Author Topic: Arrivée est arrivé!  (Read 473477 times)

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #650 on: 09 May, 2011, 01:40:20 pm »
Some of the articles are rather long and can be a somewhat hard / repetitive read. I fear this is a consequence of narrative reports of long distance cycling.

Its also because the Editors are, very understandably, reluctant to actually edit. 
They are editors more in the sense of selecting which articles to include, but I don't think they do much to 'improve' submissions, however necessary it might be!
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #651 on: 09 May, 2011, 01:52:05 pm »
Its also because the Editors are, very understandably, reluctant to actually edit. 

I think it's very important that one knows if a submission will be edited or not. Writers are frequently irritated by edits.

Having said that, if we had the services of qualified* editors-not-compilers , Arrivee would be improved a lot. (n.b. for those determined to misunderstand - I'm not criticising the work of the actual "Editors", past or present).

Some of our writers are great, and I enjoy every word - some are less gifted, but still have a good story to tell. I find myself skim-reading their reports, looking for some actual facts/incidents.

Dunno how this would work in the real world. I'd be happy to submit an article, then receive the edited version for pre-approval.

*(is there an NVQ in it?)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #652 on: 09 May, 2011, 01:55:44 pm »
...
In my opinion, all this 'PBP stuff' could go on the website because its ONLY of interest to those members who are riding the PBP.
...

Ah but despite having no intention of riding PBP, as a cyclist I find the articles about preparing for it and riding it very interesting...
Let your mind unravel ... down that road you're travellin' ...

AndyH

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #653 on: 09 May, 2011, 01:58:39 pm »
Warning: Alouicious-related post:

(click to show/hide)

;D I haven't read much from Alouicious since I discovered how to work the ignore button

AUK have set themselves up to be the No. 1 Ultracycling club in this Nation.
What do they do next?
Well the situation in the Middle East is a bit worrying, maybe they could lend a hand there.



marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #654 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:05:19 pm »
Maybe I should get the Cub to write up his next one and send it in :)

About the start of his prep for PBP 2023?   ;D
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #655 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:06:25 pm »
...
In my opinion, all this 'PBP stuff' could go on the website because its ONLY of interest to those members who are riding the PBP.
...

Ah but despite having no intention of riding PBP, as a cyclist I find the articles about preparing for it and riding it very interesting...

Its a long time ago now but what first piqued my interest in long distance cycling/cycle touring* was an account of travelling round the northern coast of Norway to Murmansk (yes I know Murmansk is in Russia).  Who knows maybe one day... but first, PBP.

Number of cycle journeys with tent completed todate: 1 (To beyond darkest Chepstow for 'Not The Royal Wedding Party'. Thinking about it, not that different to Murmansk, being far away in mountinous cold for'n parts)

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #656 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:27:28 pm »
A few (late) thoughts, written from the position of someone who has edited a magazine professionally in the past.

First, let's not lose sight of the fact that Arrivee has improved considerably over the last 12 years or so. When I first joined AUK it resembled a school magazine, with typed copy and line illustrations and full of in-jokes.  There was little advertising, if any.  It reflected poorly on the organisation. Now it looks like a proper magazine, generally well laid-out and printed, an ever-improving set of photos and a respectable amount of advertising. Improvements in design and printing technology have helped, but can't distract from the fact that the content has also improved.

On the content, as FF says below, so far as I can see the editors tend not to sub-edit the articles that are submitted.  That's not surprising, given that they are reliant on the generosity of contributors who are willing to spend time writing for free, but it can result in pieces that are over-long, poorly written or just downright tedious. Certainly, I don't think any of the pieces I have written have been changed, but I would not have objected had they been. If people are precious about their copy they can ask for amends to checked with them, provided that they commit to responding quickly.

A second consideration is that some contributors appear not to have read the very useful guidelines in the handbook and on the web site about writing for Arrivee. I confess that I hadn't the first time I submitted a piece and it would have been a better piece had I done so. That might result in fewer accounts along the "we stopped at the first control to get our cards stamped and had a cup of tea and two slices of cake" variety. (I recall Mrs Miles had something to say about this a couple of years ago but I can't find the item.)  I like a piece that will either entice me to try a ride (and include some useful information) or tells of a particularly unusual or interesting series of events - as in the 50% mechanical thread on this board, for example. 

On whether we need more articles about BPs rather than permanents, I suspect the reality might be that people who have time to ride lots of perms may also have more time on their hands to write articles. I don't think distance is an issue except to the extent that the slightly macho attitude that one occasionally encounters  may put off people who have interesting things to say but feel that their achievements may not be considered worthy of an article. As has been said below, an informative or entertaining piece is still an informative or entertaining piece regardless of the distance being written about, so I'd encourage people to write about 100s as much as about 1200s.  Hell, I could do 500 words on my 12km commute some days!

