riding non-AUK events as part of a perm

[Martin]

( New readers; please skip to page 2 of this thread for this topic) Please note I have taken over SE DIYs only from Andy Uttley as from now. So if you live in Kent, East or West Sussex, Hampshire, IOW, Surrey, Berkshire, London, Essex or Suffolk you are in the SE and should apply to me.

Any DIY cards you obtained from Andy should now be sent to me after riding to my address shown on the AUK perms section of the website.

New cards may also be obtained from this address, and I also sell them via Paypal (cost and email address also shown on the webite, please take out the space in my email)

[arabella]

Thanks for the info, Martin.

What's you're preferred method of checking distances?  eg autoroute 2001 (shortest)/google maps (walk) etc.

<xxxx> is going through a phase of being difficult so I may be sending you a few routes to be done as the occasion arises.

I don't think I have anything banked with Andy, certainly nothing planned.

[Martin]

Thanks for the info, Martin.

What's you're preferred method of checking distances?  eg autoroute 2001 (shortest)/google maps (walk) etc.

you can't use google maps (not sure why)

viamichelin please for the moment until I can get to grips with Autoroute (assuming the copy I have even works) vm requires a town name, postcode or road name to find a location.

[Ivo]

Good news.
I tried to get in touch with Andy a number of times since I wanted to start doing DIY's on the continent. And excellent that you accept paypal. I know of a few other AUK members in this part of the continent who want to start riding DIY's.

[Martin]

no problem with Continental DIY's as long as viamichelin or Autoroute can measure them

Top Tip; to get an electronic entry form go to another calendar event, download the personal pre-filled entry form with your AUK number; copy / paste the whole page to a Word doc (shrink the margins so it fits on one page; get rid of the parental permission bit to save space if you need) and change the event details to DIY Permanent, add a scan or photo of your signature in the right place; then save that on your computer, you can then use that for future rides by just changing the controls. Otherwise just write one out scan it and save it as a pdf.

Assuming you are confident of the distance you can then email me the entry form the night before you do the ride  

[Ivo]

Viamichelin works excellently in the Benelux. A lot better as the autorouting function of Garmin. Since probably a few others will have the same question, what's the surcharge for continental postage?

[Martin]

Viamichelin works excellently in the Benelux. A lot better as the autorouting function of Garmin. Since probably a few others will have the same question, what's the surcharge for continental postage?

I wouldn't worry about it; a few £pence; it will be swallowed up along with the other Paypal fees   just pay the normal UK price. I already have to go and buy large letter UK stamps to send multiple cards back, the odd E one won't make a vast difference.

[mattc]

Thanks for the info, Martin.

What's you're preferred method of checking distances?  eg autoroute 2001 (shortest)/google maps (walk) etc.

you can't use google maps (not sure why)

viamichelin please for the moment until I can get to grips with Autoroute (assuming the copy I have even works) vm requires a town name, postcode or road name to find a location.

I find Google-Maps (walk) gives an excellent "first draft" distance - it rarely reads too high, often a smidge under using footpaths. [Of course it is not guaranteed shortest!]

That's interesting news about continental perms - I'll look into this ...

[ian_oli]

It's great that you're willing to take the job on.

I am planning to cycle with my teenage son to Italy in advance of the Mille Miglia and do 200Ks on some days. I have a couple of  questions about DIYs before I start sending routes in etc.

Is there any issue with what version of Autoroute I use? I have a copy of Autoroute Express 2000 (it came with a "free" copy of Works long ago and has no version number) and I prefer it to ViaMichelin for speed. Also is it handier if I email you the .axe files - once you have had a chance to get to grips with the software, that is?

Secondly, would we each have to get separate receipts?  I can see myself causing annoyance where I ask to split to the bill for a meal or an overnight stop and then pay both halves.

As a tip, Google Streetview has been a great help in planning controls as you can find what villages still have a cafe or a boulangerie, as sadly Carrefour etc. seems to be doing in France what your Tescos and Asdas have done here and there are long shopless stretches across France if you avoid the big towns. Also whether any stretches of Route Nationale are full of thundering juggernauts, or not.

[Martin]

I have a couple of  questions about DIYs before I start sending routes in etc.

1. Is there any issue with what version of Autoroute I use? I have a copy of Autoroute Express 2000 (it came with a "free" copy of Works long ago and has no version number) and I prefer it to ViaMichelin for speed. Also is it handier if I email you the .axe files - once you have had a chance to get to grips with the software, that is?

2. Secondly, would we each have to get separate receipts?  I can see myself causing annoyance where I ask to split to the bill for a meal or an overnight stop and then pay both halves.

Ian;

1. my version of AR is 2004 and does not like opening later versions so if it's 2004 or earlier should be OK; I think you can also send viamichelin itineraries by email if you prefer. But either method has to include some points I can write on the card (placename, road name etc)

2. I think so yes; seems a bit academic as even with 2 lots of receipts there is no assurance that 2 of you actually rode (train tickets and air boarding cards are probably the only thing that shows a name on them). Things like hotel bills are probably OK left as just one as long as both cards are going back to the same address.

