Author Topic: Arrivée est arrivé!  (Read 471538 times)

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #300 on: 06 August, 2010, 01:18:29 pm »

PS another thing a good sub editor would do is check the names of contributors.

;D
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #301 on: 06 August, 2010, 01:22:32 pm »
Actually, a proper snappy introductory paragraph would be welcome for most articles - explaining briefly who the author is and what the article is about - but again it would require a sub editor to write it...

Very true. I made my suggestion as I thought it could be done without any extra labour* from the editorial team, and authors wouldn't need to do any extra thinking.

Truly talented writers could still work something snappy in by themselves.

*well, apart from initiating the protocol in the first place.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #302 on: 06 August, 2010, 01:29:56 pm »
I proofread part of Arrivée for Tim last year but have not been asked to do it again.
I don't know if he has others on the team, had enough time to do it all himself or disliked my style (or lack thereof).

Weirdy Biker

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #303 on: 06 August, 2010, 01:56:43 pm »
Love the picture that prefaces George Hannah's Raid Alpine article.  As I'm doing the ride next week, it gave me pangs of anticipation.

Found the Mont Ventoux article vaguely inspiring.  I might make my way down to Provence next year as a digestif to the main course Brevet Randonneurs des Alpes I plan to do in summer 2011.

Cyklisten

  • ... they came from the sea onto the land ...
    • Cyklisten Online
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #304 on: 06 August, 2010, 02:00:38 pm »
digestif ... a sportif with biscuits?  ;D
Ti små cyklister tog ud på cykeltur ...

SFACC Audax Champion 2010

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #305 on: 06 August, 2010, 02:28:14 pm »
It's on LEL innit?  So that's why he looks slightly...mangled...

I think it was taken at 60k :(

Anticipation then  ;D

Weirdy Biker

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #306 on: 06 August, 2010, 02:31:18 pm »
digestif ... a sportif with biscuits?  ;D

Isn't that an audax?

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #307 on: 06 August, 2010, 03:05:28 pm »
IME audax has Cakes :thumbsup:

and BRIDIES :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Viv

  • Are we having fun yet?
    • Lythgo
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #308 on: 06 August, 2010, 03:07:23 pm »
Quote
Actually, a proper snappy introductory paragraph would be welcome for most articles - explaining briefly who the author is and what the article is about

Quote
Found the Mont Ventoux article vaguely inspiring


I thought my intro panel was snappy and informative.
Glad it was "vaguely inspiring" at least! Go Frere Yacker - it's a magical place but it makes your legs hurt.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #309 on: 06 August, 2010, 03:32:26 pm »
I thought my intro panel was snappy and informative.

Yes, yours is spot on - a good example of the kind of thing I was getting at.

Quote
Glad it was "vaguely inspiring" at least! Go Frere Yacker - it's a magical place but it makes your legs hurt.

I see you have also mastered the rhetorical device meiosis. ;)

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Weirdy Biker

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #310 on: 06 August, 2010, 04:08:18 pm »

Glad it was "vaguely inspiring" at least! Go Frere Yacker - it's a magical place but it makes your legs hurt.

Being rather dour, vaguely inspiring is about as close to enthusing as I get.

I was sufficiently inspired to look at the cingles website and try to figure out how to get from BRA to Mont Ventoux.  And also to think about posting for interest within my local cycling club (as a member has already done it; he who wrote it up in C+ beclad in club colours).

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #311 on: 06 August, 2010, 04:47:05 pm »
Tim is a print professional so nothing is for want of know-how or skill.

Hmm... he may well be an expert in print production but his skills are perhaps slightly wanting in other areas of the production process... which isn't meant as a criticism. Far from it. All those involved in Arrivee do sterling work and I appreciate their efforts. It must be a mammoth task to put an issue together, and clearly a lot of time and energy is put into it - all unpaid too, I presume. Chapeau to all the editors.

Thing is, I have a certain amount of professional expertise myself and sometimes when I'm reading Arrivee, I find it hard to resist the urge to get the red pen out...

What's the editorial process behind an issue? Is there an editorial committee who decide what articles go in which issue? Is sub-editing and proofreading a team effort? Or is it a one-man job from beginning to end?

I'm contemplating the rash move of Getting Involved but I fear a greater level of commitment is involved than I may be able to offer.

d.

Citoyen

Francis is being very kind. I am not an expert in print production, I just worked in the printing industry as a typesetter and proof reader. Production for print was always handled by the other departments. I just bumble along trying to get it right.

There's not really an editorial process behind each issue. More often than not, editors are scrabbling round for copy to fill the pages and all the little gaps that are left when an article doesn't fit the page. You might have noticed that FOUR of the articles were written by one author and TWO by another. Good job they bothered to write, it would be down to a 32pp without them. You might also have noticed the excess of photos in the current issue. I was going to send 60pp instead of the normal 64p to the printers because of shortage of copy, but postponed publication for a few days while I travelled to photograph the Mille Cymru to fill the four remaining pages. It costs £100 more to print a 60pp mag than a 64pp mag, believe it or not.

Basically, nearly everything that gets sent in gets published. It is a club magazine after all, written by its members. Get the red pen out by all means but let us have your thoughts, don't just whinge on a forum. Compare the full colour A4 mag to the A5 b/w of a few years ago and see what you think. It takes many more hours to produce than the black and white mag of those days.

