TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers

[citoyen]

Samuel Sanchez:
He'll be joined at the hip to Contador through the Alps. Not sure what his time-trialling is like, a good bet for the podium, maybe not the overall,

What I find really interesting is the way Sanchez and Contador have formed an alliance. Presumably Sanchez thinks it improves his own chances of a podium spot.

Sanchez's time-trialling isn't too bad - considerably better than either of the Schlecks. (He won the time trial in the 2007 Vuelta - beat Cadel by 19 seconds over the 20km course, apparently.)

d.

[Honest John]

I still reckon that the schlecks are planning something! I've got the afternoons off tomorrow and Friday so I can find out just what they've got up their (aerodynamic) sleeves!

They'd better grow a pair each and learn how to ride downhill first.

Today they're both whinging about the course.

Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

All Cuddles, Voeckler and Bertie the Beefeater need to do to beat them is to get away on the descents.

[Tewdric]

Today was epic.  It's going to be a proper bunfight from now to Paris.  Best tour for years IMHO.

[gonzo]

Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

[jogler]

Today was epic.  It's going to be a proper bunfight from now to Paris.  Best tour for years IMHO.

+1

[Deano]

Edvald Boasson Hagen looks like the real deal.

I warmed to him at the start of a Tour of Britain stage a couple of years ago, where he tolerated my old man giving him tips for the race.  Not that my old man's tips are bad, but...

[jogler]

Edvald Boasson Hagen looks like the real deal.

I warmed to him at the start of a Tour of Britain stage a couple of years ago, where he tolerated my old man giving him tips for the race. Not that my old man's tips are bad, but...

they have clearly done EBH some good

[David Martin]

I still reckon that the schlecks are planning something! I've got the afternoons off tomorrow and Friday so I can find out just what they've got up their (aerodynamic) sleeves!

They'd better grow a pair each and learn how to ride downhill first.

Today they're both whinging about the course.

Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

All Cuddles, Voeckler and Bertie the Beefeater need to do to beat them is to get away on the descents.

As Dave Brailsford said 'they have known for nearly a year that those descents are on the route.' and in paraphrase 'why are they waiting till now to complain about them? Stop whining and grow a pair, or at least do your homework properly'

[LittleWheelsandBig]

You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

A Tour winner should be a well-rounded rider, outstanding in some aspects and at least competent in the rest. Descending is a skill and only having mountaintop finishes doesn't allow skilful descenders to make the most of their abilities. I'm glad the TdF organisers have finally put together a well-rounded Tour after years of one-dimensional courses.

[Honest John]

Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

What DM and LW&B said ^^.

Sorry, if you can't ride fast down a dangerous, twisty, narrow descent, then cycle racing is not a wise career choice. Stick to touring (if you can find companions patient enough to wait for you).

You can always slow down and lose the race, if you think it's too dangerous.

[gonzo]

A Tour winner should be a well-rounded rider, outstanding in some aspects and at least competent in the rest. Descending is a skill and only having mountaintop finishes doesn't allow skilful descenders to make the most of their abilities. I'm glad the TdF organisers have finally put together a well-rounded Tour after years of one-dimensional courses.

I'm not disagreeing, but where do you draw the line with regards to dangerous descents for the sake of entertainment? I say this because the commentary today didn't go 5 minutes without mentioning how dangerous the descent was ad that was two different lots of commentators. 5 live sounded properly concerned for the safety of the riders.

Riders will take risks that are too great to win anyhow, you only have to look at the riders who died in their sleep after EPO usage.

Again, let's not forget that there's already been one fatality this year on a descent.

[jogler]

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

will we be getting

TdF the Gladiator version?
TdF the Braveheart version?

 

[Honest John]

A Tour winner should be a well-rounded rider, outstanding in some aspects and at least competent in the rest. Descending is a skill and only having mountaintop finishes doesn't allow skilful descenders to make the most of their abilities. I'm glad the TdF organisers have finally put together a well-rounded Tour after years of one-dimensional courses.

