what's wrong with "10 items or less"? I've never understood that one.
My pet hate...
the "10 items or less" signs in my local Sainsbury's. >:(
I've been known to carry a marker pen around and correct them... ;D
My pet hate...
the "10 items or less" signs in my local Sainsbury's. >:(
I've been known to carry a marker pen around and correct them... ;D
M&S and Waitrose both use 'fewer'. Shop at either of these and save on marker pens.
I have very poor spoken grammear, Mrs W is always correcting me
I have very poor spoken grammear, Mrs W is always correcting me
Your spelling is not that hot either.... ;D
I have very poor spoken grammear, Mrs W is always correcting me
:-[Honestly, it doesn't matter, Windy. Strike out that :-[ and replace it with a ;D!
I only just scraped my English O level, you can see why.
Whilst fewer criminals would be good, I quite like the idea of less criminals.
Sorry it does matter. English is a wonderful language, in part due to its complexities and oddities. I don't want it to become Leftpondian or txt speak. Let's celebrate its diversity and quirks.
Sorry it does matter. English is a wonderful language, in part due to its complexities and oddities. I don't want it to become Leftpondian or txt speak. Let's celebrate its diversity and quirks.
No, it really does not matter. Let's celebrate the glory and diversity of the English language in the variety of use both spoken and written around the world. There is no need to be pedantic as long as the meaning is clear in the context of everyday use.
I saw a Fewer Spotted Woodpecker last weekend.More pedantry. ;D
Indeed, because then, of course, it would be the lesser-spotted woodpecker - unless that was one that was just observed more infrequently ;)Which - as it happens - is true: it is quite a rare bird. My wife saw one once in our garden, but that was a lucky break. The Great Spotted Woodpecker, on the other hand, is fairly common.
I suspect that standard "correct" modern English has many usages that would have been considered incorrect in our great-grandparents' time
My pet hate...
the "10 items or less" signs in my local Sainsbury's. >:(
I've been known to carry a marker pen around and correct them... ;D
Which - as it happens - is true: it is quite a rare bird. My wife saw one once in our garden, but that was a lucky break
Sorry it does matter. English is a wonderful language, in part due to its complexities and oddities. I don't want it to become Leftpondian or txt speak. Let's celebrate its diversity and quirks.
No, it really does not matter. Let's celebrate the glory and diversity of the English language in the variety of use both spoken and written around the world. There is no need to be pedantic as long as the meaning is clear in the context of everyday use.
However, with the exception of Leftpondia, most English spoken around the world is 'traditional' English, with correct grammar and spelling.
Sorry it does matter. English is a wonderful language, in part due to its complexities and oddities. I don't want it to become Leftpondian or txt speak. Let's celebrate its diversity and quirks.
No, it really does not matter. Let's celebrate the glory and diversity of the English language in the variety of use both spoken and written around the world. There is no need to be pedantic as long as the meaning is clear in the context of everyday use.
However, with the exception of Leftpondia, most English spoken around the world is 'traditional' English, with correct grammar and spelling.
Regretfully incorrect ::-) and also English versions overseas are more likely to be an American version. In Thailand we call it Tinglish :P
QuoteWhich - as it happens - is true: it is quite a rare bird. My wife saw one once in our garden, but that was a lucky break
break or brake (http://www.bartleby.com/61/11/B0451100.html)? :)
Never mind its spots - it had a lucky beak.
Sorry it does matter. English is a wonderful language, in part due to its complexities and oddities. I don't want it to become Leftpondian or txt speak. Let's celebrate its diversity and quirks.
Often used in conjunction with Made-up Words like "functionality"
Functionality, functional character; in Math., the condition of being a function.
Often used in conjunction with Made-up Words like "functionality"
That one's actually in the OED.QuoteFunctionality, functional character; in Math., the condition of being a function.
Or, even better, made a unilateral decision to use cut speling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_Spelling) :D
Viva la difference!
...and the LSW is actually more striped than spotted....Indeed, because then, of course, it would be the lesser-spotted woodpecker - unless that was one that was just observed more infrequently ;)Which - as it happens - is true: it is quite a rare bird. My wife saw one once in our garden, but that was a lucky break. The Great Spotted Woodpecker, on the other hand, is fairly common.
It's the goddamn Oxford comma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma) I can't bear. Working for a USAian firm it pops up in all the literature I have to use. It's like a grammatical speed hump at the end of a list and is guaranteed to induce read rage. :sick:
Andrij - speaking as someone who has cycled alongside you a couple of times, I feel qualified in thinking of you as atypical when it comes to Merkins.
Not once did you use the word Leverage as a verb, even when the functionality of the gears on your bike was brought into question ;).
Upon arriving in theseblightedblessed Isles I was shocked and disgusted by the 'quality' of English. From people on the pavements to signs in shops to internationally-respected newspapers, the English language is butchered. I knew enough about the differences between the varieties of 'North American' English and 'British' English before arriving here. These don't qualify as butchery (though some may disagree). I mean spelling, punctuation and grammar.
Live and let live, I say. Viva la difference!
Frenchie: quel est ce mot 'shoking' dont tu parles? ;)
Frenchie: quel est ce mot 'shoking' dont tu parles? ;)
Damn! Can we have the spell checker please! :P :-[
Andrij - speaking as someone who has cycled alongside you a couple of times, I feel qualified in thinking of you as atypical when it comes to Merkins.
Not once did you use the word Leverage as a verb, even when the functionality of the gears on your bike was brought into question ;).
Just wait till he gets a puncture. Those tires will be leveraged before you can say "Rumsfeld". ;)
"We shall soon know gentlemen" roared the Major. There were women present but the Major made no distinctions.
Do not put a comma before and at the end of a sequence of items unless one of the items includes another and. Thus The doctor suggested an aspirin, half a grapefruit and a cup of broth. But he ordered scrambled eggs, whisky and soda, and a selection from the trolley.
I love this language of ours.There's a story - possibly apocryphal - about a professor of physics who wrote an advanced textbook on subatomic particles, intended for postgraduate students. He entitled it "Elementary Particle Physics". The publishers sent it back and advised him to change the title to "Physics of Elementary Particles" to avoid it being bought up by first-year undergraduates and sixthformers who would have found it too difficult.
This morning, I was writing a presentation ("Death by PowerPoint") about a computer product. One of the bullet points was
Simple User Interface
Then I realised that the above could be interpreted as "Interface to Simple Users"
D'oh!
Never use a preposition to end a sentence with.
Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
QuoteI suspect that standard "correct" modern English has many usages that would have been considered incorrect in our great-grandparents' time
Indeed. My 1926 edition of Fowler's 'Modern English Usage' is fascinating reading :)
My personal hate is the use of the plural form of verbs when the singular form is correct. For example "the Government have introduced legislation...", "the Company have a policy...", "the public take the view..." etc etc. One Government, one Company, one public FFS!I admit to that one, as I imagine them as a collection of people rather than a single sentient being.
My personal hate is the use of the plural form of verbs when the singular form is correct. For example "the Government have introduced legislation...", "the Company have a policy...", "the public take the view..." etc etc. One Government, one Company, one public FFS!I admit to that one, as I imagine them as a collection of people rather than a single sentient being.
Could someone explain that rule to me?Both may be correct. Grammatical rules can be and often are ambiguous.
I was always taught: The police are...
Could someone explain that rule to me?
I was always taught: The police are...
Could someone explain that rule to me?
I was always taught: The police are...
The others - government, company etc - are all singular and would take an s if plural. There's no such thing as polices.
Usually when you say "the police" you are using it as a collective noun for a bunch of people with blue uniforms and the right to arrest you, so "are" is correct. But it is an odd one also because it's not always used as an independent noun. You can't have one police, or even two police; you can have a police officer, some police officers or a police force, but it is the officers or force that determine whether you use "is" or "are".
Viva la difference!
That ain't English, mate!
On the other hand I'll stick to "One less car" because the alternative might be right, but it sounds and reads terribly.
I think you are trying too hard here. You would always say "the pair of them are going shopping", not "the pair is", although there is only one pair (and you can have several pairs).
There's a difference between collective and plural action. If I say "My team at work is doing a sponsored bike ride," that suggests a collective action enforced by management: I, as a member of the team, have no choice about being involved. If I say "My team at work are doing a sponsored bike ride," that suggests that the individuals in the team are jointly entered, but not that it's an action of the team as a whole---I might very well not take part.
I rather like the oxford comma - it makes the list read better in my head, and so I tend to use it.
On the other hand I'll stick to "One less car" because the alternative might be right, but it sounds and reads terribly.
"One car fewer" sounds fine to me.
Sorry it does matter. English is a wonderful language, in part due to its complexities and oddities. I don't want it to become Leftpondian or txt speak. Let's celebrate its diversity and quirks.
[fx: clears throat]
Having spent a considerable amount of time west of the Atlantic Ocean - where I believe lies this 'Leftpondia' of which you speak - I feel qualified to comment upon your remarks.
Rubbish!
Upon arriving in theseblightedblessed Isles I was shocked and disgusted by the 'quality' of English. From people on the pavements to signs in shops to internationally-respected newspapers, the English language is butchered. I knew enough about the differences between the varieties of 'North American' English and 'British' English before arriving here. These don't qualify as butchery (though some may disagree). I mean spelling, punctuation and grammar.
I would not be so foolish as to say that 'US' English is a better variant than 'UK', but in my experience the US locals seem to have a better grasp of their language. Don't quote the current US president or soundbites and 'vox pop' interviews - that can cut both ways.
I quite enjoy winding up the locals when I'm criticised for using 'American' words like Fall instead of Autumn. Do I need to point out which word is 'English' and which is 'foreign'?
There are times I would like to see more standardisation among the various varieties of English, but on the other hand I am not a supporter of American hegemony.
Live and let live, I say. Viva la difference!
Should be "fewer", innit... If it's a quantity of something like flour, it's less...
In Swedish they have a similar scheme for the word "More". They have Fler and Mer. You use Fler when you are referring to something countable or quantifiable, and Mer when unquantifiable e.g:I have very poor spoken grammear, Mrs W is always correcting me
I shall refrain from adding a missing full stop. Or substituting a colon or semicolon for the comma. ;D
I don't see a problem with "less", when referring to countable items. Indeed most other languages don't have separate words for "less" and "fewer". Remember also that the English language is ever changing with the times.
...Simple User Interface...He entitled it "Elementary Particle Physics".
Then I realised that the above could be interpreted as "Interface to Simple Users"
In comparisons, "such as" is inclusive and "like" is exclusive.
"I wish I had a bike like a Mercian or an Argos" means that I'd like a quality hand-built machine, but from a different brand.
"I wish I had a bike such as a Mercian or an Argos" means that they are two of the makes I am considering.
Live and let live, I say. Viva la difference!
I think you mean "Vive la difference!" ;)
In comparisons, "such as" is inclusive and "like" is exclusive.
Where do you get this from?
OK, I own up, that one is just the way I naturally read things. I may well have read it in Fowler, but I can't lay hands on my copy at present.It's not in Gower's second edition of Fowler. I can't lay hands on a copy of any other edition without going over to the other bookcase. ;)
Should be "fewer", innit... If it's a quantity of something like flour, it's less...
Should be such as :demon:
You would always say "the pair of them are going shopping", not "the pair is", although there is only one pair (and you can have several pairs).
There's a difference between collective and plural action.
Evidence found :)Your example is on a page which confuses "there" and "their", and cannot decide between a question and its answer: "Why the above sentence is wrong?". Do you really want to call it in evidence?
Here's an exposition of such as and like (http://gmat-grammar.blogspot.com/2006/06/like-vs-such-as.html) linked to the US business-school "Graduate Management Admission Test (http://www.gmac.com/gmac/thegmat/gmatbasics/)".
There's a pet hate of mine in one of the Avatars on this thread. "Weather conditions". A tautology.
I rather like the oxford comma - it makes the list read better in my head, and so I tend to use it.
Except where used to aid clarity as illustrated by Frenchie and Jezza above, it's irrational. Lists are built from right to left:
red
yellow and red
blue, yellow and red
Why would you suddenly put a comma after yellow in the last example but not in the second?
Personal pet hate (but highly debatable in terms of actual usage over many years): "different to" or "different than".
The roots of the word "different" are in the Latin "carry apart". "Carry apart to" is an oxymoron, and "carry apart than" just doesn't make sense at all, so anything but "different from" clashes in the mind.
Discuss...
I was recently praised (by an older man) for using the word 'fewer'. Does it truly matter, tho? Failure to make the distinction doesn't obscure meaning, it can't be used to deceive. It's not the sort of thing that Orwell would cite, were we to resurrect him and have him write a noughties 'Politics and the English Language'.
I prefer to read "Your a muppet" on forums. As wrong as it is, it sounds cooler and is more insulting, IMO.The canonical b3ta flame is "your all gay", which spawned its own website.
My partner's Ealing Polling card claimed that the polling station had a 'disabled entrance'. So how could the voters get inside to vote?Probably through "this door (which) is alarmed". As opposed to that one over there, which is terrified.
So the argument is that if we say "A is similar to B", we should say "B is different to C".
An equally good argument is that different is the opposite of similar, and from is the opposite of to, so if "similar to" is correct then "different from" would be correct.
So the argument is that if we say "A is similar to B", we should say "B is different to C".
An equally good argument is that different is the opposite of similar, and from is the opposite of to, so if "similar to" is correct then "different from" would be correct.
IMHO the first argument fails because of the sense of movement in "different". The two are diversifying, or diversified, from each other. You can't move apart and towards each other at the same time.
If you tried to extend it, you'd have to conclude that because "A is joined with B" then "C is separated with D".
But A is not joined with B, it's joined to B!
I was recently praised (by an older man) for using the word 'fewer'. Does it truly matter, tho? Failure to make the distinction doesn't obscure meaning, it can't be used to deceive. It's not the sort of thing that Orwell would cite, were we to resurrect him and have him write a noughties 'Politics and the English Language'.
The Government wanted to employ less civil servants...
OR
The Government wanted to employ fewer civil servants...
One that bugs the inner physicist is "quantum leap"used to describe a big/fundamental change
Please enlighten me - when should one use "them" instead of "those".
Kate Bush referred to "Them heavy people" which sounds wrong, though in fairness Girls Aloud didn't "need no good advice" did they?
Q
By definition, a quantum leap is surely the smallest advance possible
what is the opposite of flamable?
and why does flamable and inflamable mean the same?
what is the opposite of flamable?
what is the opposite of flamable?
and why does flamable and inflamable mean the same?
This weekends horrible word courtesy of Clyde coastguard Gun and Subfacts broadcasts
Deconfliction
I think I know what it means but I'd never heard anyone say it before.
what is the opposite of flamable?
and why does flamable and inflamable mean the same?
Strictly, a semi-colon should be used in your examples ...
Strangely I've readily adapted to the use of Euro (singular) in place of Euros (plural) when saying "10 Euro" and now the use of the plural sounds odd to my ears.
what is the opposite of flamable?
and why does flamable and inflamable mean the same?
Strangely I've readily adapted to the use of Euro (singular) in place of Euros (plural) when saying "10 Euro" and now the use of the plural sounds odd to my ears.
Is that the counterpoint of, "That'll be one pence, please."
Is this a grammar thread or an idiom thread? :demon:
One pence has made me cringe for the last 37.245 years.I think I'd be delighted to learn that some item cost just "one penny", or "one pence", or "1p", or whatever... ;) Seeing as you can scarce get on a bus these days without taking out a mortgage....
It never seemed to happen before decimalisation.
I rather like the optional rule that, for most wild animals (especially game animals) there is no separate plural.And of course a mob of euro. Though I don't think anyone actually hunts Macropus robustus, and my marsupial books call them, en masse, euros.
"A herd of wildebeest"
"A school of fish"
"There are lion on these plains"
Is this a grammar thread or an idiom thread? :demon:
No, I think it's a pedant-who-subscribes-to-one-prescriptive-grammar thread.
One pence has made me cringe for the last 37.245 years.I think I'd be delighted to learn that some item cost just "one penny", or "one pence", or "1p", or whatever... ;) Seeing as you can scarce get on a bus these days without taking out a mortgage...
It never seemed to happen before decimalisation.
*And now a poser for our younger listeners - what was the correct pronunciation of "threepenny"?
what is the opposite of flamable?
and why does flamable and inflamable mean the same?
It's lucky this isn't a "spelling that makes you cringe" thread ;)
*And now a poser for our younger listeners - what was the correct pronunciation of "threepenny"?
:thumbsup: I just wondered if anyone didn't know....
*And now a poser for our younger listeners - what was the correct pronunciation of "threepenny"?
Thrupny?
I'm old enough to have been very irritated when I first saw the word "flammable".Probably influenced by the fact that the word is prominently emblazoned across the back of the truck in the film Duel.
whereas the French would say "cinq Franc" and the Germans "funf Mark"Maybe, but I think the French would be written "cinq Francs" but of course the 's' is silent, so it would sound like what you wrote. As for the German, I think the plural of "Mark" is just "Mark", as with many German words which have no distinct plural ending.
But actually the usage of not pluralising units of currency is defensible and regular
I'm old enough to have been very irritated when I first saw the word "flammable".Probably influenced by the fact that the word is prominently emblazoned across the back of the truck in the film Duel.
I'm old enough to have been very irritated when I first saw the word "flammable".Probably influenced by the fact that the word is prominently emblazoned across the back of the truck in the film Duel.
I reckon I first noticed it in the mid 1960s. "Duel" was made in 1971.
I've started documenting the bits of bad grammar I see (yes, yes, I know, my anorak is just over there...)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2492019766_5a8e13d1c8.jpg?v=0)
You should go into the shop and enquire (as the sign say's) "iPod's what?"Ahem.
I've started documenting the bits of bad grammar I see (yes, yes, I know, my anorak is just over there...)
In India for example the people I have worked with follow, speak and spell the American English way.The people I work with, and everyone I speak to, in India, uses Indian English. It's definitely neither British nor American in grammar, syntax, vocabulary (obviously), or spelling. Nor in pragmatics come to that. However, most of the spelling used in official sources (government publications etc) is more British than American.
The CTC sent me some junk mail yesterday telling me I could get my first three month's insurance free :DVeering OT
[uber-pedant]
Technically, "Rank for 2 Taxi's" could be treated as correct. The apostrophe indicates missing letters, because the sign is not big enough for
"Rank for 2 Taxicabs"
[/uber-pedant]
How do we find out if the sign-writer was thinking that when he wrote it? Or if he just thought "Oh - plural ending in a vowel, must put squiggle in!"?
One thing I've noticed increasing markedly is people using brought as if it were the past participle of to buy. What's that about?Not enough bring and buy sales any more! Or are they bling and bry?
As my A level English student daughter delights in telling me whenever I correct her garmmar:
English is a living breathing language, in a constant state of evolution. What is correct usage now, was not previously, and what is not now, will be in the future. The process of "Regularisation" (through which exceptions to grammatical rules will be eliminated) will continue, and popular usage will become "correct" usage.
As my A level English student daughter delights in telling me whenever I correct her garmmar:
...due to popular usage initiated on line.
And when you correct spelling her? ;D
But drossal - most of the 'rules' were pretty arbtirary decisions by the eighteenth century grammarians who favoured etymology and consistent word order over commonly understood usage and communication."commonly understood usage" ?
Hmm. My experience seems similar to Drossall; breaking the rules generally makes things _harder_ to understand. Having 10 ways to spell 'bought' doesn't help anyone.
"Could of" ?
"Wich you" ?
Common perhaps, but not easily understood.
My pet hate...
the "10 items or less" signs in my local Sainsbury's. >:(
I've been known to carry a marker pen around and correct them... ;D
M&S and Waitrose both use 'fewer'. Shop at either of these and save on marker pens.
Good grammar places good words in a setting that helps them shine and sparkle like fine crystal and lifts ideas from the page. Most of what's written deserves to stay stuck to the page, out of harms way. I dedicate this sentiment to all those marking scripts in the fine weather, when they should be out on the bike, as I will be today.
Damon.
Good grammar places good words in a setting that helps them shine and sparkle like fine crystal and lifts ideas from the page. Most of what's written deserves to stay stuck to the page, out of harms way.Oh I say, well put sir :)
Good grammar places good words in a setting that helps them shine and sparkle like fine crystal and lifts ideas from the page. Most of what's written deserves to stay stuck to the page, out of harms way. I dedicate this sentiment to all those marking scripts in the fine weather, when they should be out on the bike, as I will be today.;D
Damon.
Good grammar places good words in a setting that helps them shine and sparkle like fine crystal and lifts ideas from the page. Most of what's written deserves to stay stuck to the page, out of harms way. I dedicate this sentiment to all those marking scripts in the fine weather, when they should be out on the bike, as I will be today.;D
Damon.
Poor grammar and spelling, whether intentional or not, are like CAPITAL LETTERS. They slow down comprehension. Caveat Scriptor.
There's a subtle difference between breaking the rules and making mistakes.
Breaking the rules v. mistakes: that is why I like phrases such as, "That made oi laugh," and, "I's 'appy, I is," but dislike, "Help me loose weight," and, "You should of peddled up that hill."
Breaking the rules v. mistakes: that is why I like phrases such as, "That made oi laugh," and, "I's 'appy, I is," but dislike, "Help me loose weight," and, "You should of peddled up that hill."
That's punctuation, the apostrophe is an example of mutation, the pivotal problem there is the difference between 'it's', i.e. 'it is' and 'its', the possessive. It's difficult to predict how this problem will meet its resolution.Good grammar places good words in a setting that helps them shine and sparkle like fine crystal and lifts ideas from the page. Most of what's written deserves to stay stuck to the page, out of harms way. I dedicate this sentiment to all those marking scripts in the fine weather, when they should be out on the bike, as I will be today.;D
Damon.
"commonly understood usage" ?
Hmm. My experience seems similar to Drossall; breaking the rules generally makes things _harder_ to understand. Having 10 ways to spell 'bought' doesn't help anyone.
That's only because you're at the fag-end of an educational system which has (often literally) beaten in an entirely constructed and elitist 'correctness' to generations of kids. It is the same mentality that regards Scots or Geordie as 'wrong' (rather than 'wrang' ;) ) and thinks there is something good about 'received pronouciation' (as it that which is received in polite society - in other words, amongst snobs).
Diversity promotes vigour in language and unity promotes understanding.
Idiomatic speech has its Shibboleths to weed out the interloper and written language acheives the same through grammar.
Increasingly there is a schism between those who write as they speak and those who speak as they read and write. I do have thoughts which are ungrammatical, I call them feelings, and it's rude to burden folk with emotions which are not resolved enough to be correctly parsed.
Well, I have to admit that, despite using my own mother tongue, you have written something there that I do not understand at all. Explain yourself sir!... and unity promotes understanding.
That's a nice slogan but philosophically not robust at all! There is no necessary reason why we would all understand each other perfectly if we all spoke exactly the same way. It might create the superficial impression that we should, but that is a different thing.
"You and I" when it should be "you and me".
The creation of 'correct grammar' may well be designed to exclude and control - that has indeed been my argument. But not grammar in general - that is simply an emergent property of language.
"You and I" when it should be "you and me". Also see "He & I" in place of "him & me", etc.
"You and I" when it should be "you and me". Also see "He & I" in place of "him & me", etc.
Why does this actually matter? I mean, really? This is a perfect example of an obsession with 'correctness' over communication. There is no confusion of meaning here.
"Bad grammar makes I cringe"?
"Bad grammar makes you and I cringe".. is an example of the meaning being totally mangled by using "I" rather than "me". It's a perfectly acceptable sentence, with two verbs, joined with the conjunction "and".
I.e. "Bad grammar makes you, and I cringe"
But it doesn't mean what was intended.
While I'm in pedant mode, I remember a nice illustration of why punctuation really matters (sometimes):;) :thumbsup:
Don't stop.
or
Don't, stop.
All the same to you? ;)
What smutchin said. The error is almost always a deliberate choice, rather than a simple mistake. What really winds me up about the misuse of "you & I" in place of "you & me" is that the people saying it think they're avoiding a lower-class error, but are substituting a different - and to my mind, worse - one. It's one of the many cases of effort put into doing something which would be better not done."You and I" when it should be "you and me". Also see "He & I" in place of "him & me", etc.
Why does this actually matter? I mean, really? This is a perfect example of an obsession with 'correctness' over communication. There is no confusion of meaning here.
"You and I" when it should be "you and me".
Ooh! That one really winds me up. You could argue that the error rarely leads to ambiguity and is therefore excusable, but what irks me about it is that there seems to be a widespread but misguided notion that "You and me" is always wrong, so people deliberately and consciously use "You and I" even when it is incorrect, thereby demonstrating that they haven't got a fucking clue about the simple grammatical rule behind it.
Dangling participles are another of my pet hates, although they can be unintentionally amusing.
d.
I'm sorry Smutchin but you seriously need to loosen up about this.
Who gives a shit? We all know what they mean and it's snobbish to pretend, or care, otherwise.
What really winds me up about the misuse of "you & I" in place of "you & me" is that the people saying it think they're avoiding a lower-class error, but are substituting a different - and to my mind, worse - one.I think you're being a bit harsh here. Two reasons:
One in ten people in Europe is drinking themselves to death
"You and I" when it should be "you and me". Also see "He & I" in place of "him & me", etc.
Why does this actually matter? I mean, really? This is a perfect example of an obsession with 'correctness' over communication. There is no confusion of meaning here.
Well, it depends what you mean by actually matter, I suppose. It may not actually matter to say something like, "Bad grammar makes you and I cringe", but would you say "Bad grammar makes I cringe"?
While I'm in pedant mode, I remember a nice illustration of why punctuation really matters (sometimes):
Don't stop.
or
Don't, stop.
All the same to you? ;)
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation.So why do you choose to write 99% of your posts in this artificial and arbitrary fashion? Are you just showing off?
Even the Beeb is failing on this these days.
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation.So why do you choose to write 99% of your posts in this artificial and arbitrary fashion? Are you just showing off?
So why do you choose to write 99% of your posts in this artificial and arbitrary fashion? Are you just showing off?
'Less' and 'fewer'... my personal bugbear.
Even the Beeb is failing on this these days. Only Evan Davies seems to understand the difference.
I suspect FM is taking an extreme position for the sake of making a point. Grammar does matter up to a point but it's silly to be pedantic about the details, because they are just arbitrary rules and it's the underlying meaning that matters. If your meaning is clear, a misplaced apostrophe or two really isn't important.
'Less' and 'fewer'... my personal bugbear.
Even the Beeb is failing on this these days. Only Evan Davies seems to understand the difference.
But most of that is impromptu speech such as in live interviews. It's much more difficult to be grammatically correct when you're speaking on the hoof.
The whole 'cringing' thing is interesting because it shows how much we are still under the thumb of those rigid and dried up old schoolmasters whether we like it or not!
Is there any need to be so offensive?Didn't mean to be ...
The answer is obvious - I was brought up in the same tradition. But I am aware of it. And I am interested in the subject. And I do not try to impose my way of expressing myself on anyone else.... I thought part of the subject was Why Do We Speak/Write The Way We Do. You've made various statements on the choices made by others, so I thought this was a relevant question. Mkay?
Thanks for your interest in me, now let's get back to the subject eh?
... I thought part of the subject was Why Do We Speak/Write The Way We Do. You've made various statements on the choices made by others, so I thought this was a relevant question. Mkay?
From this morning's MetroQuoteOne in ten people in Europe is drinking themselves to death
::-)
...Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way languages evolve and change....Naah - it's a lot more complicated than that. While you're right that old (though not all 18th century: it started before that) grammarians are guilty of a great deal, it's not all down to them. Fer a start, lotsa wot they thought was proper we now think wrong, both in spelling (we're far, far more rigid than they were) & in usage, where we say & write things they would have thrown up their hands in horror at, while rejecting as incorrect usages they considered correct. The language has changed, & our perceptions with it.
Naah - it's a lot more complicated than that. While you're right that old (though not all 18th century: it started before that) grammarians are guilty of a great deal, it's not all down to them. Fer a start, lotsa wot they thought was proper we now think wrong, both in spelling (we're far, far more rigid than they were) & in usage, where we say & write things they would have thrown up their hands in horror at, while rejecting as incorrect usages they considered correct. The language has changed, & our perceptions with it.
...the only concerns I have relate to miscommunication, and ... these situations can be easily remedied by further discussion...
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way languages evolve and change.
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way languages evolve and change.
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way languages evolve and change.
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' in football is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C19th officials who were trying to 'fix' the game in place and get rid of random and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way games evolve and change.
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' in football is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C19th officials who were trying to 'fix' the game in place and get rid of random and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way games evolve and change.
They would hardly recognise it now. Works better to have rules at any one point though... :demon:
When did the written word start taking a much bigger part on our world? Could it have been in the 18th Century and could that be the main reason for favouring "etymology and consistent word order over commonly understood usage"?Probably earlier - in the 16th century, as a result of the move from Catholicism to Protestantism. This placed a greater emphasis on interpreting the word (or even the Word) and less on the visual and ritual. Indeed, it rejected much of that as idolatry, so instead of draping statues of saints with offerings we were encouraged to listen to long sermons and read the Bible.
"Barcelona are very keen either to re-sign Eto'o or to sell him to another club".At least they didn't split the infinitive ;D
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way languages evolve and change.
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' in football is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C19th officials who were trying to 'fix' the game in place and get rid of random and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way games evolve and change.
They would hardly recognise it now. Works better to have rules at any one point though... :demon:
Twenty20 could be accused of being poor grammar: tautology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)).
Association fallacy alert! ;)
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' English is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C18th grammarians who were trying to 'fix' the language in place and get rid of class and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way languages evolve and change.
Let's get this straight, most of what is seen as 'correct' in football is simply an imposed and artificial set of rather arbitrary rules imposed by a very small, self-selecting group of C19th officials who were trying to 'fix' the game in place and get rid of random and regional variation. They utterly misunderstood the way games evolve and change.
They would hardly recognise it now. Works better to have rules at any one point though... :demon:
Association fallacy alert! ;)
Twenty20 could be accused of being poor grammar: tautology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)).
Not grammar, but I have noticed that even within these hallowed portals there is a trend of spelling the word 'lose' as 'loose'. Please make it stop.
Is there any harm in trying to do something the right way? ;)
Not grammar, but I have noticed that even within these hallowed portals there is a trend of spelling the word 'lose' as 'loose'. Please make it stop.
The rules do not reflect conversational English, the type of English used by many on this forum.Yes they do. Most of us deviate from the rules to some extent much of the time,but most of our words, and many of our sentences, stick to the rules.
The rules do not reflect conversational English, the type of English used by many on this forum.Yes they do. Most of us deviate from the rules to some extent much of the time,but most of our words, and many of our sentences, stick to the rules.
If we didn't you would have gibberish.
I agree with the posters who've mentioned the diversity of spoken English and the space for people to express themselves and play with the rules, but isn't all that a different thing from people who just can't be bothered to put sentences together properly ?
Though that argument doesn't hold up against the evolution of language one, I suppose.
Not grammar, but I have noticed that even within these hallowed portals there is a trend of spelling the word 'lose' as 'loose'. Please make it stop.
"I'm going to have a row with my wife!"
Association fallacy alert! ;)
I take it that that means that you don't agree?
The rules do not reflect conversational English, the type of English used by many on this forum.Yes they do. Most of us deviate from the rules to some extent much of the time,but most of our words, and many of our sentences, stick to the rules.
If we didn't you would have gibberish.
...If we didn't you would have gibberish.
I'd suggest that the codification of language followed on from the spoken word and thus it is the codification which is limited in structure rather than the spoken word.
...If we didn't you would have gibberish.
I'd suggest that the codification of language followed on from the spoken word and thus it is the codification which is limited in structure rather than the spoken word.
Perfect example!
I'd suggest that the codification of language followed on from the spoken word, and thus it is the codification which is limited in structure rather than the spoken word.
Even the BBC website regularly uses loose for lose and lead when they mean led.I have no evidence, but I'm pretty sure spellcheckers are to blame for this.
Things like that won't be picked up by spellcheckers and they even follow spelling rules, just the wrong ones.
So we've got a choice between ...
So we've got a choice between ...
Ooh, ooh, there's another one!
I would prefer
"So we have a choice between ... "
;)
Twenty20 could be accused of being poor grammar: tautology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)).
An example of true tautology would be a two-wheeled bicycle. Change one element of that and you get an oxymoron, such as a three-wheeled bicycle or a two-wheeled trike. By contrast a Twenty or a Twenty30 would be not so much oxymoron as one-sided match :D
a Twenty30 would be not so much oxymoron as one-sided match :D
Fair cop!So we've got a choice between ...
Ooh, ooh, there's another one!
I would prefer
"So we have a choice between ... "
;)
Isn't "there's another one" tautological? Since "there's" (there is) is singular? So you could say "There's another."
a Twenty30 would be not so much oxymoron as one-sided match :D
...or something to do with the Duckworth Lewis method.
d.
Actually the 'got' thing has gotten out of hand.
Actually the 'got' thing has gotten out of hand.
And there's one of my pet-hates: The past tense of 'got' is 'got' :demon:
;D
Sometimes one's posts can be _too_ subtle ... ;)Actually the 'got' thing has gotten out of hand.
And there's one of my pet-hates: The past tense of 'got' is 'got' :demon:
;D
Actually the 'got' thing has gotten out of hand.
And there's one of my pet-hates: The past tense of 'got' is 'got' :demon:
;D
If you take it a bit further back, it's arguably the USians who are correct on this one. "Gotten" is an archaic past participle of "get", and we Brits could be said to have corrupted the language in our dropping of it...
If you take it a bit further back, it's arguably the USians who are correct on this one. "Gotten" is an archaic past participle of "get", and we Brits could be said to have corrupted the language in our dropping of it...
You tried to make an association with something that appears superficially similar but in fact has nothing to do with what we were talking about.Not an association. Simply an application of the same line of argument to an unrelated area, to see whether it made sense there. If it didn't, there could be a problem with the line of argument.
Not that archaic. It is still present in other words... e.g. forgotten, begotten. :demon:And ill-gotten gains.
...the past of "fit" is "fat". :)
People who say "o" instead of "zero" to represent the figure 0.
Number.
Not a letter. >:(
People who say "o" instead of "zero" to represent the figure 0.
Number.
Not a letter. >:(
People who say "o" instead of "zero" to represent the figure 0.
Number.
Not a letter. >:(
I love some changes: like when young people use "aks" instead of "ask."When you reach 80 and all your teeth have gone I am sure you will be able to old chap.
It sounds really cool and I wish I could do it naturally.
...one of R4's Today program chaps insists on telling me that it is "Huff past seven".
Don't know why it annoys me, but it does.
I love some changes: like when young people use "aks" instead of "ask."When you reach 80 and all your teeth have gone I am sure you will be able to old chap.
It sounds really cool and I wish I could do it naturally.
Burglarized.
Monetized.
On the train, every night, different staff, same phrase:
Anyone dining for dinner this evening?
Plus:
... in the vistibbles at the end of each carriage
... please hesitate to ask.
"We controlled at the petrol station on the outskirts of Wibbletown."
It just makes me cringe for some reason.
"Controlled" used as a verb with respect to Audaxes, as in:-
"We controlled at the petrol station on the outskirts of Wibbletown."
"Controlled" used as a verb with respect to Audaxes, as in:-
"We controlled at the petrol station on the outskirts of Wibbletown."
When such "speak" is creeping into the Audax world, there can be no hope. :-\
I winced when I heard a BBC sports reporter saying that 'Britain has four medals in the pool'. Eh?But not as bad as "four Brits have medalled". :sick:
I winced when I heard a BBC sports reporter saying that 'Britain has four medals in the pool'. Eh?But not as bad as "four Brits have medalled". :sick:
And on that subject: "Dug deep".
I winced when I heard a BBC sports reporter saying that 'Britain has four medals in the pool'. Eh?But not as bad as "four Brits have medalled". :sick:
I hate it when people use the word "issue" instead of "problem"
I hate it when people use the word "issue" instead of "problem"
A problem is something that needs to be solved or fixed, by saying that there is a problem though you quite rightly indicate that something has gone wrong, which in the end is something a good manager should hold up his or her hand up to. Sadly they don't so the weasle word "issue" is used instead.
I hate it when people use the word "issue" instead of "problem"
Like wise "software bug" instead of a FAULT.
Ha!I winced when I heard a BBC sports reporter saying that 'Britain has four medals in the pool'. Eh?But not as bad as "four Brits have medalled". :sick:
I'll see your "medalled" and raise you a "I hope to podium in $EVENT"
If it hadn't been Victoria Pendleton who said it, I might have found myself re-inventing the instep borer.
What does he know? Edison's biggest problem was when there wasn't a proper inventor around to plagiarise ;)"Working out the bugs" = "Fighting a patent court case"
And two awful words, prolly and bawked.
They make me cringe so much that I ignore all the following threads
And two awful words, prolly and bawked.
They make me cringe so much that I ignore all the following threads
It's asherly "b0rked", which has a reasonable etymology, like "teh internets"
No, I meant bOrked.
I have only seen it used on YACF even though I am a Member of three other English speaking Forums.
No, I meant bOrked.
I have only seen it used on YACF even though I am a Member of three other English speaking Forums.
You need to get out more. A quick google should show you how prevalent its use is.
<SNIP>
It's even a supported "language" on google: http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/ (http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/)
Stephen Fry explores the highways and byways of the English language.
Stephen examines how 'wrong' English can become right English. For example, nowadays, more people use the word 'wireless' in a computer context than in a radio one. With help from a lexicographer, an educationalist, a Times sub-editor and a judge, Stephen examines the way in which usage changes language.
He applauds the council leader who claimed the services provided by her local authority should be seen as strawberry-flavoured and castigates attempts at banning government jargon like step change and synergie. Banning words is fruitless; he favours blue sky thinking, and strawberry flavouring.
New recruits at our place are now subject to "onboarding" :sick:
D'you think it's anything like waterboarding?
Re control/medal, may I remind you all of the useful axiom:As Calvin said, verbing weirds words.
There isn't a noun that can't be verbed.
But I'd really like to reach out and engage around the key learnings and takeaways of this thread...
I hate misuse of its and it's.
That filthy Americanism"Look, I've been harvesting all day and I'm tired, OK? You do the math."
"Do the math"
Bloody colonials.
New recruits at our place are now subject to "onboarding" :sick:
D'you think it's anything like waterboarding?
Tue 11 Aug 2009 09:00 BBC Radio 4Bloody Trefusis. Donald always was a provocative git, & his alter ego also likes stirring just for the fun of it.
Fry's English Delight (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lv1k1)QuoteStephen Fry explores the highways and byways of the English language.
Stephen examines how 'wrong' English can become right English. For example, nowadays, more people use the word 'wireless' in a computer context than in a radio one. With help from a lexicographer, an educationalist, a Times sub-editor and a judge, Stephen examines the way in which usage changes language.
He applauds the council leader who claimed the services provided by her local authority should be seen as strawberry-flavoured and castigates attempts at banning government jargon like step change and synergie. Banning words is fruitless; he favours blue sky thinking, and strawberry flavouring.
Bloody Trefusis. Donald always was a provocative git, & his alter ego also likes stirring just for the fun of it.
...I will say, though, that commas are not hundreds-and-thousands, used for decorative purposes.
But he makes an important point. Not all neologisms are necessarily A Bad Thing. Many of the complaints in this thread just sound reactionary for the sake of it.
d.
Not all neologisms are created equal. We have a right to throw out the bad!Bloody Trefusis. Donald always was a provocative git, & his alter ego also likes stirring just for the fun of it.
But he makes an important point. Not all neologisms are necessarily A Bad Thing. Many of the complaints in this thread just sound reactionary for the sake of it.
d.
But I'd really like to reach out and engage around the key learnings and takeaways of this thread...
But I'd really like to reach out and engage around the key learnings and takeaways of this thread...
Perhaps if we sit down together, I can leverage some of your competency and together, we can really grow some fresh value and monetize our collaborative output?
The Business League is looking for you to build the Business League know how into new clubs and become Chairpersons of new branches of our well-proven Business Networking and Support Club and its great ethos to parts of the South and South West of England
You would be responsible for the formation and initial well being of new clubs and its members using a well established format and gaining good support from The Business League Head Office and Area Manager in the region.
Tautologies definitely count.
When people refer to "ATM machines", I get all stabby.
So, shall we traffic-light that principle?
how about an all-hands to deep-dive and bake that in; do you have the bandwidth?
Could we interlock brain spaces in my work area?
First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds language1. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because I no verbs.
So, Reg, I'm sensing some pushback. Can we sync-up offline to engage around the ten-thousand foot view?
Tautologies definitely count.So "The Algarve" is a no-no, then. ;)
"Planning ahead" makes me twitch.
When people refer to "ATM machines", I get all stabby.
What about the River Ouseburn, or Pendle Hill, which are doubly tautological?
But he makes an important point. Not all neologisms are necessarily A Bad Thing. Many of the complaints in this thread just sound reactionary for the sake of it.Bah. What's wrong with proto-Indo-European?
d.
What about the River Ouseburn, or Pendle Hill, which are doubly tautological?
Only one tautology each, I'm afraid.
Interestingly, all these words derive from the one for 'river':
Ouse
Aire
Wharfe
and, apparently, Stour.
Or Mount Fuji... or the River Ouse, or Lake Tanganyika?
LCD display
sufficiently adequate
new innovation
in this day and age
Significant milestone
close proximity
Aghhhhhh!!!!!!
What about the River Ouseburn, or Pendle Hill, which are doubly tautological?
LCD display
sufficiently adequate
new innovation
in this day and age
Significant milestone
close proximity
Aghhhhhh!!!!!!
D
And, while it isn't tautology, "Baby-changing room," just doesn't sound right. What would I want to change my baby for? Should it not be a nappy-changing room?
D
And, while it isn't tautology, "Baby-changing room," just doesn't sound right. What would I want to change my baby for? Should it not be a nappy-changing room?
It's not baby-changing room, it's baby changing-room.
I can't read this thread any more. It's worse than Dan Brown.
Mount Fuji? Mrs B doesn't think so.What about the River Ouseburn, or Pendle Hill, which are doubly tautological?
Or Mount Fuji... or the River Ouse, or Lake Tanganyika?
Mount Fuji? Mrs B doesn't think so.What about the River Ouseburn, or Pendle Hill, which are doubly tautological?
Or Mount Fuji... or the River Ouse, or Lake Tanganyika?
Too much of this is a bad thing.
Vehicle Continuously Stopping
Can't you see that you are blind?
Can't you see that you are blind?
P1ss off!
;)
If it was aimed at you, I'd have said something like, "Remember,you're a womblethat your memory is real bad."
But I didn't because I'm good. O:-)
...US military sources can become intelligent ...
...US military sources can become intelligent ...
Although they have shown no sign of it whatsoever....
...US military sources can become intelligent ...
Although they have shown no sign of it whatsoever....
Same goes for the British military of course.
Roadrunner's complaint is wrong, since intelligence is also news or information.
Actually, news or information is exactly that - news or information. Intelligence is the assessment of that news or information.
Therefore, road-runner is correct.
Actually, news or information is exactly that - news or information. Intelligence is the assessment of that news or information.
Therefore, road-runner is correct.
Not according to the OED. It's an old use of the word that's coming back into use.
Actually, news or information is exactly that - news or information. Intelligence is the assessment of that news or information.
Therefore, road-runner is correct.
Not according to the OED. It's an old use of the word that's coming back into use.
Care to give the full definition from the OED? ;)
Since it's regularly used as such, why bother arguing the point, Reg? Does it hurt so much to be wrong once in a while?
why bother arguing the point, Reg?
why bother arguing the point, Reg?
It's one of his preferred forms of intercourse; and who are we to judge?
Just like when people say 'less' instead of 'fewer'.
Just like when people say 'less' instead of 'fewer'.
If it upsets people enough to make them carry 'marker pens' into supermarkets, then I'm all for it. ;D
Just like when people say 'less' instead of 'fewer'.
If it upsets people enough to make them carry 'marker pens' into supermarkets, then I'm all for it. ;D
I have been know to amend offending supermarket signs.
Just like when people say 'less' instead of 'fewer'.
If it upsets people enough to make them carry 'marker pens' into supermarkets, then I'm all for it. ;D
I have been know to amend offending supermarket signs.
I believe that Shakespeare uses the transitive verb intelligence, as in 'He intelligenced me that...' for informing, but I can't remember where it was.
Good luck in finding the source. I suspect it ain't easily goooooglable :-\
Good luck in finding the source. I suspect it ain't easily goooooglable :-\
I have been know to amend offending supermarket signs.
Them cats that get photos of themselves and put words with it. Their grammar's real bad.(http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/lolcat-i-question-the-general-assumption-that-feli1.jpg)
I Can Has Cheezburger? (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/06/09/funny-pictures-fur-disneyworld/)
(many from the forum)
Use of the verb "peddle" where the correct usage is "pedal". Particularly in the red-top newspapers.
The latest free edition of my local paper has "masterbate", "infact", & "joint collaboration".
That would have been impressive!The latest free edition of my local paper has "masterbate", "infact", & "joint collaboration".
In the same sentence ?
The latest free edition of my local paper has "masterbate", "infact", & "joint collaboration".Does Razzle pass for a local paper now?
I despair.
THe omission of the word "against" after the verbs "to protest" and "to appeal".... at which time, they may well be
I don't protest climate change, I protest against its causes.
People don't appeal a verdict, they appeal against a verdict.
THe omission of the word "against" after the verbs "to protest" and "to appeal".... at which time, they may well be
I don't protest climate change, I protest against its causes.
People don't appeal a verdict, they appeal against a verdict.
protesting their innocence !
• verb 1 express an objection to what someone has said or done. 2 take part in a public protest. 3 state emphatically in response to an accusation or criticism: she protested her innocence.
That's interesting* - I mentioned that usage because I thought it was correct, but I didn't realise thatYou can also protest your faith. I keep double-taking at headlines like NEONAZIS PROTEST ISLAM.
innocence
is the only thing you can protest (directly).
* d'ya see what I did there?
Ban generic plurals!
A great piece in the language log blog today:
Language Log - Mandatory treatment for generic plurals? (http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1737)
Americans.... (http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/2009/09/22_misspelled_p.html)
...I didn't realise that innocenceis the only thing you can protest (directly).
In tonight's Waking The Dead, Dr Grace Foley referred to a suspect's extreme "aquaphobia".You'll have watched that on the teleopsis, then. Or was it the proculvision?
Any fule kno that "aqua" is from Latin and "phobia" is from Greek.
The word she was looking for is hydrophobia.
In tonight's Waking The Dead, Dr Grace Foley referred to a suspect's extreme "aquaphobia".
Any fule kno that "aqua" is from Latin and "phobia" is from Greek.
The word she was looking for is hydrophobia.
I feel a stiff letter to The Times coming on.
d.
UNIX geeks. ::-)
Any fule kno that "aqua" is from Latin and "phobia" is from Greek.
You'll have watched that on the teleopsis, then. Or was it the proculvision?
You'll have watched that on the teleopsis, then. Or was it the proculvision?Farseer. Or is that the tube with lenses in?
In tonight's Waking The Dead, Dr Grace Foley referred to a suspect's extreme "aquaphobia".Perhaps chosen so as not to confuse it with hydrophobia--rabies?
Any fule kno that "aqua" is from Latin and "phobia" is from Greek.
The word she was looking for is hydrophobia.
I feel a stiff letter to The Times coming on.
d.
Perhaps chosen so as not to confuse it with hydrophobia--rabies?
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves, &c.
'Tis capitalised indeed.Quote'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves, &c.
Perhaps chosen so as not to confuse it with hydrophobia--rabies?
It's a useful distinction, I suppose, but the mixed Latin and Greek still grates. I admit I've never had a problem with "television" but that's because it's a word I grew up with and was familiar with before I knew much about Latin and Greek. But now that it has been brought to my attention, I am mildly irritated by it.
d.
I notice an increasing appearance of elisive apostrophes in printed English, particularly can't, or won't. In my schooldays I was taught that this was entirely incorrect except in reported speech.Do you mean that one should write "cannot" ? Or something too smart for me?!?
I notice an increasing appearance of elisive apostrophes in printed English, particularly can't, or won't. In my schooldays I was taught that this was entirely incorrect except in reported speech.Do you mean that one should write "cannot" ? Or something too smart for me?!?
[I shall lookup 'elisive' ... ]I made it up.
According to google, you've started a trend.Quote[I shall lookup 'elisive' ... ]I made it up.
The one that riles me at present is the use of "I am" in examples such as "I am liking this forum". So, you like it now but you didn't yesterday and will not tomorrow. This one started less than a year ago. I wonder how long before it fades into yesterdays outmoded trendy speak, but I also wonder how on earth these things get started.Surely this is just an attempt to reflect in writing the use of emphatic particles in speech. I am liking this forum - surprisingly so, in fact.
I notice an increasing appearance of elisive apostrophes in printed English, particularly can't, or won't. In my schooldays I was taught that this was entirely incorrect except in reported speech.
Ugly they may be but they are preferable to should of (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21548.msg384951#msg384951) and would of (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22017.msg394471#msg394471).
some elisions are really ugly (eg "should've" or "would've").
Ugly they may be but they are preferable to should of (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21548.msg384951#msg384951) and would of (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22017.msg394471#msg394471).
I think I can infer what the style guide says about split infinitives, too. 8)
The house style of the publication I currently work for is to always use ... to never use ... as chief sub ... .
I think I can infer what the style guide says about split infinitives, too. 8)
split infinitives
"The English-speaking world may be divided into (1) those who neither know nor care what a split infinitive is; (2) those who do not know, but care very much; (3) those who know and condemn; (4) those who know and distinguish. Those who neither know nor care are the vast majority, and are happy folk, to be envied." (HW Fowler, Modern English Usage, 1926)
It is perfectly acceptable, and often desirable, to sensibly split infinitives – "to boldly go" is an elegant and effective phrase – and stubbornly to resist doing so can sound pompous and awkward ("the economic precipice on which they claim perpetually to be poised") or ambiguous: "he even offered personally to guarantee the loan that the Clintons needed to buy their house " raises the question of whether the offer, or the guarantee, was personal.
George Bernard Shaw got it about right after an editor tinkered with his infinitives: "I don't care if he is made to go quickly, or to quickly go – but go he must!"
X isn't trying to convert the likes of you and I to his cause.
X isn't trying to convert I to his cause.It annoys I. It makes I want to shake people.
From an American colleague I just had 'Thanks for a great gather!'. Grr.
From an American colleague I just had 'Thanks for a great gather!'. Grr.Isn't that something to do with curtains?
Adoption of more Americanisms, specifically newer and older. e.g "for sale, newer bike frame", "for sale older rear mech".
I always want to ask "older than what?". It seems "newer" means not new but nearly so, and "older" means old but not old enough to be called old. Can a user of these terms explain what is meant and at what point something that is newer becomes older?
If that truly is an Americanism, then it's a recent one (been away for a few years). I've never heard newer/older used in such a way.I lived there 97-01 and it is common in for sale adverts. It is one of those annoying (to me) things I now find in use in this country. It is fairly recent, only the last year or so, and can even be found in use in for sale ads on this forum.
If that truly is an Americanism, then it's a recent one (been away for a few years). I've never heard newer/older used in such a way.I lived there 97-01 and it is common in for sale adverts. It is one of those annoying (to me) things I now find now in use in this country. It is fairly recent, only the last year or so, and can even be found in use in for sale ads on this forum.
Interesting. Can I ask where in the US? I left in '99 and I never heard it; wonder if it's regional.All up and down the West coast. Here's an example, a "newer" house NWhomes (http://apartments.nwsource.com/properties/search/results.php?qTerms=rent&qSearchTab=rent&qAction=search&qCity=mill+creek&qZip=&noProperyTypes=&qMinPrice=0&qMaxPrice=&qBedrooms=&x=0&y=0)
Mrs. Wow refers to people as being "older" when she just means "old" but is trying to be polite. I'm not sure if it's a Northern phenomenon, restricted to Stalybridge or just some idiosyncratic nonsense from Mrs. Wow's Mad Mother.I've also heard this, up north.
Interesting. Can I ask where in the US? I left in '99 and I never heard it; wonder if it's regional.All up and down the West coast. Here's an example, a "newer" house NWhomes (http://apartments.nwsource.com/properties/search/results.php?qTerms=rent&qSearchTab=rent&qAction=search&qCity=mill+creek&qZip=&noProperyTypes=&qMinPrice=0&qMaxPrice=&qBedrooms=&x=0&y=0)
Mrs. Wow refers to people as being "older" when she just means "old" but is trying to be polite. I'm not sure if it's a Northern phenomenon, restricted to Stalybridge or just some idiosyncratic nonsense from Mrs. Wow's Mad Mother.I've also heard this, up north.
This includes the middle aged newsreader who used "one pence" one TV a few evenings ago.
Fish has 2 plurals too. Fish and fishes.And person. Persons and People. (Sort of)
Fish has 2 plurals too. Fish and fishes.And person. Persons and People. (Sort of)
People has a plural.
None of you are selling 2010 dairies as advertised.Is some great advance in milk processing technology imminent? ???
I bet the signs actually say "dairy's" or "dairie's."
However, whilst I acknowledge the surge in popularity of homegrown veg, keeping chickens, starting allotments and even the odd pig here and there, take it from me. None of you are selling 2010 dairies as advertised.
H'mkay?
Greg is normally on the ball. Tesco is a company, therefore I think it should be:
Tesco also produces a 'local farmers' milk ...
None of you are selling 2010 dairies as advertised.
When finding the corpse of more than one such aristocrat, you can do a discount (not pronounced as spelled).This includes the middle aged newsreader who used "one pence" one TV a few evenings ago.
Heard on BBC telly and radio respectively:
"Viscount", pronounced as spelled.
"Corps", pronounced as spelled.
Morons (pronounced as spelled).
Mortality is unacceptably high. This area needs to be pressurised.
Pressurised.
You can do it to chambers. You can do it to gases. You can't do it to a farrowing house.Quote from: The Vet.Mortality is unacceptably high. This area needs to be pressurised.
No it doesn't. It needs greater attention to be paid, it needs greater staff focus, it needs prioritising, it needs a procedural/ medication review. It might even need condemning, but it doesn't need to be pressurised. If it did, we'd need to rebuild the sheds to be air and water tight, and that would be dreadful for the poor little piglets.
Tcha.
All prices are for online purchases only and may differ to the prices in Waterstone's stores
Oi! You're supposed to be selling books and increasing the overall literacy level, not doing this:Quote from: Waterstones WebsiteAll prices are for online purchases only and may differ to the prices in Waterstone's stores
::-)
Quote from: Waterstones Website
The URL doesn't have an apostrophe in. So the website is just plain "Waterstones" !Quote from: Waterstones Website
You missed the apostrophe from the company name.
If it was good enough for George Bernard Shaw . . . .Quote from: Waterstones Website
You missed the apostrophe from the company name.
Principle 3: the possessive apostrophe is an abomination, hallowed only by usage.The apostrophe (http://www.dace.co.uk/apostrophe.htm)
It appears there is some disease in the English mind which tends over the centuries to increase the number of apostrophes. This disease has now reached its crisis, in that it can hardly get any worse.;D
George Bernard Shaw tried to persuade people not to put in the possessive apostrophe, but this has not caught on. Nevertheless, if in doubt it is better to leave an apostrophe out than to put it in. This is because if you leave it out incorrectly this will be put down either to an oversight or to an affinity with the views of George Bernard Shaw [ed: works for me]. On the other hand, if you put it in incorrectly this will be attributed (rightly) to ignorance.
I noticed that, but left it as was. I don't care about their apostrophe ;)
Xmas - the abbreviation.
I bought a Belgian bun today in the Co-op. The wrapper said it was a Belgium bun. Supermarket proofreader failure!
I bought a Belgian bun today in the Co-op. The wrapper said it was a Belgium bun. Supermarket proofreader failure!
Perhaps it was made of Brussels.
From the BBC's news website here:Not any more! :thumbsup:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm)
'The thief is thought to have drove off towards the New Theatre'
He is thought to have driven down Park Grove towards the New Theatre before abandoning the car in Park Place.
From the BBC's news website here:Not any more! :thumbsup:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm)
'The thief is thought to have drove off towards the New Theatre'QuoteHe is thought to have driven down Park Grove towards the New Theatre before abandoning the car in Park Place.
From the BBC's news website here:Not any more! :thumbsup:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm)
'The thief is thought to have drove off towards the New Theatre'QuoteHe is thought to have driven down Park Grove towards the New Theatre before abandoning the car in Park Place.
The caption under the little map is as I posted earlier. Checked at 1420 Christmas Day.
From the BBC's news website here:Not any more! :thumbsup:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8427671.stm)
'The thief is thought to have drove off towards the New Theatre'QuoteHe is thought to have driven down Park Grove towards the New Theatre before abandoning the car in Park Place.
The caption under the little map is as I posted earlier. Checked at 1420 Christmas Day.
Oh, beg pardon. I didn't look at that.
THe Bloody Broad casting Corporation!
Temperatures are neither hot nor cold. Not even "best. They are either low or high.
And, Martha Fecking-Carney, what does "unpassable" mean? That one cannot defecate it, or that a vehicle can't go a long it (as of road)? Try "impassable".
During the opening credits of the new Sherlock Holmes film, a newspaper front page flashes up on the screen, with the headline:
"Sherlock Holmes aides police"
Gah!
I noticed that, but I wasn't sure it that was how it was back then.
But I'm glad I didn't get up and walk out of the cinema right then - it was actually a pretty decent film despite that.
d.
At my sister's this week I dipped into The Lynne Truss Book*.I own a copy, & have read it. How far down the road to perdition am I?
I confess I learned a lot and found it well written and entertaining. Is this the beginning of the end for me?
*For it shall bring bad luck upon those who utter its full name.
At my sister's this week I dipped into The Lynne Truss Book*.I own a copy, & have read it. How far down the road to perdition am I?
I confess I learned a lot and found it well written and entertaining. Is this the beginning of the end for me?
*For it shall bring bad luck upon those who utter its full name.
What's wrong with 'colleague' all of a sudden?
What's wrong with 'colleague' all of a sudden?
"Colleague" would have been equally wrong in this instance.
I have no problem with, say, John Lewis describing members of staff as "Partners" because that term is not necessarily contingent on my relationship with them as a customer of the store.
But "co-worker" (or indeed "colleague") implies a status that is shared by me (the customer) and the employee, and no such status exists.
d.
Pop along to page 45 and 46 on the snowing thread - that is where it is all happening.
Hey everyone! There's a fight in the playground!
Pop along to page 45 and 46 on the snowing thread - that is where it is all happening.
Oh look, we are back to colleague announcements (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg405170#msg405170) ;D
Not exactly a grammar cringe, but this is the best place for it.It's like the way Americans use "momentarily" where we would use "presently". "I will do it momentarily" means "I won't do it for long" in British English, but "I will do it very soon" in American English.
Why do Radio 4 presenters keep saying "temporally" when they mean "temporarily"? It's not just a pronunciation issue - I don't care when they say "Tempory" because it's clear they meant temporary - the point is that "temporally" is an actual word and it doesn't mean the same as "temporarily". I've heard it three times this week and it's driving me nuts.
At my sister's this week I dipped into The Lynne Truss Book*.I also have David Crystal's reply to That Book, which deliberately has an almost identical appearance.
I confess I learned a lot and found it well written and entertaining. Is this the beginning of the end for me?
*For it shall bring bad luck upon those who utter its full name.
It's like the way Americans use "momentarily" where we would use "presently". "I will do it momentarily" means "I won't do it for long" in British English, but "I will do it very soon" in American English.
We are now,as I have mentioned before, in a world where a GCSE A* in French is awarded to someone who cannot conjugate the verb "to be" in the present tense.In that case, I want my old O-level upgraded.
We are now,as I have mentioned before, in a world where a GCSE A* in French is awarded to someone who cannot conjugate the verb "to be" in the present tense.In that case, I want my old O-level upgraded.
Give it another 100 years and it'll be "Stamps celebrate Beavers".You think there'll still be stamps in a hundred years? It'll be a digital signature or summat that you can download and attach to an email.
Indeed. The absence of an apostrophe where one is commonly used or possibly optional is far less of a crime than adding one in where it is not necessary.
The latter ideally punishable by something causing a mild case of death, possibly SHOVEL related.
Indeed. The absence of an apostrophe where one is commonly used or possibly optional is far less of a crime than adding one in where it is not necessary.
The latter ideally punishable by something causing a mild case of death, possibly SHOVEL related.
I have to say I am a keen supporter of your proposal's.
it made me want to scream "MORE QUICKLY!"
Round a bloody pound makes no sense!Is it a beer shop?
No, is going to be a most stuff is about £1 shop I think.
Hell is other people's notion of good enough. What does the jury think of "increasingly rarer":
"Serious infections are rare and getting increasingly rarer thanks to vaccinations." (http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2010/100203.html)
Surely, "increasingly rare" is "rarer" (so "increasingly" is redundant, making "increasingly rarer" recursive), grumble, grumble.
Another from the Beeb...
"Top 20 London universities are attracting the most number of ethnic minority students, a study finds."
Eek!
Hell is other people's notion of good enough. What does the jury think of "increasingly rarer":
"Serious infections are rare and getting increasingly rarer thanks to vaccinations." (http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2010/100203.html)
Surely, "increasingly rare" is "rarer" (so "increasingly" is redundant, making "increasingly rarer" recursive), grumble, grumble.
Where are all the copy editors/proof readers?Fired. No longer wanted. Typos, poor grammar, & misspellings are now preferred to paying people to prevent them.
They're using Word with the default spellchecker, because they know no better. :(
I would, of course, have preferred 'apologise' to 'apologize'...
Another from the Beeb...
"Top 20 London universities are attracting the most number of ethnic minority students, a study finds."
Eek!
And the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7111525/UN-climate-change-panel-based-claims-on-student-dissertation-and-magazine-article.html):
"...coral reefs near mangrove forests contained up to 25 times more fish numbers than those without mangroves nearby..."
<snip>.. please see your doctor. They may ask you to start taking your tablets again and come of them more slowly.
(Upto) +1
And the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7111525/UN-climate-change-panel-based-claims-on-student-dissertation-and-magazine-article.html):
"...coral reefs near mangrove forests contained up to 25 times more fish numbers than those without mangroves nearby..."
Not really grammer, but I hate that use of 'up to', as well. 'Up to 25 times'? So it could be double, or even identical numbers of fish, then?
'Sale' or 'Discount' on goods that are available only from one company and the price is set by that company - meaningless.
I hate "up to 50% off", "reductions of up to 50%" or "up to 50% off and an extra discount of 15% today".I always assume this means the latter, i.e. you will pay between 50% and 99% (or even, theoretically, 100%) of the original price. But I think the only way to find out is to ask the current price for each item, as the sales staff can't be relied to understand the difference. :(
(a) the first two are meaningless, and the retailers know this.
(b) is the 15% off the already-reduced price, or off the full price? So if there was a product with 50% off, is it now 35% of the original price or only 42.5%?
And worst of all, there's the "up to half price sale". Does this mean prices are no higher than 50% of the original price, or no lower than 50% of the original price? In other words, are the prices up to half original price or are the discounts up to half original price?
- high protection against scratches and dust
- the Skin fits the iPhone a hundred percently
- high quality converting
- excellent heat conduction
- extreme resilient
That's not really fair as it was written by a German.
That's not really fair as it was written by a German.
a) how was I supposed to know that? For that matter, how do you know it was written by a German?
the Skin fits the iPhone a hundred percently
This whole thread makes me cringe if I'm being honest.Makes "one" cringe surely? :P
a) how was I supposed to know that? For that matter, how do you know it was written by a German?
Probably a guess based on the fact that the contact number for the seller (kf-trendstore2) is +49xxxxxxxxxxx. (That information was just a click away.)
In future, I shall remember to spend more time investigating the author's background before making frivolous comments about bad English on an internet message board. ::-)
I like the way the sub-editors of the BBC RSS news service quickly mash words together to provide the detail
Giant snowman collapses on boy, 2
A 3m (10ft) snow figure falls on a two-year-old boy on holiday in Austria but he is unhurt after a night in hospital.
Was the snowman hurt, or the boy, and just exactly what were they expecting the hospital to do?
I like the way the sub-editors of the BBC RSS news service quickly mash words together to provide the detail
Giant snowman collapses on boy, 2
A 3m (10ft) snow figure falls on a two-year-old boy on holiday in Austria but he is unhurt after a night in hospital.
Was the snowman hurt, or the boy, and just exactly what were they expecting the hospital to do?
And who is on holiday, the snowman or the boy, or both?
Unless someone writes only in simple single clause sentences, these type of ambiguities are completely normal, context usually makes it clear what is meant. Would anyone ever use "he is unhurt" about a "snow figure"?
'Tother week in my German studies at Uni we discovered that in German you are able to differentiate the following:"Seine" equivalent to the Latin "su" meaning "one's own"? I have forgotten how to say this in German :-[ and have never learnt Latin, but a word with this meaning - belonging to the subject of the clause, but applicable to all persons - exists in many European languages. In Polish it's "swój".
The journalist told the author (female) about her friend
In English we don't know if the friend is the friend of the journalist or the author. In German you use a different word for 'her' which shows you to whom the friend belongs. Which is nice and precise, in a typical German way!
A letter I received from my bank this morning:
It would have irritated me slightly less if they'd actually sent me the envelopes I requested.
You get 'ihrer' for her (the journalist), or 'derer' for her (the author).
My German teacher spent a fair while explaining how German can be excessively precise like this, thus why it's a good language for technical stuff.
Perhaps someone has mentioned this already but one I hate is the use of "invite" as a noun. It's "invitation".Yep, that gets right up my nose too!
A member of the British olympic team was heard, on the radio this morning, to speak of her potential disappointment if she 'fails to medal.' :facepalm:
If it was on the radio, are you sure she didn't mean 'meddle'? ;)
Perhaps someone has mentioned this already but one I hate is the use of "invite" as a noun. It's "invitation".
Calm now 8)
And if burglarize is the verb, then is the agent a burglarizer?
I can accept "medal" and "podium" as verbs, as there are no single-word equivalents. I don't like them, but I can accept them. But "burglarize" is actuallylonger than the existing standard word. What's the point? And if burglarize is the verb, then is the agent a burglarizer?
We all know what "He's a talent" means. Why problemize it?
Burglarized
*smack*
That's not a talent. A talent was a big accounting unit, not a coin. If expressed in metal, it was far too much to be a single coin. It varied from time to time & place to place, but about 25-30 kg of silver seems to have been the norm. That's a good few years pay for most people, back then. The 5th century BC Athenian talent was 6000 drachmas (about 26 kg), & a drachma was reckoned to be a day labourers wage.
We all know what "He's a talent" means. Why problemize it?
I know what it means, I'm just not sure why you'd want to describe someone as a small, low value, ancient Greek coin. :D
Never mind all that, how much does a Grecian earn?
The same way as you make a Nazi cross...Finally, the thread ends. ;)
Oh bugger - Godwin! :-[
Shouldn't you have put an apostrophe before that s?Finally, the thread 'ends. ;)
Hurrah:
losers spell it 'looser'
(http://www.loseloose.com/)
What if you get lose/loose wrong despite knowing what the difference is? It's not easy for everyone. :-[
WI Lady on R4 yesterday: "We have a specific criteria by which we judge marmalade"Obviously, you judge marmalade by a criterium. Nothing to do with that criterion racing, that's for critters.
Get in the cannon, woman.
What if you get lose/loose wrong despite knowing what the difference is? It's not easy for everyone. :-[
... despite knowing what the difference is ...There are a number of word pairs, such as stationary/stationery, that gave me no problems until my English teacher told us not to confuse them. This was, I suppose, a case of not having noticed what the similarity is ;)
Perhaps 'loosing' was correct if the rider was unleashing his majesty ;)
From the same catalogue, however, WTF is 'Lifestyle seating'? :o
From the same catalogue, however, WTF is 'Lifestyle seating'? :o
It's probably something you use to create a "lifestyle ambience", a preposterous phrase I heard used on some ridiculous home makeover programme a few years ago.
My son, who must have been about 6 or 7 at the time, misheard it as "lifecycle ambulance", which to be fair, makes just as much sense.
d.
I've just noticed 'Aqua' on the shampoo bottle, a mysterious ingredient that magically wets your hair.There was a tv advert a few years ago for some new moisturiser containing "aquaspheres." We assumed they meant "blobs of water."
I believe water is described as aqua in lists of chemical ingredients in line with some international standard.
Does poland really have shampoo made out of turnips? Fantastic :)
It's supposed to be good for greasy hair. Or perhaps it's dandruff or something, I forget.
Anyway it occured to me the following kind of translated lists could be used:
Ingredients/Składniki: Water/Woda, Cocamidopropyle, Turnip Extract/Wyciąg z rzepaka, Camel fat/Tłuszcz z wielbłąda, ....
No, we don't actually have shampoo made from camel fat. But I'm sure it would be good for something!
I don't see how you could have an allergy to water. But I don't claim to know that for certain.
Of course, they could just translate the list, as with food ingredients, but there are two problems with that: 1) most chemicals have no common name in any language 2) having the same list for all means you can recognise an ingredient you know you are allergic to, wherever you may be.
...unless they can quote Fowlers by heart... ;)
How do you fill something with nothing?
On Facebook, part of a political advertisement: Britain's roads are filled with potholes.
How do you fill something with nothing? Potholes are gaps, hollows, nothing but fresh air - or occasionally filled with water and thus dangerous puddles.
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall....
I have just received an email that mentors in a company program will be meeting their MENTEES for a session to develop goals.
How can this be a real word? Am I being asked to ment this person?
I feel like I am the tormentee in this situation. Argh.
True. We don't have teacher & teachee, or lecturer and lecturee, nor doctor and doctee or nurse and nursee.
True. We don't have teacher & teachee, or lecturer and lecturee, nor doctor and doctee or nurse and nursee.
Precisely. Any fule kno that in modern Britain the correct term-pairings for those relationships are: teacher and client, lecturer and client, doctor and client, nurse and client.
d.
We need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that such relationships need to be described with words that share a root.If I describe anything incorrectly, feel free to unscribe it for me. Or rescribe, or ...
True. We don't have teacher & teachee, or lecturer and lecturee, nor doctor and doctee or nurse and nursee.
Precisely. Any fule kno that in modern Britain the correct term-pairings for those relationships are: teacher and client, lecturer and client, doctor and client, nurse and client.
d.
