Author Topic: Interesting or unusual planes?  (Read 385847 times)

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1650 on: 28 April, 2020, 05:53:49 pm »
Voyager is twin engined. In 2 years time Fairford will be home to 4 engined  RC-135 aircraft from Mildenhall.

Jaded

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1651 on: 28 April, 2020, 07:19:32 pm »
Yes, I've been in a Voyager on a refuelling flight. Much fun!
It is simpler than it looks.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1652 on: 29 April, 2020, 07:35:26 pm »
About an hour ago, some sort of military helicopter flying over some of the posh bits of Bristol. Don't know whether RAF, army or navy but grey and quite a different shape from the police and ambulance helicopters, as well as neither landing on the hospital nor hovering over Easton.
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ElyDave

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1653 on: 30 April, 2020, 07:50:52 am »
The 135 is a development of the Boeing 367-80 (which Tex Johnstone famously rolled with the press on board), which also gave rise to the larger Boeing 707 - itself the basis of the E-3 AWACS. Physically, it's a bit bigger than a Boeing 737-800 but quite a bit heavier at 135 tonnes. The Voyager is around 60ft wider and longer and 100 tonnes heavier.

I always thought the C135 series were developed from the airliner itself, thanks.


Apparently it was a USAF KC135 tanker

The USAnian tankers notable for the little winglets on their boom of course, if they are close enough. RAF tankers by the pods under the wings, or in the case of the TriStar, stripes on its bum for the pilots to line up on.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

TimC

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1654 on: 01 May, 2020, 09:03:10 am »
The 135 is a development of the Boeing 367-80 (which Tex Johnstone famously rolled with the press on board), which also gave rise to the larger Boeing 707 - itself the basis of the E-3 AWACS. Physically, it's a bit bigger than a Boeing 737-800 but quite a bit heavier at 135 tonnes. The Voyager is around 60ft wider and longer and 100 tonnes heavier.

I always thought the C135 series were developed from the airliner itself, thanks.


Apparently it was a USAF KC135 tanker

The USAnian tankers notable for the little winglets on their boom of course, if they are close enough. RAF tankers by the pods under the wings, or in the case of the TriStar, stripes on its bum for the pilots to line up on.

The TriStar is long gone, thank goodness. Worst aeroplane I ever refuelled from. The efflux from the centre engine, even though it was kept at idle when refuelling Hercs, really gave our fin a hard time. It was ok to travel on as a passenger, however, and had a lovely flight deck. A very clever DLC system as well, which was a precursor to full fly-by-wire.

All tankers have guidelines on them, though they are different for the various hose locations and refuelling methods. It’s only the US Air Force that uses the boom system, the US Navy and Marines use hose-and-drogue as we do, which is why they don’t have any KC135s.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1655 on: 01 May, 2020, 09:23:29 am »
Did i not once read a rather good essay about the chap who invented air to air refuelling? He had to fund the development himself and set up a company. then demonstrate the usefulness to the MoD.

I shall not Google - leaving room for interesting comments here.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1656 on: 01 May, 2020, 10:12:27 am »
Did i not once read a rather good essay about the chap who invented air to air refuelling? He had to fund the development himself and set up a company. then demonstrate the usefulness to the MoD.

See also the jet engine and the MOD War Office ignoring Frank Whittle for over ten years until he setup Power Jets Ltd and built a working engine.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1657 on: 01 May, 2020, 10:39:41 am »
Did i not once read a rather good essay about the chap who invented air to air refuelling? He had to fund the development himself and set up a company. then demonstrate the usefulness to the MoD.

I shall not Google - leaving room for interesting comments here.

Former race pilot Alan Cobham, as I recall.
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Steph

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1658 on: 09 May, 2020, 12:41:07 pm »
It was indeed. See also HMG handing it all over to FORNERS.
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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1659 on: 09 May, 2020, 05:03:04 pm »
It was indeed. See also HMG handing it all over to FORNERS.

Same with the jet engine gave it to USA and the USSR.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

TheLurker

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1660 on: 09 May, 2020, 10:04:22 pm »
Quote from: pcolbeck
Quote from: Steph
It was indeed. See also HMG handing it all over to FORNERS.
Sam with the jet engine gave it to USA and the USSR.
We certainly gave* the CCCP the Nene.  AIUI the septics were jolly pissed off about being up against MIGs powered by Nene clones.  I always assumed that the Yanks went with Whittle's published patents and whatever they hem hem acquired of the German jet programme in the post war divvying up of German weapon tech.


*I think commercially the deal was reckoned a bit of a success, politically and militarily perhaps not the brightest thing we could have done.
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Pingu

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1661 on: 16 May, 2020, 12:20:58 pm »
This just flew over Furryboottoon:


IMG_3337_01 by The Pingus, on Flickr

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9537858

Looks like it's had a busy day. It went to Humberside before here and it looks like it's going to Glasgow. https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT485/24824b2a

PaulF

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1662 on: 16 May, 2020, 12:42:39 pm »
I expect I’ll see it just before it lands then :)

Pingu

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1663 on: 16 May, 2020, 04:13:30 pm »
I followed it at FlightRadar24 and it's been all over the place today: Brize Norton - Humberside - Aberdeen - Glasgow - Guernsey - Bristol - Brize Norton. It seems that it did a couple of landings at each airport, taking off again immediately without stopping  ???

