Author Topic: Etrex 10 issue. Limit? Glitch? (Read 3872 times)

Whitedown Man · « **on:** 10 October, 2016, 11:34:58 am »

I rode a 600km (actually 626km) DIY this weekend, starting 4am Sat & finishing 9pm Sun. The trip computer screen correctly shows distance ridden, moving time and stopped time.

However, I've uploaded the ride using Garmin Connect, MapMyRide, RideWithGPS and Strava and in every case they show the start time as 6am Sat and distance ridden 580km - i.e. they're missing the 45km I rode in the first two hours.

Have I come across some sort of limit in the way Etrex 10s work? A random glitch? Any & all suggestions gratefully received as I assume I'm going to fail validation on this one.

mattc · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 October, 2016, 11:46:48 am »

I've got an eTrex 20, which is supposed to work in very much the same way, but of course minor bugs/"issues" could be different across the eTrex range.

Nevertheless, I've logged upto about 1040km OK. I often find the track is split across more than 1 file, so:

Are you 100% certain you've picked up all the files? There are various folders [Archive/Current/etc ... ], and my habit has been to open them ALL up in Windows Explorer, and check for ANY file that has trackpoints with a date that is in the range of my ride!

Whitedown Man · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 October, 2016, 12:08:13 pm »

I've looked again. Unfortunately it's definitely the only GPX file there.

drgannet · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 October, 2016, 12:29:49 pm »

A possible cause is the device over writing the track once your track exceeds 10,000 points, if you are logging points at high frequency. On the old Etrex, log files were automatically written to the SD card at the end of each day, which meant that if this happened over 2 days the track from the first day could be retrieved. Not sure about the new ones though.

Whitedown Man · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 October, 2016, 12:54:22 pm »

Thx. If that's the case, is there a settings change I could make which would fix it in future?

Si S · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 October, 2016, 01:12:03 pm »

Somewhere in there is a setting to make it archive the track when full, additionally you can turn the sampling rate down to 'less often'.

Alternatively you could remember to save the track every 300 to 400 km, clear the tracklog, and then join them back up later.

Kim · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 October, 2016, 01:36:07 pm »

Quote from: Si S on 10 October, 2016, 01:12:03 pm

Somewhere in there is a setting to make it archive the track when full

This'll be the problem. It's a piss-poor piece of design. What people actually need is a setting for the archive interval (which may be 'off'), and for a new track (in the archive, or wherever) to *always* be started automagically if the track becomes full.

JonB · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 October, 2016, 01:36:28 pm »

For 400km rides and above my Etrex 30 has always split the tracks, I've had 3 for a 600 before now. The best method that I have found for finding the files is to open Basecamp, highlight the GPX files one by one and it should show you the relevant track, the ridden GPX seem to come up in a heavy blue line. The key place to look for the first file is the archive folder, it was mentioned above but I wasn't sure from your reply whether you'd been in there, it will have a slightly different name structure to a saved track but it will be a GPX file. When you've identified the tracks you can go to Windows explorer, copy and stitch them together (I use text editor). If it's not in the archive, I'm not sure what to suggest, other than Si S's suggestion to save as you go along for future rides.

This might get a better response in the GPS thread ... worth moving?

JonB · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 October, 2016, 01:43:23 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 10 October, 2016, 01:36:07 pm

This'll be the problem. It's a piss-poor piece of design. What people actually need is a setting for the archive interval (which may be 'off'), and for a new track (in the archive, or wherever) to *always* be started automagically if the track becomes full.

Fully agree re piss-poor design.

Whitedown Man · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 October, 2016, 02:58:04 pm »

Thx for all the replies. I've changed "Recording Interval" to "Least Often" but I can't find a setting for archive interval, nor an option to save a track.

I haven't looked at prices, but in terms of recording longer rides might it be worth upgrading to a later Etrex model?

mattc · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 October, 2016, 03:31:39 pm »

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=96821.msg2074259#msg2074259
... is about this exact issue on an eTrex 20.