You must live in a posh area. I thought the correct corollary was 'customer' :demon:
I am required to use that "c"-word...... :sick:True. We don't have teacher & teachee, or lecturer and lecturee, nor doctor and doctee or nurse and nursee.
Precisely. Any fule kno that in modern Britain the correct term-pairings for those relationships are: teacher and client, lecturer and client, doctor and client, nurse and client.
d.
You must live in a posh area. I thought the correct corollary was 'customer' :demon:
Yet no-one bats an eyelid at "attendee". They are doing the attending, they are attenders, no?Yes, of course. An attendee is the object of the attentions of an attendant.
The "root" of the word mentor is a character in the Odyssey, not the verb "to ment", so it's nonsense to talk of a "mentee".Ah, if that's the root, then your argument is unanswerable, and mentee is silly.
I prefer "young padawan" or "Grasshopper."
Edit: I've looked it up and it seems the most common terms for someone who has a mentor are "apprentice" or "disciple".
I think it is? (But we do try to beat it out of our young - in a non-physical violence way of course)
This isn't strictly grammer
This isn't strictly grammer
...or spelling, apparently. ;)
d.
I have spent time recently educating a soon to be graduate that the singular form of premises is premises not premise when talking about property.??? It's usual to talk of "these premises", not "this premises". Is there a singular?
I have spent time recently educating a soon to be graduate that the singular form of premises is premises not premise when talking about property.
I have spent time recently educating a soon to be graduate that the singular form of premises is premises not premise when talking about property.??? It's usual to talk of "these premises", not "this premises". Is there a singular?
I took out of my inside tunic pocket a small pad and a pencil stub that I'd recently acquisitioned from a desk drawer of my company Orderly Room at Fort Benning.In think this verb is a good invention. Although it's meaning may be the same as "acquired" the ending lends a shade of "recquisitioned", particularly given the military context.
I've read that languages continually get simpler. Presumably we'll end up with one word meaning everything...
This thread has complained about quite a lot of verbs derived from nouns where there already exists a verb with the same meaning. "Leverage" and "burglarize" are two examples that spring instantly to mind.
It's in relation to the use of the term in town planning reports eg. the proposal is to erect premises for use as three "food premises" (defined term). When talking about one of them it does not become a "premise" but remains premises.Is that legitimate? I think I'd want to talk about three sets of premises. It's not "a premises" when you have one.
There appears to have been burglarization of meaning here.;D
This thread has complained about quite a lot of verbs derived from nouns where there already exists a verb with the same meaning. "Leverage" and "burglarize" are two examples that spring instantly to mind. My addition to this category is "to acquisition".That's a nice example of inventing a word for the sake of colour/humour.QuoteI took out of my inside tunic pocket a small pad and a pencil stub that I'd recently acquisitioned from a desk drawer of my company Orderly Room at Fort Benning.In think this verb is a good invention. Although it's meaning may be the same as "acquired" the ending lends a shade of "recquisitioned", particularly given the military context.
In any case, I'm not going to argue with J.D. Salinger.
It's in relation to the use of the term in town planning reports eg. the proposal is to erect premises for use as three "food premises" (defined term). When talking about one of them it does not become a "premise" but remains premises.Is that legitimate? I think I'd want to talk about three sets of premises. It's not "a premises" when you have one.
I don't think the military invented it - I got the impression Salinger himself invented it. But I haven't checked that.This thread has complained about quite a lot of verbs derived from nouns where there already exists a verb with the same meaning. "Leverage" and "burglarize" are two examples that spring instantly to mind. My addition to this category is "to acquisition".That's a nice example of inventing a word for the sake of colour/humour.QuoteI took out of my inside tunic pocket a small pad and a pencil stub that I'd recently acquisitioned from a desk drawer of my company Orderly Room at Fort Benning.In think this verb is a good invention. Although it's meaning may be the same as "acquired" the ending lends a shade of "recquisitioned", particularly given the military context.
In any case, I'm not going to argue with J.D. Salinger.
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves ...
It's completely different to then treat
"acquisitioned"
... as a useful new word. Daft, in fact. The military are well known for inventing stupid words and jargon - doesn't mean the rest of us should use it!
Additional xxxx laptops are available for use in the meeting rooms, yyy and zzzz will require to use their own laptops in these rooms for presentations...
The lower figure will likely increase the impetus of the coalition government to cut public spending, as lower growth means fewer tax revenues.
Quote from: BBC NewsThe lower figure will likely increase the impetus of the coalition government to cut public spending, as lower growth means fewer tax revenues.
::-)
Let's circularise that to the members
Quote from: BBC NewsThe lower figure will likely increase the impetus of the coalition government to cut public spending, as lower growth means fewer tax revenues.
::-)
Quote from: BBC NewsThe lower figure will likely increase the impetus of the coalition government to cut public spending, as lower growth means fewer tax revenues.
And what is wrong with that? ???
Quote from: BBC NewsThe lower figure will likely increase the impetus of the coalition government to cut public spending, as lower growth means fewer tax revenues.
And what is wrong with that? ???
'Fewer tax revenues' sounds odd. It would only make sense if they were reducing the number of separate tax revenue streams (fat chance!). I'd have written 'less tax revenue'. There's no need to pluralise 'revenue'.
There's also an argument to be had over whether 'likely' is an adjective or an adverb. I think it's an adjective, and I don't like seeing it used as a synonym for 'probably'. But I think I'm fighting a losing battle on that one.
if it is accepted that there can be more than one revenue ... it is correct as written.
I posted it because when people get it wrong it's nearly always because they use less where they should have used fewer.
"Me" as subject doesn't bother me so much - in fact, I should admit that I sometimes use it myself.+1.
I don't know why "I" as object seems so much more offensive. Perhaps because it sounds a little affected, as if the person is trying too hard to be "correct" and still getting it wrong.
d.
Just try taking out the "you and". If it still sounds right it probably is.+ Lots. Such a simple rule. And it works. :thumbsup:
Just try taking out the "you and". If it still sounds right it probably is.+ Lots. Such a simple rule. And it works. :thumbsup:
Just try taking out the "you and". If it still sounds right it probably is.+ Lots. Such a simple rule. And it works. :thumbsup:
Of course, the same applies elsewhere. If it's Peter's wedding, it's still his if we mention his partner, so it's Peter's and Mary's wedding, not Peter and Mary's :)I'm not sure I agree with that.
Reminds me of something my English teacher used to say about men with big noses...+1
d.
I met Mary's aunt, who happens to be Peter's aunt too.
I think you'll find that's Norfolk and not Darzet :oI met Mary's aunt, who happens to be Peter's aunt too.
Presumably they are cousins then, as they have just got married? (or it is in Dorset, in which case they could be brother and sister? ;D )
This is a long thread but the one generic phraseology that drives me mad at the moment is the advertising speak:
"up to 50% saving"
"up to 20% off"
which of course is a completely meaningless statement. 0% falls within that catchment.
It all started with a toothpaste manufacturer in the late 70's
"Up to 30% fewer fillings"
I complained to the ASA at the time and it was upheld, but the phrase is endemic now.
I'm not sure that's a legitimate construction. It's also open to ambiguity. For example:Because of that ambiguity, I'd hope that the author would use the alternative versions:
"I met Peter and Mary's aunt."
How many people did I meet?
I met Mary's aunt, who happens to be Peter's aunt too.is quite a lot of extra words when just putting back the missing 's is equally unambiguous.
I do wish people would learn "loose/lose". It's amazing how many clever folks get it wrong.
That would be me (okayzunally)! I call it:I do wish people would learn "loose/lose". It's amazing how many clever folks get it wrong.
Some people know the difference, and yet still can't get it right. Something wrong in the head.
:-[
Yebbut if I were to pay £7.50 (which is the price I believe will be charged) for the publication I am reading at present, I would SCREAM at all these howlers.
The number of people killed at work in Scotland last year has fallen, according to figures from the Health and Safety Executive
This is a long thread but the one generic phraseology that drives me mad at the moment is the advertising speak:
"up to 50% saving"
"up to 20% off"
which of course is a completely meaningless statement. 0% falls within that catchment.
It all started with a toothpaste manufacturer in the late 70's
"Up to 30% fewer fillings"
I complained to the ASA at the time and it was upheld, but the phrase is endemic now.
England is ...No, the idea that eleven individual players could meld into one team is quite unknown to England.
The players are ...
A collective entity is still AN ENTITY, as in ONE, singular. A body can have 50 milliard members, but that doesn't make the 'body' plural!
Americans can handle this concept quite easily. Does such a concept not exist in British English? ???
The thing that is really getting to me at the moment is 'should of'.People writing the way they speak. Since they cannot pronounce or enunciate correctly they write incorrectly as well. I too hate all the would of, could of, should of etc.
I don't have a problem with the written 'should've' but where did this abomination come from?
The poo ending amuses me. People cannot seem to pronounce words ending in le these days, and so people becomes peepoo. Makes me :sick:
The poo ending amuses me. People cannot seem to pronounce words ending in le these days, and so people becomes peepoo. Makes me :sick:
Come back Michael Howard - a real man of the peepilll. :thumbsup: ;)
Listen BBC - when it means the end of the day it's eve-ning, it's only even-ing when it means flattening.
The thing that is really getting to me at the moment is 'should of'.
I don't have a problem with the written 'should've' but where did this abomination come from?
Did anyone else see the new series of "That Mitchell and Webb Look" last night ? They had a brilliant sketch where a boss in an office lost it and shot anyone who made a grammatical or pronunciation error.
The ignoramuses / ignorami end was genius.
The Jaguar or the Aston ... both great, but which is fastest?
'haitch', of course. Seems to be standard with every sales / service agent these days.
Complaining about pop lyrics is a good way to earn respect on this thread ;)
Grrrrrrr
On today's Evans site:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/__5EyI8Ck-Lw/TEQt2bf8oOI/AAAAAAAAUkk/jKK_U7SHHuM/s320/Evans%20Cycles%20%20Mountain%20Bike%20%20Specialized%20Bikes%20%20UK%20Online%20Bike%20Shop%20-%20Google%20Chrome%2019072010%20114925.jpg)
This is a charming stage most young children go through when they begin to learn to write and spell, with basic phonic skills and before they learn the difference between standard and non standard English. Non standard English (NSE) is fine- it's various forms add richness and diversity to the language and have done for centuries. The version of NSE you describe may not be the way you speak but so what- who is to say which version of English is the right one? The problem with NSE is that it's situationally, culturally and geographically specific. So , obviously, we all need knowledge of standard English as well as our own form of NSE and we need to learn when it's appropriate to use it and not appropriate to use our NSE. I would agree, some people seem to struggle with this.The thing that is really getting to me at the moment is 'should of'.People writing the way they speak. Since they cannot pronounce or enunciate correctly they write incorrectly as well. I too hate all the would of, could of, should of etc.
I don't have a problem with the written 'should've' but where did this abomination come from?
We will soon be writing about "anuvah exampoo of bad spellun". The poo ending amuses me. People cannot seem to pronounce words ending in le these days, and so people becomes peepoo. Makes me :sick:
Grrrrrrr
On today's Evans site:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/__5EyI8Ck-Lw/TEQt2bf8oOI/AAAAAAAAUkk/jKK_U7SHHuM/s320/Evans%20Cycles%20%20Mountain%20Bike%20%20Specialized%20Bikes%20%20UK%20Online%20Bike%20Shop%20-%20Google%20Chrome%2019072010%20114925.jpg)
Evans ian't not never been the same since Gary Smith sold it on! ;D
This is a charming stage most young children go through when they begin to learn to write and spell, with basic phonic skills and before they learn the difference between standard and non standard English. Non standard English (NSE) is fine- it's various forms add richness and diversity to the language and have done for centuries. The version of NSE you describe may not be the way you speak but so what- who is to say which version of English is the right one? The problem with NSE is that it's situationally, culturally and geographically specific. So , obviously, we all need knowledge of standard English as well as our own form of NSE and we need to learn when it's appropriate to use it and not appropriate to use our NSE. I would agree, some people seem to struggle with this.The thing that is really getting to me at the moment is 'should of'.People writing the way they speak. Since they cannot pronounce or enunciate correctly they write incorrectly as well. I too hate all the would of, could of, should of etc.
I don't have a problem with the written 'should've' but where did this abomination come from?
We will soon be writing about "anuvah exampoo of bad spellun". The poo ending amuses me. People cannot seem to pronounce words ending in le these days, and so people becomes peepoo. Makes me :sick:
"Today, the defining struggle in the world is between relentless growth and the potential for collaboration"
Did anyone else see the new series of "That Mitchell and Webb Look" last night ? They had a brilliant sketch where a boss in an office lost it and shot anyone who made a grammatical or pronunciation error.
Lucy Mangan is on my laminated list. Here's one reason (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/mind-your-language/2010/jul/24/style-guide-grammar-lucy-mangan).
In reality, not splitting infinitives regularly results in ruined rhythms and altogether unhappier sentences. I tend not to split them, because I can't face justifying myself to all those who would complain, but I state here for the record that I adhere to the rule primarily out of sloth and cowardice, not out of moral principle.
I tend to not split them
Unfortunately she shot herself down in flames there
In reality, not splitting infinitives regularly results in ruined rhythms and altogether unhappier sentences.
Unfortunately she shot herself down in flames there
Really? Are you sure? Do you want to read that again?
If I were looking for something to pick on in that paragraph, it would be her use of "regularly"...QuoteIn reality, not splitting infinitives regularly results in ruined rhythms and altogether unhappier sentences.
Halley's comet appears in our skies regularly - every 76 years. Is that what you mean, Mangler? Or do you mean "often"? In your defence, at least you didn't use the inexpicably popular "on a regular basis".
d.
In reality, not splitting infinitives regularly3 results in ruined rhythms
3 Just kidding again – "frequently".
If I were looking for something to pick on in that paragraph, it would be her use of "regularly"...
Oh, and there's more. I feel a submission to the Eye coming on.Quote"Today, the defining struggle in the world is between relentless growth and the potential for collaboration"
Astonishing. That is a true masterpiece of corporate bullshit.
d.
OK, she says she tends not to split them, but her principal* argument is that she'd really like to. I suppose you could read it either way.Unfortunately she shot herself down in flames there
Really? Are you sure? Do you want to read that again?
Hmm. The original article has a footnote here explaining that her use of "regularly" instead of "frequently" was ironic. OK, I'll let her off this time.For those who struggle with "regular" and "frequent":
Hmm. The original article has a footnote here explaining that her use of "regularly" instead of "frequently" was ironic. OK, I'll let her off this time.For those who struggle with "regular" and "frequent":
The UK railway station with the most REGULAR train service is Fishguard Harbour. A train at 0300 each day, and another at 1500 each day - Monday to Sunday. That means a train every 12 hours.
By no means frequent.
Oh, golly. I've just received a fundraising letter from a university---with an internationally respected publisher attached, too.
It's entitled "Oxford Thinking. And Doing." and the punctuation only gets worse. There are nine pages of captioned pictures which have full stops at the end of all, and only, those phrases which aren't actual sentences. There's a letter signed by the V-C telling me "We are becoming one world. Our world."
Among all this horrorshow syntax the opening sentence of the letter, "Today, the defining struggle in the world is between relentless growth and the potential for collaboration" is almost invisible, but deserves honorable mention for tendentious vacuity.
Surely, surely, decent grammar is one of the first requirements for professional curmudgeon-squeezers?
Farm where I get my eggses has put up a sign giving the date when the eggs were picked and their use-by date.
Nothing wrong with that.Farm where I get my eggses has put up a sign giving the date when the eggs were picked and their use-by date.
Do eggs grow on trees in Northamptonshire? ITWSBT.
;) ;D
Picked (as in to pick) entails a sorting and selection process...
You refer to pick as in the old anglo saxon word "pike".
Picked (as in to pick) entails a sorting and selection process...
I didn't select my nose.
Yup. Pick is from either pike or pitch, though my ancient Chambers' Etymological dictionary gives some entertaining Gaelic and Welsh options.You refer to pick as in the old anglo saxon word "pike".
Picked (as in to pick) entails a sorting and selection process...
I didn't select my nose.
How did you hear about us:
i.e. a search engine, an existing user, an advertsiement [sic], saw usage on another website, in a dream, ...
Hmm. The original article has a footnote here explaining that her use of "regularly" instead of "frequently" was ironic. OK, I'll let her off this time.For those who struggle with "regular" and "frequent":
The UK railway station with the most REGULAR train service is Fishguard Harbour. A train at 0300 each day, and another at 1500 each day - Monday to Sunday. That means a train every 12 hours.
By no means frequent.
Indeed. Wound up partner big time when he told me I should clean my teeth regularly so I told him I'd do them every year. ;) ;D :demon:
He didn't see the joke.
(TBF I'd crashed out without my customary nocturnal toothscrub.)
Just read in a paper. It was at the bottom of the page before it sank in, so I had to turn back to ensure I hadn't made it up:
'...a degree of immortality...'
I know it's been raised many times before but: principle/ principal - how can I explain it so that graduates in my team get it? I'm a bit tired of correcting it.
Advanced warning
shipping cost (everywhere in the world)The rest of that page is in French, it's clearly a case of (very) bad translation. Yes, they should have had it checked, but is is different from crap grammar in your native language. I promise not to point out similar mistakes in your Slovak if you don't in my Polish. :)
under 10 € = 3.30 €
up to 10 € = 4.50 €
From the bottom of this page (http://www.chez-delaney.com/stickers.html).
What is the postage if I buy 10 or more euros worth of goods?
You can indeed pick eggs.
"The person, who cleans this toilet maybe male or female"
Crap sign at Wigan NW station. I quite often see "maybe" when it should be "may be".
"The person, who cleans this toilet maybe male or female"
Crap sign at Wigan NW station. I quite often see "maybe" when it should be "may be".
"The person, who cleans this toilet maybe male or female"
Crap sign at Wigan NW station. I quite often see "maybe" when it should be "may be".
Or in this case you could petty safely replace "maybe" with "will be".
Or in this case you could petty safely replace "maybe" with "will be".
The contractor has arranged for both the internal and external area’s of the building to be inspected tomorrow affected by the water, and will arrange the appropriate repairs thereafter.
QuoteThe contractor has arranged for both the internal and external areas of the building to be inspected tomorrow affected by the water, and will arrange the appropriate repairs thereafter.
::-)
repair's
A tooth-comb is what medieval orthodontists used to straighten out wonky teeth. No doubt the British Museum has some fine specimens.
Nit-wit ;DOoooh, subtle!
There is a singular form of 'consortia'! >:(
And still in a similar vein, the plural of media is not medias.I thought it was meeja.
d.
There is a singular form of 'consortia'! >:(
Indeed, in a similar vein there is also a singular form of 'criteria'.
Edit. I have just remembered that the gits do it with 'phenomena' as well.
Surely at some point, many of these words have become sufficiently Anglicised that an English plural is acceptable.
How many of the pluralists here useAll except agendum (sorry :( ) & bimbi - but I will now correct the latter omission. I like bimbi. Ta. :thumbsup:
medium
datum
agendum
graffito
when referring to one item from their more familiar plurals?
Or how many of you use
concerti
bimbi
in place of their more familiar singular versions?
How many of the pluralists here use
medium
datum
agendum
graffito
when referring to one item from their more familiar plurals?
Surely at some point, many of these words have become sufficiently Anglicised that an English plural is acceptable.
Oh no! I've often found occasion to use medium (in the sense of a single medium of communication, e.g. radio), datum, & graffito. How else would you refer to a single picture or tag on a wall than 'a graffito'?How many of the pluralists here use
medium
datum
agendum
graffito
when referring to one item from their more familiar plurals?
Er, I don't even know of an alternative singular form for any of these words, never mind use one. ???
Like "trousers", they're not words you'd commonly use in the singular form anyway -
Oh no! I've often found occasion to use medium (in the sense of a single medium of communication, e.g. radio), datum, & graffito.
How else would you refer to a single picture or tag on a wall than 'a graffito'?
+1 to thatOh no! I've often found occasion to use medium (in the sense of a single medium of communication, e.g. radio), datum, & graffito.
I would use "medium" in an artistic context, eg "What medium did the artist use for this work?"
I know that "data is" is incorrect, but it just fits so well with other related terms e.g.
"The data you supplied is incomplete, and so is the information from our other sources."
I suppose it's because I think of data encompassing a variety of forms other than simply a set of numbers e.g. "the data on a hard disk" may well include pictures, words etc.
That's not the point. "Media" is already a plural, it doesn't need to be pluralised. The complaint is more about using plural forms with a singular sense.
I'm wholly in favour of anglicised plurals of adopted words (stadiums, forums etc), especially when the English meaning of the word is somewhat distanced from its native meaning - eg bimbo.
d.
Surely at some point, many of these words have become sufficiently Anglicised that an English plural is acceptable.
But jo's point (I think), carrying on from Clarion's and Gandalf's examples, is that some people who criticize the use of the the plural form when the singular should be used do not do so consistently
I looked up "agenda" in my Fowlers because I realized that I didn't know if an agendum would refer to a single list of items, or an single item on such a list:
All except agendum (sorry :( ) & bimbi - but I will now correct the latter omission. I like bimbi. Ta. :thumbsup:
Not quite cringe-making, but the local, under-new-management, wine shop had a sign outside: We sell "ice".
"Value" 31 grammes "e" [What?! What possible sense are you trying to add to "e" there?]
With regard to labelling, products packed according the average weight system may use the 'e' mark when the nominal quantity is in the range 5g - 10kg (or 5ml - 10l). The mark shall be at least 3mm high, placed in the same field of vision as the weight/volume statement, and indelible, clearly legible and visible under normal conditions of purchase. The mark is not obligatory but when used is a guarantee, recognised throughout the EEC, that the goods to which it is applied have been packed in accordance with the relevant EEC Directive.
Fry slams BBC 'culture of fear'
Red Planet 'may not be lifeless'
edit: maybe they've decided to be consistent and always use them when re-reporting stuff other people have claimed. Else, I suppose, it might be perceived as an indicator of what the BBC does or doesn't believe to be true.
QuoteFry slams BBC 'culture of fear'
might be quite hard for the BBC to report without the quotation marks.
In some cases I think it's a deliberate distancing of the BBC from the suggestion being made by whoever it is quoting.
But things likeQuoteRed Planet 'may not be lifeless'
does look a bit silly, agreed.
edit: maybe they've decided to be consistent and always use them when re-reporting stuff other people have claimed. Else, I suppose, it might be perceived as an indicator of what the BBC does or doesn't believe to be true.
Except that they're paraphrasing the claims...
But things likeI'm sure it's terribly bad form to quote a post within this thread (and I'm sure you can find worse grammar crimes in some of my posts) but surely that should be "do look a bit silly". The subject is things, not Red Planet or the sentence containing Red Planet.QuoteRed Planet 'may not be lifeless'
does look a bit silly, agreed.
Newspapers do it - Man 'killed Bambi' , sort of thing - as a means of reporting allegations without getting caught for libel or contempt.
working with an Indian office I get loads of poorly written emails, but this is the best I've seen in ages (and yes, her name really is Pinky...)Oh dear - that suggests things are going to get very much worse.
She starts her 'English as a business language' course next week :)
I don't have a problem with the BBC's use. It seems to be the best way to report a 3rd party's comment.Completely agree - provided that they are quoting and not paraphrasing. If they are paraphrasing, they must take responsibility for the words.
However, I want to make it clear that I'm not hereby endorsing some of the appalling headlines on the BBC website, where the 'quote' in the headline often bears no relation to anything that's been said by anyone.
Poor children dying 'of neglect'
Why does Jermaine Jackson back Gambia's 'iron-fisted' leader?
Case of condemned female 'adulterer' creating problems abroad for Iran
Spain dismisses Eta 'ceasefire'
Iran 'hampers IAEA investigation'
ME 'virus link' found in children
Fry slams BBC 'culture of fear'
Murder accused's 'gymnastic sex'
EU gets Barroso 'state of union'
Red Planet 'may not be lifeless'
'Genetic link' to breast cancer
Non-stick pan 'cholesterol link'
... plus others, all on the front page.
quotes are a shorthand for "allegedly" or "so-called".
Peli & Woolly, and Ariadne IIRC (and us of course) own Octane 3s.
a massive BANG!. I'd had a spoke break.
Little grass snakes should be coming out precisely about now
Even Radio 4 can't be held entirely responsible for the grammar of contributors chosen for their technical knowledge.Quote from: chap on the wireless a couple of minutes agoLittle grass snakes should be coming out precisely about now
::-)
Quote from: chap on the wireless a couple of minutes agoLittle grass snakes should be coming out precisely about now
::-)
Quote from: chap on the wireless a couple of minutes agoLittle grass snakes should be coming out precisely about now
::-)
Easy. They're coming out in a precise fashion - ie without repetition, hesitation or deviation - and they're doing it about now. ;)
d.
a Loo tenant in His Majesty's army
Quote from: 'nother chap on the wirelessa Loo tenant in His Majesty's army
Not grammar, I know, but basic pronunciation error. >:(
Quote from: 'nother chap on the wirelessa Loo tenant in His Majesty's army
Not grammar, I know, but basic pronunciation error. >:(
Yeah. Everyone knows it's loyt-nant. ;)
When did it become compulsory to refer to our soldiers as troopers?OK when referring to cavalry regiments but infantry ?
If they were members of a cavalry regiment then it would be the correct address, I think.
I'm assuming the correct pronunciation is "Leff-tenant".
If so - where else in the English language (or anywhere for that matter) do the letters "Lieu" make a "Leff" sound ???
When did it become compulsory to refer to our soldiers...
... we have a correct way to pronounce the word, and the Army are clear about their usage.
Come on, pay attention at the back.
When did it become compulsory to refer to our soldiers...
Our soldiers - I hate the phrase. They're British soldiers. You may think of them as your soldiers, but please don't involve me.
Absolutely right! They are nothing whatever to do with me.
Absolutely right! They are nothing whatever to do with me.
You don't pay tax? ;)
d.
When did it become compulsory to refer to our soldiers...
Our soldiers - I hate the phrase. They're British soldiers. You may think of them as your soldiers, but please don't involve me.
Absolutely right! They are nothing whatever to do with me.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in english, thank a soldier.Should tell that to Mugabe!
Can I "loan" you a bike? :-\
I know I can lend you one. :)
I know I can give you the loan of one. :)
I know you can borrow one. :)
But I don't think I can loan you one. :(
And you can't loan one from me either. :hand:
Is that right? ???
And you can't loan one from me either. :hand:But can it ever be used to mean "borrow"?
Aye, I didn't know loan was acceptable as a verb, I though it had to be lend. Thanks for that.I'm not aware of it being correct to use it to mean "borrow".QuoteAnd you can't loan one from me either. :hand:But can it ever be used to mean "borrow"?
eg, " You can loan a bike for a month for free"?
borrow him your own bike
See Danish. One word for both lend & borrow, cognate with & pronounced much like loan: låne til (lend to) & låne fra (borrow from).Aye, I didn't know loan was acceptable as a verb, I though it had to be lend. Thanks for that.I'm not aware of it being correct to use it to mean "borrow".QuoteAnd you can't loan one from me either. :hand:But can it ever be used to mean "borrow"?
eg, " You can loan a bike for a month for free"?
See Danish. One word for both lend & borrow,which means that when Polonius told Laertes "neither a borrower nor a lender be", it didn't really sound nearly as good as in Shakespeare's translation.
Slightly narking Quick Crossword clue yesterday:
See sense (6,2,6)
A: Listen to reason
:facepalm:
I have just been having a flick through the Evans Cycles catalogue and found this gem "Garmin have recently announced the launch of the Edge 800 GPS, the predecessor to the popular Edge 705" ::-)
Unless the 'they' is the gender-neutral singular form.
I have just been having a flick through the Evans Cycles catalogue and found this gem "Garmin have recently announced the launch of the Edge 800 GPS, the predecessor to the popular Edge 705" ::-)
Back To The Future!
It's how the world is: don't blame the grammar.
If you treat USA as singular, what pronoun would you use for the second half of the sentence?
Is this related to my observation that Hugh Porter always says:
Italy are on the front
to indicate:
An Italian rider is on the front
?!?
[and yes, he says the same when several Italians are on the front ::-) ]
"If the USA wins the current hole, it will win the match."If you treat USA as singular, what pronoun would you use for the second half of the sentence?
"It".
My pet hate...
the "10 items or less" signs in my local Sainsbury's. >:(
I've been known to carry a marker pen around and correct them... ;D
Oddly enough, the supermarkets in France, Germany and Switzerland all say "maximum 8 items"...
Does a sludge spillage have an epicentre?
I'd suggest that it's more like a case of bloody ignorance taking away a word with a specific meaning to be a synonym for a simpler word instead, undermining understanding of a technical term, and being a vain attempt to appear more clevererer by a hack.+1
I can just about go with it, if the spill was near the bed of the river, and we're talking about the point on the surface, but that would be daft.
And it mattered.
I can just about go with it, if the spill was near the bed of the river, and we're talking about the point on the surface, but that would be daft.
Deepwater Horizon?
d.
Yeah, that would have had an epicentre significantly removed from the point of the leak.
Thinking about it, ISTR that epicentre isn't just a geological term, but a mathematical one. Euclid discussed them.
Yes, it's precisely because of that association with earthquakes that reporters use "epicentre" - never mind what it means, it heightens the impression of being part of a cataclysmic event. Nothing especially wrong with that apart from being lazy journalism.Exactly - we shouldn't be encouraging the use of overly complex language (which might be hard for some to understand), especially where the meaning is a bit suspect!
Of course, the word "centre" is more accurate, simpler and perfectly serviceable.
Exactly - we shouldn't be encouraging the use of overly complex language (which might be hard for some to understand), especially where the meaning is a bit suspect!
You can't justify this with guff about 'meaning shift', it's still bad writing. These people aren't Shakespeares, creating poetic new extensions to the language; they're just pretentious and wrong.
You can't justify this with guff about 'meaning shift', it's still bad writing. These people aren't Shakespeares, creating poetic new extensions to the language; they're just pretentious and wrong.No justification intended from me.
And was it really from an aluminum plant?
I thought American's had pronunciation problems until recently. Now I see that both my bikes have aluminum on them I realise that either they cannot spell properly or they use an alloy that is different to aluminium.
And was it really from an aluminum plant?
I thought American's had pronunciation problems until recently. Now I see that both my bikes have aluminum on them I realise that either they cannot spell properly or they use an alloy that is different to aluminium.
But the precious metal is "Platinum". I've not seen any suggestion to call it Plat-in-ium. So metal names ending "-um" rather than "-ium" isn't necessarily a USAnian thing.And was it really from an aluminum plant?
I thought American's had pronunciation problems until recently. Now I see that both my bikes have aluminum on them I realise that either they cannot spell properly or they use an alloy that is different to aluminium.
The name "aluminium" derives from its status as a base of alum. "Alum" in turn is a Latin word that literally means "bitter salt".So aluminium frames cannot be sweet handling?
Ah, sorry. Where I wrote 'you' I was meaning them! Hence:You can't justify this with guff about 'meaning shift', it's still bad writing. These people aren't Shakespeares, creating poetic new extensions to the language; they're just pretentious and wrong.No justification intended from me.
I wouldn't say that most people are stupid. I would say that for most people in most contexts the difference does not matter, if it's even evident in any way.But there's a duty to understand a word before using it. I've quite often looked up words I don't often use before putting finger to key, and found that they didn't quite mean what I thought - so I used something else.
How long before we're having to replace terms annually with new ones because their meaning has been lost? And how do you communicate when words change that fast?
How long before we're having to replace terms annually with new ones because their meaning has been lost? And how do you communicate when words change that fast?
;D ;D Genius ;D ;DHow long before we're having to replace terms annually with new ones because their meaning has been lost? And how do you communicate when words change that fast?
Festina cromulente, as they say in Latin.
In photography, for example, a macro lens means a lens that magnifies so much that the image on the film (sensor, now) is bigger than was the original object. It's come to mean any lens with a bit of a close-up function. That's fine and dandy, but now keen photographers need a new term for "macro".
"Fewer than 10 per cent of professors in the sciences are female."
-Times Eureka magazine that came with today's paper.
In photography, for example, a macro lens means a lens that magnifies so much that the image on the film (sensor, now) is bigger than was the original object. It's come to mean any lens with a bit of a close-up function. That's fine and dandy, but now keen photographers need a new term for "macro".Good example! I don't know much about photography. Mrs Cudzo's camera has what it claims to be a macro function. I'm pretty sure that it's not macro in the original sense, it's simply a close-up. But as I don't know much about the subject, I'm naturally going to take the vocabulary used by the camera manufacture, who I would presume to know what they're talking about. If they've got it wrong, they're misleading me.
Is that the same as the way that 'accident' has come to be used to mean 'blame-free' when it actually means 'unintended'?Not by everyone it hasn't, my friend - not while I'm still breathing anyway ...
Mrs Cudzo's camera has what it claims to be a macro function. I'm pretty sure that it's not macro in the original sense... I'm naturally going to take the vocabulary used by the camera manufacture, who I would presume to know what they're talking about. If they've got it wrong, they're misleading me.Precisely. I think that they are misleading you.
"Due to adverse weather the 07:00 sailing from Stornoway has been cancelled therefore there will be no 10;25 from Ullapool."
Not sure if I like the semi-colon but:
How great it is to see the proper use of 'weather' with no 'conditions' adulteration.
I am trying to deter the habits ... of cyclists all over the world.
Latin
Some people object to, say, the use of "decimate" to mean destroy on the grounds that in ancient Rome it meant to kill every 10th man; some of them are also likely to complain about so-called split infinitives, a prejudice that goes back to 19th-century Latin teachers who argued that as you can't split infinitives in Latin (they are one word) you shouldn't separate "to" from the verb in English. Others might even get upset about our alleged misuse of grammatical "case" (including cases such as dative and genitive that no longer exist in English).
As our publications are written in English, rather than Latin, do not worry about any of this even slightly.
The majority of standards of proficiency are standards necessary to
produce safe and effective practitioners on entry into the profession. We
also set a small number of standards which are linked to the entitlements
to supply, administer or prescribe medicines outlined in paragraphs 2.11 -
2.13 above. For example, there is a standard of proficiency related to
supplementary prescribing. Registrants demonstrate that they meet this
standard by successfully completing an education programme which we
approve. Approval of the programme allows us to quality assure the
programme and ensure that all registrants meet the standards that we set.
That was what did it. And these are the people who deem me competent to practise and register me. I despair.
Yesterday there was a bloke on the telly talking about the Somali taxi driver who had acted as a go-between in the negotiations to free Paul & Rachel Chandler. He used the word "dialoguing", for which he must be punished. Severely.
Yesterday there was a bloke on the telly talking about the Somali taxi driver who had acted as a go-between in the negotiations to free Paul & Rachel Chandler. He used the word "dialoguing", for which he must be punished. Severely.
Verbing weirds language, as ennysheddi know...
You're/your...
When I was wee (in the middle of the last century) if we wished to assert a state of being, we wouldn't say, "I am". We'd say, "I'm are!".
The contrary was, "I'm are not!"
Infer/imply is another one.
To too loose lose infer imply their there.
Help! I'm proofing an article about a couple - Mr & Mrs Wiggins - and the copy says "the Wiggins's then moved to Johannesburg". Should it be "Wigginses" or "Wiggins" or what?
Can't, and this problem pops up several times in the article.
Help! I'm proofing an article about a couple - Mr & Mrs Wiggins - and the copy says "the Wiggins's then moved to Johannesburg". Should it be "Wigginses" or "Wiggins" or what?
Pretty common in speech, particularly amongst people under 30 years old, and in print in the latest CTC magazine -
half a pence
Equally common among youngsters on super market tills giving change -
one pounds and one pence.
The hint is even written on the coin where it clearly says "one penny".
What about people who say "five pound"?Time-honoured. Long predates anyone alive today.
What about people who say "five pound"?
I've heard it on the lips of Geordies, & many, many, others
What about people who say "five pound"?
They don't. They say "five paaahnd".
d.
What about people who say "five pound"?
They don't. They say "five paaahnd".
d.
I've never referred to a green banknote as a 'five pounds' note...
What about people who say "five pound"?
They don't. They say "five paaahnd".
d.
I've never referred to a green banknote as a 'five pounds' note...
Help! I'm proofing an article about a couple - Mr & Mrs Wiggins - and the copy says "the Wiggins's then moved to Johannesburg". Should it be "Wigginses" or "Wiggins" or what?My 2p:
Help! I'm proofing an article about a couple - Mr & Mrs Wiggins - and the copy says "the Wiggins's then moved to Johannesburg". Should it be "Wigginses" or "Wiggins" or what?
If you have to use the plural of Wiggins, it would be "Wiggenses", as in "dresses" or "messes" being the plurals of dress and mess respectively.
Sam
Would not the Wiggins family be known as the Wigginses, not the Wiggenses? It seems a bit odd to change the spelling of their name.
Would not the Wiggins family be known as the Wigginses, not the Wiggenses? It seems a bit odd to change the spelling of their name.
Pretty common in speech, particularly amongst people under 30 years old, and in print in the latest CTC magazine -
half a pence
Equally common among youngsters on super market tills giving change -
one pounds and one pence.
The hint is even written on the coin where it clearly says "one penny".
It didn't make me cringe but did make me smile when I read in a magazine that I should "apply a volume-enhancing moose to roots".A cycling guide to York has advice to cyclists: "Do not approach horses in a manor that may frighten them."
'Slippy'. :sick: That is all.
... a manor that may frighten them."
It didn't make me cringe but did make me smile when I read in a magazine that I should "apply a volume-enhancing moose to roots".Bizarre, I always thought the moose ate the roots to increase its volume.
'Slippy'. :sick: That is all.
'Slippy'. :sick: That is all.
Absolutely. Damned silly non-word.
'Slippy'. :sick: That is all.
Absolutely. Damned silly non-word.
Although you could argue: Slippery: like a slipper; Slippy: prone to slippage.
Generally, young female shop assistants although not exclusively ,who hand me my change and say
1p
2p
3p etc,etc.
NO!
It is either ,
A penny or one pence or ,
Two pence or tuppence or,
Three pence or thruppence etc, etc .
A p is round and green and comes in a pod, can be eaten ,either raw or cooked when fresh.
My American colleagues' use of the simple past rather than the present perfect.
Did you get a ride yet?
Did you eat lunch already?
Instead of:
Have you found (someone to give you) a lift?
Have you eaten/had lunch yet?
A p is round and green and comes in a pod,Sometimes it's yellow & liquid . . . .
How now, snow plow.
Mr Griffin said: "On our approach a group of youths started throwing snowballs.
"Thankfully none of them actually hit the aircraft or the rotas because that could have been catastrophic really, it could have forced the aircraft either to crash or make a forced landing," he told BBC Radio Wales.
I like the plough spelling because it shows the similarity to the same word in Polish and (I presume, though have to admit I've forgotten) German.
My American colleagues' use of the simple past rather than the present perfect.
Did you get a ride yet?
Did you eat lunch already?
Instead of:
Have you found (someone to give you) a lift?
Have you eaten/had lunch yet?
Yes, but it's a different language, American.
Are you sure they are not saying, "Hear, hear!" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear) Rhys?
Are you sure they are not saying, "Hear, hear!" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear) Rhys?
Are you sure they are not saying, "Hear, hear!" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear) Rhys?
OK, I meant only when it's written... :P
There, there...
Why the hell are people starting to use the phrase to "go on fire" or "went on fire"?Lots of things have went on fire in Glasgow. It's an expression which is commonly understood to mean you can't prove we did it so we'll just kid on it happened spontaneously.
Things can: be on fire; be set on fire; catch light, but it can only go on fire if it travels while already in flames. >:( >:( >:(
The CTC Style Guide, received today by electronic mail.Oh dear. Perhaps the CTC needs a proofreader. Should I offer my services?
That is all.
(To be fair, parts are fine but capitalisation and punctuation in some places leave something to be desired.)
Many years ago, proofreading was part of a job I had. When you've proofread manuals on how to lay linoleum, in Norwegian, then you've proofread, laddie.The CTC Style Guide, received today by electronic mail.Oh dear. Perhaps the CTC needs a proofreader. Should I offer my services?
That is all.
(To be fair, parts are fine but capitalisation and punctuation in some places leave something to be desired.)
The CTC Style Guide, received today by electronic mail.Oh dear. Perhaps the CTC needs a proofreader. Should I offer my services?
That is all.
(To be fair, parts are fine but capitalisation and punctuation in some places leave something to be desired.)
I'm only pointing out that it's spelt tautology, because if I don't one of the 'kin yacf pedants will be along to do so.I sense some tension in this post.
I've not done that, but some of the IT manuals I've proofread* might as well have been in Norwegian, their comprehensibility was so poor. :(I often came across this problem when I was translating and proofreading/editing other people's translations. Sometimes the original document was so poorly written that it was impossible to create a decent translation.
*Seems to be the accepted term within the trade.
From http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=42446.0 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=42446.0), this: "Firstly may I say how sorry I am to hear of the recent incident and that the person involved is now making a full and speedy recovery from their injuries."
Why's that? Because they might feel well enough to sue the living arse off you? Thought so.
Retroflectives (aka scotchlite) are also not visible at any distance and any angle.
... "So," a conclusion.I don't understand why it would sound[edit] patronising. ???
Not sure when Blair started using it.
I don't understand why it would patronising. ???
... let's face it, who in the real world starts a conversation with the word "so".
And so you're back
From outer space...
As in "Is that Pest on again?"?
As in "Is that Pest on again?"?
;D
Poor chap. I think he's been taking voice coaching lessons as you can tell he is trying desperately not to let his voice be so.......O weighhhhhh over the t............oppP.
Americans are scandalled by British political cartoons.
Well-wishers have been condoling the family of Salman Taseer.
Hmmm. Firefox's spill-chucker doesn't object to the latter.
As in "Is that Pest on again?"?
;D
Poor chap. I think he's been taking voice coaching lessons as you can tell he is trying desperately not to let his voice be so.......O weighhhhhh over the t............oppP.
I understand he overcame a childhood stutter (just to make you feel guilty).
Done by a donator!Don't you mean doned? ;D
As in "Is that Pest on again?"?
;D
Poor chap. I think he's been taking voice coaching lessons as you can tell he is trying desperately not to let his voice be so.......O weighhhhhh over the t............oppP.
I understand he overcame a childhood stutter (just to make you feel guilty).
I've never really understood what peoples dislike for him is driven by.
OK his speech isn't quite the 'queens english' but it's quite understandable and he seems to know what he's talking about.
???
As in "Is that Pest on again?"?
;D
Poor chap. I think he's been taking voice coaching lessons as you can tell he is trying desperately not to let his voice be so.......O weighhhhhh over the t............oppP.
I understand he overcame a childhood stutter (just to make you feel guilty).
I've never really understood what peoples dislike for him is driven by.
If you say "a dice", EVERYONE knows what you mean (but some people might stab you)
If you say "a die", noone will stab you, but some will wonder which meaning of die (or even dye) you intended.
It's always a gamble ...
Quiz (http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/quiz.html)Trying to confuse with similes in nr. 20, I see.
I scored 20 out of 20, obviously. :smug:
d.
Now to the question of dice. I discovered – too late – that you can say dice meaning one die. I felt a bit of a clot saying die all the time, but Tom Morris, the producer, was quietly insistent. It turned out that all the contributors used dice for one die. Tom had said he would produce a die, or a dice, for the introduction in order that I could roll it.
Quiz (http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/quiz.html)Trying to confuse with similes in nr. 20, I see.
I scored 20 out of 20, obviously. :smug:
d.
20/20. :thumbsup:
of a forumfori
...shall consider my cat Geoffrey?of a forumfori...
Rejoice in the Lamb!...shall consider my cat Geoffrey?of a forumfori...
Rejoice in the Lamb!...shall consider my cat Geoffrey?of a forumfori...
"A revenue inspection is about to commence throughout the train"Did you declare any revenue?
:o
Today I saw this:
The Duke of York became King George VI, coronated in 1937
Today I saw this:
The Duke of York became King George VI, coronated in 1937
Spelling, rather than grammar but Auntie should know better.In a similar vein, my winter cycling boots are Diadora Artics (http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Apparel/Shoes/Shoes+-+Road/Diadora+Artic+Road+Shoes_DIADORA-ARTIC-ROAD.htm). They don't bend in the middle though.
Antartic is a lorry, surely?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12218170 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12218170)
... my winter cycling boots are Diadora Artics (http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Apparel/Shoes/Shoes+-+Road/Diadora+Artic+Road+Shoes_DIADORA-ARTIC-ROAD.htm). They don't bend in the middle though.
And I suppose, being Italian, they have a slightly better excuse than the BBC.
:facepalm:... my winter cycling boots are Diadora Artics (http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Apparel/Shoes/Shoes+-+Road/Diadora+Artic+Road+Shoes_DIADORA-ARTIC-ROAD.htm). They don't bend in the middle though.
And I suppose, being Italian, they have a slightly better excuse than the BBC.
Don't they carry a heavy load, though? ;)
Dog training book, from Usania. It's apparently wrong to let your dog flaunt the rules.
Dog training book, from Usania. It's apparently wrong to let your dog flaunt the rules.
The instructions with my new headphones advised against using them in "trafficated" areas.
d.
"I look better with fewer clothes on!"
Hmmm, slightly troubled by this one. Should it be "fewer clothes" or "less clothes"?
I'm inclined to go with "less" - "fewer" sounds prissy and pedantic. But neither option sounds "right".
Of course, the truth is that I look better with more clothes on, but that isn't really the issue.
d.
I don't think Wothill meant to put a space there (but I could be wrong)!QuoteRecumbents are different - most people who ride a recumbent genuinely believe they are gaining an advantage (incredible but true),<SNIP>
I doubt if many of us see it as gaining an advantage over all (up hill harder, downhill faster)
If you regard clothes as a collective noun, then I think less is OK.
I might use 'less clothing.
I might not end a sentence with a preposition...
I look best stark nekkid!
May contain traces of hyperbole...
I look best stark nekkid!I believe there is an obligatory response in these cases, including the word 'pictures'. ;D
So, do we go with strict grammar or everyday usage? To be honest, I think I prefer the latter, especially in this context.
For a confidential discussion about the role, please contact D—— C—— or I, at Green Park on 020 7000 0000.
In fact the different colours reflect the different chemical elements in our atmosphere being effected and they then interact with the discharge from the sun.
Classic. A prime example of the common false assumption that because "X & me" is sometimes wrong, it's always wrong.QuoteFor a confidential discussion about the role, please contact D—— C—— or I, at Green Park on 020 7000 0000.
Reading through a school report last night, this from the English teacher (of all people) -
XXXX has a lively intellect and, when focussed, can articulate fluent an assured responses at the highest level.
Reading through a school report last night, this from the English teacher (of all people) -
XXXX has a lively intellect and, when focussed, can articulate fluent an assured responses at the highest level.
Actually, either is acceptable, although the single s sets my teeth on edge. Makes it fo-kyuzed ;)
I've never really understood that one either.
Fuse - fused
Fuss - fussed
Focus - focused. ???
house - hice ?By jove I think he's got it!
house - hice ?By jove I think he's got it!
Always nice to hear Johnny foreigner aiming for a correct English accent, what?!
house - hice ?By jove I think he's got it!
Always nice to hear Johnny foreigner aiming for a correct English accent, what?!
If I were a bear
And big bear too
I shouldn't much care
If it froze or snew.
I shouldn't much mind
If it snowed or friz
I'd be all fur lined
With a coat like his.
A. A. LARRINGTON (retired)
goose - geese
mouse - mice
house - hice ?
goose - geese
moose - meese ?
Oh, the joy and simplicity of the English language! :D
Usage. 'Literally'.
This week I have heard it used twice, by people who should probably have known better, when its antonym, or nothing at all, should have been used. Margaret Hodge said something on Question Time about the MOD 'literally throwing money down the drain'. And Sally Bercow on the 10 O'clock Show: "If we do switch to AV MPs are going to literally have a rocket shoved up their bottom". Daily in work I hear the twenty-somethings in the team use it as an intensifier: "I was literally in at 7 o'clock". I sigh and bite my tongue.
Choose - cheese.goose - geese
mouse - mice
house - hice ?
goose - geese
moose - meese ?
Oh, the joy and simplicity of the English language! :D
Moose - meese
Mongoose - mongeese
Is Your Data Protected?
Out to Bethnal Green next, where we saw Oxford House (or Oh! these days), which was a mission house, complete with Fives court in the basement for the Eton lads who went their to provide paternalistic intervention as 'lamps in the darkness'.
goose - geese
mouse - mice
house - hice ?
goose - geese
moose - meese ?
Oh, the joy and simplicity of the English language! :D
Moose - meese
Mongoose - mongeese
Spam email:QuoteIs Your Data Protected?
Spam email:QuoteIs Your Data Protected?
If you write "Are your data protected?", then I will hate you! I can't argue with the capitalisation problems there.
"Do you have adequate data protectionmeasures implemented?"
"... is a whole nother topic."Have you actually seen this in writing? I've only come across it in speech, where it at least has a certain flow to it - the 'n' somehow helps the transition between 'whole' and 'other' - but to actually write it down is worrying.
Reading an article where instead of the author saying, "... is another topic," or, "... is a whole other topic," uses his own method, splitting up the word another. It is quite amusing.
Not grammar exactly, but if I hear the word 'enormity' misused on the BBC again, I may head down there accompanied by a* BEAR
* Clearly not teh BEAR. M. le Maire has the monopoly thereof.
I just used the word 'upliftment', but it's so damn ugly to write and say that it's probably wrong, though I can't think what the correct word would be :-[Well I can tell you it is also damn ugly to read, if that helps your decision!
your problem and GB's example could both be solved by sensible pruning:
...ment -> delete it
...dation -> de
22 years ago I started a new job, and became embroiled in a war against "isotropicity" which was widely used in my new department.
It's isotropic: it has isotropy.
22 years ago I started a new job, and became embroiled in a war against "isotropicity" which was widely used in my new department.
It's isotropic: it has isotropy.
Isn't that 'isotropism'? Just like 'tropism', shirley?
Fair enough, citoyen. It's better than wot I writ.
Upgradation.Seems to be standard Indian usage, unfortunately.
Seen it twice now (both of sub-continent origin). The Sainsbury's Local had a sign up saying that the store will be closing an hour early one evening for "Systems upgradation."
I just used the word 'upliftment', but it's so damn ugly to write and say that it's probably wrong, though I can't think what the correct word would be :-[Uplifting, probably. It's normal to use the participle as a noun in such circumstances. Similarly closed for "systems upgrading", or of course "a systems upgrade".
My wife was critically studying herself in the mirror and dispairingly cried out "I'm fat and I'm ugly! I need you to pay me a complement!"
I thought fast and replied "Well your eyesight remains excellent dear."
Indians love the longest possible form of a word, as well as having many usages which are simply different from standard UK forms. Some are quite funny to British ears - "behind the shop" comes out as "shop backside". :)Upgradation.Seems to be standard Indian usage, unfortunately.
Seen it twice now (both of sub-continent origin). The Sainsbury's Local had a sign up saying that the store will be closing an hour early one evening for "Systems upgradation."
Even if you're talking about The Disabled Avant Garde, forefront is not a verb.
Fecking pretension.
I was listening to something interesting about using nouns as verbs the other day - it was on the Guardian books podcast, I think. They pointed out that Shakespeare did it all the time - eg he used "companion" as a verb instead of "accompany".
The point is that it can be quite poetic if done creatively. Not that there's anything poetic about using "forefront" as a verb...
d.
... Not that there's anything poetic about using "forefront" as a verb...
d.
It depends on what you rhyme it with.
The first rhyme that occurred to me would have sent this thread straight into NSFW. :demon:
I know it was suggested that [$department] was going to organised for the HLC's a copy to the owner lab and a copy to the analysing lab, but it seems this set-up has yet to take place.
It never rains, but it pours, does it?
I've discovered an entirely new use of the Grocers' Apostrophe!It's to indicate that something is missing - the thing you use the spade for:
Written on a whiteboard in the lock-up at work is a list of tools that need repairing. Some spades, a rack, a hoe and then:
"A'nother spade"
I've discovered an entirely new use of the Grocers' Apostrophe!It's to indicate that something is missing - the thing you use the spade for:
Written on a whiteboard in the lock-up at work is a list of tools that need repairing. Some spades, a rack, a hoe and then:
"A'nother spade"
A hole nother spade.
:D
I Am Finding It Slow Going Reading An Article Where Every Word Starts With A Capital Letter. Why?
Source: Coefficients (http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Pages/Coefficients.htm)
Using 'so' to start sentences (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/17/origins-of-using-so.html). Grr.
Using 'so' to start sentences (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/17/origins-of-using-so.html). Grr.
Toontra agrees (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg824110#msg824110). As do I (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg824123#msg824123).
I nearly shat myself and stacked my bike into a parked car
I thought you stack things in a pile and therefore you would stack your bike on a car not into a car.
'Yeah, no...'
It is moreconfusingfun internationally:
In Slovak yes is áno and yeah is no, so no means yes, the opposite of English.
In Greek you nod your head once up or once down depending on whether that is a nod to say yes or no (and I have forgotten which one is which). To say no with a nod means you nod your head vertically not side to side. Again, the opposite of English.
'Yeah, no...'
It is moreconfusingfun internationally:
In Slovak yes is áno and yeah is no, so no means yes, the opposite of English.
In Greek you nod your head once up or once down depending on whether that is a nod to say yes or no (and I have forgotten which one is which). To say no with a nod means you nod your head vertically not side to side. Again, the opposite of English.
Greek word for 'yes' is 'ne' (ναι), which in Slavic languages is basically a negation prefix.
It is of course well known that careless talk costs lives, but the full scale of the problem is not always appreciated.
For instance, at the very moment that Arthur said, 'I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle,' a freak wormhole opened up in the fabric of the space-time continuum and carried his words far far back in time across almost infinite reaches of space to a distant galaxy where strange and warlike beings were poised on the brink of a frightful interstellar battle.
The two opposing leaders were meeting for the last time.
A dreadful silence fell across the conference table as the commander of the Vl'hurgs, resplendent in his black jewelled battle shorts, gazed levelly at the G'Gugvuntt leader squatting opposite him in a cloud of green sweet-smelling steam, and, with a million sleek and horribly beweaponed star cruisers poised to unleash electric death at his single word of command, challenged the vile creature to take back what it had said about his mother.
The creature stirred in his sickly broiling vapour, and at that very moment the words, 'I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle' drifted across the conference table.
Unfortunately, in the Vl'hurg tongue this was the most dreadful insult imaginable, and there was nothing for it but to wage terrible war for centuries.
Eventually, of course, after their galaxy had been decimated over a few thousand years, it was realised that the whole thing had been a ghastly mistake, and so the two opposing battle fleets settled their few remaining differences in order to launch a joint attack on our own galaxy---now positively identified as the source of the offending remark.
For thousands more years the mighty ships tore across the empty wastes of space and finally dived screaming on to the first planet they came across---which happened to be Earth---where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog.
Those who study the complex interplay of cause and effect in the history of the universe say that this sort of thing is going on all the time, but that we are powerless to prevent it.
'It's just life,' they say.
Whereas in India you nod your head from side to side with a vertical twist at each end to say "I'm trying to give the impression I'll do whatever you want, but I don't know what you want so I'll do it my way anyway." :D'Yeah, no...'
It is moreconfusingfun internationally:
In Slovak yes is áno and yeah is no, so no means yes, the opposite of English.
In Greek you nod your head once up or once down depending on whether that is a nod to say yes or no (and I have forgotten which one is which). To say no with a nod means you nod your head vertically not side to side. Again, the opposite of English.
Thanks for following the latest developments with the BBC. Here's a quick upsum of Wednesday's news.
Hi D.....
I try to phone you about the query below.
We have staff meet this afternoon. So I try after 2:30pm.
Regards,
D....
For the boys it is essential they bring plain swimming trunks of a length that finishes above the knee and a towel. Any boy who has hair which intrudes their eye line must also come equipped with a swimming cap to wear. Goggles are strongly recommended for both boys and...
Ah, weatherfolk are fair game are they? Right; yesterday, met office expert on Iceland:
The cloud of ash is being literally cartwheeled over to Europe by ... blah ... blah ...
Ah, weatherfolk are fair game are they? Right; yesterday, met office expert on Iceland:
The cloud of ash is being literally cartwheeled over to Europe by ... blah ... blah ...
Can anybody suggest a name for this kind of figure of speech.
Ah, weatherfolk are fair game are they? Right; yesterday, met office expert on Iceland:
The cloud of ash is being literally cartwheeled over to Europe by ... blah ... blah ...
Can anybody suggest a name for this kind of figure of speech.
There are a variety of services ...
Are or is? My logic tells me that variety is a word that groups the various things being mentioned into a single entity and therefore should be: There is a variety of services ...
Ah, weatherfolk are fair game are they? Right; yesterday, met office expert on Iceland:
The cloud of ash is being literally cartwheeled over to Europe by ... blah ... blah ...
Can anybody suggest a name for this kind of figure of speech.
I love those 'literally' expressions. It reveals a tiny mind that has just grasped that the metaphor they have just got their head around really does have some parallels with the thing it is being compared with.
My favourite though is the increasingly common "It was like literally...". One word drags the rest of the sentence into the realm of imagery while the next brings it back to reality with a sudden bump. It's like (literally) a matter-antimatter annihilation where the two words negate each other causing a little puff of verbal energy to be released into the conversation.
It means thatallchildren travelling home on a bus and those walking home have to leave by different exits.
It means thatallchildren travelling home on a bus have to leave by an exit different from that used by those who walk home.
That's a classic. Still, I suppose it's better to have culinary expertise than grammatical excellence when selling food. Unlike, this repro service (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Leicester&aq=0&sll=51.205378,-2.183189&sspn=0.081416,0.153122&g=Warminster&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Leicester,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.628947,-1.122322&spn=0.019719,0.03828&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.628855,-1.122167&panoid=qHgEA1jSlRJAxaUbc-pkkw&cbp=12,48.62,,2,3.49) I spotted in Leicester last week who offer printing of invitations for Party's. Extra points too for some gratuitous Comic Sans and comedy spelling of the firm's name.
How do you say this properly?
"I have a list of thank yous that I must go through."
Is thank yous right?
That's a classic. Still, I suppose it's better to have culinary expertise than grammatical excellence when selling food. Unlike, this repro service (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Leicester&aq=0&sll=51.205378,-2.183189&sspn=0.081416,0.153122&g=Warminster&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Leicester,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.628947,-1.122322&spn=0.019719,0.03828&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.628855,-1.122167&panoid=qHgEA1jSlRJAxaUbc-pkkw&cbp=12,48.62,,2,3.49) I spotted in Leicester last week who offer printing of invitations for Party's. Extra points too for some gratuitous Comic Sans and comedy spelling of the firm's name.
Mother asked Deirdre "Will you help your Uncle Jack off his horse?"
Lack of capitalisation can sometimes lead to problems.QuoteMother asked Deirdre "Will you help your Uncle Jack off his horse?"
Lack of capitalisation can sometimes lead to problems.QuoteMother asked Deirdre "Will you help your Uncle Jack off his horse?"
A comma, between 'Jack' and 'off', would prevent Mother being accused of being one colluding with pervy bestiality...
"the band of rain will move its way north..."
??? ???
We had a supplier try to "reach out" to us twice in the same email today. We are thinking of calling the police.
Good shout, Mr L.
d.
Good shout, Mr L.
d.
But is "shout" also not a verb? :P
Mr Larrington: "Ask" is a verb, dolt!
Grrrr!
Draft additions February 2005
colloq. (orig. Austral.) (chiefly Sport). With modifying word or phrase, as a big (also huge, etc.) ask : something which is a lot to ask of someone; something difficult to achieve or surmount.
1994 J. BIRMINGHAM He died with Felafel in his Hand (1997) viii. 177 I'd‥get him to wear the underpants consistently for six weeks on the road. (This was not a big ask given Milo's unwashed jeans-wearing record at King Street.)
For example something handmade that's found quite a lot but always in blue or green. They are all unique but a red one would be unique and unusual.
In fact, it was probably 'a big arx'
:demon:
In fact, it was probably 'a big arx'
:demon:
Oooooo that one makes my blood boil!
As does asterix instead of asterisk.
And what, pray, is a "newmonic"?
As does asterix instead of asterisk.
As for annoying usage, 'sea-change' really gets my goat. What's wrong with 'change'?
As for annoying usage, 'sea-change' really gets my goat. What's wrong with 'change'?
And another:
the pacific is an ocean, the word you want to use when talking about a certain thing is specific.
"Quantum leap" has always puzzled me. When I was learning physics as a young Mr Larrington we were taught that things at the sub-atomic level were very very small.I understood "Quantum Leap" to mean a step-change rather than a gradual transition - in that (in Physics) there isn't a stable energy level between the start and end states.
"Quantum leap" has always puzzled me.+1. A quantum leap would appear to be the smallest change possible, which is not entirely what people generally mean ;D rower40 has a point about the step change, but the step is almost immeasurably small ;D ;D
Have I objected to "A number of cyclists is expected..." yet? That number is plural. You'd say "a hundred of them are...", wouldn't you?
The point is that it is a big change within the system concerned (e.g. an atom). Hence a "big deal" - so often it is used correctly. But of course people often use it to simply mean a really big change, and are usually wrong."Quantum leap" has always puzzled me.+1. A quantum leap would appear to be the smallest change possible, which is not entirely what people generally mean ;D rower40 has a point about the step change, but the step is almost immeasurably small ;D ;D
Have I objected to "A number of cyclists is expected..." yet? That number is plural. You'd say "a hundred of them are...", wouldn't you?
Think of a number. Any number.
Are that number 6?
Thought not.
Have I objected to "A number of cyclists is expected..." yet? That number is plural. You'd say "a hundred of them are...", wouldn't you?
Think of a number.
Any number.
Are that number 6?
Thought not.
A peleton of cyclists is expected.
The point is that it is a big change within the system concerned (e.g. an atom).
The point is that it is a big change within the system concerned (e.g. an atom).
"Quantum" just means it's a sudden jump between two discontinuous fixed states, but that could be a fairly low-level energetic transition associated with an outer electron. You could imagine indexed gearing as having quantised behaviour (hopefully)...
And it should also be 'Peloton', please.Ah, I see. A bit like the rules for:
I quite like that idea. The advertising potential of finger food has barely been tapped. What next - flyers with your vol-au-vents? ;)
Collective nouns cause endless arguments: "The government are..." (seems to be preferred by the BBC), vs " The government is".Fowler (Author of "Modern English Usage") had great fun with this; it's not just the variant of English in use, but the particular GOVERNMENT! The US Government is singular, whereas the UK Government are plural. (I might have that completely the wrong way round. I'll re-post this when I next have a copy of Fowler in front of me.)
I quite like that idea. The advertising potential of finger food has barely been tapped. What next - flyers with your vol-au-vents? ;)
Perhaps this ebay seller has a similar idea...
Brompton Bike With Pannini | eBay UK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brompton-Bike-Pannini-/290583889562?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item43a826469a&clk_rvr_id=245837529874)
Collective nouns cause endless arguments: "The government are..." (seems to be preferred by the BBC), vs " The government is".Fowler (Author of "Modern English Usage") had great fun with this; it's not just the variant of English in use, but the particular GOVERNMENT! The US Government is singular, whereas the UK Government are plural. (I might have that completely the wrong way round. I'll re-post this when I next have a copy of Fowler in front of me.)
Collective nouns cause endless arguments: "The government are..." (seems to be preferred by the BBC), vs " The government is".Fowler (Author of "Modern English Usage") had great fun with this; it's not just the variant of English in use, but the particular GOVERNMENT! The US Government is singular, whereas the UK Government are plural. (I might have that completely the wrong way round. I'll re-post this when I next have a copy of Fowler in front of me.)
In my view, seems to be a general British thing. I believe I may have ranted about this before.
UK: the government are, the team are, Nasa are, etc.
US: the government is, the team is, NASA is, etc.
'Government/team' is a collective, so singular; 'ministers/player' are plural. Simple, no?
Then again, what do I know? English isn't my first language and I learned it in a former colony.
I'm with HTFB with on 'a number of'. It's the equivalent of 'some', 'many' or 'numerous' etc. And if you replace 'a number of' with one of those then the plural becomes the obvious choice.That's because the subject in the original is the number. If you replace it as you suggest, you leave the only noun as the cyclists. Thus you have gone from a singular noun (number) to a plural one (cyclists), and "is" has to become "are".
That gives you the great advantage over most of us of having actually learned it.Collective nouns cause endless arguments: "The government are..." (seems to be preferred by the BBC), vs " The government is".Fowler (Author of "Modern English Usage") had great fun with this; it's not just the variant of English in use, but the particular GOVERNMENT! The US Government is singular, whereas the UK Government are plural. (I might have that completely the wrong way round. I'll re-post this when I next have a copy of Fowler in front of me.)
In my view, seems to be a general British thing. I believe I may have ranted about this before.
UK: the government are, the team are, Nasa are, etc.
US: the government is, the team is, NASA is, etc.
'Government/team' is a collective, so singular; 'ministers/player' are plural. Simple, no?
Then again, what do I know? English isn't my first language and I learned it in a former colony.
Collective nouns cause endless arguments: "The government are..." (seems to be preferred by the BBC), vs " The government is".Fowler (Author of "Modern English Usage") had great fun with this; it's not just the variant of English in use, but the particular GOVERNMENT! The US Government is singular, whereas the UK Government are plural. (I might have that completely the wrong way round. I'll re-post this when I next have a copy of Fowler in front of me.)
In my view, seems to be a general British thing. I believe I may have ranted about this before.
UK: the government are, the team are, Nasa are, etc.
US: the government is, the team is, NASA is, etc.
'Government/team' is a collective, so singular; 'ministers/player' are plural. Simple, no?
Then again, what do I know? English isn't my first language and I learned it in a former colony.
'Government/team' is a collective, so singular; 'ministers/player' are plural. Simple, no?
'Government/team' is a collective, so singular; 'ministers/player' are plural. Simple, no?
No, I don't think it's quite as simple as that. You have to consider the sense of the noun as well as whether it's literally singular or plural.
When you use team names, especially in the context of commentary, you're using the name as a kind of shorthand*, eg: "Liverpool score against Man United" = "The players of Liverpool FC score against the players of Man United FC."
d.
*Is this an example of metonymy? I'm never quite sure.
Does Liverpool always score against ManU?
That's an entirely correct usage of the Footballers Present Tense.
"A number of ..." usually requires a plural verb. In "A number
of employees were present", it's the employees who were present, not
the number. "A number of" is just a fuzzy quantifier. ("A number
of..." may need a singular in the much rarer contexts where it does
not function as a quantifier: "A number of this magnitude requires
5 bytes to store.")
That's an entirely correct usage of the Footballers Present Tense.
Pirate: That’s right! There’s not a man on this ship what knows how to use any tense apart from the present.
Capt: That’s cos you’re pirates! And ever since pirates – begins – pirates only speaks in the present tense, does pirates! First man on this ship as uses the past or pluperfect tense dies where he stands!
Pirate 2: He wouldn’t dare!
BANG
Capt: Or a conditional… And the next one what mentions training days will be keel hauled, dragged beneath the ship til the barnacles rip open his belly and death comes as a merciful blessing, hahahaha! (http://scienceoftheinvisible.blogspot.com/2008/09/arrrr.html)
Does Liverpool always score against ManU? Sometimes? Will they in the future?
Tbh, I'm not dogmatic about one way being correct and another way being wrong. But I am a stickler for consistency...Does Liverpool always score against ManU? Sometimes? Will they in the future?
You should either use "do" in the first instance or "it" in the second.
d.
I quite like that idea. The advertising potential of finger food has barely been tapped. What next - flyers with your vol-au-vents? ;)
Perhaps this ebay seller has a similar idea...
Brompton Bike With Pannini | eBay UK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brompton-Bike-Pannini-/290583889562?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item43a826469a&clk_rvr_id=245837529874)
Best not to type your advert when you are hungry ;D
One-wheeled bikes - AAAARRGGHH!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14051314 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14051314)
Might I humbly suggest that you mean:That's an entirely correct usage of the Footballers Present Tense.Ah, like Pirate Present Tense.
;D
Nowt wrong with the grammar, thobut? </pedant>
The alternative is "hard-working families", which Cameron uses a lot (but so do others).
... taking it's use to absurd new lengths ...
... because its intended to indicate ...Ow again!
...also with a political slant...
Quote from Auntie's News Website:
<<Chris Weir says her and her husband Colin were "tickled pink" when they realised they had scooped Tuesday's jackpot.>>
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14161661 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14161661)
Quote from Auntie's News Website:
<<Chris Weir says her and her husband Colin were "tickled pink" when they realised they had scooped Tuesday's jackpot.>>
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14161661 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14161661)
If 'er was living down yer, 'er'd be perfectly c'rect.
The use of 'that' in preference to 'which'.:-[ I've been using Inglish wot she is rote for over 40 years. I still haven't got my head around this one.
The use of 'that' in preference to 'which'.:-[ I've been using Inglish wot she is rote for over 40 years. I still haven't got my head around this one.
The use of 'that' in preference to 'which'.:-[ I've been using Inglish wot she is rote for over 40 years. I still haven't got my head around this one.
Likewise :-[
In British English, writers and editors seldom observe the distinction between the two words.
I can now assume that he was an American, which means he was probably wrong.ITYM
I can now assume that he was an American; that means he was probably wrong.;D
Srsly though; I seem to remember being told it was about the difference between "qualification" and "specification".
"Help yourself to sweets from the jar which is on the top shelf" - to specify WHICH jar you can nomm from.
"Help yourself to sweets from the jar that is on the top shelf" - there's only one jar, and the useful information tells you where it is.
Quote"Help yourself to sweets from the jar which is on the top shelf" - to specify WHICH jar you can nomm from.
"Help yourself to sweets from the jar that is on the top shelf" - there's only one jar, and the useful information tells you where it is.
Yes, you were right - you've got these the wrong way round.
Think of two sentences. 'Which is the car that cut you up? and 'Is that the car which cut you up'. You could say or write, 'Which is the car which cut you up?' and 'is that the car that cut you up'. Both work as well...
but I think that English seeks to avoid using two meanings of the same word in the same sentence, as repetition is bad style.
Think of two sentences. 'Which is the car that cut you up? and 'Is that the car which cut you up'. You could say or write, 'Which is the car which cut you up?' and 'is that the car that cut you up'. Both work as well...
