Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: LeFlic on 19 October, 2018, 11:32:40 am
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I am struggling with health and fitness issues (and have been for some time).
I know that I can get round a 200 within the maximum time limit but I am conscious that I may be the last one to finish.
I don't want to annoy organisers by making them wait for me to finish. If I realised I was going to be out of time I would ring them so that they didn't have to wait but if I am struggling around with some time in hand what do I do?
Do organisers get annoyed by people like me? I wouldn't expect anything at the finish if I was last so they would be able to pack away all their kit. I am happy to just get in my car and head home once my return has been recorded.
My concern about this is stopping me from entering events and so some reassurance from an organiser may encourage me to do a bit more ( I realise that each organiser is different but if just one reassures me it may be all I need)
Thanks
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As an organiser, I expect to be at the finish at least until the official closing time. Both times I have run my 200, the last finishers have been within 15 minutes of the cutoff. That's fine. That's what the time limit is for.
If a rider sent me a message to let me know they were going to finish OTL, I would wait for them - within reason - and make sure food and drink was available to them at the finish. You will still need to eat even if you don't get the ride validated. It would be churlish to deny a rider food for finishing late, unless there were a practical reason why you couldn't.
The only thing that annoys me is riders who abandon but don't have the courtesy to let me know.
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^ As a full-value rider, this is how I've always approached it. Organisers have set the time limits, therefore they've presumably planned to be around until a little while after them. (If they really can't wait around, eg. because the control venue closes, they'll include instructions for alternative POP.) But if you're going to DNF, or be more than about 10 minutes OOT, let them know so they don't needlessly wait around or go looking for you.
As a general rule, organisers are extremely sympathetic to riders who are riding near the limit of their ability (that is, surely, as audacious as it gets). If you're full-value because you're slow - or riding in a group with someone who is - they're unlikely to be annoyed at having to wait for you. More likely they'll be pleased you got round.
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If you ever find an organiser is annoyed at having to wait until the agreed closing time for a control please let us know. We'll, er.... "have a word" with them. ;D
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You have nothing to worry about. The fact that you consider contacting the organiser when out-of-time is the decent thing. I always recognise that out-of-time riders still require congratulations on completing even if it is without validation. In many ways I have a greater respect for individuals that are desperate to arrive back in the knick-of-time compared to those that race to the finish.
There are exceptions... half an hour after closure some I was locking up the hall and the venue had been emptied and cleaned. Some out of time riders arrived. I was polite and congratulated them about completing their ride. They promptly launched a volley of complaints on why I had closed down the hall, not kept any food aside and expected that their cards should be validated. Given that there had been no forewarning on their late arrival and it was now 11pm, some sixteen hours after I had opened up the venue and had catered for 180 people, their complaints were not received sympathetically. Two of the group were AUK members and should have known better.
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As a general rule, organisers are extremely sympathetic to riders who are riding near the limit of their ability (that is, surely, as audacious as it gets). If you're full-value because you're slow - or riding in a group with someone who is - they're unlikely to be annoyed at having to wait for you.
This with knobs on. For anybody running slow, the thing to do is simply send the Org a text, at, say, the last control. WIth that timed message they'll be able to make their own assessment of when to expect you. Just dont forget to tell them who you are....
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I’ve been last back many times and have never got the feeling I was annoying the organiser. You may find the food service has been packed away though.
On a lot of events there’ll be a decently sized contingent finishing near the time limit, especially the more popular ones with a more varied field.
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I usually get in about half an hour before the arrivee closes and I'm usually among the last half dozen. Or three or two or one. It's certainly never seemed to be a problem. Sometimes there's not much food left, sometimes there's loads, sometimes the finish is a pub or cafe so it doesn't matter. I've also been at the arrivee with organisers I personally know while they've been waiting for the last few riders, again there seems to be nothing other than genuine congratulations. I think the arrivee can usually roughly predict slower riders' progress from their times at previous controls. There were complaints in another thread about riders arriving last minute, not sure if they were from an organiser or control helper, but I think they were more about faster riders stopping before the arrivee and having a meal/drink/whatever.
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There were complaints in another thread about riders arriving last minute, not sure if they were from an organiser or control helper, but I think they were more about faster riders stopping before the arrivee and having a meal/drink/whatever.
Seems to me that if you're going to treat an audax as a structured pub crawl, politeness would mean you do it on something with civilised time limits like a 100. Unless you know the organiser is going to be there all night for riders on a longer event, when it doesn't matter.
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Not sure what sort of event it related to, but I think – might well be wrong – it was about fast riders then spending a disproportionately long time on the final leg, possibly being lanternes rouges despite their speed, but still within time limits. On the other hand, there are frequent events where I'm plodding round and get overtaken repeatedly by faster riders who spend longer at controls and still finish earlier.