(mainly)

JonB · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 October, 2016, 03:33:41 pm »

Quote from: Whitedown Man on 10 October, 2016, 02:58:04 pm

Thx for all the replies. I've changed "Recording Interval" to "Least Often" but I can't find a setting for archive interval, nor an option to save a track.

Not sure if there is an archive interval, to save a track on the E20/30 it's a case of going to, 'main menu' ==> 'track manager' ==> 'save current track' and the rest is fairly obvious

Quote from: Whitedown Man on 10 October, 2016, 02:58:04 pm

I haven't looked at prices, but in terms of recording longer rides might it be worth upgrading to a later Etrex model?

I never really looked at the Etrex 10 but I always thought that the main difference was that the 20/30 supported maps but not the 10 but not sure about supporting ride length. Might be worth experimenting with what you've got if you don't mind the lack of mapping.

Whitedown Man · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 October, 2016, 03:53:43 pm »

Are there alternatives to Etrex (or Garmins more generally) for recording a 600km DIY by GPS?

And have I done the right thing by changing "recording interval" to "least often"?

JonB · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 October, 2016, 10:55:05 pm »

Quote from: Whitedown Man on 10 October, 2016, 03:53:43 pm

Are there alternatives to Etrex (or Garmins more generally) for recording a 600km DIY by GPS?

And have I done the right thing by changing "recording interval" to "least often"?

Etrex is fine for recording a 600, I and many others have recorded long rides with this unit but I suspect that whatever you do with the settings that you'll probably have a split file to join. It's a straightforward process. A Garmin Edge of some kind will do the job but you will also need to save the ride into approximately 200k chunks and then join otherwise they crash and you've got the added complication of needing to charge these rather than carry separate AAs. Mio and Lezeyne also do GPS but can't comment on these, I think they have built in batteries so you'd have the charging issue. The other option is a phone and I know people who swear by them but they're not for me, the charging issue becomes much more pressing.

Just checked and my unit is set to record tracks at 'normal' and to archive 'daily'. This works for me.

mattc · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 October, 2016, 11:03:14 pm »

Quote from: JonB on 10 October, 2016, 10:55:05 pm

Just checked and my unit is set to record tracks at 'normal' and to archive 'daily'. This works for me.

Just checked: My "20" is set to:
"normal" &
"when full"

As posted earlier, this has been fine upto well over 1000km. i don't THINK I've had to stitch any files together yet. but I would regard that as a "level 1" I.T. task ifI had to. IIRC you could send multiple files to the Perm validation people and they would deal with them happily.

/GPSnewbie K.I.S.S!

Whitedown Man · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 October, 2016, 06:31:08 am »

Suspect I may need to upgrade to a 20, as my 10 doesn't have any "archive" options.

Greenbank · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 October, 2016, 08:07:26 am »

Quote from: Whitedown Man on 11 October, 2016, 06:31:08 am

Suspect I may need to upgrade to a 20, as my 10 doesn't have any "archive" options.

Are you on the latest firmware?

JonB · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 October, 2016, 08:37:48 am »

Quote from: mattc on 10 October, 2016, 11:03:14 pm

Quote from: JonB on 10 October, 2016, 10:55:05 pm
Just checked and my unit is set to record tracks at 'normal' and to archive 'daily'. This works for me.
Just checked: My "20" is set to:
"normal" &
"when full"

As posted earlier, this has been fine upto well over 1000km. i don't THINK I've had to stitch any files together yet.

Ahh, maybe I'll try the 'when full' option to avoid the stitching ... thanks

frankly frankie · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 October, 2016, 09:40:15 am »

Quote

Quote from: JonB on 10 October, 2016, 10:55:05 pm
And have I done the right thing by changing "recording interval" to "least often"?
Just checked and my unit is set to record tracks at 'normal' and to archive 'daily'. This works for me.