I know they're just examples to illustrate a point but they're rather clunky constructions. "Which car cut you up?" would be a more elegant way to avoid repetition.Quotebut I think that English seeks to avoid using two meanings of the same word in the same sentence, as repetition is bad style.
Avoiding repetition is a journalistic hang-up. It's not a rule to follow doggedly at all costs. Sometimes repetition is preferable to tortuous euphemism. Sports journalists are usually the worst offenders. Peter Crouch > the Spurs striker > the lanky frontman > the big number 9... :sick:
d.
Should this thread be "Grammar which makes you cringe", then?Yorkshire:
Maybe this is spelling or usage, not grammar.If you can work something in that is "out of order", it would fit nicely in the "Terrible Jokes Thread". :)
I was rather disappointed that the 'complimentay items' offered here were not free of charge!
the media now seems have adopted this
The media now seem to have, surely.+1
Apologies if this one has already been mentioned, but one thing that is guaranteed to make me froth at the mouth is the use of the plural for organisations - e.g. 'the government have introduced a policy' or 'the mclaren F1 team have signed a driver'. There's only one government, therefore it HAS introduced a policy.+1.
Should this thread be "Grammar which makes you cringe", then?
Apologies if this one has already been mentioned, but one thing that is guaranteed to make me froth at the mouth is the use of the plural for organisations - e.g. 'the government have introduced a policy' or 'the mclaren F1 team have signed a driver'. There's only one government, therefore it HAS introduced a policy. What makes it worse is that the media now seems have adopted this incorrect version. I've nothing against the evolution of the language but wrong is wrong.
There is no rule on this.
In fact, the BBC style guide says that BBC Radio uses one rule and BBC TV uses the opposite.
This is quite an issue for me with the work I do for a US record company.
They (I always assumed, correctly) use a singular...
Pedant. As it's a binary choice and there are two rules, there are therefore no rules. QED yourself :PThere is no rule on this.
Wrong. Because, as you say yourself...QuoteIn fact, the BBC style guide says that BBC Radio uses one rule and BBC TV uses the opposite.
...so there are clearly at least two rules. QED.
d.
I can visualise policemen looking for a criminal. I've met individual policemen, I've seen them working.
Would you say "The police are looking for the criminal" or "The police is looking for the criminal"?
Would you say "The United States are the world's richest nation" or "The United States is the world's richest nation"?*
Pedant. As it's a binary choice and there are two rules, there are therefore no rules. QED yourself :P
Your view on this matter may depend on what you consider to be the purpose of grammar.
Hmm. My experience seems similar to Drossall; breaking the rules generally makes things _harder_ to understand. Having 10 ways to spell 'bought' doesn't help anyone.
That's only because you're at the fag-end of an educational system which has (often literally) beaten in an entirely constructed and elitist 'correctness' to generations of kids. It is the same mentality that regards Scots or Geordie as 'wrong' (rather than 'wrang' ;) ) and thinks there is something good about 'received pronouciation' (as it that which is received in polite society - in other words, amongst snobs).
Thankfully, this is now changing again and we are once again recognizing English as the rich, messy thessauric stew which has made it so successful and adaptable a means of communication as well as a wonderful medium for song, poetry and prose.
Gan canny like, kidda. ;D
...people do it wrong...
Dunno ... but one thing I'd like to know is whether people debate this in other languages....people do it wrong...
According to whom? Who owns a language?
... she despaired of German young people and their lazy speech!That's interesting; in English I think of shortened versions as being the 'lazy' option. " Can't " etc
"Das ist Helens Fahrrad" (genitive)
Das ist das Fahrrad von Helen" (dative)
I think you're right. It was a truly rubbish example, but I couldn't think of a better one - I suspect, like most amateur english speakers, I'm not very aware of the rules until someone points them out! (Whereas with foreign languages, having had to learn them formally, I can remember most of the rules wot I have learned.)... But others are just convention e.g. the i before e nonsense.
I thought that these, such as your example, were made up later as a way of learning and recalling the convention, rather that it being a rule.
Double negatives.
I think it's one of those things that change because enough people do it wrong...Wrongly. Wrong is an adjective ;D
But others are just convention e.g. the i before e nonsense.
There's a recognised process whereby languages simplify themselves...
Did latin evolve into a less strict language during the Roman period?
IIRC used to mean emphasis. "Not not" was more negative than plain "Not".Double negatives.
Like wot Shakespeare and Chaucer both used.
What's always fascinated me about this is the question of where the complex languages came from? Did they just appear, complete with impossibly-complex rules? Surely languages must start simple? They can't develop from others if those have already decayed... Or was the first-ever language so hard that no-one could speak it? ;DYou're confusing inflections with complexity. A language which conveys meaning via cases is no more complex than one which uses word order, prepositions, etc, it's just different. It seems complex to you because it's not how your language works.
You're confusing inflections with complexity.I'm not sure that that addresses the comment to which I was responding though?
There's a recognised process whereby languages simplify themselves...
<<But what has happened apparently is that now the rules has changed >>
I don't think the rules have changed that much! ;) ;D
...people do it wrong...
According to whom? Who owns a language?
I think it's one of those things that change because enough people do it wrong...Wrongly. Wrong is an adjective ;D
...people do it wrong...
According to whom? Who owns a language?
I would say according to the rules. In any language there should be right and wrong, shouldn't it? Otherwise, how will we ever learn them ;D
IIRC used to mean emphasis. "Not not" was more negative than plain "Not".Double negatives.
Like wot Shakespeare and Chaucer both used.
IIRC used to mean emphasis. "Not not" was more negative than plain "Not".Double negatives.
Like wot Shakespeare and Chaucer both used.
Yes it's a hangover from Anglo Saxon. That;s why Chaucer had an excuse. In modern English though it just ends up meaning the opposite of that which was intended.
I think I'd like to modify my previous statement.You're confusing inflections with complexity.I'm not sure that that addresses the comment to which I was responding though?There's a recognised process whereby languages simplify themselves...
How about, Right is when people understand you and Wrong is when they don't?
+1. The problem with the "as long as people understand" argument is that you don't know whether they have until they act on it.
English is only my second language, but based on this I would use 'do wrong' in the same way they are giving 'go wrong' as an example. Would that be wrong? Is it a rule or convention when it comes to this?Apologies, my comment was somewhat discourteous, given the circumstances.
Ian - true, but does it justify adding to the confusion?
IIRC used to mean emphasis. "Not not" was more negative than plain "Not".Double negatives.
Like wot Shakespeare and Chaucer both used.
Yes it's a hangover from Anglo Saxon. That;s why Chaucer had an excuse. In modern English though it just ends up meaning the opposite of that which was intended.
Except in practice it doesn't. Everyone understands what is meant.
I'm not trying to add to confusion->
I don't think pcolbeck's example is a litotes.
Have I mentioned Birmingham City Council's war on possessive apostrophes? Grr.Lewisham Council have handed over the library to our management but we still have all their council-branded signs up. The main room is titled "Adult's Library." I think this love and accuracy of learning may indicate why the council have shut libraries first in their budget cuts.
You know what I could never wrap my head around, being foreign and all, is the whole 'mind' business. For instance:I think the latter is an Americanism
Would you mind closing the window?
No (and closes the window)
Would you mind closing the window?
Sure (in reality yes, but still closes the window)
I guess it's just not common for the English to mind, is it? :D You have to say, I do mind, don't you?
I can't seem to grasp this. :)
I tend to favour "Yes, but I'll do it anyway." See above re: answering 'or' questions.Are you known as a "team player" at work, Kim?
Not so much making me cringe, but completely open to ambiguity and misunderstanding, are questions asked using a negative:
"You're not going out dressed like that?"
What does the answer "Yes" mean? "Yes, I'm not" or "Yes I am"?
Google (the verb) makes me cringe. Am I the only one?
google, v. intr. Of the ball: to have a ‘googly’ break and swerve. Of the bowler; to bowl a googly or googlies; also (trans.), to give a googly break to (a ball).
1907 Badminton Mag. Sept. 289 The googlies that do not google.
That's just an etiquette/manners issue. I think.
Would you mind closing the window?
Really means:
Please close the window, even if you object slightly, but if it is a big problem, don't.
This issue has been escalated to our highest priority level in recent days and we have found the cause of the issue and measures are already underway to resolve it. We are also looking at ways to recover the transactions that are impacted.
I'm also sick of this euphemistic use of "issue". Recently I've noticed "situation" being used in the same way.
"Houston, we have an issue."
I'm also sick of this euphemistic use of "issue".
So if they'd agree that there was a problem needing fixing, there would be no issue?I'm also sick of this euphemistic use of "issue".
I don't think this sense of issue is euphemistic. It's sense 11 in the OED, "a point or matter in contention between two parties". This sense is legal in origin, with the earliest citations given from the 14th century.
When I have subscribed to a magazine I have had 13 issues each year but no problems.
hi rachel
here are the menu's think there all spelt correct
But it's often used not to mean a point in contention but simply something that has gone wrong.
The spill covered a total area of dozens of kilometres
So if they'd agree that there was a problem needing fixing, there would be no issue?
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae7/fboab/328832_269064233111381_100000234190268_1088191_3486934_o.jpg)And I bet you (if it is you) enjoyed that correction, didn't you? Even if it didn't quite make you froth with joy.
Getting your sharpie out.
Sometimes it'sirresistableirresistiblesomething you can't resist.
And I bet you (if it is you) enjoyed that correction, didn't you?
But only if there was an issue.So if they'd agree that there was a problem needing fixing, there would be no issue?
If you have a problem with your contraception, there might be issue. In at least two senses of the word.
d.
In that sense, it makes me cringe even though I think what she says is correct in the context that she says it.
Radio 3 have just had a revamp of their programmes so ....
it grates every time I hear ...... it.
I'm not really objecting. I realise that what she's saying is an abbreviation of "This programme is called 'Essential Classics'" but that the words used juxtaposes a singular verb and plural noun which in their own right make a totally ungrammatical sentence. I'm just commenting that my grammar-trained brane shouts "No!" when it detects such a juxtaposition.Stones, windows?
In that sense, it makes me cringe even though I think what she says is correct in the context that she says it.
UKBA. Please correct your naturalisation guidance and the form. "Seperate" is wrong.Perhaps the writer should be deported for lack of English.
/nailsdownablackboard
Date: 25-9-2011Defiled medical treatment, in the context I think that's quite nice.
Dear Friend,
My Name is Mr. Luiz Fernando, I am from Portugal, but born and breath up in Russia, I have been
diagnosed with cancer. It has defiled all forms of medical treatment, and right now I have only about
a few months to live, according to medical experts. I have not particularly lived my life so well, as I never
really cared for anyone (not even myself) but my business.
Though I was very rich, I was never generous, I was always hostile to people and only focused on my
business as that was the only thing I cared for. But now I regret all this as I now know that there is more
to life than just wanting to have or make all the money in the world. I believe when God gives me a
second chance to come to this world I would live my life a different way from how I have lived it.
I Would want to have a Personal and Trusthworthy Relationship with you, as I intend and willing to
empower the change of ownership for the transfer of the sum of (USD 11,200,680.00) to your Account
or personal possession for further Investment and Charity Disbursement to the Less Priveledge, Haiti
Earthquake Victims, Homeless People, therefore, I appeal to you to write me via my mail
address: luizFernado@w.cn
N/B:Kindly note that 40% of this funds must go to victims of Haiti Earthquake , 55% to other Charity
Organizations around the World and 5% for your effort and time.
God be with you.
Mr. Luiz Fernando.
The ellipsis, like the apostrophe, is used to indicate an omission ...
pause … unfinished … incomplete … trailing off … aposiopesis
Doesn't it depend on context? Surely it's ok on message boards... or personal emails, but not on much else?...
It'd never occurred to me that it could be used in the same way as an exclamation mark.
poor grammar or signwriter's error? You choose. Nice bit of Sharpie action though.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lRaCdtpHknw/TnpITlVZruI/AAAAAAAAC7k/BE1iULdDy6I/s720/IMGP7309.JPG)
I have a similar one referring to life jackets. Jackson Civil Engineering, I'm looking at you.
Just seen a notice in a local take-away, informing them that an energy company has "de-energised" their gas supply. I know how it feels; man, I'm tired!
People, especially irritating pedants who should know better, who think 'noone' is a word.
He was replaced by one Peter Cowap, a.k.a. "afternoone".
1 - "The opinions of all racing drivers are completely worthless" - J. Clarkson.
1 - "The opinions of all racing drivers are completely worthless" - J. Clarkson.
Hmmm. The opinions of all J. Clarksons are completely worthless. Therefore, we are not informed of the worth, or otherwise, of the opinions of racing drivers.
That link just opens this same page in another window.
???
That looks like a case of English as a second language to me,no shit!
Written by the team behind Stiller's Night At The Museum, Fred is the boss of a firm called Rentaghost…
Original Sin (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0218922/) will be on TV tonight (http://programy.pravda.sk/tvDetail.aspx?id=42535&from=markiza&when=201110250005) so I read the write up to help me decide whether I want to watch it.
IMDB quote: ... Jolie ... is a site to have and behold.
The verb gift has only the first of these senses, so it gives7 a more precise message.
What does the panel think of "Gift-aid your donation ..."?
What does the panel think ofIt certainly works better than give your donation aids.
"Gift-aid your donation ... "
?
Many of my favourite verbs are noun-based. Bolloxed. Fucked. Glassed. Pursed. Trollied. Knifed. Gunned.
There is no noun that cannot be verbed.
Nouning verbs is something we all do everyday, surely? A verb that has been nouned is known as a gerund.There is no noun that cannot be verbed.
"Noun" must come pretty close. Have you ever heard it "verbed" (what a horrible word that is, too)?
Blackburn to give away bike lights to London commuters on Monday LDN.in/MFaHUe (via @cyclingweekly)
Well, suppose for example you found yourself in the ladies' changing room when it was empty, or on a different occasion when it was full of naked women. One of those could be considered the wrong place at the right time, the other the wrong place at the wrong time. Which is which, I leave up to you to decide…
d.
It's not nothing to do with correctness.No, it probably isn't.
What about leaving out "against" as in eg "they are protesting the government spending cuts", it just sounds wrong to my ears.+1. Absolutely horrible.
Well, suppose for example you found yourself in the ladies' changing room when it was empty, or on a different occasion when it was full of naked women. One of those could be considered the wrong place at the right time, the other the wrong place at the wrong time.
What about leaving out "against" as in eg "they are protesting the government spending cuts", it just sounds wrong to my ears.+1. Absolutely horrible.
I don't entirely agree. In British English nowadays, I would say protest meaning forcefully affirm survives only in stock phrases such as protest your innocence or good intentions. Apart from that, we have protest against and where we might once have used protest, we would either use a different verb such as claim, or we would use "protest that you are innocent". We are exposed to so much USAnian English in movies and TV that the traditional use of protest in other contexts has become ambiguous. I agree it's a surprise, and rather jarring, to see the US usage in a UK paper though.What about leaving out "against" as in eg "they are protesting the government spending cuts", it just sounds wrong to my ears.+1. Absolutely horrible.
This is the USAnian usage, and it's a bit of a surprise to see it in the Guardian.
Totally confusing - in British English protest means forcefully affirming and US English it means the opposite. So in Britain you can protest your innocence, or protest (that) capitalism is shite, so you would protest against something. In the US you would protest capitalism - so much for common language.
Ha! You've managed to come up with an interesting, possibly correct (depending on your proclivities) context) but it was hard work, wasn't it?! Mostly, the phrase isn't used like that, I think.
Technically not grammar as such, but as this does seem to have gone OT in this direction before...I use "persisting" as a (an?) euphemism for the participle in "It's P*ssing it down". And it's still doing it.
It seems to be becoming more and more common to say "it is persisting" when it's raining. I believe they mean "precipitating", as they have made no mention of rain prior to this. I have yet to correct anyone, but it's driving me just slightly insane ;)
I also thought 'persisting' was used by those too coy to say 'pissing'.
"An euphemism"? Is one having a giraffe?Well, there was I thinking that words what begun wiv a vowel took "an" as their indefinite article, so I hedged my bets with both 'a' and 'an', with the second in brackets and a question mark! ;)
It does amuse me when posh peeps drop their aitches and claim when they do it it is right and when cockneys do it it is wrong.
Historical and hysterical nonsense.
In this way new words are created - a new-for-me-ism!
The pronounced H in hotel and similar words derived from French is quite new in that there are probably still speakers alive who, correctly, wouldn't pronounce it.
And adders were nadders, nicknames were eeknames, and doubtless many others.In this way new words are created - a new-for-me-ism!
Funny you should say that - oranges were originally noranges, doncha know (from the Spanish "naranja").
I wonder if "new phemism" counts as an eggcorn (http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/category/english/not-an-eggcorn/)? Hmm, maybe not.
d.
The pronounced H in hotel and similar words derived from French is quite new in that there are probably still speakers alive who, correctly, wouldn't pronounce it.
It's only correct if you're speaking French. We'd be in a right old pickle if we decided we had to pronounce all the English words that are derived from a foreign language (all of them?) in the manner of that language. Hotel, when spoken in English is not French, it is English, and to not pronounce the aitch is just poncy.
This list will require to be amended...
Yes, but the pronunciation of initial H in words which came into English via French has never been consistent...
We could either drop the H from all words we got via French where the H was silent when we got it, or pronounce it in all cases where it was originally...
can never keep a straight face when I hear an American pronounce "herbs" like the French herbes.
We could either drop the H from all words we got via French where the H was silent when we got it, or pronounce it in all cases where it was originally, i.e. every one.That line of argument is the error. English does not appear to submit to such logic. In trying to change it to make one thing consistent, you usually create another inconsistency somewhere else.
Quotecan never keep a straight face when I hear an American pronounce "herbs" like the French herbes.
Me too! For some reason it's sounds far more quaint and affected than just about any other american usage. I wonder why this is?
I can never keep a straight face when I hear an American pronounce "herbs" like the French herbes.
Meanwhile a group of MPs called for a public consultation on how to reduce the harms from smoking in cars.
The group concluded that the government should conduct a systematic review of the evidence of the harms of cmoking in cars and the effects on adults as well as children.
Mr Shkaplerov and fellow Russian Anatoly Ivanishin, 42, are making their first maiden space voyages
And what's wrong with that?
So, do you start a sentence with "So"?So you heard that too? (Note correct use of "so". ;D)
So you don't like it?And what's wrong with that?
Aargh!!!!
QuoteMeanwhile a group of MPs called for a public consultation on how to reduce the harms from smoking in cars.
This doesn't make me cringe, but it does make me wonder how it came about. Is it a simple typo, a careless editing from "harmful effects" or is it a deliberate use of harm as a countable noun?
Ealle synt uncre hearmas gewrecene [all our harms are avenged]
Ten thousand harms, more than the ills I know,
My idleness doth hatch.
So, do you start a sentence with "So"?
Lafeu. So, my good window of lattice, fare thee well; thy casement I need not open, for I look through thee.
Thyreus. So, haply, are they friends to Antony.
First Senator. So, your opinion is, Aufidius, / That they of Rome are ent'red in our counsels / And know how we proceed.
So I don't see how you can in good conscience object to this sense of the word.I don't object, in fact I'm quite keen on counting uncountable nouns! But I'm still not convinced that's actually what was happening in my example.
Working with the unemployed, as I do (and soon to become one of them) I am not very optimistic when I see that they've written "looked in paper: nufink!" :facepalm:
When I comes across paragraphs that start with but or and it seems wrong to me. Has the language progressed while I haven't or it grammatically incorrect?
And with these words he hastily left the room, and Elizabeth heard him the next moment open the front door and quit the house.
...
But when the gentlemen entered, Jane was no longer the first object.
And how should Dorothea not marry?
...
But now Celia was really startled at the suspicion which had darted into her mind.
And yet my thoughts were idle; not intent on the calamity that weighed upon my heart, but idly loitering near it.
...
But my mother made no answer, except to thank her, and Peggotty went running on in her own fashion.
Funny you should say that - oranges were originally noranges, doncha know (from the Spanish "naranja").And adders were nadders, nicknames were eeknames, and doubtless many others.
Though I thought oranges were named after the town in the south of France. Maybe not.
c.1300, from O.Fr. orenge (12c.), from M.L. pomum de orenge, from It. arancia, originally narancia (Venetian naranza), alteration of Arabic naranj, from Pers. narang, from Skt. naranga-s "orange tree," of uncertain origin. Loss of initial n- probably due to confusion with definite article (e.g. une narange, una narancia),
When I comes across paragraphs that start with but or and it seems wrong to me. Has the language progressed while I haven't or it grammatically incorrect?
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
...
2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
You are a mine of information, Gareth.
...OK, your chance to make me look stupid(er); how do you search for text on Proj Guten?!?
Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/) for public domain literature; the British National Corpus (http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/) for spoken language; and many others. For your question, Project Gutenberg made the most sense, since the other resources make it hard or impossible to search for words at the start of a paragraph.
OK, your chance to make me look stupid(er); how do you search for text on Proj Guten?!?
Officials at the Department for Transport have produced a 1,500-word report which details ministers' pet grammatical hates in remarkable detail.
The guidance sent to civil servants and MPs lists the particular linguistic errors which infuriate Justine Greening, the Transport Secretary, and her fellow transport ministers.
From the brains behind Shameless, say hello to Mia (Chloë Sevigny) a contract killer who’s already weird life is about to get a whole lot weirder.
Hmm, either would work...
What you've got to ask yourself is: who or what is the subject of the opening clause?
Perhaps oddly, I don't find myself concerned by that at all.
It's one of those things which is wrong when you think about it, but is understood automatically ... it's obvious that the sentence refers to a new film or TV series in which she stars.
Write some nonsense that doesn't actually mean anything in English and most people won't even notice.
Is it nonsense though?
I don't consider it unintelligible.
That's because you've made an assumption about what the writer means. Which is fine. But it shouldn't be your job as a reader to have to make such an assumption.
d.
After being held for three weeks, it turned out that the American extradition request was based on a fraudster who had stolen Mr Bond's identity.
Unless you're reading poetry.
All I'll say is that when it comes to poetry, I generally don't bother guessing what the writer means. My brain is far too prosaic.
d.
Here's an example from the Economist (spotted and discussed by Geoff Pullum (http://spotted and discussed by Geoff Pullum)):QuoteAfter being held for three weeks, it turned out that the American extradition request was based on a fraudster who had stolen Mr Bond's identity.
In fact, am I right in thinking that the reference is not resolved (grammatically) at all? That is, none of the explicit options are Mr Bond himself. The possibilities are (in order); the request, a fraudster (a weak possibility), and Mr Bond's identity.
See the "Language Log" blog for a detailed analysis by Geoff Pullum. (http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1799)
The more you exercise your common sense rather than your syntactic sense when figuring out what a subjectless non-finite clause adjunct must mean, the less you will notice them
The thing that, for me, makes the sentence under discussion poor is not the use of the 'dangler' per se but that you are led to the wrong conclusion.
My favorite dangler, from among an anonymous peer reviewer's comments on a manuscript: "Although generally very clear and well written, the first sentence of the introduction is grandiose and out of place."
John was shot five times during a fight. After nearly bleeding to death on the street, the suspect was charged with first-degree assault.
The thing that, for me, makes the sentence under discussion poor is not the use of the 'dangler' per se but that you are led to the wrong conclusion.
??? But this is precisely the reason dangling modifiers are best avoided - it's not just a case of pedantically following the rules for the rules' sake, it's about preventing such misunderstandings.
My first thought was that Mia is from the brains behind Shameless. (She is the first noun that we get to, and it's a factually feasible interpretation).QuoteFrom the brains behind Shameless, say hello to Mia (Chloë Sevigny) a contract killer who’s already weird life is about to get a whole lot weirder.
In fact, I'm going to let it go.That's the spirit!
Many years ago, when learning to drive, my father was "instructing" me while we made our way to Cornwall down a deserted A30 at 3 am. He was fast asleep.
Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne are aware how toxic the issue of providing funds to help the eurozone is when Britain is not a member of the euro could be.Makes me shudder rather than cringe.
QuoteMr Cameron and Mr Osborne are aware how toxic the issue of providing funds to help the eurozone is when Britain is not a member of the euro could be.Makes me shudder rather than cringe.
It's rather like that game where you randomly re-order the words in a sentence and see if anyone can still make sense of it.
Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne are aware how toxic the issue of providing funds to help the eurozone is when Britain is not a member of the euro could be.
Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne are aware how toxic the issue of providing funds to help the eurozone is.
Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne are aware how toxic the issue of providing funds to help the eurozone is when Britain is not a member of the euro.
Mr Vann, from Evesham, Worcestershire, began the project after his wife Mary died in September last year so he could drive in a cancer charity run.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075047/Great-granddad-transforms-mobility-scooter-Lady-Penelopes-Roller-Thunderbirds.html#ixzz1hCGFNYHe
I'm sat in the middle of an outbreak of Wiki disease!You would if you'd only ever read one book, and didn't know any others existed.
It's not difficult: A wiki is a user-editable website. Wikipedia is a website that uses a wiki to build a community-sourced encyclopaedia.
You wouldn't say "According to book...." would you? :facepalm:
You would if you'd only ever read one book, and didn't know any others existed.
There was a notice of too many unsuccessful attempts to access your account from different
computer server. We at Santander was left with no option than to block access pending
confirmation of your identity
From 'Santander UK plc':Looks like a phising expedition to me!QuoteThere was a notice of too many unsuccessful attempts to access your account from different
computer server. We at Santander was left with no option than to block access pending
confirmation of your identity
On Sherlock last night, he used "I" where the strict Roolz of grammar required him to use "me".
(Sorry, I can't remember the context, but it really made me jump, as he's normally so precise.)
On Sherlock last night, he used "I" where the strict Roolz of grammar required him to use "me".
I enjoy things like "Wolf snatches photo award" and "Student suspended over girl in room"."Crash blossoms"?
Whole grain goodness weaved together...
Begone, superfluous gots!
I just received an email asking me whether "I'm a women who..."
Waterstone's are becoming Waterstones. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this one yet. Does this mean that a till belonging to Waterstones is now Waterstones' till ?
Aren't they closing lots of branches? That should turn them into Waterpebbles.
It's okay Cudz, he's taking his ballWhereas, in Lancashire, Grammar is one's Mum's Mum. So I've heard.hometo India. He'll be reet.
And that, lads and lasses, is what we in Yorkshire call Grammar.
Tesco's is a funny one. Whereas there was a Mr Sainsbury, and a partnership of Messrs Marks and Spencer, there never was a Mr Tesco whose shops we visit.
Oh, how I loved writing Messrs. Though I could have written misters as Mrs to mess with the messers! Or the blades...
Tesco's is a funny one. Whereas there was a Mr Sainsbury, and a partnership of Messrs Marks and Spencer, there never was a Mr Tesco whose shops we visit.
Oh, how I loved writing Messrs. Though I could have written misters as Mrs to mess with the messers! Or the blades...
I have always thought that 'Tesco' was derived from Tessa Cohen.
<the Kolars> were found battered to death by their son, a serving Police Officer
Well I will now be cracking out that little fact about Tescos whereever I go.
I cannot STAND bad grammer - there/their/they're particularly makes me want to take a big pen to it, or just to the face of whoever wrote it...
This thread affects quite an effect on the readers thereof. The affect/effect distinction seems to pass many by.Affect is very frequently a noun in psychiatry, where depressed patients might be described as having a flattened affect.
You can effect a change. You can affect a change. You can change an effect but you cannot change an affect. Affect is never a noun.
http://ventolin.org/2012/01/grammer_man-who-the-fuck-is-this-nigga-and-why-u-comin-at-me-like-that-hoeassnigga/
This thread affects quite an effect on the readers thereof. The affect/effect distinction seems to pass many by.
You can effect a change. You can affect a change. You can change an effect but you cannot change an affect. Affect is never a noun.
You're suggesting a whole sub-tribe of intelligent educated professionals have absorbed some poor grammar and they are now actively promoting it? ;DNot uncommon, sadly.
But a great many technical words which need to be used for precision."Eventuate" was one I heard recently. There are others, but I do try to forget them!
But a great many technical words which need to be used for precision.
http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/01/fumblerules-of-grammar.html:thumbsup:
[OK - backtracking a bit to the posts that started this ... ]This thread affects quite an effect on the readers thereof. The affect/effect distinction seems to pass many by.
You can effect a change. You can affect a change. You can change an effect but you cannot change an affect. Affect is never a noun.
It is to a psychiatrist.
"He has a depressed affect" is how the mind state and appearance of a depressed man would be described.
Have you tried our poncy bread with soup ... "to give a really indulgent eat." Thanks for that one Mr Tesco.
Things usually lie unused for a thousand years for a reason.:thumbsup: ;D
Things usually lie unused for a thousand years for a reason.:thumbsup: ;D
I don't think the first citation would have been the last. I don't have access to OED but I doubt that the usage has been unused for 1000 years. Gareth?
A BBC reporter has just said that if Greece defaults on its loans, it could "spread contagion" throughout the Eurozone.
I used to have to teach it to junior school children
A BBC reporter has just said that if Greece defaults on its loans, it could "spread contagion" throughout the Eurozone.
The OED has this as sense 4a, "fig. Hurtful, defiling, or corrupting contact; infecting influence." Citations include Chaucer and Gibbon.I used to have to teach it to junior school children
I'm surprised by this: did you really have no choice in the matter? Who or what prevented you from choosing something better?
Today I read an example of Punctuation Mattering:
What is a "retiral"?
It's the first time I've heard it and I'm OLD. But I'm not Scots, though of Scots (and Welsh) descent. I wonder if any Scots could tell us if it's common?
It's the first time I've heard it and I'm OLD. But I'm not Scots, though of Scots (and Welsh) descent. I wonder if any Scots could tell us if it's common?
I worked for 9 years for HMCE, which had loads of Scots working there and I never heard the word "retiral".
Chambers dictionary is a good point of reference for things like this - it takes a liberal approach to spelling and dialect (hence it's the dictionary of choice for crossword compilers and Scrabble players). Plus it's Scottish. I don't have my copy to hand but I wouldn't be surprised if "retiral" were in it.
d.
Following up stories on The Times' safety campaign, I did enjoy the comment in this story from a councillor (http://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/archive/2012/02/07/news_wimbledon/9514813.Bollard_to_blame_for_recent_crashes__residents_claim/), who apparently has a white plastic car with keep left markings on it.
Councillor David Dean ... said the council needed to remove the bollard, which protects pedestrians standing on a traffic island.
Coun Dean said: “It was exactly the same colour and make as my car and so I got a nasty shock when I saw it.
...but in this ever-changing world in which we live in...
Which reminds me:Quote from: Paul McCartney...but in this ever-changing world in which we live in...
Oh dear.
Which reminds me:Quote from: Paul McCartney...but in this ever-changing world in which we live in...
Oh dear.
Which reminds me:Quote from: Paul McCartney...but in this ever-changing world in which we live in...
Oh dear.
Yes, I thought of that too. It's the "of" that really kills it though.
D. your cringe is absolutely justified but I want to re-iterate my defence of Pauly:
What he actually wrote (and sings) is "But if this ever-changing world in which we're living makes you give in and cry," Correct English. I'm always telling my pupils to beware of lyric sites. They're not official and frequently wrong! That said, I grew up in the lo-fi era and thought "All Shook Up" was "All Sugar" for some time!
Peter
d.
OK. I forgive Mr McCartney for his lyric-writing (but not his diction, the Frog Chorus or Mull of Fucking Kintyre).
OK. I forgive Mr McCartney for his lyric-writing (but not his diction, the Frog Chorus or Mull of Fucking Kintyre).
What he actually wrote (and sings) is "But if this ever-changing world in which we're living makes you give in and cry," Correct English.
That Mirror caption is truly awful though.
d.
If we were "strict" about redundancy, most poetry and most lyrics would fail, I think. I know that, as a lover of words and a crossword buff, you know this, too! Which is why you said, "strictly,"!
If we were "strict" about redundancy, most poetry and most lyrics would fail, I think. I know that, as a lover of words and a crossword buff, you know this, too! Which is why you said, "strictly,"!
Indeed. Most poetry is pretty much redundant. ;)
d.
If we were "strict" about redundancy, most poetry and most lyrics would fail, I think. I know that, as a lover of words and a crossword buff, you know this, too! Which is why you said, "strictly,"!
Indeed. Most poetry is pretty much redundant. ;)
d.
Brings new meaning to the statement "She goes like a ..."I am sick of hearing people ... describing a previous conversion, that they "goes to 'er..", then "she goes to me....". etc., etc.
Although I believe that for some years it has been like, not go, eg. I was like, "Where're you goin'?" and he was like, "Nowhere."
Not sure I'd go so far as to say this one makes me cringe but it always jars slightly:
"from whence"
I've recently finished reading Pickwick Papers and in that book, Dickens makes this error quite often. Though not consistently, which leads me to wonder if it's really him or the editor.
d.
Not grammar as such but it looked wrong.
A blackboard outside a house offering "Planted planters"
We must stand firm, d! It's crossed the line into "use"; it will never be acceptable, except by The McGarrigles and possibly Dickens!
With so many older sources using whence as we use where, is it possible that its meaning has changed over time from where to from where?
Given that the ‘From whence’ barricade has been well-and-truly overrun, does anyone fancy raising defences to protect us from ‘Reverse back’ - ‘I reversed my car back into the road’ - and ‘Repeat again’ - ‘could you repeat that again?’ (unless that thing has already been repeated once, of course)?
Given that the ‘From whence’ barricade has been well-and-truly overrun, does anyone fancy raising defences to protect us from ‘Reverse back’ - ‘I reversed my car back into the road’ - and ‘Repeat again’ - ‘could you repeat that again?’ (unless that thing has already been repeated once, of course)?The answer to your 'Reverse' example is contained within your (bracketed) answer to the 2nd.
Given that the ‘From whence’ barricade has been well-and-truly overrun, does anyone fancy raising defences to protect us from ‘Reverse back’ - ‘I reversed my car back into the road’ - and ‘Repeat again’ - ‘could you repeat that again?’ (unless that thing has already been repeated once, of course)?
the first is the ony one that seems to make sense
the first is the ony one that seems to make sense
Except it doesn't. Phrasal verbs are mostly nonsensical.
It makes sense in the sense(!) that the speed is coming DOWN. Whereas it's hard to see what is coming UP - unless it's a wall!
What about this one?Slow Up is towards London. Slow Down is away from London.
Slow down/slow up Anyone any idea how the latter came about? I use both, haphazardly, though the first is the ony one that seems to make sense.
Back is redundant here, surely, Ian?*We say "pull up" to mean stop, and I think there are other "... up"s meaning stop, but I can't recall them right now!
What about this one?
Slow down/slow up Anyone any idea how the latter came about? I use both, haphazardly, though the first is the ony one that seems to make sense.
*ETA unless it's a quotation from a policeman's notebook!
Oh, do let up! You're not going to convince us, so you might as well give up.Back is redundant here, surely, Ian?*We say "pull up" to mean stop, and I think there are other "... up"s meaning stop, but I can't recall them right now!
What about this one?
Slow down/slow up Anyone any idea how the latter came about? I use both, haphazardly, though the first is the ony one that seems to make sense.
*ETA unless it's a quotation from a policeman's notebook!
BTW are you referring to
ETA the armed Basque separatist group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_%28disambiguation%29)?
Doesn't pull up come from controlling the reins of a horse? </nonrider>
to pull up 3. a. trans. To draw (a horse's reins) tight, as a means of stopping; to cause (a horse, or horse-drawn vehicle) to stop by doing this; to bring to a halt.
1623 in R. F. Williams Birch's Court & Times James I (1848) (modernized text) II. 392 A man, thinking nothing, pulled up his coach, and so made the horse start a little.
Maybe equestrianism gave us "fed up" too?
Phrasal verbs are mostly nonsensical.Which, together with the huge range of them, must make them a nightmare for non-native learners. You can fill in or fill out a form but probably not fill up one or just fill one; whereas you can just print a document if you're being economical, rather than going to the effort of printing it out or off. Hitting on an idea and hitting on a person are quite different, and if you hit on someone you may be lucky enough to hit it off with him/her as well. Etc etc. How do foreigners manage?
"Fed up" comes from falconry. If your hunting bird isn't hungry, it'll sit sulking in a tree-top rather than chasing rabbits.
"Fed up" comes from falconry. If your hunting bird isn't hungry, it'll sit sulking in a tree-top rather than chasing rabbits.
Bluff!
While we're on (not in) the subject: how come we might do something on Tuesday but in July?
Also, what's the opposite of putting on [clothes]? And why?
Just guessing here, but in July because of a choice of days but that still doesn't explain on Tuesday.There needs to be some preposition there, and it's consistent with other usages.
I think prepositions are mostly random once they get away from their literal "place" meanings.
Headline in local paper, Pulman's View: "Pair is freed from a lift".
Also, what's the opposite of putting on [clothes]? And why?
Also, what's the opposite of putting on [clothes]? And why?
I don't know the answer to that. I do know that I'm supposed to go to a naturist meeting tonight but I can't go because I've got too much on.
The ambiguity allows a choice between putting it off and taking it off. Which will you do?
Also, what's the opposite of putting on [clothes]? And why?
I don't know the answer to that. I do know that I'm supposed to go to a naturist meeting tonight but I can't go because I've got too much on.
I'm an utter novice, but German makes it even harder, cos the noun changes case according to the preposition (accusative/dative I think). So it's swings and roundabouts.I think prepositions are mostly random once they get away from their literal "place" meanings.
Exactly, but English is (I think) unique in coupling them with certain verbs to make new and random meanings for no apparent reason. Unfortunately for forriners, they just have to be learned. Or ignored.
... in Polish you go "to" a town but "on" a village!
"Fed up" comes from falconry. If your hunting bird isn't hungry, it'll sit sulking in a tree-top rather than chasing rabbits.
Bluff!
I read it in Last Chance To See by Douglas Adams and Mark Carwardine. And they wouldn't tell porkies in a (comparatively) serious bok :D
lolz...Well look at that I never expected to see that on here I made that !!!!!
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg612/scaled.php?tn=0&server=612&filename=88006711.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
I've just found this English language school http://www.edgwareacademy.co.uk/ (http://www.edgwareacademy.co.uk/). There's loads of cringeworthy grammar on their home page. Oh dear!
Any English course London based academies offer is certainly matchless with courses offered by their counterparts in other cities. Edgware Academy is the best example for this.
London and other popular cities are full of these schools, known in the trade as mushroom schools (because they grow like mushrooms in the summer holiday season).I've just found this English language school http://www.edgwareacademy.co.uk/ (http://www.edgwareacademy.co.uk/). There's loads of cringeworthy grammar on their home page. Oh dear!
Gosh!QuoteAny English course London based academies offer is certainly matchless with courses offered by their counterparts in other cities. Edgware Academy is the best example for this.
London and other popular cities are full of these schools, known in the trade as mushroom schools (because they grow like mushrooms in the summer holiday season).I've just found this English language school http://www.edgwareacademy.co.uk/ (http://www.edgwareacademy.co.uk/). There's loads of cringeworthy grammar on their home page. Oh dear!
Gosh!QuoteAny English course London based academies offer is certainly matchless with courses offered by their counterparts in other cities. Edgware Academy is the best example for this.
I just heard some twonk on Radio 4 talking a bout a 'one pence' reduction in fuel duty.
I just heard some twonk on Radio 4 talking a bout a 'one pence' reduction in fuel duty.
1652 in A. Lewis & J. R. Newhall Hist. Lynn (1865) ii. 211 Mr Auditer, pay to Joseph Armeteg fouer pound sevene shillings one pence.
1981 J. Sullivan Only Fools & Horses (1999) I. 1st Ser. Episode 1. 13 You dozy little twonk Rodney
Maybe equestrianism gave us "fed up" too?
"Fed up" comes from falconry. If your hunting bird isn't hungry, it'll sit sulking in a tree-top rather than chasing rabbits.
I have just heard a previously normal chap us the word "webinar" :sick:
He's going off the roof...
"having a smug-in" :D
Not sure I'd go so far as to say this one makes me cringe but it always jars slightly:
"from whence"
I've recently finished reading Pickwick Papers and in that book, Dickens makes this error quite often. Though not consistently, which leads me to wonder if it's really him or the editor.
d.
... or the characters' error?
Not long before the 2012 Formula One season kicks off and then we'll be subjected once again to abject cretinism...
... and "Rosberg is pitting to have his front nose changed".Maybe they don't mean the car.
No, this is the big question mark ?. What you're referring to is the "big question". And how many noses has Rosberg's car got?
In NHS Wards under the direction of high performing ward leaders, experienced 40% less drug errors
A consortia in the Midlands...
Sheffield a achieved a 7% greater reduction in CVD death rates in its deprived communities
What might decision this mean for your practice?
@IanH:
Could I interest you in "Neobadisms" ?
Are bacteria, like data and media, to be considered singular now? There was a woman on the radio this morning talking about how some babies in some hospital were found to have "a bacteria" on their skin.That depends upon what your criteria is.
d.
..."Rosberg is pitting to have his front nose changed"....
And how many noses has Rosberg's car got? I think you'll find there's just the one. At the front.
"Front forks". On this very forum. Please, just don't, eh?
Quote"Front forks". On this very forum. Please, just don't, eh?
Err...do you mean "forks" is wrong?
And how manynosespairs of forks hasRosberg's cara bike got? I think you'll find there's just the one. At the front.
Quote"Front forks". On this very forum. Please, just don't, eh?
Err...do you mean "forks" is wrong?
*very best Paddington Bear hard stare*And how manynosespairs of forks hasRosberg's cara bike got? I think you'll find there's just the one. At the front.
Quote"Front forks". On this very forum. Please, just don't, eh?
Err...do you mean "forks" is wrong?
*very best Paddington Bear hard stare*And how manynosespairs of forks hasRosberg's cara bike got? I think you'll find there's just the one. At the front.
So has my bike, it's got a pair of forks at the front.
Quote"Front forks". On this very forum. Please, just don't, eh?
Err...do you mean "forks" is wrong?
*very best Paddington Bear hard stare*And how manynosespairs of forks hasRosberg's cara bike got? I think you'll find there's just the one. At the front.
So has my bike, it's got a pair of forks at the front.
Mine's got a fork with two blades.
Oh. You've got one of those.Quote"Front forks". On this very forum. Please, just don't, eh?
Err...do you mean "forks" is wrong?
*very best Paddington Bear hard stare*And how manynosespairs of forks hasRosberg's cara bike got? I think you'll find there's just the one. At the front.
So has my bike, it's got a pair of forks at the front.
Mine's got a fork with two blades.
Those forks on my bike also has two fork blades.
Are bacteria, like data and media, to be considered singular now? There was a woman on the radio this morning talking about how some babies in some hospital were found to have "a bacteria" on their skin.
d.
I suspect Citoyen would like me to say bacterium here, but yes, in most scientifc uses, the term 'bacteria' is used for 'bacterium', except when refering to an individual cell. The concept of bacteria being singular is 'difficult'.
I don't want to be too harsh either - it was an "as live" report from the hospital and put together on the hoof, so she wouldn't have had much time to refine her prose.Well quite! A lot of people here will jump to criticise someone giving possibly their first ever live media interview, as if they are critiquing a piece of coursework. Get some perspective folks.
Are bacteria, like data and media, to be considered singular now? There was a woman on the radio this morning talking about how some babies in some hospital were found to have "a bacteria" on their skin.That depends upon what your criteria is.
d.
'Front forks' is correct. You'll find mentions of 'rear forks' in old writing about bikes.
What a strange phenomena.
A phenomenon. Many phenomena. I remember learning this when Sir Clement Freud correctly challenged a contestant on Just a Minute.
If your frame has wishbone-type seatstays then they, too, fork.'Front forks' is correct. You'll find mentions of 'rear forks' in old writing about bikes.
Nope, or rather only colloquially. 'Forks' is short for fork blades, of which there is a pair at the front. At the rear you do have two pairs of tubes meeting at the dropouts.
Edit: and I'm feeling terribly pedantic pointing this out.
2nd edit: but I still think I'm right.
If your frame has wishbone-type seatstays then they, too, fork.'Front forks' is correct. You'll find mentions of 'rear forks' in old writing about bikes.
Nope, or rather only colloquially. 'Forks' is short for fork blades, of which there is a pair at the front. At the rear you do have two pairs of tubes meeting at the dropouts.
Edit: and I'm feeling terribly pedantic pointing this out.
2nd edit: but I still think I'm right.
I've just had a quick look at some UK books and mags from the 50s to 80s. They all use "forks" when talking about the forks on one bike.Absolutely my recollection. I can't for the life of me work out where "fork" has come from. Possibly the USA, but I've no evidence for that.
Forks is correct, I believe.
Excited about my new advert which is out today for @HolidayInnUKIreland! Hope the Nutritionist see's that I had fruit for breakfast ;)
'Front forks' is correct. You'll find mentions of 'rear forks' in old writing about bikes.
Nope, or rather only colloquially. 'Forks' is short for fork blades, of which there is a pair at the front. At the rear you do have two pairs of tubes meeting at the dropouts.
Edit: and I'm feeling terribly pedantic pointing this out.
2nd edit: but I still think I'm right.
The local rock group down the street is trying hard to learn their songs...
One I'd forgotten until my iPod reminded me of it yesterday...Quote from: Coffin & KingThe local rock group down the street is trying hard to learn their songs...
This is what happens when you have a pop group made up of both English and American members.
d.
One I'd forgotten until my iPod reminded me of it yesterday...I spend my life fiddling with this kind of sentence as I work for an American record company.Quote from: Coffin & KingThe local rock group down the street is trying hard to learn their songs...
This is what happens when you have a pop group made up of both English and American members.
d.
The local rock group down the street is trying hard to learn their songs...
Helen, I'm relieved that two banjo albums seem to have gone missing!Good point.
One I'd forgotten until my iPod reminded me of it yesterday...Quote from: Coffin & KingThe local rock group down the street is trying hard to learn their songs...
This is what happens when you have a pop group made up of both English and American members.
d.
Goffin and King, that'll be. (Gerry Goffin and Carole King). Sorry to be super-pedantical
QuoteThe local rock group down the street is trying hard to learn their songs...
The songs could be written by different band-members (i.e. a plural group).
But the band tries to learn them together, as an entity. QED :P
One I'd forgotten until my iPod reminded me of it yesterday...Quote from: Coffin & KingThe local rock group down the street is trying hard to learn their songs...
This is what happens when you have a pop group made up of both English and American members.
d.
Goffin and King, that'll be. (Gerry Goffin and Carole King). Sorry to be super-pedantical
Argh! Damn autocorrect! :(
d.
"The child was too small to know their own address" for instance.
In this example, is this like we have in mainland Europe where their is the third person you not the second person you, which means it could be plural or just formal singular?
There's a little cardboard chart hanging up in the kitchen explaining the three settings. It says that setting it to 85 degrees "saves up to 15% less energy"Bzzzt. Sorry Arch, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with their grammar. ;)
Um no. It either uses less energy, or it saves more. Saving less energy is not generally a selling point...
I had to turn round and go back to check whether I'd really seen it.If you live there, do you have to use the road sign rendition?
I had to turn round and go back to check whether I'd really seen it.If you live there, do you have to use the road sign rendition?
Is it round the back of a greengrocer's?
For me, it's the widespread use of "... upto X%!" that grates the most.
I guess you see that alot. I notice that many commonly paired words are now being written as one, perhaps it is language development, just as to day became to-day and now we write today.
Noone has any standards anymore.
I guess you see that alot. I notice that many commonly paired words are now being written as one, perhaps it is language development, just as to day became to-day and now we write today.
Noone has any standards anymore.
He never did. Them Hermits were rubbish.
Then there was the "Author's Notes" section in which the syllable "ind" had been replaced throughout with "notes" ???
The word is sliver not slither.Yes, that's been a popular one for about a year now. Another common one, usually on find a house type programmes, is where the presenter invites the people to wonder around. I wander what could be meant?
Seen at Uni today.That's another USAnian habit. An apostrophe isn't entirely unreasonable there as there are missing letters (as PC is an abbreviation) but it is considered poor style in English English.
(http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx30/Auntie_Helen/bd93dd4d.jpg)
This is English we're talking about and you want consistency? :DAn apostrophe isn't entirely unreasonable there as there are missing letters (as PC is an abbreviation) ...
Should it not be consistent, ie. P'C's?
Even aside from the irony of marketing Adnams as local to BSE, home of Greene King...
It's amazing how much they sell, given how rubbish beer snobs claim it is....
When we were in Scotland a couple of weeks ago the most common ale in the pubs we visited was Old Speckled Hen.I suspect that's because Greene King ate Belhaven...
It's amazing how much they sell, given how rubbish beer snobs claim it is....
Rebels in Tai Rifaat have to make their own grenades, and have only small arms
Caption beneath photo in today's Times:On the plus side, they can make the grenades to a spec that suits their small arms; mass-produced ones might not be as suitable.QuoteRebels in Tai Rifaat have to make their own grenades, and have only small arms
OK, it's not grammar, it's maths, but Johnnie Walker has just introduced a segment by saying,
'...Billy Bragg was born in Barking in 1957 and was a teenager throughout the seventies...' :facepalm:
Definitely somewhat jarring, but I think technically correct...at least I can't think of a better way to put it!Last Sunday of every month
Definitely somewhat jarring, but I think technically correct...at least I can't think of a better way to put it!
Subject: You're chance for Olympic Games tickets - Buy now
To: mattc@pedant.com
From: London 2012 Ticketing <marketing@tickets.london2012.com>
...
If I Was by Midge Ure. I've just used it in Tune Association, and realised it still grates.;D
Last Sunday of every month?
A beauty...Fillings? Who wants little bits of shaved metal in their paganini?
(http://www.zaribor.com/raz/pics/pans.jpg)
Our local is called the Red Cow. It was taken over a couple of years ago by a couple who'd never run a pub before and they've had a tough time, but they're happily paying someone to help them with marketing and promotion stuff and it's driving me absolutely mental.
As an example of the evidence I'll use in court after I've burnt the place to the ground, they're having a music festival this weekend - lovely - except it's not a music festival, it's a 'moosic' festival, with 'incredi-bull' bands under one 'hoof', for people feeling 'socia-bull' who want an 'udderly' special day. They dont have a weekly pub quiz, it's 'moo-niversity challenge', they dont do a newsletter it's a 'moosletter' and you can follow them heifery day on facebook or twitter.
Swear to god, I'm going to torch the place.
Our local is called the Red Cow. It was taken over a couple of years ago by a couple who'd never run a pub before and they've had a tough time, but they're happily paying someone to help them with marketing and promotion stuff and it's driving me absolutely mental.
As an example of the evidence I'll use in court after I've burnt the place to the ground, they're having a music festival this weekend - lovely - except it's not a music festival, it's a 'moosic' festival, with 'incredi-bull' bands under one 'hoof', for people feeling 'socia-bull' who want an 'udderly' special day. They dont have a weekly pub quiz, it's 'moo-niversity challenge', they dont do a newsletter it's a 'moosletter' and you can follow them heifery day on facebook or twitter.
Swear to god, I'm going to torch the place.
What's your beef? I think it's veally good. If you had a steak in the business, you'd milk it for all it was worth.
Half a mile under Mont St Michel, Normandy, Adrian De Vere’s biological scientists and Lucifer’s dark Cabal Wizards release a weaponised toxin to decimate over a third of the earth’s population.
Our local is called the Red Cow. It was taken over a couple of years ago by a couple who'd never run a pub before and they've had a tough time, but they're happily paying someone to help them with marketing and promotion stuff and it's driving me absolutely mental.
As an example of the evidence I'll use in court after I've burnt the place to the ground, they're having a music festival this weekend - lovely - except it's not a music festival, it's a 'moosic' festival, with 'incredi-bull' bands under one 'hoof', for people feeling 'socia-bull' who want an 'udderly' special day. They dont have a weekly pub quiz, it's 'moo-niversity challenge', they dont do a newsletter it's a 'moosletter' and you can follow them heifery day on facebook or twitter.
Swear to god, I'm going to torch the place.
What's your beef? I think it's veally good. If you had a steak in the business, you'd milk it for all it was worth.
You!! Outside! Now! (i bloody knew someone would, and had my suspicions about who it might be..)
Should be 'while' ;)
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg254/scaled.php?server=254&filename=themallsign13may2012sma.jpg&res=landing)It's Anglicised (or should that be Britannicised?) A true Americanism would be "thru". ;)
American usage of "through" seen on a sign in the road in front of Buckingham Palace.
He moved around her and went to his truck. He started preparing her car to be towed, doing technical things with wenches, and hooks...
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg254/scaled.php?server=254&filename=themallsign13may2012sma.jpg&res=landing)
American usage of "through" seen on a sign in the road in front of Buckingham Palace.
As this is the "grammar" thread, I think I'm allowed to point out the lack of grammar defects in the passage. (or indeed grammer defects).Woman has broken down at the side of the road, tow truck man arrives:
And there was me thinking that if this woman has broken down at the side of the road she needs a counsellor, not a tow truck man. But that wasn't the grammer you were pointing out, was it, Helen? Silly me!
Helen's is part of a more elite group - typos that are not spellos or grammos, but lead to an amusing unintended meaning. [Listeners send lots of great ones to R4 News Quiz.]
American usage of "through" seen on a sign in the road in front of Buckingham Palace.
American use of "through" seen on a sign in the road in front of Buckingham Palace - unless you're American, possibly!
7
a. The established or customary manner of using a language; the way in which an item of vocabulary, syntax, or grammar is normally used, esp. by a specified group or in a particular domain or region.
c1400 (1380) Chaucer tr. Boethius De Consol. Philos. (BL Add. 10340) (1868) iv. pr. vii. l. 4184 Wilt þou‥þat I proche a litel to þe wordes of þe poeple so it seme nat to hem þat I be ouer moche departid as fro þe vsage of man kynde?
1572 J. Bridges tr. R. Gwalther Hundred, Threescore & Fiftene Homelyes xxx. 220 Thys worde generation, according to the vsage of the Hebrues, is taken as well for the age of a man, as for his posteritie.
1697 D. Defoe Ess. Projects 236 The Voice of this Society should be sufficient Authority for the Usage of Words.
1700 E. Howard Remarks New Philos. Des-Cartes ii. 135 Vulgar usage of Words is, and will be more practicably Retain'd, by the generality of Mankind, than any Concise, or Philosophical Language of the Schools.
1785 W. Paley Moral & Polit. Philos. iii. 158 All senses of all words are founded upon usage, and nothing else.
1806 W. Cruise Digest Laws Eng. Real Prop. VI. 367 To make words stand for ideas, in opposition to the sense which usage had put upon them.
a1831 Encycl. Metrop. I. 132/1 When we speak of nouns and verbs, we only conform to the established usage.
1875 W. D. Whitney Life & Growth of Lang. xii. 231 As to the common name by which they shall be called, usage is very diverse.
1937 S. F. Armstrong Brit. Grasses (ed. 3) x. 207 Its old common English name was ‘Ray-grass’, but in general usage the word became corrupted to Rie-grass and so to Rye-grass.
1967 Adv. in Immunol. 7 277 At the present time it is generally agreed that correct usage includes the following terms.
2005 S. Elmes Talking for Brit. ii. 45 (Gloss.), ‘My lover’ is Bristol usage, but also found quite widely in the West Country.
b. An instance of such language use; a word, phrase, construction, etc., used in a particular or characteristic way by a group, in a region, etc.
1799 Monthly Rev. June 141 When general practice has established any given manner of writing or uttering a word, this usage, even if inconsistent with analogy or internal etymology, ought perhaps to be considered as the binding law.
1833 Penny Cycl. I. 449/1 For other American usages which are somewhat peculiar, the reader may refer to the following words in Webster: to wagon (waggon), [etc.].
1895 H. Rashdall Univ. Europe in Middle Ages II. ii. xii. §9. 558 At Cambridge‥the more usual name was Hospicium or Hostel—not the only instance in which a Parisian usage has been preserved more faithfully at Cambridge than at Oxford.
1930 G. B. Johnson in B. A. Botkin Treasury Southern Folklore (1949) iv. iii. 697 Ax, ask. Not a Negroism, but a usage which was once good English.
1968 G. Jones Hist. Vikings iii. iv. 245 Similarly they translate Liudprand's Nordmanni as Normans, meaning Northmen, Scandinavians, a customary Russian usage.
2005 J. Kozol Shame of Nation v. 115 The term‥is ‘front-loading children,’ a usage that appears to have originated in the world of capital investment.
U.S. Up to (a date, a number, a specified item, etc.) inclusively, up to the end of, up to and including, to, until; often correlative to from.
1798 T. Holcroft Jrnl. 4 Aug. in Mem. (1816) III. 31 Continued the opera through scene 9, Act 3.
1930 H. Brown (title) Rabelais in English literature through Sterne.
1932 Atlantic Monthly May 538 Mr. Heffernan was mayor for four years, from 1927 through 1931.
1942 M. Kraitchik Math. Recreations vi. 130 Poisson calculated this probability, taking into account the cards dealt in the first hand. His result does not differ through the third decimal place.
1950 H. Craig Hist. Eng. Lit. 250 Spenser treats of England from the Reformation through the reign of Queen Elizabeth.
1967 N.Y. Times (Internat. Ed.) 11 Feb. 1/6 At a background briefing early in November, the American command made available infiltration figures covering the year through Sept. 30 and a rough estimate for October.
1971 Physics Bull. Dec. 738/1 In the review copy pages 1469 through 1472 are already loose which does not say too much for the quality of the binding.
1977 Time 8 Aug. 19/3 We will continue to govern through the end of our term.
1981 L. Deighton XPD xliii. 342 A‥notice stating that deliveries were only accepted between eight and eleven Monday through Friday.
thru: now used informally as a reformed spelling and abbreviation (chiefly) in N. Amer.
QuoteHe moved around her and went to his truck. He started preparing her car to be towed, doing technical things with wenches, and hooks...
I don't mind "signage" when its referring to a general class of things but if it's particular then "signs" is better. So "we need to design some signage for the motorway system" against "we need to install thirty stop signs" .
I don't mind "signage" when its referring to a general class of things but if it's particular then "signs" is better. So "we need to design some signage for the motorway system" against "we need to install thirty stop signs" .
pc, I agree you can just about make a case for that (just about!) but what irks me is an exhortation to "follow the signage" or "the regulations are clearly dsplayed on the signage" and so on. It's an example of people trying to make something sound more impressive or technical when there is no need and perfectly adequate language already exists.
h., I didn't say it was wrong, per se, although the references you cite refer, in the main, to a habit of language rather than to the equivalence of use with usage. I'm not being a pedant, merely posting in the spirit of the thread title, because it makes me cringe!
Another I can't stand is "signage" for signs. How about you?
Cheers
Peter
In general, using "more impressive" language is to be deplored, I agree.I don't mind "signage" when its referring to a general class of things but if it's particular then "signs" is better. So "we need to design some signage for the motorway system" against "we need to install thirty stop signs" .
pc, I agree you can just about make a case for that (just about!) but what irks me is an exhortation to "follow the signage" or "the regulations are clearly dsplayed on the signage" and so on. It's an example of people trying to make something sound more impressive or technical when there is no need and perfectly adequate language already exists.
(and by association the dangerising of cycling):o
Wow just awesome love it! Wow you can actually see it's tiny eye's..
"Signage" sounds like a made up and unnecessary word to my ears, whereas "usage" in regards to language is well established and sounds perfectly normal, at least to me."Componentry" where "components" would do? I accept a subtle difference, but Plain English wins every time.
However I can't stand "utilise" and "utilisation", when "use" means the same thing exactly.
Meanwhile:In the context, I think it was a pretty good word. I can't think of any other single word that could be used to give the same meaning, "making something appear to be dangerous".(and by association the dangerising of cycling):o
I just heard an American on TV use the word 'burglarise'.
Or 'burgle' as we say in English.
Here's a t-shirt for you.
http://www.shotdeadinthehead.com/product_view.aspx?pid=4398
Warning, contains some words.
Are you sure you never use Americanisms?
Are you sure you never use Americanisms?
Forsooth, I trust not.
;)
I don't mind the French using different words, since they speak French, and I borrow many words from them. But Americans claim to speak English....
Actually, my main beef is that Burglarize uses more syllables than is necessary, and reminds me of people saying "yourself" when they mean "you".
Did they ever export Rab C. Nesbitt to America? A lot of people in England thought its appeal would have been widened with the use of subtitles ;D It took me a fair few programmes to work out what "the malky" is.Shirley that was written with the assumption that most viewers wouldn't understand most of it? A bit like Rowley Birkin QC.
... assuming it is a word, that is.It might not have been before and it might not catch on, but it's a word in that sentence. David Martin wordised it.
... assuming [dangerise] is a word, that is.
But the thread is about what makes you cringe and if 52% of the "English" found in books makes me cringe then it fits the bill.
"Dangerise" is a good word. Its awkwardness draws attention to the weaseliness of those who do it.I think it draws attention to the writer's awkwardness.
"Dangerise" is a good word. Its awkwardness draws attention to the weaseliness of those who do it.I think it draws attention to the writer's awkwardness.
(Oh, and Deano's post is pure bumtersquatch. )
power outage for power failure. Must have come up already?
power outage for power failure. Must have come up already?
power outage for power failure. Must have come up already?
power outage for power failure. Must have come up already?
(http://books.google.com/ngrams/chart?content=power%20outage%2Cpower%20failure%2Cpower%20cut&corpus=0&smoothing=3&year_start=1950&year_end=2008)
Yes, but there are three lines on the graph....
The graph is from Google Ngram Viewer (http://books.google.com/ngrams)....
Utility Weekly sounds like a periodical for everyday cyclists. :thumbsup:
"due to an earlier accident" . It appears in most traffic reports ."Early" is an adjective as well as an adverb. ("The Early bird...") So "Earlier" is a comparative adjective, just as "Earliest" is a superlative adjective. So I'm completely OK with "earlier accient".
"Earlier" has ben morphed into an adjective. It just sounds wrong (to me ) and yet we know what is meant.
"due to an earlier accident" . It appears in most traffic reports ."Early" is an adjective as well as an adverb. ("The Early bird...") So "Earlier" is a comparative adjective, just as "Earliest" is a superlative adjective. So I'm completely OK with "earlier accient".
"Earlier" has ben morphed into an adjective. It just sounds wrong (to me ) and yet we know what is meant.
"Due to an earlier accident". It appears in most traffic reports. "Earlier" has been morphed into an adjective. It just sounds wrong (to me) and yet we know what is meant.
... was was ...<OT>Reminds me of the old challenge to use the same word consecutively, as many times as possible, in a sentence that still makes reasonable sense. Intervening punctuation is allowed, but not other words. For example, the dance "can-can" would be two instances of "can".</OT>
... was was ...<OT>Reminds me of the old challenge to use the same word consecutively, as many times as possible, in a sentence that still makes reasonable sense. Intervening punctuation is allowed, but not other words. For example, the dance "can-can" would be two instances of "can".</OT>(click to show/hide)
I like the German sentence 'Ich will in baden Baden-Baden baden'One too many badens there, surely?
That would have to be "ich will in Baden-Baden Bäder baden", so doesn't quite work.
Americans have "corn maze" which is a big FAIL compared to the beauty of "maize maze". To Americans corn=maize, to us corn=some general unidentified cereal, or wheat. The other stuff is, of course, sweetcorn.
A word that is particularly confusing is "momentarily", which to us means "for a short while" or "briefly" but to them means "in a short while", where we'd say "shortly" or "presently".
With that option (and I, too, am not sure if 'bei' would be right) it would be: "ich will bei den Bäder in Baden-Baden baden". The main problem is the word for baths is not Baden but Bäder (plural of Bad).That would have to be "ich will in Baden-Baden Bäder baden", so doesn't quite work.
How about: "Ich will bei den Bade in Baden-Baden baden." Does that work? I'm not sure off the top of my head if "bei den Bade" is grammatically correct.
d.
At this juncture feel I outpoint must, that in German the finite verb the second element in a sentence is. Only in a subordinate clause does a finite verb to the end of the clause shoved get. You can with the word-order all sorts of aboutbuggering do, but the verb comes second.;D
With that option (and I, too, am not sure if 'bei' would be right) it would be: "ich will bei den Bäder in Baden-Baden baden". The main problem is the word for baths is not Baden but Bäder (plural of Bad).That would have to be "ich will in Baden-Baden Bäder baden", so doesn't quite work.
How about: "Ich will bei den Bade in Baden-Baden baden." Does that work? I'm not sure off the top of my head if "bei den Bade" is grammatically correct.
d.
At this juncture feel I outpoint must, that in German the finite verb the second element in a sentence is. Only in a subordinate clause does a finite verb to the end of the clause shoved get. You can with the word-order all sorts of aboutbuggering do, but the verb comes second.;D
Although you're missing the second "I" in the first sentence somewhere.
A word that is particularly confusing is "momentarily", which to us means "for a short while" or "briefly" but to them means "in a short while", where we'd say "shortly" or "presently".
That reminds me. I was pretty sure I understood what people meant by "now", until I moved to south Wales. There it refers to a point of time, possibly the present, but also possibly some time in the future, and often with an added phrase to add precision e.g. "I'll do it now in a minute", "I'll do it now this afternoon", "I'll do it now tomorrow morning". "I'll do it now" on its own can mean "I'll do it after I've had this cup of tea and a biscuit, and read the paper, and done numerous other things, but it's definitely on my things to do in the fullness of time."
At this juncture feel I outpoint must, that in German the finite verb the second element in a sentence is. Only in a subordinate clause does a finite verb to the end of the clause shoved get. You can with the word-order all sorts of aboutbuggering do, but the verb comes second.
As a former resident of March I can assure you no such event exists.
In Cornwall things are done 'dreckly.I heard that one defined as "Like the Spanish 'Mañana', but without the same sense of urgency."
might be tomorrow
might be next year.
never means now
In Cornwall things are done 'dreckly.I heard that one defined as "Like the Spanish 'Mañana', but without the same sense of urgency."
might be tomorrow
might be next year.
never means now
At this juncture feel I outpoint must, that in German the finite verb the second element in a sentence is. Only in a subordinate clause does a finite verb to the end of the clause shoved get. You can with the word-order all sorts of aboutbuggering do, but the verb comes second.
Physical Health Nurse
Posted: 03/07/2012
Bradford District Care Trust
The purpose of a Physical Health Nurse is to provide a comprehensive nursing service to substance misusers across the district, working with multi disciplinary teams and services. **Applicants must be a RGN with a degree and must have experiential experience of working with substance misusers**
Pat Cash talking about people camping in Wimbledon Park overnight to get in the queue early tomorrow:
'It doesn't happen at any other grand slam tournament; that makes it a little bit more unique.'
I'm not sure whether two words quite amount to 'grammar', but "Pedestrian Footpath", even with a helpful arrow, irritates me if it doesn't make me cringe.
(It's not really a justifiable rage: anyone, anything, anybody, anyway, anyhow, anywhere, must all have begun life as two words, and anymore is not distinguishable from these---though I could have a good try. But oof! it is painful to watch new usage being forged.)
Grammar that turns me stone cold crazy:But all those words exist! And "anymore" is subtly different in meaning from "any more". I don't want any more cake. I don't like it anymore. The first is article (or quantifier or whatever you want to call it) plus adjective, the second is an adverb. I think. However, this thread is "grammar that makes you cringe" rather than "grammar that's wrong" so it's ok to say that you can't take any more "anymore" anymore.
ANYMORE. Anymore, cannot take it any more.
I think Freddy Mercury was with me on this one.
(It's not really a justifiable rage: anyone, anything, anybody, anyway, anyhow, anywhere, must all have begun life as two words, and anymore is not distinguishable from these---though I could have a good try. But oof! it is painful to watch new usage being forged.)
I'm not sure whether two words quite amount to 'grammar', but "Pedestrian Footpath", even with a helpful arrow, irritates me if it doesn't make me cringe.
What if there were two signs, one indicating a "pedestrian footpath", the other a "really exciting footpath"?
(Since you wondered it out loud... tautology is a figure of rhetoric rather than grammar, isn't it? The adjective-noun pairing is grammatically sound.)
d.
Why are the BBC reporting that Paul Tucker refuted suggestions that he was involved in LIBOR rate fixing? He may have denied it, he may have said he refutes it (and I think he did), but he has not refuted it at all.
refute, v. 5. trans. To reject (an allegation, assertion, report, etc.) as without foundation; to repudiate.You might be interested in David Stove's essay "Neutralizing success words (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f1BxO9yu1NIC&pg=PA21)", which considers the phenomenon more generally (especially knowledge used as a synonym for belief by philosophers of science).
Criticized as erroneous in usage guides in the 20th cent.
I got an email reply and this bloke thanked me for 'reaching out' to him.That's the latest one from our HR people too (together with "onboarding" which apparently means making a new staff memb er welcome and part of the team. At least they've moved on from "touching the business"
Reaching out? Thats awful.
I was tempted to reach out and poke him, in the eye.
Quote from: live.cyclingnews.comTemperatures in the early 20s, sunshine and very little wind.The word early makes me cringe, it sounds time-based. I would prefer: Temperatures in the low 20s.
And more-moreover they should have said "Today's maximum temperature will be 22 degrees Celcius." as the use of centigrade is deprecated.
And more-moreover they should have said "Today's maximum temperature will be 22 degrees Celcius." as the use of centigrade is deprecated.
"22 Celsius" surely? "Degrees" is redundant. ;)
d.
However, it really irritates me when words like "warm" and "cold" are used to describe temperatures. The weather is warm or cold. The temperature is how we measure that heat or lack of it, and appropriate adjectives are "high" and "low".
However, it really irritates me when words like "warm" and "cold" are used to describe temperatures. The weather is warm or cold. The temperature is how we measure that heat or lack of it, and appropriate adjectives are "high" and "low".
Heat is a form of energy, so it is not quantified by temperature. And neither are related to grammar.
You can be as pedantic as you like about this, it doesn't matter. Weather forecasts are about communication; a clear unambiguous message is all we need.
And more-moreover they should have said "Today's maximum temperature will be 22 degrees Celcius." as the use of centigrade is deprecated.
"22 Celsius" surely? "Degrees" is redundant. ;)
d.