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As a very slow rider, I never had a problem.
It was evident I was doing my best and not messing.
It is only fair to keep the organisers informed if you are lagging significantly behind time.
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I've been last back on every ride I've done bar 1. On one of these rides at one of the intermediate controls I said to the organiser "I'll try not to make you wait too long". He replied "Don't worry about it, take what time you need, just be safe". It made me realise that organisers have committed to sticking around for the full time limit, and I shouldn't worry, or over do it to get back earlier if I can't. Sure it's great if we're all round a 200 in under 10 hours and the org can get to the pub, but the reality is we all trickle in over about 6 hours and they are fine with that.
Perhaps my view would be different if I was doing events that are more than what AUK considers X rated.
On a recent 300, I took over 19 hours total time (grrrr head winds). The main finish was a bar that closed at 0000, and so the finish moved to the organisers house. I had expected that arriving I'd find a sleepy org wanting to goto bed, that I'd just hand them my card and be on my way. Instead they invited me in, warmed me up with hot soup and drink (it had got cold and wet in the last 2 hours). We chatted, and the org was really friendly and put me at ease about taking so long.
What I have started doing tho, is I carry an iridium tracker (think spot, but made by Garmin). It relays my position every 10 minutes by satellite to a web page, I try to remember to give organisers login info for this tracker, that way they can see, yes this rider is alive, yes they are nearly here, I'll put the kettle on.
Good luck, and ride safe!
J
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It is only fair to keep the organisers informed if you are lagging significantly behind time.
Or if you've given up and gone home.
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Would it be considered normal / polite / an annoyance to contact an organiser if you’re being slow but still within time? I’ve never felt the urge.
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It is only fair to keep the organisers informed if you are lagging significantly behind time.
Or if you've given up and gone home.
Could it be said, the biggest sin in Audaxing is scratching without informing the organiser?
J
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As a rider rather than organiser, it's also a concern of mine. The organisers responses are what I've experienced and would expect, however it's natural to not want to keep people waiting whatever you're doing and however often you're told they don't mind. Along with grams point that the more popular ones are more likely to have a varied field and finishing times. It's also my experience that those run by/for CTC groups are more likely to be ridden by their members, who are more likely to be at the tourist end. Then there's X rated events, no pressure when the only thing waiting for you at the end is a postbox! I am quite selective about which events I enter, I can sometimes get an idea of the ride by looking at the results from previous years. One run by a CTC group, where 50%+ of last years riders where CTC members will more likely be to my taste than one run by a CC where a lot of the riders previously have been members of that club.
Maybe we need a lanterne rouge club, some of those I used to ride with are no longer cycling and others are sadly no longer with us. The recent influx of riders I see are more likely to be at the other end of the speed spectrum.
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I was a joint controller (at an intermediate control not HQ) earlier this year. The organiser (Manotea OTP) set up a WhatsApp group to enable communication between the controls. The previous control told us which riders had just made the cutoff at their control (and also those who were out of time / scratched) - so we were expecting to see the same ones towards the end of our opening hours. Likewise we passed on similar info to the subsequent control.
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I think in the whole time I organised I only went home early once or twice. There was always at least one rider close to the cut. We may have packed up a little prior to their arrival but there was always still food and warm drinks. Main sins have been packing without calling, although you could work it out by speaking to the earlier controls and checking off the numbers on the start list. Also riders blasting round the shorter events and not stopping at intermediate controls, meaning the controller had to hang around to the close despite the probability that no-one else would come through.
The biggest piss-take we encountered as a team was a group that chose to go to the pub rather than check in at the finish, only exiting the pub with a few minutes to go before the cut to get their card stamped. The helpers could all have gone home an hour earlier.
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It's nice if everyone comes home ahead of time all safe and sound and full of fun
On the events I've run (300 and 400) that has *never* happened. If you are so behind that you aren't going to make the time limit, please send me a txt or call
I don't think people do it on purpose. They just misjudge how speedy they will be. Most people will only ride one 400. Some misread the profile chart. Some had a cold last week etc etc
TBH I'm sure everyone has had a bad time on a long event and has come in either last or many hours later than expected
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Same here. No specific need to "just in time" riders to do anything special by way of notification.
I would rather have 100 tail end charlies riding within time but near the time limit than (a) folk who DNF without saying (which in fairness Ive never had on any of my events) or (b) people who DNS but don't bother to tell me in advance (of which I get many).
Tables n chairs might have been packed away and the hall tidied up, but often its the riders who finish just in time who have had the most epic ride. Applause has been known!
