Author Topic: VR Training (Read 33624 times)

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #100 on:** 04 April, 2016, 08:42:00 am »

I'm coming late to this party, having just ordered a Tacx Neo after deciding I need to make a big effort to halt (or delay) the alarming age-related decline in my already limited cycling ability!
The most daunting aspect, to me, is the software. I have the problem of a rural (i.e. totally inadequate) broadband and mobile network service so that everything I use needs to be offline and on my desktop. In addition, the Neo will be set up in an outbuilding and out of reach of my house LAN/wi-fi.
I presently have Garmin Edge 705 and 1000 GPSes for use on the road and I believe these can probably be used to control the Neo. But I also have an early Nexus 7 Android tablet which I think might do the job; but this is getting unreliable and I'm thinking of replacing it. But I can't decide whether to stick with Android or switch to Apple/iPad or a Win 10 laptop. The Neo software issue may well influence this decision.
I don't usually fare well with coping with complex (to me!) software relationships and I like to keep things as simple as possible, so ordinarily I'd just stick with the manufacturer's stuff. But there's quite a lot of comment indicating that the Tacx software (the Win PC stuff I think) is very poor.
So my question is: given the offline requirement, what device would be best for use as a head unit to control the Neo and enable the capture and transfer of workout data to my desktop?

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #101 on:** 04 April, 2016, 11:18:06 am »

I would go with trainerroad, an ANT stick and your normal cadence and speed sensors.

Trainer road will work perfectly well offline. You can buy a couple of sufferfest videos or download some footage off the internet. the sufferfest videos are incredibly motivating despite being as cheesy as can be.

Tax Neo, trainer road and sufferfest really work well together. I have the exact step but I am online. The system will cache the results and upload whenever you bring the device into wifi range. You do not need win 10 and it will work pretty well on most simple laptops. The trainerroad app doesn't show the videos and the sufferfest app is treating only, I believe.

I would strongly recommend not using the Tacx software. it is according to everybody I have read still incredibly buggy and poor quality.

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #102 on:** 04 April, 2016, 12:02:43 pm »

OK Chris, that's helpful, thanks. I hadn't realised the TrainerRoad stuff could be used offline. I guess it's still a subscription service though, rather than a 'buy-it-once' thing like Training Peaks can be? (I suppose I should be less lazy and try to look all this up, but I'm so confused by all the jargon!)

I hear what you say about the videos. At present, I'm sceptical but I've read comments from people who've said they didn't think they'd be interested until they tried them but then quickly got hooked, so I should probably try it out!

Ham · « **Reply #103 on:** 04 April, 2016, 12:34:19 pm »

Sufferfest vids along with TR controlling the trainer are way, way ahead of Tacx "Real life" videos - a reminder, real life is boring

simonp · « **Reply #104 on:** 04 April, 2016, 03:26:42 pm »

TrainingPeaks is an annual subscription for me. If I had to choose between TrainerRoad and TrainingPeaks, I'd choose TrainerRoad. There is some other trainer software out there, but TrainerRoad has served me very well.

I've never used sufferfest or zwift or similar.

Chris S · « **Reply #105 on:** 04 April, 2016, 03:32:29 pm »

I've taken my first tentative step into this murky world.

I've ordered an ANT+ dongle for my laptop

.

simonp · « **Reply #106 on:** 04 April, 2016, 04:20:33 pm »

Quote from: Chris S on 04 April, 2016, 03:32:29 pm

I've taken my first tentative step into this murky world.

I've ordered an ANT+ dongle for my laptop .

indeed.

Which route are you going?

For anyone considering TrainerRoad - I have 4 free 1-month referrals to give away* with them, if anyone wants to give it a try. You'll need suitable equipment, of course. That's far and away the largest cost in my case, though the bike(s) I use with it cost a lot more.

* As far as I know, there's no incentive for me in this.

Chris S · « **Reply #107 on:** 04 April, 2016, 04:30:38 pm »

Quote from: simonp on 04 April, 2016, 04:20:33 pm

Quote from: Chris S on 04 April, 2016, 03:32:29 pm
I've taken my first tentative step into this murky world.

I've ordered an ANT+ dongle for my laptop .

indeed.

Which route are you going?

