[HAMR] womens record attempt - Kajsa Tylen Jan 1st start

[Grandad]

Thanks everyone.

[rafletcher]

Well the Guinness chickens are coming home to roost, and Kajsa is not a happy bunny.  She queried Guinness' acceptance of Kurts record, and they've now said "yes, we have, and we have "edited" the rules to allow multiple bikes, recumbents and drafting".  Oh and they hope this "edit" to match UMCA rules won't have impacted her - like not being able to draft/take shelter during the recent storms. 

Oh, and her mum thinks it's "shite" 

[mattc]

For those that haven't see it yet:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=LC_nY94pDLg

Oh dear

There is a danger that this record attempt will be diverted by the same rules debates as Bruce's.

( If anyone feels we whould split the thread, please go ahead.)

[Chris S]

We both agree with Kajsa's Mum 

[mrcharly-YHT]

I'm not surprised, after what gwr did to mike hall

[mrcharly-YHT]

just watched the vid. she's in a pickle.

I can't offer help. My gut feeling is 'draft where possible.

[Polar Bear]

I also agree with Kajsa and her mum.   Guinness are a bunch of twunts.

Kurt is in no way to blame for the stupidity of Guinness and Guinness should have been in touch with Kajsa as soon as they changed their rules to let her know.
   

[Kim]

My gut feeling is carry on as she has been doing, but that's because I'm seeing this as a record of determination rather than athletic achievement.  The rational thing to do is for her to take every advantage she can get.

Actually the rational thing to do is worry about what rules Guinness will come up with next month.

What her mum said, basically.

[MacB]

She should take any and every advantage possible because anyone following is certainly going to do so. As long as Guiness/UMCA ratify then people will only remember the total. It's still 100 miles plus every day for a year, the mental challenge remains.

Still being able to enjoy more sociable riding could do wonders for her mindset as the year progresses.

[Polar Bear]

My gut feeling is carry on as she has been doing, but that's because I'm seeing this as a record of determination rather than athletic achievement.  The rational thing to do is for her to take every advantage she can get.

Actually the rational thing to do is worry about what rules Guinness will come up with next month.

What her mum said, basically.

Yeah, I hadn't considered that.

She should take any and every advantage possible because anyone following is certainly going to do so. As long as Guiness/UMCA ratify then people will only remember the total. It's still 100 miles plus every day for a year, the mental challenge remains.

Still being able to enjoy more sociable riding could do wonders for her mindset as the year progresses.

If she'd been drafting she might have put in bigger mileages.

[Basil]

My feeling is that if she wants to create a non drafted record, she's going to have to prove to Guinness that she never drafted at any time in the whole year.
How's she going to do that?

[Wowbagger]

I don't think people will remember only the total. These year-long challenges are such epic events (events isn't the best word, because it implies something short-lived to my mind) that the actual miles are really only part of it. Previous attempts have been brought to life in Citizen Fish's book so we know what happened. Menzies eventually overcoming Ossie Nicholson's record years later when in his 60s never set the world record because this was long after Tommy Godwin's time, but it is a magnificent testimony to bloody-mindedness.

Everyone will know for evermore what Steve did. It has been recorded for posterity on YACF, Steve's own website, on Idai's videos, in Zoe Williams' articles, in plenty of other places, but his achievement of over 60,000 miles merely (word chosen carefully) places him 4th on the all-time list. We all say it's about the miles, not the weather/hills/wind/whatever, but the epic nature of the challenge makes every year-long effort a monument to itself.

[macnark]

As Kajsa started this with the intention of going without drafting, on one bike, I'd probably suggest she carries on like that.

She can do it, and she would earn immense respect for sticking with it.

She should vehemently insist that GWR rescind their amendmend to the womens' rules,  for attempts done under GWR rules only.
Keep the UMCA rules for those who want to set that record.

She should seek the support of all who care, who would be prepared to put their names to a petition, to respectfully request that Guinness do the only honourable thing and retain the rules which Kajsa planned hard for, and has worked hard to maintain.

You cannot reasonably change the rules for an event which has already begun, more so one which demands someone's invesment of a year of their life.

Be fair, Guinness, do the right thing, keep this a Guinness only record, based on your rules at the time the attempt was started, and do not change the rules to favour others or indeed to penalise others, once the year has passed. 

Consistency is key.

Good luck Kajsa - ignore this if needs be, just the ramblings of an old git

[Kim]

My feeling is that if she wants to create a non drafted record, she's going to have to prove to Guinness that she never drafted at any time in the whole year.
How's she going to do that?

Timelapse camera.  Not something you can do retrospectively.

[macnark]

Yebbut - she STARTED the thing as a no drafting attempt. Whatever was agreed at the time should be sufficient. NO CHANGES TO RULES IN AN EVENT ALREADY UNDERWAY. Then no changes therafter if the name of the event is the same.

[red marley]

My feeling is that if she wants to create a non drafted record, she's going to have to prove to Guinness that she never drafted at any time in the whole year.
How's she going to do that?

Presumably the same way she was required to do so in the last month.