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I think they were more about faster riders stopping before the arrivee and having a meal/drink/whatever.
This is the stuff I'm less sure about. Should I be intending to finish as quickly as possible? I'll often stop to take photos, or may linger longer than needed in a cafe, or even detour for a BCQ point or just take it easy to savour the scenery... In twenty years of Audax I've always thought this acceptable and certainly within the regulations. It used to be that I'd still be finishing at the same time as others, that's become rarer, so I feel I ought to hurry along, which in turn makes it less likely I'll choose to do that ride again.
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Tables n chairs might have been packed away and the hall tidied up, but often its the riders who finish just in time who have had the most epic ride. Applause has been known!
On my first 200, when I finally got to the Arrivé, at 12:54, I walked in very cold (it was subzero outside), wet, and in a lot of pain. As I opened the door a group of riders who had arrived about 30 mins before me all cheered and applauded.
Had a similar experience in Denmark in September when I got to the finish at 1312, after 150km slogging into 30+kph headwinds.
J
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I think they were more about faster riders stopping before the arrivee and having a meal/drink/whatever.
This is the stuff I'm less sure about. Should I be intending to finish as quickly as possible? I'll often stop to take photos, or may linger longer than needed in a cafe, or even detour for a BCQ point or just take it easy to savour the scenery... In twenty years of Audax I've always thought this acceptable and certainly within the regulations. It used to be that I'd still be finishing at the same time as others, that's become rarer, so I feel I ought to hurry along, which in turn makes it less likely I'll choose to do that ride again.
It's one thing to be stopping during the ride as you describe, it's something else to stop at the pub round the corner from the finish, when you could goto the finish, get your card stamped, then goto the pub.
J
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For the Cambridge events that I run (https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/calendar-events), we plan on the last rider getting the same service as the first, as best we can. In March, two riders struggled back on The Cambridge Pork Pie into brutal headwinds and -7°C windchill (https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/the-cambridge-pork-pie-2018/report) to arrive well out of time, and I was delighted we could warm them up with Mrs WB's hot soup and delicious cake while they told their tale.
As an organiser, there are two things that always strike me as important on this topic:
1. I have a duty of care to ensure all riders are okay, within reason — if you abandon without telling me then you're on your own, but otherwise it's part of the role;
2. The last rider back deserves just as much TLC at arrivée as the first back — probably more-so — and so we strive to give it.
For those last two riders back, they were very cold, but happy to have finished. We had all-but cleared the hall, just one table out for them. The kitchen was cleared apart from the soup on the hob, which took a few minutes to heat up. I marked their brevets "hors délais" and handed them back (unvalidated) as mementoes.
For us it's just part of the role — for those two it hopefully wrapped up a wholly eventful day and was a satisfying epilogue to their story, and it certainly was to ours :thumbsup:
EDIT updated to add — for the record, I knew they were going to be late, as we'd been in touch already.
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I think they were more about faster riders stopping before the arrivee and having a meal/drink/whatever.
This is the stuff I'm less sure about. Should I be intending to finish as quickly as possible? I'll often stop to take photos, or may linger longer than needed in a cafe, or even detour for a BCQ point or just take it easy to savour the scenery... In twenty years of Audax I've always thought this acceptable and certainly within the regulations. It used to be that I'd still be finishing at the same time as others, that's become rarer, so I feel I ought to hurry along, which in turn makes it less likely I'll choose to do that ride again.
I think the issue I remembered was what rob posted:
I think in the whole time I organised I only went home early once or twice. There was always at least one rider close to the cut. We may have packed up a little prior to their arrival but there was always still food and warm drinks. Main sins have been packing without calling, although you could work it out by speaking to the earlier controls and checking off the numbers on the start list. Also riders blasting round the shorter events and not stopping at intermediate controls, meaning the controller had to hang around to the close despite the probability that no-one else would come through.
The biggest piss-take we encountered as a team was a group that chose to go to the pub rather than check in at the finish, only exiting the pub with a few minutes to go before the cut to get their card stamped. The helpers could all have gone home an hour earlier.
So it sounds like they stopped at a pub just close to the arrivee, spent quite some time there and then arrived as lanterne rouge. In which case it would certainly have been considerate to finish first then go the pub. To me that feels like quite a different way of finishing on the time limit than riding slowly because you're enjoying the scenery or just are slow, even if it results in the same wait for the controllers.
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2. The last rider back deserves just as much TLC at arrivée as the first back — probably more-so — and so we strive to give it.
This. Absolutely.
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Thanks for a lot more responses than I expected.
It is reassuring to read what has been said and makes me think I will make the effort in the New Year. Until then I have entered a few 100km events which should give me an idea about how I am going.
