TCR no8.

[paddyirish]

Sorry, I'm going to have to duck out of this thread, I've received a PM asking me to stop.

Thanks everyone for the supportive comments, maybe see some of you on the road.

J

Sorry you've been asked to butt out of the thread. I don't always agree with everything you say, but it is always interesting, polite and coming from a desire to be curious and to improve - I don't get why some people are so aggressive and dismissive.

I've not achieved anything like what you have, but it is clear to me that these events are about getting your bike, body and mind from start to the end as quickly as you can safely manage.  Only you know what your limits are and only you will recognise when you are surpassing them.  An awful lot of people at the top end of TCR07 and The Wild Atlantic Way, who were "racing" seemed to neglect one of the three and scratched as a result.

[Frank9755]

As there are sufficient numbers of proper TCR riders on here, a question from a Dotwatcher.

Volunteering for a CP.  I could not contemplate entering TCRn, too old, too much a hobby cyclist, etc.  I was thinking about volunteering for a CP.  But.  Should I get a place on that, given that volunteering gets individuals brownie points for getting accepted onto a future race, would I be blocking an aspirational 'proper' rider?

I'd like to help and support.  But I would not want to deprive someone of a chance to enter.

Or am I being too sensitive?

The race relies on good volunteers.  If you are not taking a starting place you are not stopping anyone else from having one. 

[S2L]

Sorry, I'm going to have to duck out of this thread, I've received a PM asking me to stop.

Thanks everyone for the supportive comments, maybe see some of you on the road.

J

very odd.... 

[S2L]

Hmm, 22 X 34 is Shimano's lowest gear of mountain biking from the 9 speed era.

You might well be right... I no longer have it to check. It was a Deore LX 9 speed

Point is the granny gear was not much to go uphill, but rather to go over rocks or roots, to avoid "getting stuck" so to speak. I've never found it of any use up a long incline.

[Frank9755]

I had a mountain bike, in the days when 28 x 36 was the smallest gear... usable in very few instances, but possible on a bike with 2.5 inch tyres, no load and very wide flat bars... on 25 mm tyres, with a loaded bike and road bars?... not so sure

If I had a pound for every time I'd heard someone who hadn't tried it assert on a forum that someone else's gearing was too low, I could probably afford a new, bigger cassette!

I mainly associate this with old buffers on the CTC forum about 10 years ago, when I was setting up my touring bike with a 19" bottom gear: 34 at the back, the biggest you could get in 9-speed at the time, and a 22 ring inner on a triple.  They came from the era when such gearing was not available and lacked the imagination to believe it would work.  Their mantra was generally 'I would fall off if I pedalled that slowly.' 

But they wouldn't have done.  I did lots of touring on it, including a trip across France with a camping load of 20kg.  I generally travel lighter these days, but that bike now has a seat for my 2-year old daughter on the back and, in August I took her round the Isle of Wight - along with four (small) panniers.  That bottom gear was, is and always has been perfect for a very heavy bike with road bars on steep hills at very low speed!

My TCR bike has 30/46 on the front and 11-42 on the back, which gives a similar gear.  I've not had to walk on any on-road climbs with that, but I did at CP2 in Serbia.  That wasn't an issue of gearing, it was that it was necessary to go faster over the loose surface than I, or any of those around me, were able able to sustain.

[S2L]

My TCR bike has 30/46 on the front and 11-42 on the back, which gives a similar gear.  I've not had to walk on any on-road climbs with that, but I did at CP2 in Serbia.  That wasn't an issue of gearing, it was that it was necessary to go faster over the loose surface than I, or any of those around me, were able able to sustain.

The way I see it is that gearing is the last resort, once you've done the homework you look at the gearing if needs be.
It's a bit like having hip problems that prevent you from walking properly... training is a bit like doing the physio and the exercises prescribed, getting smaller gears is a bit like buying a stick and accepting that you'll never get better

[Jeff E]

Kicking Q off this thread seems against the YACF ethos.    She is not being abusive.   She is being inquisitive, and without her questions (aligned with her detailed experiences) we would not get members of the stature of Zigzag to respond in so much detail.   YACF is probably the ultimate resource for all but the very elite cyclist, but even James H and Zigzag will probably admit to still learning, as they push the boundaries of what is possible.     MODERATORS:  Please encourage Q to continue to contribute on all threads.   Her openness and honesty sets a good example for all forumites.   Those with less experience are not going to be encouraged to post, if they fear to be shot down like Q.    Q has shown great fortitude not only on her bike, but by continuing to post here, when others are only accepting the capabilities of those much younger, and with more resources, than Q.     YACF should be a Forum for ALL.