Which leads me to my suggestions.  First, to the editors, please feel empowered to edit pieces. Second,  add word counts to the guidance and encourage contributors to think in terms of 600 words, 1,000 words, etc. That makes production easier too.  Finally, if it isn't already happening, it would be good to see more commissioning of pieces, as has clearly happened with the PBP advice articles in this quarter's edition. I know Tim has occasionally taken leads from this forum to generate articles and I'd encourage more of that.

Overall, I think we should be proud of the mag, considering what a small club we are numerically, and the editors do a great job for little or no thanks (as well as some bitching). I think it's worth the annual membership fee alone.  All we need now, to achieve its  full glory, is for it to be the guest publication on Have I Got News For You.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #657 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:33:04 pm »
Cycle-camping in the Arctic Circle in summer is not that exotic. Even I have done it.
By myself.
Before I joined Audax UK.

In many ways, it was easier than cycling in the north of England: no darkness, few oiks, no sexual harrassment...

hulver

  • I am a mole and I live in a hole.
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #658 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:33:56 pm »
One of the main reasons I joined Audax UK was to get Arrivée. I'd read here about the rides people had done, and done a couple of rides myself. I felt like I was missing out on an important part of AUK by not reading the mag, and I do enjoy it. It's got a good mix of stuff in it.

Some I don't read, some I do. It's usually entertaining, sometimes in a "those people are mad" type of way.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #659 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:37:16 pm »
  Finally, if it isn't already happening, it would be good to see more commissioning of pieces, as has clearly happened with the PBP advice articles in this quarter's edition. I know Tim has occasionally taken leads from this forum to generate articles and I'd encourage more of that.



+1 The collation and organisation of the PBP articles is exceptionally well done in this issue.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #660 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:42:49 pm »
CrinklyCub's first audax would surely be Arrivée-worthy (with a bit of editing). There aren't many articles about 50s.

oldpeddler

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #661 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:47:41 pm »
A few (late) thoughts, written from the position of someone who has edited a magazine professionally in the past.

First, let's not lose sight of the fact that Arrivee has improved considerably over the last 12 years or so. When I first joined AUK it resembled a school magazine, with typed copy and line illustrations and full of in-jokes.  There was little advertising, if any.  It reflected poorly on the organisation. Now it looks like a proper magazine, generally well laid-out and printed, an ever-improving set of photos and a respectable amount of advertising. Improvements in design and printing technology have helped, but can't distract from the fact that the content has also improved.

On the content, as FF says below, so far as I can see the editors tend not to sub-edit the articles that are submitted.  That's not surprising, given that they are reliant on the generosity of contributors who are willing to spend time writing for free, but it can result in pieces that are over-long, poorly written or just downright tedious. Certainly, I don't think any of the pieces I have written have been changed, but I would not have objected had they been. If people are precious about their copy they can ask for amends to checked with them, provided that they commit to responding quickly.

A second consideration is that some contributors appear not to have read the very useful guidelines in the handbook and on the web site about writing for Arrivee. I confess that I hadn't the first time I submitted a piece and it would have been a better piece had I done so. That might result in fewer accounts along the "we stopped at the first control to get our cards stamped and had a cup of tea and two slices of cake" variety. (I recall Mrs Miles had something to say about this a couple of years ago but I can't find the item.)  I like a piece that will either entice me to try a ride (and include some useful information) or tells of a particularly unusual or interesting series of events - as in the 50% mechanical thread on this board, for example. 

On whether we need more articles about BPs rather than permanents, I suspect the reality might be that people who have time to ride lots of perms may also have more time on their hands to write articles. I don't think distance is an issue except to the extent that the slightly macho attitude that one occasionally encounters  may put off people who have interesting things to say but feel that their achievements may not be considered worthy of an article. As has been said below, an informative or entertaining piece is still an informative or entertaining piece regardless of the distance being written about, so I'd encourage people to write about 100s as much as about 1200s.  Hell, I could do 500 words on my 12km commute some days!

Which leads me to my suggestions.  First, to the editors, please feel empowered to edit pieces. Second,  add word counts to the guidance and encourage contributors to think in terms of 600 words, 1,000 words, etc. That makes production easier too.  Finally, if it isn't already happening, it would be good to see more commissioning of pieces, as has clearly happened with the PBP advice articles in this quarter's edition. I know Tim has occasionally taken leads from this forum to generate articles and I'd encourage more of that.