All the editing, sub-editing, typesetting, page make-up, scanning, typing, phone calls, emails, all the digital imaging that takes up many hours in PhotoShop, all the choosing and cropping of images to fit the page, pre-flighting, multiple hours to upload the lot to the printers' website and wait while their pre-flight software finds any errors - everything that goes into the magazine is the work of ONE person - the editor for that issue.

Yes, it would be nice to break up solid pages of text with more sub-heads and pull quotes, but very often that means the article spreads over to another page with a few lines of text on – not very practical. Subbing out a few lines will often ruin an article.

Same with the intros, most times there is a natural break before the article starts. For the Eiger Sanction, p.8, it just wouldn't fit in the usual style and the picture was the wrong shape to fill the page. "You can't always get what you want" to quote MJ.

There are lots of ways to improve the layout, but all these take up extra production time. The Calendar alone take the best part of a day to format and get into shape – maybe you have some ideas on how to speed that process up from a web-page file?

You could submit a nice new design for us - it's been in its present layout for a long time and could do with a make-over. It's a club magazine, it doesn't belong to the editors - get involved!

So, you would be welcomed aboard the editorial team to add your expertise. For a start, how about putting your money where your mouth is and taking over the advertising manager's job (currently held by me) - suit you sir! You will get a foot in the door of Arrivée production and who knows – editors can come and go as in any other AUK position.

Helen: I valued your proof reading for me last year when I was really pressed. I will be pleased to use your services again. If you would like to get more involved, with consent from Sheila and Maggie, maybe we could get all copy directed to you for each issue to edit, format and spell check so it reaches the editor ready to go.

David Martin: Apologies, I got your name wrong on p.1 credit, all done in a last minute rush. Thanks for all the super images you sent. As for cropping your mate out of the pic, all down to the shape of the image you sent. That was one of the few landscape mode shots that you submitted. Someone had to be cropped. Nearly all your others were portrait mode, which fit well into an A4 publication. Landscape pics don't fit into a 9 pics per page very easily.

I don't think we'll ever get our images how we really want them. A nice clear image from a digi camera arrives, it gets cropped, Photoshopped a bit, converted to CMYK which always changes the colours slightly, and then gets printed with only FOUR ink colours onto paper. You are viewing the image on your computer screen at millions of colours. A bit like recording hi-fi onto a cassette tape, and then making lots of duplicate tapes – something gets lost along the way. A high proportion of the images in the current issue don't resemble the colour, highlights and shadows I have on my calibrated monitor. I never know what it's going to look like until I receive a copy.

Tim


Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #312 on: 06 August, 2010, 05:05:22 pm »
There's not really an editorial process behind each issue. More often than not, editors are scrabbling round for copy to fill the pages and all the little gaps that are left when an article doesn't fit the page. You might have noticed that FOUR of the articles were written by one author and TWO by another. Good job they bothered to write, it would be down to a 32pp without them.

Last time I sent something in, it was not unrelated to hellymedic poking yacf around copy time. I think many of us could be persuaded with a bit of a nudge at the right time.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #313 on: 06 August, 2010, 05:23:08 pm »
Tim, I didn't mean for my comments to come across as whinging - more like thinking aloud. I'm off out now but I'll pm you later re doing something more constructive than just picking holes on a web forum...

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #314 on: 06 August, 2010, 06:28:04 pm »
I'd like to echo my sincere thanks for Tim doing what is often an undervalued job. I can't really complain about errors as I sent you incorrect copy (sorry Judy!)

I was wondering how to make things better at my end if I am sending you photos rather than carping on. And I must write up some articles too..

I think the manta is "submit early, submit often and if you can't generate copy, help to lay it up/proofread/subedit if you have those skills" 

Again many many thanks to Tim and the other editors for the many weeks of work they put into each issue.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #315 on: 06 August, 2010, 07:32:12 pm »
Our Arrivee has still not arrived :(
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #316 on: 06 August, 2010, 08:49:04 pm »
There must be something wrong with my copy - no pictures of Martin Malins.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Martin

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #317 on: 06 August, 2010, 08:49:46 pm »
Welcome to YACF Tim  :)

Martin

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #318 on: 06 August, 2010, 08:53:32 pm »
There must be something wrong with my copy - no pictures of Martin Malins.

(blows raspberry)

I did send the ones taken in ESH to Tim but he must have mislaid them

I'm not saddened having seen the ones of me on The Crown  :-[ (btw Paul H of EGCC makes his debut)

eck

  • Gonna ride my bike until I get home...
    • Angus Bike Chain CC
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #319 on: 06 August, 2010, 09:02:27 pm »
Our Arrivee has still not arrived :(
Worth waiting for. (See p52)  ;)
It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #320 on: 06 August, 2010, 09:03:01 pm »
Grr!
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

MercuryKev

  • Maxin' n Audaxin'
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #321 on: 06 August, 2010, 09:07:42 pm »

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #322 on: 07 August, 2010, 11:06:03 am »
I love the photo inside the front cover. Great landscape, and you can see exactly why there are such wonderful expressions on the riders too  :)

arabella

  • عربللا
  • onwendeð wyrda gesceaft weoruld under heofonum
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #323 on: 07 August, 2010, 01:44:41 pm »
I've already cut out the picture of MattC and blu-tacked it onto my bedroom wall à la Smash Hits.
I haven't.  But then I never blu-tacked Smash hits to my bedroom wall either. (blutack made the paint fall off the wall).

Nice article, Viv.  Tho' I'm not tempted to follow suit.
Any fool can admire a mountain.  It takes real discernment to appreciate the fens.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #324 on: 07 August, 2010, 07:58:51 pm »
Meh, still didn't come today :(
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.