I'm not disagreeing, but where do you draw the line with regards to dangerous descents for the sake of entertainment? I say this because the commentary today didn't go 5 minutes without mentioning how dangerous the descent was ad that was two different lots of commentators. 5 live sounded properly concerned for the safety of the riders.

Riders will take risks that are too great to win anyhow, you only have to look at the riders who died in their sleep after EPO usage.

Again, let's not forget that there's already been one fatality this year on a descent.

Well, first, the TdF and the Giro started as publicity stunts for the media, as they are still to some extent. And the Giro and the Vuelta have both at times been publicity stunts for fascist governments. The result of all this has been the creation of the world's greatest three-week bicycle races.

Second, all the riders reached Pinerolo safely today, including those who went hors-piste - and one of those still holds the maillot jaune.

And, third, Wouter Weyland died after he'd given up descending fast - he slowed down after realising he wasn't going to win any prizes that day. He crashed after looking back to see whether any others were coming down who he could link up with to finish the descent.

[spesh]

Any descent is only as dangerous as you are willing to make it.

EBH had taken the trouble to recce the Cote de Pramartino, and it paid dividends in that he was able to descend in confidence, without running out of road.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/descent-recon-pays-dividends-for-boasson-hagen

[gonzo]

I'm not saying these descents are dangerous. What I'm wondering is where you draw the line?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Punji stake pits are probably over the line. Most other things are fine though.

[GruB]

Edvald Boasson Hagen looks like the real deal.

+1 

[spesh]

I'm not saying these descents are dangerous. What I'm wondering is where you draw the line?

If the descent has a reasonably good metalled surface, I wouldn't be too fussed, but dirt/gravel tracks would be pushing things a bit.

There's a relevant thread on the cyclingnews forum and someone's posted a picture of the sort of road that they used to have to ride on.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=613353&postcount=152

I'm not sure I'd fancy riding down that on a modern road bike, perhaps a 'cross bike or a short-travel full-suspension MTB.

[Honest John]

Any descent is only as dangerous as you are willing to make it.

+1

[Honest John]

I'm not saying these descents are dangerous. What I'm wondering is where you draw the line?

When it's not a road? However, the Italians are fond of putting strade bianchi into the parcours. You can even do a sportive over the strade bianchi, on retro bikes and wearing retro kit, ifyou so wish.

On the subject of dodgy downhills, a couple of weeks ago I rode down a descent not unlike that at the end of today's TdF stage, with the added bonus of four unlit and twisty tunnels.

I wasn't racing, but rode as fast as I dared (with a stop to take photos). IMHO this (and the dirt road leading to it) would be a far better end to a TdF stage than Alpe d'Huez on the opposite side of the valley.

[Honest John]

Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

What DM and LW&B said ^^.

Sorry, if you can't ride fast down a dangerous, twisty, narrow descent, then cycle racing is not a wise career choice. Stick to touring (if you can find companions patient enough to wait for you).

You can always slow down and lose the race, if you think it's too dangerous.

Not you, personally. I was thinking more of Gebrueder Schleck.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Are there any more extensive online highlights than what is on offer on ITV4? Some of the stage highlights seem to last just a few minutes and I can no sense of how the stage went at all.

[Honest John]

Are there any more extensive online highlights than what is on offer on ITV4? Some of the stage highlights seem to last just a few minutes and I can no sense of how the stage went at all.

Try Eurosport if you have broadband and want to pay £35 a year (that's less than 10p a day). They repeat their one-hour highlights programmes a couple of times.

[onb]

I am tempted to pull a sickie tomorrow.

[Rig of Jarkness]

I say this because the commentary today didn't go 5 minutes without mentioning how dangerous the descent was ad that was two different lots of commentators. 5 live sounded properly concerned for the safety of the riders.

You could tell how difficult it was by the way the motorbikes were struggling to keep up - it looked absolutely terrifying !  The cameramen deserve medals for the footage they got yesterday.