Apparently not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius#Centigrade_and_Celsius). ;)
The "degree Celsius" has been the only SI unit whose full unit name contains an uppercase letter since the SI base unit for temperature, the kelvin, became the proper name in 1967 replacing the term degree Kelvin. The plural form is degrees Celsius.[17]Well, I didn't know any of that! No such thing as a degree Kelvin. Perhaps in time we will come to speak of "23 celsius" rather than "23 degrees Celsius".
The general rule of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures (BIPM) is that the numerical value always precedes the unit, and a space is always used to separate the unit from the number, e.g., "23 °C" (not "23°C" or "23° C"). Thus the value of the quantity is the product of the number and the unit, the space being regarded as a multiplication sign (just as a space between units implies multiplication). The only exceptions to this rule are for the unit symbols for degree, minute, and second for plane angle (°, ′, and ″, respectively), for which no space is left between the numerical value and the unit symbol.[18] Other languages, and various publishing houses, may follow different typographical rules.
I still think "degrees" is semantically redundant - Celsius is the name of the scale; a degree is just a unit of division of a scale. We don't talk of length, for example, in terms of "degrees metre".The degree is the unit, in the same way a metre (or a centimetre) is.
I also hate the increasingly popular "top" temperature. What's wrong with "maximum"?It's a (relatively) modernism introduced by fussy Latin-lovers who were too snobbish to use the same words as poor people. What's wrong with 'highest' or 'greatest'? ;)
The latest Arizona tunnel was discovered after state police pulled over a man who had 39 pounds of methamphetamine in his vehicle and mentioned the strip mall.Who mentioned the strip mall? The police or the man they'd stopped?
I still think "degrees" is semantically redundant - Celsius is the name of the scale; a degree is just a unit of division of a scale. We don't talk of length, for example, in terms of "degrees metre".
Quote from: live.cyclingnews.comThe peloton are ...
Is peloton an automatically plural word as scissors and trousers are or should that read: The peloton is ...?
Quote from: live.cyclingnews.comThe peloton are ...
Is peloton an automatically plural word as scissors and trousers are or should that read: The peloton is ...?
I assume the original source is British, as Brits can't grasp the concept that collective nouns are singular.
Quote from: live.cyclingnews.comThe peloton are ...
Is peloton an automatically plural word as scissors and trousers are or should that read: The peloton is ...?
I assume the original source is British, as Brits can't grasp the concept that collective nouns are singular.
The UK trend towards treating collective nouns as plural is recent.
What's wrong with "maximum"?
I still think "degrees" is semantically redundant - Celsius is the name of the scale; a degree is just a unit of division of a scale. We don't talk of length, for example, in terms of "degrees metre".The degree is the unit, in the same way a metre (or a centimetre) is.
The reason we don't name the scale when stating lengths is the lack of ambiguity.
2 Inches or
3 metres
are both entirely unambiguous.
It would also be normal to say "45 degrees" when describing an angle. The degree is the unit of measurement.
(I think it's that simple, but may have missed something!)
Well, the Americans fought a war to keep their country one;Some of them. A large minority fought to make it two.
Police revised down the death toll from 14 earlier. They said about 50 people had been shot, including the deceased.
Something which is annoying is titles where every word starts with capital when they shouldn't, eg "Journey To The End Of The Night" should be "Journey to the End of the Night".
It's very common with the downloaded titles you get when ripping a CD and you have to manually correct them.
Available in Gold (orange), Violet (purple), Sapphire (blue) and Carbon (black)Okay, it's not strictly grammar, but what the fuck is the point of using names for colours which need further description? Besides, it's not as if gold, violet, sapphire and carbon are unknown terms. Either call them fancy names or just orange, purple, etc, it's stupid to have a 'name' and a 'description'.
BBC, 'medal' is not a verb.
A member of the British olympic team was heard, on the radio this morning, to speak of her potential disappointment if she 'fails to medal.' :facepalm:
BBC, 'medal' is not a verb.
medal, v. 1. trans. To decorate or honour with a medal; to confer a medal upon as a mark of distinction. Usu. in pass. 2. intr. U.S. Sport. To win a medal.
BBC, 'medal' is not a verb.
The OED says:Quotemedal, v. 1. trans. To decorate or honour with a medal; to confer a medal upon as a mark of distinction. Usu. in pass. 2. intr. U.S. Sport. To win a medal.
with citations for sense 1 from 1822 and for sense 2 from 1966.
It may be "correct" but it still makes me (like eck) cringe and is therefore fair game for this thread, which is not "Grammar that is wrong"!
Using 'podium' as a verb makes me cringe. :-*It may be "correct" but it still makes me (like eck) cringe and is therefore fair game for this thread, which is not "Grammar that is wrong"!
But eck didn't write, "verbal medal makes me cringe" (which would be fine). He wrote "'medal' is not a verb".
This sign, which I pass every other day, is just wrong somehow - it's the two different uses of 'in'
New doctors start today. There's a #tipsfornewdocs Twitter hashtag. One suggestion:Yes. Replace ' and' with a full stop & you've saved yourself a little effort & made your meaning clear.
<<newbies starting in the ED today: dont b cocky and try and get in the gd side of the nurses. can make ur time gr8 or hell>>
I don't have the heart to suggest writing unambiguous English and using short sentences...
I've met some very nice doctors and nurses this afternoon, but whilst waiting for my appointment I saw this on the notice board:
We are breastfeeding welcome
Aren't you happy that Hoy and Wiggins have golded and Armitstead has silvered?BBC, 'medal' is not a verb.
Its not entirely the Beebs fault , this has been around a while and I think it was used at the last Olympics as well.
Lazy athletes patois moved into mainstream by the commentators picking it up from competitors and trainers possibly.
It sounds wrong to you (and me) but to others it sums up "the act or process of winning a championship or Olympic medal placing".
Winning sums up 1st place so how else would you summarise 1st , 2nd and 3rd place in one word?
Aren't you happy that Hoy and Wiggins have golded and Armitstead has silvered?
Ooh, two in a row; am I allowed this?
Quote (http://www.guitars.co.uk/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=301573#Post301573) about a picture posted on a forum: Not great quality as I don't have my camera at the moment so had to take them on my phone.
What is that thing called on a phone that enables you to take photos?
an hotel, an historic hotel ... both flat out wrong, but I often see such things published in books and online. Who are these editors who allow such nonsense? You could have an 'otel if it was spoken colloquially, but an hotel? No. I'm not having that. :hand:
Is it not because we have borrowed those words from les Français, qui ne prononcent pas la lettre ache?Could be, but it's still wrong. If it's written, you pronounce the "h" (when reading in your head). And while I'm at it setting the world to rights, it's "aitch", not "haitch".
Is it not because we have borrowed those words from les Français, qui ne prononcent pas la lettre ache?You mean like hospital?
Obey, or I'll start in with "an herb", "an hospital", etc.But if you're a USAian you would say "an herb" as for some unfathomable reason you pronounce it "erb"
There's a recent change in English English to pronouncing the 'H' in more words. 'An hotel' was the only acceptable version until the 1960s at least.Nope. May I quote Henry Watson Fowler (1858-1933)? He said an was "formerly usual before an accented syllable beginning with h," citing an historian, an hotel, an hysterical scene, an hereditary title and an habitual offender. He continued: "But now that the h in such words is pronounced the distinction has become anomalous and will no doubt disappear in time."
It will likely also...
This is something that massively gets up my nose.QuoteIt will likely also...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19342994
Is it incorrect grammar, or is it just clumsy? Or is it just me?
However, I note TimO OTP uses "likely" for "probably" all the time so it is clearly crossing the Atlantic, although perhaps only amongst rocket scientists.
... simply grates in the same way that "legos" does for more than one lego brick.
Lego is the company. It makes Lego bricks. Legos to me implies mulitple companies. Lego bricks sounds like multiple Lego pieces, brick shaped or not. Colloquially I hear, "We've got some Lego you can borrow." I think of Lego like sand, there are so many pieces that we treat it as a non-countable item.
Oay, the penny drops. Or the cent or dime, I wonder how Americans say they now understand.
(If you didn't like broccoli, which would be a better way of putting it: "I don't like broccoli" or "broccoli is not a food"?)
Two separate lawyers this morning, two separate occurrences of "with whom he was living with."(http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/CornellFlag.jpg)
I'm sorry to hear that; I suppose it makes me one of those to whom the "priggishly pedantic" label applies.I wouldn't worry - you're in good company on this thread. :thumbsup:
The building collapsed into the river Credit: ITV Border
I'm sorry to hear that; I suppose it makes me one of those to whom the "priggishly pedantic" label applies.
The river Credit: cash flow.If a house in Crediton is repossessed does that make it Debiton? :D
I often cringe when I see "whom", even when it is used correctly
ALAN PARTRIDGE: Now, Simon, you are a Fellow of Oxford University, and you're a child prodigy. As a child genius what do you do, what do you actually do in the day?
SIMON FISHER: Well I don't exactly do, I, I, I am, I, I see each day as a sort of gift that is to be unwrapped, which I do in my own unique way.
ALAN: Well of course you, you are very unique.
SIMON: One cannot have gradations of uniqueness, one either is or is not unique.
ALAN: Right. You, you know, you're right, you're right. I mean, I mean you couldn't be more right.
SIMON: Well, one is either right or not right.
ALAN: Well, you are, you're right, um, and so am I. Now, John Fisher...
JOHN FISHER: Yes.
ALAN: ...or Simon's dad, as you are more commonly known, um, Simon is obviously a lot of fun, I can see that, I see that in his little quips, but, erm, when did you first realise that Simon was abnormal?
JOHN: Uh, gifted, you mean.
ALAN: Abnormally gifted.
JOHN: Well, it's when Simon was about 14 months old, um, I remember looking at him there in his cot, and, um, I said to him, uh, "Who does Daddy love, Simon? Who? Who?", and guess what Simon said?
ALAN: What?
SIMON: "Whom does Daddy love? Whom? Whom?"
How things move on - reading that last bit, I can't help hearing the voice of Stewie in Family Guy ...Quote from: Knowing Me, Knowing You (BBC Radio 4)...
JOHN: Well, it's when Simon was about 14 months old, um, I remember looking at him there in his cot, and, um, I said to him, uh, "Who does Daddy love, Simon? Who? Who?", and guess what Simon said?
ALAN: What?
SIMON: "Whom does Daddy love? Whom? Whom?"
I would have used a full stop in your sentence quoted above...So might I, had I not been responding to your preceding message regarding the use of "whom", and semi-colons.
I would have used a full stop in your sentence quoted above...So might I, had I not been responding to your preceding message regarding the use of "whom", and semi-colons.
The river Credit: cash flow.If a house in Crediton is repossessed does that make it Debiton? :D
Given that the old place was brought down by the "Smileys War", if YACF ever falls (as opposed to fading away) it could well start withOne wag once said that recent US foreign policy could be explained on the basis that they had been late for the last two world wars, and were planning on being right on time for the next. Any suggestion that my contributions to this thread can be explained on the basis that I was late for the Smileys War will be deeply resented.
"The Provocative Semi-Colon Incident"
"My bad."
Time to load the shotgun on that one.
supersonic hearingIt's not at all clear whether they actually mean guinea pigs can hear frequencies above the range humans can, or just that they have sharp hearing.
From a leaflet about taking care of guinea pigs:Quotesupersonic hearingIt's not at all clear whether they actually mean guinea pigs can hear frequencies above the range humans can, or just that they have sharp hearing.
From a leaflet about taking care of guinea pigs:It just means they can hear faster than sound. Simples!Quotesupersonic hearingIt's not at all clear whether they actually mean guinea pigs can hear frequencies above the range humans can, or just that they have sharp hearing.
Teeth and claws that keep growing, supersonic hearing and a keen sense of smell are all part of his standard equipment - pretty impressive for a small furry animal!I expect it means "very keen hearing" but they quite likely do have ultrasonic hearing as well. Though of course if they can hear at those frequencies, they're not ultrasonic for a guinea pig... :)
From a leaflet about taking care of guinea pigs:Quotesupersonic hearingIt's not at all clear whether they actually mean guinea pigs can hear frequencies above the range humans can, or just that they have sharp hearing.
supersonic adj. 1. Designating sound waves or vibrations with a frequency above the range of human hearing (i.e. greater than 20 kilohertz).
supersonic adj. 3. colloq. b. Excellent, wonderful, admirable, very exciting.
If the authors were born before 1932, I'll let them off.
If the authors were born before 1932, I'll let them off.
The OED's citations for sense 1 span the range 1919–2009, so it's clearly still a current sense of the word. If you search for supersonic frequency you'll see that the sense is widespread.
I wonder how many citations are included where a word is used in error, in a new sense.
1919 Electrician 25 Apr. 494/2 The French have experimented with a system in which a continuous wave signal is heterodyned to a supersonic frequency.
Gareth's citations raise an interesting possibility, though: The use of supersonic to describe speed may be 'incorrect' usage in the sense we know it.
I don't have access to the references Gareth does (and wish I did)
and would be interested to hear the first recorded uses of hypersonic, trans-sonic, and ultrasonic.
hypersonic 1. Of, pertaining to, or designating sound waves or vibrations with a frequency greater than about 1000 million Hz.
1937 B. V. R. Rao in Nature 22 May 885/1 Spontaneously existing sound-waves of thermal origin of very high frequencies (‘hyper-sonic waves’).
hypersonic 2. Involving, pertaining to, capable of, or designating speeds greater than about five times the speed of sound.
1946 Jrnl. Math. & Physics 25 247 Hypersonic flows are flow fields where the fluid velocity is much larger than the velocity of propagation of small disturbances, the velocity of sound.
transonic Pertaining to, involving, capable of, or designating speeds close to that of sound, at which some of the flow round a body is supersonic and some subsonic and there are characteristic changes in the behaviour of an aircraft.
1946 Britannica Bk. of Year (U.S.) 833/2 Trans-sonic, speeds ranging from 550 to 760 m.p.h.
ultrasonic 1. a. The more usual synonym of supersonic adj. 1.
1923 Proc. & Trans. Royal Soc. Canada 17 iii. 145 The wave-lengths of ultra-sonic waves are very convenient for experiment.
ultrasonic 2. Designating speeds above that of sound.
1942 Jrnl. Royal Aeronaut. Soc. 46 85 Equations of general application are derived, proving that both for infrasonic and for ultrasonic (supersonic) velocities, an extremum of the cross-section is possible.
Dramatic photos show the measure of a man in contrast to the enormity of nature::-)
Meaning 3 (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enormity?s=t)That usage was shot down recently; either in this thread (which is obviously my primary source for grammar and style) or by The Times pedantry columnist. It's quite recent, and dilutes the earlier meanings. Oh well.
;)
:o
I wonder, if I use the word 'Teaspoon' to mean Jeremy Hunt, as I just have - mark that, Lexicographers! - it becomes a meaning.I'm guessing that YACF won't be indexed. So either sneak it into an academic paper, or get a letter published in a (grown-up) newspaper. Good luck!
If only you do it, it's wrong. If YACF does it, it's wacky. If cyclists generally do it, it's slang. If an academic does it, it's an idiosyncrasy. If a group of academics does it, it's jargon. If enough people do it for long enough, it becomes correct.That's not why it's easily understood - it's because it looks like it's related to enormous, so the reader can make a reasonable guess.
I expect "enormity" is approaching the last stage, in that enough people use it that way for it to be easily understood.
Traffic report at 18:32 today on Magic "And the Tubes are still running good" :facepalm:
With the launch of FFX, the vision will always been the same
- Our best possible price
- Delivered quickly
- With great service
Surrey police confirms that Sir Jimmy Savile was questioned over allegations of child sex abuse in 2007, but the case was not pursued.
Correct or not? Or perhaps just, does it sound right?QuoteSurrey police confirms that Sir Jimmy Savile was questioned over allegations of child sex abuse in 2007, but the case was not pursued.
Correct or not? Or perhaps just, does it sound right?QuoteSurrey police confirms that Sir Jimmy Savile was questioned over allegations of child sex abuse in 2007, but the case was not pursued.
I'd say that that was unknowable because I think the word "police" can be both singular and plural
The BBC's use of apostrophes irritates me. For example:
- Italian bicycle sales 'surpass those of cars'
- Crowd backs Tunisia 'rape' woman outside court
- Hezbollah military commander 'killed in Syria'
- 'No proof' vitamin D stops colds
The BBC's use of apostrophes irritates me. For example:
- Italian bicycle sales 'surpass those of cars'
- Crowd backs Tunisia 'rape' woman outside court
- Hezbollah military commander 'killed in Syria'
- 'No proof' vitamin D stops colds
It's the fear of being seen to take sides, especially the wrong side.
Cars are good, bicycle are bad, so we mistrust anything which appears to favour cycling.
We can't be seen to say that this woman was raped: that imples that there's a rapist somewhere, and we know how unreliable supposed "rape" victims are.
Hezbollah is the enemy so we automatically suspect anything they say as lies.
Don't know about the last one.
Another one is "claim". Southend Councils says something so it must be true, even though they are a bunch of proven liars.
The anti-airport expansion group "claims" that Councillor Lamb made such-and-such an untrue statement, even though the paper themselves has already printed it and the evidence that he was lying.
Oh dear AH, if you were a purist you would be ranting about the use of 'text' as a verb!Well I don't mind that in this case as "send a text" is quite longwinded. Plus I am always impressed by the Germans' facility in inventing new verbs (they have 'SMSen' or 'Simsen' which is to send an SMS), but the Germans at least largely stick to the grammatical rules, so it'd be "ich simse, du simsest" etc etc. It's the lack of understanding that 'text' as a verb needs to be declined that drives me bonkers.
If you say, "He just text me to say...," fast enough the 'ed' syllable can become less pronounced.Well that is how people say it, they don't use the 'ed' at all at the end (I hear it a lot when I wander around this bit of Essex). I just thought that on the BBC News website, albeit the Yoof section, they might have corrected it...
Oh dear AH, if you were a purist you would be ranting about the use of 'text' as a verb!Well I don't mind that in this case as "send a text" is quite longwinded. Plus I am always impressed by the Germans' facility in inventing new verbs (they have 'SMSen' or 'Simsen' which is to send an SMS), but the Germans at least largely stick to the grammatical rules, so it'd be "ich simse, du simsest" etc etc. It's the lack of understanding that 'text' as a verb needs to be declined that drives me bonkers.
Good point. Clearly I have been away from language studies too long (5 months...)Oh dear AH, if you were a purist you would be ranting about the use of 'text' as a verb!Well I don't mind that in this case as "send a text" is quite longwinded. Plus I am always impressed by the Germans' facility in inventing new verbs (they have 'SMSen' or 'Simsen' which is to send an SMS), but the Germans at least largely stick to the grammatical rules, so it'd be "ich simse, du simsest" etc etc. It's the lack of understanding that 'text' as a verb needs to be declined that drives me bonkers.
May I be a grammar pedant and point out that nouns decline but verbs conjugate? Or would that send us into NSFW territory?
Just to be clear, I'm completely in favour of turning nouns into verbs in cases like this. As you've given a German example, I'll mention that Poles have reduced 'SMS' to 'eska' - onomatopoeia diminutivised! That's a noun though, I think you can say 'esemesować' as a verb but as in German, it would conjugate - esemesuję, esemesujesz, etc - but it looks a bit odd written down.Oh dear AH, if you were a purist you would be ranting about the use of 'text' as a verb!Well I don't mind that in this case as "send a text" is quite longwinded. Plus I am always impressed by the Germans' facility in inventing new verbs (they have 'SMSen' or 'Simsen' which is to send an SMS), but the Germans at least largely stick to the grammatical rules, so it'd be "ich simse, du simsest" etc etc. It's the lack of understanding that 'text' as a verb needs to be declined that drives me bonkers.
Oh dear AH, if you were a purist you would be ranting about the use of 'text' as a verb!
May I be a grammar pedant and point out that nouns decline but verbs conjugate?
Oh dear AH, if you were a purist you would be ranting about the use of 'text' as a verb!
If you accept "text" as a verb, you also have to accept the possibility of it being an irregular verb.
Bid, for example. The preterite of which is...
Bid.
d.
I don't think new verbs are allowed to be irregular. Irregularity is only for old, popular verbs!
I don't think new verbs are allowed to be irregular. Irregularity is only for old, popular verbs!
We do tend to regularise new verbs but there's no reason why a new verb shouldn't be irregular - "allowed" doesn't come into it. We're not French!
d.
Sting, stung
Ring, rung, rang
Stang? Isn't is a great and greatly inconsistent language we have?
Heard just now on 'Nothing to Declare UK'Thats brilliant. If the speaker doesn't realise how stupid that sounds ...well .. they deserve to look stupid on prime-time TV. (It could always be an in-joke. Please?)
"Now we need to get him downstairs and custodised" (which, apart from sounding ridiculous, I heard as custardized ;D )
*shivers*
Maybe it's because "text" already sounds like a past tense word, like taxed, boxed, cast etc.
Good Afternoon,
I Regret To Inform You That There Has Been A Error With Our Listing, We Unfortunately Have The Description For The Part 2 & The Title For Part 1. Can I Ask You To Confirm Which You Wish To Receive Prior To Dispatch? We Do Have Both In Stock At The Moment.
Yours sincerely
Mrs Taylor and Miss George
Food Technology Teacher’s
Detailed Programme of Study attached for printing
"Will soundcloud you later tonight..."Legitimate gripes, but I've decided to concede both these battles. Technology creates some tricky sentences anyway (cos old/normal words get reused for new concepts - such as cloud, or tweet).
I know we have mentioned Google before, as in, "I will google it later tonight," but to turn every proper noun into a verb makes me cringe, as does using an ellipsis instead of a full stop.
And I don't mind terminating ellipsises (sp?) in 'casual' usage - they're much better than endless mid-paragraph ones!
1 is ok!
(and I've just realised that 'cloud' is a perfectly good verb, so why not SoundCloud?!?)
(and I've just realised that 'cloud' is a perfectly good verb, so why not SoundCloud?!?)Not so much answering your question as simply pointing out the difference: cloud is a noun whereas SoundCloud is a proper noun.
I don't often spontaneously laugh out loud when I come across mistakes I did with this one:QuoteI have been practacing for the last week and compleated lesson 4 with only a few fumbels.
While we're on apostrofail, I noticed a Tattoo parlour with "Tattoo's" on the sign the other day. Now, I'm not really one for non-accidental body art, but I'd probably rate proofreading skills just below a rigorous approach to hygiene when choosing one...
Having a Roomba doesn't make for fewer chores: the hoovering still has to be done. It just makes it less of a chore.:facepalm:(click to show/hide)
If working as freelance news/sports photographer, the winner is the person who's photo first hits the picture desk."who's" == "who is", or "who has". Should be "whose".
This phenomenon.These phenomena is probably better.
These phenomenaFTFY ;Disare probably better.
These phenomenaFTFY ;Disare probably better.
Stick it up your ba!He has more than one?! :o
I should of seen that one coming. ::-)
While we're on apostrofail, I noticed a Tattoo parlour with "Tattoo's" on the sign the other day. Now, I'm not really one for non-accidental body art, but I'd probably rate proofreading skills just below a rigorous approach to hygiene when choosing one...
When we had one set up in our village (we're over-provided with charity shops, bookies and skin-cancer parlours), I notices the same as you, Kim. I pointed the error out to the owner and he just smiled as if I was touched or something. All perfectly amicable but you can't tell some people anything!
<<Tweet us your banging picures from the amazing display last night!>>I think banging is a good pun in the context and the sentence matches the style of the 'tweets' the council hopes to receive.
Usage, spelling & grammar cringes, all in one neat Tweet from Brent Council a few minutes ago.
Traffic report at 18:32 today on Magic "And the Tubes are still running good" :facepalm:
Those'll be the ones that provide the interwebs, presumably? ::-)
With a fifth of Ohio’s votes yet to be counted and Obama ahead by a slither,
QuoteWith a fifth of Ohio’s votes yet to be counted and Obama ahead by a slither,
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/this-election-wasnt-pretty-but-obamas-victory-is-a-triumph-for-science-over-superstition-8294590.html
Edit: actually, that's not a grammatical error. It's just ignorance, but quite a common mistake.
Collected
At Sortation Facility
In Transit
At Delivery Depot
Out For Delivery
Delivered
Just checking my parcel delivery status and I see from DPD's website that we have the following stages:QuoteCollected
At Sortation Facility
In Transit
At Delivery Depot
Out For Delivery
Delivered
Sortation??????
Has George W Bush gotten himself a new job writificating documents for delivery companies?Shouldn't that be deliverification companies?
De-escalate!Does that mean take the stairs?
Excellent blog post on the old that/which chestnut:
http://stancarey.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/a-comma-which-muddles-meaning/
Excellent blog post on the old that/which chestnut:
http://stancarey.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/a-comma-which-muddles-meaning/
;DDe-escalate!Does that mean take the stairs?
Indeed, but I think I disagree when he says, "nor do they need which changed to that." I'd change them.
Roasts Today Beef,Pork and Chicken ..not a Turkey insight £8.50 or 2 course £9.95 ,3 course £12.95 Open All Day today as usual
Not cringeworthy at all. That's funny.
The plural of roof is what?
At school I was taught the pural of roof is rooves (as well as hooves, calves, shelves, etc.) but reading the Bible, where I don't expect to find grammatical errors, I read Luke 12:3 (TNIV): What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
It seems odd that the Bible includes a grammatical error so I checked in my computer's dictionary: roofs. I checked my Oxford English Dictionary; it doesn't mention the plural. I searched YACF: 30 roofs and 3 rooves. If the internet is to be believed it appears that rooves is old fashioned and not used anymore apart from in New Zealand English. Really?
What do you say and write: roofs or rooves?
It seems odd that the Bible includes a grammatical error
The plural of roof is what?
... I checked my Oxford English Dictionary; it doesn't mention the plural. ...
The plural of roof is what?
At school I was taught the pural of roof is rooves (as well as hooves, calves, shelves, etc.) but reading the Bible, where I don't expect to find grammatical errors, I read Luke 12:3 (TNIV): What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
It seems odd that the Bible includes a grammatical error so I checked in my computer's dictionary: roofs. I checked my Oxford English Dictionary; it doesn't mention the plural. I searched YACF: 30 roofs and 3 rooves. If the internet is to be believed it appears that rooves is old fashioned and not used anymore apart from in New Zealand English. Really?
What do you say and write: roofs or rooves?
The plural of roof is what?
At school I was taught the pural of roof is rooves (as well as hooves, calves, shelves, etc.) but reading the Bible, where I don't expect to find grammatical errors, I read Luke 12:3 (TNIV): What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
It seems odd that the Bible includes a grammatical error so I checked in my computer's dictionary: roofs. I checked my Oxford English Dictionary; it doesn't mention the plural. I searched YACF: 30 roofs and 3 rooves. If the internet is to be believed it appears that rooves is old fashioned and not used anymore apart from in New Zealand English. Really?
What do you say and write: roofs or rooves?
The plural of 'roof' is 'roofs'! I don't know what school you went to but it wasn't a grammar school!! ;D
The plural of roof is what?
At school I was taught the pural of roof is rooves (as well as hooves, calves, shelves, etc.) but reading the Bible, where I don't expect to find grammatical errors, I read Luke 12:3 (TNIV): What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
It seems odd that the Bible includes a grammatical error so I checked in my computer's dictionary: roofs. I checked my Oxford English Dictionary; it doesn't mention the plural. I searched YACF: 30 roofs and 3 rooves. If the internet is to be believed it appears that rooves is old fashioned and not used anymore apart from in New Zealand English. Really?
What do you say and write: roofs or rooves?
The plural of 'roof' is 'roofs'! I don't know what school you went to but it wasn't a grammar school!! ;D
The plural of roof is what?
At school I was taught the pural of roof is rooves (as well as hooves, calves, shelves, etc.) but reading the Bible, where I don't expect to find grammatical errors, I read Luke 12:3 (TNIV): What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
It seems odd that the Bible includes a grammatical error so I checked in my computer's dictionary: roofs. I checked my Oxford English Dictionary; it doesn't mention the plural. I searched YACF: 30 roofs and 3 rooves. If the internet is to be believed it appears that rooves is old fashioned and not used anymore apart from in New Zealand English. Really?
What do you say and write: roofs or rooves?
The plural of 'roof' is 'roofs'! I don't know what school you went to but it wasn't a grammar school!! ;D
"Rooves" are conical copper rivets that are clenched over the nails (also copper) that are traditionally used to fasten the planks together in a clinker-built boat.
The plural of roof is what?
At school I was taught the pural of roof is rooves (as well as hooves, calves, shelves, etc.) but reading the Bible, where I don't expect to find grammatical errors, I read Luke 12:3 (TNIV): What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
It seems odd that the Bible includes a grammatical error so I checked in my computer's dictionary: roofs. I checked my Oxford English Dictionary; it doesn't mention the plural. I searched YACF: 30 roofs and 3 rooves. If the internet is to be believed it appears that rooves is old fashioned and not used anymore apart from in New Zealand English. Really?
What do you say and write: roofs or rooves?
The plural of 'roof' is 'roofs'! I don't know what school you went to but it wasn't a grammar school!! ;D
"Rooves" are conical copper rivets that are clenched over the nails (also copper) that are traditionally used to fasten the planks together in a clinker-built boat.
I thought that was 'roves'...
Perhaps he's right :D
You lot are amateurs...
The Self-Appointed Grammar Police Casebook (http://sagp.miketaylor.org.uk/casebook/index.html)
Bugger!!!!!
You're right ;D.
You lot are amateurs...
The Self-Appointed Grammar Police Casebook (http://sagp.miketaylor.org.uk/casebook/index.html)
Yes, Helly.But " Hoax nurse's body " would still be ambiguous. It's the brevity that's the problem, not the grammar or lack of apostrophe.
I get infuriated by that kind of language-mangling from teletext news, yahoo pages and other information services. It's not as if there isn't space to write "nurse's".
It's Sundays evening (6pm) and your due to start work on Monday morning. You're not feeling very well but you know that it will be hard to find cover at this short notice. Tick which actions you would take
You're on the way to your lesson and your car break's down. What do you do?
You lot are amateurs...
The Self-Appointed Grammar Police Casebook (http://sagp.miketaylor.org.uk/casebook/index.html)
We still haven't made a decision about the Oxford comma. (Roll on retirement).
You lot are amateurs...
The Self-Appointed Grammar Police Casebook (http://sagp.miketaylor.org.uk/casebook/index.html)
You're all lightweights. My colleagues and I spent a whole staff meeting discussing how we should teach comma use this week. We still haven't made a decision about the Oxford comma. (Roll on retirement).
You might think it would be that simple, wouldn't you? But a wealth of angst and frustration is generated by those words highlighted above.You lot are amateurs...
The Self-Appointed Grammar Police Casebook (http://sagp.miketaylor.org.uk/casebook/index.html)
You're all lightweights. My colleagues and I spent a whole staff meeting discussing how we should teach comma use this week. We still haven't made a decision about the Oxford comma. (Roll on retirement).
It's simple. If you, your colleagues and management agree, then you should use it with care, precision, and consistency.
Boxted Village Hall's sign:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/431355_10151180270766786_338901160_n.jpg)
Third time's the charm!
Thanks. I'll probably shorten Quizzes to Quizz's in future.Quiz's is a shortening of Quizes
It's probably a shortening of quizzes. Quiz'es would still require an apostrophe.
One long haired boy really small type and short haired little girl born on 30-09-2012. Looking for kind, loving homes only. Wormed from two weeks old, flea’d with frontline. Reduced to £400 due to need new homes.
I have never seen the spelling "dilemna" before now. I think it is, quite simply, just wrong.Ditto.
You know that thing, where you're happily spelling a word that you think you're entirely right and comfortable with, and then you suddenly lose faith in yourself and wonder, and the longer you look at it, the more you can't decide if it's right, and in fact, it and the other option both look both wrong, and meaningless? That.
You know that thing, where you're happily spelling a word that you think you're entirely right and comfortable with, and then you suddenly lose faith in yourself and wonder, and the longer you look at it, the more you can't decide if it's right, and in fact, it and the other option both look both wrong, and meaningless? That.
I'd always thought that was just me.
None of my usual authorative references even mention the alternative spelling, thus I am forced to conclude it is simply wrong.
Common usage only goes so far, the use of 'your' when the author means 'you're' for example.
The Concise Oxford has no mention of "dilemna".
Although my spelling (if not my typing) is excellent, I have long advocated phonetic spelling. However, a lot of people down here don't pronounce words properly, so the poor dears would be disadvantaged.German has cases! And that abomination, grammatical gender! How can you call it more sensible?
German's a much more sensible language, to my mind.
So is Welsh...
Most importantly for people who might struggle with spelling, it's consistent.
It's always clear what you're talking about, and has fewer cases than, say Latin. I think the tenses are simpler, too.
Most importantly for people who might struggle with spelling, it's consistent.
It's always clear what you're talking about, and has fewer cases than, say Latin. I think the tenses are simpler, too.
Most importantly for people who might struggle with spelling, it's consistent.
It's not in Chambers online, fwiw. I wonder if the "dilemna" spelling started with misread handwriting? Or maybe a simple typo. I don't think I've ever heard anybody pronounce it as if it had an "n".The Concise Oxford has no mention of "dilemna".
I would expect the only dictionary to list it, if any, would be Chambers, which lists many common alternative* spellings not included in other dictionaries (this being the reason why it tends to be the dictionary of choice for crossword compilers).
d.
*wrong spellings, if you prefer.
Spanish, Portuguese or Italian spelling is simpler, consistent, & phonetic, tenses are simpler than English, they're clear, & there are no cases. They still have grammatical gender, though.
Fewer cases than Latin is like saying fewer potholes than Reade's Lane (a road I try to avoid on my road bike except in fine weather & daylight). It's condemning with faint praise. "Not as bad as" =/ good.
And spelling is not inherent to the language. Several languages are written in more than one script. Claiming German is a more sensible language because of its spelling is therefore mistaken. You are confusing the language with how it is represented.
I am amazed that anyone would go to the trouble of a webpage about a basic error.
English isn't easy to learn. We just think it is because so many non-native speakers learn it, but they do so despite it being difficult, because it's the most important language in the world & therefore very useful to know. But listen to the mistakes they make: they're in areas you probably take for granted, such as our fiendishly complicated (but very precise, when used correctly) tenses, or articles, which many languages (e.g. Japanese) lack.Spanish, Portuguese or Italian spelling is simpler, consistent, & phonetic, tenses are simpler than English, they're clear, & there are no cases. They still have grammatical gender, though.
Fewer cases than Latin is like saying fewer potholes than Reade's Lane (a road I try to avoid on my road bike except in fine weather & daylight). It's condemning with faint praise. "Not as bad as" =/ good.
And spelling is not inherent to the language. Several languages are written in more than one script. Claiming German is a more sensible language because of its spelling is therefore mistaken. You are confusing the language with how it is represented.
I'm curious (don't worry, it's partly rhetorical, I don't expect you to have the answer), but are 'regular' languages easier to learn? English is famed for irregularity yet seems remarkably easy to learn (sure, people gripe, but they learn it all the same and do a good job). I can say this as someone dim enough to have accepted a bet to learn Japanese which in many ways is quite regular but takes a lot of rote learning and mental re-adjustment (owing to the confidence kryptonite that is beer, I was temporarily of the belief I had developed some kind of learning superpower – I'm just glad I didn't make the same bet in Hong Kong, Cantonese* would reduce my mind to glue).
*yeah, yeah, Hong Kong Cantonese, even worse than Guangdong Cantonese, though they'll fight over that.
Spanish, Portuguese or Italian spelling is simpler, consistent, & phonetic, tenses are simpler than English, they're clear, & there are no cases. They still have grammatical gender, though.
Fewer cases than Latin is like saying fewer potholes than Reade's Lane (a road I try to avoid on my road bike except in fine weather & daylight). It's condemning with faint praise. "Not as bad as" =/ good.
And spelling is not inherent to the language. Several languages are written in more than one script. Claiming German is a more sensible language because of its spelling is therefore mistaken. You are confusing the language with how it is represented.
I'm curious (don't worry, it's partly rhetorical, I don't expect you to have the answer), but are 'regular' languages easier to learn? English is famed for irregularity yet seems remarkably easy to learn (sure, people gripe, but they learn it all the same and do a good job). I can say this as someone dim enough to have accepted a bet to learn Japanese which in many ways is quite regular but takes a lot of rote learning and mental re-adjustment (owing to the confidence kryptonite that is beer, I was temporarily of the belief I had developed some kind of learning superpower – I'm just glad I didn't make the same bet in Hong Kong, Cantonese* would reduce my mind to glue).
*yeah, yeah, Hong Kong Cantonese, even worse than Guangdong Cantonese, though they'll fight over that.
Spanish, Portuguese or Italian spelling is simpler, consistent, & phonetic, tenses are simpler than English, they're clear, & there are no cases. They still have grammatical gender, though.
Fewer cases than Latin is like saying fewer potholes than Reade's Lane (a road I try to avoid on my road bike except in fine weather & daylight). It's condemning with faint praise. "Not as bad as" =/ good.
And spelling is not inherent to the language. Several languages are written in more than one script. Claiming German is a more sensible language because of its spelling is therefore mistaken. You are confusing the language with how it is represented.
I'm curious (don't worry, it's partly rhetorical, I don't expect you to have the answer), but are 'regular' languages easier to learn? English is famed for irregularity yet seems remarkably easy to learn (sure, people gripe, but they learn it all the same and do a good job). I can say this as someone dim enough to have accepted a bet to learn Japanese which in many ways is quite regular but takes a lot of rote learning and mental re-adjustment (owing to the confidence kryptonite that is beer, I was temporarily of the belief I had developed some kind of learning superpower – I'm just glad I didn't make the same bet in Hong Kong, Cantonese* would reduce my mind to glue).
*yeah, yeah, Hong Kong Cantonese, even worse than Guangdong Cantonese, though they'll fight over that.
German is always clear what you're talking about, and has fewer cases than, say Latin. I think the tenses are simpler, too.Erm, not entirely!
Most importantly for people who might struggle with spelling, it's consistent.
The Concise Oxford has no mention of "dilemna".
I would expect the only dictionary to list it, if any, would be Chambers, which lists many common alternative* spellings not included in other dictionaries (this being the reason why it tends to be the dictionary of choice for crossword compilers).
d.
*wrong spellings, if you prefer.
why don,t they repair all the hole,s in the road,s
This from a comment on a Swindon Advertiser story.Quotewhy don,t they repair all the hole,s in the road,s
So if you live in the countries affected, please write in with your views on how we have scored them. [address should go here]Ok, not grammar, just - well, that whole article about papal candidates and the summaries of the cardinals http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/12/cardinal-candidates-pope clearly hasn't been read by anyone before publishing.
Swine flu resistance 'increasing'Does that mean people's resistance to swine flu or swine flu's resistance to treatment? Or perhaps pigs' resistance to swine flu?
Roll-up, Roll-up - Apostrophe Competition!Inner feelings?
A sign at work is crying out to be 'enhanced', and they've even left a space for me to scribble in.
It's something like this:
Please leave the toilet's _________*
in the same state
you would like to
find them.
Suggestions welcome for the asterisked space!
(i was hoping for something erudite - like 'morals', which doesn't quite work ... )
"If the baby does not thrive on raw milk, boil it."
Roll-up, Roll-up - Apostrophe Competition!
A sign at work is crying out to be 'enhanced', and they've even left a space for me to scribble in.
It's something like this:
Please leave the toilet's _________*
in the same state
you would like to
find them.
Suggestions welcome for the asterisked space!
(i was hoping for something erudite - like 'morals', which doesn't quite work ... )
Please leave the toilet's notices:thumbsup:
in the same state
you would like to
find them.
"In our organization we have: - A night shelter for the homeless witch every night.."She commented:
Nice volunteering opportunity for all the occult fans out there:)
Email from Uniqlo: This seasons essential Polo's! £14.90!Maybe it was from group head office in 宇部市, 山口県.
Please leave the toilet's notices
in the same state
you would like to
find them.
Please find below last week’s bulletin which was due to unforeseen problems with the server. However, the bulletin will always was be on the website page every Thursday via this link http://<linky>/weekly_bulletin. All the bulletins can be reviewed on the left hand navigation bar.
Yesterday's Guardian: "However the freezing temperatures in January meant that some species of birds saw an increase in gardens..."
To be fair the online version has been corrected to, "However the freezing temperatures in January meant that some species of birds increased in gardens..."
CTC email today "Make Cycling History".One thread not enough for you Helly?
Oh Dear!
Same Lorries,would have been fine!
More Luxury
Whether you’re commuting or training, the single speed now makes sense. A lightweight fixed/free frame with traditional features and geometries that work with your body, not against it.
Once More Unto The Breach, whether your commuting or training in the fierce, winter cold, this 7005 butted aluminium frame is ready for anything; poised like a greyhound in the slips, straining upon the start.
"Rate of speed" :facepalm:
Perfectly good English, as spoken by St. George himself! :smug:
Perfectly good English, as spoken by St. George himself! :smug:
Nah, wasn't he Turkish? He'd have spoken perfect English!
Greek. Before the Turks moved in.Perfectly good English, as spoken by St. George himself! :smug:
Nah, wasn't he Turkish? He'd have spoken perfect English!
A pair of commas can be used to separate words or groups of words and to clarify the meaning of a sentence. Insert a pair of commas to clarify each sentence below:
a) My friend who is very fit won the 100-metre race.
The last sentence makes me shudder.
https://twitter.com/timothy_stanley/status/334005361860308992/photo/1
Audaxers who keep saying they've been to "Menai" - there's no such place. The name of the town is "Porthaethwy".
>:(
I hope you all had a lovely long bank holiday weekend. Wasnt the weather lovely for it. Im sure lots of BBQ's were had.:facepalm:
Just a small reminder about tomorrows job club, Reading Voluntary Action are coming in again to do a session. They was very good last time and I think volunteering is a great way to start back into the world of work. Some of you may of been out of work a long time . . . . so i know where i can take the club further ... We are running the club up until 17th July 2013 to which we will need break ... return back ... I cant help ...
how do you correctly quote inside a quote?
Just what the @#~ :o%>} is "Travel yourself interesting" supposed to mean? :sick:
I reckon we could use that construction for a few threads:
Cringe yourself pedantic
Rant yourself happy
Fettle yourself shiny
Ride yourself somewhere
Baton yourself woody
I reckon we could use that construction for a few threads:;D
Cringe yourself pedantic
Rant yourself happy
Fettle yourself shiny
Ride yourself somewhere
Baton yourself woody
Dunno if it's cringeworthy or more suitable for a full-on rant.
expedia.co.uk
Just what the @#~ :o%>} is "Travel yourself interesting" supposed to mean? :sick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC939SwIsuEDo you think Bobb would like those red shorts?
Dunno if it's cringeworthy or more suitable for a full-on rant.
expedia.co.uk
Just what the @#~ :o%>} is "Travel yourself interesting" supposed to mean? :sick:
Audaxers who keep saying they've been to "Menai" - there's no such place. The name of the town is "Porthaethwy".
>:(
English includes many words originally press-ganged from latin, which have changed their grammatical type.Surely 'stamina' is singular (and uncountable)? As in "Stamina is what you need in long distance cycling." I'm not sure the author doesn't think so too, because he goes on to say:
‘Stamina’ and ‘agenda’ are two well-known ones, and ‘media’ is apparently becoming one. Separately from its botanical sense, a ‘stamen’ was the warp of a fabric, or figuratively some essential element of a thing; the word ‘stamina’ now refers to a completely different concept, which has no need, and no room, for a singular form – it makes no sense to speak of one of the things of which stamina is the plural.
We can even watch the word changing its grammatical ‘number’, from plural to singular. In the list of OED usages for this sense (3a) of ‘stamina’ – from ‘her stamina could not last much longer’ (the earliest, in 1726) to ‘his stamina is gone entirely’ (1834) – we see a century or so where the word is used in contexts where its number is ambiguous; and in the first case in this list where its number is clear, it is clearly singular, and the word is being used in its modern sense. The OED's last spotting of the relevant sense of ‘stamen’ used as a singular is in 1794.A bit confusing. Not that it matters anyway!
A quarter of all rush-hour traffic in central London is now bicycles...
The biggest ever census of bike use in the city reveals one in four road users during the morning rush hour is a cyclist
Surely 'stamina' is singular (and uncountable)? As in "Stamina is what you need in long distance cycling."
1782 H. Walpole Let. 11 July in Corr. (1965) XXXIII. 345 Though the relapse will be much more dangerous to Mr. Fox than to Mr. Fitzpatrick, whose stamina are of stouter texture.
1791 W. Maxwell in J. Boswell Life Johnson anno 1770 I. 344 [Paraphrasing Johnson:] He said..it was the bad stamina of the mind, which, like those of the body, were never rectified.
1823 J. Gillies tr. Aristotle Rhetoric i. v. 180 If the stamina are not sound, disease will soon ensue.
the 2nd grates too - _I_ would have written " are cyclists" - cos we know there are more than one.
So what was the singular? And was that ever used?
1701 C. Wolley Two Years Jrnl. N.-Y. 13 A person seemingly of a weakly Stamen and a valetudinary Constitution.
1753 L. M. tr. J. Du Bosc Accompl. Woman I. 246 Bad example hath not less influence upon education than a bad stamen upon the constitution.
As we're doing numbers ...
5Live Tennis commentator, describing a close line call:
"...by the square-root of an inch."
[We're allowed any old rubbish in this thread, IIRC]
It seems that Nouvelle have employed the same copywriter as Tesco (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg1456401#msg1456401)Same product, less lorries, smaller tube, fewer options when the roll runs out and it's cardboard or hand time.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3823/9114475381_0373559e7a_n.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/oranjh/9114475381/)
Fewer_2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/oranjh/9114475381/) by Oranj (http://www.flickr.com/people/oranjh/), on Flickr
Partie's catered for
Ah. I see the error. It should beQuotePartie's catered for
"The Duchess of Cambridge was safely delivered of a son".
This makes me cringe, whether or not it's "correct". "Delivered of"? What nonsense.
This makes me cringe, whether or not it's "correct". "Delivered of"? What nonsense.
They could just say that the Duchess "delivered a son". Actually, I suspect she just despatched it. Probably the midwife delivered it from the bed to the cot."Despatch" more usually refers to removing someone from the world, rather than bringing them into it. You may want the POBI Monarchy thread.
Anyway, the notion that grammer and spellin can be correct or incorrect makes me cringe more than anything!
"The Duchess of Cambridge was safely delivered of a son".
This makes me cringe, whether or not it's "correct". "Delivered of"? What nonsense.
That is, indeed, correct. Pregnancy is a parlous stated and the labouring woman is safely delivered of the infant who threatens her existence.
Obstructed labour still kills women.
A live-born baby is a bonus.
This is the correct usage.
You may not like it.
I thought it was: Hatches; Matches; Despatches.
Your gynaecologist?"The Duchess of Cambridge was safely delivered of a son".
This makes me cringe, whether or not it's "correct". "Delivered of"? What nonsense.
That is, indeed, correct. Pregnancy is a parlous stated and the labouring woman is safely delivered of the infant who threatens her existence.
Obstructed labour still kills women.
A live-born baby is a bonus.
This is the correct usage.
You may not like it.
I agree - "delivery" is derived from the Latin liberare, so "freed away" of a baby.
"Delivered from a son" is also arguably correct but doesn't sound nearly as charitable.
I'm not sure how good a classicist I'd like my gynaecologist to be, having said all this.
It was. It is now despatches, matches and despatches.
It was. It is now despatches, matches and despatches.
Who says? I've never heard that. It doesn't make sense.
[paraphrase]This report updates and supersedes the earlier one[/paraphrase]
It would be helpful to know which. *sigh*
[paraphrase]This report updates and supersedes the earlier one[/paraphrase]
It would be helpful to know which. *sigh*
Couldn't it be both?
supersede verb (superseded, superseding) 1 to take the place of (something, especially something outdated or no longer valid)
whereas "update" means you need both old and new {reports/things} in combination with each other.
whereas "update" means you need both old and new {reports/things} in combination with each other.
There's another way of using update, whereby "A updates B" means "A is a revised (up to date) version of B".
whereas "update" means you need both old and new {reports/things} in combination with each other.
There's another way of using update, whereby "A updates B" means "A is a revised (up to date) version of B".
In which case, "supersede" renders "update" redundant?
So being delivered from evil is very different from being delivered of evil.Escape does not equal exorcism.
Ms McPherson said: “Our job is to describe the language people are using. The only reason this sense is included is because people are using it in this way."
On 16/08/2013 17:45, CTC, the national cycling charity wrote:
CTC welcomes the 'cycling revolution'
"Gift CTC membership to a friend or family."
(they did it last week too)
'Arrgh ! No, please stop ! no - 'gift' is a noun and 'Give' a verb'
I Emailed them today (I did it last week too)
'may we have 'Give CTC membership to a friend or family (member)' next time around ?'
please help
verb
[with object]
give (something) as a gift, especially formally or as a donation or bequest:
the company gifted 2,999 shares to a charity
'Arrgh ! No, please stop ! no - 'gift' is a noun and 'Give' a verb'
QuoteMs McPherson said: “Our job is to describe the language people are using. The only reason this sense is included is because people are using it in this way."
I agree it has suddenly started being overused and does tend to grate in sentences like the one you quote. It can be useful to show that something was given as a gift - the word give is much looser, eg you can be given a speeding ticket, but not gifted one.That Kylie Minogue - i'd gift her one.
You don't say why you're quoting this—is it because you're surprised? or because this is an important point that you think people here are missing?
'Arrgh ! No, please stop ! no - 'gift' is a noun and 'Give' a verb'
I Emailed them today
'Arrgh ! No, please stop ! no - 'gift' is a noun and 'Give' a verb'
Gift as a verb was good enough for:
* Henry Fielding (Tom Jones "Nothing but the Inspiration with which we Writers are gifted, can possibly enable any one to make the Discovery")
* Jane Austen (Persuasion "It seemed as if Mr Shepherd ... had been gifted with foresight")
* Charlotte Brontë (Jane Eyre "he was just the sort of wild, fierce, bandit hero whom I could have consented to gift with my hand")
We discussed this previously (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg1078256#msg1078256): gift has the advantage, in the kind of context that the CTC is using it, that it unambiguously means "bestow gratuitously", whereas give has multiple meanings (the OED gives 14 major senses).
'Arrgh ! No, please stop ! no - 'gift' is a noun and 'Give' a verb'
I Emailed them today
Out of interest, what is it about the particular use of "gift" as a verb that piques you so? Clearly the same problem doesn't apply to use of "email" as a verb.
But all those examples are historical/obsolete usages, i.e. not from current English.
For some "gift" is OK as a verb, but what about "car"?
car, v. Now rare.
1. trans. To place or carry in a car; (also) to transport in to a marketplace, etc.
2. intr. To go by car (in various senses). Also trans. with it (colloq.).
If you object to "car" as a verb...
Language is not based on logic like maths. Eg, 3 very common words that sound the same: two, to, too.
automobileing your brother from the station"
4.15 Basis for identification and selection of stakeholders with whom to engage.But I can't help feeling, especially as it's going to be read by people who don't have English as their first language, it might be better if it weren't. The "with whom" jars, but it's not wrong, so I'll leave it.
While some of Austen's & Fielding's usages may sound odd today, I think there might be (small, restrained, rather polite) riots if you tried to bar one of Jane's usages on the grounds that it's obsolete.'Arrgh ! No, please stop ! no - 'gift' is a noun and 'Give' a verb'
Gift as a verb was good enough for:
* Henry Fielding (Tom Jones "Nothing but the Inspiration with which we Writers are gifted, can possibly enable any one to make the Discovery")
* Jane Austen (Persuasion "It seemed as if Mr Shepherd ... had been gifted with foresight")
* Charlotte Brontë (Jane Eyre "he was just the sort of wild, fierce, bandit hero whom I could have consented to gift with my hand")
We discussed this previously (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg1078256#msg1078256): gift has the advantage, in the kind of context that the CTC is using it, that it unambiguously means "bestow gratuitously", whereas give has multiple meanings (the OED gives 14 major senses).
But all those examples are historical/obsolete usages, ie not from current English. If you're going to use descriptive grammar to judge current "correct" usage, then you have to use the language as it is used now.
This, from the index to a report, is completely correct:Quote4.15 Basis for identification and selection of stakeholders with whom to engage.But I can't help feeling, especially as it's going to be read by people who don't have English as their first language, it might be better if it weren't. The "with whom" jars, but it's not wrong, so I'll leave it.
The term used for 'stakeholder' in the Polish version is 'interesariusz'. No ambiguity there. All we need now is to introduce the term 'nie-interesariusz'. :D More seriously, I don't recall ever hearing the word 'stakeholder' in its other (presumably original) meaning.This, from the index to a report, is completely correct:Quote4.15 Basis for identification and selection of stakeholders with whom to engage.But I can't help feeling, especially as it's going to be read by people who don't have English as their first language, it might be better if it weren't. The "with whom" jars, but it's not wrong, so I'll leave it.
It's the word 'stakeholders' that jars with me. They are precisely the people with whom one does not engage (i.e. disinterested parties, 'holding the stake' as they have no interest in a bet going one way or the other). But I think I might have lost that one to the forces of common usage.
And to be "gifted with foresight" or inspiration or a similar quality is still a pretty common saying, IMO."Gifted child" is probably the most common use. Ironically it means "born with natural abilities" rather than being given anything as a gift.
* Charlotte Brontë (Jane Eyre "he was just the sort of wild, fierce, bandit hero whom I could have consented to gift with my hand")
As usual, it's sports (especially football) commentators to blame. "Arsenal gifted Villa that win."
Yes, well it's sexing up with cool language something that's actually pretty boring...
( I have a little list)
( I have a little list)
'They were farewelled at the airport and gifted a rosebowl.'
farewell, v. To take leave of, bid or say good-bye to
whilst making ready to farewell his folk he heard one of his many farm dogs
whilst I looked on and made sure of death and she farewelled me with her dying eyes
we all made sure of death-doom and each and every one of us farewelled his friend
After he had bidden adieu to everybody except his youngest daughter, he proceeded to farewell her
We're almost back to 'medalled'. Shall I reopen that wound? :demon:
I was taught that the first letter of the main content should be lower case because it was a continuation of the sentence beginning Dear.
Did your teacher claim that this was the only convention for letter-writing?
I adieued my son when I left him at his friend's house earlier today.'They were farewelled at the airport and gifted a rosebowl.'
The OED says:Quote from: OEDfarewell, v. To take leave of, bid or say good-bye to
with citations back to 1586. Richard Burton (the explorer, not the actor) seems to have been particularly fond of the word:Quote from: Richard Burtonwhilst making ready to farewell his folk he heard one of his many farm dogs
whilst I looked on and made sure of death and she farewelled me with her dying eyes
we all made sure of death-doom and each and every one of us farewelled his friend
After he had bidden adieu to everybody except his youngest daughter, he proceeded to farewell her
I adieued my son when I left him at his friend's house earlier today.
adieu, v. To say ‘adieu’; to take one's leave.
It really is quite difficult to invent genuinely new words, isn't it? Or rather, genuinely new versions of/uses for existing words.
"Genuinity" is a word I invented easily, and used on this forum. Someone replied with a question mark, as if to complain that it wasn't a word, but a word is a word once someone's used it, and you can have a go at working out what it means. If you don't get it, ok, the attempted communication failed. Otherwise, it's a success! Jolly goodywobbles, eh?
...Oh shit, I see I wasn't first with "genuinity" and "goodywobble" after all. Bloody/lovely Google.
"Genuinity" is a word I invented easily, and used on this forum.
genuinity, n. rare.
Genuineness.
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People seem to have forgotten the word "effected".
From http://www2.ebay.com/aw/uk/201308.shtml#2013-08-24093057?_trksid=p3984.m2301.l3955:QuoteSellers that were impacted by this outage are covered by the protections in our site outage policy. We will provide impacted sellers with additional information regarding applicable credits in the coming days.
Effected is OK when used properly, e.g. "I effected a withdrawal from the room after Biggsy trumped."
Chinese lanterns have caused eight fires across Norfolk in fewer than three years, according to official figures.
Effected is OK when used properly, e.g. "I effected a withdrawal from the room after Biggsy trumped."
"I effected a withdrawal from the room after I was affected by Biggsy's trumping."
I'm not sure that you can declare an adjective though.
On the other hand, you can put other nouns into the original construct, for example:
"Climbing Hard Knott on 67" fixed. That's strength!"
"Infinitely-variable gears with a hidden electric drive. That's the answer!"
And to prove it we've asked you to send in your most genius notions.
Quote from: Dave Gorman, 48 seconds into the very first television episodeAnd to prove it we've asked you to send in your most genius notions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGZaCuavUfI&t=48s
If you suspect they’re worse – or better – than average, new CTC research might confirm or otherwise your suspicions.
Quite right, Nicknack. There were some examples of that particular offence in the Graun comments page the other day. I would imagine they were Daily Mail readers on a trolling expedition.
Arising out of T42's "encroaching - on", also, "protest" requires "against". I have never protested nuclear weapons. I have always protested against them.
+1. A nice example of how laziness loses distinctions in meaning.... I have never protested nuclear weapons. I have always protested against them.
Dead on. After all, one can protest innocence.
"They try to play a very physical game and get on top of you early doors." That comes from a report on a football match I read recently. Early doors? What's that all about? It means 'at an early stage in the proceedings'.
But why 'doors'? Where did that come from? Nobody knows for certain, but the best guess is that it originally referred to theatres, music halls and similar places opening their doors in advance of the time when the advertised entertainment was due to begin.
Customers who slipped in then had a much better choice of seats than people who left it to the last moment, so from the outset 'early doors' implied gaining an advantage by taking action at the first opportunity.
The phrase appears to have been adopted by football commentators but not their invention: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/language/uptodate/2010/11/101116_kyeutd_early_doors_page.shtml)I've always assumed it was a theatrical expression as well. But the whole point is that 'early doors' is before the performance starts. In the quotation from the football commentary the word 'doors' is just a filler. The sentence means exactly the same with out the word 'doors'. Which is possibly the subject for an entirely different rant thread!Quote"They try to play a very physical game and get on top of you early doors." That comes from a report on a football match I read recently. Early doors? What's that all about? It means 'at an early stage in the proceedings'.
But why 'doors'? Where did that come from? Nobody knows for certain, but the best guess is that it originally referred to theatres, music halls and similar places opening their doors in advance of the time when the advertised entertainment was due to begin.
Customers who slipped in then had a much better choice of seats than people who left it to the last moment, so from the outset 'early doors' implied gaining an advantage by taking action at the first opportunity.
It's not exactly a point of grammar, but ICBA to start a "bloody stupid footballing sayings" thread in the "Sporting Life" board.
I though pubs too, from when they used to have strict opening hours, early doors meaning to go in the pub at 11:00am or 6:00pm as soon as they opened the doors.
A tie between David and I.
early doors
A. n. In a theatre, etc.: a period of admission ending some time before the performance begins, during which a wider selection of seating is available, usually for a higher price. Now hist.
B. adv. Early on; near the beginning. Freq. in the context of Association Football.
Early doors is a reasonably common saying in and around York still. Always with the pub connotation though never heard it used about football.
First time I ever heard it was in the 1990s, in rugby. The game, not the town.
Dear Colleagues,
MOD TRANSFORMATION – HEADLINE UPDATE BRIEF
1. Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF). Left of centre, right of arc, flash to bang, the deep dive into the kinetic degradation of ground-based facilities has been conducted. Despite reports that when the adversary smells flowers, he looks for the funeral, in actual fact there’s a lot of air in the sky and there’s been more heat than light crossing the impasse across the strategy landscape. The paradigm shift of the glide path’s trajectory has been mitigated, socialised, dovetailed and is gaining traction into a functional decomposition of the problem.
2. Background.
a. Playing with a straight bat. Checks and balances from the slop chit have been tossed into the sea to see if they float and both hot threads and major strands have been tied up with belts and braces leading to some seriously nutritional and protein-rich blue water downstream in the basin of priority. Going forward to derisk our germane posture in the oxygenated vector, there are a number of generic worry beads and stray volts nested and couched in the backwash, but if you keep your powder dry and lean into the issue there’s no need to set the hares running or waste any heartbeats.
b. Hub of the problem. Ground truthing, force sensing and heavy lifting have provided some positive dynamics attenuating energy projectile on this buoyant lily pad, leading into a space where we have covered off some other people’s sandwiches. En passant, the calculus of the non-viable mission capability is something for Town to scope with 5, albeit we can wait that out until we’ve run the opening salvo to ground, got our ducks in a row, harvested the low hanging fruit, squared the circle, fitted a round peg in a round hole, and taken the crocodiles closest to the canoe off message. It’s all about the dead cat bounce opportunity.
c. Showing a bit of leg. Entre nous, the cognisant wolves nearest to the sledge are providing buckets of sub-optimal friction in the shifting sands of their swim lane, but with some thoughts and ideas they can be handed off to prevent the stovepipes going nuclear – and everyone knows that in a game of prep school football there’s no traction without friction anyway. In this Spinal Tap scenario we can continue to ride these two horses at the same time, and not asking a question to which you won’t get an answer is always better than a custard pie.
3. Lines To Take (LTTs).
a. Dogs. Given that the political atmosphere is so febrile, in our locale it is important not to step outside the policy box and into the generic media space across the piece, especially as most of these fundaments remain in the small box space of enhanced sensitivity. On the subject of force projection and airframe generation, we must be reticent about releasing this excarnation of effects-based targeting more widely to wider Whitehall, and instead break out and excel in the area of augmentation and dimension management. After all, everyone knows that a camel is a horse designed by a committee.
b. Stray dogs. In changing the dialogue’s pH balance, we must remain alive to a streamlined, zero sum battle rhythm and take stock at the stocktake by brigading our niche upticks of activity to ensure that the theory of change remains explicit from the outset. The staccato mood music in the minimalist camp provides putative granularity, while a weather eye warrants a situating of the estimate in order to get greater fidelity and more bang for our buck. The ambiguity of our posture and stance is quite constructive, but only if the nascent sidebar is segued and the blue sky thinking is expedited once the dust has settled.
c. Stray dogs with fleas. This clique is clearly apposite to the clarity of communications, so long as the conditionality chimes and users appreciate that this is not a cost-cutting exercise: it is about delivering improved value for money within the same resource envelope. There are a number of evolving and interconnected strands of activity echoing and resonating, seeking to relife discipline in the contingent space – but we must remain concise, relevant, focussed and to the point while ensuring the rigour is there.
4. Recommendations.
a. Carry the can. We don't want anyone to throw their toys out of the pram completely on the grounds that this is a self-licking lolly pop, about as much use as a chocolate fireguard or tits on a fish. We must ensure that this reaches the lights-out parts of the organisation which are otherwise below the radar screen, because if we are going to hoot with the owls we have to be able to soar with the eagles, all the while remaining within our C2 – ensuring that everyone is singing from the same song sheet and kicking in the same chorus line (although not concurrently) in order to have an impactive approach.
b. Take one for the team. There are tunes to be played here, and definite memories of the future. We must look out for burning platforms and vapourware. Don’t be a trouble magnet; be a shock absorber, not a lightning conductor. Despite being on a sticky wicket, we must ensure we aren’t bowled a googly; instead we must throw them a spin pass to see if they catch it.
c. Roll over and take it. Remember: pain heals; chicks dig scars; glory lasts forever. There’s a bit of spaghetti to be done here, and if that fails don’t forget that bad things happen to bad people, unless they’re built like Japanese racing snakes in which case our OODA loop will be pounded and we’ll have to swallow our own smoke. We may be on a piece of string here, but it’s simply a case of Press to Test.
d. Bend over and invite them to ‘Please Park Your Bicycle Here’. As a heads up, this will be managed with a long screwdriver, so the wave of chaos will need to be surfed. It may not be our train set, but we need to get the engine straight before we can get the carriages on track. Hope is not a plan of action, but we should be able to leverage synergies and clean fatigue it nonetheless. The bête noire of working with OGDs doesn’t need to be like being handcuffed to a toddler with ADD. Don't lose the will to live – suck it up, and don't piss in your chips.
5. Summary. Robbing Peter to pay Paul may seem a little Janet and John, but it could go Pete Tong (and let’s not forget that he’s an expeditionary plenipotentiary of considerable sand) – so be sure to put pedal to the metal when the rubber hits the road. It is literally a Clapham omnibus test and 100% of the plan is subject to refinement: the market is open for bright ideas to be bottomed out. Not wishing to cartoon it, this Question Four moment is high-octane stuff, and flying a kite is pretty aerodynamic: these are principles, not articles of faith. We’ve all got skin in this game, so buoy rounding will be an important caveat to the strawman on whether we are to solutionise or soultioneer, but the two mission critical questions that most need to be tracked are: Who is holding the pen on this?; and Is the juice worth the squeeze? In sum, that’s me climbing out of the pulpit for now, d’accord?
{Signed electronically on Dii}
J Argon MBE MSc BA FRAeS DiiF ASAP JPA RAF
Wg Cdr
SO1 Transformation Projection Taxonomy
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=77392.0;topicseen
The verb to of seems to of crept into quite a few posts on YACF lately. It's horrific.
The verb to of seems to of crept into quite a few posts on YACF lately. It's horrific.
Writing of rather than 've is just a spelling error — the two words are pronounced identically, so it's an easy mistake to make.
No one who understands grammar would make that mistake though. It's glaringly awful.
No one who understands grammar would make that mistake though. It's glaringly awful.
I am not sure that it's an understanding of grammar that distinguishes those who get these things right from those who don't. Much of it is about recalling and applying rules and conventions rather than a true understanding of the underlying linguistics.
I think we use internal verbalisation to help recall those conventions, so it is understandable that words that sound similar or identical become confused. A two-year old will understand the difference between to and too but may go though adult life confusing them in written form. See also (evident in this forum), past and passed; worse and worst; er and err. People understand the difference between those pairs but may select the wrong (near) homophone.
Of is pronounced "ov". 've is pronounced "uv".
I reckon the difficulty is following formal grammar rules - not grammar itself, which is mostly learned by example or comes naturally. Which I would guess is the premise of that book.
Small children are programmed to learn language - any & every language, whatever's being spoken around them. Turn a four year old loose with a bunch of other children who speak a different language, & the results are awesome. The speed with which the new language is learned is mind-boggling.
Of is pronounced "ov". 've is pronounced "uv".
If that's true for you (and count me skeptical) then you have an unusual accent. For most English speakers in the UK, of is pronounced /ʌv/ (/ʌ/ as in mud or dull). Listen to this BBC video (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23274432), where at 0:38 the reporter says "much of it". Or to this one (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22927683), where at 0:42 Dave Brailsford says, "bunch of schoolfriends".
True, but I think we frequently use heuristics to recall phrases rather than construct them from first principles, even for "simple cases". People tend not to say "I could at done..." even though "at" is just as incorrect as "of" and as easy to say. It's its similarity of sound to "have" that leads to their mixing. I sometimes find myself using the wrong too/to/two when writing, even though I know the difference between them. There's something going on in our brains other than grammar neurones sorting out which word to pick from the pile.I think you're not right about this. All the people I know who use of instead of have/'ve genuinely don't know they're doing anything wrong. They've never been taught grammar properly and they don't know they're saying "could have/would have/should have." They've never been taught how to form it and therefore how to write it, so they're going by what they've heard and they genuinely believe it's could of/would of/should of.
It depends, doesn't it, on the stress? "He didn't do that". "But he must of". The "of" could be [ə] (unstressed) or [ɔ].I'm confused. It shouldn't be an "of" at all. It should be "But he must have".
I'm confused. It shouldn't be an "of" at all. It should be "But he must have".
The verb to of seems to of crept into quite a few posts on YACF lately. It's horrific.
Writing of rather than 've is just a spelling error — the two words are pronounced identically, so it's an easy mistake to make.
No one who understands grammar would make that mistake though. It's glaringly awful.
I refused to use the possessive apostrophe from when I was about 12, & discovered its origins. None of my English teachers ever objected, though some other teachers did.Small children are programmed to learn language - any & every language, whatever's being spoken around them. Turn a four year old loose with a bunch of other children who speak a different language, & the results are awesome. The speed with which the new language is learned is mind-boggling.
Indeed. And then we go and beat the enthusiasm out of them with apostrophes.
Yes. Sorry. It shouldn't be 'of'. But if it is and is used in speech, can you tell the difference? I would suggest yes, sometimes.It depends, doesn't it, on the stress? "He didn't do that". "But he must of". The "of" could be [ə] (unstressed) or [ɔ].I'm confused. It shouldn't be an "of" at all. It should be "But he must have".
When he finally confesses, we will know that he had done it, not that he of done it.
Of/have was treated as a spelling mistake. Which, with hindsight, makes me cringe.
It's not really grammar, but manners.
And to split your infinitives? :hand: :o ;) ;D
I agree that you can very often hear the difference. However, you will only hear a difference if you know what you are listening for! If you're expecting "of", you will hear it whenever you choose, whatever the speaker intended.Yes. Sorry. It shouldn't be 'of'. But if it is and is used in speech, can you tell the difference? I would suggest yes, sometimes.It depends, doesn't it, on the stress? "He didn't do that". "But he must of". The "of" could be [ə] (unstressed) or [ɔ].I'm confused. It shouldn't be an "of" at all. It should be "But he must have".
When he finally confesses, we will know that he had done it, not that he of done it.
Not really grammar, but spelling: Metro again had a mention of 'Polari' this morning. Good heavens, it's great that underground gay culture gets so many positive mentions in a widely read paper, but couldn't they just manage to spell 'Palare' correctly? It was originally a mangling from European languages, and was usually said with a long first 'a' (hence the occasional contemporary spelling of 'parlare', like 'parler').It might be more complicated than that. (http://www.ling.lancs.ac.uk/staff/paulb/polari/home.htm)
Just stop it, will you? It's like hipsters are trying to appropriate Queer culture without understanding it.
1967 K. Williams Diary 28 Mar. (1993) 300 We walked right into Dennis ‘My dear I know Danny La Rue terribly well..& introduced Tennessee Williams to loads of trade’ etc. etc. & so we got landed with the round of drinks and the polari.
Fair enough. But I never encountered that spelling until a couple of years ago. Palare was the dominant one for most of the period.
All of those have a as the second letter, and four have an r after it. How can people mistake this for the o? That's my real irritation.
What did you object to about its origins?If we did it for every letter lost from Middle English, we'd have apostrophes everywhere, which would be silly, I also thought it pandered to the idiots peddling the "It shows the omission of 'hi' as in 'John his horse'" nonsense, which I though had helped to perpetuate it.