TimC

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1664 on: 16 May, 2020, 06:51:22 pm »
There are a lot of pilots being called back to the (very undermanned) RAF from the airlines just now, and most of them will be taking up reservist posts - ie 'weekend warrior' type stuff. This sort of flight is a great way of getting training for quite a few people in one flight.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1665 on: 17 May, 2020, 08:59:27 pm »
There are a lot of pilots being called back to the (very undermanned) RAF from the airlines just now, and most of them will be taking up reservist posts - ie 'weekend warrior' type stuff. This sort of flight is a great way of getting training for quite a few people in one flight.

Interesting. Why does the RAF need to increase its pilot count at the moment? Is it too many pilots down with CV-19 or something else?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

TimC

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1666 on: 18 May, 2020, 12:30:45 am »
No, it's simply failed to attract enough suitable candidates over the past few years, and the delays that it's built into its flying training system through its public-private partnership with Ascent, which is using the bare minimum of equipment (for instance 12 T-6 Texan II aircraft replaced around 150 Tucanos) has prompted many student pilots to give up and leave. The only fleet in the RAF that's fully-manned with pilots is the (also public-private) A330 Voyager, and the reason for that is all the guys engineering their way on to it so that they can get their civilian licences! The Services collectively approached the airlines a couple of weeks ago to offer re-entry up to age 57, and they are even proposing to take people who've never been in the military (with a quick basic military training course). It's opportunistic, and it won't fix their long-term problems, but it's happening.

ElyDave

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1667 on: 18 May, 2020, 07:11:23 am »
Maybe I should have joined up after all!  With dad's final posting at Brize Norton, i know plenty of pilots who did just what you say, VC10 and TriStar who did their time and left. One of my neighbours went to Cathay Pacific for example, no idea what he's doing now.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

TimC

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1668 on: 18 May, 2020, 02:35:37 pm »
Yes, we trained quite a few AirTanker (the civilian side of the A330 Voyager operation) pilots, and both they and former VC10, L1011, A400, C17 and C130 pilots have been regular recruits for Virgin. I myself came from 22 years in the RAF (mostly C130, but also Hunter, Hawk, Lightning and 5 years QFI-ing on Bulldogs) when I joined Virgin in 1998.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1669 on: 18 May, 2020, 02:50:44 pm »
My friends dad was one of the pilots in the famous 21 ship Hunter loop Tim.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

ElyDave

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1670 on: 18 May, 2020, 07:18:22 pm »
Yes, we trained quite a few AirTanker (the civilian side of the A330 Voyager operation) pilots, and both they and former VC10, L1011, A400, C17 and C130 pilots have been regular recruits for Virgin. I myself came from 22 years in the RAF (mostly C130, but also Hunter, Hawk, Lightning and 5 years QFI-ing on Bulldogs) when I joined Virgin in 1998.

If you were on hunters and C130s, then theres a high likelihood you came across my dad at some point. He did 28years altogether, PVR in the early 90s. He was on a hunter squadron during the Oman insurgency, and was his last posting was to Brize in about 85.  He was on MSS for VC10 and hercs.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

TimC

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1671 on: 18 May, 2020, 08:02:22 pm »
My friends dad was one of the pilots in the famous 21 ship Hunter loop Tim.

I think we've had that conversation before, Pat. Was he 111Sqn or one of the supporting cast? I knew quite a few of the guys who were part of that record loop, as they were very much contemporaries of my Dad, who commanded 111 Sqn on Lightnings at the end of the 1960s. My own time on Hunters was short; I did the Tactical Weapons Unit course on the FGA9 on 2TWU at RAF Lossiemouth in 1979.

Dave, I did visit Oman quite a bit, but the insurgency was technically over before I ever went there. I joined the C130 fleet in 1980 on LXX Sqn then 24 Sqn, so it's quite likely I knew your Dad. I left in 1987 to go and do my QFI time, then returned at the end of 1991 firstly on 30 Sqn then as an instructor on the OCU.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1672 on: 18 May, 2020, 08:42:17 pm »
Captain (then Flt. Lt) Will Scarlett. He was 1 Sqn I think (that's what the 22 loop list I have seen says) and flew XE584 in the loop formation. He was position 5-3 in the loop. The cockpit section of XE584 still exists and is at The Aeroplane Collection, Hooton Park, Ellesmere Port.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

TimC

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1673 on: 18 May, 2020, 09:01:15 pm »
Hooton Park - another very historic place. The WW1 hangars were derelict last time I heard anything about the place. Has one or more been restored now?

I've just checked my logbook to see if XE584 was ever upgraded to FGA9 status and made its way up north, but sadly not. XE597 was the nearest I flew. I wonder if I flew any of the others that were involved? They'd all have been F6s then, I believe.

PaulF

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1674 on: 18 May, 2020, 09:08:29 pm »
In which case my father is also a contemporary I think? He was OC of the C130 OCU around 1980 and then the transport fleet Examining Unit before retirement in about 1990.