~~Tacx Neo~~ <- Talked myself down from that!

Initially just going to get basic metrics off the current turbo/bike combo (it has Garmin speed/cadence fitted) - probably into Zwift or TrainerRoads (undecided which).

However, I'm very much aware that a reproducible output from my cheapo Cycleops trainer is not feasible, so I'll probably need to upgrade that - possibly a Tacx Vortex (really can't justify the Neo - I just don't need that level of sophistication).

I'm looking for dependable metrics - including virtual power, but on a budget because ultimately I prefer to ride my bikes outside, not in the garage or a bedroom.

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #108 on:** 04 April, 2016, 04:53:24 pm »

Quote from: simonp on 04 April, 2016, 04:20:33 pm

..............
For anyone considering TrainerRoad - I have 4 free 1-month referrals to give away* with them, if anyone wants to give it a try. You'll need suitable equipment, of course.

Yes please, if I can book one of these trials. It'll take me a while to get things set up, but if I can come back to you in a while, t'would be much appreciated.

simonp · « **Reply #109 on:** 04 April, 2016, 04:56:41 pm »

Quote from: PloddinPedro on 04 April, 2016, 04:53:24 pm

Quote from: simonp on 04 April, 2016, 04:20:33 pm
..............
For anyone considering TrainerRoad - I have 4 free 1-month referrals to give away* with them, if anyone wants to give it a try. You'll need suitable equipment, of course.

Yes please, if I can book one of these trials. It'll take me a while to get things set up, but if I can come back to you in a while, t'would be much appreciated.

Done. When you want to go ahead, PM me your email.

simonp · « **Reply #110 on:** 04 April, 2016, 06:32:17 pm »

I'm doing the Sustainable Power Build plan from TrainerRoad now. I've decided to step up to the high volume plan.

I need to work around the rowing sessions, so might drop or move TR sessions to keep things sane. TR has today as a rest day, I might do a gentle half hour this evening to help with recovery from Saturday, however.

Tomorrow I have a 60-minute supra-threshold intervals session, which will I imagine be quite tough. As I have an on the water rowing session in the evening, I think I'll have to do it before breakfast.

I suspect I'll skip either a bike or rowing machine session on Thursday as my predicted training stress balance for Saturday is a bit low i.e. I'll be overly fatigued for Yr Elenydd.

Chris S · « **Reply #111 on:** 08 April, 2016, 02:34:30 pm »

Well. That was fun. A trainer that bites back. Ouch!

Currently using the 14 day trial of PerfPro Studio, rather than an online app. Ooohh ALL the stats!

Probably shouldn't have just guessed my FTP though

.

DrMekon · « **Reply #112 on:** 10 April, 2016, 06:39:08 am »

I don't know anything about the other software, but I can say that Zwift isn't boring - it's actually fun. I really don't mind doing 100km on it, particularly if mates are on too. However, it wants a fairly new PC, a reasonable graphics card, and a steady net connection. Even then, it can be tempting to go the full on gaming PC route for 4k graphics. I suspect those of you handy with PCs could replicate the low end alien ware box that runs zwift well quite cheaply.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

simonp · « **Reply #113 on:** 17 April, 2016, 08:55:50 pm »

Did 'Sill' in TR this morning. Close to failing but got to the end. So FTP is probably about right.

simonp · « **Reply #114 on:** 19 April, 2016, 03:31:51 pm »

Ansel Adams today. With FTP at 280W that means 3 sets of 8 times 50s at 378W, with 50s rest.

Pretty tough, but do-able.

simonp · « **Reply #115 on:** 21 April, 2016, 12:03:36 pm »

I created a yacf team on TrainerRoad.

https://www.trainerroad.com/teams/4428-yacf

jiberjaber · « **Reply #116 on:** 22 April, 2016, 02:24:56 am »

Quote from: simonp on 21 April, 2016, 12:03:36 pm

I created a yacf team on TrainerRoad.

https://www.trainerroad.com/teams/4428-yacf

Chris S · « **Reply #117 on:** 27 April, 2016, 12:04:44 pm »

I just finished a 14 day / 50km trial of Zwift. I don't think I'll be carrying on with it - it doesn't seem to add anything I'm looking for, and I found its control over the turbo annoying rather than helpful.