Hear hear!And to split your infinitives? :hand: :o ;) ;D
If ever a grammar rule deserved to be broken, it's that one. I do it as a matter of principle. :)
If the son's Jack Whitehall, yes.It's not really grammar, but manners.
Is it well mannered to dogmatically humiliate your son on national TV like that?
It's like hipsters are trying to appropriate Queer culture
What's striking in that list of core words from Palari/palare/polari/whatever is how many of them have entered mainstream English. "Send up" isn't even slang, is it? The inclusion of "cod" to mean "awful" seems rather similar to "codswallop" and "cod piece" and other fishy slang, which makes me wonder how much of that list actually originated as, er, this gay slang beginning with P.
It's like hipsters are trying to appropriate Queer culture
Didn't the Queers appropriate it from the Punch & Judy men?
Yiddish is causing me quandaries right now. I'm reading some short stories by Isaac Bashevis Singer and each one is translated from the Yiddish by a different person in a different way. This is fine when purely Yiddish or Hebrew terms are used, as I don't know them anyway! But most of the stories are set in Frampol, which is a real town in Poland - I've never been there but I lived in the region and I've been to lots of the places mentioned. So in one story we have Zamosc and in another Zamoshoh. The first is the Polish spelling, bar diacritics, but the second - is that a reproduction of the Yiddish pronunciation? Is the "oh" a misprint for "ch"? Does Yanover refer to the town of Janów or possibly to Janówa or even Janowo? Almost certainly the first as it's the next town but the others are far away. Not really a problem and the logic of presenting Janów as Yanover for an English-speaking audience who don't know the places is clear - but then a word like halacha is used, which apparently is something to do with Jewish religious law - is that "halatcha" as if it was English or "halakha" as if it was written in Polish? Or maybe something else?What's striking in that list of core words from Palari/palare/polari/whatever is how many of them have entered mainstream English. "Send up" isn't even slang, is it? The inclusion of "cod" to mean "awful" seems rather similar to "codswallop" and "cod piece" and other fishy slang, which makes me wonder how much of that list actually originated as, er, this gay slang beginning with P.It's like hipsters are trying to appropriate Queer culture
Didn't the Queers appropriate it from the Punch & Judy men?
Quite. Even the name Palare indicates that it's a magpie language, using elements of foreign languages - some picked up on the newly fashionable foreign holidays, some from immigrant communities in London (notably Yiddish), Cockney rhyming slang, backslang from the market porters etc etc.
So in one story we have Zamosc and in another Zamoshoh. The first is the Polish spelling, bar diacritics, but the second - is that a reproduction of the Yiddish pronunciation? Is the "oh" a misprint for "ch"?
I think there are two ways you can go, at least with the place names: you can use the conventional Polish spelling or you can transliterate the Yiddish into something that represents the pronunciation to an English speaker. The first is accurate, checkable and reproducible, but doesn't really help most people reading the stories; the second is vague and subjective but potentially more comprehensible to the average reader. Lack of consistency is a problem and both rely on knowing what the original name is. Sometimes the inconsistency is in the source - I've encountered this problem with Japanese names in Polish documents I've been translating into English. Have they been declined as if they were Polish? Sometimes they have, sometimes not, and sometimes they've been transliterated into an English spelling - which then might have been subjected to Polish declinations! If you're not familiar with the original it can be easy to accidentally mangle a name.
My sons personal statement for UCAS. Full of commas in the wrong places, incorrect use of apostrophes, semicolons sprinkled in seemingly at random and incorrect capitalisations of the first letter of words. Worse it had been run past his tutor and the head of year both of whom had pronounced it excellent. Perhaps they should run them all past the head of English as well ....chip off the old block?
My sons personal statement for UCAS. Full of commas in the wrong places, incorrect use of apostrophes, semicolons sprinkled in seemingly at random and incorrect capitalisations of the first letter of words. Worse it had been run past his tutor and the head of year both of whom had pronounced it excellent. Perhaps they should run them all past the head of English as well ....chip off the old block?
Fine, as long as you're consistent. There's no good reason for the possessive apostrophe. Refusing to use it didn't stop me getting a grade one English language O level, back in the days of six passing grades.My sons personal statement for UCAS. Full of commas in the wrong places, incorrect use of apostrophes, semicolons sprinkled in seemingly at random and incorrect capitalisations of the first letter of words. Worse it had been run past his tutor and the head of year both of whom had pronounced it excellent. Perhaps they should run them all past the head of English as well ....chip off the old block?
Oh hell !
2) Speech marks for emphasis.
I annoy my children in lots of ways, but one of them is to say that I'll be the judge of their morality when they answer 'good' to a 'How are you?'.
I annoy my children in lots of ways, but one of them is to say that I'll be the judge of their morality when they answer 'good' to a 'How are you?'.
I thought you plant trees. Does installing them imply that these are software trees?
I dare say Gareth will be along in a minute to cite some 17th-century example
of good being used as an adverb
In "I'm well" and "I'm good", "well" and "good" are adjectives, not adverbs. That's because you can say "I'm X" when X is an adjective ("I'm happy", "I'm busy") but not when X is an adverb ("*I'm happily", "*I'm busily").
In "I'm well" and "I'm good", "well" and "good" are adjectives, not adverbs. That's because you can say "I'm X" when X is an adjective ("I'm happy", "I'm busy") but not when X is an adverb ("*I'm happily", "*I'm busily").
I'm going to argue the toss on this one... In the intended sense (ie in answer to the question "How are you?"), good modifies the verb "to be", hence is an adverb.
First, you can't substitute other adverbs for good (if you try, you get ungrammatical sentences like "*I am happily" or "*I am busily"). Second, you can't substitute other verbs for am (if you try, you get ungrammatical sentences like "*I exist good" or "*I run good"). Third, the sentence "I am X" is perfectly grammatical when X is an adjective: you can say "I am tall" or "I am happy".
You seem to be implicitly relying on a theory whereby a how question must be answered with an adverb, but that's also wrong. You wouldn't answer "How was the meal?" with "*It was tastily."
As a parent who habitually responds with 'is that like safely or actually safely? In what way is it like?' I would happily appropriate that.
The problem is not that the examples ("*I am happily" and "*I am busily") are ungrammatical, only that they make no sense in English.
The third case is an elliptical idiom, thus a quirk rather than a paradigm. What you are actually saying is: "I am [a] tall/happy [person]." Logically, the subject and object of the sentence are identical, hence don't need to be mentioned twice.
That fails for the same reason as your first case above. In English, tastily is not an adverb that can apply to a state of being.
(Tbh, I'm struggling to think of a verb that "tastily" could modify in a meaningful way.)
One elementary mode of cooking was passed down from the prehistoric Indians to their descendants in all habitats, that of cooking directly on the hot coals and embers of a fire. This simple, non-utensil form of cooking, broiled meats tastily, evenly, and well.
You come across older (18th/19th century?) examples such as "How was the meal?" "It tasted very well" where now we would say "It tasted very good". I'd say that "well" is an adverb here describing the way the meal tasted and "good" is an adjective describing the meal itself. In practice the meaning is the same in both cases.
As a parent who habitually responds with 'is that like safely or actually safely? In what way is it like?' I would happily appropriate that.
My advice to your offspring would be to indicate the ambiguity that results in making every statement a simile by ensuring every sentence is delivered with an interrogative inflection. If they wish to modify emphasis to indicate certainty, just insert the word 'literally' in front of 'like'.
/me removes jo from christmas list.
If you think sentences of the form "I am ADVERB" are grammatical, then you should be able to illustrate it with examples (other than the ones we are disputing, of course).
The modern grammatical analysis of "I am X" is that X is a predicative expression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predicative_expression) — a clause which expresses a property of a noun (in this case the subject "I"). Predicative expressions can take several forms: they can be adjectives ("I am tall"), nouns ("I am a walrus"), prepositional clauses ("I am in trouble"), but they can't be adverbs like "happily".
Quote(Tbh, I'm struggling to think of a verb that "tastily" could modify in a meaningful way.)
From Living Like Indians by Allan A. Macfarlan:QuoteOne elementary mode of cooking was passed down from the prehistoric Indians to their descendants in all habitats, that of cooking directly on the hot coals and embers of a fire. This simple, non-utensil form of cooking, broiled meats tastily, evenly, and well.
Isn't it time for a grandma that makes you cringe?
/me removes jo from christmas list.
I'm literally like whatever?
Have we done "can I get a tall skinny latte?"? No, you can't, you're not allowed behind the counter.
My dictionary includes to receive as one definition of get and uses I got a letter from my fiancé as the example sentence. If the examiner (or the marker) gives a grade then you receive or get a grade. Likewise, if you receive a reply it could be said that you get (or got) a reply.
Harrumph. I think Gareth was gently pointing out where my original statement was wrong.
I'll not get upset about it.
I didn't question Gareth's comment on the latte as I agreed with it. I was just advertising my ignorance by not understanding his two other examples using the word get. Time for bed, I think.
Do you have fine, limp, breaking hair?
With advice, help and support we can improve it
Call for an appointment
I didn't think it was wrong. Certainly, unless you have very long arms you can't get a latte from the only side of the counter you're allowed on.
I didn't think it was wrong. Certainly, unless you have very long arms you can't get a latte from the only side of the counter you're allowed on.
Similarly, unless you have very long arms, you can't get a reply to a letter, right?
To be completely clear, one of the many meanings of get, one that is found in every good dictionary, is "to receive". This is sense 10a in the OED. It's perfectly standard English to get a grade, a letter, a tip, an answer, a reward, a gift. And if you can get all of these things, surely you can get a coffee? To complain about "can I get a latte?" on the grounds that the speaker's arms are not long enough, seems to me to show such wilful misunderstanding that I doubt it can be sincere. How can you call yourself a fluent English speaker if you have such trouble with this very minor ambiguity?
I'm very much aware of the manifold meanings of get ... There is in fact no real problem in the instance given.
If this word has (at least) 10 OED-approved meanings, then there are probably situations where it will create uncertainty. The "latte incident" appears to be one of them.
If this word has (at least) 10 OED-approved meanings, then there are probably situations where it will create uncertainty. The "latte incident" appears to be one of them.
There are 68 senses of get in the OED, so nearly every use of the word has lots of ambiguity. But there's nothing particularly special about get in this respect: most common English words have multiple meanings. Ambiguity is inherent in the language, and coping with ambiguity is a mark of fluency in the language.
So I'm puzzled by the comments (from Tim Hall originally and later from T42—though possibly repudiated in the latter case) where posters claimed to be having trouble with the use of get in the sentence "can I get a latte?" Either these comments are confessing to a surprising level of disfluency in English, or they are being insincere in their claim not to understand this meaning of the word get. (I guess there's a third possibility: they really do understand the meaning of the word, but they object to some other aspect of the word—perhaps its register, or its association with American usage—but they have trouble explaining that, and light on the lexical ambiguity as a way out of the difficulty. But I don't know: as I say, I'm puzzled.)
I should be careful about coming down too hard here: difficulty with lexical ambiguity resolution could be due to language impairment or autism spectrum disorder. So I apologise if that's the case for anyone posting here.
Re my "long arms" comment: that was, of course, interpreting get from the point of view of the barista's reply.
You say "there's nothing particularly special about get in this respect: most common English words have multiple meanings."If this word has (at least) 10 OED-approved meanings, then there are probably situations where it will create uncertainty. The "latte incident" appears to be one of them.
There are 34 major and 94 minor senses of get in the OED, so nearly every use of the word has lots of ambiguity. But there's nothing particularly special about get in this respect: most common English words have multiple meanings. Ambiguity is inherent in the language, and coping with ambiguity is a mark of fluency in the language.
So I'm puzzled by the comments (from Tim Hall originally and later from T42—though possibly repudiated in the latter case) where posters claimed to be having trouble with the use of get in the sentence "can I get a latte?" Either these comments are confessing to a surprising level of disfluency in English, or they are being insincere in their claim not to understand this meaning of the word get. (I guess there's a third possibility: they really do understand the meaning of the word, but they object to some other aspect of the word—perhaps its register, or its association with American usage—but they have trouble explaining that, and light on the lexical ambiguity as a way out of the difficulty. But I don't know: as I say, I'm puzzled.)
I should be careful about coming down too hard here: difficulty with lexical ambiguity resolution could be due to language impairment or autism spectrum disorder. So I apologise if that's the case for anyone posting here.
Yet in your post above - with its many words! - I didn't sense any ambiguities.
OK, fair point. but I still believe that with its "34 major and 94 minor senses of get in the OED" this tiddler can create a LOT* of ambiguity. Hence it's a word to avoid where practicable.Yet in your post above - with its many words! - I didn't sense any ambiguities.
There are many ambiguities (just from the first paragraph, consider lots, common, inherent, language, coping and mark), but you're a fluent English speaker so you have no difficulty picking among these meanings to find an interpretation that makes good sense.
Re my "long arms" comment: that was, of course, interpreting get from the point of view of the barista's reply.
Yes, I got that, thank you. What I'm saying is that a barista who replied in that way would be misunderstanding or insincere.
Insincere? I wouldn't put it that way
Insincere? I wouldn't put it that way, but I'd say that he might just be an Eng. Lang. moonlighter administering a deserved correction by deliberately misinterpreting the request.
Insincere? I wouldn't put it that way, but I'd say that he might just be an Eng. Lang. moonlighter administering a deserved correction by deliberately misinterpreting the request.
Deliberate misinterpretation is a form of insincerity (the OED says "insincere, adj. assuming a false guise in speech or conduct" which seems to accurately describe someone who is pretending to misinterpret). But more importantly, your phrase "deserved correction" assumes what's under dispute here. How can a deliberate misinterpretation possibly be a "correction"? If the question was understood, what is there to correct?
Should the aim be to simply understand? In a real-life coffee-shop, perhaps
The joy and irritation of English is how it can be twisted, mangled, subverted, inverted and still make sense. Of course, the English lost control of English some time ago. Here's some twisted language for you:-I, up and doing,
Me up at does
out of the floor
quietly Stare
a poisoned mouse
still who alive
is asking What
have i done that
You wouldn’t have
The joy and irritation of English is how it can be twisted, mangled, subverted, inverted and still make sense. Of course, the English lost control of English some time ago. Here's some twisted language for you:-I, up and doing,
Me up at does
out of the floor
quietly Stare
a poisoned mouse
still who alive
is asking What
have i done that
You wouldn’t have
out of the door,
calmly look at
a poisoned mouse,
who, still alive,
is asking, What
have I done that
you wouldn't have?
I'd love to know the actual answer Ian H!
I'd love to know the actual answer Ian H!
You 'd have to ask the American poet, E.E. Cummings.*
*Cue for someone to get tiresome about capitals.
I'd love to know the actual answer Ian H!
You 'd have to ask the American poet, E.E. Cummings.*
*Cue for someone to get tiresome about capitals.
I can be tiresome at 1 in the morning after a long day's drinking.
Oh, I believe you mean e e cummings.
Yah boo.
The OED says:Quote from: OEDearly doors
A. n. In a theatre, etc.: a period of admission ending some time before the performance begins, during which a wider selection of seating is available, usually for a higher price. Now hist.
B. adv. Early on; near the beginning. Freq. in the context of Association Football.
First quote for sense A is from 1883; for sense B from 1979.
The results are in! Your inner pedant is
80% under control
You can tollerate most mistakes.
http://toys.usvsth3m.com/control-your-inner-pedant/Is that part of the test?QuoteThe results are in! Your inner pedant is
80% under control
You can tollerate most mistakes.
Actually, my inner pedant wanted to point out that several of the examples aren't actually misteaks.
http://toys.usvsth3m.com/control-your-inner-pedant/Is that part of the test?QuoteThe results are in! Your inner pedant is
80% under control
You can tollerate most mistakes.
Actually, my inner pedant wanted to point out that several of the examples aren't actually misteaks.
He had been stricken with a heart attack while reading proofs. Perhaps he died of a printing error.
SanguivoriphiliaOuch! That's a horrible Latin/Greek hybrid. Try aimophagophilia, bdellophilia or bdelugmophilia. Love of, respectively, blood-eaters, bloodsuckers (specifically leeches, qv. bdellophobia, which is actually a word) and horrors and abominations. I like the last, with the echo of bdello-; "blood-sucking horror" is the mot juste.
.See ,for example,@crimershow .Yes! Everyone should see this. The website is here (http://here), for the far too many people who will need to catch up with the first two seasonries.
Did they look like Amy Johnson?
This lunchtime, I encountered a bit of a grammar issue which irked me. I was sitting in the cafe, and glanced across to the big chaps at the next table. I think they probably worked out. Anyway, one of them was wearing a nice looking flying jacket labelled in two places as 'Aviatrix'.I've seen a few adverts for US micro-brewers with a picture of a so-called 'brewster' with a bushy beard. Unless they're all like Steph, I think they're suffering from the same misunderstanding.
I've seen nonsense on t-shaped shirts before, but this grated more, for some reason.
You can expect a baby and its birth and plan elective surgery or medical investigations, I suppose.
Yes, I agree with the idea that it's becoming a sort-of collective noun. I almost always initially use 'this data' (or another singular indicator), cringe internally, and find another way of phrasing it.
I rather admired the guy on the wireless using it correctly and sticking with it: by the third or fourth repetition it was beginning to sound right. ('Right' as in 'not unusual' -it was always 'right' as in 'correct'!)
Thankfully correct usage was come out on top.???
Thankfully correct usage was come out on top.???
Its a double "pre" but it's correct and makes sense. Prepare has lost most of the sense of the original latin formation through its journey through Middle French to English. We don't have "pare" as a word for make so that pre-pare would mean make in advance or before."Here's one I made earlier" works so much better than "Here's one I prepared". ;D
Anyone know if the French use prepare or its equivalent and if it retains the original latin meaning or the English usage ?
I am doing an online course...
I am doing an online course...
Sorry to pick on you, rr, but this is a personal bugbear - the ubiquitous use of "doing" when an alternative verb might be more elegant.
Fora, stadia, genii etc are ugly and unwelcome pedanticisms.
I struggle with it too. I prefer to use "these data". But then, I still write, and sometimes say, "whom".
Where might he be taking it to?
Fora / Forums is contextual. If I was writing about Rome I would definitely use fora but about online stuff then forums. Not sure why but it would feel wrong otherwise.Because the meanings are different.
How do you make a word like media possessive without talking Latin?
What about the use of "education" where "training" is meant? Education tends to imbue broad, re-usable skills that can be applied in many areas. Training is more aimed at how to do specific tasks. Many companies now have "customer education" departments, when they mean "training". I'm not sure that "educating" customers that your product is best is appropriate; the word there is "indoctrination", surely?I think this is a fair criticism, but it's typical of marketing speak ("previously cherished" 2nd hand cars anyone?).
It does and it is.How do you make a word like media possessive without talking Latin?
Apostrophe-S seems fine to me.
The different meanings have a common etymology so it would be consistent to use the same plural form for both... except that "media" for "more than one psychic" sounds utterly ridiculous. And sounding ridiculous for the sake of pedantic correctness is generally to be avoided.
Do we train doctors? Or educate them? And do schools not teach any specifics?I'd have said that we educate doctors in human biology, and then train them to conduct specific surgery, or whatever. And no, schools don't do much training, because they don't know their pupils' future careers.
Hello,
Employer's who's staff who may be required to use Abrasive Wheels during the course of their everyday duties are required to comply with the Provision and Use of Work Equipment regulation's (PUWER) to ensure that their staff are competent in the safe use of this hazardous piece of equipment
I almost always treat data as plural to the extent I get surprised when someone else raises an eyebrow at my use of 'these data are...' etc. For me this is more than language pedantry. I deal with lots of data in my job and probably use the word 30+ times a day at work. I am usually discussing this in the context of how to process individual items within a dataset, and so it is handy to have a word that implies the plurality of the data. Whether or not there is more than one collection of data is often a moot point as this may be an arbitrary distinction based on file formats, collection organisation etc. So generally I have no need to make the distinction that Ian H refers to.
I still find myself referring to 'an item of data' rather than 'datum' when needing to reference the singular, but that is partly because in my line of work 'datum' is more commonly associated with a sea-level type benchmark for height measurements and geodesy.
The Cube has 48 hours of battery life and powers a 16 lumen LED bulb for an arc of light of 15m in length.
Glimpses of Prince George, seen here leaving hospital after his birth, are likely to be fleeing during the official tour
Saw a sign by some roadworks on Saturday's ride that made me think of this thread, would have stopped to take a pic but couldn't be bothered. The wording was:
"Slow down your speed"
???
Surely "reduce your speed" or "slow down your vehicle"? But "slow down your speed" just makes me itch.
I counted 12. Any more?I got 13 but one or two are more stylistic than pure grammar.
That's quite an achievement.
I counted 12. Any more?I got 13 but one or two are more stylistic than pure grammar.
That's quite an achievement.
It was the best of signs, it was the worst of signs.
Nowt to do with grammar, but I can just imagine the scene in the cafeteria:;D
Waitress: Here we are, love, your tea and scones.
Love: So where's the bubbly?
Waitress: Just coming up. [Pours milk into glass, inserts straw and blows bubbles.] There we are, dear.
Across the road is a wonderful poster in the window of the corner shop. It lists the fruit & veg they typically sell. All goes well until the last item: Pear's. Unless, of course, they keep the soap in the fresh fruit section, in which case I apologise for any false assumptions I have made.
The kilometre stones gave the place names in Urdu and the distances in Arabic numerals.That's ambiguous; does she mean the numerals we use and call Arabic or the numerals actually used in Arabic? I'd have presumed the first but Wikipedia shows numerals included in the Urdu alphabet so probably that, particularly as she was there in 1987.
Across the road is a wonderful poster in the window of the corner shop. It lists the fruit & veg they typically sell. All goes well until the last item: Pear's. Unless, of course, they keep the soap in the fresh fruit section, in which case I apologise for any false assumptions I have made.
Saw a sign by some roadworks on Saturday's ride that made me think of this thread, would have stopped to take a pic but couldn't be bothered. The wording was:That is the direct parallel of weatherpersons who refer to hot and cold temperatures.
"Slow down your speed"
???
Surely "reduce your speed" or "slow down your vehicle"? But "slow down your speed" just makes me itch.
Clearly the Post Office employ an uber-geek who was upset by the lack of verb in that sentence, so added the apostrophe to create one.
*Thought struck me while I was typing that: I'm sure Andrij or someone is going to complain about my use of "have" there. ;)
VI form is quite a traditional way to write it ???
No, it's just a college for unix geeks.
(emacs freeaks can just go and play with the traffic)
Re: use of 'VI' for 6th, Newham Sixth Form College here in Londinium is known as NewVIC.
Collective nouns are grammatically singular, I thought... ;)Indeed, but are increasingly being treated as plural.
Collective nouns are grammatically singular, I thought... ;)Indeed, but are increasingly being treated as plural.
Some of the nouns now given plural forms of verbs surprise me.
on the other hand, I have noticed an increasing tendency for writers to get confused halfway through a sentence. "People cannot get it through their head"
It as a pronoun for humans sounds... dehumanising. If you're talking about a particular child, you can use he or she. If you don't know the child then you can find another way to phrase the sentence, avoiding animate it and singular they.Many languages don't have male or female pronouns. Some distinguish between people & objects, but in many others everyone is 'it'.
If there were more than one man, you'd hope for more than one nose.
But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same in English now.It as a pronoun for humans sounds... dehumanising. If you're talking about a particular child, you can use he or she. If you don't know the child then you can find another way to phrase the sentence, avoiding animate it and singular they.Many languages don't have male or female pronouns. Some distinguish between people & objects, but in many others everyone is 'it'.
I've read a diary entry from a few hundred years ago, written after the death of a small child. The author was obviously heartbroken at the death of his beloved daughter - & consistently referred to her as 'it'. It wasn't at all dehumanising in his mind.
If there were more than one man, you'd hope for more than one nose.
Yesbutnobut... This is all sounding boringly familiar.... I'm sure we've done this discussion before so I won't labour the point.
We've done ellipsis litter before but that doesn't mean we can't do it again...
(Yours is fine, it's just reminded me of all the others...)
Ellipse or ellipses?
But have we done ellipsis singular / plural yet? It one of those comparatively rare instances where the the 'correct' written form of the plural is more ambiguous than the incorrect...Very good!
Ellipse or ellipses?
... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ...
[...] naff [...] Citoyen's [...] writing [...] can be safely ignored.
on the other hand, I have noticed an increasing tendency for writers to get confused halfway through a sentence. "People cannot get it through their head"
Nothing wrong with that, if you presume that the people have only one head each.
(Compare and contrast: "Men with big noses." / "Men with a big nose.")
Naturally, but despite US protestations to the contrary, firearms are not a natural part of the human anatomy.Clean up to isle 3 please - Coffee to be removed from keyboard
Naturally, but despite US protestations to the contrary, firearms are not a natural part of the human anatomy.
Naturally, but despite US protestations to the contrary, firearms are not a natural part of the human anatomy.And following on this, isn't ambiguity important here?
Does that mean all the men are grocers? Or even grocer's? :)Naturally, but despite US protestations to the contrary, firearms are not a natural part of the human anatomy.And following on this, isn't ambiguity important here?
US Cidzens have 0,1 or several guns.
Most humans have 1 nose. So you can say "the mens' noses" or "men with big noses" and it is implied that there are as many noses as men i.e. no confusion.
But "women with big guns" leaves a lot to ... er ... the imagination.
Naturally, but despite US protestations to the contrary, firearms are not a natural part of the human anatomy.And following on this, isn't ambiguity important here?
US Cidzuns have 0,1 or several guns.
Most humans have 1 nose. So you can say "the mens' noses" or "men with big noses" and it is implied that there are as many noses as men i.e. no confusion.
But "women with big guns" leaves a lot to ... er ... the imagination.
it is implied that there are as many noses as men i.e. no confusion.
I doubt that you will find yourself doing that too frequently.
I would infer that the aforesaid men had two noses each, and that whoever formulated the sentence didn't really know how to say so clearly.
I doubt that you will find yourself doing that too frequently.
True but that's missing the point somewhat.
"Men with a big nose and a small nose" is entirely clear and unambiguous if you follow the logic of it. You're all making this far more complicated than it needs to be.
I would infer that the aforesaid men had two noses each, and that whoever formulated the sentence didn't really know how to say so clearly.
It appears to be clear enough that you were able to make the correct inference.
I find myself yet again wanting to shout at train guards. The train will shortly be arriving AT, not INTO!
I find myself yet again wanting to shout at train guards. The train will shortly be arriving AT, not INTO!
Which station stop was that?
S | O | N | L | ||
G | E | ||||
O | A | ||||
D | D |
Radio 4 presenters: please learn the difference between "temporarily" and "temporally".
Some DII Users will have being unable to of had their UADs rebuilt. A fix has being delivered from engineering??? :facepalm:
From our Helldesk web page:QuoteSome DII Users will have being unable to of had their UADs rebuilt. A fix has being delivered from engineering??? :facepalm:
From our Helldesk web page:QuoteSome DII Users will have being unable to of had their UADs rebuilt. A fix has being delivered from engineering??? :facepalm:
They shouldhaveof written the message before shooting up.
The MPs include former children's minister Tim Loughton, Labour MP SAimon Danczuk, who wrote a book about the abuse perpetrated by late MP Cyril Smith, Green leader Caroline Lucas and Labour MP Tom Watson
Help me out here...
'You would need the Extended Diploma to achieve the 120 credits required for entry onto the Masters' course'
Master's
Masters'
Masters
or any of the above without the capital. This is relating to an MSc.
From Road.cc:
You can use them [Dura-Ace shifters] to shift up through multiple gears, so panicky monster-hill-round-a-blind-bend downshifts are easily accommodated.
I'm sure when I started cycling, shifting up meant to a smaller cog, which was called a higher gear. Nowadays, some people call that shifting down, which is logical because the chain physically moves down to a smaller cog, and you can also mathematically justify calling that a lower ratio. But it's confusing when you don't know which way someone means by "shifting down (or up)". Using both in one sentence is just silly!
Residents in a Leicestershire village have called for proposed solar farms in the area to be sighted elsewhere.
Not grammar per se, but I've just heard an appalling misuse of the word 'curate'. 'Select' or 'choose' would have been much better.
One of the exhibits at the Royal Academy Summer Exhibition has the less/fewer business wrong...
<snip>Nice oxymoron Wow ;).
I was just reading a Graun piece on the TdF and the commentator, one John Ashdown, used the wrong sort of peddle. He also named a town "Saffron Waldren". Surely these useless twats must do some homework?
"Banks can now borrow at low rates and on-lend that money."
On-lend? :o
onlend, v. Finance. To lend (borrowed money) to a third party.
Gif hwa his wæpnes oðrum onlæne þæt he mon mid ofslea, hie moton hie gesomnian, gif hie willað, to þam were.
[If anyone lends his weapon to another that he may slay someone with it, they may join together, if they will, in the weregild (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild).]
That Wendy Hurrell is a pretty enough gel but if she ever again tells me that the rain may lull in the early hours I will not be responsible for any subsequent defenestrations.
lull, v. 5. a. intr. Of the sea or wind: To become lulled, or gradually diminished in force or power. b. fig. To become quiescent or inactive.
Mr. Jaggers shook his head,—not in negativing the question, but in altogether negativing the notion that he could anyhow be got to answer it
The Social Media landscape is bludgeoning as we speak
Thinking of starting a campaign for the preservation of adverbs.
It could have the strapline "You wouldn't let it ly!"
Here's a point of view that doubtless is intended to be controversial.[/quote]
[quote from Will Self on Orwell (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28971276)]
Orwell...established once and for all in this essay that anything worth saying in English can be set down with perfect clarity such that it's comprehensible to all averagely intelligent English readers.
The only problem with this is that it's not true - and furthermore, Orwell was plain wrong...
Here's a point of view that doubtless is intended to be controversial.
[quote from Will Self on Orwell (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28971276)]
Orwell...established once and for all in this essay that anything worth saying in English can be set down with perfect clarity such that it's comprehensible to all averagely intelligent English readers.
The only problem with this is that it's not true - and furthermore, Orwell was plain wrong...
I enjoyed that. Yes, clearly intended to be controversial, and broadly rhetorical but he makes some good points - although I would suggest that Orwell has been displaced in recent years as the Supreme Mediocrity by Stephen Fry.
...My bold - in which I detect some irony ;)
I enjoyed that. Yes, clearly intended to be controversial, and broadly rhetorical but he makes some good points - although I would suggest that Orwell has been displaced in recent years as the Supreme Mediocrity by Stephen Fry.
"I was sat" and "Im sat"
now appear to be official BBC parlance.
ditto "stood"
I blame their move to Manchester.
BBC R5L are now worse than Talk Sport.
The teacher asked the class to come up with a sentence including the word contagious.
Johnny shoots his hand up "Our neighbour's painting his fence with a 1 inch brush and my dad says it's going to take the contagious"
I had a letter about eggcorns published in the Guardian several years ago. Hmph.
I think it was only after the TV series came out that I realised the phrase was not 'splitting image'. Frankly, neither 'splitting', spitting nor 'spit and image' carry any intrinsic meaning that I can discern, and I think it's that lack of 'logic' in the phrases that might be one reason for eggcorns.
Though eggcorn itself is a funny one.
Synchronicity!
One of Boss Caine's (York's answer to Springsteen) lyrics leapt out at me the other day, and now I know what to call it.
The lyric was "poking his head above the pulpit".
There should be an adjective pre-Madonnaite (pre-Madonnan?) referring to a return to the supposed golden period in popular music before Madonna, along the lines of pre-Raphaelite.
There should be an adjective pre-Madonnaite (pre-Madonnan?) referring to a return to the supposed golden period in popular music before Madonna, along the lines of pre-Raphaelite.
There should be an adjective pre-Madonnaite (pre-Madonnan?) referring to a return to the supposed golden period in popular music before Madonna, along the lines of pre-Raphaelite.
That's Sweet!
potato from out of space
Talking of eggcorns and suchlike. Part of headline from local rag:Quotepotato from out of space
Shew is an archaic form of show isn't it?
Past is shewn/shown, I thought.
Shew is not the past tense of show. (I ought to let this one pass, as it's dialect, but I'm still cringing).
Do you mean spelling or pronunciation? Because the old 'shew' didn't represent a different pronunciation, at least not in the last couple of hundred years.
Shew was pronounced like blow or grow, not blew or grew. Shew/shewn sounded like sew/sewn.
Shew is not the past tense of show. (I ought to let this one pass, as it's dialect, but I'm still cringing).
Shew is an archaic form of show isn't it?
Past is shewn/shown, I thought.
Aaah. So it's dialect, not the old spelling.Do you mean spelling or pronunciation? Because the old 'shew' didn't represent a different pronunciation, at least not in the last couple of hundred years.
Shew was pronounced like blow or grow, not blew or grew. Shew/shewn sounded like sew/sewn.
Pronounced like shoe.
(With a stalk of grass in the corner of your mouth.)
Shew is an archaic form of show isn't it?
Past is shewn/shown, I thought.
When Lt. Col. Larrington (retd.) was operating an MOD desk in the early seventies a sign by the reception desk of the building in which he toiled in the Service of Her Majesty read:
PASSES MUST BE SHEWN
I don't think they had any of the mucking around with different coloured light bulbs to denote "Threat Level" back in those days since it was automatically assumed that the Russkies and/or the Provos were going to bomb the fuck out of us anyway.
Shew is an archaic form of show isn't it?
Past is shewn/shown, I thought.
When Lt. Col. Larrington (retd.) was operating an MOD desk in the early seventies a sign by the reception desk of the building in which he toiled in the Service of Her Majesty read:
PASSES MUST BE SHEWN
I don't think they had any of the mucking around with different coloured light bulbs to denote "Threat Level" back in those days since it was automatically assumed that the Russkies and/or the Provos were going to bomb the fuck out of us anyway.
When I worked at HMCE in the 1980s there was a permanent notice displaying the "security level". By default it was "Black special". The fact that this was the alert state for probably at least 90% of the time I spent working there, I think the word "special" was a lie. If something is "special" it is out of the ordinary. In those days the colloquial meaning of "special", as in "special needs child" had not, so far as I recall, been coined.
This contrasts interestingly with the use of be a little further north (I've heard older Bristolians say you bist)
There's the Black Country
Oi am
yo am
her/him is...
Speaking of dialect, a locally born and bred friend and I were discussing the declension of to be in East Devon.
I'm
You'm
He'm or she'm - though occasionally 'er is (applied to any gender)
We'm
You'm
They'm
This contrasts interestingly with the use of be a little further north (I've heard older Bristolians say you bist)
The NYT calls Africans heading for Italy migrants, as if they're going back & forth every year like swallows. OK, the word does also apply to bods & beasts moving in one direction only, but it's most commonly used for Arctic Terns, lemmings, etc. Unless of course the NYT is taking their ultimate deportation into account.I think it's deliberate. They are Economic Migrants and therefore undeserving of our sympathies.
Emigrants or refugees would be much better.
Speaking of dialect, a locally born and bred friend and I were discussing the declension of to be in East Devon.
I'm
You'm
He'm or she'm - though occasionally 'er is (applied to any gender)
We'm
You'm
They'm
This contrasts interestingly with the use of be a little further north (I've heard older Bristolians say you bist)
I've told you a thousand times! Verbs conjugate, nouns decline!
Oxford Dictionary and I agreed in 100% of the "trick" set.
In the "devilishly difficult" set, the dictionary got two wrong.
Shouldn't it be p'ram' ?
Attaching technically correct apostrophes to commonly abbreviated words like piano, cello, bus just seems a bit "I'm smarter than you" to me. A bit like insisting on a circumflex in rôle or complaining about words that mix latin and Greek etymology (as seen on TV). Nobody likes a wiseacre.
Is there an accepted set of rules for these anomalies, or do we just muddle through?
www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/10678640_799754660064829_4742930850410394747_n.jpgClassic!
I could have posted it in thewww.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/10678640_799754660064829_4742930850410394747_n.jpgClassic!
Use (not to mention over-use) of the present historic tense.
As I write, some woman on R4 bleating about ancient Rome - "the generals are revolting" and "Caesar is getting quite concerned".
:sick:
R4 should have a style guide banning this sort of dumbing-down.
Use (not to mention over-use) of the present historic tense.
As they said in The Shed, verbing weirds language.
I think ***self is used more in the dative (and accusative) than the nominative. It is still wrong IME.
Gah, people using i.e. when they mean e.g. :demon:
As they said in The Shed, verbing weirds language.
I think ***self is used more in the dative (and accusative) than the nominative. It is still wrong IME.
Maybe I'm thick or sleepy or both but I find it hard to think of any legitimate usage other than as a reflexive or as emphasis. Oh, and as -what would you call it in general? - a personal identifier, as in I'm not feeling myself, he did it himself, etc.
I think ***self is used more in the dative (and accusative) than the nominative. It is still wrong IME.
Maybe I'm thick or sleepy or both but I find it hard to think of any legitimate usage other than as a reflexive or as emphasis. Oh, and as -what would you call it in general? - a personal identifier, as in I'm not feeling myself, he did it himself, etc.
"If you call back, ask to speak to myself". A former business partner did that to such an extent that I had to get rid of him.
Thanks, Sam. My laziness has travailed once more :)
Having reviewed this matter for you, I have been unable to evidence that you were notified of a MEAF applicable upon early redemption of your mortgage account.
QuoteHaving reviewed this matter for you, I have been unable to evidence that you were notified of a MEAF applicable upon early redemption of your mortgage account.
As they said in The Shed, verbing weirds language.
The normally-Excellent Shed quoting the godawful "Calvin & Hobbes" does not render the whole thing either Big or Clever >:(
As they said in The Shed, verbing weirds language.
The normally-Excellent Shed quoting the godawful "Calvin & Hobbes" does not render the whole thing either Big or Clever >:(
Now, now.
Back in the day, reading fare for visitors to The Smallest Room at Feanor Towers was Bloom County ( US political comic-strip, featuring Opus the penguin ); Calvin and Hobbes, and the RS catalogue ( when it was a single volume and you could design stuff in your head by leafing through the application notes it contained ).
Trufax.
erm... (http://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2014/oct/06/um-er-conversation-english-speakers-socio-linguistics-edinburgh-university)
erm... (http://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2014/oct/06/um-er-conversation-english-speakers-socio-linguistics-edinburgh-university)
Emergancy serviced were called to Honiton yesterday evening after a car collided into a building on the Hight Street.
Read more at http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Car-crashes-building-Honiton-Hight-Street/story-23056923-detail/story.html#C4TqokXbHzHvzxuu.99
Can we have this in the Spelling that etc etc.?
^--- There may have been fewer than expected, but there was more than one.
However Johnson – who aides say is “instinctively libertarian and not temporarily inclined to ban things” – hinted that he thought the plan was too interventionist.Not exactly grammar - maybe we need a "copy editing that makes you cringe" thread!
touring book storie's..
Unread postby ####### » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:07 am
What's good book's are out there about people's touring adventures ?
I'm looking at cycling home from syberia. . is there any other good reads.
thanks in advance.
From another forum not too far from here:Quotetouring book storie's..
Unread postby ####### » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:07 am
What's good book's are out there about people's touring adventures ?
I'm looking at cycling home from syberia. . is there any other good reads.
thanks in advance.
If was instead of were merits the regimental revolver, this one gets the full Danny Deever.
Dutch influence?
The Temperance Hotel: One of Honiton's only lodging establishments where alcohol was definitely not sold.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2wt0x7IgAAm43N.jpg)
From the dining hall, Blenheim School, Southend.
"I could care less"
It's cropped up in two books I have been reading recently and for some reason it particularly annoys me. It just doesn't make sense. I have no idea why our American cousins insist on using it.
Is 'It tastes wonderful' grammatically correct? It seems to irritate a tad, as I prefer 'it has a wonderful taste'.I think this is a lost battle, because there are too many acceptable grey areas.
"I could care less"
It's cropped up in two books I have been reading recently and for some reason it particularly annoys me. It just doesn't make sense. I have no idea why our American cousins insist on using it.
Is 'It tastes wonderful' grammatically correct? It seems to irritate a tad, as I prefer 'it has a wonderful taste'.
"I could care less"
It's cropped up in two books I have been reading recently and for some reason it particularly annoys me. It just doesn't make sense. I have no idea why our American cousins insist on using it.
I have had this discussion online with a number of USAnians. The most common response is a suggestion that I learn to spell properly/find dog/etc, but the usual sensible explanation is that it originated in its use as a sarcastic question: "I could care less?", with the unspoken rider "I don't think I could".
Unfortunately, it has lost that edge and is now just utter nonsense in its normal use.
Dammit! I hate it when someone beats me to an answer!"I could care less"
It's cropped up in two books I have been reading recently and for some reason it particularly annoys me. It just doesn't make sense. I have no idea why our American cousins insist on using it.
I have had this discussion online with a number of USAnians. The most common response is a suggestion that I learn to spell properly/find dog/etc, but the usual sensible explanation is that it originated in its use as a sarcastic question: "I could care less?", with the unspoken rider "I don't think I could".
Unfortunately, it has lost that edge and is now just utter nonsense in its normal use.
When Adam dalve, and Eve span, Who was than a gentle~man?
Wreak wrought wrought.
I wish the media would get that one wright.
Glide.
If it's like slide, then it's slid.
If it's like ride, then it's glode.
If it's like bide, it's glided.
Wreak wrought wrought.
I wish the media would get that one wright.
This ^^^^.
(The other issue, of course, is letting go of an obsession with grammatical pedantry. It only actually matters where it starts to interfere with understanding.)There's truth in that, of course. However, if the writer were well-placed to spot potential misunderstandings, there would never be any. The rules of grammar also help us to avoid the misunderstandings that we do not anticipate.
(The other issue, of course, is letting go of an obsession with grammatical pedantry. It only actually matters where it starts to interfere with understanding.)There's truth in that, of course. However, if the writer were well-placed to spot potential misunderstandings, there would never be any. The rules of grammar also help us to avoid the misunderstandings that we do not anticipate.
Good call. I've not read that in ages, though it's more about style and clarity in general than about strict grammar.
(The other issue, of course, is letting go of an obsession with grammatical pedantry. It only actually matters where it starts to interfere with understanding.)There's truth in that, of course. However, if the writer were well-placed to spot potential misunderstandings, there would never be any. The rules of grammar also help us to avoid the misunderstandings that we do not anticipate.
Good for you!(The other issue, of course, is letting go of an obsession with grammatical pedantry. It only actually matters where it starts to interfere with understanding.)There's truth in that, of course. However, if the writer were well-placed to spot potential misunderstandings, there would never be any. The rules of grammar also help us to avoid the misunderstandings that we do not anticipate.
They also create plenty of misunderstanding in the pursuit of perfection as authors contort sentences to avoid the swishing cane of Victorian grammar. Pedantry in such matters is also the main source of precariously elevated petardary. I'll start sentences with and, split infinitives wide enough to drive a bus through, and end on a deliciously dangling preposition.
Less cryptically, that's Fowler's Modern English Usage.+1
NB that "Modern" was originally 1926. It's been revised a couple of times and I find it reasonably interesting, but although it probably is the nearest thing to an authoritative text, it's not really a coursebook. Might also be worth looking at the Guardian and the Economist style guides, which are quite good in identifying tricky situations and giving consistent answers.
In some ways, the best way of getting this stuff ingrained is simply to read lots of conventionally well-written text. Broadsheet newspapers, literary fiction, periodicals like the Economist or Spectator or Prospect or New Statesman, some (relatively few) long-form blogs (I quite like Jack of Kent, and Charlie Stross's one at antipope.org). Read lots, and the good stuff gets ingrained while poor and ungrammatical writing just begins to feel unnatural.
(The other issue, of course, is letting go of an obsession with grammatical pedantry. It only actually matters where it starts to interfere with understanding.)
Daughter, who is at a (supposedly) good university has been given an essay in which she is asked to describe how a situation has been 'problematized'. WTF does that mean?
Good for you!(The other issue, of course, is letting go of an obsession with grammatical pedantry. It only actually matters where it starts to interfere with understanding.)There's truth in that, of course. However, if the writer were well-placed to spot potential misunderstandings, there would never be any. The rules of grammar also help us to avoid the misunderstandings that we do not anticipate.
They also create plenty of misunderstanding in the pursuit of perfection as authors contort sentences to avoid the swishing cane of Victorian grammar. Pedantry in such matters is also the main source of precariously elevated petardary. I'll start sentences with and, split infinitives wide enough to drive a bus through, and end on a deliciously dangling preposition.
American grammar nazis seem to be the worst, contorting sentences awfully to avoid the horror of a split infinitive. What do Strunk & White say on that?
American grammar nazis seem to be the worst, contorting sentences awfully to avoid the horror of a split infinitive. What do Strunk & White say on that?
American grammar nazis seem to be the worst, contorting sentences awfully to avoid the horror of a split infinitive. What do Strunk & White say on that?
This reminded me of something: Timespeak: Backward ran sentences until reeled the mind (http://shreevatsa.wordpress.com/2010/05/24/timespeak-backward-ran-sentences-until-reeled-the-mind/).
....I'm not sure American grammar nazis are any worse than British ones, at least they tend not to get their jackboots in a twist over 'crude Americanisms' and the like.P.S. "Problematize" is, of course, a crude Americanism, unlike our own dear 'problematise'.
Daughter, who is at a (supposedly) good university has been given an essay in which she is asked to describe how a situation has been 'problematized'. WTF does that mean?
Presumably, as in: how has this situation become a problem? That always used to work.
....I'm not sure American grammar nazis are any worse than British ones, at least they tend not to get their jackboots in a twist over 'crude Americanisms' and the like.P.S. "Problematize" is, of course, a crude Americanism, unlike our own dear 'problematise'.
Daughter, who is at a (supposedly) good university has been given an essay in which she is asked to describe how a situation has been 'problematized'. WTF does that mean?Presumably, as in: how has this situation become a problem? That always used to work.
No. Problematise has a specific meaning, so the question is 'Why has the situation been perceived to be a problem?'
Bah! They're inconsistent! You'll never find one writing 'cruizer', or 'cruizing'.....I'm not sure American grammar nazis are any worse than British ones, at least they tend not to get their jackboots in a twist over 'crude Americanisms' and the like.P.S. "Problematize" is, of course, a crude Americanism, unlike our own dear 'problematise'.
Unless, of course, you're of the Oxford persuasion, in which case -ize away.
Bah! They're inconsistent! You'll never find one writing 'cruizer', or 'cruizing'.....I'm not sure American grammar nazis are any worse than British ones, at least they tend not to get their jackboots in a twist over 'crude Americanisms' and the like.P.S. "Problematize" is, of course, a crude Americanism, unlike our own dear 'problematise'.
Unless, of course, you're of the Oxford persuasion, in which case -ize away.
Contrafibularities
I understand that I am leaving my child in the care of the responsible adult named above, whom will remain on the premises to ensure the above conditions are adhered to throughout the session.
The one I loved was "Passengers are requested to adhere to platform staff".
"Anyways".I like that one. I use it from time to time, though only for forum posts and similar, rather than in speech or actual writing. In my mind, I hear it in a Yorkshire-ish accent with a cross between a laugh and a sigh, to indicate that the topic has changed but it is just as inconsequential as before.
Daughter, who is at a (supposedly) good university has been given an essay in which she is asked to describe how a situation has been 'problematized'. WTF does that mean?
Pythonesque cod-Yorkshire to me. I think "would of" is born of universal ignorance rather than being specifically American, though lay for lie might well have drifted across the pond. I'm not sure I've come across way for away.
Daughter, who is at a (supposedly) good university has been given an essay in which she is asked to describe how a situation has been 'problematized'. WTF does that mean?
I suppose an example would be where language conveys meaning to the reader, but a caste of 'experts' attempts to occupy the space between the writer and the reader, by identifying 'problems', which only they can solve.
Once a problem has been created, there's a market for a solution. I believe universities would term this 'the dialectic', and it's a con-job that's been running for a while.
It was a feeble message but the Académie Française burst a few arteries and several members died of shock (although in their case it was some time before any difference was noticed). After that it had to pass into everyday use. Nowadays you hear people saying "il faut positiver", meaning make the best of it.
Daughter, who is at a (supposedly) good university has been given an essay in which she is asked to describe how a situation has been 'problematized'. WTF does that mean?
I suppose an example would be where language conveys meaning to the reader, but a caste of 'experts' attempts to occupy the space between the writer and the reader, by identifying 'problems', which only they can solve.
Once a problem has been created, there's a market for a solution. I believe universities would term this 'the dialectic', and it's a con-job that's been running for a while.
Some years ago Carrefour came up with an ad in which a woman proclaimed "Avec Carrefour, je positive" - meaning, supposedly, "with Carrefour I benefit". It was a feeble message but the Académie Française burst a few arteries and several members died of shock (although in their case it was some time before any difference was noticed). After that it had to pass into everyday use. Nowadays you hear people saying "il faut positiver", meaning make the best of it.
I could imagine "positivize" making into everyday English.
It was a feeble message but the Académie Française burst a few arteries and several members died of shock (although in their case it was some time before any difference was noticed). After that it had to pass into everyday use. Nowadays you hear people saying "il faut positiver", meaning make the best of it.
Proof that advertising does what it says on the tin. Does anyone in France still use "vachement" as in "vachement bon"?
Certainly. Related to saying "c'est vache", i.e. hard-nosed or underhand. 19th century according to some - siege of Paris etc. Nowt to do with advertising.
That was a reverse-engineered pun. Vachement is indeed still used freely, along with that delightful Frog expletive "Whore!"Certainly. Related to saying "c'est vache", i.e. hard-nosed or underhand. 19th century according to some - siege of Paris etc. Nowt to do with advertising.
Ah! I was told it came from the "vachement bon" slogan for La Vache Qui Rit in the 60s.
Pythonesque cod-Yorkshire to me.
You probably won't be using that one as an audax control, then.
Whereas, being West Riding, I'd use 'Any road', or 'Any road up'.
The pub we were in today had leaflets lying around advertising Burn's weekend.
Presumably something of Haggi's.Is he related to Ogri?
We were shocked by this wanton use of English last century,
' GPs will be 'mandated' to refer on dementia patients,This is one I think is bad, because it's not clear what it means. Have GPs been given the authority to refer on dementia patients or told it's mandatory? Even this I expect is clear in the context in which it needs to be understood, ie to GPs, who already know what they are allowed to do and have to do. I hope. (And without that context, "refer on" isn't clear either; does the on mean "refer them to the next person in the chain" or does it mean refer "on the subject of" the patients?) But jargon is like that - clear in the context to those who need to know, not to others.
There are plenty of uncontroversial uses of nouns-as-verbs : axing services / braking at stop signs. And although 'he pedalled to victory' is OK he 'topscored' is just lazy and innovation for its own sake - and to lend the writer some apparently superior skill in his area.:)
He penned a poem – is in common use
<sznip>
So step foward , Miss Nancy Sinatra who got us all off on the wrong foot in 1969 with ‘These boots were made for walking ‘
You been lying, when you oughtta been truthing !
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1385422_890770770963217_5636177806519638443_n.jpg?oh=33f2947eedab1573eeb0a4f45ca1dec9&oe=5567BC89&__gda__=1432695058_497c23eaef970ce6042186c4f81af23e)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1385422_890770770963217_5636177806519638443_n.jpg?oh=33f2947eedab1573eeb0a4f45ca1dec9&oe=5567BC89&__gda__=1432695058_497c23eaef970ce6042186c4f81af23e)
:facepalm:
Hats, like the burka, were obligatory headwear on Lewis for churchgoing women.
Peter May, The Blackhouse, set on the Isle of Lewis:QuoteHats, like the burka, were obligatory headwear on Lewis for churchgoing women.
I suspect that doesn't mean quite what you intended it to mean, Mr May. Either that or Lewis has changed a lot in the last couple of years.
I could commit murder when I see or hear 'could of' instead of 'could have' ! >:(
I could commit murder when I see or hear 'could of' instead of 'could have' ! >:(You were 4 days late.
Things are either feasible, or unfeasible.
Never seen or heard unfeasible. "Not feasible", yes. Had to check Chambers, though (I have it on the computer): years of talking furrin muddies the waters.
Anyway, I came in here to gripe about underway. It's under way, two words, said of a vessel that has way on her. Under weigh is similarly crap, but worse crap. Trust me, my father was an inveterate armchair sailor.
Never seen or heard unfeasible. "Not feasible", yes. Had to check Chambers, though (I have it on the computer): years of talking furrin muddies the waters.
Yebbut, tea in India is usually served in a way that's quite different from typical British tea. Small cup, very sweet, with cardamom - and other spices, but that's predominant. So it makes sense, in a British context, to call that 'chai'.Except that we've already borrowed it from Hindi/Urdu, as another word for plain ordinary tea, many years ago. "A cuppa char" was still in common use in the 1960s.
I'm saying that char and chai are not the same word.Although they used to be used interchangeably in English, for far longer than the current fashionista usage of 'chai'?
Meads Reach Bridge get’s cycle friendly coatinghttp://www.betterbybike.info/News/meads-reach-bridge/
"Caring people into change" is not grammatically correct, because the word "caring" is an adjective, when a verb is required. The word "coaxing" would be better employed in this context, or is this just a little too old-fashioned for the VRU?http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/06/glasgow-murder-rate-knife-gang-crime-police
Sticking with every Yacfer's favourite source of smug news, here's a grammar comment that made me cringe:Quote"Caring people into change" is not grammatically correct, because the word "caring" is an adjective, when a verb is required. The word "coaxing" would be better employed in this context, or is this just a little too old-fashioned for the VRU?http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/06/glasgow-murder-rate-knife-gang-crime-police
I'm with the Graun in this, I'm afraid. The person who thought up "Caring people into change" needs to be cared into the Clyde wearing depleted uranium wellies.
I'm with the Graun in this, I'm afraid. The person who thought up "Caring people into change" needs to be cared into the Clyde wearing depleted uranium wellies.
It's no different from "Bludgeoning people into change".
In that sentence, caring is the participle of the verb to care.
If you want to quibble, caring is usually intransitive (whereas bludgeoning is transitive).
In that sentence, caring is the participle of the verb to care.That may well be the case but I read it as "people who care like (are into) change". So which is best, snappiness or clarity?
If you want to quibble, caring is usually intransitive (whereas bludgeoning is transitive). But I'm with Cudzo - it's a snappy usage. The commenter is a muddle-headed pendant.
Bristol tenants plan demo after letting agents push for rent riseIt's really pretty obvious that it refers to 'letting agents', but for some reason I immediately thought 'why did they let the agents do that?' Which just goes to show that even prior knowledge and common usage is no proof against the reader's brain creating a crash blossom. :facepalm:
Beware sentences – such as this one – that dash about all over the place – it makes them look like a poem by Emily Dickinson.http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/sep/30/10-grammar-rules-you-can-forget
"It fits" is supposed to have been Carey Grant's answer as to why he had married his wife.
(It wasn't Carey Grant but some other movie star of that era - his name will do!)
certainly don't have the option on a fondleslab and I suspect most mobile devices' keyboards are similarly afflicted.
- ----------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------certainly don't have the option on a fondleslab and I suspect most mobile devices' keyboards are similarly afflicted.
Hold down the hyphen - – — to get en and em dashery.
• They keep quiet – about that, I mean — don't they?:)
Doesn't it work on my laptop. Dash it!
Just realised I repeated Ian H's post. For some reason I didn't notice it before writing mine.
Anyway, yes, discovering the alt keys on the iPhone was a revelation for me. It's worth experimenting to discover what else they've hidden away…
The 105 mm calibre is canonical?No, but it IS a round...
(http://legslarry.org.uk/BikeStull/coat_48.png)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-32672094
105mm 'canons'.
FFS.
Just realised I repeated Ian H's post. For some reason I didn't notice it before writing mine.
Mine was just quotingAnyway, yes, discovering the alt keys on the iPhone was a revelation for me. It's worth experimenting to discover what else they've hidden away…
I do think direct keyboard access as with Apple is more civilised than Windows unintuitive system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_code)
From today's MetroAnnoyingly, AIUI, wild boar covers both the male and female of the species. I don't know which is the more deadly.
"A wild boar caused mayhem.... The 55lb female intruder..."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-32672094
105mm 'canons'.
FFS.
Perhaps they use unexploded ordinance
55lb seems to me to be only a piglet. Now a 30 stone wold boar, that would be like a bull in a china shop.From today's MetroAnnoyingly, AIUI, wild boar covers both the male and female of the species. I don't know which is the more deadly.
"A wild boar caused mayhem.... The 55lb female intruder..."
From today's MetroAnnoyingly, AIUI, wild boar covers both the male and female of the species. I don't know which is the more deadly.
"A wild boar caused mayhem.... The 55lb female intruder..."
Indeed. Even 55kg isn't fully grown in domesticated pigs, baconers are slaughtered at about 100kg liveweight and breeding sows get much bigger than that.55lb seems to me to be only a piglet. Now a 30 stone wold boar, that would be like a bull in a china shop.From today's MetroAnnoyingly, AIUI, wild boar covers both the male and female of the species. I don't know which is the more deadly.
"A wild boar caused mayhem.... The 55lb female intruder..."
From today's MetroAnnoyingly, AIUI, wild boar covers both the male and female of the species. I don't know which is the more deadly.
"A wild boar caused mayhem.... The 55lb female intruder..."
Will you please ensure that you let either Malcolm or I know of any chess achievements of children who you tutor.
QuoteWill you please ensure that you let either Malcolm or I know of any chess achievements of children who you tutor.
Have I won?
"The Young Ones" with the incomparable Cliff Richard. This could explain the fact that I doubt that my lifelong cinema attendance has probably not exceeded an average of one attendance every four years.Now I be like, probably not doubt that he will no doubt in all probability not fail to miss the opportunity for some revenge.
In my view, a sentence using "favorite" as a verb is already clunky and inelegant - and American. However, I can see you are in a difficult editorial position if you are going to use articles which contain internet-speak.
Wouldn't 'bookmark' be a more appropriate verb for the context?
I can verb any noun.
In my view, a sentence using "favorite" as a verb is already clunky and inelegant - and American. However, I can see you are in a difficult editorial position if you are going to use articles which contain internet-speak.
I don't see it as a difficulty. Many nouns become verbs through common use and eventually take hold in more formal language despite resistance.
Ask yourself this: are you resisting the usage on strong grammatical grounds, or simply because it's a neologism?Wouldn't 'bookmark' be a more appropriate verb for the context?
QED. Once upon a time, using bookmark as a verb would have been similarly reviled.
(And the answer is no anyway: bookmarking applies to web pages, while favouriting applies to individual posts on social media sites.)
In my view, a sentence using "favorite" as a verb is already clunky and inelegant - and American. However, I can see you are in a difficult editorial position if you are going to use articles which contain internet-speak.
I don't see it as a difficulty. Many nouns become verbs through common use and eventually take hold in more formal language despite resistance.
Ask yourself this: are you resisting the usage on strong grammatical grounds, or simply because it's a neologism?
Neologisms are inevitable in a developing language, which English is. However, I don't think that means that because a neologism exists that I am required to approve of it.
how can you have any number of favo(u)rites?
But my original post just said I find it clunky and inelegant. I'm perfectly happy with that!
However, I don't think that means that because a neologism exists that I am required to approve of it.
:hand: 'phenomena' singular because it removes the ability to distinguish one from many alien visitations.
I came across "medias" recently ::-)
I came across "medias" recently ::-)
I came across "medias" recently ::-)
Can't be any worse than 'children'.
I came across "medias" recently ::-)
Can't be any worse than 'children'.
Uh?
Coming across children is very much frowned upon nowadays.I came across "medias" recently ::-)
Can't be any worse than 'children'.
Uh?
Isn't it more that the plural of child is childer, and children pluralises the plural?I came across "medias" recently ::-)
Can't be any worse than 'children'.
Uh?
Technically "children" is a double plural as originally "child" was one or more small peeps. The same as "sheep" where the singular an plural are the same.
Isn't it more that the plural of child is childer, and children pluralises the plural?I came across "medias" recently ::-)
Can't be any worse than 'children'.
Uh?
Technically "children" is a double plural as originally "child" was one or more small peeps. The same as "sheep" where the singular an plural are the same.
Plain English is mandatory for all of GOV.UK so please avoid using these words:
agenda (unless it’s for a meeting)
advancing
collaborate (use ‘working with’)
combating
commit/pledge (we need to be more specific – we’re either doing something or we’re not)
countering
deliver (pizzas, post and services are delivered – not abstract concepts like ‘improvements’ or ‘priorities’)
deploy (unless it’s military or software)
dialogue (we speak to people)
disincentivise (and incentivise)
empower
facilitate (instead, say something specific about how you’re helping)
focusing
foster (unless it’s children)
impact (don’t use this as a synonym for ‘have an effect on’, or ‘influence’)
initiate
key (unless it unlocks something. A subject/thing isn’t ‘key’ – it’s probably ‘important’)
land (as a verb only use if you’re talking about aircraft)
leverage (unless in the financial sense)
liaise
overarching
progress (as a verb – what are you actually doing?)
promote (unless you’re talking about an ad campaign or some other marketing promotion)
robust
slimming down (processes don’t diet – we are probably removing x amount of paperwork etc)
streamline
strengthening (unless it’s strengthening bridges or other structures)
tackling (unless it’s rugby, football or some other sport)
transforming (what are you actually doing to change it?)
utilise
Avoid using metaphors – they don’t say what you actually mean and lead to slower comprehension of your content. For example:
drive (you can only drive vehicles; not schemes or people)
drive out (unless it’s cattle)
going forward (it’s unlikely we are giving travel directions)
in order to (superfluous – don’t use it)
one-stop shop (we are government, not a retail outlet)
ring fencing
With all of these words you can generally replace them by breaking the term into what you’re actually doing. Be open and specific.
Not really grammar, but the discussion reminded me of the GDS Style guide (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/style-guide/a-to-z-of-gov-uk-style), especially the "Words to Avoid" section:Quote[...]
Avoid using metaphors – they don’t say what you actually mean and lead to slower comprehension of your content.
[...]
One thing that literature would be greatly the better for
Would be a more restricted employment by the authors of simile and metaphor.
Authors of all races, be they Greeks, Romans, Teutons or Celts,
Can't seem just to say that anything is the thing it is but have to go out of their way to say that it is like something else.
What does it mean when we are told
That that Assyrian came down like a wolf on the fold?
In the first place, George Gordon Byron had enough experience
To know that it probably wasn't just one Assyrian, it was a lot of Assyrians.
However, as too many arguments are apt to induce apoplexy and thus hinder longevity.
We'll let it pass as one Assyrian for the sake of brevity.
Now then, this particular Assyrian, the one whose cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold,
Just what does the poet mean when he says he came down like a wolf on the fold?
In heaven and earth more than is dreamed of in our philosophy there are great many things.
But I don't imagine that among them there is a wolf with purple and gold cohorts or purple and gold anythings.
No, no, Lord Byron, before I'll believe that this Assyrian was actually like a wolf I must have some kind of proof;
Did he run on all fours and did he have a hairy tail and a big red mouth and big white teeth and did he say Woof Woof?
Frankly I think it is very unlikely, and all you were entitled to say, at the very most,
Was that the Assyrian cohorts came down like a lot of Assyrian cohorts about to destroy the Hebrew host.
But that wasn't fancy enough for Lord Byron, oh dear me no, he had to invent a lot of figures of speech and then interpolate them,
With the result that whenever you mention Old Testament soldiers to people they say Oh yes, they're the ones that a lot of wolves dressed up in gold and purple ate them.
That's the kind of thing that's being done all the time by poets, from Homer to Tennyson;
They're always comparing ladies to lilies and veal to venison,
And they always say things like that the snow is a white blanket after a winter storm.
Oh it is, is it, all right then, you sleep under a six-inch blanket of snow and I'll sleep under a half-inch blanket of unpoetical blanket material and we'll see which one keeps warm,
And after that maybe you'll begin to comprehend dimly
What I mean by too much metaphor and simile.
I had no idea childer was a real word. I thought it was just fboab family lore that the loinfruit of my parents are collectively known as childers.
From a notice in a school lavatory:-A flush.
"The cost of blockages are very expensive to clear."
Where do you start with that one?
From a notice in a school lavatory:-A flush.
"The cost of blockages are very expensive to clear."
Where do you start with that one?
Is it true that there is only one lake in the Lake District?That's OK. It's not the Lakes District ;D
I had no idea childer was a real word. I thought it was just fboab family lore that the loinfruit of my parents are collectively known as childers.
'And slew the little childer' features in a well-known Christmas carol, I thought.
I had no idea childer was a real word. I thought it was just fboab family lore that the loinfruit of my parents are collectively known as childers.
'And slew the little childer' features in a well-known Christmas carol, I thought.
Sounds real Christian. Let God sort 'em out.
From the Christmas Carol, “Unto us is born a Son”. “...This did Herod sore affray, / And grievously bewilder, / So he sent the word to slay / And slew the little childer.”source (http://www.lewisiana.nl/abolquotes/)
Quote from: Ogden Nash
That's one of my two absolute favourite poems. I even used it in an observed year 5 lesson when I was on placement during teacher training!
(The other one is "The Flying Bum", by the way)
Quote from: Ogden Nash
That's one of my two absolute favourite poems. I even used it in an observed year 5 lesson when I was on placement during teacher training!
(The other one is "The Flying Bum", by the way)
PM bod was interviewing some African-USAnian fellow about the church mass shooting yesterday. The interviewee allowed as how he was familiar with said church because one of his relatives had been funeralized there.
I was on yhe M25 at the time and thus unable to throw anything at the motor-car radio.
when people use Been instead of Being... and even worse, on a public notice! That, and inappropriate apostrophe use/misuse/lack of use.
where my regular running route crosses the car park for the local racecourse (which is open for dog walkers to use) there is a sign which reads:
"Failure to pick up your dogs mess will result in the gate been locked"
this makes me quite cross :demon: :demon:
Fair point there - I'm afraid that my ire got the better of me. It had nothing to do with secretly typing on my mobile during a meeting, at all, I promise! ;)when people use Been instead of Being... and even worse, on a public notice! That, and inappropriate apostrophe use/misuse/lack of use.
where my regular running route crosses the car park for the local racecourse (which is open for dog walkers to use) there is a sign which reads:
"Failure to pick up your dogs mess will result in the gate been locked"
this makes me quite cross :demon: :demon:
How do you feel about starting sentences with a capital letter and ending them with a punctuation mark?
In my view, a sentence using "favorite" as a verb is already clunky and inelegant - and American. However, I can see you are in a difficult editorial position if you are going to use articles which contain internet-speak.
I don't see it as a difficulty. Many nouns become verbs through common use and eventually take hold in more formal language despite resistance.
Ask yourself this: are you resisting the usage on strong grammatical grounds, or simply because it's a neologism?
I reckon you can use any word you like as a verb as long as it's comprehensible, not excruciating, and not pompously overblown (as in "gifted").
NYT on Francis's late encyclical reported him as saying that global warming results in people being dislocated. Makes a change from the old method with a horse at each corner.
I reckon you can use any word you like as a verb as long as it's comprehensible, not excruciating, and not pompously overblown (as in "gifted").
Once you removed words that fall into one of these categories, though, that doesn't leave many ;D Albeit that the overblownity or excruciatitude is entirely subjective.
"Gifted" might work in a discussion between Alan Shearer and Gary Lineker about a particularly feeble piece of defending resulting in the simplest of tap-in goals, but not in most circumstances descibed in this thread. Trousering has been around for yonks and to me has conveyed the meaning than the sum of money trousered is rather more than just small change, which would be pocketed instead.
I vote for using a more English alternative to "to gift". How about "to present", with the stress on the first syllable. That should clear things up.Excellent! To receive a present then becomes "to absent". The people involved are then the "presenter" and the "absenter". Alternatively, the person who has something "presented" to them becomes the "presentee" with the one who no longer has it being the "absentee". People who object to this are "dissenters".
Absently = like absinthe. Barman, over here please! (Da-na-na-na-na Barman! The coked crusader!)
Is it true that there is only one lake in the Lake District?
Makes the heart grow fonder.
(dies)
Panini as a plural sounds fine, but then what's the singular? Panino? That sounds odd in English.
I vote for using a more English alternative to "to gift". How about "to present", with the stress on the first syllable. That should clear things up.You mean "to give", don't you? ;D
+1 :thumbsup:In my view, a sentence using "favorite" as a verb is already clunky and inelegant - and American. However, I can see you are in a difficult editorial position if you are going to use articles which contain internet-speak.
I don't see it as a difficulty. Many nouns become verbs through common use and eventually take hold in more formal language despite resistance.
Ask yourself this: are you resisting the usage on strong grammatical grounds, or simply because it's a neologism?
Neologisms are inevitable in a developing language, which English is. However, I don't think that means that because a neologism exists that I am required to approve of it. And that is not Luddite but love of a language I feel is usually perfectly adequate already for most purposes; not only adequate but beautiful. "Favorite" isn't even English, but even if it was, its use is a distortion: how can you have any number of favo(u)rites? (I must confess I'm only making an assumption about how it is used, as I don't use FB, twitter and so on.)
But my original post just said I find it clunky and inelegant. I'm perfectly happy with that!
Perhaps it "should" be paninos but it isn't. There's quite a tradition in English of borrowing foreign plurals and using them as either singular or uncountable. Quite a lot of them are Italian food items, in fact: spaghetti, macaroni. Russian seems to be another good source. At a guess it's because the formation of plurals in those languages is so different from the way we do it in English.Panini as a plural sounds fine, but then what's the singular? Panino? That sounds odd in English.
Si. Italian innit. Of course there's a whole other argument that if one is speaking English then English plural forms should be used, so perhaps it should be panino and paninos. See also stadium and stadia.
Students will be ready to leave at 12:00pm, please make sure your son / daughter are being collected from [street].
Whereas here on YACF we make allowances for you in both respects. :-*
The Warwick Castle is a lovely local’s haunt set in the heart of Little Venice, welcoming visitors and neighbours to the area since 1867. Although updated the changes have been faithful to the original décor and charm of the building .The pub was beautifully captured in the painting by Eduardo Arizzone in 1927 and our marble fireplace is mentioned in treasures of Maida Vale.
One World Cup sticker album. Two Panini.One Match Attax. Two Match Attaxes.
