Arrivée est arrivé!

[frankly frankie]

I kind of get the impression that the Arrivee team would like original submissions rather than just recycled internet content, is this the case? If it's not - then perhaps a thread here called "Arrivee Contributions" could be used - authors need only add a link to their online content and the Arrivee team could come and pick over the list whenever they need material.

I'm sure the Arrivee editors would be very happy with recyled internet content.  The point is it has to be 'pushed' to them - they are not going to go trawling for it.  Not only is that too much work, but then they would have to seek permission etc.  By having content pushed to them by the author, they know they have permission to publish.

I think this lady misunderstood some friendly banter

I think that's probably right.  The thing about banter is that you can often unwittingly catch someone in a bad moment.
"Is that your knees creaking or is it just your crank falling off?"

[Oscar's dad]

"Is that your knees creaking or is it just your crank falling off?"

"No, its my GPS bleeping at me to say we've both just missed a turning!"

[Jaded]

To me there is a clear message in printing the letter.

The majority of kilometres completed under the Audax banner are on 100km rides.
It takes a lot of effort to write a letter, compared with just not renewing or turning up ever again.

If Audax is to grow and thrive, then people have to start somewhere.

If you spend many of your summer hours around people that do 200, 300, 400, 600, 1200 km rides, then there is a serious risk that you start to think it is normal and anything else is abnormal. Then you are more likely to put others off.

[Veloman]

I think this lady misunderstood some friendly banter

I think that's probably right.  The thing about banter is that you can often unwittingly catch someone in a bad moment.
"Is that your knees creaking or is it just your crank falling off?"

Why is it her fault for misinterpreting?  We appear to be justifying the actions of others.

If we must make a comment, then make a comment that leaves no room for misinterpreting.

Regards the example of crank/knees, why even mention the knees!  Why not a pleasant “hello, how it going?”  Might even get a response that relates to the noise at which point help or a solution might be provided.  The crank/knees comment is ‘lose/lose’ for that person in that it either infers poor maintenance (crank) or deteriorating body (knees).  If the urge is so great to comment then how about self deprecating route of “gosh, my knees make a similar sound to that”.  Better still not to remind the rider of something that is probably annoying them and just comment without reference to the noise.  Let them introduce it rather than point something out they might even be embarrassed about.

[frankly frankie]

If we must make a comment, then make a comment that leaves no room for misinterpreting.

Hence the grim peaceful silence that I and many others prefer to maintain, whilst cycling.

[Julian]

Personally, dear, I wouldn't count it as a real audax unless I hammered a nail through my scrotum before starting

Oh dear, I don't remember reading that in the handbook so I went out to practice.

How do you repair a nailhole and remove blood from a Brooks Swift? 

Put a ring through the nailhole and keep the blood for posterity

[mattc]

If we must make a comment, then make a comment that leaves no room for misinterpreting.

The world would be a duller place.

[Julian]

I think we either accept what she said as true and the negative comments made about her using GPS was ‘cheating’ and riding distances that was ‘not worth starting for’, or we try to justify the comments made as being acceptable when put in context of being misinterpreted.  Personally, I accept what she said and welcome Mike’s response that makes it clear the comments were totally inappropriate.

Exactly that.

If someone has gone to the trouble of writing in to explain what has made them avoid a group, I would be very hesitant to dismiss them as oversensitive or lying. 

I think most grown-ups can tell the difference between well-intentioned banter and a put-down. 

[eeymsmo]

If we must make a comment, then make a comment that leaves no room for misinterpreting.

Hence the grim peaceful silence that I and many others prefer to maintain, whilst cycling.

Maybe next season's handbook could come with a set of laminated cards containing committee approved phrases? Obviously these would need to be in large enough type to be held up to a fellow audaxer to read, as we wouldn't want intonation or breathlessness (or lack of) to colour the message. 

[mrcharly-YHT]

Even with my limited experience, I can imagine saying "100km isn't even worth the effort". But for me, that would be because organising time off from family etc is just as difficult for a 100km ride as for a 250km ride - so I'd much rather do 250km than 100. The shorter distance really wouldn't seem worth the effort.

[Veloman]

If we must make a comment, then make a comment that leaves no room for misinterpreting.

The world would be a duller place.

All depends on your point of view and by that logic, unless it cannot be misinterpreted then it is dull.  Surely we can be more imaginative than that?

[mattc]

If someone has gone to the trouble of writing in to explain what has made them avoid a group, I would be very hesitant to dismiss them as oversensitive or lying. 

I think most grown-ups can tell the difference between well-intentioned banter and a put-down.

"most" is the key there.

I commend her for taking the trouble to write (as most of us just whinge about this stuff behind anonymous web IDs), and it proves she clearly saw a real problem. But that doesn't mean she correctly interpreted the comments.

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't - I wasn't there. But my best guess, based on experience of other riders and the fact that it's ABSURD to label GPS as cheating, is: Banter.

[mattc]

If we must make a comment, then make a comment that leaves no room for misinterpreting.

The world would be a duller place.

