Can you run Campag inner brake cable through Shimano outers?

[Oxford_Guy]

Re: Triples

If you have suitable frame bosses, please consider a DT lever (Lance stylee!); it's what I will do quite happily if for some reason I can no longer get micro-indexed Ergos, or another reliable solution.

(happy 10sp Ergo => 8sp Shimano rear customer here.  Since 2009. No mucking about required, it just works.)

AFAIK the modern Campag shifters, even the Chorus and above Ultrashift ones, don't have a micro-indexed  left lever both ways (up and down), unless I've misunderstood? This is only found on the pre-2007 models, which are pretty unobtainable new now.

[Brucey]

re making more recent campag shifters work with other (eg 'road' triple shimano) FDs; I think this is possible in many cases because there are more clicks in the shifter than are required to control a double FD with a short arm on it (which is how campag FDs still are).  However I can't be 100% sure because they keep changing things; the older LH shifters were also designed to control campag's triple FDs whereas the current models are (I think) not. In addition the current campag mechs mostly have lower spring tensions in them which means that the shifters can be made to withstand lower forces. (In point of fact they have overdone this; currently the cheaper campag shifters are (IMHO) so poorly engineered and wear so fast they are not worth having, even with matching mechs.)

If you do get a shifter which is almost there (enough pull and clicks, but the positions offered for the FD are not quite right) then you can usually vary the FD arm length (eg using a campag adapter meant for this purpose, or something similar that is made specially) and get it all to work that way.

But I don't know for sure that there is definitely a good triple FD solution using current campag shifters.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

re making more recent campag shifters work with other (eg 'road' triple shimano) FDs; I think this is possible in many cases because there are more clicks in the shifter than are required to control a double FD with a short arm on it (which is how campag FDs still are).  However I can't be 100% sure because they keep changing things; the older LH shifters were also designed to control campag's triple FDs whereas the current models are (I think) not. In addition the current campag mechs mostly have lower spring tensions in them which means that the shifters can be made to withstand lower forces. (In point of fact they have overdone this; currently the cheaper campag shifters are (IMHO) so poorly engineered and wear so fast they are not worth having, even with matching mechs.)

If you do get a shifter which is almost there (enough pull and clicks, but the positions offered for the FD are not quite right) then you can usually vary the FD arm length (eg using a campag adapter meant for this purpose, or something similar that is made specially) and get it all to work that way.

But I don't know for sure that there is definitely a good triple FD solution using current campag shifters.

Thanks for trying to help! For now I think I'm going to go ahead with bar end shifters, but if I end up hating them I might need to revisit this.

[Oxford_Guy]

I don’t recall the exact interior layout. I’d try plucking out the grey plastic piece we discussed above to create space.

Ha! Did that and it worked - I used some needle nose pliers to remove the grey plastic insert, which created enough space to remove the bolt, so I've now been able to put the washer back on. Thanks

According to this post (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/shimano-r600-brake-levers.156680/ ), the grey plastic insert ins not needed and can be left out, which reduces the rattling of the levers - is this true or is the plastic insert needed really, to protect the lever spring?

[Oxford_Guy]

I don’t recall the exact interior layout. I’d try plucking out the grey plastic piece we discussed above to create space.

Ha! Did that and it worked - I used some needle nose pliers to remove the grey plastic insert, which created enough space to remove the bolt, so I've now been able to put the washer back on. Thanks

According to this post (https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/shimano-r600-brake-levers.156680/ ), the grey plastic insert ins not needed and can be left out, which reduces the rattling of the levers - is this true or is the plastic insert needed really, to protect the lever spring?

I found a post here (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-tiagra-r400-brake-levers/rp-prod13672 ) that says: "The rattle can be fixed by removing the hard plastic piece on the front of the lever and placing a wedge of stiff foam into the space and then replacing the plastic piece. The wedge needs to extend down into the internal part of the brake so that it cannot move out of position. Does not seem to affect the operation at all. Can't say how long this will last, but only takes a few seconds to do." This seems to imply the insert is needed?

I've also read of others packing grease around the plastic insert to stop it rattling. Or can it just safely be left out?

[Samuel D]

No-one has definitively identified the purpose of this plastic piece to my satisfaction. As I say, I don’t recall the layout inside the brake lever, but I have meant to check whether the plastic piece is a stop to prevent the cable head unseating as the SLR spring returns the lever to its rest position while some problem (e.g. high cable friction) prevents the brake spring from keeping the cable head seated.

Otherwise I cannot think of an important function for it. It may just be a vanity cover to make the lever look more finished to the modern eye (when pulled to expose the innards), like the plastic covers in car engine bays.

I have done many miles without it and not encountered a problem.

I’d slather it with grease to hold it still if I felt nervous about removing it. But see if yours rattles, first. Only one of mine did. Just depends on the exact fit.

[Oxford_Guy]

No-one has definitively identified the purpose of this plastic piece to my satisfaction. As I say, I don’t recall the layout inside the brake lever, but I have meant to check whether the plastic piece is a stop to prevent the cable head unseating as the SLR spring returns the lever to its rest position while some problem (e.g. high cable friction) prevents the brake spring from keeping the cable head seated.

Otherwise I cannot think of an important function for it. It may just be a vanity cover to make the lever look more finished to the modern eye (when pulled to expose the innards), like the plastic covers in car engine bays.

I have done many miles without it and not encountered a problem.

I’d slather it with grease to hold it still if I felt nervous about removing it. But see if yours rattles, first. Only one of mine did. Just depends on the exact fit.

Thanks for the info. On one of them I had to pull out the plastic piece in order to be able to extract the bolt, so I could put the toothed washer back on, which had fallen out - if I put that one back, I guess that lever is the one more likely to have problems with rattling. Have left the plastic piece in the other lever alone for now. BTW this may seem like a daft question, but what sort of grease to use to pack around the insert - the same stuff used to pack into bearings etc.? I guess it needs to be something fairly viscous.

[Brucey]

I'd  be tempted to use something like blu-tac to stop any rattles there might be. However it will likely soften if you use oil in that area.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Easy solutions:

1) Ditch the bar end shifter idea, return them to the manufacturer, just get some new Ergos but use the right Shimergo setup this time, rather than the wrong one you were using before.
2) If you're replacing them, FFS, just get some new outer cable! 
3) Gutted Campag shiffters plus bar ends just looks wrong.  Don't do it.  Please.

Oops! I've just "accidentally" <cough> ordered a set of 11 speed Campagnolo Chorus Ultra Shift Ergo Shifters from Cycle Republic, as they seemed a bargain (relatively speaking) at less than £150: https://www.cyclerepublic.com/campagnolo-chorus-ultra-shift-ergo-shifters-11-speed.html

Now it's a bit of a risk, am not 100% sure they will work with my 9-speed Shimano XT rear mech, as Campag have apparently changed their shift ratios a number of times, but Campag 11 to Shimano 9 in at least some configurations is known to work (and closer than non-hubbub Campag 10 to Shimano 9, though not bang on like Campag 10 to Shimano .



The front XT triple derailleur could be more of a problem - it might work with these shifters, perhaps with a JTEK Shiftmate 7 (http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate/shiftmate-7/ ), but I'm not counting on it, as the 11 speed Campag shifters are really designed for doubles... Worse case scenario I'll fit a downtube shifter (probably Shimano 7700) for the front mech (or possibly even a 24/46 double chainset, though would prefer not)...

If all this works <fingers crossed>, will mean sending back the bar end shifters and r400 brakes I bought recently, though.