Partner is having a meal in the 'Warwick Castle' hostelry tonight, so I thought I'd look at their website for information.QuoteThe Warwick Castle is a lovely local’s haunt set in the heart of Little Venice, welcoming visitors and neighbours to the area since 1867. Although updated the changes have been faithful to the original décor and charm of the building .The pub was beautifully captured in the painting by Eduardo Arizzone in 1927 and our marble fireplace is mentioned in treasures of Maida Vale.
I'd love to go through this with a red pen!
Edward Ardizzone http://www.edwardardizzone.org.uk (http://www.edwardardizzone.org.uk) has been one of my favourite artists since I was about 10 years old and they can't even get his name right!
Partner is having a meal in the 'Warwick Castle' hostelry tonight, so I thought I'd look at their website for information.QuoteThe Warwick Castle is a lovely local’s haunt set in the heart of Little Venice, welcoming visitors and neighbours to the area since 1867. Although updated the changes have been faithful to the original décor and charm of the building .The pub was beautifully captured in the painting by Eduardo Arizzone in 1927 and our marble fireplace is mentioned in treasures of Maida Vale.
I'd love to go through this with a red pen!
Edward Ardizzone http://www.edwardardizzone.org.uk (http://www.edwardardizzone.org.uk) has been one of my favourite artists since I was about 10 years old and they can't even get his name right!
That's because they think nobody else will ever have heard of him and they don't give a shit anyway.
Born into rural poverty in 1898, Arkady Shaikhet was just 19 years old when the Russian Revolution shook the world. After serving in the war, he honed his technique of ‘artistic reportage’ to document the building of the USSR, and founded the magazine Soviet Photo in 1927But which war? There were, after all, several happening at much the same time and place.
Partner is having a meal in the 'Warwick Castle' hostelry tonight, so I thought I'd look at their website for information.QuoteThe Warwick Castle is a lovely local’s haunt set in the heart of Little Venice, welcoming visitors and neighbours to the area since 1867. Although updated the changes have been faithful to the original décor and charm of the building .The pub was beautifully captured in the painting by Eduardo Arizzone in 1927 and our marble fireplace is mentioned in treasures of Maida Vale.
I'd love to go through this with a red pen!
Edward Ardizzone http://www.edwardardizzone.org.uk (http://www.edwardardizzone.org.uk) has been one of my favourite artists since I was about 10 years old and they can't even get his name right!
That's because they think nobody else will ever have heard of him and they don't give a shit anyway.
That's a bit stupid as the Hampstead Intelligentsia are likely to feature in the clientèle of an establishment in Maida Vale.
Grammar that makes you smirk:
http://www.dailyedge.ie/grammar-fail-photos-2169136-Jun2015/ (http://www.dailyedge.ie/grammar-fail-photos-2169136-Jun2015/)
Caption to a photo:Depending on the context of where it was published, I'd guess the Civil War (1917-22).QuoteBorn into rural poverty in 1898, Arkady Shaikhet was just 19 years old when the Russian Revolution shook the world. After serving in the war, he honed his technique of ‘artistic reportage’ to document the building of the USSR, and founded the magazine Soviet Photo in 1927But which war? There were, after all, several happening at much the same time and place.
Caption to a photo:Depending on the context of where it was published, I'd guess the Civil War (1917-22).QuoteBorn into rural poverty in 1898, Arkady Shaikhet was just 19 years old when the Russian Revolution shook the world. After serving in the war, he honed his technique of ‘artistic reportage’ to document the building of the USSR, and founded the magazine Soviet Photo in 1927But which war? There were, after all, several happening at much the same time and place.
Civil War would be my guess too, but it could be WWI – or possibly even one of the wars of independence and secession that were taking place in various parts of the post-Tsarist empire. It's just slightly annoying they don't say. But only slightly, cos the photo's got nothing to do with any war.They all merged into each other, didn't they? And I would think it pretty normal to have served in more than one narrowly defined war of that set, without necessarily perceiving them as separate.
To pocket has been around for centuries. Click (https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=to+pocket&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1700&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Cto%20pocket%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Bto%20pocket%3B%2Cc0%3B%3Bto%20Pocket%3B%2Cc0).As in "to put money (etc) in one's pocket"? Or some other version of the verb (say, "to pocket the snooker ball")? I can't see that the linked graph distinguishes.
Rob Collard, you may be a bit miffed about having a qualifying lap disallowed for exceeding track limits, but I don't think you can be "begrieved" about it. It is little wonder that I always feel the urge to shout "pikey!" whenevr you appear on-screen.
Yes, I guess so. It does depend on your perspective though. From the Bolshevik/Soviet point of view, it must have been one long war against various Enemies of the Revolution. Or even one Enemy in various guises. And that's obviously the Pov he would have taken. It's really the name Civil War that's inappropiate – it's a bit misleading to call something a civil war when it involves invading internationally recognised independent states. However, the History That Makes You Cringe thread is other there! <^>Civil War would be my guess too, but it could be WWI – or possibly even one of the wars of independence and secession that were taking place in various parts of the post-Tsarist empire. It's just slightly annoying they don't say. But only slightly, cos the photo's got nothing to do with any war.They all merged into each other, didn't they? And I would think it pretty normal to have served in more than one narrowly defined war of that set, without necessarily perceiving them as separate.
One that is really really starting to get on my thrupenny bits.I wonder when that happened?
You receive an email.
It starts with:
Hope you are well?
Since when did just sticking a question mark on the end of statement make it a question?
- Why, in the UK we could 'goldclock' our (ahem!) retirees.
- Why, in the UK we could 'goldclock' our (ahem!) retirees.
Doubleplusgood
Talking of 'since when', when did we start forming agent nouns by sticking 'ee' on the end? Attendee seems to have gained a foothold, and I've seen retiree a few times but they still grate.
- Why, in the UK we could 'goldclock' our (ahem!) retirees.
Doubleplusgood
Talking of 'since when', when did we start forming agent nouns by sticking 'ee' on the end? Attendee seems to have gained a foothold, and I've seen retiree a few times but they still grate.
As in "Er's a boy, ee be." ;D- Why, in the UK we could 'goldclock' our (ahem!) retirees.
Doubleplusgood
Talking of 'since when', when did we start forming agent nouns by sticking 'ee' on the end? Attendee seems to have gained a foothold, and I've seen retiree a few times but they still grate.
In the Southwest, 'er' and 'ee' have entirely different meanings.
Perhaps it comes from certain cases which could be seen as both agent and object. For instance, back when I was working in the outer reaches of Hollywood, a company big wig came to waste our time by telling us how well other parts of the business were doing. He was particularly keen on a new venture making 'standees'. These are the cardboard cut outs used in cinema lobbies to advertise new films. Clearly, they stand but they are also made to stand. Similarly, a retiree has retired but has also been retired. Perhaps a 'retirer' could be someone in charge of retirement policy!- Why, in the UK we could 'goldclock' our (ahem!) retirees.
Doubleplusgood
Talking of 'since when', when did we start forming agent nouns by sticking 'ee' on the end? Attendee seems to have gained a foothold, and I've seen retiree a few times but they still grate.
The boy Lineker1 dun grate
etc.
1. I feel that this rather dates the use of the verb to dun-grate.
I can't read that without doing a Mick Channon impression. Was he particularly associated with that usage or is it just me?
Already, there are warning signs of a slowdown, similar to those that front-ran the 1929 crash – depressed commodity prices and a virtual hiatus in global trade growth.Preceded? Were harbingers of? Foretold? Foreran, even? But actually, front-ran does create a nice picture of running at the front of a great wave while unaware of its existence.
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Yup. Anyone who spells login as one word must be a crook.Marginally better than logon, which always looks to me like it should be pronounced like Logan, as in Logan's Run.
Actually, Helly, with emails like that I appreciate the lousy grammar as it makes spam even easier to spot. That one makes me laugh more than cringe.
Yup. Anyone who spells login as one word must be a crook.Marginally better than logon, which always looks to me like it should be pronounced like Logan, as in Logan's Run.
Yes, and also the clear identification of the source as being Nigerian. I can't remember where I read it either, though!Actually, Helly, with emails like that I appreciate the lousy grammar as it makes spam even easier to spot. That one makes me laugh more than cringe.
I can't remember whether it was here or elsewhere, but I've read that the poor grammar in some phishing spam is deliberate as it filters out those who might be more sceptical about the content.
Prisoners are disproportionately black
BBC news just now:QuotePrisoners are disproportionately black
Pomicide
QuotePomicide
If it were to mean anything at all, it would mean the opposite of what you'd like it to mean. Just stop it. Go and do some cricket practice instead :P
Just been reminded of one of my current pet hates on R4 this morning. Scientists, mathematicians and IT people, often campus based, who start sentences, and often whole conversations, with the word "so".
It's as if they are picking up mid-conversation discussing proofs with a colleague, whilst also trying to convince you, in a patronising kind of way, that you have embarked on a level of dialogue of which they are master.
It's just plain irritating when such grammatical absurdities gain widespread use and are thought by the user to signify smartness. Quite the opposite IMO.
QuotePomicide
If it were to mean anything at all, it would mean the opposite of what you'd like it to mean. Just stop it. Go and do some cricket practice instead :P
Just been reminded of one of my current pet hates on R4 this morning. Scientists, mathematicians and IT people, often campus based, who start sentences, and often whole conversations, with the word "so".
It's as if they are picking up mid-conversation discussing proofs with a colleague, whilst also trying to convince you, in a patronising kind of way, that you have embarked on a level of dialogue of which they are master.
It's just plain irritating when such grammatical absurdities gain widespread use and are thought by the user to signify smartness. Quite the opposite IMO.
Only a few years later this has become common currency. It has spread like a virus and can be heard on every other media interview, not restricted to "experts" but almost anyone trying to explain something. It is now the thinking person's equivalent of the youth "like".
If you find yourself doing this, please try and desist!
Having lived & worked in Germany for years, I've had the "so" habit since the 80s. Germans arrive somewhere and get out of the car: "So!" Germans sit down to lunch: "So!" Very like the Edinburgh "now" habit - which might have died out since I lived there. Nothing patronising about either, though, they're just meaningless sonic interjections, a means of announcing the imminent arrival of a sentence more significant.
"Furthered".Truly awful.
As in "So-and-so furthered that he..." (after a list of things which So-and-so has listed)
OK, repetition of said may not be ideal, but's certainly preferable to fucking furthered.
Multiple citations could just be proof of lots of people being WRONG.Amen to that!
parked upYes, what's wrong with the perfectly good "stashed the motor"?
;D
Oh, if only that was the context I hear it in! The world would be a better place (especially meetings). :)
Sometimes you can't win...
Use, not take.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11889700_1100700856615570_7870083364318931289_n.jpg?oh=d07dcc308c0ea3ec90e76212bd4936f2&oe=566AB52A)
Take, not use.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11909512_10203602820231512_5660550502935005209_n.jpg?oh=10adfeefc5f6505f871a7dd6501af700&oe=5667B671)
"Small little..." juxtaposed. I have seen this often enough for it to make me think that "small" and "little" are not precisely synonymous, at least, not in the minds of those who put the two together.
What do others think?
"Small little..." juxtaposed. I have seen this often enough for it to make me think that "small" and "little" are not precisely synonymous, at least, not in the minds of those who put the two together.It's the opposite of "fucking great ... "
What do others think?
"Small little..." juxtaposed. I have seen this often enough for it to make me think that "small" and "little" are not precisely synonymous, at least, not in the minds of those who put the two together.I think you should avoid learning Dutch, to save yourself from constant cringing.
What do others think?
I see that geek is now a verb with a meaning similar to thrill. Bold is mine.QuoteI see a guitar player ... I understand what he's doing and it adds to my experience. That geeks me. Ballet geeks me too. Watching a ballet leaves me breathless -- oh, look what she did there! That extra rush is priceless. That's why we call it "geeking." I'm really lucky, my oldest son is also learning how to play the guitar, so we can geek at each other.
I like it. Grammatically speaking, it reminds me of this:Or simply it interests/excites/bores/etc me?
https://youtu.be/pX6QlnlMqjE
Interestingly, the Urban Dictionary's list of words related to geek out goes geek - nerd - dork.There's a brand of toothpaste (Colgate?) which has a logo it describes as a 'nurdle'. Sounds like a young nerd. Best stop there before I start dorkling out.
Is there any further checks that can be put in place that would prevent [this]? Is there any other reasons you can think of that would have stopped this check from working that we can realistically put actions in to prevent?
It seems that Hillary Clinton has been releasing old family photos to the media in order to make herself "more relatable". This may mean something to USAnians.
It seems that Hillary Clinton has been releasing old family photos to the media in order to make herself "more relatable". This may mean something to USAnians.
For the record, I did not have relations with that woman.
It seems that Hillary Clinton has been releasing old family photos to the media in order to make herself "more relatable". This may mean something to USAnians.Is that contrasted to 'Rela-under-the-table', as in Monica Lewinski's case?
It seems that Hillary Clinton has been releasing old family photos to the media in order to make herself "more relatable". This may mean something to USAnians.Is that contrasted to 'Rela-under-the-table', as in Monica Lewinski's case?
We are very pleased to announce that we have repaired and replaced a numerous amount of charging points throughout London and this will continue to grow the coming year.
Or "two"?Indeed. That's fine too.
I suppose from hunting/shooting, a brace of pheasants etc, it helps to suggest the two goals were as a result of some skill or effort. Perhaps if they are more likely to generate a prodigious celebration it should be a magnum of goals. And for a big celebration of four goals, a Jeroboam.???
I suppose from hunting/shooting, a brace of pheasants etc, it helps to suggest the two goals were as a result of some skill or effort. Perhaps if they are more likely to generate a prodigious celebration it should be a magnum of goals. And for a big celebration of four goals, a Jeroboam.
Why grammar should do more than make us cringe: An interactive guide to ambiguous grammar (http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/an-interactive-guide-to-ambiguous-grammar) (don't be tempted to skip sections; it's worth a full read).
Prominent on any given day would likely be ... a piece to camera on the significance of China to the global economy.
it's laborious work clinging onto unnecessary letters.
Doesn't that just mean "a piece in front of the camera" or, if you like, "speaking to the camera"? I don't think it's actually a verb.
The -ise -ize debate on here predates the spelling one. I'm not sure how that affects the rules.Bah!
Is "to camera" the opposite of "in camera"?:D
Jargon is fine when you're speaking to fellow jargs.
That's why you need jargoff too.
Anyway, I'd say that although "to camera" doubtless originated with film and tv jargon, it's fairly mainstream now. This is a reminder for us that even mainstreamized jargon can need explanation.
... the excellent Dorothy Sayers ...
And is a tattoo artiste an ink-hammerer?
... the excellent Dorothy Sayers ...
All respect lost ;) Tried reading a Lord Peter Wimsey novel about 10 years ago and it was utter tripe. I would rather read DLT than any more DLS.
True. Been there done that and taken the T-shirt off.That's why you need jargoff too.
Anyway, I'd say that although "to camera" doubtless originated with film and tv jargon, it's fairly mainstream now. This is a reminder for us that even mainstreamized jargon can need explanation.
Especially for long-term dwellers in furrinitude.
Basically, yes, but it's rather more literal than "to music". It could be thought of as a stage direction, I suppose.'Mic', or, if you will, 'mike', is already a verb. You can mic a drumkit by pointing appropriate microphones at appropriate bits, or mic up a presenter (usually refers to radio mics).
Though I'm sure "to camera" as a verb could catch on. "We camera Scene 1 tomorrow but we won't mike the dialogue till later."
Basically, yes, but it's rather more literal than "to music". It could be thought of as a stage direction, I suppose.'Mic', or, if you will, 'mike', is already a verb. You can mic a drumkit by pointing appropriate microphones at appropriate bits, or mic up a presenter (usually refers to radio mics).
Though I'm sure "to camera" as a verb could catch on. "We camera Scene 1 tomorrow but we won't mike the dialogue till later."
I believe that 'to helmet-cam' is already in use. :-\
Taking organic as the adjective it is does actually work, in a poetical sort of way: Organic your September, toxic your October, etc.Are you confusing "poetical" (poetic?)
What did you expect? They got the rest ass-backwards.
(Funny expression, that, ass-backwards. Surely the wrong way round would be ass-forwards.)
What did you expect? They got the rest ass-backwards.
(Funny expression, that, ass-backwards. Surely the wrong way round would be ass-forwards.)
Can't say I've ever heard that one. Arse-about-face, yes, but never 'ass-backwards'... :-\
And why would a beast of burden be reversing, anyway? ;)
What did you expect? They got the rest ass-backwards.
(Funny expression, that, ass-backwards. Surely the wrong way round would be ass-forwards.)
Can't say I've ever heard that one. Arse-about-face, yes, but never 'ass-backwards'... :-\
And why would a beast of burden be reversing, anyway? ;)
What did you expect? They got the rest ass-backwards.
(Funny expression, that, ass-backwards. Surely the wrong way round would be ass-forwards.)
Can't say I've ever heard that one. Arse-about-face, yes, but never 'ass-backwards'... :-\
Customer has keyboard run marks on the display - spoke to NH who has Agreed to consumer law the display for the customer.
From the Mega-Global Fruit Corporation ofCupertinoThurrock:QuoteCustomer has keyboard run marks on the display - spoke to NH who has Agreed to consumer law the display for the customer.
Customer has keyboard run marks on the display - spoke to NH who has Agreed to consumer law the display for the customer.
I rather like the comment to point 15.
Someone could have murdered a murderer.
Someone could have murdered a murderer.
Imagine how long it would have taken Taggart to say that
(Sings)
Suspected murderer of Tupac murder suspect
MUR-DERED!
(Waits for audience applause not a sossidge)
(Sings)
Suspected murderer of Tupac murder suspect
MUR-DERED!
(Waits for audience applause not a sossidge)
Oh. He dead?
Yet despite being dead, his recording output hasn't diminished. If anything he's been more productive.
Thanks to the efforts of the sub-titlers I now know that the Scandiwegian word "Hallo" means "Hallo". Or "Hello".
You thought it was a mistake, the subtitlers might have thought it was the best compromise between conveying the meaning and fitting in with the technical demands of the medium! One of the advantages of dubbing is that it isn't restricted in the same way.Nope. Plain & simple mistranslation because the English was misunderstood. Danish doesn't do it the same, & I assume the translator hadn't encountered that particular Englishism. It's the sort of thing lessons probably wouldn't cover. Short phrase, accurate translation of which would have fitted into the subtitles very easily.
Saw one recently where every time the word "fils" was said in French the word "wires" appeared in English, e.g. in a sentence such as "your wires got my daughter pregnant".:facepalm: I think that's gone beyond translation error or any linguistic issue into simply not paying any attention to what you're doing.
Ah. At first I though you meant that was a mistake in translating subs from Danish to English, in which case I can see at least two ways it could have occurred (translator proficient in English but unfamiliar with usage beyond railway timetables, or studio/TV channel being tight – some of them are unbelievably so) but in either case, it sounds odd but doesn't change the meaning. But I've realised you mean from English to Danish, which is actually quite a funny mistake (and also probably a result of unfamiliarity with usage as distinct from language). :DYou thought it was a mistake, the subtitlers might have thought it was the best compromise between conveying the meaning and fitting in with the technical demands of the medium! One of the advantages of dubbing is that it isn't restricted in the same way.Nope. Plain & simple mistranslation because the English was misunderstood. Danish doesn't do it the same, & I assume the translator hadn't encountered that particular Englishism. It's the sort of thing lessons probably wouldn't cover. Short phrase, accurate translation of which would have fitted into the subtitles very easily.
Q. "What's the time?"
A. "22".
I think you can work out what it should have been.
Saw one recently where every time the word "fils" was said in French the word "wires" appeared in English, e.g. in a sentence such as "your wires got my daughter pregnant".
And the confusing German habit of saying "half seven" when they mean six-thirty.
And the confusing German habit of saying "half seven" when they mean six-thirty.Not only German. Norse, too.
Saw one recently where every time the word "fils" was said in French the word "wires" appeared in English, e.g. in a sentence such as "your wires got my daughter pregnant".
The joys of translation are endless! I once bought a shirt that was made in Turkey. The shirt was properly labeled, in french, "Fabriqué en Dinde".
Thought Chicken Schnitzel was that place in Mexico with the pyramids.
ROCKIN 'IN THE AISLES:facepalm:
And the confusing German habit of saying "half seven" when they mean six-thirty.
Working in Germany, I got so used to this that the English meaning now seems strange; so I no longer use it.
Opinionated weather forecasters telling me it’s going to be a miserable day
Miserable to who? I quite like a bit of drizzle, so stick to the facts
And the confusing German habit of saying "half seven" when they mean six-thirty.
Working in Germany, I got so used to this that the English meaning now seems strange; so I no longer use it.
When I was quite young, and heard people saying the time was "half-six" I always thought how illogical it was. Afterwards, when I did a bit of German, I thought their wording was much more sensible.
Time to do "quarter of"?
So what does 'tres' mean on its own, if anything?
I couldn't see where the 'score' came in till AM expanded his post.So what does 'tres' mean on its own, if anything?
Threescore = sixty
The French also partially count in scores (quatre-vignts = 80); who else?
Yep. As AM says, it's the first syllable of the archaic word 'tresindstyve', i.e. 'three times twenty', 'sinds' being an obsolete word for 'times'. Same with 'firs', for 80, & 'halvfems', for 90 - half from five times twenty, although the Danish for hundred is hundred.So what does 'tres' mean on its own, if anything?
Threescore = sixty
The French also partially count in scores (quatre-vignts = 80); who else?
Time to do "quarter of"?
I understand the time right now is a quarter of three, for some Americans.
Stephen King uses 'quarter of' a lot in his books.
Time to do "quarter of"?
Nowt wrong with for e.g. a quarter of wine gums in the days when sweet shops sold sweets from big jars on shelves behind the brown-coated proprietor, in paper bags
(Exit, muttering about jumpers for goalposts)
"Smarts", not being a form of the verb to smart, describing a particular type of pain, but something to do with talents or abilities or intelligence.
Yesterday I discovered that it is now being taught in schools in this country. :facepalm:
From the comments it's clearly a common East Coast US expression.'Back of' is not uncommon in Scots for the first quarter past the hour, at least it was when I lived in rural Aberdeenshire.
The medieval 'half hour to five' is interesting in this context, as is 'back of', which I always think of as an Americanism for 'behind'. But if you think of 'back of beyond' perhaps it remains in use in British English too.
From the comments it's clearly a common East Coast US expression.'Back of' is not uncommon in Scots for the first quarter past the hour, at least it was when I lived in rural Aberdeenshire.
The medieval 'half hour to five' is interesting in this context, as is 'back of', which I always think of as an Americanism for 'behind'. But if you think of 'back of beyond' perhaps it remains in use in British English too.
...but if you were a true Constant Reader, you would have referred to him as Sai King, instead. Does that absolve you?Stephen King uses 'quarter of' a lot in his books.
Oh dear. I would appear to have no fewer than fifty-five books by Mr King in The Library. I may have to shoot myself instead.
... I've only read the first book of the Dark Wossname series, which did not inspire me to read any more once they were actually written.I was feeling similarly uninspired by The Gunslinger but will add my voice to the doubtless many who will have told you that it is worth persevering. The Drawing of the Three is much better (Wizard and Glass is utterly brilliant), and many of the things that seemed weird and disjointed in The Gunslinger will only make sense in the context of the later books.
... I've only read the first book of the Dark Wossname series, which did not inspire me to read any more once they were actually written.I was feeling similarly uninspired by The Gunslinger but will add my voice to the doubtless many who will have told you that it is worth persevering.
It's possible that some were edited for BritEng readers and some not.... I've only read the first book of the Dark Wossname series, which did not inspire me to read any more once they were actually written.I was feeling similarly uninspired by The Gunslinger but will add my voice to the doubtless many who will have told you that it is worth persevering. The Drawing of the Three is much better (Wizard and Glass is utterly brilliant), and many of the things that seemed weird and disjointed in The Gunslinger will only make sense in the context of the later books.
And I don't think King uses 'quarter of' very much in any of them. ;)
(Edit to add: because I'm a sad bastard, I checked this and found 4 'quarter of's, all in The Waste Lands. Interestingly, King uses 'quarter to' twice in Wolves of the Calla and twice in The Dark Tower.)
I thought he played drums for Hawkwind after Terry Ollis left?
Furry muff.Actually you're the first. And my "to-read" pile is big enough already without wanting to add another four thousand pages.... I've only read the first book of the Dark Wossname series, which did not inspire me to read any more once they were actually written.I was feeling similarly uninspired by The Gunslinger but will add my voice to the doubtless many who will have told you that it is worth persevering.
That's quite possible.(Edit to add: because I'm a sad bastard, I checked this and found 4 'quarter of's, all in The Waste Lands. Interestingly, King uses 'quarter to' twice in Wolves of the Calla and twice in The Dark Tower.)It's possible that some were edited for BritEng readers and some not.
The link bellows provides and updated version of...:facepalm:
“I loved you. I was a pentapod monster, but I loved you. I was despicable and brutal, and turpid, and everything, mais je t’aimais, je t’aimais! And there were times when I knew how you felt, and it was hell to know it, my little one. Lolita girl, brave Dolly Schiller.”In reference to Humbert's
You can see why a pentapod is not on.
“I loved you. I was a pentapod monster, but I loved you. I was despicable and brutal, and turpid, and everything, mais je t’aimais, je t’aimais! And there were times when I knew how you felt, and it was hell to know it, my little one. Lolita girl, brave Dolly Schiller.”In reference to Humbert's
You can see why a pentapod is not on.pentapodishnesspentapodiatrypentapodfive-leggedness, I keep thinking that he should be declaring himself "despicable and brutal, and turgid..." :o
The Chronicles of the League of Gentlemen Cyclists.
Capt Murakhtin spoke to Russian media outlets, who did not show his face
An advert for Lapierre bikes:
Merci Thibaut.
Thibaut Pinot, winner of the mythical Tour de France stage at l'Alpe d'Huez on his Xelius SL!
I'm sure in a few years it will seem as fitting as 'legendary' or 'epic' but right now it sounds like a mistake! (Actually, I expect it's a bad translation, in which case it won't seem any different in a few years' time.)
And 'terrible'.
I don't think it's fair to say legendary, epic, boss, or even myth-worthy(!) are mere intensifiers. They have lost their original specific meanings but retain meaning beyond 'very'.
N's challenge is to develop a means to process Security Related Agile User Stories by making affinities between the underlying requirements and identify any inter-dependencies in a graphical form in order to develop coherent requirements which aim to satisfy the user needs using a limited set of architectural patterns. The entire process will use ISO Standards as a means to determine a common vocabulary and relationships to make associations so to inform the architectural pattern definitions.
And 'terrible'.
But see also the famed terrible knitters of Dent...
So we're no longer making nice distinctions in our choice of adjectives.
Kids at school are now taught not to use nice, cos it's overused. They're also told to use 'wow words'. Both would seem likely to increase the popularity of legendary etc.
Nice and Accurate.
Nice and Accurate.
sealskinz waterproof socks: does anyone tried it?
Nice and Accurate.
You've been reading 'Good Omens' haven't you. :thumbsup:
People who use the word "horrorshow" to denote a Bad Thing. Yes you, Lord Coe! Didn't read A Clockwork Orange at your grubby little secondary modern, I suppose.
People who use the word "horrorshow" to denote a Bad Thing. Yes you, Lord Coe! Didn't read A Clockwork Orange at your grubby little secondary modern, I suppose.Xорошо!
I am task and goal oriented even with sports and hobbies as it make me try harder. I find my enthusiasm to be infectious as everyone tries harder as well.
I am interested in joining the intelligence corps but would like to know more before i go any further is there any oppurtunties to meet someone who is in the int corp's to find out more about the role and future prospects i.e job's after the army is there any upcoming career exhibitions or open days
^^^ Once had one that went
Languages:
-read: French, German, English
-spoken: French, German, German.
While in Indonesia I noticed that Chinese people, when describing things in English, often said things like "it's the colour green" or "it's red in colour."Thats a long-standing english usage. possibly fallen out of fashion in casual usage recently (due to nd 4 brvty?), but still around
I don't need to be told red, green or whatever is a colour. I never noticed you saying something was "square/round/triangular in shape." Why do you feel the need to tell me you're talking about a colour when you have given me the name of a colour and that name can't be confused with anything other than a colour? If you don't tell me you're talking about a colour I'm not likely to think you mean "it's purple in taste" am I?
Possibly it's something that comes from Chinese words or language. I don't know. If that's the case I have to live with it. I do know that, for me, it's cringe-worthy.
While in Indonesia I noticedthatChinese people,whendescribingthingsin English, often said things like "it's the colour green" or "it's red in colour."
I don't need to be told red, green or whatever is a colour. I never noticed you sayingsomething was"square/round/triangular in shape." Whydo you feelthe need to tell me you're talking about a colour when you have given me the nameof a colour andthatnamecan't be confused with anything other than a colour? If you don't tell me you're talking aboutacolour I'm not likely to think you mean "it's purple in taste"am I?
Possiblyit'ssomethingthat comesfrom Chinesewords or language. I don't know. Ifthat'sthe case I have to live with it. I do knowthat, for me,it's cringe-worthy.
Following an audit at work, apparently there are 'some documents out of sink...'. ::-)
At least they will be dry.
SHERWEN!!1!
That's why we have the annual threads at TdF time to give Pinky and Perky a righteous verbal drubbing ;D
Criticising Chinese people in Indonesia for their stylistically imperfect English seems rather grumpy.
Indeed.Criticising Chinese people in Indonesia for their stylistically imperfect English seems rather grumpy.
Hold on, isn't this entire thread dedicated to grumpy curmudgeons' attempts to demonstrate their intellectual supremacy through criticising the perceived mistakes of others?
So much subtlety missed by you, not understood and, therefore, deleted.While in Indonesia I noticedthatChinese people,whendescribingthingsin English, often said things like "it's the colour green" or "it's red in colour."
I don't need to be told red, green or whatever is a colour. I never noticed you sayingsomething was"square/round/triangular in shape." Whydo you feelthe need to tell me you're talking about a colour when you have given me the nameof a colour andthatnamecan't be confused with anything other than a colour? If you don't tell me you're talking aboutacolour I'm not likely to think you mean "it's purple in taste"am I?
Possiblyit'ssomethingthat comesfrom Chinesewords or language. I don't know. Ifthat'sthe case I have to live with it. I do knowthat, for me,it's cringe-worthy.
I've removed the redundancy from your post in the hope you will be able to cringe a little less when you re-read it. HTH.
BTW, you can blame that particular idiom entirely on Paul Sherwen and Phil Liggett.
Should "handbags" be hyphenated?
And I second you on that.Indeed.Criticising Chinese people in Indonesia for their stylistically imperfect English seems rather grumpy.
Hold on, isn't this entire thread dedicated to grumpy curmudgeons' attempts to demonstrate their intellectual supremacy through criticising the perceived mistakes of others?
We criticise the brits, yanks and chinese here - noone gets a free pass. And there are double points for intellectual supremacy in areas beyond grammar. Because we can.
(although I stand by my criticism of the "Indonesia" post :) )
I really cringe at:It's civil engineering jargon. Overtop, I think, no hyphen.
"over-top" v.
[I'm assuming its hyphenated; I've only heard it on the radio news in flood reports]
It does seem to be a useful specific term, but by eck it's ugly!
I really cringe at:
"over-top" v.
[I'm assuming its hyphenated; I've only heard it on the radio news in flood reports]
It does seem to be a useful specific term, but by eck it's ugly!
Getting really irritated by people being interviewed on TV and radio starting every answer with "So". Where the hell has this come from?
Getting really irritated by people being interviewed on TV and radio starting every answer with "So". Where the hell has this come from?
I am guilty of starting with, "So," because it is one way of saying, "Pay attention." So often I would say something and the response would be, "Pardon," and I'd have to repeat myself. Using a quick short attention getter: a cough, so, ey-up, or something means people listen first time.
I am guilty of starting with, "So," because it is one way of saying, "Pay attention."
Indeed, it's not sin, it's a technique, gives the speaker a moment to collect their thoughts, and the audience time to assemble their attention.
Indeed, it's not sin, it's a technique, gives the speaker a moment to collect their thoughts, and the audience time to assemble their attention.
Language fashions are, like, strange, like.FTFY
I am guilty of starting with, "So," because it is one way of saying, "Pay attention." So often I would say something and the response would be, "Pardon," and I'd have to repeat myself. Using a quick short attention getter: a cough, so, ey-up, or something means people listen first time.My ex B-in-law used to use "I say!" in that way. It seemed to work.
Language fashions are, like, strange, like.FTFY
At our place it started with the onetime head of IT Architecture and spread like widfire. It is indeed a way of barging into a conversation and it works because it implies that what is about to be said somehow logically follows from what has been said before. In fact, they were probably not listening at all, just waiting for a chance to speak.Indeed, it's not sin, it's a technique, gives the speaker a moment to collect their thoughts, and the audience time to assemble their attention.
Whether or not this is true, it doesn't explain where it has come from - or why. I don't recall it being so prevalent five years ago.
Language fashions are strange indeed.
Indeed, it's not sin, it's a technique, gives the speaker a moment to collect their thoughts, and the audience time to assemble their attention.
Whether or not this is true, it doesn't explain where it has come from - or why. I don't recall it being so prevalent five years ago.
Language fashions are strange indeed.
Ambient cake... truly awful management jargon.
...or kept frozen
Touché...or kept frozen
FTFY...
It makes sense but is another example of specific trade jargon escaping into the outside world where in sounds pretentious or silly.
It makes sense but is another example of specific trade jargon escaping into the outside world where in sounds pretentious or silly.
Exactly. It shouldn't be used in a 'customer facing' context.
I didn't know that Sainsburies stocked cleaning products specifically for one's narsty.
!
I didn't know that Sainsburies stocked cleaning products specifically for one's narsty.
This is from a one time English teacher in a grammar pedants' thread.
(mutter grumble)
;) ;) ;D
Name all five members of One Direction, then!(click to show/hide)
I have noticed a regional difference appertaining to the use of "on" or "in" for locations. Mrs. Wow, or example, who is from oop noorth, refers to something being "on" Lord Street, or Stanley Square, or Oswaldtwistle Terrace. I refer to buildings being "in" Acacia Gardens, Fotheringham Lane, or Frinton Boulevard.I think he lived down Dury Lane in my childhood.
Edit: I just checked the lyrics of the Muffin Man song. When I were a lad he always lived in Drury Lane. The website I found had him living on DL.
I notice the word "on" is getting dropped or is used instead of "in".
Eg: "Will be released next Monday",
"The new series of Doctor Who starts Thursday 19th November".
"The supermarket on/in City Road".
"Who's".Short for "who is", innit?!
AS a matter of interest, Tim, are you a young enough whippersnapper to have missed Listen with Mother on the Home Service? That was the source of me hearing that song, and I agree, down it was.Despite my boyish good looks, I'm only a few years youger than you, so, yes, I remember clambering up on the dresser at a quarter to two to listen to the wireless. Mind you, wiki tells me the last episode of LWM was in 1982.
AS a matter of interest, Tim, are you a young enough whippersnapper to have missed Listen with Mother on the Home Service? That was the source of me hearing that song, and I agree, down it was.Despite my boyish good looks, I'm only a few years youger than you, so, yes, I remember clambering up on the dresser at a quarter to two to listen to the wireless. Mind you, wiki tells me the last episode of LWM was in 1982.
I notice the word "on" is getting dropped or is used instead of "in".
Eg: "Will be released next Monday",
"The new series of Doctor Who starts Thursday 19th November".
I think I've absorbed a non-existent grammar rule here...
"Will be released on Monday" and "Will be released next Monday" are both grammatically correct to me (but refer to different weeks[1]). "Will be released on next Monday" is, for some illogical reason, superfluous waffle. I don't see why the 'next' (or a 'this') should preclude the need for 'on', but that's how I do it.
"Will be released Monday" is a abhorrent leftpondian version of "Will be released on Monday".Quote"The supermarket on/in City Road".
The supermarket is on (or perhaps off) the road. If it were in the road, it would be blocking traffic[2]. 'On' meaning 'adjoining', I suppose. And for completeness, I'd probably use 'next to' for a supermarket that was adjoining, but not accessible from, a given road.
I'd use 'in' for "The cafe in the park" or similar situations of genuine geographical enclosure.
Therefore "The cafe in Foobar Square" and "The cafe on Foobar Square" imply different physical things. (The former's in the middle, the latter around the edge.)
AS a matter of interest, Tim, are you a young enough whippersnapper to have missed Listen with Mother on the Home Service? That was the source of me hearing that song, and I agree, down it was.Despite my boyish good looks, I'm only a few years youger than you, so, yes, I remember clambering up on the dresser at a quarter to two to listen to the wireless. Mind you, wiki tells me the last episode of LWM was in 1982.
I remember episodes of LWM, and I believe I am *considerably* younger than yow (well, than Wow anyway).
1982 fits, as we moved out of the house I associate with sitting comfortably (or not, as I was generally playing on the floor in the kitchen when it started) in 1980.
AS a matter of interest, Tim, are you a young enough whippersnapper to have missed Listen with Mother on the Home Service? That was the source of me hearing that song, and I agree, down it was.Despite my boyish good looks, I'm only a few years youger than you, so, yes, I remember clambering up on the dresser at a quarter to two to listen to the wireless. Mind you, wiki tells me the last episode of LWM was in 1982.
I remember episodes of LWM, and I believe I am *considerably* younger than yow (well, than Wow anyway).
1982 fits, as we moved out of the house I associate with sitting comfortably (or not, as I was generally playing on the floor in the kitchen when it started) in 1980.
Regarding the on/in business...When I started racing, our time-trialling, and in particular our courses, were "on" Cheshire. Just a shared idiom, I think.
Regarding the on/in business...When I started racing, our time-trialling, and in particular our courses, were "on" Cheshire. Just a shared idiom, I think.
When I was a small Mr Larrington the Muffin Man just lived down the lane. No name was specified.
AS a matter of interest, Tim, are you a young enough whippersnapper to have missed Listen with Mother on the Home Service? That was the source of me hearing that song, and I agree, down it was.Despite my boyish good looks, I'm only a few years youger than you, so, yes, I remember clambering up on the dresser at a quarter to two to listen to the wireless. Mind you, wiki tells me the last episode of LWM was in 1982.
I have noticed a regional difference appertaining to the use of "on" or "in" for locations. Mrs. Wow, or example, who is from oop noorth, refers to something being "on" Lord Street, or Stanley Square, or Oswaldtwistle Terrace. I refer to buildings being "in" Acacia Gardens, Fotheringham Lane, or Frinton Boulevard.
Meanwhile, Facebook tells me <<Steve slept on a church porch on Saturday night (an unscheduled pitstop due to a stomach bug).>>
I would definitely have use 'in' there...
How many Dr Whos are in Who's Who?I don't know, but I did pee in a tardis yesterday. In, not on.
Or should that be 'Drs Who'?
If it doesn't have a roof, it's not a porch by my use of the word.
I remember LWM but not the Muffin Man. I have no particular opinion on the use of in vs on for streets. I do note that for vehicles, we still say on a train.
If it doesn't have a roof, it's not a porch by my use of the word.
I remember LWM but not the Muffin Man. I have no particular opinion on the use of in vs on for streets. I do note that for vehicles, we still say on a train.
Well yeah, but hardly anyone travels by carriage anymore. can we please stick with the 21stC, hmm?...
I have no particular opinion on the use of in vs on for streets. I do note that for vehicles, we still say on a train.
But in a carriage.
...railway
I have no particular opinion on the use of in vs on for streets. I do note that for vehicles, we still say on a train.
But in a carriage.
^
Well yeah, but hardly anyone travels by carriage anymore. can we please stick with the 21stC, hmm?
oh, I see. With you now, thanks.
When I was a small Mr Larrington the Muffin Man just lived down the lane. No name was specified.
Are you sure you are not confusing him with his neighbour, the Little Boy, recipient of the Third Bag?
And porches definitely need roofsNot if they have a Targa top.
<OT>Penny Pot Lane! Wow, that brings back memories of racing at the Harrogate Festival of Cycling, around 1980. Although,</OT> judging by my results, I'd probably eaten too many muffins and things.
Manufacturers are revealed to be exploiting a loophole in European tests to exaggerate the brightness and energy use of their products::-)
There is barely a noun that cannot be verbed, but the conductor has just informed us that the train is platforming on the other side.
It hurts my sensibilities.
"The rocket lofted a capsule that is to eventually carry paying passengers"That doesn't strike me as the least bit odd. I'm (reasonably) sure the use of loft to mean hitting, throwing or launching something skywards goes back a very long way. It's commonly used in cricket and football reports.
"The rocket lofted a capsule that is to eventually carry paying passengers"That doesn't strike me as the least bit odd. I'm (reasonably) sure the use of loft to mean hitting, throwing or launching something skywards goes back a very long way. It's commonly used in cricket and football reports.
From , http://www.bluecorrespondent.co.uk/1953-54/august1953.html, "Fielding did the right thing when he lofted the ball over to Eglington..." There may be earlier examples of the usage.
Most people do not appreciate that if something is decimated 90% will remain, do they?
In a trailer for a film called "London has fallen" (looks like rubbish) the wondrous line "London has been decimated". Er... devastated?
decimate, v. 1. c. to reduce drastically or severely; to destroy, ruin, devastate. ... now the most usual sense in standard English.
I believe Helly started criticising this usage in around 1665.In a trailer for a film called "London has fallen" (looks like rubbish) the wondrous line "London has been decimated". Er... devastated?
The OED says:Quote from: OEDdecimate, v. 1. c. to reduce drastically or severely; to destroy, ruin, devastate. ... now the most usual sense in standard English.
with citations from 1660 onwards.
I've just listened to John Meagher (I assume he's an American music journalist) in 'The Selling of Sinatra' on Radio 4,he said,
"The new sound augured a new era ... the Vietnam war was seeping into the American culture, a cynicism, a sense of betrayal and loss of goodness and you know, what Sinatra did was to try to transition by co-opting a lot of the younger talent"
He means 'transit'
transition, v. intr. To make or undergo a transition (from one state, system, etc. to or into another); to change over or switch.
transit, v. 1. intr. To pass through or over; to pass away.
2. trans. To pass across or through (something); to traverse, cross. Also fig.
3. Astrol. To pass across (a sign, ‘house’, or special point, of the zodiac). Also absol. or intr.
4. Astron. To pass across (the disk of a celestial body, the meridian of a place, or the field of view of a telescope). Also absol. or intr.
I was going to remark on decimate being Medieval Latin rather than Classical but Gareth does it so much more stylishly than I could.
I believe the original meaning is the same as tithe, which did indeed once have a 1/10 sense, but anyone who thinks we should only be allowed to use words with their original meaning is clearly gay.
Your all gay what? ;) ;) ;D
Youth's the season made for joy
Love is then our duty.
John Gay?
In a trailer for a film called "London has fallen" (looks like rubbish) the wondrous line "London has been decimated". Er... devastated?
The OED says:Quote from: OEDdecimate, v. 1. c. to reduce drastically or severely; to destroy, ruin, devastate. ... now the most usual sense in standard English.
with citations from 1660 onwards.
Then Cruz said that both McCain, born in Panama, and George Romney, Mitt’s father, were born in Mexico.Do they mean that Cruz was mistaken as to were McCain was born or did he really say "McCain was born in Panama, that's in Mexico"? Or did he actually say that neither of them was born in the USA? Did anyone proofread this before you published it?
Abuse? Meh.In a trailer for a film called "London has fallen" (looks like rubbish) the wondrous line "London has been decimated". Er... devastated?
The OED says:Quote from: OEDdecimate, v. 1. c. to reduce drastically or severely; to destroy, ruin, devastate. ... now the most usual sense in standard English.
with citations from 1660 onwards.
That's very irritating.
If it has become the most usual sense in standard English it's only from abuse - and probably the nefarious influence of German George.
Abuse? Meh.In a trailer for a film called "London has fallen" (looks like rubbish) the wondrous line "London has been decimated". Er... devastated?
The OED says:Quote from: OEDdecimate, v. 1. c. to reduce drastically or severely; to destroy, ruin, devastate. ... now the most usual sense in standard English.
with citations from 1660 onwards.
That's very irritating.
If it has become the most usual sense in standard English it's only from abuse - and probably the nefarious influence of German George.
It's just an exaggeration for effect thing. Perfectly normal. There are many (conflict-related) other examples:
"Chelsea were thrashed by <insert any premier league club> yesterday."
(Note that I do consider abuse of "literally" worthy of a proper thrashing. I'd be quite happy to see that usage decimated ... )
In all intensive purposes......
In an email received from my client last FridayQuoteIn all intensive purposes......
.... is not what she meant, and English is her first language ::-)
US President Barack Obama has pledged his support to the Michigan city beset by a water contamination crisis, saying Flint had been "short-changed".It's a shame the National Guard are unable to drink the water.
Speaking from nearby Detroit, he said: "If I were a parent up there, I would be beside myself that my kid's health could be at risk."
The city's water became contaminated when lead leached from old pipes after a change in supplier in 2014.
Since then, residents have complained of bad smells, headaches and rashes.
Unable to drink tap water, the National Guard has joined volunteers in distributing lead tests, filters and bottled water.
Oil rout in progress:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35362397
That's interesting - they should tell Simon Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Jack) to read it. ;)
The standard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_(economics)) used by the publishers of the indices (https://index.barcap.com/), and across the UK financial sector is "indices", and often "indexes" in the US (though Bloomberg's website (http://www.bloombergindexes.com/) hedges its bets by using both on the same page!).
Does that mean we're allowed to hang offenders?
You really have to wonder
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wBNolTyQHKBWeh3OgkLku1Ws4tsjVkUA36jL5FWsUg0G-2COIFTlQ8H8PmaYWlHbUy1ShzdfZ2yEZckF186xrvrJfd16c7tQ-KGkIk3o-QK9T-RsaZKxVG0zpdYTzuChx9qKM2PVBj_PTULS0D4-hLbvEforXEXNIT7Svb991M1eO9M1z3jpIuzWSy9Pt-jKBN09BK5oKPYBJzVnAnQPJOZfCs7tuNxJ198YWLqB_ZWQjtl5wtcDfxsplFWxvPb03agjZMG-3srZF8FWfeZ28TeK43CILnnDVipExN7JxKtHOa6BRcNF0Hb2zZrxok7d6RuEgAPljf1djRWnrqC-1Alo96GdRkHV5r7eXDJ916FhFzHw7MZN95pOLXFnd7jg7JANN7-9oRq6a-fWevibdt-RY40r1dot0VIbwzYOmRlPMgEirFQXxEmSDtH9r5fe5ebjoUzEDpK_YaO4JVoGKA4-oyImO0DIHhLwwYDDnIXNLGgGFfIxBEuvWkE0FTFFUjPpMNuMDxESq2DoTDXAKdTkkQKTCp4IFYRGTf3K_tmfYDVvGCW2PF-OWxJ1JbLmbln3vA=w677-h902-no)
Adjective in place of adverb?Does that mean we're allowed to hang offenders?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ba/31/8c/ba318c380cfc2c11dd30f31dad1b9628.jpg)
Cross-over?
I stumbled across an article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35457135) on the BBC website about a digitally enhanced photo that won a competition. In it Nikon were quoted as saying:
"We have dialogued internally"
I accept that language is constantly changing and that any noun can be verbed, but that's a really ugly construction.
there are many people out there who isn't stupid," said one user.
I stumbled across an article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35457135) on the BBC website about a digitally enhanced photo that won a competition. In it Nikon were quoted as saying:
"We have dialogued internally"
I accept that language is constantly changing and that any noun can be verbed, but that's a really ugly construction.
How VIP do we gotta get?
A wealth of grammatical mangling from Paul McCartney last night after being refused entry to a Grammy party last night:Quote from: Paul McCartneyHow VIP do we gotta get?
I'd always thought "to go bush" meant to become slightly bonkers from living in the wilds too long.I think it does, but they'd found a sentence where it clearly meant go into the bush.
In Oz, the bush is an area, anything that isn't towns, etc. The outback is well into the bush. To go bush is to go away from civilisation.Interesting, cos I wasn't quite sure of the distinction.
I'd always thought "to go bush" meant to become slightly bonkers from living in the wilds too long.Yes, a state (of mind, in this case) not a place.
Being as what she's a Yorkshire lass ...Makes me cringe. Particularly in this instance, seeing as it's followed by "what". Not quite in the same league as "off of", or compulsive reflexive hypercorrection ("I spoke you yourself yesterday..."), but close.
'Twas used in jest, sir, and purposely ungrammatical. But please have a good cringe if it makes you feel better.Yeah, yeah... ;) ;D
24/7/365.
There are only 52 weeks in a year.
Either 24/7/52, 24/365 or preferably just 24/7
BBC (http://www.bbc.com/news): Russia and Syria 'weaponising' migration.
What's wrong with providing weapons or arming whoever was weaponised (which I couldn't work out from the BBC article)?
What's wrong with providing weapons...
Opinions vary as to which of these usages is “American”; my inbox suggests that this term is employed by British readers to describe whichever aspect of style they don’t happen to like.
But interesting too. Is it simply a written representation of non-standard speech or is it a mistaken use of a past tense for a past participle?
Some USAnian SCIENTIST used the word "automatize", which I think means "automate", on a recent episode of "The Infinite Monkey Cage". I trust he will never be invited to appear on the Home Service again.That's just a similar (mis-)construction to "burglarize".
I thought clarion's recent post in the Gallery should be here.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1556/24958921453_06bb4b2eee_z.jpg)
Agreed. I still struggle with overcast as a noun, from weather forecasters. I dare say it's been going for years but I still struggle!I'm only aware of them using it as an adjective.
Agreed. I still struggle with overcast as a noun, from weather forecasters. I dare say it's been going for years but I still struggle!
Some USAnian SCIENTIST used the word "automatize", which I think means "automate", on a recent episode of "The Infinite Monkey Cage". I trust he will never be invited to appear on the Home Service again.That's just a similar (mis-)construction to "burglarize".
Some USAnian SCIENTIST used the word "automatize", which I think means "automate", on a recent episode of "The Infinite Monkey Cage". I trust he will never be invited to appear on the Home Service again.That's just a similar (mis-)construction to "burglarize".
I quite like the idea of the verb being "to burglarate."
I quite like the idea of the verb being "to burglarate."
And a burglar being a burglarator.But surely a burglarator would burglaratorize?
And a burglar being a burglarator.But surely a burglarator would burglaratorize?
The stock management software at my new job uses 'less' instead of 'fewer'.
Agreed. I still struggle with overcast as a noun, from weather forecasters. I dare say it's been going for years but I still struggle!
I've never heard that. It could be quite a nice description, "they rode into the overcast" or suchlike, but it doesn't sound right.
the Department of Redundancy Department
Flewby?
If not, it ought to be.
Something I find cringeworthy is the growing use of words that don't mean what the author intended but work more or less. E.g. in Seveneves, Neal Stevenson uses the phrase "slatternly tarps".I'm not sure it is such a bad use. There is a slatting sail, one where it isn't hauled in properly and is flapping fiercely.
Oh does your heroin lose its glamour on the washboard overnight?
When your mother says “Don’t do it” do you crank it up in spite?
Do you rob your brother’s Giro? Do you talk a load of shite?
Does your heroin lose its glamour on the washboard overnight?
"Robbing" is certainly in common usage for "stealing" on Merseyside. They've probably got two hundred words for theft, though ;)
I robbed the bottle cages off my old bike = I stole the bottle cages from my old bike
I robbed the bottle cages off my old bike = I stole the bottle cages from my old bike
Steal is what they think it means, etc, etc. That doesn't mean that it does. Who was it said that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth? Same with grammar.
Robbery involves the threat or use ofI robbed the bottle cages off my old bike = I stole the bottle cages from my old bike
Steal is what they think it means, etc, etc. That doesn't mean that it does. Who was it said that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth? Same with grammar.
Rob and steal are almost synonyms. They are slightly different in that steal normally places focus on the object that was taken and rob more on the act itself.
Robbed is grammatically correct in the case in question its just not common usage in the south of the UK. That doesn't make it incorrect.
Robbery involves the threat or use ofI robbed the bottle cages off my old bike = I stole the bottle cages from my old bike
Steal is what they think it means, etc, etc. That doesn't mean that it does. Who was it said that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth? Same with grammar.
Rob and steal are almost synonyms. They are slightly different in that steal normally places focus on the object that was taken and rob more on the act itself.
Robbed is grammatically correct in the case in question its just not common usage in the south of the UK. That doesn't make it incorrect.violinsviolence.
Hybrid Air Vehicles said the Airlander was the first of a new generation of airships to be built there and was filled with helium with diesel engines.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36031101 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36031101)
Judy is away from 22 April for she and Graham's annual trip to Jazz Fest in New Orleans
Robbery involves the threat or use ofI robbed the bottle cages off my old bike = I stole the bottle cages from my old bike
Steal is what they think it means, etc, etc. That doesn't mean that it does. Who was it said that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth? Same with grammar.
Rob and steal are almost synonyms. They are slightly different in that steal normally places focus on the object that was taken and rob more on the act itself.
Robbed is grammatically correct in the case in question its just not common usage in the south of the UK. That doesn't make it incorrect.violinsviolence.
Those Clever people at Cardington are fitting engines to gases now...QuoteHybrid Air Vehicles said the Airlander was the first of a new generation of airships to be built there and was filled with helium with diesel engines.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36031101 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36031101)
"Surely a £ or 2 is little price to pay for such a fantastic opportunity?"
Robbery involves the threat or use ofI robbed the bottle cages off my old bike = I stole the bottle cages from my old bike
Steal is what they think it means, etc, etc. That doesn't mean that it does. Who was it said that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth? Same with grammar.
Rob and steal are almost synonyms. They are slightly different in that steal normally places focus on the object that was taken and rob more on the act itself.
Robbed is grammatically correct in the case in question its just not common usage in the south of the UK. That doesn't make it incorrect.violinsviolence.
Chambers* gives it as "the act or process, or an instance, of robbing, especially theft with threats, force or violence." I read that as meaning that violence or threat is implied but not necessary for an act to be robbery.
So someone who breaks into a bank when nobody is there and empties the safe is not guilty of robbery. And isn't it only burglary after dark?
No, there could be staff working after it's closed.So someone who breaks into a bank when nobody is there and empties the safe is not guilty of robbery. And isn't it only burglary after dark?
Funnily enough, this came up on the radio the other day - can't remember exactly where, probably on Radcliffe & Maconie's 6music show. Anyway, what they said was that the bank has to be open for it to be robbery. Otherwise it's burglary. They didn't specify if it has to be dark.
I guess it has to be open for the threat of violence to be possible.
No, there could be staff working after it's closed.
#pedantry101
"My daddy was aYou're lucky if you can hear the lyrics these days!bankrobberbank burgler but he never hurt nobody"
I better give The Clash a ring. They slipped in a double negative there as well.
Typical rock stars with their loud music and sloppy grammar.
The Clash are alright: as long as daddy was using threats of violence he can still be a robber while hurting no-one.
Grammar or spelling? From the local paper: "has bared a striking resemblance".Unveiled a nude statue? :D
Grammatically, “me” is always the right choice when you need an objective pronoun. You wouldn’t say, “Hey, Tim, want to come to the milk bar with I?”Well, duh! Everyone knows it should be "Hey, Tim, want to come to Costa with myself?"
QuoteGrammatically, “me” is always the right choice when you need an objective pronoun. You wouldn’t say, “Hey, Tim, want to come to the milk bar with I?”Well, duh! Everyone knows it should be "Hey, Tim, want to come to Costa with myself?"
Yesterday I wasn't entirely sure of my way out of Gloucester to the east. I stopped to look at a map but at that moment an old lady walked by so I thought I'd ask her. "Is this the road to Birdlip?" She sucked her teeth and cast her eyes to heaven before confirming that I was on the right road. "Yes, if you go along to the end then turn right, you'm on track for Birdlip." She wasn't a Rasta though. (And she did follow it up with "It's a long way, mind." It's about four miles. )QuoteGrammatically, “me” is always the right choice when you need an objective pronoun. You wouldn’t say, “Hey, Tim, want to come to the milk bar with I?”Well, duh! Everyone knows it should be "Hey, Tim, want to come to Costa with myself?"
What if you're a Rasta?
"Hey, Tim bwoy, him gwine at milk bah wid I and I?"
(Or something like that - I'm don't claim to be fluent in Jamaican.)
Just been looking at satnav reviews on Techradar - there's a website that would benefit from the services of a good subeditor.
It's mostly just typos that aren't worth commenting on, but I did enjoy this gem from their review of the Garmin nuvi 3490LMT:
"This was among the first sat navs to take design cues from smartphones. To that end it's got a capacitive touchscreen, increased slimness and decreased thickness, live services via a connected smartphone app, and looks and feels great."
“There are many banks out there right now saying, ‘There but for the grace of God go us,’” said Gareth Lodge, a payments analyst at Celent, a financial consulting firm.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7762/27034203245_9560e2a1ff_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HbVmLv)
Missing apostrophe (https://flic.kr/p/HbVmLv)
That's the least of their problems, given the name will be changing (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=96003.0) to, "we are cycling The cyclists' champion UK."
From today Grauniad
<<A spokesman for Johnson on Tuesday defended his record on air pollution as mayor and said he had not hid its impact from Londoners.>>
From http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/17/boris-johnson-held-back-negative-findings-of-air-pollution-report?CMP=share_btn_tw (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/17/boris-johnson-held-back-negative-findings-of-air-pollution-report?CMP=share_btn_tw)
Can something really be "rare but not uncommon"? If not, TV's Ayshea Buksh will be looking forward to a period of re-education from the Party's Democracy of the Committed.A steak?
The media is reporting fuel shortages in certain locations in France
No, but "media are" is also acceptable. When using the word media to refer to the press/tv/radio collectively it is treated as singular or plural, in the same way as "data". If referring to, for e.g., a work of art in mixed media, then it is always "media are". On the other hand, if you're talking about several clairvoyants, they aremediumsfraudsters
Mind you, I've noticed that people say "there's" for "there are" quite regularly so perhaps "there're" is heading for oblivion.
MOD supplier Cobham has reported interested in a take-up for a right issue after announcing plans to trim its debt.
Landlady Pauline Forster has been battling for almost a decade to save her legendary music venue that has paid host to Anna Calvi, Factory Floor and John Cooper Clarke while Grace Jones, Grimes, Amy Winehouse and Kate Moss have all been shot in the 600-year-old tavern.
The British decision on June 23rd to leave the European Union is the legacy of Europe’s age-old divisions. Once Geoffrey Chaucer was inclined, and able, to write in English, it was a straight road to English nationalism and, by extension, Brexit.http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2016/07/language?spc=scode&spv=xm&ah=9d7f7ab945510a56fa6d37c30b6f1709
John Lewis are asking me to "Buy a new refrigerated appliance".
:-\
A USAnian-type chum of the missus's on FB:
"Do you live in a village type setting?"
No, dear, it's just a village.
They wore breathing apparatuses and used high powered water jets to put out the blaze.
As I understand it, it's not a term a man would apply to himself, more something a woman would say disparagingly of a man who is too ill to oblige her.I have no objections to that (the original, AFAIK) usage. What I'm complaining about is the use of both terms by men about themselves. I've heard (& seen in writing) both used by men about themselves - & it grates, horribly, like fingernails on a blackboard.
Famous as the world’s largest open submission show, there are certain things the Summer Exhibition delivers on every single year: a panorama of art in all mediums, a remarkable mixture of emerging artists and household names, and more to see and explore than any other exhibition you’re likely to visit this year.
But this year’s survey comes as a boost for Londoners who last year saw nine of the city's boroughs feature in the UK's ten most unhappiest places to live.
The whole point of the phrase or saying "man flu" is that it doesn't mean "influenza".
The whole point of the phrase or saying "man flu" is that it doesn't mean "influenza".
GPWM, but what about "Man Bag" or "Man Bun"?
The One Show (1900): Aired a short segment that looked at how during World War two Royal Engineers helped diffuse a 1000 ton bomb that fell near St Pauls Cathedral. This story was then juxtaposed by the equipment and training current bomb disposal units receive within the Royal Engineers and RLC.
It's not just the grammar in this one:Quote from: Daily Media round-up emailThe One Show (1900): Aired a short segment that looked at how during World War two Royal Engineers helped diffuse a 1000 ton bomb that fell near St Pauls Cathedral. This story was then juxtaposed by the equipment and training current bomb disposal units receive within the Royal Engineers and RLC.
:-\ but John Logie Baird didn't invent the distascope until 1926?Quote from: Daily Media round-up emailThe One Show (1900):
It's not exactly a major difference. 2240 lbs or 2204.5. As long as the USsian 'ton' (called a short ton in real English, because it is) isn't meant, in which case don't go there. 907 kg IS NOT A TON!
Yes, but we weren't looking at that. Different context, different criteria.It's not exactly a major difference. 2240 lbs or 2204.5. As long as the USsian 'ton' (called a short ton in real English, because it is) isn't meant, in which case don't go there. 907 kg IS NOT A TON!
when you're looking at 2 million tonnes of gas a year giving around 5million tonnes of CO2 it make enough of a difference that the regulators would be passing out hefty fines for your error
I was well into my second decade of journalism before I found out that “enormity” is a synonym for monstrosity or wickedness – not hugeness.I'm surprised you can go through over ten years of professional writing without knowing that. Also that someone in the same situation might not realise that order of adjectives is (more or less) set.
Not being able to eat when he chose was one of the freedoms Beard had left behind in the foolish south.
from a job ad
"Focusing on Productizing Science®"
aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhh :sick:
Heh heh heh. Jo wins this thread. Actually, the best thing about this thread is watching people get angry at perceived grammatical injustices only to find themselves damned within two posts. There's no camaraderie amongst the grammar police. On slip and the icepicks will be out.
Heh heh heh. Jo wins this thread. Actually, the best thing about this thread is watching people get angry at perceived grammatical injustices only to find themselves damned within two posts. There's no camaraderie amongst the grammar police. On slip and the icepicks will be out.
Yes but that voice comes direct from 1954 via the Time Trumpet. It's how they talked back then.
Announcements on the train. Typically along the lines of: "Passengers are reminded to keep your personal belongings with you at all times."the 'personal' is unnecessary too and really irritates me. What other belongings would I have with me?
First it's the use of the passive[-aggressive] voice that grates. Then they follow it up by mangling their personal pronouns. It makes my skin crawl.
"Passengers, please keep your personal belongings with you at all times." Isn't that much neater and clearer?
the 'personal' is unnecessary too and really irritates me. What other belongings would I have with me?
That's harsh - it's not every 30 seconds.
He said many other airports around the world had built runways over motorways.
It would involve "a very gentle hill up which the planes can take off".
I really don't think I like this sentence the chap says (talking about the new Heathrow runway)
A very gentle slope from which the planes can take off...
N.B. "he said". Nowadays reporters rarely presume to recast spoken remarks, even leaving in the ers and ums of their victims.Don't be daft - we can't start cutting people slack like that. There would barely be anything to post about!
From the Old Norse snókr (“a snake”) or snákr (“only in poetry; a snake”), from Proto-Germanic *snakô; cognates include the Swedish and Norwegian snok, Icelandic snákur (“a snake”), English snake.
That aside (and surely a transitive verb doesn't preclude consent, let alone connote non-consent), I don't think the usage is that modern.Well, I started snogging in the early 1970s, & had pretty much stopped using the word - or hearing it used - by a quarter of a century ago. As I recall, it was a rather youth-associated word when it became relevant to me.
IME it's been about 60/40 trans/non since I've been conscious of the term (so quarter of a century or more ...).
You have no rides currently in you're calendar.
To add some go to the event details and either enter the event, or click the 'Add to my calendar' option.
Incent. As in "Can you incent an internal team to come up with what a start-up has done in a reasonable timeframe?" I think this sounds nicer than incentivise, though it's less logical. Still, logic is not king in language.I thought up a logical explanation for it. Incentive is often used to modify other nouns, as in incentive scheme, incentive payments, so it gets thought of as an adjective. Many adjectives in -ive are formed from verbs: select, detect, permit > selective, detective, permissive. Therefore the verb incent is a natural back-formation from incentive. And it saves five key strokes over incentivise!
Only it was Charlie Stross, who purports to be British; [...]
According to OED they're variant spellings of each other, in the meaning of wreck. But the only sense it gives for rack as a verb is to draw off sediment from a barrel. What meaning is the intended one for 'racking cough' anyway? It could feasibly be drawing off sediment from the lungs, or it could be a comparison with being put on the rack, or it could be the idea of your lungs being twisted inside out, in which case it would be wrack.
Only it was Charlie Stross, who purports to be British; [...]
But who sells his stuff to the US, and is generally (IIRC from blog discussions over the years) copyedited by the US publisher.
Splitters and lumpers. Chambers' 4 and 5 seem to be subsets of 3. Alternatively, the OED is defining too coarsely.According to OED they're variant spellings of each other, in the meaning of wreck. But the only sense it gives for rack as a verb is to draw off sediment from a barrel. What meaning is the intended one for 'racking cough' anyway? It could feasibly be drawing off sediment from the lungs, or it could be a comparison with being put on the rack, or it could be the idea of your lungs being twisted inside out, in which case it would be wrack.
The OED is dragging its feet a bit. Chambers lists 5 senses for the verb:
verb (racked, racking)
1 to put something in a rack.
2 to move or adjust by rack and pinion.
3 historical to torture someone on a rack.
4 to stretch or move forcibly or excessively.
5 to cause pain or suffering to someone or something.
racked or (and usually regarded as an error) wracked adj tortured; tormented; distressed o be racked with guilt. Also in compounds o disease-racked.
on the rack
1 extremely anxious or distressed.
2 said of skill, etc: stretched to its limits.
rack one's brains to think as hard as one can, especially in order to remember something.
The cough would come under n° 5, causing pain and suffering. NB the bit I've underlined.
Agree re wrack as alternative to wreck, but AFAIK the usage is archaic (other than among those who have recourse to the OED to paper over mistakes). ;)
Ngram of wrack, wreck (https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=wrack%2C+wreck&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cwrack%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwreck%3B%2Cc0)
Someone on my Twitterfeed was ranting about a 'wreckless cyclist'.
I don't think they meant one with a pristine bike...
One of my bikes is rackless. That doesn't mean the other is wracked.
English RP is the forced and grating imposition of a Germanic structure onto an Anglo Saxon Language by the Saxe-Coburg Gothas.I'm afraid this confuses me. What does pronunciation have to do with the structure of a language? Different things, surely? And Anglo-Saxon is Germanic - more Germanic than modern English, RP or not, with its huge French vocabulary acquired via Anglo-Norman, loss of most case endings, etc.
RP may grate with Jock. I find it a useful way to entice phone droids to do my bidding with minimal effort.
I had an unhappy time in Glasgow and it is unfortunate that the accent serves as a reminder.
Like it or not, RP is more universally understood than some local variants. I happen to do these with ease but many don't.
Fenland Council fails the dating game test as FOUR times Chatteris firm planning incentivised switch to Alconbury snubs corporate director Gary Garford
QuoteFenland Council fails the dating game test as FOUR times Chatteris firm planning incentivised switch to Alconbury snubs corporate director Gary Garford
I have read this headline several times now and I don't have a bloody clue what they're on about. It has however, completely disincentivised me from clicking on the link and reading the story.
Do you believe that contrary to what the media says, raising taxes does not create jobs?
[] Yes
[] No
My pet hate...May I direct you to this? http://bbc.in/2cVOlR5
the "10 items or less" signs in my local Sainsbury's. >:(
I've been known to carry a marker pen around and correct them... ;D
"I am applying to [your chambers] as it would provide me with an opportunity to engage further in drugs supply and gang crime.":facepalm:
;D
Fenland Council fails the dating game test as FOUR times Chatteris firm planning incentivised switch to Alconbury snubs corporate director Gary Garford
QuoteFenland Council fails the dating game test as FOUR times Chatteris firm planning incentivised switch to Alconbury snubs corporate director Gary Garford
I have read this headline several times now and I don't have a bloody clue what they're on about. It has however, completely disincentivised me from clicking on the link and reading the story.
http://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/fenland_council_fails_the_dating_game_test_as_four_times_chatteris_firm_planning_incentivised_switch_to_alconbury_snubs_corporate_director_gary_garford_1_4888686 (http://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/fenland_council_fails_the_dating_game_test_as_four_times_chatteris_firm_planning_incentivised_switch_to_alconbury_snubs_corporate_director_gary_garford_1_4888686)
A5 Burnt Oak Broadway / Stag Lane - Reports of a road traffic collision in which traffic signals also struck.
Suggested change of title
The idiots responsible for the Jesusphone 7 advertising-announcement ITV have just screened have committed the #1 Romeo & Juliet-related language crime viz. taken "wherefore" to be a long-winded way of saying "where". i diskard them.
Hello everyone
I am a professional writer. Still I am working in a reputed writing company. We offer UK dissertation writing service, dissertation proposal writing service etc for students who have no idea about the writing rules and formatting. I am one among the trained professional writer and I used to read books and stay updated about the trends and changes in the writer's world.
best regards
steve smith
Hello everyone
I am a professional writer. Still I am working in a reputed writing company. We offer UK dissertation writing service, dissertation proposal writing service etc for students who have no idea about the writing rules and formatting. I am one among the trained professional writer and I used to read books and stay updated about the trends and changes in the writer's world.
best regards
steve smith
QuoteHello everyone
I am a professional writer. Still I am working in a reputed writing company. We offer UK dissertation writing service, dissertation proposal writing service etc for students who have no idea about the writing rules and formatting. I am one among the trained professional writer and I used to read books and stay updated about the trends and changes in the writer's world.
best regards
steve smith
You have brightened my day !
As a full time grammar Nazi, I will now enjoy sharing this with my long-suffering family.
"I used to read books"
Priceless.
Several times recently, I have heard the phrase "on a regular basis" being modified for emphasis, eg "on an extremely regular basis".
Now, I hate the phrase to start with - not only is itunnecessarilyverbose*, it doesn't mean what people think it means.
Christmas happens "on an extremely regular basis". Halley's comet passes by the Earth "on an extremely regular basis".
If you mean "very often", why not say "very often"?
I am trying hard not to lose any sleep over this unimportant matter.
*ETA: yes, I know - verbosity implies lack of necessity
Ah yes. Regular vs frequent. I am always surprised at how many people think these are interchangeable.
Yeah, like deny & refute.Ah yes. Regular vs frequent. I am always surprised at how many people think these are interchangeable.
As a general principle, I don't have a problem with words changing their meaning. I know that English is not a dead language.