[dasmoth]

Quick question for Martin: I seem to remember that Hertfordshire was previously included in Andy Uttley's "territory".  Are you covering Hertfordshire?  And if not, do you know who is?

At some point in the past, I remember seeing a map of DIY organizer's territories (maybe on Danial Webb's website?), but can't find it at the moment.  Is there any other official source for this information?

[megajoules expenditure]

The only map I could find quickly was the one which demarks the event secs areas which uses the same areas and Hertfordshire just creeps into Danial's area so looks like he's the man if you live in Herts.

I think there was a map published in Arrivee a few editions ago but perhaps we should get this onto the DIY page of the AUK site.

Cheers

Lucy

Quick question for Martin: I seem to remember that Hertfordshire was previously included in Andy Uttley's "territory".  Are you covering Hertfordshire?  And if not, do you know who is?

At some point in the past, I remember seeing a map of DIY organizer's territories (maybe on Danial Webb's website?), but can't find it at the moment.  Is there any other official source for this information?

[dasmoth]

The only map I could find quickly was the one which demarks the event secs areas which uses the same areas and Hertfordshire just creeps into Danial's area so looks like he's the man if you live in Herts.

Thanks Lucy.  I've found the event secretaries' map you mention in the organizer's guide on the website.

[Martin]

I think Andy covered a very large area before and I've had several emails from riders who have Andy's cards though not on his patch according to the map; although I will of course honour any DIY's ridden on cards from Andy.

we ought to get that map out on the AUK website in the public (or rather members') domain; I've only seen it in the organisers' guidelines.

[MSeries]

we ought to get that map out on the AUK website in the public (or rather members') domain; I've only seen it in the organisers' guidelines.

Can we have a statement to let us know if we use  a particular organiser because we live in his/her patch or because we are riding on their patch. I always assume it's the former since we live in one place but I think others assume something different so I am now questioning my assumption. In addition regarding DIY validation using GPS, since my usual/local DIY org isn't administering this scheme should I turn to on whose patch adjoins mine ?

[Ivo]

Same for continental AUKs. Free choice of DIY organiser, that's how it at least looks like.

[mattc]

Can we have a statement to let us know if we use  a particular organiser because we live in his/her patch or because we are riding on their patch. I always assume it's the former since we live in one place but I think others assume something different so I am now questioning my assumption.

Mr N, I agree that a formal statement would be handy. HOWEVER, reading between the lines in the recent past the situation seems clear:

Your local rep has to take your entry if you ask, but if you can persuade someone else to take it (because the ride is on their patch, or Other Reasons), then that is upto them.

(e.g. living in Oxon, it seems fairly practical to send scottish rides to our Alba rep, but they would be quite in their rights to send me back to the Oxon guy).

[Martin]

following on from discussions yesterday; it appears that doing another organised non-AUK BR ride at the same time as the main event as part of a DIY is against the rules


5.9 Participation in events: participants are on a private excursion on the public highway and their conduct is covered by the law of the land. Participants may ride singly or in groups and may pace each other. No other cyclist or motor vehicle may pace riders or contact them between controls except in the case of an accident or emergency.

so this effectively rules out sportives; the Dun Run etc as part of a 200+ DIY (it appears the 100km IOW Randonnee escapes). Although sharing the route with some events eg the L2B could be seen as a positive disadvantage WRT pacing....

[mattc]

yebbut that rules holds no water at all - what if a ctc ride ends up on your route? Do you have to sit 10m behind them until they deviate, not speaking to them  in case "contact" is made?
It requires a lot of interpretation. Which always leads to felixibility.

[RichForrest]

How about a ride like the good companions on the 2nd day of the 3 coasts.

[MSeries]

How about a ride like the good companions on the 2nd day of the 3 coasts.

The Good Companions is not a 'non AUK' ride.

[mattc]

... but Rule 5.9 makes no distinction between 'normal' cyclists/motorists and cyclists on another AUK event.

It's clear as mud (as my grandad would say).

[MSeries]

Well, if a DIY Organiser says it's not permitted then I'll respect that ruling. All DIY Orgs must share the same view though.

[Martin]

Well, if a DIY Organiser says it's not permitted then I'll respect that ruling. All DIY Orgs must share the same view though.

agreed; we'll have a huddle;

the subject came about because I pointed out that had I ridden another 13km and bothered with the validation I could have got 2 points and 3 AAA out of last week's sportive in France,

I would not do so though because claiming AUK points for a non- AUK ride you are going to do anyway is definitely not in the spirit IMO

(absolutely no problem with copying another route into a DIY and riding it another time though)

[Manotea]

I would have no problem with diying sportives, raids, whatever, and
I've happily claimed 4 points for a round trip to dunwich in the past.

ISTM the regs you are quoting are to differentiate Audax from racing/timetrialing/competitive events (Audax is not competitive - and neither are sportives on open roads AFAICT!)

Ref: in the spirit, for pointbashers the problem is time management, getting the most out of ones riding time and not being forced to not ride non-auk events. For me, the issue of 'not in the spirit' relates to generating purely artificial rides such as DIYing your commute which is seeemingly increasingly possible.