All depends on your point of view and by that logic, unless it cannot be misinterpreted then it is dull.  Surely we can be more imaginative than that?

There is no logic at all in your statement. Please review it, I hope you will see the flaw.

I wrote in plain English, I think you had to try very hard to misinterpret it so badly.

[Redlight]

given that Tim has also appealed for letters, perhaps members of this forum could put pen to paper (you know, like we used to in the old days) and try to fill a page in the next Arrivee with letters of support for newcomers, people who can only spare the time to ride 100s, slower riders, people who dare to have saddlebags on rides of fewer than 400km (for which I was once bantered), etc.  I shall be doing so.

[Julian]

But that doesn't mean she correctly interpreted the comments.

I wrote in plain English, I think you had to try very hard to misinterpret it so badly.

Oh, the juxtaposition.

My face it palms.

[mattc]

My face it palms.

Always a winning argument!

[pangolin]

Are letters of support for newcomers in a magazine that only members get much use? Similarly, is commending each other on the benefits of being welcoming in a forum that is mainly read by members much use? I suppose it encourages people to be nice when they meet these newcomers, but hopefully you see my point.

I'm doing a 400 on Saturday, and have only done 2 audaxes before (100 and 200). Everyone I spoke to on those Audaxes was friendly. A thread I started about the 400 got useful responses, especially from Martin.

However I now fear I shall be offended on Saturday, so I intend to purchase one of these scrolling message boards

http://www.amazon.co.uk/DESIGN-MATRIX-IBADGE-SCROLLING-MESSAGE/dp/B0076WCOTK/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1336554929&sr=1-1

I shall print out some shorthand codes that I will ask the organiser to hand out with brevet cards. These codes will then be proudly displayed just under my rear, informing approaching riders whether they may speak to me, and if so, whether they may make jokes.

I strongly suggest you all follow suit.

[Peter]

This only works if you can stay at the front for long enough!

Good luck on your ride!

[vorsprung]

Personally, dear, I wouldn't count it as a real audax unless I hammered a nail through my scrotum before starting and did the whole distance fuelled only by water and my own sense of martyrdom... kind of attitude.  It irks me.

Riding audax is just a bit of fun, regardless of the distance.
People riding 100km and looking a bit grim about it should be reminded of this occasionally
People riding vast distances should remember this at all times.
Audax doesn't make you important.

And even if it did, it's nice to be important but more important to be nice.

[Veloman]

If we must make a comment, then make a comment that leaves no room for misinterpreting.

The world would be a duller place.

All depends on your point of view and by that logic, unless it cannot be misinterpreted then it is dull.  Surely we can be more imaginative than that?

There is no logic at all in your statement. Please review it, I hope you will see the flaw.

I wrote in plain English, I think you had to try very hard to misinterpret it so badly.

Didn’t have to try ‘very hard’ at all.

The ‘world would be a duller place’ comment was in response to the proposition that if a comment has to be made then ensure it ‘leaves no room for misinterpreting’.  Therefore, the logical interpretation of the response is that comments that leave no room for misinterpretation are dull.

Anyway, time for a ride of less than 100km and with GPS.  Hope I don’t meet any of the ‘thoughtless people in AUK’ that Mike refers to.

[mattc]

The ‘world would be a duller place’ comment was in response to the proposition that if a comment has to be made then ensure it ‘leaves no room for misinterpreting’.  Therefore, the logical interpretation of the response is that comments that leave no room for misinterpretation are dull.

No, it quite clearly isn't.

Variety is the spice of life.

[ferret]

I've never been described as seedcorn before, I thought I was too old for that

when does one stop being a newbie ?

[Dinamo]

100 kms is a Long Distance to non-cyclists 

[Charlie Boy]

It's easy to forget what it was like starting out. I remember thinking that 100km seemed a long way, 200km seemed inconceivable and people riding an extra 10km each way to the start of a 200km were simply nutters.

The more bums on Brooks, the better, regardless of distance.

[Karla]

I think we either accept what she said as true and the negative comments made about her using GPS was ‘cheating’ and riding distances that was ‘not worth starting for’, or we try to justify the comments made as being acceptable when put in context of being misinterpreted.  Personally, I accept what she said and welcome Mike’s response that makes it clear the comments were totally inappropriate.

Exactly that.

If someone has gone to the trouble of writing in to explain what has made them avoid a group, I would be very hesitant to dismiss them as oversensitive or lying. 

I think most grown-ups can tell the difference between well-intentioned banter and a put-down.

On the one hand, my years on this forum have taught me that the world of audax includes some rude and nasty folk who will stop at nothing to put down and discourage other people 

On the other hand, we're all usually quite tired at the end of a long ride, so the potential both for misinterpreting and for being misinterpreted is quite high.    In all seriousness I've met some odd folk while out on rides, but I've also met some in normal life, so on a ride of 100 people I'll account the presence of odd/unpleasant folk to random variation.  Yes we need to be more welcoming, but we're never going to please everyone  and offence has to be taken as well as given.  The organiser isn't responsible for the interpersonal conduct of all the people on his ride.