Overall, I think we should be proud of the mag, considering what a small club we are numerically, and the editors do a great job for little or no thanks (as well as some bitching). I think it's worth the annual membership fee alone.  All we need now, to achieve its  full glory, is for it to be the guest publication on Have I Got News For You.
Sounds like you'll be happy to know I won't be contributing anymore articles to Arrivee as some of them include the tedious "what we have eaten at a control.
Sorry if I bored several people with the articles but I now stand aside and let the experts have a go. Gordon Jones

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #662 on: 09 May, 2011, 02:52:00 pm »
CrinklyCub's first audax would surely be Arrivée-worthy (with a bit of editing). There aren't many articles about 50s.

+1

And may well encourage other littluns to give it a go - this could do amazing things for the average age calculation for rides!
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #663 on: 09 May, 2011, 03:01:57 pm »

Sounds like you'll be happy to know I won't be contributing anymore articles to Arrivee as some of them include the tedious "what we have eaten at a control.
Sorry if I bored several people with the articles but I now stand aside and let the experts have a go. Gordon Jones
[/quote]
FWIW I really enjoyed your report "Wesley May Super Grimpeur" - hope the rib cage has healed!

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #664 on: 09 May, 2011, 03:04:19 pm »
CrinklyCub's first audax would surely be Arrivée-worthy (with a bit of editing). There aren't many articles about 50s.

This is a brilliant suggestion, IMO. I'd love to get my boys on some rides. Seeing how it is done is dead helpful.

I love reading Arrivee. I'd rather the accounts were warts and all, and don't mind reading about what people eat.

I have to say, I am amazed at what people can recall about their rides. I find I can only recall what I've eaten. FWIW, I'm really enjoying To Be A Puddle. I wish I could write about rides like she does.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #665 on: 09 May, 2011, 03:10:24 pm »
CrinklyCub's first audax would surely be Arrivée-worthy (with a bit of editing). There aren't many articles about 50s.

+1

And may well encourage other littluns to give it a go - this could do amazing things for the average age calculation for rides!

Mebbees... but it's got rather a lot of forum-specific in-jokes.  As an example, outside of this place, who would get what an NTSTN-rating is?  

oldpeddler - I haven't read all of the magazine yet, and it's only the first one that's popped through the letterbox in the CrinklyDen so can't really comment on any particular RRs, but I don't think that anyone is particularly critical of the existing contributions.  Just reflecting on the fact that maybe it would be worth thinking about the best way of editing submitted articles in future.  I can see that it could be a tricky balance to find, when the magazine is dependant on the goodwill of people writing up rides for the love of it.  For what it's worth, I can say that I really like the RR board on here and the fact that it has a very broad range both of rides described and ways of describing them.  And I, personally, do like descriptions of CAKE.  Photographs are better though  :P

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #666 on: 09 May, 2011, 03:13:53 pm »
Is it just me, or is Arrivee seriously raising its game recently? Useful articles, interesting photography, brilliant stuff!

Yes, Arrivee is a worthwhile magazine.

HK and I are relaxing before starting the Texas 1200 and our host is a longtime Randonneurs USA and Ultra Marathon Cycling Association member.  He was very impressed by the latest Arrivee, compared to the respective USA publications.  I agree with him but it would be nice if editors sometimes edited submitted articles.  Anything I write needs the red pencil taken to it.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #667 on: 09 May, 2011, 03:20:59 pm »

Sounds like you'll be happy to know I won't be contributing anymore articles to Arrivee as some of them include the tedious "what we have eaten at a control.
Sorry if I bored several people with the articles but I now stand aside and let the experts have a go. Gordon Jones

I enjoyed your Article and will probably enter the Wesley May Grimpeur in September.
If you had'nt written the article I wouldn't have known the route, which includes the loop to Cwmllynfell that I did as a 15 year old on my 5 speed Raleigh Arena :)
I didn't think RLight was being personal.
BTW the Bynea rides are easy to get to be rail, but avoid the last train to Swansea on your way home -
or cycle back for the ECE



AikenDrum

  • Lurker at the gate
    • Audax Kernow
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #668 on: 09 May, 2011, 04:12:19 pm »
My favourite article so far in the spring edition is the 1000km east-to-west ride.  I love the easy carelessness with which the ride sounds so relaxing - despite sleeping in the open.  I have no desire to do the same thing - but what an excellent write up and a rivetting read.  I'm inspired to ride the same route - just not to the same schedule.

Cheers  :thumbsup: Glad you enjoyed my ramblings.