PerfPro Studio provides all the feedback and monitoring I need, and fboab can use it too (should she take up indoor cycling again) and that immediately halves its cost - which isn't that much anyway ($99 for three users).

Ultimately, I'm not looking for an "Outdoor Simulator" - I'm looking for (reasonably) accurate monitoring of structured training.

citoyen · « **Reply #118 on:** 27 April, 2016, 12:31:15 pm »

Quote from: Chris S on 27 April, 2016, 12:04:44 pm

Ultimately, I'm not looking for an "Outdoor Simulator" - I'm looking for (reasonably) accurate monitoring of structured training.

My limited experience of smart trainers is that the technology is still a long way off being "outdoor simulator" levels and you're best off using them for what they're good at, which is accurate monitoring of structured training.

I do enjoy the gamification aspect of smart trainers though. I would definitely buy a Kickr if I could afford it, or maybe even a Wattbike if I had space for it. I had a Bkool for a while and it was OK but wheel slippage is a problem. Direct drive models are definitely the way forward.

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #119 on:** 27 April, 2016, 01:24:26 pm »

Quote from: Chris S on 27 April, 2016, 12:04:44 pm

................. PerfPro Studio provides all the feedback and monitoring I need, .......

I haven't yet managed to get PerfPRO to connect to the trainer yet. I got TrainerRoad going quite easily (thanks Simonp) and am exploring that, but the DC Rainmaker review reported favourably on PerfPRO too, so I was curious.
To be honest, both tools are way above my head at the moment, so the question's academic really, but what aspects are you focussing on in the 'monitoring' side of things.

Chris S · « **Reply #120 on:** 28 April, 2016, 11:36:34 am »

Quote from: PloddinPedro on 27 April, 2016, 01:24:26 pm

...but what aspects are you focussing on in the 'monitoring' side of things.

It's very early days, and I'm still working out at a very sedate level. I'm exploring ways of measuring improvements in my aerobic base. So I'm looking at things like power (virtual power, in this case), and measuring power at low (aerobic) heart rates, HR drift and decoupling factor; that kind of thing.

I'm interested in seeing the effects of extended sub-aerobic threshold (eg: Maffetone) training alongside a LCHF/Keto diet, with a view to being able to ride a non-hilly (ie, <= 1% ascent) 200 with a HR <=130 bpm (I'm usually around 150/160 on a 200).

Sorry for the wanky answer - you did ask!

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #121 on:** 28 April, 2016, 09:39:11 pm »

Quote from: Chris S on 28 April, 2016, 11:36:34 am

...........Sorry for the wanky answer - you did ask!

Not at tall; t'is interesting. You're back on the ketones then -

I've finally made some progress this year, dropping a bit of weight, but I know a lot of it has been lean mass loss. I have to find a way to get the power side back up, hence the new trainer. Just have to figure out the best plan!

simonp · « **Reply #122 on:** 28 April, 2016, 10:03:22 pm »

In TrainerRoad I'd say the best plan to start with, if you follow one of theirs, is sweet spot base. Older riders may have to throw in additional recovery weeks and perhaps avoid the high volume plan.

Things I track:

FTP, weight, FTP/kg, maximum power at various durations, heart rate response (training has made my HR a lot slower to rise over time during sessions), total training stress - TSS (using TrainingPeaks as I can include outdoor rides and rowing on there) and the associated metrics CTL (fitness) ATL (fatigue) and TSB (form).

TSB allows me to gauge how much to train in the days leading up to an event (balancing recovery and training when tapering) and also to track recovery. To give some context, an easy hour of endurance has a TSS of around 40 and the Brevet Cymru will have a TSS of 750-800. Whilst with a TSS of 40 you're easily recovered by the next day a TSS of 450+ takes several days of recovery. TSB is negative during training and at the end of the taper for an A event it should be positive but not too high as you don't want to lose too much fitness.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #123 on:** 29 April, 2016, 02:29:38 pm »

Simon have you thought about HRV as well?

simonp · « **Reply #124 on:** 29 April, 2016, 02:34:43 pm »

Quote from: chrisbainbridge on 29 April, 2016, 02:29:38 pm

Simon have you thought about HRV as well?

No, I've not looked into that.