Archive daily should do the trick on the assumption that your 600 doesn't start shortly after midnight (ie its a 'normal' 6am start) and your ride does actually extend over 2 calendar days (ie you are not ultra-speedy). The limit is 10,000 points in a single file and on my old Etrex set to 'auto' and 'normal' and used for cycling (20-25kph-ish), this was good for about 550km. I haven't checked this on a new model but I'd assume its similar.
The numbers may vary depending on your speeds and especially what you do with the GPS at controls.
Obviously also you have to clear the current tracklog just before you set off, to get the maximum capacity in one file. And this is only really an issue for 600s and above - the normal settings should be fine for a 400.

I think 'least often' might be a bit extreme - I suggest you take it out for a short ride round a wiggly block using this setting, then inspect the resultant track to see how well it follows the corners, and how many points it has used for what distance.

To judge by a lot of the file sizes that get uploaded to aukweb by DIY-ers, many people have gone the other way - recording once per second which creates huuuuge files - in a kind of 'more is better' frenzy. For day rides (not 400s/600s) and for mapping new roads I think 'auto' and 'more often' is a good compromise setting - this is good for about 350km and follows what you actually did pretty closely.

Whitedown Man · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 October, 2016, 11:17:55 am »

The device is 15 mths old but I don't know about its firmware.

I'm definitely not a speedy rider - this weekend's 600 was 20hrs riding on Sat & 17hrs on Sun.

I shall set it for "less often" rather than "least" and see how I get on. I've never had a problem recording 400s so it's the extra 200km that's taking it over the edge - maybe "less often" will bring it back under.

However, as per earliest posts, there is no "archive" option on my Etrex 10, and from looking at the various Garmin brochures online this morning I think the archive feature only comes with the 20 and 30 models.

mattc · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 October, 2016, 12:18:47 pm »

If your investigations are correct, I'd say that rules out the Etrex 10 as a general purpose audaxing unit.

I seem to have dodged a bullet buying a 20 instead (back in August, not long before the BofB 1k!). There was some discussion here about the benefits of spending the extra, and TBH no one was terribly convincing; there just seemed to be a general feeling that the Etrex20 was well worth the extra cash ( and IMO it IS a lot more cash).

Greenbank · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 October, 2016, 01:02:17 pm »

The firmware upgrade histories for the Etrex 10 and Etrex 20/30 look completely different so it may be something that is not available on the Etrex 10.

fuaran · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 October, 2016, 04:06:32 pm »

The manual for the Etrex 10/20/30 mentions the auto archive feature (page 33). http://static.garmin.com/pumac/eTrex_10-20-30_OM_EN.pdf
It doesn't say its only on the 20/30, so it implies the Etrex 10 can do this.
And the specifications for track log is "10,000 points, 100 saved tracks", so it should have plenty of memory.

Worth checking if you have the latest firmware anyway, it may have improved things.

Whitedown Man · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 October, 2016, 05:57:26 pm »

Thx for the link to the manual, though ultimately it just confirms that that option doesn't exist on my eTrex 10 because it tells me exactly which menu it should be on - instead, on that menu the only three options on my device are Track Log, Record Method and Recording Interval.

I think those that describe the eTrex as "piss poor" design are mostly right, though to be scrupulously fair to Garmin they do sell the eTrex as a device for walkers, not many of whom are going to be recording 600km treks.

Will look into firmware, but suspect that will take me to the wrong side of my "tech competence" frontier.

Kim · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 October, 2016, 06:05:07 pm »

Quote from: Whitedown Man on 11 October, 2016, 05:57:26 pm

I think those that describe the eTrex as "piss poor" design are mostly right, though to be scrupulously fair to Garmin they do sell the eTrex as a device for walkers, not many of whom are going to be recording 600km treks.

Yeah, but it's not really about distance. It's about time-vs-logging-interval and track complexity. I'm sure that it's possible to fill the track memory on foot in a fraction of the distance, as walkers change direction more than cyclists.

I still think the eTrex is one of the best tool for the job. The hardware is excellent, and while the software has its annoying quirks (and a user interface that evolved from a map and compass), it doesn't tie you into assumptions about your cycling the way the cycling-specific models do.