The women's record will be beaten by someone else in the future. Quite possibly before the end of 2017. Almost certainly it will involve drafting, a greater range of bikes and other more professional-like support. Like Kim I am most inspired by the fact this is a demonstration of determination and in the spirit of Billie Dovey. I think there will be far fewer, if any, who will take a future record in that spirit, so she has something to gain by being the last to do so.

[Basil]

My feeling is that if she wants to create a non drafted record, she's going to have to prove to Guinness that she never drafted at any time in the whole year.
How's she going to do that?

Presumably the same way she was required to do so in the last month.

The women's record will be beaten by someone else in the future. Quite possibly before the end of 2017. Almost certainly it will involve drafting, a greater range of bikes and other more professional-like support. Like Kim I am most inspired by the fact this is a demonstration of determination and in the spirit of Billie Dovey. I think there will be far fewer, if any, who will take a future record in that spirit, so she has something to gain by being the last to do so.

Hm. Good point.

[Basil]

My feeling is that if she wants to create a non drafted record, she's going to have to prove to Guinness that she never drafted at any time in the whole year.
How's she going to do that?

Timelapse camera.  Not something you can do retrospectively.

Guinness could impose a camera with arse recognition technology.  If it detects an arse, it switches on and beeps Guinness.   

[nikki]

Speaking of arses...

I think my take on it is that, if the option to use a recumbent could lessen damage to her body, then it would be prudent to take the amended rules. And if that situation is considered at all likely to come up in the next 11 months, then she may as well embrace the amended rules now and get the extra miles behind her.

Principles are good, but that would be where I would draw the line I think.


Tina has it in a nutshell though: being messed around and left in limbo isn't the way to treat people, regardless of whether they're in the middle of a record attempt or not. 

[Kim]

Ostensibly yes, but the middle of a record attempt is no time to go recumbent shopping.  https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=95851.0 refers

[teethgrinder]

One of the rules of the UMCA is that the rules may be subject to change during an attempt, as they have been with Bruce not that long ago.

There are still differences between UMCA and Guinness. Guinness do not require power or heart rate data, nor for rides to be uploaded within 24 hours of completion.
I don't know if Guinness insist on helmets, as the UMCA do.
I also never noticed reflective tape all over Kajsa's bike, which is a UMCA requirement.

Guinness insist on witnesses.

UMCA have rules about the use of drugs. I don't know if Guinness do. I expect so but don't know if they are any different. Perhaps Kajsa can have a pint mid ride?
I also doubt that Guinness require crew members to sign a form, though I don't actually know.

I did touch upon the drafting issue with Kajsa last weekend. I sheltered her from a nasty crosswind at one point (more for safety), which was not a breach of the rules because it was acceptable for anyone to ride alongside. I then explained how she could possibly draft people in crosswinds and possibly not be breaking the rules, which are now irrelevant.

Guinness do seem to be a bit ignorant about cycling and I think they'd do well to only accept UMCA attempts, at least from now on. Kajsa began planning her attempt in 2014, before the UMCA had even considered taking it on and I think that Kajsa probably had most of her work done before I started it up with the UMCA.

All in all, a bit of a mess!

[LMT]

That sucks.

Accept it and move on. I doubt Guinness would rescind their agreement with the UMCA, especially as this could have an impact on the Whip making a record attempt.

Buy a recumbent, love your arse, love your neck, love your arms, love your wrists, love cycling. Will aid in the recovery and she'll be able to do more miles.

[zigzag]

i've already said my opinion about the validating "authorities" in Bruce's thread. guinness especially is showing a remarkable lack of respect to Kajsa's effort - her whole preparation and strategy could have been very different under different rules..

[rafletcher]

In some ways Kajsa (and those who follow, if they choose Guinness) would now appear to the best of both worlds - a Guinness ratification if she achieves her goal, the ability to use multiple bikes and drafting, but without some of the more onerous UMCA requirements, so notwithstanding her personal feelings, from a record attempt POV things have improved.  Having said that it's possible that there will be a closing of the differences over time - for instance Guinness adding HR or power data as a requirement.

Go Kajsa - and enjoy your day's cycling.

[teethgrinder]

I wouldn't be surprised if Guinness only accepted claims via the UMCA in the not too distant future. Perhaps they may keep their rule about witnesses, or perhaps the UMCA may adopt that rule too?
The original Guinness rules seem to be flawed from what I know of them, possibly even being life threateningly dangerous regarding not being allowed to use another frame unless the one you are using gets damaged. (I'm thinking that this rule could mean riders using badly fatigued forks to the point of destruction!)
The UMCA originally wanted HAMR to be non drafting and without motor transfers, but we went through all of the impracticalities of this when we set up the rules. What is Kajsa supposed to do if she rides through Cambridge? Staying 3 car lengths behind any other cyclist is going to be a hard task!
I'm guessing that Guinness are forced to accept Kurts' record because it has become too well known but now they are having to re-hash the rules for women to keep it in line with the men's record. The rules for the men's record just make more sense. (but I suppose I would say that because I helped set them up)