSC and the Cabinet Office in recent months. I've been through security in each and never been asked about my mobile phone.
The only places in the last five years where I've had to surrender my phone were a prison and an immigration detention centre.
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I know a place where mobiles are not allowed. If I contact my friend that works there, I know I won't get a reply until after work.
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I've not jumped on the phone tap pay thing yet as I tend to work in places I can't have my phone, but contactless bank cards are a win for me, I went from a hulking great wallet to a tiny thing with 3 cards in it.
It's likely that physical cards will end up being phased out in favour of virtual things in phones.
One less thing for the banks to have to pay for and manage.
As for the phone pay thing, I heard a while back a French manufacturer of bank and sim cards claim they are not worried about the growth in phone and online payments. Which can be interpreted in many ways...
Sounds like Gemalto.
There's plenty of things they can put their RFID chips into, including the active ones in phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemalto
Think it was their predecessor Gemplus we kind of worked with a bit, I can't remember if they were pushing the transition from sticking RFID chips in the back of Nokia 3330 cases to the active chips going in the phones electronics though. It was nearly around 18 years ago after all...
Not Gemalto. This was a firm that makes the physical cards (and various ID systems for eg governments), when asked if they were worried about this part of their business declining due to the move to phones eSIMs, they said no, cos "the movement is from cash to card, not from card to phone." Which might be bluster or might be true, on a global basis; though I'm sure there will be parts of the world where the movement is from cash to phones with no intervening plastic cards.
There's actually a large number of places in the UK you are forbidden to have a mobile device with you, that also have shops, cafes and the like. I don't imagine other countries are dissimilar. Surprisingly some of those places don't take cash either.
Apart from prisons/detention centres, I'm struggling to think of places where mobile phones are now banned in the UK.
Most government buildings
Really? I've been in and out of the MoD and a number of bases (most recently DNRC Stanford Hall), the DHSC and the Cabinet Office in recent months. I've been through security in each and never been asked about my mobile phone.
The only places in the last five years where I've had to surrender my phone were a prison and an immigration detention centre.
The bits you went to.
There is quite a lot of government buildings, and some contractor buildings were the same rules apply. Sometimes you leave it a reception sometimes you have to leave it in the car park. The firm I work for make us leave them in lockers in reception because the government accreditors say that is what we must do, always have to check the rules before visiting a site.
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I know a place where mobiles are not allowed. If I contact my friend that works there, I know I won't get a reply until after work.
The reality is they're relatively few and far between these days.
We have got to the stage now where the government is banning the use of pagers in hospitals and mandating the use of mobile phones.
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I know a place where mobiles are not allowed. If I contact my friend that works there, I know I won't get a reply until after work.
When I worked in a bank you weren't allowed to use mobiles on the floor and you had to go into the adjoining corridor to have a conversation. The compliance team walked round the floor during the day to keep an eye on people.
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I know a place where mobiles are not allowed. If I contact my friend that works there, I know I won't get a reply until after work.
When I worked in a bank you weren't allowed to use mobiles on the floor and you had to go into the adjoining corridor to have a conversation. The compliance team walked round the floor during the day to keep an eye on people.
That's more the kind of place I expected to hear about, as well as sensitive industrial processes and similar.
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Sizewell nuclear power station prevents access with a phone. Some bits you used to be able to go in but they would put a sticker over the camera and check the sticker was still there at every security door but I haven't been there for ages. My work mate goes into the even more sensitive bits than I ever went in and he has to leave his phone in a locker at security.
There are a couple of oil refineries left in this country which have ATEX zones and a high risk of sparks causing a fire so you still can't take your phone in - the same rules do actually apply to petrol stations but no-one bothers anymore. I try to leave or at least go to the pump a long way from the person having a conversation whilst pumping flammable liquids into their car surrounded by vapour. Also, there are several manufacturing plants (pharmaceutical and petrochemical mostly but flour mills fall into the category) where ATEX applies due to dust environments and you don't want to be near a powder explosion.
The chances of a phone actually sparking a vapour or flammable dust are incredibly low but electrical equipment of any kind has to be rated to the zone it is being carried in. Also, in my petrol station comment above, phones are always on, receiving and sending data, as are the cars they are bluetooth'd to so presumably the hazard assessment on modern phones/cars etc for petrol stations has been done by the manufacturers but it will probably say somewhere the phone is kept in the car rather than being taken into the shop for use as a payment device.
Apart from petrol stations none of the places I list above use cash - the few that still have cafeterias aren't in zoned areas
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I know a place where mobiles are not allowed. If I contact my friend that works there, I know I won't get a reply until after work.
Spearmint Rhino?
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The chances of a phone actually sparking a vapour or flammable dust are incredibly low but electrical equipment of any kind has to be rated to the zone it is being carried in. Also, in my petrol station comment above, phones are always on, receiving and sending data, as are the cars they are bluetooth'd to so presumably the hazard assessment on modern phones/cars etc for petrol stations has been done by the manufacturers but it will probably say somewhere the phone is kept in the car rather than being taken into the shop for use as a payment device.
The intrinsically safe electronics rules make sense. It's just the irony of them applying somewhere where large, hot, statically charged machinery that's actually designed to generate high voltages with a view to igniting flammable liquids is operated by the general public makes it seem a bit silly.
Petrol stations are one of those things that will seem incredibly reckless with hindsight.
(The early car phones put out enough RF that they could probably upset a sufficiently electronic petrol pump up close and personal, so there was some logic there...)
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Really? I've been in and out of the MoD and a number of bases (most recently DNRC Stanford Hall), the DHSC and the Cabinet Office in recent months. I've been through security in each and never been asked about my mobile phone.
The only places in the last five years where I've had to surrender my phone were a prison and an immigration detention centre.
I've been in the Scottish Parliament a couple of times and IIRC the restriction was to turn it off.
Which of course means the RFId transmitter is also off.
We have got to the stage now where the government is banning the use of pagers in hospitals and mandating the use of mobile phones.
Isn't that to do with the creaking infrastructure they're paying to keep maintained to allow bleeps and pagers to keep working?
We're not meant to have phones on our desks... That's more to do with some people taking the piss.
As for petrol, wasn't that a Bramniac test?
Load a caravan up with jerry cans and see how many phones it took to make the thing explode.
They got their exploding caravan but it wasn't triggered by the phones IIRC.