[hatler]

Yay !!  ^ ^ Exactly that. ^ ^  Though it's not clear who asked QG to stop posting on this thread.

[Frank9755]

It's not really clear what happened.  If someone sent her a message saying 'stop posting on the thread' I'd be surprised if she complied.

[DuncanM]

My TCR bike has 30/46 on the front and 11-42 on the back, which gives a similar gear.  I've not had to walk on any on-road climbs with that, but I did at CP2 in Serbia.  That wasn't an issue of gearing, it was that it was necessary to go faster over the loose surface than I, or any of those around me, were able able to sustain.

The way I see it is that gearing is the last resort, once you've done the homework you look at the gearing if needs be.
It's a bit like having hip problems that prevent you from walking properly... training is a bit like doing the physio and the exercises prescribed, getting smaller gears is a bit like buying a stick and accepting that you'll never get better

Alternatively, you can view gearing as being part of the system that is going to get you to the finish as fast as possible. Would you tell a TTer who does a sub 50 25 while grinding at 70rpm that they shouldn't have such a big gear available? Or tell a CX rider that they don't need low gears because they can just run if they can't ride their current gearing?
I don't see why having low enough gears to minimise walking while on a long event would be remotely controversial.

[S2L]

I don't see why having low enough gears to minimise walking while on a long event would be remotely controversial.

Not controversial at all.

I don't think I made myself clear. Initially, I said that looking at gearing was important in an event with significant altitude difference, but not as important as losing weight and increasing power/weight ratio.
If the latter cannot be addressed or has already been addressed, then gearing is next.
IMO it's never the starting point

I can't see how racing can be separated from training to improve those numbers, the two can only work in conjunction.

Too many people train without actually racing (the Zwift syndrome) and seemingly there are a few who race without actually training.

I don't race, so I don't train... I maybe cycle 8,000 miles per year, but I don't train to get better or faster or anything. If I wanted to race, I'd probably start training

[Frank9755]

My TCR bike has 30/46 on the front and 11-42 on the back, which gives a similar gear.  I've not had to walk on any on-road climbs with that, but I did at CP2 in Serbia.  That wasn't an issue of gearing, it was that it was necessary to go faster over the loose surface than I, or any of those around me, were able able to sustain.

The way I see it is that gearing is the last resort, once you've done the homework you look at the gearing if needs be.
It's a bit like having hip problems that prevent you from walking properly... training is a bit like doing the physio and the exercises prescribed, getting smaller gears is a bit like buying a stick and accepting that you'll never get better

I think you are digging yourself into a hole! Have you been reading too much of this sort of thing on the internet?

You have to have one or more gears on your bike when you go out for your next ride.  Someone has to decide what that gear is or those gears are.  It could be the manufacturer, the guy in the shop or the rider.  Why shouldn't the rider have a say in it?

[S2L]

I think you are digging yourself into a hole! Have you been reading too much of this sort of thing on the internet?

Frank, there is no need to point fingers... it's just my experience... I started road cycling in the days of 42 x 23 as lowest gear, then it became 39 x 27, then it became 34 x 28 and then it became 36 x 34.
Have I improved my climbing ability as a result? Not an iota.
The small gear will get me out of trouble when I am really tired, so it's nice to have it, but it's not the remedy to lack of fitness. Training is the remedy

[grams]

S2L, what you actually said was that unless she doubles her W/kg overnight she's going to fall off on the first hill and might as well not bother.

Sorry to make this personal, but on this and other threads you've repeatedly failed to understand other humans who are different from you. Maybe step out of the thread until you do.

[mattc]

Good luck QG I'd say your gearing is fine. If you have to walk you have to walk, but by that point it'll be faster than riding anyway.

Absolutely! and I find in those "get off and walk" situations that it's good to consider that the small amount of time walking with the bike as being extremely beneficial for the miles that lay ahead... just keep moving

+1

(Everyone's different - so clearly they have different kit and gearing needs. Seems like QG is on the right track.)