However, two things bother me about it. First, we already have a word that means frequent. Second, we no longer have a word that means regular.
It's inefficient use of language. Doubleplusungood.
See also: precise vs accurate
Myself, yourself, etc as false formalities really grate on me, although this is really just a matter of style.
Myself, yourself, etc as false formalities really grate on me, although this is really just a matter of style. Their misuse doesn't actually lose any meaning, unlike regular/frequent.
Maybe it's the historian and general heritage nutter in me but I always feel loathed to criticise money being spent on buildings which are of national importance...;D
Dunno about cringe. This, from another place, made I point and larffe;DQuoteMaybe it's the historian and general heritage nutter in me but I always feel loathed to criticise money being spent on buildings which are of national importance...;D
There is a world of difference in the meanings of "disinterested" and "uninterested".
Dolts who get this wrong should be tied to a plank, have their shoes and socks removed and the soles of their feet coated with salt, and then laid down in an enclosure containing goats.
gets on my tits
I hesitate to call you a Canute, but I think that battle is lost.
I hesitate to call you a Canute, but I think that battle is lost.
I hesitate to call you a Canute, but [...]
I hesitate to call you a Canute, but [...]
As we're all sitting comfortably in pedants' corner, may I suggest that Canute's fable wasn't about an act of hubris, but rather a demonstration to his courtiers of his humility in his powerlessness to stop the tide?
Myself, yourself, etc as false formalities really grate on me, although this is really just a matter of style. Their misuse doesn't actually lose any meaning, unlike regular/frequent.
ARTHUR: Yeah, will do. Er, but first, can myself draw yourself’s kindly attention to the sign that the captain has kindly en-illuminated in regard to the fastenation of your seatbelt during the current highly-unlikely event of turbulence?
MR. BIRLING: What?
ARTHUR: Could you do your seatbelt up?
Myself, yourself, etc as false formalities really grate on me, although this is really just a matter of style. Their misuse doesn't actually lose any meaning, unlike regular/frequent.Quote from: Cabin PressureARTHUR: Yeah, will do. Er, but first, can myself draw yourself’s kindly attention to the sign that the captain has kindly en-illuminated in regard to the fastenation of your seatbelt during the current highly-unlikely event of turbulence?
MR. BIRLING: What?
ARTHUR: Could you do your seatbelt up?
Blanchett, who also a vocal critic of President Donald Trump, has long been an advocate for sexism in Hollywood
Appearing on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, Blanchett was asked where her so-called “moral compass” lied.http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/cate-blancett-moral-compass-vagina-the-present-a7618501.html
The idea of a moral compass that lies is worth exploring too.I think we should get Philip Pullman on the case. I'm imagining a sort of alethiometer with attitude.
That they mean 'right wing libertarian'? ???unless it's neo-liberal, of course ;)
To my mind, 'liberal' can never go in the same sentence as 'right wing'. Apart from in that sentence, obviously! ;)
Not that it's grammar.
But then (A) you need a conjunction before packing.
Doesn't the resolution essentially boil down to the judge deciding it was boring, declaring it ambiguous (in other words, he couldn't be arsed deciding between two sets of grammar pedants), and following the principle that ambiguity should be interpreted in favour of the weaker party to the contract, in this case the employees?
Gerunds, people!
For the drivers to be covered by this clause, it would have to be distributing, in line with the other activities in the list, Oxford comma or no.
Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
There again, the rest of the sentence is hardly better grammar.
And anyway, every time I read it I try to think of 64 words for snow.
:thumbsup:And anyway, every time I read it I try to think of 64 words for snow.
;D
I know we have done making verbs out of other words before but this made me cringe: Nicki Minaj Bests Aretha Franklin for Most Hot 100 Hits By Female Artist (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nicki-minaj-bests-aretha-franklin-for-most-hot-100-hits-w473028). It could have been written Nicki Minaj beats Aretha or Nicki Minaj surpasses Aretha and made more sense. There again, the rest of the sentence is hardly better grammar.
If you follow the link, be aware that the photo may not be entirely appropriate at work, although I thought her microphone was the most offensive item on display.
Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
A company I work for has the same rule. I haven't even asked them why, as I doubt there is a reason beyond "it's our rule" and in any case, it's fairly easy to comply with.Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.
When I typed up a short story for submission in the 60s the standard (they said) was double line spacing, two spaces after a colon or semicolon, and three after a full stop. They said it made proof-reading and marking-up easier.Back in the days when you put proofreading marks on a typescript with a red pen or pencil, using the spaces between the lines. Not much point when the software shuffles things up for you & records all your changes, with you able to choose where it shows them.
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.That was standard for typewriters. It makes sense with monospaced typewriter fonts.
Of course, the only true way to record information is to paint an area of Tipp-Ex and then scratch your words into it with the pointy end of a compass.
Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.
Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.
This was standard practice for typists on manual keyboards in days of yore.
I see others concur.
Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.
Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.
Yep.Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.
This was standard practice for typists on manual keyboards in days of yore.
I see others concur.
It seems I know more than I know I know.
It seems I know more than I know I know.
You are Donald Rumsfeld, and I claim my five Pounds. :demon:
Yep.Not me, but Dez . He is preparing stuff for webcasts in French. It seems that it is a thing in France that a space is placed before punctuation . I have never heard of this before . Is it normal ? Or just this particular client ?
My previous companies house style on reports was a double space after a full stop. Nobody could explain why.
This was standard practice for typists on manual keyboards in days of yore.
I see others concur.
Those of us who learned to use a keyboard in an IT job 35 years ago never learned such rules, because they weren't relevant.
It was still used by people preparing documents which needed proofreading, because that was done manually for some years after word processors were invented, until the software could do it properly. I proofread manuals for software I was helping to write, back in the 1980s. I do it for a living now, but none of my colleagues know the old proofreading marks (or even, in some cases, of their existence), or know of any reason for double-spaced drafts, etc. Anywhere they hang on is just a tradition, done for mostly forgotten reasons.
I didn't think I knew proofreading marks, but I've just googled and it seems I've been using many of the content-related ones all along. (Proofing for typesetting being somewhat redundant since before I ever had to do any.)
I think that most of what I proofread & polish the English of (it's almost all translations from Japanese) probably never touches paper. It sits on servers as web pages, or downloadable PDFs, or is a presentation for one-off use, e.g. at a conference. Spellcheckers have greatly reduced one part of the proofreaders task, & I don't really get asked to do layout correction. I think the customers mostly do that themselves, or for corporate brochures & the like send the final text back to whoever did the design to fit in. But people called proofreaders have had their job expand into copy editing.Yeah, I don't think there's any practical distinction between proofreading and copy editing nowadays. I don't entirely agree about spellcheckers though; they insure that watt yew have ridden is a reel word but not that it is the write word.
I think that most of what I proofread & polish the English of (it's almost all translations from Japanese) probably never touches paper.
I think that most of what I proofread & polish the English of (it's almost all translations from Japanese) probably never touches paper.
Same here, which is largely down to modern working practices - ie we're not all in the same office any more but working from home.
I still prefer proofreading on paper but there's no point when you can't pass the marked proof back across the desk to the person who will be taking in the corrections. Although I do sometimes get sent pdfs of scanned documents with proofing marks on them.
Kids these days probably don't even know what a galley is, amirite?
Kids these days probably don't even know what a galley is, amirite?
NOOOO!!!!Kids these days probably don't even know what a galley is, amirite?
Massive wooden fing wiv oars, innit
Indeed my grate friend Dave once wrote a data analysis assignment discussing, at length, the floored arguments.I think that most of what I proofread & polish the English of (it's almost all translations from Japanese) probably never touches paper. It sits on servers as web pages, or downloadable PDFs, or is a presentation for one-off use, e.g. at a conference. Spellcheckers have greatly reduced one part of the proofreaders task, & I don't really get asked to do layout correction. I think the customers mostly do that themselves, or for corporate brochures & the like send the final text back to whoever did the design to fit in. But people called proofreaders have had their job expand into copy editing.Yeah, I don't think there's any practical distinction between proofreading and copy editing nowadays. I don't entirely agree about spellcheckers though; they insure that watt yew have ridden is a reel word but not that it is the write word.
I think that most of what I proofread & polish the English of (it's almost all translations from Japanese) probably never touches paper.
Same here, which is largely down to modern working practices - ie we're not all in the same office any more but working from home.
I still prefer proofreading on paper but there's no point when you can't pass the marked proof back across the desk to the person who will be taking in the corrections. Although I do sometimes get sent pdfs of scanned documents with proofing marks on them.
Kids these days probably don't even know what a galley is, amirite?
You are. And they can't fucking well align columns.
For my sins, I have to write in American as it's our house style.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/23/more-than-half-australian-snake-bite-deaths-since-2000-occurred-at-victims-home
You'd have thought they would have learned not to visit him, wouldn't you?
The stuff I work on is mostly in USian, but not 100%. Some of it involves international agencies which use English, & the Japanese government stuff is often in English, dating back to when they first started talking to foreign gubbinments, I think. I've checked letters from ministers to foreign governments (no-security form letters of thanks consisting of a bit of boilerplate customised for the occasion) & IIRC the standard text has always been in English. But a lot of internal & local govt. stuff is in USian.I think that most of what I proofread & polish the English of (it's almost all translations from Japanese) probably never touches paper.
Same here, which is largely down to modern working practices - ie we're not all in the same office any more but working from home.
I still prefer proofreading on paper but there's no point when you can't pass the marked proof back across the desk to the person who will be taking in the corrections. Although I do sometimes get sent pdfs of scanned documents with proofing marks on them.
Kids these days probably don't even know what a galley is, amirite?
You are. And they can't fucking well align columns.
For my sins, I have to write in American as it's our house style.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/23/more-than-half-australian-snake-bite-deaths-since-2000-occurred-at-victims-home
You'd have thought they would have learned not to visit him, wouldn't you?
I think that's fine - only one victim per bite.
"Victims' home" would also imply that they all lived together.
Surely should be "victims' homes".
implies one victim and one home
implies one victim and one home
...for each incident.
Come on, Citoyen! If you are going to be a grammar pedant you have got to do it properly!
And "next station stop" in onboard announcements. Why not just "next stop" or "next station"?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/23/more-than-half-australian-snake-bite-deaths-since-2000-occurred-at-victims-home
You'd have thought they would have learned not to visit him, wouldn't you?
I think that's fine - only one victim per bite.
"Victims' home" would also imply that they all lived together.
Surely should be "victims' homes".
Edit: I was talking about the headline rather than the wording of the link.
The Herald p12-13 (p3): A hotel is set to be built on Drake’s island near Portsmouth after finally getting planning permission, and neither EPA or the MOD have no objections to the scheme.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08kys4c
I can spot four there...QuoteThe Herald p12-13 (p3): A hotel is set to be built on Drake’s island near Portsmouth after finally getting planning permission, and neither EPA or the MOD have no objections to the scheme.
Spotted today on a construction site banner: "The Sport, Health and Wellbeing facility will transform the Universitys campus with a new, state-of-the-art building..."
I'd expect better from a university. :facepalm:
Ian Tregillis is an entertaining writer, but his vocabulary doesn't stretch as far as he thinks it does. People and devices don't run over polished floors with surety unless they're in a hurry to placate a banker.That's what editors are for.
6 modern artists we wouldn't have without Ella Fitzgerald
Discover who's sound has been influenced by the wonderful Ella Fitzgerald
I wonder if the gentleman who figures on the poster above the cupcake'''''s contributed any ingredients, although to judge from the stoned expressions of the ethereal maidens beneath it was more likely the tea.I think he might have contributed some of the colourings!
Quote from: BBC Radio 26 modern artists we wouldn't have without Ella Fitzgerald
That bit is iffy (six/6: I'm not a stickler), but this grates:QuoteDiscover who's sound has been influenced by the wonderful Ella Fitzgerald
Yeah, the repetition of the full name in a short heading is pretty clunky, too.
...
is being criticised by some cringeworthy pedants
...
...
is being criticised by some cringeworthy pedants
...
You do know what thread you posted this on, don't you?
:P
"optics" used to mean appearance/appearances, etc. Dammit I hate, loathe & despise that misuse of the word!
On slate.com, a gentleman by the name of Phil Plait discourses on the "multihued cacophony" of iridescent clouds. They must bang together or summat, like saucepans.
We can literally call it literal literalism.
On slate.com, a gentleman by the name of Phil Plait discourses on the "multihued cacophony" of iridescent clouds. They must bang together or summat, like saucepans.
Perhaps start a new thread called "Ban all metaphor now!" ? Or perhaps "Send all metaphors to the gallows!".
And Shakespeare got there before himWe can literally call it literal literalism.
FTFY. But Ogden Nash got there first with "Very Like A Whale" and one literally wouldn't wish to contradict him, in any sense of the word.
POLONIUS
My lord, the queen would speak with you, and presently.
HAMLET
Do you see yonder cloud that’s almost in shape of a camel?
POLONIUS
By th' mass, and ’tis like a camel indeed.
HAMLET
Methinks it is like a weasel.
POLONIUS
It is backed like a weasel.
HAMLET
Or like a whale.
POLONIUS
Very like a whale.
HAMLET
Then I will come to my mother by and by. (aside) They fool me to the top of my bent.—I will come by and by.
POLONIUS
I will say so.
HAMLET
“By and by” is easily said.
On slate.com, a gentleman by the name of Phil Plait discourses on the "multihued cacophony" of iridescent clouds. They must bang together or summat, like saucepans.
Perhaps start a new thread called "Ban all metaphor now!" ? Or perhaps "Send all metaphors to the gallows!".
Ah come on. It's closer to malapropism than metaphor - unless he suffers from synaesthesia, of course.
On slate.com, a gentleman by the name of Phil Plait discourses on the "multihued cacophony" of iridescent clouds. They must bang together or summat, like saucepans.
Perhaps start a new thread called "Ban all metaphor now!" ? Or perhaps "Send all metaphors to the gallows!".
Ah come on. It's closer to malapropism than metaphor - unless he suffers from synaesthesia, of course.
I haven't heard a squeak from my colleague's loud shirt this morning.
I think this one isn't just a spelling error, but from a misunderstanding of the origin & meaning of the term: shoe-in :facepalm: instead of shoo-in, as if it had something to do with giving something a kicking, not waving it through.
I think this one isn't just a spelling error, but from a misunderstanding of the origin & meaning of the term: shoe-in :facepalm: instead of shoo-in, as if it had something to do with giving something a kicking, not waving it through.
I think this one isn't just a spelling error, but from a misunderstanding of the origin & meaning of the term: shoe-in :facepalm: instead of shoo-in, as if it had something to do with giving something a kicking, not waving it through.
That's in the same box as "Fine tooth-comb", which we have probably had before.
I think this one isn't just a spelling error, but from a misunderstanding of the origin & meaning of the term: shoe-in :facepalm: instead of shoo-in, as if it had something to do with giving something a kicking, not waving it through.
That's in the same box as "Fine tooth-comb", which we have probably had before.
Raise to the ground
Tow the line
ect.
As eny fule kno, "ect" has honourable origins, being a creation of n molesworth, the gorila of 3B and curse of st custards ect ect.
Fine tooth-comb
I thought that fine and tooth are adjectives describing the comb and, as such, it would be a fine toothed comb. Similarly, box set, as in a box set of CDs or DVDs, I would instead describe them as a boxed set.
Do I need to correct my understanding and my grammar?
I was talking to an American doctor about respiratory medicine the other day. She was pulling that funny face Americans do when they don't understand. Oh, respiratory, she finally says. I confess, though I'm quite good at switching between British and American English, I've somehow never noticed that one.
I was talking to an American doctor about respiratory medicine the other day. She was pulling that funny face Americans do when they don't understand. Oh, respiratory, she finally says. I confess, though I'm quite good at switching between British and American English, I've somehow never noticed that one.Wow, that's weird!
US Armyspeak
words-for-things-invented-in-the-first-half-of-the-20th-century problem
Oh-bee-gee-why-en. Possibly Americans don't like saying gynaecology. Or maybe obstetrics just asks for a contraction. I shall collect my outer garment now.
In a sides-of-the-Atlantic context, might it be that that's the time when the two sides were most fiercely established as separate?
Going back to respiratory, it strikes me that in general Americans are more likely to pronounce a word, particularly a technical word, nearly as it's written, whereas the British pronunciation will swallow a syllable or two.
In a sides-of-the-Atlantic context, might it be that that's the time when the two sides were most fiercely established as separate?
In a sides-of-the-Atlantic context, might it be that that's the time when the two sides were most fiercely established as separate?
Going back to respiratory, it strikes me that in general Americans are more likely to pronounce a word, particularly a technical word, nearly as it's written, whereas the British pronunciation will swallow a syllable or two.
Uh?
I thought the American said respratory and Brits said resPIRatory.
Also, the Dunfallandy Stone in Pitlochry, Perthshire.
In theory. But are all employees female?Why do you ask?
In theory. But are all employees female?Why do you ask?
I think that the "ee" suffix denotes relationship, not sex/gender.
"blocks up to 100% of unwanted calls"Ah yes ...
on the side of a phone packaging.
Well it can't block more than 100% can it. Whilst absolutely accurate that statement is utterly pointless
"blocks up to 100% of unwanted calls"
on the side of a phone packaging.
Well it can't block more than 100% can it. Whilst absolutely accurate that statement is utterly pointless
I read of the unfortunate demise of a man who has fallen about 100 feet to his death.
He apparently worked as a a sports masseuse in Brighton's Grand Hotel.
Males are masseurs, n'est-ce pas?
I suspect it'll be an abomination like male midwife. (I think we've just about seen off male nurse.)ISTRC midwife has managed not to become "male". Etymologically speaking the "wife" bit refers to the woman giving birth, not the person helping.
The word derives from Old English mid, "with" and wif, "woman", and thus originally meant "with-woman", that is, the woman who is with the mother at childbirth
I'd imagine the term midwife would be replaced by something like birth assistant or natal specialist nurse (this last probably not used in South Africa!)
Some friends and I had an interesting conversation yesterday leading on from a comment I made relating to them that I had been gifted some rhubarb by a generous neighbour. Two of them in particular were adamant that I gift or gifted could not be used as a verb.
Websters dictionary, which was on the shelf in the pub and is regularly used by crossworders, supported my use of gifted used as a transitive verb though my own OED is silent on the matter. I'd be interested in the opinions of the learned folk herein.
I suspect it'll be an abomination like male midwife. (I think we've just about seen off male nurse.)
Garden cultivator or farm machinery? I can't imagine a UK bank manager in charge of agricultural equipment!Some friends and I had an interesting conversation yesterday leading on from a comment I made relating to them that I had been gifted some rhubarb by a generous neighbour. Two of them in particular were adamant that I gift or gifted could not be used as a verb.
Websters dictionary, which was on the shelf in the pub and is regularly used by crossworders, supported my use of gifted used as a transitive verb though my own OED is silent on the matter. I'd be interested in the opinions of the learned folk herein.
Dodgy one, that. I have a feeling that to gift is an archaic usage revived not so long ago (10 - 20 years, maybe) in the US as an aid to pomposity, and smuggled into normal English via the Internet. I avoid it.
I can't think of any others just now, but in the past I have looked up other strange usages only to find that they date from the 16th century.
Irrelevantly, our bank manager once turned up on our doorstep with a big parcel of rhubarb after he nearly knocked me off my bike while driving a cultivator.
Upon inspection of the external walls we can report that these were mainly painted solid brickwork, with some areas having rendered finish, these elevations appeared to be in reasonable condition, considering the age of the property, however, there was hairline to 2mm cracking in evidence to a few isolated areas, this was particularly prevalent to the front of the property, where the staircase anex (sic) adjoined the main property on the right-hand side, around the corner of the window, we attribute this to be possible differential movement of the related foundations and the movement appears historic but potentially ongoing.Where to start?
Where to start?
Good Morning fboab,
Following on from our conversation on the 19/07/17 regarding the above subjects , I would like to be considered a supplier of such products ,I know you mentioned it’s not something you’d be interested in at present , but by all means have a perusal of our services in the attached brochure’s.
Am I the only one to cringe at the increasing use of "rooves" as the plural of roof?
Roof, hoof, proofAm I the only one to cringe at the increasing use of "rooves" as the plural of roof?
What else would it be? I'm fairly sure that's what I was taught. 'Roofs' just sounds wrong.
Urbandictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rooves) would appear to have the best answer...
The misuse of the question mark vexes me greatly.
For example, in an email from my boss:
"Chris will print a hard copy for each of you to look at. I hope you like it?"
"I hope you like it" is not a question, so doesn't require a question mark.
The misuse of the question mark vexes me greatly.
For example, in an email from my boss:
"Chris will print a hard copy for each of you to look at. I hope you like it?"
"I hope you like it" is not a question, so doesn't require a question mark.
Is he Australian?
Kamila Gasiuk-Pihowicz, a leading member of the opposition party Modern, called it a step in the right direction and an “act of courage.” She said Duda’s decision also shows the power of civic protests.Poor journalism rather than bad grammar. Nowoczesna and "Modern" are the same party. Either translate consistently or don't translate at all.
Katarzyna Lubnauer, head of the parliamentary caucus of the opposition party Nowoczesna, said: “What we had was not a reform, but appropriation of the courts. I congratulate all Poles, this is a great success”.
When asked whether the Queen, who is his godmother, said anything to him about the eulogy, he said a friend had told him she said he had a right to say whatever he felt.Reminds me of "But am I in the pension scheme?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAhKnINpWx0) ;D
As did 'fuck' (or at least, the verb meant 'to strike') before its meaning was superseded following an importation from Dutch, Fresian or Low German, if this (https://solongasitswords.wordpress.com/2014/02/12/on-the-origin-of-fuck/) is to be believed.
My 1960s Concise Oxford lists gift as a verb, but as its least important meaning.Some friends and I had an interesting conversation yesterday leading on from a comment I made relating to them that I had been gifted some rhubarb by a generous neighbour. Two of them in particular were adamant that I gift or gifted could not be used as a verb.
Websters dictionary, which was on the shelf in the pub and is regularly used by crossworders, supported my use of gifted used as a transitive verb though my own OED is silent on the matter. I'd be interested in the opinions of the learned folk herein.
Dodgy one, that. I have a feeling that to gift is an archaic usage revived not so long ago (10 - 20 years, maybe) in the US as an aid to pomposity, and smuggled into normal English via the Internet. I avoid it.
I can't think of any others just now, but in the past I have looked up other strange usages only to find that they date from the 16th century.
Irrelevantly, our bank manager once turned up on our doorstep with a big parcel of rhubarb after he nearly knocked me off my bike while driving a cultivator.
Anyway, I stumbled in here because I'm fed up seeing such abortions as "singers damaging their voice". Voices, you egregious dimwits.
Goes to show that grammar should be decided case by case, rather than by pedantic adherence to a rule.
Goes to show that grammar should be decided case by case, rather than by pedantic adherence to a rule.
Actually, it doesn't. Remove the adjective, which is a matter of opinion, and what's left?
Goes to show that grammar should be decided case by case, rather than by pedantic adherence to a rule.
Anyway, I stumbled in here because I'm fed up seeing such abortions as "singers damaging their voice". Voices, you egregious dimwits.
We've discussed this one before...
What I was taught is that since each singer has only one voice, the singular is correct.
It's arguable either way.
Yet constructions such as "their voice was damaged" are distinctly queer.
Meanwhile, an English FB friend of Mrs T42 asked her the other day what an adverb was, because she had to learn Spanish and had never been taught any grammar at school. :o WTF do they learn at school these days? Zen defecation?*
Only three of my (top set) GCSE class could identify the grammatical error in Henry Reed's line "You can do it quite easy if you have any strength in your thumb" when we were studying war poetry. Of those three, two were confident that to be grammatically (rather that poetically) correct the word needed was 'easily'. Of those two, only I knew that this was becasue easy is not an adverb...
The next Monday, when the fathers were all back at work, we kids were playing in a field. One kid says to me, “See that bird? What kind of bird is that?” I said, “I haven’t the slightest idea what kind of a bird it is.” He says, “It’s a brown-throated thrush. Your father doesn’t teach you anything!” But it was the opposite. He had already taught me: “See that bird?” he says. “It’s a Spencer’s warbler.” (I knew he didn’t know the real name.) “Well, in Italian, it’s a Chutto Lapittida. In Portuguese, it’s a Bom da Peida. In Chinese, it’s a Chung-long-tah, and in Japanese, it’s a Katano Tekeda. You can know the name of that bird in all the languages of the world, but when you’re finished, you’ll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird. You’ll only know about humans in different places, and what they call the bird. So let’s look at the bird and see what it’s doing—that’s what counts.”
'They' as a singular pronoun has *centuries* of previous usage as a precedent. It's weird that people seem to dislike it so much, especially as an unambiguous non-gender-specific singular pronoun makes for a useful distinction in practice.
Meanwhile, an English FB friend of Mrs T42 asked her the other day what an adverb was, because she had to learn Spanish and had never been taught any grammar at school. :o WTF do they learn at school these days? Zen defecation?*
Don't go there. My youngest was set a target in Y3 (at the age of 7) to use fronted adverbials in his writing. The teaching of SPAG these days would bring joy to the harshest pedant... it's a shame that it crushes the joy out of writing.
Of course, in those days I clearly remember a lesson in my first year at secondary school when we were suppposed to separate a list of words into nouns, verbs and adjectives. When I put my hand up to point out that one of the words was none of the above my teacher said it must be, then came to look when I said that it really wasn't because it was like an adjective for verbs and we'd been learning that adjectives described nouns. That is how my English class learned what an adverb was.
Only three of my (top set) GCSE class could identify the grammatical error in Henry Reed's line "You can do it quite easy if you have any strength in your thumb" when we were studying war poetry. Of those three, two were confident that to be grammatically (rather that poetically) correct the word needed was 'easily'. Of those two, only I knew that this was becasue easy is not an adverb...
Why the fuck are kids being taught fronted adverbials anyway? Do the educational authorities want to make them all sound like Yoda?
I dozen kno wot a fronted adverbial is and I pretend to be literate.
Why the fuck are kids being taught fronted adverbials anyway? Do the educational authorities want to make them all sound like Yoda?
It's not 9-10 year olds that get the fronted adverbial shite, it is the 7-8 year olds.
Why the fuck are kids being taught fronted adverbials anyway? Do the educational authorities want to make them all sound like Yoda?
Because Gove?
'They' as a singular pronoun has *centuries* of previous usage as a precedent. It's weird that people seem to dislike it so much, especially as an unambiguous non-gender-specific singular pronoun makes for a useful distinction in practice.
In formal use it still looks as if it has wandered into a wedding reception wearing unmatched gumboots.
I don't much mind it, though, as long as the rest of the text is consistent. Sentences that begin with "a person" and "their" only to end with "him" and "his" make me unbutton the flap of my holster.
And it's bloody stupid when it's under the photo of what is patently a bloke. Or must the genitals be in view?
That makes it sound like Gove was conceived as a result of grammar being taught at school. In which case, I'm all for the innocent virtues of illiteracy.Why the fuck are kids being taught fronted adverbials anyway? Do the educational authorities want to make them all sound like Yoda?
Because Gove?
I expect that someone, quite reasonably, pointed out that it might be useful to learn some grammar in school. And then Gove happened.
I do remember we had to pick books and read them. Probably while the teacher snuck out for a smoke, which is what teachers did a lot back then, well that and the ever popular running off with sixteen year olds. Sometimes we had to read sections of our chosen novel in class, which was appropriately horrid. Thirty pairs of eyes would fall to the floor the moment our teacher look up and said 'so who next'. I think my eyeballs once scuttled into the next classroom to evade the task. One microsecond of eye contact was all it took for an Ian?.
We need a specific name for verbing nouns, like we have gerund for nouning verbs.
Being forced to read out loud was, of course, an acutely embarrassing form of aural nakedity.
I don't think this particular education tool has been used in the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_diagram
It's not 9-10 year olds that get the fronted adverbial shite, it is the 7-8 year olds.
That's insane.
What really offends me is not that they're being taught the idea of moving adverb phrases to the front of the sentence, which is moderately useful (if a little advanced for that age group), but that they are required to know the term 'fronted adverbial', which is recondite educationalist jargon, of no earthly use to anyone in the real world.
Since this thread is about grammar that makes you cringe, I'll also point out that this use of 'fronted' makes me cringe big time.
Betcha it snuck in from over there.
I had manged fifty-three years of not knowing what a "fronted adverbial" is.
I hope it is only barbers, talking about the problems running resonant clippers designed for 60 Hz mains on 50 Hz, who say that Hertz is a measure of "hertage".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4eFU2fPXAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4eFU2fPXAA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfeErR17uUc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfeErR17uUc)
Interestingly, spent Mr Larrington much childhood in Germany, where fronted adverbs commonplace are...
I thought it was AAA points that were the measure of hurtage.
People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
Going metric with the punctuation in the last one. :thumbsup:People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
One of my colleagues does this all the time. If I'm editing his copy, I usually change it to 'loads' or something else to avoid the issue.
I think it's a form of hypercorrection, whereby all units are pedantically expressed in metric even if used figuratively.
See also: hiding your light under 36.387 litres, going the whole 8.23 metres, give them 2.54cm and they'll take 1,6km...
Going metric with the punctuation in the last one. :thumbsup:
See also: hide your light under 36.387 litres, go the whole 8.23 metres, give them 2.54cm and they'll take 1,6km...
Or 1.143 m up in Yorks.
I remember reading a novel by Philip José Farmer untold years ago in which he (or his editor) had stated every quantity in imperial with the metric equivalent in brackets after it, thus: "about a mile (1.6 km) up the river he could see...". Kinda broke the rhythm.
Or 1.143 m up in Yorks.
Or 42cm if you go back to the oldest version of the saying.
People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
maybe they do mean tonne?
People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
maybe they do mean tonne? I deal in 1000kg tonnes all the time and am careful to use either the full spelling or te to avoid any Americanism or imperialism creeping in
Environment body Natural Resources Wales (NRW) said it discovered the remains of the hedgerow beech trees amounting to 200 metres cubed of felled timber.
I don't think this particular education tool has been used in the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_diagram
Probably only in Computer Science.
I recall wandering around Sri Lanka in the 1980s & noticing that railway stations had the altitude on the main name sign.People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
One of my colleagues does this all the time. If I'm editing his copy, I usually change it to 'loads' or something else to avoid the issue.
I think it's a form of hypercorrection, whereby all units are pedantically expressed in metric even if used figuratively.
See also: hide your light under 36.387 litres, go the whole 8.23 metres, give them 2.54cm and they'll take 1,6km...
Then I read on and it got worse. That third sentence is 37 words long. :facepalm:
Bumf or even arsef.
Perhaps they could have said something like 'Have you qualified for a selective school?' in the headline
There's so much that's infelicitous in the last sentence that it's hard to know where to start.
I'd echo Peter's question. Is 'deemed selective' an actual phrase in Kent or has the school made it up?
It is, admittedly, a peculiarly awful piece of text. I feel sure the school in question features an 'executive leadership team.'
It's all bizarre to me. I went to the local comprehensive because that was the only school there was.
I'm surprised they even need to advertise the open days. )
I recall wandering around Sri Lanka in the 1980s & noticing that railway stations had the altitude on the main name sign.People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
One of my colleagues does this all the time. If I'm editing his copy, I usually change it to 'loads' or something else to avoid the issue.
I think it's a form of hypercorrection, whereby all units are pedantically expressed in metric even if used figuratively.
See also: hide your light under 36.387 litres, go the whole 8.23 metres, give them 2.54cm and they'll take 1,6km...
In metres, in multiples of 3.05. :facepalm:
At least it wasn't in multiples of 3.048.
Asked by Campbell if gay sex was sinful, Welby said: “You know very well that is a question I can’t give a straight answer to. Sorry, badly phrased there. I should have thought that one through.”But then he spoils it by talking about "enormity".
In his GQ interview, Welby also said he hoped he would not have to preside over the Queen’s funeral. “It’s enormous whoever does it – God willing someone else – because it is an enormous public event. But as a parish priest, at every funeral you think about the enormity of it.I don't think he really means that. Or maybe he does?
Oxford Dictionary gives that as a common accepted usage, and who would argue with them?
1.1 (in neutral use) large size or scale.
‘I began to get a sense of the enormity of the task’
Usagehttps://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/enormity
Enormity traditionally means ‘the extreme scale or seriousness of something bad or morally wrong’, as in residents of the town were struggling to deal with the enormity of the crime. Today, however, a more neutral sense as a synonym for hugeness or immensity, as in he soon discovered the enormity of the task, is common. Some people regard this use as wrong, arguing that enormity in its original sense meant ‘a crime’ and should therefore continue to be used only of contexts in which a negative moral judgement is implied. Nevertheless, the sense is now broadly accepted in standard English, although it generally relates to something difficult, such as a task, challenge, or achievement
Its meaning was settled. Sloppy nitwits have screwed it up.
Objectively, you know that Elaine is desirable and you feel obligated to desire her.
Mind you, I'm the twat who asks for a panino at the sarnie shop...
We had 'obligated' a page or two back. I've been into a secondhand (ie charity) bookshop and come out with Bright Lights, Big City. Opening it at random, I was struck byQuoteObjectively, you know that Elaine is desirable and you feel obligated to desire her.
Mind you, I'm the twat who asks for a panino at the sarnie shop...
:thumbsup:
From the same source:We had 'obligated' a page or two back. I've been into a secondhand (ie charity) bookshop and come out with Bright Lights, Big City. Opening it at random, I was struck byQuoteObjectively, you know that Elaine is desirable and you feel obligated to desire her.
American, 1984. It fits.
The matter is still under advisement.Ugly but, again, it fits.
I knew of one train commuter who used to fill in his Times crossword with unutterable* filth then toss the paper casually on the seat and walk out of the compartment, just for the fun of watching other passengers crane at his answers or even dive to pick it up before anyone else.
Everybody on GBBO last night referring to pastéis de nata as if it were singular.
Mind you, I'm the twat who asks for a panino at the sarnie shop...
I recall wandering around Sri Lanka in the 1980s & noticing that railway stations had the altitude on the main name sign.People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.
One of my colleagues does this all the time. If I'm editing his copy, I usually change it to 'loads' or something else to avoid the issue.
I think it's a form of hypercorrection, whereby all units are pedantically expressed in metric even if used figuratively.
See also: hide your light under 36.387 litres, go the whole 8.23 metres, give them 2.54cm and they'll take 1,6km...
In metres, in multiples of 3.05. :facepalm:
At least it wasn't in multiples of 3.048.
We have height restriction barriers at work which are labelled as "Maximum height 5.334 m". :facepalm:
On Friday my whole family went for a ride in my brother's new car. My brother bought this new Pontiac last week, and he wanted to take us all for a ride – you know, to try it out and everything? ... And then, let's see, on Saturday I stayed home all day and helped my mother make my sister's wedding dress. My sister's engaged to be married, you see, and my mother's making this wedding dress for her?
We saw Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde. It was real good too. It's all about this guy who mixes up this chemical, like, that he drinks?
And whenever he drinks this chemical, he changes into this real monster, like? You see him drink this chemical, and then you see his hands start to get all scales all over them, like a reptile and everything, and then you see his face start to change into this real horrible-looking face – with fangs and all? Sticking out of his mouth?
On Sunday, Bill Stringer came over to my house, and my dad helped rig up this old tire on this long rope? From a tree? There's this steep hill down behind my house, you see – this ravine, like? – and we hung this tire so that what you do is, you take the tire and run a little ways and then lift your feet, and you go swinging way, way out over the ravine and back.Fourth grade children telling stories in class, NY State, mid-1950s.
Not 'different to'? :demon:
Probably said it before but: "different than" >:( >:( :facepalm: :facepalm:
It's different FROM!! ::-)
Not 'different to'? :demon:yeah that's fine, just not different than.
Hash, pound (although you need to be USAnian to pull that off), number, sharp, square, octothorpe.
I say hashtag. I've never heard an American call it a pound.Perhaps not in these days of Twitter, but when I lived there 20 years ago it was always "pound". As an old git, it has always been "hash" to me.
I say hashtag. I've never heard an American call it a pound.
Heirloom, by the by, is a specific botanical term (for varieties that out of common cultivation but maintained by gardeners, hence heirloom tomatoes).
Used to be "pound key" on phones.
I say hashtag. I've never heard an American call it a pound.Perhaps not in these days of Twitter, but when I lived there 20 years ago it was always "pound". As an old git, it has always been "hash" to me.
Male Toilets or Female Toilets :sick:
That assigns a sex to the toilets
Hash, pound (although you need to be USAnian to pull that off), number, sharp, square, octothorpe.
Anything but bloody hashtag.
It's worse than misuse of Asterix.
I'm never sure that the Disabled Toilet will work before I use it...
although, at a previous work place, a tech support guy was asked if he'd ever done any programming or had any experience in .net, "Oh yeah, I've dabbled in C-hash" :facepalm:
The name C# is pronounced “C Sharp”.
The name C# is written as the LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C (U+0043) followed by the NUMBER SIGN # (U+0023).
That assigns a sex to the toilets, when they are gender neutral. Gents' or Ladies' assigns the gender to those using them.
Describing a toilet (or pretty much anything) as accessible is surely making at least as many assumptions as genderizing* toilets. I mean, accessible to who?**
*It's a word now!
**No, I did not mean to write whom.
Vaguely imagining Dr. Who if he had decided to manifest the Tardis as an outdoor loo instead of a police box.
I think I saw a public loo configured as the Tardis somewhere on the interweb.
In the re-enacting world (and probably other places) portable chemical toilets are known as Turdises.I think I saw a public loo configured as the Tardis somewhere on the interweb.There's a company called Tardis Toilet Hire whose vans I see driving around from time to time.
I think I saw a public loo configured as the Tardis somewhere on the interweb.I have used one! At Warmley Waiting Room cafe on the Bristol-Bath Railway Path.
Pled.
It's probably American or something but it still makes me cringe.
Hence the Midrift Valley as the navel of the human race?Someone on that BookFace mentioned the navel battle of Jutland, which made it sound a lot more interesting than it was.
(http://legslarry.org.uk/BikeStull/coat_48.png)
Pled.
It's probably American or something but it still makes me cringe.
Yes, I keep cringing over this one too.
Pled.
It's probably American or something but it still makes me cringe.
Yes, I keep cringing over this one too.
I came across this for the first time recently. Our trainee moved into her criminal seat and used it when describing the events at court that day. I picked her up on it (I didn't know that it was even a word, anywhere, let alone possibly an acceptable alternative) but she assured me it was correct. I checked with our prosecutor who confirmed that it was acceptable.
although, at a previous work place, a tech support guy was asked if he'd ever done any programming or had any experience in .net, "Oh yeah, I've dabbled in C-hash" :facepalm:
:)
Most people learn technical computing stuff by reading though, so that sort of thing is a forgivable[1] mistake (at least for things you've only dabbled in). I mean, you get hashes all the time in programming languages, so you might not make the out-of-context connection to the musical pun on "C++".
Also, having looked it up, it's officially written "C#" not "C♯":Quote from: C# Language Specification, chapter 6The name C# is pronounced “C Sharp”.
The name C# is written as the LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C (U+0043) followed by the NUMBER SIGN # (U+0023).
...which is the sort of thing that Microsoft would think was a good idea.
[1] I mean, really, what's not to like about someone having learned a thing by reading?
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/quiz-you-know-what-teenage-713855
Toke, douche, IDK, pre. These are not exactly new words. Even if you're old enough to have a teenage child. Judging by the fact they've made this quiz, neither are peng, swole, but at least they're words you (well I) have only heard from a 2017 teenager.
Edit: Domestic teenager got one less than me, disagrees with the use of most he got right, in particular says "allow" is used in all three meanings. Points out that drinking and smoking slang is out of date cos drinking and smoking is out of date (but then he's only 13).
Seems I iz hep to their kooky teen lingo, but who is "Mike" Jagger?
Mike "Michael" Jagger is the unsung/unsinging genius behind the Carpenters.Seems I iz hep to their kooky teen lingo, but who is "Mike" Jagger?
A hoopy frood who knows where histdowel is?
By Wednesday lunchtime, the post had almost 25,000 thousand retweets, more than 52,000 likes, and a response from the manufacturer.
Mathematical 'grammar' on BBC News website:QuoteBy Wednesday lunchtime, the post had almost 25,000 thousand retweets, more than 52,000 likes, and a response from the manufacturer.
25 MILLION ReTweets? I think not!
Either that A went round B or that A put B into orbit. Not saying the latter's right, though.
It's like podiuming.So is that where very large men are employed to put successful female gymnasts on the podium??
Either that A went round B or that A put B into orbit. Not saying the latter's right, though.
Indeed. <grinds teeth>QuoteIt's like podiuming.So it that where very large men are employed to put successful female gymnasts on the podium??
Either that A went round B or that A put B into orbit. Not saying the latter's right, though.
Indeed. <grinds teeth>QuoteIt's like podiuming.So it that where very large men are employed to put successful female gymnasts on the podium??
There must be a technical word for doing such things to verbs. Arseholery?
Either that A went round B or that A put B into orbit. Not saying the latter's right, though.
Indeed. <grinds teeth>QuoteIt's like podiuming.So it that where very large men are employed to put successful female gymnasts on the podium??
There must be a technical word for doing such things to verbs. Arseholery?
'Verbing weirds language' was a frequent Sheddi phrase...
Anyway, I think this thrust to eliminate the passive is at the root of all the weirding
"These will appear via a number of mediums including site broadcasts, "
Interesting subtitles last night: joder (Spanish for fuck) translated as Jesus.
"On Christmas" as opposed to "at Christmas", seems to be leftpondian mainly but it grates.
Interesting subtitles last night: joder (Spanish for fuck) translated as Jesus.
Translation loses much.
...will commence to start...:o :facepalm: :hand:
Commence to begin starting?
(takes cover . . . )
Made myself cringe by writing "aversion for" or "aversion of" on YACF the other day, and now I can't find it to correct it. I was brain-dead after a late night out, yer honour.
They cook steaks for 25 to 30 minutes, minimum, and believe olive oil is 'for your ears.' They both have such an aversion of to garlic that frankly even a vampire would find extreme. Except in HP sauce.
My maternal grandmother was a lady's maid, so my mother inherited very clear ideas of what was "correct" and what wasn't. She would never have allowed a bottle of HP on the table, frowned at L&P and referred to the EPNS cutlery as "the silver". She was a dab hand at turning steak into kevlar before kevlar was invented. My dad once put her into terminal miff by asking for the last.
You've managed to quote ian writing "aversion of to," but that was some weeks ago.
Commence to begin starting?
(takes cover . . . )
going forward
I've a feeling we're past peak awesome, but that's maybe because I no longer work with the same set of awesome dudes that I worked with 5 years ago. I was sorrunded by it then and started, for my private amusement, to record each instance I heard. I decided to stop after this exchange:
- It's my nan's birthday next week
- Awesome!
I've a feeling we're past peak awesome, but that's maybe because I no longer work with the same set of awesome dudes that I worked with 5 years ago. I was sorrunded by it then and started, for my private amusement, to record each instance I heard. I decided to stop after this exchange:
- It's my nan's birthday next week
- Awesome!
The peak of the recent epidemic was back in 2003 according to Google's Ngrams (https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=awesome&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Cawesome%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Bawesome%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BAwesome%3B%2Cc0), but there was a bigger peak in 1989. Trouble is, it takes six months to develop a vaccine for the current strain and, since they use eggs to do so, vegans can't have it.
I pray to $Deity that I should never again have to hear someone use the term 'literally' when it literally is not, like literally, like relevant. In Estuary . . .
Sorry if we've like, literally done this before. Literally . . .
Languages like Spanish and French are fine with using a masculine plural to simply call the whole lot ‘nephews’ (sobrinos and neveux, respectively) – although some people are calling for a rethink of this approach at the moment. At one time, this might have been acceptable in English, too, but try it now and you’re likely to experience a fair amount of outrage from your little niece Trixabelle.https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2018/01/22/nibling-nieces-nephews-collective-term/
There have been a couple of suggestions to fill this gap, but they haven’t made it into the dictionary yet. ‘Niblings’ appears to be the most popular, like siblings with an ‘n’ for nieces and nephews. Several people claim to have invented this word, but it appears to have been first used by a linguist named Samuel E. Martin in 1951. A few fans use the term – I actually heard somebody mention their niblings last Christmas.
Personally, though, I find it a bit odd. Your nephews and nieces aren’t really comparable to your siblings (even if they look like them). They’re a different generation, for one thing. So ‘niblings’ doesn’t feel like a good fit to me.
Take the hilly city of Seattle, where several neighbourhoods have no pavements at all, and many streets have a slope grade (or tilt) of 10% or even 20%.Alternatively, they have an incline, pitch or gradient. Maybe the writer is paid, remunerated or salaried by the word?
There are no automatic promotion boards, by enlarge it’s an annual occurrence that by the end of the...
And some of us, contorted into a spatial dimension where things are mostly confusionwards, don't know left and right.
And some of us, contorted into a spatial dimension where things are mostly confusionwards, don't know left and right.
Fair point. My wife's trick is to hold her hands out in front of her, palms facing down, fingers pointing forwards, thumbs pointing towards each other. The hand that makes an L shape is the left, the one that makes a backwards L shape is not the left. If I'm ever giving her directions, I don't say "turn right" or "turn left", I say "turn your side" or "turn my side".
Yes, it has.
And some of us, contorted into a spatial dimension where things are mostly confusionwards, don't know left and right. I have no idea unless I'm writing and I check which hand (and I spent a good portion of my life unsure why hand to use – right is less smudgy – even if, according to my handwriting, it belongs to a girl, and if it does, she's not having it back, and for those of you at the back thinking of such matters, please stop it, she's not that kind of girl).
Inside is right. Or left. Oh fuck.
I saw a good version of that sticker on a lorry the other day. Instead of instructing anyone to do anything, it said "Beware, blind spot".I've seen "If you can't see my mirror, I can't see you". Now, whether or not the driver will look into the mirror ...
I've seen "If you can't see my mirror, I can't see you". Now, whether or not the driver will look into the mirror ...The pedant in me always wants to change that to, "If you can't see my mirror, I can't see your eyes".
Every lexicographer I spoke to made clear their distaste for “word-lovers”, who in the dictionary world are regarded as the type of person liable to scrawl “fewer” on to supermarket signs reading “10 items or less”, or recite “antidisestablishmentarianism” to anyone who will listen.:thumbsup:
That sign you often see on the back of lorries:
"CYCLISTS! Do not pass this vehicle on the inside."
Well, I wouldn't even try to do that - not while the doors are closed.
Has the traditional term "nearside" fallen entirely out of currency?
Or, even better:
"CYCLISTS! Do not pass this vehicle on the left."
I've seen "If you can't see my mirror, I can't see you". Now, whether or not the driver will look into the mirror ...The pedant in me always wants to change that to, "If you can't see my mirror, I can't see your eyes".
:thumbsup:I've seen "If you can't see my mirror, I can't see you". Now, whether or not the driver will look into the mirror ...The pedant in me always wants to change that to, "If you can't see my mirror, I can't see your eyes".
"If you can't see my eyes in my mirror you can't know I can see you"
Tip for Ian et al; "Left" is the side of the road that Brits drive on - that's how to remember it. HTH!
AIUI nearside and offside came from horses, referring to the side from which it's traditional to mount and dismount, and not do anything like that, respectively. But there's bound to be someone who finds it easier to get on a horse from the right; does that make their nearside everyone else's offside and vice versa?
Probably!AIUI nearside and offside came from horses, referring to the side from which it's traditional to mount and dismount, and not do anything like that, respectively. But there's bound to be someone who finds it easier to get on a horse from the right; does that make their nearside everyone else's offside and vice versa?
I'm guessing that story has the same dubious origins as the one about why we drive on the left, which is supposedly something to do with the side you mount your sword while riding on horseback. Snopes probably has a view on the matter but ICBA to look it up.
nearside noun the side of a vehicle, horse or team of horses nearer the kerb, ie in the UK the left side, and in most other countries the right side. Also as adj • the nearside front tyre.http://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=nearside&title=21st
The bigger question is which side of the road should you drive your herd of pedigree Dexters?
But everyone knows that the Romans, who brought us civilization, rule of law, democracy and liberty, as well as roads, drove on the left, whereas driving on the right was invented by the evil, despotic Napoleon and spread in the 20th century by Hitler and Stalin. This makes driving on the right not only a FOREIGN habit but a sinister one.
Oh hang on that's not quite right.
I find your question somewhat gauche.The bigger question is which side of the road should you drive your herd of pedigree Dexters?
But everyone knows that the Romans, who brought us civilization, rule of law, democracy and liberty, as well as roads, drove on the left, whereas driving on the right was invented by the evil, despotic Napoleon and spread in the 20th century by Hitler and Stalin. This makes driving on the right not only a FOREIGN habit but a sinister one.
Oh hang on that's not quite right.
I find your question somewhat gauche.The bigger question is which side of the road should you drive your herd of pedigree Dexters?
But everyone knows that the Romans, who brought us civilization, rule of law, democracy and liberty, as well as roads, drove on the left, whereas driving on the right was invented by the evil, despotic Napoleon and spread in the 20th century by Hitler and Stalin. This makes driving on the right not only a FOREIGN habit but a sinister one.
Oh hang on that's not quite right.
Adroitly put.I find your question somewhat gauche.The bigger question is which side of the road should you drive your herd of pedigree Dexters?
But everyone knows that the Romans, who brought us civilization, rule of law, democracy and liberty, as well as roads, drove on the left, whereas driving on the right was invented by the evil, despotic Napoleon and spread in the 20th century by Hitler and Stalin. This makes driving on the right not only a FOREIGN habit but a sinister one.
Oh hang on that's not quite right.
I suspect sinister intentions.
When did 'straightaway' become a single word?
At a conference on noise organised by the European commission in April 2017, noise was regarded as “the silent killer”, with potentially severe consequences for our physical and mental health.
'I'll go on,' Hypolita said. 'Life's too short to walk so slow.'That's 1915 and British. Clearly not such a recent phenomenon.
"Ant and Dec helm not one but three of their very biggest shows, around which so much of ITV's schedule is built."
Back to adjectives as adverbs and the origins or at least age of the usage:Quote'I'll go on,' Hypolita said. 'Life's too short to walk so slow.'That's 1915 and British. Clearly not such a recent phenomenon.
How absolutely with it!Back to adjectives as adverbs and the origins or at least age of the usage:Quote'I'll go on,' Hypolita said. 'Life's too short to walk so slow.'That's 1915 and British. Clearly not such a recent phenomenon.
Chambers gives both slow and slowly as adverbs.
Slow(ly) advv: In spite of the encroachments of -ly, slow maintains itself as at least an idiomatic possibility...
The fatberg autopsy also uncovered evidence of Britons’ contact with street and pharmaceutical drugs, including small plastic “baggies”, a needle and syringe, as well as a high proportion of chemicals found in tropical creams for acne and paracetamol.
I wonder if they didn't mean topical. If acne is limited to the tropics, Belfast was a lot further south when I was a spotty youff.This is explained by the growth of monarchical unionism. It's king kongtinental drift.
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TheAmericanBritish treatment of collective nouns. To use a Wold Cup example:
US: England is playing Sweden on Saturday.
UK: England are playing Sweden on Saturday.Any yes I know that theBritish English usage issomewhat inconsistentwrongbutand the American usagestill gratesis correct.
The American treatment of collective nouns. To use a Wold Cup example:
US: England is playing Sweden on Saturday.
UK: England are playing Sweden on Saturday.
Any yes I know that the British English usage is somewhat inconsistent but the American usage still grates.
Why not? The Beeb is hardly an authority these days.
...
Why not? The Beeb is hardly an authority these days.
One that pissed me off, but I can't remember whether it was Beeb or Graun, was a comment about a player giving away a free kick in the WC* for nearly hitting something with "their" boot. If it's an all-male team, why not use "his"? Twats.
* splosh
The fact that it works on more than one tooth is grammatically immaterial.
The fact that it works on more than one tooth is grammatically immaterial.
I think this is one of those instances where practice trumps grammar - no one uses such products for the whitening of a single tooth, do they?
Anyway, that reasoning demonstrates that adjectival/adverbial nouns are not understood.
It may, of course, be students' housing.
It may, of course, be students' housing.
Aye, but that's a possessive, a completely different form.
Without context we don't know whether it's students' housing, student's housing or students housing (ie subject verb, "students housing animals are in breach of university rules").
They never, ever, ever take plurals.
There's dispute over the technical term for such juxtapositions of nouns. Some say adjectival noun, some noun adjunct, some noun modifier. I'll call them attributive nouns, in keeping with most dictionaries (you've probably noticed those entries that start "often attrib").Perhaps we've started off with what people call a category error; T42 is correct that English adjectives don't take plurals, but these are not adjectives. They're still nouns, albeit used in conjunction with other nouns.
T42 is correct that English adjectives don't take plurals, but these are not adjectives. They're still nouns, albeit used in conjunction with other nouns.
They never, ever, ever take plurals.
Here's an interesting piece on the subject that debunks that notion:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2012/jul/05/mind-your-language-nouns
While there are many of these phrases that use plural adjuncts, I also thought of one that uses the singular form of a noun that is never normally used in the singular:
Trouser press
Not a phrase I've ever given much thought to before but now that I am thinking about it, it looks really odd.
On the matter of tooth-whitening vs teeth-whitening, you could refer to the precedent set by toothbrush, of course.
The Victorian parts of Indian cities have streets with names like Eighty Feet Road and Hundred Feet Road (referring to the width of the road). It sounds wrong and I assumed it was an Indian-ism, but no, it turns out to have been Victorian practice to use a plural in those circumstances. The lesson here could be not to trust engineers with words.
Also, scissor sharpener.
TeeVee's Ned Boulting – "mitigate" and "militate" are not the same word. I think you mean almost exactly the opposite of what you are saying.
knicker elasticAlso, scissor sharpener.
OK, ok, I bow; but both trousers and scissors are special cases in that the singular form is an oddity.
knicker elasticAlso, scissor sharpener.
OK, ok, I bow; but both trousers and scissors are special cases in that the singular form is an oddity.
But they don't all singularize in compounds. Someone who darns tights (I'm informed this was a genuine paid occupation in bygone days) would, I think, be a tights darner rather than a tight darner. Though it's always possible to have a tight tights darner.
The Victorian parts of Indian cities have streets with names like Eighty Feet Road and Hundred Feet Road (referring to the width of the road). It sounds wrong and I assumed it was an Indian-ism, but no, it turns out to have been Victorian practice to use a plural in those circumstances. The lesson here could be not to trust engineers with words.
Round here, the opposite seems to apply, Sixteen Foot Bank, Ten Mile Bank etc
Is malaria plural? I thought it was literally 'bad air', from the Italian, for which the plural form would be arie rather than arias.
Pox is plural too. Apparently, the singular form 'pock' predates it - I used to think it was a more recent back-formation.
I read soemwhere that malaria had a similar origin as the french from a bastardisation of mal = bad, aria = air, thought to be contracted from breathing the rank air of marshes
I read soemwhere that malaria had a similar origin as the french from a bastardisation of mal = bad, aria = air, thought to be contracted from breathing the rank air of marshes
If you consider French to be a bastardisation of Italian, then yes, that's exactly right. ;)
Mal = bad = French, non?
Auntie, surely a mural is, by definition on a wall and does not need to be described as a 'wall mural'?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45054525/a-look-at-the-uk-s-largest-wall-mural (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45054525/a-look-at-the-uk-s-largest-wall-mural)
I'd always thought that the omnipresent 'for sure' and 'super' (used as a go-to intensifying adjective - 'super-nice'/'super-hard'/'super-full-gas') was something so habitual with (non-British) European pro cyclists that their British counterparts have just absorbed it through proximity.
Auntie, surely a mural is, by definition on a wall and does not need to be described as a 'wall mural'?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45054525/a-look-at-the-uk-s-largest-wall-mural (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45054525/a-look-at-the-uk-s-largest-wall-mural)
Ooh, that one really does make me cringe. Although the internet reckons a mural can also be on a ceiling or 'any other permanent surface'.
The internet is an idiot.
Yebbut what do you call a mural on the ceiling?
...Is a 'super' tsunami, linguistically speaking, on its way?
I didn't think 'super nice' etc was anything to do with cycling or cyclists, but a general and recent Americanism.
I'd always thought that the omnipresent 'for sure' and 'super' (used as a go-to intensifying adjective - 'super-nice'/'super-hard'/'super-full-gas') was something so habitual with (non-British) European pro cyclists that their British counterparts have just absorbed it through proximity.
Yebbut what do you call a mural on the ceiling?
Weirdly I rarely hear Germans saying "super". Occasionally "supi!" which is a slang version. Maybe the "super" time has now passed them by and the rest of Europe is catching up.
You hear it a lot in Polish, even though/because it ignores normal grammatical rules (ie it doesn't agree with nouns). But did it really become trendy in English from German?
I got an error message on an internal system today which read;
The data's are not valid.
Auntie, surely a mural is, by definition on a wall and does not need to be described as a 'wall mural'?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45054525/a-look-at-the-uk-s-largest-wall-mural (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45054525/a-look-at-the-uk-s-largest-wall-mural)
Ooh, that one really does make me cringe. Although the internet reckons a mural can also be on a ceiling or 'any other permanent surface'.
The internet is an idiot.
Thanks. I was hoping someone would....Is a 'super' tsunami, linguistically speaking, on its way?
For sure.
Incidentally, in the 70s I learnt that it was very ill-bred to say "hallo"; now it seems to be the standard casual greeting, at least in the Rheinpfalz.hallo is what you say to people you pass walking on the street, to colleagues etc, here in NRW. It’s the most common greeting.
I didn't think 'super nice' etc was anything to do with cycling or cyclists, but a general and recent Americanism. Whatever its origins, it fits in with the British (and elsewhere?) trend over the last ten years (or more?) to use superlatives and intense adjectives in all situations. Nothing is 'nice' or 'good' it's 'amazing' or 'incredible'.
I got an error message on an internal system today which read;
The data's are not valid.
That is multiply cringeworthy!
Meanwhile, in other news, The Beeb newsreader said the police were 'treating the fire as supected arson'. FFS!
Ooh, that one really does make me cringe. Although the internet reckons a mural can also be on a ceiling or 'any other permanent surface'.
The internet is an idiot.
I got an error message on an internal system today which read;
The data's are not valid.
That is multiply cringeworthy!
I know - I was almost impressed at how bad it was!
We heard a lot of "hallo"s on HBK last week, so I started using it myself ::-)Incidentally, in the 70s I learnt that it was very ill-bred to say "hallo"; now it seems to be the standard casual greeting, at least in the Rheinpfalz.hallo is what you say to people you pass walking on the street, to colleagues etc, here in NRW. It’s the most common greeting.
Whereas here in the UK in my lifetime the standard casual greeting has shifted from (close variations) of "hallo" to "hi".Incidentally, in the 70s I learnt that it was very ill-bred to say "hallo"; now it seems to be the standard casual greeting, at least in the Rheinpfalz.hallo is what you say to people you pass walking on the street, to colleagues etc, here in NRW. It’s the most common greeting.
I have bullhorns on my fixie, which's brake levers are on the tops, reachable in most positions."
"QuoteI have bullhorns on my fixie, which's brake levers are on the tops, reachable in most positions."
Well, such an abomination would never pass my lips, nor I doubt would Her Maj approve.
I still don't know when to use a semi colon.
It's like spellin, innit? If you can't confidently spell a word (or you're unsure of its meaning), it's generally better to use a different word.I still don't know when to use a semi colon.
The simple answer is never.
There are very few instances of semicolon use where a full stop or comma wouldn’t work just as well.
I still don't know when to use a semi colon.
The simple answer is never.
There are very few instances of semicolon use where a full stop or comma wouldn’t work just as well.
@Jacob_Rees_Mogg
Trust in politics will evaporate if Brexit were not delivered.
Quote@Jacob_Rees_Mogg
Trust in politics will evaporate if Brexit were not delivered.
Limiting your answer to the grammatical rather than political, this is bad isn't it? Is he aiming at the subjunctive, and missing?
Limiting your answer to the grammatical rather than political, this is bad isn't it? Is he aiming at the subjunctive, and missing?
Swapping OUT
Kentucky State Police confirmed to WYMT the child has died from their injuries.
We still do not know the gender of the victim.Which makes that a bit less cringey, though the ambiguity is still there. I guess they thought 'the child has died from its injuries' was too impersonal.
* Pandas & all that, right?
This probably isn't the best place to be defending misplaced apostrophes. Good luck though :thumbsup:* Pandas & all that, right?
That's the one - the woman who normalised being an arse about misplaced apostrophes.
Funny things, apostrophes. I have a 17th-century book in which his is used instead, e.g. drawings are labelled King George hif Baftion etc. I've head that that arose from a mifunderftanding of apoftrophes.Or possibly that the use of apostrophes for possessives grew out of the way they used to put the 'his' in, but compressed it to just the 's' when speaking.
Funny things, apostrophes. I have a 17th-century book in which his is used instead, e.g. drawings are labelled King George hif Baftion etc. I've head that that arose from a mifunderftanding of apoftrophes.Or possibly that the use of apostrophes for possessives grew out of the way they used to put the 'his' in, but compressed it to just the 's' when speaking.
[[Off topic -- is there a standard unicode or whatever for the long 's' character T42 has represented by 'f' in his quote?]]
Funny things, apostrophes. I have a 17th-century book in which his is used instead, e.g. drawings are labelled King George hif Baftion etc. I've head that that arose from a mifunderftanding of apoftrophes.Or possibly that the use of apostrophes for possessives grew out of the way they used to put the 'his' in, but compressed it to just the 's' when speaking.
[[Off topic -- is there a standard unicode or whatever for the long 's' character T42 has represented by 'f' in his quote?]]
Long S - modern usage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s#Modern_usage)
Another survival of the long s was the abbreviation used in British English for shilling, as in 7 ∕ 6 "seven shillings and sixpence," where the shilling mark " ∕ " stands in for the long s, an abbreviation for the Latin solidus.[26] In the same way, the "d" in "7s. 6d." abbreviates the Latin denarius.That's something I've learned today. I'd assumed it was just a conventional divider, like a colon or whatever.
QuoteAnother survival of the long s was the abbreviation used in British English for shilling, as in 7 ∕ 6 "seven shillings and sixpence," where the shilling mark " ∕ " stands in for the long s, an abbreviation for the Latin solidus.[26] In the same way, the "d" in "7s. 6d." abbreviates the Latin denarius.That's something I've learned today. I'd assumed it was just a conventional divider, like a colon or whatever.
Solidus is the formal name of the forward slash.
*Actually, don't bother. My give-a-shit-o-meter's packed up...
"It was so fun" and all variation thereof.
Fun is a noun not an adjective.
"It was so fun" and all variation thereof.
Fun is a noun not an adjective.
Go fun yourself. ;)
The brain-dead Graun has taken to only putting capitals on the first letters of acronyms. Skimming an article about temperatures in Oz this morning to see if a chum was getting fried, I was wondering what the Bom was (Under the Bom, under the Boo?) until I remembered their idiot propensity and "Bureau of Meteorology" went ding.
I'm not sure it's a particularly British thing. It might just be Guardian house style. Given the context T42 mentions, it might even be an Australian habit.
The brain-dead Graun has taken to only putting capitals on the first letters of acronyms. Skimming an article about temperatures in Oz this morning to see if a chum was getting fried, I was wondering what the Bom was (Under the Bom, under the Boo?) until I remembered their idiot propensity and "Bureau of Meteorology" went ding.
I assumed that was a British thing. Seeing NASA written Nasa drives me up the wall.
As custodian of the style guide, I would always rather go against my own style rules than print something that readers won’t understand.Far too sensible.
As custodian of the style guide, I would always rather go against my own style rules than print something that readers won’t understand.Far too sensible.
We form other words from them, like, erm, gaydar.and frickin'-laser...
Note however that consistency doesn’t mean applying style rules with stubbornly pedantic rigidity.
We form other words from them, like, erm, gaydar.and frickin'-laser...
That said, carry on, this thread is always the purest and most delectable source of wrongolium.
We form other words from them, like, erm, gaydar.and frickin'-laser...
But not gayser, which is a shame - I’m imagining this to be some kind of superpower where you turn someone into a big old homo by firing rays out of your eyes at them.
I thought it would be something to do with high pressure superheated steam shooting out of orifices.We form other words from them, like, erm, gaydar.and frickin'-laser...
But not gayser, which is a shame - I’m imagining this to be some kind of superpower where you turn someone into a big old homo by firing rays out of your eyes at them.
We form other words from them, like, erm, gaydar.and frickin'-laser...
But not gayser, which is a shame - I’m imagining this to be some kind of superpower where you turn someone into a big old homo by firing rays out of your eyes at them.
With a a significant working class and industrial legacy that has left its traces on the cityscape in the lace-market, the extensive network of caves that run under the city, the canal, and derelict industrial-era mill buildings, it is also.What makes this particularly striking is that it's not buried in the middle of other text, it's the second sentence. From the Graudnia, obviously.
The phenomenon has nothing to do with radiation, but refers to the way heat "radiates" from the Earth meaning the air can hold less moisture, so it turns to fog.
The situation has parallels with the US-China trade dispute last year, when US ships raced across the world to deliver soybeans before Beijing could impose tariffs on them. Some boats were stuck in harbours after failing to miss the deadline.Failing to miss? :facepalm:
They also let us collect this information remotely, so we’ll no longer need to ask you for meter reads.
...
I can hear my English teacher, "What the person is saying is that they "obviously" don't have a wide enough vocabulary to express themselves".
...
As for the obligatory prefix filler "so" which I mentioned on this thread many years ago, it has now reached truly epidemic proportions...
I did a presentation skillz thing some time back – they had you learn and present a passage without any filler words or circumlocutions while they videoed it.... and even if
The result (and it's very difficult to do) of speaking with unadulterated precision is that you come across as rude and arrogant, and it's very offputting to anyone listening. It's also difficult to follow because we need those spaces to catch up and digest what's being said. Fillers and similar serve a vital purpose in both spoken and written communication. They're only generational in the terms used, they're a consistent component of how we communicate.
The idea that they're somehow a mask for inadequate vocabulary or lack of intelligence is nonsense.
I'm not quite there yet. Thinking about it, my level of irritation might correlate closely with my general level of irritation with the person doing the speaking. So (!) I'm quite OK with it if the speaker's a tidy boy, like.As for the obligatory prefix filler "so" which I mentioned on this thread many years ago, it has now reached truly epidemic proportions...I used to find that irritating but I've come to terms with it now.
Spoken language is different from written language, obviously. If you read the unedited transcript of a speech or interview word for word, even a scripted one, it looks very messy due to all the fillers, repetitions and hesitations. Dialogue in a novel, for instance, is more akin to a script than the actual spoken words. You wouldn't want to read it otherwise.
It's certainly different. Taking words as spoken and making them nicely readable can be tricky. But I do it because people pay me (sometimes!). Legal verbatim is in some ways easier because if it doesn't make sense, you don't have to make sense of it.Spoken language is different from written language, obviously. If you read the unedited transcript of a speech or interview word for word, even a scripted one, it looks very messy due to all the fillers, repetitions and hesitations. Dialogue in a novel, for instance, is more akin to a script than the actual spoken words. You wouldn't want to read it otherwise.
Writing is done differently, but we still space, fill, and circumlocute – those are core components of a writer's style, of course.
Prefixes like 'so' are often spoken or written cues that a new statement is about to be introduced, they're attention grabbers.
Pootling around the EDF website* I stumbled across this:
[QuoteThey also let us collect this information remotely, so we’ll no longer need to ask you for meter reads.
WTF is a "meter read"?
As for the obligatory prefix filler "so" which I mentioned on this thread many years ago, it has now reached truly epidemic proportions and is "so" widespread as to rival the ghastly "like" of yoof-speak. Indeed it's actually being used in written form - a post here the other day (no names mentioned) started, "So... ".
I'm not quite there yet......As for the obligatory prefix filler "so" which I mentioned on this thread many years ago, it has now reached truly epidemic proportions...I used to find that irritating but I've come to terms with it now.
As in "do a big shop" versus "put the shopping in the cupboard".Pootling around the EDF website* I stumbled across this:
[QuoteThey also let us collect this information remotely, so we’ll no longer need to ask you for meter reads.
WTF is a "meter read"?
The act of reading a meter, as distinct from the data obtained by doing so (a "meter reading")?
Maybe I've spent too long fettling computers, where you might reasonably talk about "disk reads" or "memory reads". I certainly wouldn't object to, say, "meter reads per second" when technically discussing the network overheads of polling smart meters for their data, but it seems wrong in a customer-facing context like that.
Possibly written by a non-Brit?
We'll no longer need to ask you for meter reads.There is no longer such a job as a meter technician. Smart meters have made them redundant.
... for meter readings.
... to read the meter.
There might be a technical difference between these but nothing that a customer as opposed to a meter technician (if there is such a job) could be expected to know about.
As for the obligatory prefix filler "so" which I mentioned on this thread many years ago, it has now reached truly epidemic proportions and is "so" widespread as to rival the ghastly "like" of yoof-speak. Indeed it's actually being used in written form - a post here the other day (no names mentioned) started, "So... ".
"Produce" as used Transpondially to mean vegetables. "He was so bad they were throwing produce at him".
There might be a technical difference between these but nothing that a customer as opposed to a meter technician (if there is such a job) could be expected to know about.There is no longer such a job as a meter technician. Smart meters have made them redundant.
As for the obligatory prefix filler "so" which I mentioned on this thread many years ago, it has now reached truly epidemic proportions and is "so" widespread as to rival the ghastly "like" of yoof-speak. Indeed it's actually being used in written form - a post here the other day (no names mentioned) started, "So... ".
Sadly Professor Larrington was guilty of this when she had a series on R4 a couple of years ago. I shall take her to task on it if further media tartery is in the pipeline.
"Produce" as used Transpondially to mean vegetables. "He was so bad they were throwing produce at him".
Lovely meter, meter read, nothing can come between us.Took her out and tried to win her...
"Produce" as used Transpondially to mean vegetables. "He was so bad they were throwing produce at him".
Not just Transpondially I suggest. I'm from the Lincolnshire Fens and there are very many agricultural businesses in that part of the world known as 'Produce Merchants'. They grow, or trade in veg, mainly cabbage, Brussels and caulis.