It's a great ride and would make a very nice 7 day tour, if you wanted to take your time and use B&B's or take a tent.
London's burning with boredom now

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #669 on: 09 May, 2011, 04:18:52 pm »


My favourite article so far in the spring edition is the 1000km east-to-west ride.  I love the easy carelessness with which the ride sounds so relaxing - despite sleeping in the open.  I have no desire to do the same thing - but what an excellent write up and a rivetting read.  I'm inspired to ride the same route

Ditto.  I have been wondering about that route too. The article may just be enough to get me of my ars* and ride it some time in the future. 
Organiser of Droitwich Cycling Club audaxes.  https://www.droitwichcyclingclub.co.uk/audax/

oldpeddler

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #670 on: 09 May, 2011, 04:23:31 pm »

Sounds like you'll be happy to know I won't be contributing anymore articles to Arrivee as some of them include the tedious "what we have eaten at a control.
Sorry if I bored several people with the articles but I now stand aside and let the experts have a go. Gordon Jones

I enjoyed your Article and will probably enter the Wesley May Grimpeur in September.
If you had'nt written the article I wouldn't have known the route, which includes the loop to Cwmllynfell that I did as a 15 year old on my 5 speed Raleigh Arena :)
I didn't think RLight was being personal.
BTW the Bynea rides are easy to get to be rail, but avoid the last train to Swansea on your way home -
or cycle back for the ECE



Thanks Ian, much appreciated.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #671 on: 09 May, 2011, 04:41:05 pm »
The perfect Arrivee (or even year of Arrivees) would contain a balanced variety of Ride Reports.

All that detail about card-stamping, tea and cake works really well in a  "My First Audax" sort of article. But we don't need reports like that every issue.

Equally, if every report featured 1000s of km ridden with a broken shifter etc, I'd get bored of that sort of thing too (and it would give a skewed picture of our members' riding).

(Perhaps this is something "editors" could help with, in Perfect Arrivée Nirvana.)

Selfish request:
I find RRs more useful with some good route summary info. (Especially with the (non-DIY) perms, or rides we don't hear much about.) Preferably using town names I can find on a map, not "the left-turn after the Cross Ducks" or "a reverse of the last leg of Sid's defunct 300" or "the control atop Smog Hill" (where such name is only known to locals).
Link to an online route would be great (especially for those reading online!)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #672 on: 09 May, 2011, 05:20:19 pm »
The perfect Arrivee (or even year of Arrivees) would contain a balanced variety of Ride Reports.

All that detail about card-stamping, tea and cake works really well in a  "My First Audax" sort of article. But we don't need reports like that every issue.

Equally, if every report featured 1000s of km ridden with a broken shifter etc, I'd get bored of that sort of thing too (and it would give a skewed picture of our members' riding).

(Perhaps this is something "editors" could help with, in Perfect Arrivée Nirvana.)

Selfish request:
I find RRs more useful with some good route summary info. (Especially with the (non-DIY) perms, or rides we don't hear much about.) Preferably using town names I can find on a map, not "the left-turn after the Cross Ducks" or "a reverse of the last leg of Sid's defunct 300" or "the control atop Smog Hill" (where such name is only known to locals).
Link to an online route would be great (especially for those reading online!)

+1 for maps & links to GPX routes where available. Even a simple overview diagram will suffice to give a visual clue of the route for the geographically challenged. Can you point to Comrie or Scunthorpe on a map? I can't, and I'm not really sure about Didcot, tbh.

shyumu

  • Paying my TV license by cheque since 1993
    • Balancing on Two Wheels
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #673 on: 09 May, 2011, 05:53:50 pm »
It's a great ride and would make a very nice 7 day tour, if you wanted to take your time and use B&B's or take a tent.

The route appeals - and the fact that your read about it in #62 and have now done it... congrats.  But doing it as an audax would be...um... well, let me put it this way; I'm sure you got all the controls and all the evidence of having done it within the time limit, it's just that comparing the Lowestoft photo with the Ardnamurchan photo you look 10 years older.  Tell me, are audaxes that bad for you?  :P

But thanks again for the write up - and everyone who writes up their experiences.  Shared experiences, or vicariously shared experiences make the magazine the enjoyable companion to coffee that it is.

(edit: I've not worded this very well, I intended to tease rather than be rude and I can't work out if I've got the balance right.  Thank goodness for smilies.(edit:oops - another faux pas))
a journal of bicycle rides I have enjoyed:

http://balancingontwowheels.blogspot.co.uk/

AikenDrum

  • Lurker at the gate
    • Audax Kernow
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #674 on: 09 May, 2011, 06:24:09 pm »
It's a great ride and would make a very nice 7 day tour, if you wanted to take your time and use B&B's or take a tent.

The route appeals - and the fact that your read about it in #62 and have now done it... congrats.  But doing it as an audax would be...um... well, let me put it this way; I'm sure you got all the controls and all the evidence of having done it within the time limit, it's just that comparing the Lowestoft photo with the Ardnamurchan photo you look 10 years older.  Tell me, are audaxes that bad for you?  :P

How dare you!  :demon:

Nah, it was just a bit windy, and my hair was in serious need of a trim.  ;D
London's burning with boredom now