[S2L]

Sorry to make this personal, but on this and other threads you've repeatedly failed to understand other humans who are different from you. Maybe step out of the thread until you do.

I'll do just that...

Although I fail to see how my advice differs so much from Frank9755's

There's no magic, just try to improve your W/kg.  On turbo, on road or both

[Phil W]

The only reason I can think that QG was asked to desist from this thread and complied is that the person who sent the PM is connected with the organisation of TCR08.  The only message she can have been given, in order that she comply, is that her place is at risk, if she continues  with some of the themes in this thread.

Now it could be, that her discussions in this thread, are considered to fall outside of the self supported ethos, even before the race begins. It may be the, are you racing or not question, is considered off limits, and raised some heckles.

A bit like a defence barrister, she may have been advised to remain silent, before she incriminates herself, as in loses the chance of a place at TCR08.

[Frank9755]

Unlikely.

[Phil W]

If unlikely, and PM not from anyone connected with TCR08, I find it weird that a  PM would make QG leave the thread . Just weird.

[quixoticgeek]

The only reason I can think that QG was asked to desist from this thread and complied is that the person who sent the PM is connected with the organisation of TCR08.  The only message she can have been given, in order that she comply, is that her place is at risk, if she continues  with some of the themes in this thread.

Now it could be, that her discussions in this thread, are considered to fall outside of the self supported ethos, even before the race begins. It may be the, are you racing or not question, is considered off limits, and raised some heckles.

A bit like a defence barrister, she may have been advised to remain silent, before she incriminates herself, as in loses the chance of a place at TCR08.

Replying to protect lostdot before this rumour gathers any hint of traction.

No, it's not from lostdot, or anyone involved in the race.

It's not from any of the forum moderators. It's a user who has objected to my contributing to this thread. I don't have the spoons for dealing with messages like that, so to reduce the chance of more people objecting, I chose to step out.

Hopefully this clarification won't trigger yet more PM's.

J

[hatler]

Good grief.

Nothing like a free press.

That sounds like pretty shabby behaviour.

I think where we are interacting is commonly known as 'a forum'. The mysterious requester should perhaps remind themselves of what that word means.

[DuncanM]

It's not from any of the forum moderators. It's a user who has objected to my contributing to this thread. I don't have the spoons for dealing with messages like that, so to reduce the chance of more people objecting, I chose to step out.

I think your contributions to this thread, in keeping with your contributions elsewhere, have been entirely beneficial. I see no reason why you should not continue to post here or elsewhere, and I'm sad that you feel that you should restrict yourself in such a way. I hope you continue to post as you have been and that you get to ride TCR and do as well as you are able (whatever you gearing or equipment choices).
I don't think PMs asking anyone to keep out of a thread (with the obvious caveats) are in keeping with this forum.

[morbihan]

For the life of me I can't imagine why someone would object to you posting queries and contributions on here QG.
 Its most odd.
If you do decide to duck out  I hope its not  because you feel bullied into it by one bizarre individual.

[Pedal Castro]

I’ve just bought my first geared bike in, probably, 10 years.

My lowest gear is 34*28.  Should I be worried ?

My first road bike was 34*28. I never carried really big loads (aside from myself...) up big chunky steep hills on it but for general riding I think it is adequate. I don't regret having moved to 34*32 though!

I toured the Lake District with 44x28 bottom gear back in 1979, we thought it strange to see a pair of Canadians at the foot of the Struggle with 36x36!!! I stopped halfway up to take of my top layer and REALLY struggled to get going again, feet strapped in, hanging on to the dry stone wall and heave! I think it took 3 attempts...

[Sergeant Pluck]

It's not from any of the forum moderators. It's a user who has objected to my contributing to this thread. I don't have the spoons for dealing with messages like that, so to reduce the chance of more people objecting, I chose to step out.

I think your contributions to this thread, in keeping with your contributions elsewhere, have been entirely beneficial. I see no reason why you should not continue to post here or elsewhere, and I'm sad that you feel that you should restrict yourself in such a way. I hope you continue to post as you have been and that you get to ride TCR and do as well as you are able (whatever you gearing or equipment choices).
I don't think PMs asking anyone to keep out of a thread (with the obvious caveats) are in keeping with this forum.

Seconded.