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You have nothing to worry about. The fact that you consider contacting the organiser when out-of-time is the decent thing. I always recognise that out-of-time riders still require congratulations on completing even if it is without validation. In many ways I have a greater respect for individuals that are desperate to arrive back in the knick-of-time compared to those that race to the finish.
half an hour after closure some I was locking up the hall and the venue had been emptied and cleaned. Some out of time riders arrived. I was polite and congratulated them about completing their ride. They promptly launched a volley of complaints on why I had closed down the hall, not kept any food aside and expected that their cards should be validated. Given that there had been no forewarning on their late arrival and it was now 11pm, some sixteen hours after I had opened up the venue and had catered for 180 people, their complaints were not received sympathetically. Two of the group were AUK members and should have known better.
Quite right that you shut up shop as you had not been warned those riders were going to be late. If I was over the time limit I would certainly not expect to have my card validated and would have the courtesy to text the organiser of my late arrival. Over the time limit means just that otherwise where do you draw the line?
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Would it be considered normal / polite / an annoyance to contact an organiser if you’re being slow but still within time? I’ve never felt the urge.
Can you define 'slow'? I've not long been a Randonneur and at the moment I consider myself to be a full value rider - and as long as you still think you will come in under the time limit I don't think it should be an annoyance at all for the organiser to wait for you (surely that's what the time limit is there for?). In my opinion, full value riders should be given just as much - if not more respect for being out on the road that long anyway.
Example - I was always taught when I was younger to let my mum know if I was going to be late home for my dinner but I would certainly not be required to let her know if I was going to be home just in time for it....
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Ruddy Randonneur treat the place like a hotel, wander in any time and expect a meal to be put in front of them within 30 seconds, and don't even help with the washing up, etc.....
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I'm a bit surprised by the number of experienced and highly-respected organisers on here who are critical of riders who fail to notify if they DNF. Most of my audaxing was done in the good old days before riders carried mobile phones, and in fact even more recently when acting as a finish controller we have never published an 'event phone number' and don't expect to hear from DNFs. Its good when we do of course, but we know we can't rely on it. And you'd perhaps be amazed how many organisers or finish controllers don't really know how many riders thay have 'out there', so on that basis we have to stay to the end but (in our case) not a minute longer.
I'm also surprised that many organisers don't seem to use modern comms to track the fastest riders - on a long event they could delay the opening by hours if they know what sort of schedule their fastest riders are on. More useful than knowing about the slowest, I would say.
1. I have a duty of care to ensure all riders are okay, within reason — if you abandon without telling me then you're on your own, but otherwise it's part of the role;
I would say the same (my bold). Sometimes what we do when we close up if we think riders are still 'out there' is to drive back along the last 5 miles of the route, before heading home. Just to see if there's anything to be done.
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I had finishers right on the time limit on my recently organised events. Did not crossed my mind that I should be annoyed. My finish was at a pub and I had cycled there. So I was perfectly content where I was. The pub stopped serving food 20 mins before the deadline for the 200. I had advised riders to ring me if they were running near the limits and wanted me to place an order for them before food orders stopped.
As for faster riders that did not really bother me as the gap between slowest 100 riders and fastest 200 riders was perfect to have something to eat at the pub.
For the 100 I had stated what the earliest time we would man the arrivee from. If anyone thought they would get there before then then they were to ring.
It all worked rather well. So plan your next 200 and don't worry if you are full value.
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Waiting for the last rider at Staplefield, East Sussex Hilly... could be worse, last year it rained cats and dogs!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/5hjj9apj7155rug/IMAG0209.jpg?raw=1)
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Waiting for the last rider at Staplefield, East Sussex Hilly... could be worse, last year it rained cats and dogs!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/5hjj9apj7155rug/IMAG0209.jpg?raw=1)
There's a welcoming face
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Alas when it comes to selfies, I'm rather in the Tony Soprano mold 8)
Still, most riders found a hotdog and a coffee was an offer they couldn't refuse...
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ACME Lantern Rouge of the Year trophy awaits the most full value/heroic rider ... The 2016-17 winner has already finished right on the limit this year [Richard Ellis Memorial 200km] in an attempt to win it back.
As already said, it's the DNFs who are totally AWOL that we worry about. Somewhere prominent on the info and route sheets is: Please let the organiser know on the above phone number if you are unable to finish.
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There - you see - if you didn't put that on the route sheet you wouldn't have to worry, would you?
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There - you see - if you didn't put that on the route sheet you wouldn't have to worry, would you?
I remember worrying a great deal during various editions of LEL.
I don't know what was on the brevet cards or route sheets in this regard but 'missing' riders certainly caused concern!