As for the obligatory prefix filler "so" which I mentioned on this thread many years ago, it has now reached truly epidemic proportions and is "so" widespread as to rival the ghastly "like" of yoof-speak. Indeed it's actually being used in written form - a post here the other day (no names mentioned) started, "So... ".
Sadly Professor Larrington was guilty of this when she had a series on R4 a couple of years ago. I shall take her to task on it if further media tartery is in the pipeline.
So. The Spear-Danes in days gone by
and the kings who ruled them had courage and greatness.
We have heard of those princes’ heroic campaigns.
Elders, as in elders of a community. It's quite a common word, isn't it? Is there any reason someone wouldn't know it? Specifically someone from Ireland. Maybe it's not used in Ireland? Would welcome comments from Irish persons.
"Produce" as used Transpondially to mean vegetables. "He was so bad they were throwing produce at him".
Not just Transpondially I suggest. I'm from the Lincolnshire Fens and there are very many agricultural businesses in that part of the world known as 'Produce Merchants'. They grow, or trade in veg, mainly cabbage, Brussels and caulis.
It's certainly a common word on the sides of lorries and vans coming and going from New Covent Garden which would suggest that's it's not very American at all. They only just built the US Embassy there, after all.
The context wasn't Mormon (East African in fact) and the religious aspect was implicit rather than explicit but that sounds about right.Elders, as in elders of a community. It's quite a common word, isn't it? Is there any reason someone wouldn't know it? Specifically someone from Ireland. Maybe it's not used in Ireland? Would welcome comments from Irish persons.
I'm not Irish, but my general association would be religious, and originating in USania as in Mormon Elders, perhaps because I occasionally see them on trains from Ely, out on their missions.
"Produce" as used Transpondially to mean vegetables. "He was so bad they were throwing produce at him".Our village flower show is officially known as the 'Flower and Produce Show' and has been for years. Knowing some of the past organisers (now all in their 80s) I doubt transpondia as an influence. Possibly another example of Americans continuing to use words which we consider obsolete, but no more than that.
"Produce" as used Transpondially to mean vegetables. "He was so bad they were throwing produce at him".Our village flower show is officially known as the 'Flower and Produce Show' and has been for years. Knowing some of the past organisers (now all in their 80s) I doubt transpondia as an influence. Possibly another example of Americans continuing to use words which we consider obsolete, but no more than that.
Am I right in thinking that one meaning of 'products' is 'stuff you put in your hair'?
eg
- Do you use products?
- Yes, but just brylcreem
Our village flower show is officially known as the 'Flower and Produce Show' and has been for years.
Going back to "elders", it certainly can have a religious connotation but it should be familiar to most surely as in "Respect your elders and betters" which is a flowery way of saying, "me".So (see what I did there?) elders and betters aren't those old fellas coming out of the bookies then?
:hand: ::-) ;D ;D ;DGoing back to "elders", it certainly can have a religious connotation but it should be familiar to most surely as in "Respect your elders and betters" which is a flowery way of saying, "me".So (see what I did there?) elders and betters aren't those old fellas coming out of the bookies then?
Months' means "belonging to the month" doesn't it?
The plural of month is months, isn't it? Not months'? Months' means "belonging to the month" doesn't it? Please? Tell me I'm not going mad...
The plural of month is months, isn't it? Not months'? Months' means "belonging to the month" doesn't it? Please? Tell me I'm not going mad...
Plural of month is months.
One month's earnings is what you'll receive for working in February.
Three months' earnings is what you'll get for March, April and May combined.
HTH & HAND.
"I joined the gym last week. I've had my first session and been induced on all the machines."
This inevitably led to crap jokes about having a kid called Jim.
???"I joined the gym last week. I've had my first session and been induced on all the machines."
This inevitably led to crap jokes about having a kid called Jim.
Or calling them Eddy...
???"I joined the gym last week. I've had my first session and been induced on all the machines."
This inevitably led to crap jokes about having a kid called Jim.
Or calling them Eddy...
- Eddies in the spacetime continuum.
- Is he?
[one of my favourite Douglas Adams silly jokes]
I think Adams would have written it around 1980-ish?? Doesn't that predate PTerry? (my memory is pretty poor on both TBH!)- Eddies in the spacetime continuum.
- Is he?
[one of my favourite Douglas Adams silly jokes]
Isn't that a Terry Pratchett's joke? :)
Recreator - one who is engaged in the act of recreation.Not recreationalist ?
Recreator - one who is engaged in the act of recreation.Not recreationalist ?
Definitely adverbiage (sorry, couldn't resist).
"It covers a wide variety of everything" has just made me smile.
And secondly, based on your interaction with the rating agencies and, clearly, they, obviously, give you the benefit in terms of [...]This takes love of commas into a slavish obsession.
"Store" is a noun, but are you actually saying that both words of "in store" form part of the noun, rather than a preposition and a noun?Definitely adverbiage (sorry, couldn't resist).
Yep. And in fact, I realise now that I didn't read the editor's reply properly (I glossed over it, not really wanting to get involved in fatuous grammar arguments) and what she actually said was that in this context, "in store" is a noun, which is definitely very wrong indeed.
The grammar is so ingrained that sometimes when I actually stop to think of why something is right or wrong, it doesn't always come straight away. I look at "Save £110 in store" and know instinctively that it doesn't need a hyphen but I have to admit it needed a good deal of thought as to why. However, once I twigged that it's an adverb, it all became clear.
ETA I like this: http://www.grammarunderground.com/should-you-hyphenate-compound-adverbs.html
ETA I like this: http://www.grammarunderground.com/should-you-hyphenate-compound-adverbs.html
"Store" is a noun, but are you actually saying that both words of "in store" form part of the noun, rather than a preposition and a noun?
But "Save in store" means "Save in the store". No-one would say "get in car" or "put this in box".
It does rather look as if whomever made the decision watched Rain Main on Netflix, or something, and thought oo-er, we’d better find out if some of these scary people are out and about on the roads.https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/autism-dvla-driving-jess-phillips-a8807096.html
As a company, *** Tankers can essentially go three ways: it can go up, it can go sideways, it can go down.
Today I have a question for this thread!
In the phrase "our anti money laundering systems" where would you place hyphens?
anti-money-laundering systems
anti-money laundering systems
anti money-laundering systems
anti-moneylaundering systems
They all look a bit wrong to me (including leaving them all out).
If 2008 taught us anything, it's that anti-money is every bit as real as normal money. Not sure how you launder it, thobut.With an anti-washing machine, otherwise known as COR.
Anti-money? Shouldn't that be kept away from its opposite?
If Star Trek taught us anything . . .
Not to be confused with antimony-laundering systems, of course.
I'd go with "anti-money laundering systems" for pretty much the reasons helly states.
I'd go with 'systems to prevent money laundering' and disavow the hyphenation.
That would be great but alas AML is the standard acronym.Not to be confused with antimony-laundering systems, of course.
I'd go with "anti-money laundering systems" for pretty much the reasons helly states.
Yes, but that looks like someone is laundering 'anti-money' which is a thing in my wallet that annihilates real money while I stand in the pub.
I'd go with 'systems to prevent money laundering' and disavow the hyphenation.
I'd go with 'systems to prevent money laundering' and disavow the hyphenation.
Funnily enough, that's exactly what I was going to say but I changed my mind and went with the crap antimony-laundering gag instead.
Beeb: "Viral food hack shows we've been eating pineapple wrong this entire time." Wrongly or the wrong way, please.
Don't worry, people will soon start spewing bile...I'm an anti bile-spewing person.
Your internal controls effectively monitor and manage your firm’s compliance with anti-money-laundering (AML) policies and procedures.and
We also require that firms:
give overall responsibility for anti money-laundering systems and controls to a director or senior manager.
Beeb: "Viral food hack shows we've been eating pineapple wrong this entire time." Wrongly or the wrong way, please.
Wrong is generally accepted as an adverb these days.
And thereby hangs a tale.
Beeb: "Viral food hack shows we've been eating pineapple wrong this entire time." Wrongly or the wrong way, please.
Wrong is generally accepted as an adverb these days.
Beeb: "Viral food hack shows we've been eating pineapple wrong this entire time." Wrongly or the wrong way, please.
Wrong is generally accepted as an adverb these days.
It's still bloody inelegant.
Yeah, I'll go with that.Beeb: "Viral food hack shows we've been eating pineapple wrong this entire time." Wrongly or the wrong way, please.
Wrong is generally accepted as an adverb these days.
It's still bloody inelegant.
Flashbacks to having "-ly!" shouted at me by parents, in that tone usually used for pulling you up for dropping 't's.
It's one of those things I'll do in speech and informal[1] text, but not in writing.
<snip>
That seems like a rule that would make the world a better place.
That would be great but alas AML is the standard acronym.Not to be confused with antimony-laundering systems, of course.
I'd go with "anti-money laundering systems" for pretty much the reasons helly states.
Yes, but that looks like someone is laundering 'anti-money' which is a thing in my wallet that annihilates real money while I stand in the pub.
I'd go with 'systems to prevent money laundering' and disavow the hyphenation.
That seems like a rule that would make the world a better place.
Behave!
That would be great but alas AML is the standard acronym.Not to be confused with antimony-laundering systems, of course.
I'd go with "anti-money laundering systems" for pretty much the reasons helly states.
Yes, but that looks like someone is laundering 'anti-money' which is a thing in my wallet that annihilates real money while I stand in the pub.
I'd go with 'systems to prevent money laundering' and disavow the hyphenation.
AML is, as any fule kno, the standard abbreviation for Aston Martin-Lagonda.
If I bought one of those, it would definitely be an Anti Money-Lagonda.That would be great but alas AML is the standard acronym.Not to be confused with antimony-laundering systems, of course.
I'd go with "anti-money laundering systems" for pretty much the reasons helly states.
Yes, but that looks like someone is laundering 'anti-money' which is a thing in my wallet that annihilates real money while I stand in the pub.
I'd go with 'systems to prevent money laundering' and disavow the hyphenation.
AML is, as any fule kno, the standard abbreviation for Aston Martin-Lagonda.
Legend has it that when The Supremes were presented with the lyricYeah, I'll go with that.Beeb: "Viral food hack shows we've been eating pineapple wrong this entire time." Wrongly or the wrong way, please.
Wrong is generally accepted as an adverb these days.
It's still bloody inelegant.
Flashbacks to having "-ly!" shouted at me by parents, in that tone usually used for pulling you up for dropping 't's.
It's one of those things I'll do in speech and informal[1] text, but not in writing.
<snip>
I think of "wrong" as being a shortening of "wrongly" in this context.
Perhaps it should have an apostrophe to represent the missing letters? That seems like a rule that would make the world a better place.
To which my son once replied "I am being have!" (To rhyme with wave.) He was about 3, I think.
You will often find ourselves "filtering" whilst on cycle patrol, motorcycle patrol or on #OpClosePass with no harm to ourselves or other road users.West Midlands police.
QuoteYou will often find ourselves "filtering" whilst on cycle patrol, motorcycle patrol or on #OpClosePass with no harm to ourselves or other road users.West Midlands police.
QuoteYou will often find ourselves "filtering" whilst on cycle patrol, motorcycle patrol or on #OpClosePass with no harm to ourselves or other road users.West Midlands police.
Close relative of 'yourself' as used by mistake agents and similar bureaucratic mustelids?
Today I have a question for this thread!Today I have "non-US dollar based partners," which I've rendered as written. Seems quite simple in comparison (and sadly devoid of chemical pun potential).
In the phrase "our anti money laundering systems" where would you place hyphens?
anti-money-laundering systems
anti-money laundering systems
anti money-laundering systems
anti-moneylaundering systems
They all look a bit wrong to me (including leaving them all out).
An actor, or a witness in court, might give a credible performance. A footballer might give a creditable performance. Sportsball pundits, get your shit outsorted.
Today I have "non-US dollar based partners," which I've rendered as written. Seems quite simple in comparison (and sadly devoid of chemical pun potential).
An actor, or a witness in court, might give a credible performance. A footballer might give a creditable performance. Sportsball pundits, get your shit outsorted.
But if a footballer can give an incredible performance, surely they must be able to give a credible one.
Reminds me of when I first came across the Polish word for incredible. "The bloke who organises these charity events is niesamowity." So what does that mean? Nie, obviously, is a negative prefix, so I looked up samowity in a Polish-English dictionary. Not there. No such word. Turns out Polish, quite sensibly, uses different words for "credible=believable" and "incredible=amazing."An actor, or a witness in court, might give a credible performance. A footballer might give a creditable performance. Sportsball pundits, get your shit outsorted.
But if a footballer can give an incredible performance, surely they must be able to give a credible one.
Partners who use any currency other the US dollar. As opposed to non-US dollar-based partners, I suppose. You'd think lawyers would speak more clearly.Today I have "non-US dollar based partners," which I've rendered as written. Seems quite simple in comparison (and sadly devoid of chemical pun potential).
But is that partners who use non-US dollars, or partners who use US dollars although they're not based in the USA, or something entirely different?
Does getting your shit outsorted mean getting it sorted by a third party contracted for the specific task?That's quite a useful term!
I just didn't want to end a sentence with a preposition. It seems that this is the type of thread up with which people will not put that. :facepalm:
I just didn't want to end a sentence with a preposition. It seems that this is the type of thread up with which people will not put that. :facepalm:
Isn't the preposition "rule" one of those spurious 19th-century dictates? I'd look it up in Fowler but it's two feet out of reach.
I'm slightly puzzled by the Pseudo-latin reference. Split infinitives seem to be popular in the American dialects of our language. UK dialects, particularly the RP varieties (which many in the UK view as an affectation) have a different tradition. I don't know of any split inifinitives in Black Country, though I'm not a native speaker.I just didn't want to end a sentence with a preposition. It seems that this is the type of thread up with which people will not put that. :facepalm:
What are you talking about? ;)Isn't the preposition "rule" one of those spurious 19th-century dictates? I'd look it up in Fowler but it's two feet out of reach.
Yes - belongs in the bin along with split infinitives, another pseudo-Latin affectation.
In contrast, Latin lacks (lacked, if you prefer, though it seems to be the Lingua Franca :demon: in the Vatican) splittable infinitives. Are there any European languages that share this oddment of English (with a suspicion that some of the pidgin English dialects may not have it)?
I don't see wheels having the capacity to tell lies.
Bristol’s streets will be safer for cyclists when the government relaxes the laws on electrically-powered e-bikes.As opposed to, say, steam-powered e-bikes.
I have attached just one very simple ingredients list to give you a very small idea of what is available from ****'s 64 contracted principles ranges.
Last night, after a narrow Commons vote to delay Brexit, he briefly graduated from corporal to deity: “Forgive them father, for they know not what they do”.
HM Gov. The wrong your[sic] in a Brexit Webinar.Not eu're?
IT IS THE END TIMES
HM Gov. The wrong your[sic] in a Brexit Webinar.
IT IS THE END TIMES
We knew that from the foul term "Brexit"HM Gov. The wrong your[sic] in a Brexit Webinar.
IT IS THE END TIMES
We knew that just from the use of the foul term "Webinar".
giving her the title Mr's
Elsewhere someone has posted a photo of a railway timetable from 1952. On the front cover, to indicate that it was given to passengers without charge, is the word "gratuitous". I love the way words shift in meaning. :thumbsup:
giving her the title Mr's
That's not the etymology, is it?
*googles*
Thank fuck.
Elsewhere someone has posted a photo of a railway timetable from 1952. On the front cover, to indicate that it was given to passengers without charge, is the word "gratuitous". I love the way words shift in meaning. :thumbsup:
<We apologise the lack of grammar and cringe in this post. Normal service will be resumed shortly.>
DM: Graun headline: Creepy men slide into women's DMs all the time, but they can be shut down. Doc Martens? Drogerie Markt? Diuretic Marmalade???
Crombie: Friend of missus's used it to refer to an old copy of a book, and when queried replied "but everyone uses it" without elaborating. The only crombie I know of takes a capital and is a coat. Can someone please explain?
J. & J. Crombie Ltd., a Scottish firm of cloth-makers
Ta, but she spoke of the old copy of the book as being her "crombie". Had it been a copy of the Times and she lived under a bridge I could understand the vestimentary reference, but I gather she doesn't. Could a crombie also mean a vademecum or a staff to be relied on, like Bradshaw's or the OS 1-inch series?
Ta, but she spoke of the old copy of the book as being her "crombie". Had it been a copy of the Times and she lived under a bridge I could understand the vestimentary reference, but I gather she doesn't. Could a crombie also mean a vademecum or a staff to be relied on, like Bradshaw's or the OS 1-inch series?
The OED only mentions the coat.
You'd have to ask her what she means by the term - it might not correspond to what others mean or understand by it. This is the trouble with slang - people hear words being used and pick them up but without an understanding of what they mean or where they come from to inform their usage.
Or she could be like me and occasionally make-up words because she thinks they sound like the right sort of word for the intended meaning.
Psychology, Mental Health and Distress
Front Cover
John Cromby, Dave Harper, Paula Reavey
Macmillan Education UK, 27 Feb 2013 - Psychology - 452 pages
0 Reviews
Is depression simply the result of chemical imbalances, or Schizophrenia a wholly biological disorder? What role do the broader circumstances of an individual’s social, cultural and heuristic world play in the wider scheme of their psychological wellbeing? In this ground-breaking and highly innovative text, Cromby et al deliver an introduction to the the biopsychosocial paradigm for understanding and treating psychological distress, taking into consideration the wider contexts that engender the onset of mental illness and critiquing the limitations in the sole use of the biomedical model in psychological practice. Rather than biologically determined or clinically measurable, readers are encouraged to consider mental illness as a subjective experience that is expressed according to the individual experiences of the sufferer rather than the rigidity of diagnostic categories. Similarly, approaches to recovery expand beyond psychiatric medication to consider the fundamental function of methods such as psychotherapy, community psychology and service-user movements in the recovery process. Offering a holistic account of the experience of psychological distress, this text draws upon not only statistical evidence but places an integral emphasis on the service-user experience; anecdotal accounts of which feature throughout in order to provide readers with the perspective of the mental health sufferer.
Taking an integrative approach to the psychology of mental health, the authors draw from a wealth of experience, examples and approaches to present this student-friendly and engaging text. This is core reading for anyone serious about understanding mental health issues and is suitable for undergraduate students taking introductory courses in psychology and abnormal psychology.
DM: Graun headline: Creepy men slide into women's DMs all the time, but they can be shut down. Doc Martens? Drogerie Markt? Diuretic Marmalade???
Direct messages (ie private communication on social media channels)QuoteCrombie: Friend of missus's used it to refer to an old copy of a book, and when queried replied "but everyone uses it" without elaborating. The only crombie I know of takes a capital and is a coat. Can someone please explain?
A synonym for hesh. ;)
I believe it comes from Abercrombie & Fitch - a clothing brand that is popular among today's youth.
THE TERM “HESH” AND THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST seem to go hand-in-hand. But what does hesh mean? It’s not easily defined, and there’s certainly lots of room for interpretation. Most would agree it’s derived from the word “Hessian,”
DM: Graun headline: Creepy men slide into women's DMs all the time, but they can be shut down. Doc Martens? Drogerie Markt? Diuretic Marmalade???
Direct messages (ie private communication on social media channels)QuoteCrombie: Friend of missus's used it to refer to an old copy of a book, and when queried replied "but everyone uses it" without elaborating. The only crombie I know of takes a capital and is a coat. Can someone please explain?
A synonym for hesh. ;)
I believe it comes from Abercrombie & Fitch - a clothing brand that is popular among today's youth.
'Hesh', as any fule kno, is an acronym for "High explosive squash head", wot is a type of ammunition used in anti-tank weapons. Firing old books at armour-plated mechanical behemoths is rarely a sound tactic. Even Dickens is no match for a T-42.
Use lower case for East, west, south and north unless they form part of a proper name:From a style guide. :facepalm:
North Korea, South Africa, but northeast India.
Strange-ish: the URL contains 'cover' but the page it lands on doesn't. Someone at the Beeb has been doing some backing & filling.Yeah, the text on the page has been edited. The captions in the video itself were always fine.
Pakistan is a mixture of a portmanteau word and an acronym: it is said to be compounded of elements from Punjab, Afghan Frontier, Kashmir, Sind and Baluchistan.The spurious backronym is clearly neither a recent phenomenon nor restricted to urban myth and bad journalism. The origin of Pakistan is the word pak meaning pure, clean, in both physical and spiritual senses, as in Pak Butchers. (https://www.pakbutchers.co.uk) Pakistan is the Land of the Pure.
I have myself asked for "drei croissant,s'il vous plaitpor favor"
Have you ever fallen over while clipping in to your peddles?
Any day now the illiterati will be protesting that peddle is an acceptable alternative; and 5 years later the OED will so list it.
Bonus point for:I have myself asked for "drei croissant,s'il vous plaitpor favor"
:D
Any day now the illiterati will be protesting that peddle is an acceptable alternative; and 5 years later the OED will so list it.
Chambers already does.
(probably)
Bonus point for:I have myself asked for "drei croissant,s'il vous plaitpor favor"
:D
Last time I tried to speak French, it came out in a mixture of BSL and German...
(Disclaimer: I'm monumentally shit at French, and my brane only has room for about 1.5 languages.)
The town functions as a microcosm of what African Americans have had to deal with in America, says Dr Barbara Ellen Smith, a professor emerita who has spent much of her career focused on inequality in Appalachia.I don't think I've come across this feminine version before. As we don't inflect adjectives in English, it's kind of odd to do so even if the term is borrowed from Latin. In fact, I'm wondering if we even use this form in UK?
The plural is "emeriti" according to Merriam-Webster.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emeritus
QuoteThe town functions as a microcosm of what African Americans have had to deal with in America, says Dr Barbara Ellen Smith, a professor emerita who has spent much of her career focused on inequality in Appalachia.I don't think I've come across this feminine version before. As we don't inflect adjectives in English, it's kind of odd to do so even if the term is borrowed from Latin. In fact, I'm wondering if we even use this form in UK?
(Ely Dave and others please not, this is another not-cringe!)
Athro Almaeneg Emerita Aberystwyth Emerita Professor of German
The plural is "emeriti" according to Merriam-Webster.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emeritus
:sick:
When did it become a noun?
This is an outrage.
Hang about, it'll be a verb next week.
The plural is "emeriti" according to Merriam-Webster.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emeritus
:sick:
When did it become a noun?
Since Tacitus, Suetonius and Lacanus used it as a noun, I'd say it was about 2000 years ago.
Hang about, it'll be a verb next week.
Single or double S in the past participle?
None. "After 32 years on the faculty, he emerited." Or should that be "emeritted"?Hang about, it'll be a verb next week.
Single or double S in the past participle?
Oh, a single, so that people can argue over whether it's pronounced -ussed or -yoozed.
And in English since 1701, which is almost a century before people started using it as an adjective.The plural is "emeriti" according to Merriam-Webster.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emeritus
:sick:
When did it become a noun?
Since Tacitus, Suetonius and Lacanus used it as a noun, I'd say it was about 2000 years ago.
First Known Use of emeritus
Noun
circa 1701, in the meaning defined above
Adjective
1794, in the meaning defined at sense 1
None. "After 32 years on the faculty, he emerited." Or should that be "emeritted"?Hang about, it'll be a verb next week.
Single or double S in the past participle?
Oh, a single, so that people can argue over whether it's pronounced -ussed or -yoozed.
And in English since 1701, which is almost a century before people started using it as an adjective.
I'd just use the plural. Themself looks a bit odd and forced.
I'd just use the plural. Themself looks a bit odd and forced.
Actually, yes, agreed.
It's people (primarily Mistake Agents and other mustelid professionals) using 'yourself' when they mean 'you' that winds me up.
It's people (primarily Mistake Agents and other mustelid professionals) using 'yourself' when they mean 'you' that winds me up.
I've got a post somewhere upthread on exactly this. It really winds me up, along with all the similar ones such as "If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact myself".
Or just avoid the clunky wording with [t]he Principal Contractor must be satisfied that the are no major cables in the vicinity of the works or similar.I think so. A lot of the problems with gender neutrality do seem to be capable of resolution in this way - i.e. avoid backing yourself into the corner of needing to use a gender-sensitive pronoun, rather than using a clunky way out of it.
Each day brings new policies to block or detain asylum seekers and migrants from legal entry, adding new challenges and terror imposed on the fronterizx—people from both El Paso and Juárez—who have always crossed and made a life on both sides.https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/08/rio-grande-map-us-mexico-border-history-el-paso-rio-bravo/596227/
A pub for people who preserve the distinction between plural and singular. (https://www.bristol247.com/food-and-drink/pubs-and-bars/pub-of-the-week-the-criterion/)Funnily enough (?) I've just heard Paul Merton survive a related challenge on Just A Minute;
...establishments and business units’ are advised to review...
A magazine for sale in WH Smith titled "Hobby's" !
This one?Good spot and elucidation - I had to go and hide in the corner of WH Smith in case I was right !
(https://hobby.uk.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/aa3b0f049e82e9c7bbaca44dff1a2d5c/a/n/an_50_web.jpg)
It's not about hobbies, it's a catalogue from a company called Hobby.
Win or lose, this will be the last time I stand for Parliament. And it's becoming increasingly clear that my last election will also be the most important one I've ever ran in.
Do uk.com domains count as cringeworthy grammar?Not really. They are perfectly legitimate domains. It's just that they are American.
Email from Dominic Grieve this evening...QuoteWin or lose, this will be the last time I stand for Parliament. And it's becoming increasingly clear that my last election will also be the most important one I've ever ran in.
Do uk.com domains count as cringeworthy grammar?Not really. They are perfectly legitimate domains. It's just that they are American.
Invite used as a noun.
Invite used as a noun.
Just checked my 2006 Chambers, and it’s in there as a noun, albeit informal.
If we were to associate domains with geography, Rapha would be based in the Cocos Islands, Tuvalu would be the broadcast equivalent of Hollywood, and so on.Do uk.com domains count as cringeworthy grammar?Not really. They are perfectly legitimate domains. It's just that they are American.
If we were to associate domains with geography, Rapha would be based in the Cocos Islands, Tuvalu would be the broadcast equivalent of Hollywood, and so on.Do uk.com domains count as cringeworthy grammar?Not really. They are perfectly legitimate domains. It's just that they are American.
Usanian dates are a problem because they lead to misinterpretation, ambiguity and confusion. Most people don't really need to interpret domain names in that way and the web wranglers who do, presumably know the grammar. But is it grammar? (yes, you already asked this!) Or is it that in this case as in all language, content is more important than grammar? Just as Usanian dates cease to be a problem when the month is written than given as a number.If we were to associate domains with geography, Rapha would be based in the Cocos Islands, Tuvalu would be the broadcast equivalent of Hollywood, and so on.Do uk.com domains count as cringeworthy grammar?Not really. They are perfectly legitimate domains. It's just that they are American.
My objection was more that it was middle-endian, like a USAnian date. Domain names are usually little-endian.
[3] These are going to be Type 2 fun after brexit...[/sub]
I wonder how those urls would look if the Russians had developed the internet?
If we were to associate domains with geography, Rapha would be based in the Cocos Islands, Tuvalu would be the broadcast equivalent of Hollywood, and so on.Domains are associated with geography, whether you like it or not. .com domains genuinely are managed from the USA, .tv ones generate a significant part of the national income of Tuvalu, and so on. Reading them is pretty easy because, like various other parts of the Internet*, they are based on the real world. We all know that postal addresses divide up the world into ever-smaller sections, working backwards from the end and that, in nearly all cases, a different body will be in charge at each level; domain just means the part that a body is in charge of:
That's what I'm saying! Rapha's website is on a server located in the Cocos Islands but it's simply because of a coincidence, there's no link between the company and the islands. Adverts tell me I could register a .tv address for £34.99 a year but unfortunately there's no South Pacific holiday in it.If we were to associate domains with geography, Rapha would be based in the Cocos Islands, Tuvalu would be the broadcast equivalent of Hollywood, and so on.Domains are associated with geography, whether you like it or not. .com domains genuinely are managed from the USA, .tv ones generate a significant part of the national income of Tuvalu, and so on.
Response to email to colleague:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm
"I am out of office. I will be back on <date>"
Could you not have typed "the", colleague?
On the other hand, a different colleague has "Dear Sender, Thank you for your email. I am currently unable to respond to your enquiry as I am out of the office until <date> and will not be able to respond until then." which goes a bit too far in the opposite direction.
That's what I'm saying! Rapha's website is on a server located in the Cocos Islands but it's simply because of a coincidence, there's no link between the company and the islands.If we were to associate domains with geography, Rapha would be based in the Cocos Islands, Tuvalu would be the broadcast equivalent of Hollywood, and so on.Domains are associated with geography, whether you like it or not. .com domains genuinely are managed from the USA, .tv ones generate a significant part of the national income of Tuvalu, and so on.
I knew that was going to be the Welsh out-of-office story before I clicked on it...Response to email to colleague:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm
"I am out of office. I will be back on <date>"
Could you not have typed "the", colleague?
On the other hand, a different colleague has "Dear Sender, Thank you for your email. I am currently unable to respond to your enquiry as I am out of the office until <date> and will not be able to respond until then." which goes a bit too far in the opposite direction.
That's what I'm saying! Rapha's website is on a server located in the Cocos Islands but it's simply because of a coincidence, there's no link between the company and the islands. Adverts tell me I could register a .tv address for £34.99 a year but unfortunately there's no South Pacific holiday in it.Oh yes, that much is true, because the domain is a separate entity from the server, and simply points to the server wherever it is. There's no requirement for the location of the server to correspond to the country from which the domain is derived. Nor is there (typically, there are exceptions) a requirement that the organisation buying the domain be based in, or even have a presence in, that country. However (at least for the traditional domains before the recent waves of daft ones), the domains absolutely do relate to the countries, and bodies within those countries, that control and issue them.
Invite used as a noun.
Just checked my 2006 Chambers, and it’s in there as a noun, albeit informal.
If we were to associate domains with geography, Rapha would be based in the Cocos Islands, Tuvalu would be the broadcast equivalent of Hollywood, and so on.Do uk.com domains count as cringeworthy grammar?Not really. They are perfectly legitimate domains. It's just that they are American.
My objection was more that it was middle-endian, like a USAnian date. Domain names are usually little-endian.
Response to email to colleague:
"I am out of office. I will be back on <date>"
Could you not have typed "the", colleague?
In hopsital = ill.
In the hospital = in the location for another reason, eg work or visiting.
Generally speaking. Same with school and a few other specific purpose buildings, eg court.
Response to email to colleague:
"I am out of office. I will be back on <date>"
Could you not have typed "the", colleague?
As a native speaker of Leftpondese, I would agree with "out of the office" as 'normal.' But, then again we say that someone is "in the hospital" versus "in hospital" over here.
As pub is short for public house, I guess it's a multifunction place. At least potentially.
On similar lines, go to the pub, go to hospital, go to Australia, but gotohome. Why?
We've also hired some female external women into important roles across the region.He is, of course, boasting. And let's not look to closely at the adjective order. But he's also from the southern hemisphere, they do things differently there.
[2] Since this is the grammar thread, should that be "RingTFM"? I sincerely hope not.[/sub]Ring the fucking manual? That's probably something that happens in Rogerzilla's office!
Of course, home is an adverb there, not a noun. Just like bush, in fact. D'oh on me for thinking of it as a noun!As pub is short for public house, I guess it's a multifunction place. At least potentially.
On similar lines, go to the pub, go to hospital, go to Australia, but gotohome. Why?
Not just going home, going upstairs, or going anywhere, in fact ('adverbs of place' apparently)
You know the women/female thing that annoys some people? Well, some like to hedge their bets:QuoteWe've also hired some female external women into important roles across the region.He is, of course, boasting. And let's not look to closely at the adjective order. But he's also from the southern hemisphere, they do things differently there.
Didn't domain names used to be backwards and wasn't there something horrid were you had to somehow wrangle an address through nfs.net or something strange (and there was a dog called fido), and much of the internet was based around vibrating strings, and not the eleven-dimensional sort, oh no, real wet string.Not that I can think of, but I may be missing something. Unless you're remembering X.400 email addresses (https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/X400), such as:
Aaaaaah, bang paths...
Shoppers will no longer be able to find Grolsch lager bottles in Tesco and Asda supermarkets.Tobago!
The Dutch beer is recognisable by its distinctive green glass bottles and swig-top lids.
My knowledge of Scots Gaelic is zero but I'm guessing from this combination of headline and photo:
Tuil a' toirt buaidh air loidhne rèile
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/15F4C/production/_109623998_flood_networkrail.jpg)
that the Gaelic for ice is similar to the Polish, lód. Which is unexpected.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/naidheachdan/50388106
Edit: The English headline says flooding, so it's probably nothing to do with ice, though it does look like ice on that photo.
Flooding affects railway in Highlands and A75 in South
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50389244
So, the Gaelic for flooding is nothing like the Polish. Which is not unexpected.
Yeah, already worked out that it's nothing to do with ice. :facepalm: But not that it was "line". :thumbsup:
Terrible new's!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/01/laziness-has-won-apostrophe-society-admits-its-defeat?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR1K1pS1vD6x989KL6SRT3OsssA44Vh6hM-FubANtMDAYkqggVPapeEPpQs
I see the Apostrophe Society is being wound up.
That hiker's head would make a good collective plural apostrophe...
Id be happy to see the back of apostrophes, tbh.
I would be happy to see the back of apostrophes, tbh.
Talking of that^^, I read that "old people" have started using a "comma ellipsis" ,,, rather than ... Why? I don't know, but speculation is that it shows up better on a small screen to old eyes. Of course "young people" have started using this ironically, as a sort of punctuation pisstaking meme.
A cunning linguist. From the internets.Cats on walls! Ox heads for glottal stops! Null morpheme! :thumbsup:
https://gretchenmcculloch.com/
Oh, I think you find that decimate means kill one in ten, says a passing pedant. No, it doesn't in the 21st century unless you're still using Julius F. Caesar's dictionary.Have you been reading this? (https://theconversation.com/apostrophes-linguistics-expert-imagines-a-happier-world-without-them-128363)
In fact, by removing apostrophes altogether, the pedantry arsenal is vastly reduced. Without their favourite punctuation mark of judgement, your average pedant will be forced to make do with old favourites such as split infinitives and insisting on the “correct” meaning of “decimate”.
Oh, I think you find that decimate means kill one in ten, says a passing pedant. No, it doesn't in the 21st century unless you're still using Julius F. Caesar's dictionary.Have you been reading this? (https://theconversation.com/apostrophes-linguistics-expert-imagines-a-happier-world-without-them-128363)QuoteIn fact, by removing apostrophes altogether, the pedantry arsenal is vastly reduced. Without their favourite punctuation mark of judgement, your average pedant will be forced to make do with old favourites such as split infinitives and insisting on the “correct” meaning of “decimate”.
Never mind the apostrophe, the current fad for the misplaced question mark is making me annoyed?The aforementioned Gretchen McCulloch demonstrates the difference between a linguist and a grammarian:
So if you’re mentioning me somewhere, please do double-check the spelling of my name?https://gretchenmcculloch.com/name/
Never mind the apostrophe, the current fad for the misplaced question mark is making me annoyed?
Presumably that's linguistic drift from 'a question mark hangs over <statement x>'?Yeah, that was my first thought. But it's still wrong!
But things change.... in which case we could decimate this thread before it got going.
And didn't the Rolling Stones sing "Get off of my cloud" in about 1967?yes they did! Good reference (it was my in-laws favourite song - gosh, did that story improve with every telling ... )
But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!Agreed.
But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!Agreed.
(Americans seem to base things off of where we base them on, in the same way that they fill things out and we fill them in.)The Young British People of Today use "based off of" without any awareness that it might be of transpondian provenance. Doubtless in umpty years time they'll be grumbling about the modern habit of saying "based in" (or whatever) as opposed to the proper British tradition of "based off of".
i wrote a po'emBut song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!Agreed.
I'd say the same goes for poetry.
But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!Agreed.
Not possible.But things change.... in which case we could decimate this thread before it got going.
But if we use Cudzo's logic, we can use the new improved meaning => barely 20 pages to go! :thumbsup:Not possible.But things change.... in which case we could decimate this thread before it got going.
And if we decimated it now there’d still be almost 200 pages of whittling.
And no one hyphenates no one.
Nah, in the grand tradition of this thread, you're both wrong. 'Immune from' is an established usage and meaning according to my OED. Slightly different emphasis to 'immune to.' That said, I'd have used 'immune to' in that headline because it sounds better. Donald Trump may think he's immune from prosecution, but he's not immune to the ongoing investigations of lawmakers.
And no one hyphenates no one.
We could go for the New-Yorker-esque noöne instead?Haven’t seen that before. You could say that that no one version is more ‘correct’ than any other. Or, indeed, that no-one’s is.
On another topic, why are all the seasonal adverts on about "gifting"? What's that, when it's at home?
Well yes, but why? It's as circular as burglarisation.On another topic, why are all the seasonal adverts on about "gifting"? What's that, when it's at home?It's a special consumerist version of 'giving' isn't it?
"Giving" carries implications of generosity and free will which are incompatible with the modern festival.
You'd expect "no one" to have become one word, like"none" ?
I'd say it's worthy of a cringe, but less 'grammar cringe' than 'oh what a fucked up society we have made' cringe. Not to be confused with 'social cringe'. Maybe 'moral cringe'?
On another circular note, expiration. I'm not sure if this is just a case of more syllables = more impressiver or if someone decided that an expiry date on your credit card was likely to put you off using it, because it would remind you of death.
I'd say it's worthy of a cringe, but less 'grammar cringe' than 'oh what a fucked up society we have made' cringe. Not to be confused with 'social cringe'. Maybe 'moral cringe'?
On another circular note, expiration. I'm not sure if this is just a case of more syllables = more impressiver or if someone decided that an expiry date on your credit card was likely to put you off using it, because it would remind you of death.
I think 'expiration' is USAnian, 'expiry' is UKnian...
Where does the lead singer of Herman's Hermits fit into all this?
(I don't think the NYer actually does that - I suspect they hyphenate - but they infamously still use the diaeresis on words like coöperate.)
Unidentified victim of sex trafficking put their hands together in a show of solidarity at an anti-human trafficking agency in Boston, Massachusetts.The meaning is clear but only because a trafficking agency which is anti-human would hide behind a different name. No, I don't have an answer: "anti human-trafficking agency" leaves no room for ambiguity but the anti on its own looks odd, and "agency against human trafficking" would presumably be too wordy for a caption. Nor do I have an answer to the rather more serious problem of human trafficking (which might, I suppose, sometimes be better described as "trafficking which is anti-human").
BRISTOL24/7 MAN OF THE YEAR 2019: JUDD TRUMPOnly in the fourth paragraph is the secret revealed.
By MARTIN BOOTH, Friday Nov 29, 2019
Judd Trump was at Heathrow Airport about to fly to China for the World Open when he spoke to Bristol24/7. Just over a week later, he was flying back to the UK the winner of that tournament; and the following week travelled the shorter distance to Belfast for the Northern Ireland Open, from which he also returned the winner.
As this magazine was going to press, the 30-year-old former Hartcliffe School pupil was preparing for the UK Championship, and he will be traveling to York as the favourite to lift yet another trophy in what has been an incredible 2019. Trump won the world title for the first time in April and has dominated the sport in the past year, winning three ranking events and a second Masters crown.
………………………………
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………………………………
So what will he remember most about 2019? “I think obviously what comes to mind is the World Championships win,” Trump said over the phone from Heathrow Terminal Two. “And also beating Ronnie (O’Sullivan) in the Masters was pretty special, giving me the confidence to do what I did in the World Championships.”
In those World Championships in Sheffield in May, Trump played some of the best snooker of his career as he beat John Higgins 18-9 to win his debut world title and take home a cheque for £500,000, making him the first player to amass more than £1m in a single season.
An Edinburgh restaurant announces proudly on the way in that "our policy is to cloakroom all outdoor coats."Or rubbished, to use a more conventionally British verbed noun.
While I don't have a problem with that policy in itself, I'm firmly of the belief that such verbing of nouns should be garbaged.
An Edinburgh restaurant announces proudly on the way in that "our policy is to cloakroom all outdoor coats."Or rubbished, to use a more conventionally British verbed noun.
While I don't have a problem with that policy in itself, I'm firmly of the belief that such verbing of nouns should be garbaged.
Where does the lead singer of Herman's Hermits fit into all this?Late catching up but still ;D
I have to say that I never expected to post on this thread, what with me tending towards dyslexia with a total inability to decode multi-syllable words let alone spell them.
However, I’d like to think that my grammar is reasonably sharp with a tendency to use the right words in the right places.
The reason I’m posting here is people’s 1continued use of the word ran when they should have written the word run. I’m a member of a Facebook running group, the number of people that say I haven been on a ran for xxx, or has anyone ran the xyz marathon.
It really grates, but now that I type the above, I’m beginning to doubt myself. Hrumph.
In 2020 my new year's resolution is to upset less grammar pedants
Quote from: Richard OsmanIn 2020 my new year's resolution is to upset less grammar pedants
I have to say that I never expected to post on this thread, what with me tending towards dyslexia with a total inability to decode multi-syllable words let alone spell them.
However, I’d like to think that my grammar is reasonably sharp with a tendency to use the right words in the right places.
The reason I’m posting here is people’s 1continued use of the word ran when they should have written the word run. I’m a member of a Facebook running group, the number of people that say I haven been on a ran for xxx, or has anyone ran the xyz marathon.
It really grates, but now that I type the above, I’m beginning to doubt myself. Hrumph.
I ran the marathon is essentially the same as I have run the marathon in my personal view, although I have a tickling memory that I have run is the pluperfect rather than just the perfect.
As someone who stopped latin and english language at O-level 46 years ago to do three sciences, I am surprised i even remember that.
An expert will be along shortly
I'd think of the present perfect as a present tense which describes the past.
Right, this is a grammar grumble. Not a cringe. House style explicitly states in several places not to use commas before 'and'. But you've used a comma here, and there, and somewhere else, and in every sentence, and it's not a matter of right and wrong, and it is a matter of Teh Roolz, and thank goodness for 'replace all'. ,and breathe...
The disabled teenagers who's identity crisis led them to modelling careers
House style?Colouring book? :thumbsup: Which one is yours? ;D
Headline on BBC News website...QuoteThe disabled teenagers who's identity crisis led them to modelling careers
House style?Colouring book? :thumbsup: Which one is yours? ;D
Can anyone call themself a therapist or a counsellor?
That one's so conventional now that reading older texts with the once equally conventional "Can anyone call himself... " can be slightly jarring if you're not expecting it.
BBC news website headlineQuoteCan anyone call themself a therapist or a counsellor?
The "gender neutral" personal pronoun. :facepalm:
BBC news website headlineQuoteCan anyone call themself a therapist or a counsellor?
The "gender neutral" personal pronoun. :facepalm:
What's wrong with that? There's an obvious need for gender-neutral pronouns, and it seems reasonable to use the ones that are familiar through hundreds of years of use rather than more clunky alternatives.
All words are made up. 'themself' is at least 600 years old. *shrug*I think that's Thor's point; that plural 'them' should not be joined with singular 'self'. But 'anyone' is singular, so 'themselves' doesn't entirely fit either. The best thing might be to rewrite the headline so as to avoid the problem. Maybe 'What qualifications are needed to call yourself a therapist or counsellor?'
Thinking about it a bit more, unlike the BBC headline writer, I'd probably use 'themselves' for referring to a non-specific person or group and 'themself' for a known person who uses they/them pronouns.
All words are made up. 'themself' is at least 600 years old. *shrug*
It is increasingly common for non-binary people to use the singular pronoun “they”.
presumably someone who wants to be addressed as 'they' would refer to themself/-ves as 'we'
Okay, I suppose that's actually more sensible than we if the idea is to avoid gender in pronouns. But I'm wondering, in a grammatical rather than pobi way, what the equivalent non-binary people French people use, seeing as French only has il(s) and elle(s). Although I suppose there's on. T42, any ideas?presumably someone who wants to be addressed as 'they' would refer to themself/-ves as 'we'
None of the non-binary people I know do. Small sample, admittedly.
For a minute, I was thinking this is actually a bigger change in grammar than we realise, because it means verbs no longer agree with their subjects. We could say "John Smith is the first non-binary person to become mayor of an English town. They were elected mayor of Piddletrenthide on Tuesday... ". But actually, I don't think that's not correct. Instead, it's more like the process by which the old plural and formal 'you (are)' replaced the old informal singular 'thou (ist[?])' giving us identical single and plural pronouns and verbs in the second person. Now we're seeing the same for the third person, and presumably someone who wants to be addressed as 'they' would refer to themself/-ves as 'we'. So we're halving the number of pronouns – a great simplification!
Of course, it's hard to be gender-neutral in a language with grammatical gender, to the point where activisim tends to take a different focus.Activism or expression?
For a minute, I was thinking this is actually a bigger change in grammar than we realise, because it means verbs no longer agree with their subjects. We could say "John Smith is the first non-binary person to become mayor of an English town. They were elected mayor of Piddletrenthide on Tuesday... ". But actually, I don't think that's not correct. Instead, it's more like the process by which the old plural and formal 'you (are)' replaced the old informal singular 'thou (ist[?])' giving us identical single and plural pronouns and verbs in the second person. Now we're seeing the same for the third person, and presumably someone who wants to be addressed as 'they' would refer to themself/-ves as 'we'. So we're halving the number of pronouns – a great simplification!
Thou art. Still quite common in t'Land o' t'Whippet.
But by that logic, wouldn't 'cricket, rugby and football with all nations' suggest that we're keeping cricket to ourselves?Absolutely not. It's a list. There's no reason to distinguish between the second and first items. To do that, you'd need:
But by that logic, wouldn't 'cricket, rugby and football with all nations' suggest that we're keeping cricket to ourselves?Absolutely not. It's a list.
Britons still stranded in the Chinese city at the centre of the deadly coronavirus outbreak have said confusing messages from officials contributed to them missing an evacuation flight home.It doesn't make me cringe, or really bother me, but it still gives me pause.
gerund
Nothing to be frightened of. Think of it as a verb used as a noun: I like running, smoking is bad for your health, etc. You are supposed to use a possessive: I was worried by his smoking, rather than I was worried by him smoking. In practice, many people – yes, even journalists – don’t bother
So is it '...them missing' rather than '...their missing' that gives you pause?
I think this is correct, but it’s so awkward...
“The path she had strode down”
Dodik calls for Republika Srpska succession
Bosnian-Serb President Milorad Dodik has called for a referendum on the succession of the RS from BiH. RS succession talks have...
I don’t think it is suggesting they are being armed. I think it is suggesting the refugees are the weapon. It is suggesting that you can cripple a country by sending in tanks or sending in millions of refugees.English is a wonderful language ... I don't want it to become Leftpondian or txt speak.
CNN headline today: Greece accuses Turkey of weaponizing refugees.
Meanwhile, yesterday I heard a small child (about 3 years old), waiting excitedly for a train, say 'Here comes it! I see it!' No, I'm not cringing at a toddler's grammar, I'm wondering what learning process leads to 'Here comes it' rather than 'Here it comes'. Maybe just analogy with 'I see it', maybe treating it as an object, or something else?
Meanwhile, yesterday I heard a small child (about 3 years old), waiting excitedly for a train, say 'Here comes it! I see it!' No, I'm not cringing at a toddler's grammar, I'm wondering what learning process leads to 'Here comes it' rather than 'Here it comes'. Maybe just analogy with 'I see it', maybe treating it as an object, or something else?
English as a second/alternate language at home possibly?
This one is simply horrible: "UK mulls tightening restrictions further". I've seen a lot of mulling on the Beeb recently...
::-) :DThis one is simply horrible: "UK mulls tightening restrictions further". I've seen a lot of mulling on the Beeb recently...
Oh, it's nothing to wine about.
Substitute seems to be changing its meaning. It used to mean (and still does) that if X was substituted for Y then X replaced Y. Nowadays it occasionally (often?) means that Y replaced X. I blame soccer.
Substitute seems to be changing its meaning. It used to mean (and still does) that if X was substituted for Y then X replaced Y. Nowadays it occasionally (often?) means that Y replaced X. I blame soccer.
I'll be perfectly honest, I can never remember which way round is correct. But to be even more honest, if I thought it mattered, I might make more effort to remember! The intended meaning is usually obvious from the context.
I've even been known not to give a toss when people use "evacuate" incorrectly (ie evacuating a building rather than a person).
Shirley a building can be evacuated, so can a person if you have a hose and a funnel
That's what happens, in the end. Mistakes co-exist with correct usage and meanings become woolly. The mistakes usually appear in Guardian crosswords not long into this process.The clues in Guardian crosswords seem to be made as far from the standard usage as possible without being impossible to say it's the same word. Which makes sense given their function. Though I do hope nobody's trying to learn English from them.
That's what happens, in the end. Mistakes co-exist with correct usage and meanings become woolly. The mistakes usually appear in Guardian crosswords not long into this process.The clues in Guardian crosswords seem to be made as far from the standard usage as possible without being impossible to say it's the same word. Which makes sense given their function. Though I do hope nobody's trying to learn English from them.
The clues in Guardian crosswords seem to be made as far from the standard usage as possible without being impossible to say it's the same word. Which makes sense given their function. Though I do hope nobody's trying to learn English from them.
The clues in Guardian crosswords seem to be made as far from the standard usage as possible without being impossible to say it's the same word. Which makes sense given their function. Though I do hope nobody's trying to learn English from them.
Most crossword compilers use Chambers as their dictionary of choice - mainly because of its liberal attitude towards the inclusion of variant spellings and secondary meanings. I also have on my bookshelf a copy of the Chambers Crossword Dictionary, which includes plentiful lists of common cruciverbalisms.
The only thing you will learn from doing crosswords regularly is how to become good at solving crosswords.
Brewers Dictionary of Phrase & Fable is also a classic crossword companion.
...a siphonophore measuring an estimated 150 feet (46 metres)...The research vehicle dove as deep as 4,439 metres, but the siphonophore was only discovered as the vehicle was making its way back to the surface at around 630 metres... The new siphonophore was about twice as long as many blue whales, and three times as long as a humpback whale, which usually grow to around 50ft long.On balance I rather like this inconsistency, as it assumes the target audience (Americans, judging by the use of 'dove') will be familiar with both measurement systems.
Depth in metres, length in feet. Nothing inconsistent about that. ;)Quote...a siphonophore measuring an estimated 150 feet (46 metres)...The research vehicle dove as deep as 4,439 metres, but the siphonophore was only discovered as the vehicle was making its way back to the surface at around 630 metres... The new siphonophore was about twice as long as many blue whales, and three times as long as a humpback whale, which usually grow to around 50ft long.On balance I rather like this inconsistency, as it assumes the target audience (Americans, judging by the use of 'dove') will be familiar with both measurement systems.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/15/like-a-spiral-ufo-worlds-longest-animal-discovered-in-australian-waters
I can't fathom depths in metresAre you a feet on the ground sort of guy?
Prodigal sheep returns after seven years in Tasmania
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/16/prickles-the-sheep-home-at-last-after-fleeing-2013-tasmanian-bushfires
Quote...a siphonophore measuring an estimated 150 feet (46 metres)...The research vehicle dove as deep as 4,439 metres, but the siphonophore was only discovered as the vehicle was making its way back to the surface at around 630 metres... The new siphonophore was about twice as long as many blue whales, and three times as long as a humpback whale, which usually grow to around 50ft long.On balance I rather like this inconsistency, as it assumes the target audience (Americans, judging by the use of 'dove') will be familiar with both measurement systems.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/15/like-a-spiral-ufo-worlds-longest-animal-discovered-in-australian-waters
Yes. That was kind of in my mind at the time.Prodigal sheep returns after seven years in Tasmania
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/16/prickles-the-sheep-home-at-last-after-fleeing-2013-tasmanian-bushfires
Well, not "cringe", but I expected to read that the sheep had gone back to Australia or NZ after sojourning in a far country and wasting substance with riotous living, and to hear what the sheep's older sibling had to say. Perhaps something like "I've always stayed here on the home pasture, and now you're giving her a ride in your Ute?"
perhaps "After seven years, prodigal sheep returns in Tasmania" ?
WE HAVE HAD TO REDUCE OUR OPENING AND CLOSING HOURS
A local shop informs customers:QuoteWE HAVE HAD TO REDUCE OUR OPENING AND CLOSING HOURS
???
A local shop informs customers:QuoteWE HAVE HAD TO REDUCE OUR OPENING AND CLOSING HOURS
???
A local shop informs customers:... because our opening time changing every day by 3 hours was confusing people. We have therefore reduced opening hours by 2, and closing hours by 1 and adopted a more traditional 24 hour cycle.QuoteWE HAVE HAD TO REDUCE OUR OPENING AND CLOSING HOURS
???
A local shop informs customers:There, that's what they wanted to sayQuoteWE HAVE HAD TO REDUCE OUR OPENINGAND CLOSINGHOURS AND INCREASE OUR CLOSED HOURS
???
negative prices are very unusual but they’re certainly not uncommon.It does make sense if you interpret unusual as not normal rather than not frequent, but it still makes me laugh.
I think it was not uncommon for scholars to use a 'formal' language for writing and something looser for general chat.Again, kind of. At the time when the New Testament was written (in Greek), it was the custom for scholarly works to be written in older, classical Greek. Sort of like us now writing in Shakespearean English, because it seems posher.
On behalf of T42, I'll nominate almost all of today's Grauniad quick crossword. Many of the clues have been transposed, so for instance the clue for 25 across reads "In repose (2,4)" and the answer is "Tested".
On a similar note, the Chiltern Railways message, "This train is for Solihull/Marylebone/wherever." I keep thinking, "Well, who is against Solihull?" whereas the message is simply missing one word. It should be, "This train is heading for (or bound for) Solihull."Ooh, it's a long list!
"Well, who is against Solihull?"
I may have mentioned this, but not as much as our local railways, who are always on about "boarding or alighting trains". They seem blissfully unaware that they are asking people to set their rolling stock on fire :o ::-)
Oi, watch it! I wouldn't mind so much if people could pronounce it properly. It's so-lee-'hull with a final stressed syllable. And it could be worse, it could be Sutton Coldfield.On a similar note, the Chiltern Railways message, "This train is for Solihull/Marylebone/wherever." I keep thinking, "Well, who is against Solihull?" whereas the message is simply missing one word. It should be, "This train is heading for (or bound for) Solihull."Ooh, it's a long list!
Oi, watch it! I wouldn't mind so much if people could pronounce it properly. It's so-lee-'hull with a final stressed syllable. And it could be worse, it could be Sutton Coldfield.On a similar note, the Chiltern Railways message, "This train is for Solihull/Marylebone/wherever." I keep thinking, "Well, who is against Solihull?" whereas the message is simply missing one word. It should be, "This train is heading for (or bound for) Solihull."Ooh, it's a long list!
You can also set something alight but you can't alight anything.No, but somehow it sounds closer to setting the train on fire than to disembarking from it ;D
Just ordered some tights from Endura. Their confirmation email says:
"Thank you for placing an order with us. We are in the process of getting your order ready for shipment and we will follow up to let you know when it is on its way. PLEASE NOTE OUR CURRENT DELIVERY TIMES OUR 10 WORKING DAYS SO PLEASE BARE WITH US."
::-) ;D
I think the stuff in capitals was added by someone who didn't draft the first (non-caps) sentence.
(Luckily, I haven't so completely worn the old ones that I am baring anything)
I've been editing a document about alleged fraud in an Irish bank. The Irish police are called the Garda or informally the Guards. This document referred to them as the Guardia, which made I :D.
...
That's what they meant but what they wrote was closer to the parasitic disease Helly mentions. Which might have been amusing if it had been intentional, but it wasn't.I've been editing a document about alleged fraud in an Irish bank. The Irish police are called the Garda or informally the Guards. This document referred to them as the Guardia, which made I :D.
...
Did they perhaps mean Gardaí?
As “Corley services” is the name of the particular motorway services area, singular is probably correct. Even if it just said “services”, as an abbreviation of “motorway services area” singular would be correct, though it jars like “Solomon Islands is covid free”On similar lines, today I read of "a premise" meaning a building.
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As “Corley services” is the name of the particular motorway services area, singular is probably correct. Even if it just said “services”, as an abbreviation of “motorway services area” singular would be correct, though it jars like “Solomon Islands is covid free”Not sure I see this. The name shows that there are multiple services (which is true - food, shops, petrol, etc.) So they are open.
Corley services is a motorway service station between junctions 3 and 3A of the M6 motorway in the county of Warwickshire, England. It is close to the village of Corley, with the nearest city being Coventry. A footbridge, made of concrete but now clad in green fibreglass panelling, spans the motorway to link services on both sides.As “Corley services” is the name of the particular motorway services area, singular is probably correct. Even if it just said “services”, as an abbreviation of “motorway services area” singular would be correct, though it jars like “Solomon Islands is covid free”Not sure I see this. The name shows that there are multiple services (which is true - food, shops, petrol, etc.) So they are open.
Twenty-seven cows are a herd?“Corley services” is the name of a particular motorway services station. It is a proper noun. “Solomon Islands” is a country. Burnham Beeches is a nature reserve. Burnham Beeches is closed. The beeches are leafy. Herd is a collective noun and would normally be used in the singular unless you were referring implicitly to the members of the collection. The word “services” in this context on its own is an abbreviation of “motorway services area” and is always plural but singular in construction. If I asked how many services there are on the m6 what would your answer be ? It is clearly ugly and best avoided.
The herd is over there. All twenty-seven of it?
There are different ways of describing the same thing. Sometimes you just choose constructions that don't use more than one way at once. So,"Corley motorway services are between...", or, "Corley motorway service station is between..." removes both the problem and the unnecessary repetition of service/services. The issue arises because the station is a location comprising multiple services.
But whatever, really. It's a sunny day outside ;D
Three women were left 'embarrassed' after getting stuck in mud at Berrow Beach - despite a warning sign next to wear they had sat.They aren't the only ones who should be embarrassed.
Sign on the M6 "Corley services is still open" :-\I thought of you lot when I drove past that self same sign yesterday.
Aah, the Beeb are at it again, apparently hundreds of “mostly white men” gathered in London today.They look mostly pink to me. A similar shade to a cured pork leg, in fact.
I get the impression that they're taking copy straight from the US and Oz and not fixing it before posting.Quite likely, but also you might be looking at the US/Aus/International edition?
I get the impression that they're taking copy straight from the US and Oz and not fixing it before posting.Quite likely, but also you might be looking at the US/Aus/International edition?
Burglarized
When your home has been subject to a burglarization by a burglarizationist
And such a state would be burglarizationistizedness.Forgive my swearing but Himmelherrgottkreuzmillionendonnerwetter that’s a long word.
The good Cap'n gets a free ride from me: I'm gonna booglarize you baby.:thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiJVac8bCH8
Showed that one to my GerMan and after umming and ahhing a bit he decided it was feasible.And such a state would be burglarizationistizedness.Forgive my swearing but Himmelherrgottkreuzmillionendonnerwetter that’s a long word.
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Showed that one to my GerMan and after umming and ahhing a bit he decided it was feasible.And such a state would be burglarizationistizedness.Forgive my swearing but Himmelherrgottkreuzmillionendonnerwetter that’s a long word.
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-ise often conveys a sense of being transformed into, as in "normalise". There are horror films about people being memorialised in statue form. And I've never understood being "hospitalised". I just want to be treated, not added to the NHS's property stock.
* they have to sex up boring copy with neologisms...
* they have to sex up boring copy with neologisms...
"Do you always give the temperature in degrees Kelvin?""Absolutely.""Yes." :P
Quote
* they have to sex up boring copy with neologisms...
Oi ! - Hoist by your own pétard !
Using 'sex' as a verb !
"Those songs Vera Lynn sung were very strong, very emotional."
Thus Sir Tim Rice on I think BBC World Service honouring her memory whilst
confusing his past and past perfect. Maybe he just does the music and someone else the lyrics ?
No, it's sing -sang -sung
ring - rang -rung !
I'd like it to be swing - swang - swung too
'Tarzan swang through the trees on a liana'
but apparently its usage is 'archaic.'
"Those songs Vera Lynn sung were very strong, very emotional."
Thus Sir Tim Rice on I think BBC World Service honouring her memory whilst
confusing his past and past perfect. Maybe he just does the music and someone else the lyrics ?
No, it's sing -sang -sung
ring - rang -rung !
I'd like it to be swing - swang - swung too
'Tarzan swang through the trees on a liana'
but apparently its usage is 'archaic.'
Yeah, everyone knows these days that they grow up, not down, so using one that way is definitely archaic/fatal.
Miss!
Them last two posts should be in the 'pronunciation' fred!
haha so they should.
I was so ragin I mis posted.
'Everybody replies to my questions the way they think I want them to reply. You can say that I say "everybody-they"; I hate "everybody-he". "Has everybody brought his or her slate?" a teacher of mine, a great goat of a woman, used to ask us. There is no other tongue in the world as clumsy as our is – with its back to certain corners.'The speaker is a character in a short story by James Thurber.
Suggest you 'hit posted', not 'miss posted'....
In all my years of cycling I have never seen a pork pie in a field.
I just purchased liquid dishwashing detergent - described as "gluten free" on the shelf label
Someone has just used the word "criterion". Wow! :D Native language isn't English, of course. :thumbsup:
Someone has just used the word "criterion". Wow! :D Native language isn't English, of course. :thumbsup:About 4 years ago I watched a fly on the wall type TV program about teaching. A young (about 30) teacher bounds into the classroom of young teenagers and declares "I heard something today; i heard "phenomena". That will be the word of the day! I am a phenomena". He repeated this several times. I was mentally screaming at the screen "no you are not. Phenomena is plural, you mean phenomenon" . Hopeless!
Someone has just used the word "criterion". Wow! :D Native language isn't English, of course. :thumbsup:About 4 years ago I watched a fly on the wall type TV program about teaching. A young (about 30) teacher bounds into the classroom of young teenagers and declares "I heard something today; i heard "phenomena". That will be the word of the day! I am a phenomena". He repeated this several times. I was mentally screaming at the screen "no you are not. Phenomena is plural, you mean phenomenon" . Hopeless!
the meetings have been simply a tick boxing exercise
"Tick boxing" ?
In a gentler world it should be possible to charge people to watch that.
Making the verb agree with the noun closest to it instead of the real subject of the sentence seems to be a new epidemic.
Nike footwear packaging.
The job architecture refresh is actually one of the most important pieces of work that reflects this.Doesn't sound any more correct than
The job architecture refresh is actually one of the most important pieces of work that reflect this.In fact, I think it might be less correct, as the subject of "reflect" would seem to be "the most important pieces of work" rather than "the job architecture". TBH, the only way I can sort it out in my mind is to translate it into FOREIGN. :-\ But again, it doesn't sound less correct.
"I like the light basis"
FYI20
QuoteThe job architecture refresh is actually one of the most important pieces of work that reflects this.Doesn't sound any more correct thanQuoteThe job architecture refresh is actually one of the most important pieces of work that reflect this.In fact, I think it might be less correct, as the subject of "reflect" would seem to be "the most important pieces of work" rather than "the job architecture". TBH, the only way I can sort it out in my mind is to translate it into FOREIGN. :-\ But again, it doesn't sound less correct.
QuoteThe job architecture refreshWhy the jargon ? Just call it a toilet flush like everyone else.
I don't think they tried or cared."I like the light basis"
I'd love to know how they parse that into anything that makes even the vaguest sense.
I don't think they tried or cared."I like the light basis"
I'd love to know how they parse that into anything that makes even the vaguest sense.
Just what do you say when The Client tells you "the u looks odd"?
"Yes, it's all Greek to me too..."?
Seen on a buy & sell FB group: "please inbox myself". ???
Bruce Springsteen is on some trailer on Radio 2 saying that he's going to "administer to your soul". I think he means "minister"...
Seen on a buy & sell FB group: "please inbox myself". ???
^^^ 'myself' seems to be on the increase. I think I have 2 or 3 entries in this thread bemoaning my colleagues' usage. The most common one I see at work is,"For more information, please do not hesitate to contact myself." I suspect some of my colleagues think 'myself' is a formal version of 'me'. Even worse is, "Myself and Bob are going to..."Bonus points for "...contact myself going forwards."
It really is one of my pet peeves at work. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
Does this mean "Walking while touching my toes"?^^^ 'myself' seems to be on the increase. I think I have 2 or 3 entries in this thread bemoaning my colleagues' usage. The most common one I see at work is,"For more information, please do not hesitate to contact myself." I suspect some of my colleagues think 'myself' is a formal version of 'me'. Even worse is, "Myself and Bob are going to..."Bonus points for "...contact myself going forwards."
It really is one of my pet peeves at work. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
The pretentious use of "myself" instead of "me" is my least favourite faux - formal.Seen on a buy & sell FB group: "please inbox myself". ???
:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:
You should hear what Americans do to Edinburgh though. I know how the French must feel when they visit Des Moines. (We have never been, ian!)
I once had a long phone conversation with a very Scottish lady from Horseybank's credit card fraud department who substituted “yourself” for “you” 100% of the time. I wot not whether this is a generic Scottishism but if it is it shouldn’t be.
"There is a green hill far away outwith a city wall" Would that be more or less confusing for the kids that sing it (if they still do)?
I wondered how Des Moines is pronounced so checked it out on Wikipedia. Surprised not to hear any S.
I once had a long phone conversation with a very Scottish lady from Horseybank's credit card fraud department who substituted “yourself” for “you” 100% of the time. I wot not whether this is a generic Scottishism but if it is it shouldn’t be.
I once corrected every "outwith" in a procedure written by a Scot, nowadays I dinnae bother, it's just the way they talk
Outwith is a perfectly cromulent word.I once had a long phone conversation with a very Scottish lady from Horseybank's credit card fraud department who substituted “yourself” for “you” 100% of the time. I wot not whether this is a generic Scottishism but if it is it shouldn’t be.
I once corrected every "outwith" in a procedure written by a Scot, nowadays I dinnae bother, it's just the way they talk
without = lacking
outwith = outside
is my understanding, and there is no interchangeability or venn diagram alignment?
without = lacking
outwith = outside
is my understanding, and there is no interchangeability or venn diagram alignment?
As noted earlier, without in place names and trad carols means outside.
There is no semantic distinction, any more than there is between 'built in' and the modish 'inbuilt'.
But the classic carol line "... without a city wall ..." means outside too.Hymn, shirley?
But the classic carol line "... without a city wall ..." means outside too.That's a good example of the word being used in that way.
Ah good point. Shows how much time I spend in church.But the classic carol line "... without a city wall ..." means outside too.Hymn, shirley?
There is a green hill far away
Without a city wall ect ect
Pretty sure Number 153 isn’t a carol, at least in the Christmassy sense, since the lyrical theme appears to be the DETH of J Christ rather than his birth, plus some guff about sin. No shepherds, wise men, donkeys, turkeys, fairy lights or pine trees at all :demon:
"There is a green hill far away outwith a city wall" Would that be more or less confusing for the kids that sing it (if they still do)?
If we're going to be really pedantic, then a carol is (I think) a song sung by different people starting from the same line but at a different time. Associated with Christmas but doesn't technically have to be. Wowbagger will probably know...
It is an old hymn. Their ideas of suitable language for children and ours are rather different..."There is a green hill far away outwith a city wall" Would that be more or less confusing for the kids that sing it (if they still do)?
I think this should be 'outside the city wall'. Much more the language of an English 5 year old.
Anyway, surely being befuddled by the weird language and spelling mistakes in hims(sic) is an important part of growing up and being BRITISH?
As written by Pachelbel, famously. Thanks for the correction. :thumbsup:If we're going to be really pedantic, then a carol is (I think) a song sung by different people starting from the same line but at a different time. Associated with Christmas but doesn't technically have to be. Wowbagger will probably know...
Carol was originally to be danced. There are carols for many occasions (see Oxford Book Of Carols). What you are describing is caNON, or round - a simple sort of fugue.
As written by Pachelbel, famously.
It really annoys me when people hyphenate prepositional verbs. "I'll pick-up the rest tomorrow" or "We had to write-off the bad debt". >:(
"HIGH RISK CRASH ROUTE", as featured on assorted, largely redundant, road signs.Does that mean this drug is a route to a risk of crashing while high? ;D
Shouldn't that be "HIGH CRASH RISK ROUTE"?
"HIGH RISK CRASH ROUTE", as featured on assorted, largely redundant, road signs.
Shouldn't that be "HIGH CRASH RISK ROUTE"?
I certainly wasn't aware Barakta had any language impairment other than, obviously, deafness.
Similarly, failure to correctly apply negation, so she'll say the exact opposite of what she means. In both cases, she won't 'hear' that she's done it and correct herself as you or I might. Happens more frequently in speech, but sometimes creeps into her writing when tired.Someone was saying (in writing) something the other day about "being prosecuted for driving with undue care and attention." ;D
Although solar geoengineering would theoretically be able to lower temperature rise,...Ugh!
This will not be delivered today as planned. Our tech team have made arrangements for correctivations today, we will ensure to keep you updated
QuoteThis will not be delivered today as planned. Our tech team have made arrangements for correctivations today, we will ensure to keep you updated
I heard 'infuriations' on the radio the other day. As opposed to 'fury'.
Good point. Annoyingly I can't remember the exact context.I heard 'infuriations' on the radio the other day. As opposed to 'fury'.
I think I love that even more than correctivations. Surely the meaning is slightly different to fury though? I would take it to mean 'instances of being infuriated', so a quantifiable noun rather than the unquantifiable 'fury'.
Correctivations = corrective actions autocarrotted, no?
QuoteThis will not be delivered today as planned. Our tech team have made arrangements for correctivations today, we will ensure to keep you updated
There is so much wrong with that that "correctivations" has to struggle to get to the top/bottom of the pile. I'm staggered that so many techies manage to reach puberty and breed.
I would take infuriation to mean something that infuriates.
Where can I get a wine box like that?Correctivations = corrective actions autocarrotted, no?
I think so.QuoteThis will not be delivered today as planned. Our tech team have made arrangements for correctivations today, we will ensure to keep you updated
There is so much wrong with that that "correctivations" has to struggle to get to the top/bottom of the pile. I'm staggered that so many techies manage to reach puberty and breed.
This is nothing technical. Well. Big scale technical. There is a shipping container with torn sides sitting in South Shields now waiting for 24,000 litres of pinot noir to be pumped into a tank, as they can't move the damaged container off the dock without risk of the internal bag tearing.
Given my replacement for this bastardisation was 'fury', I'm thinking that the context must have been something along the lines of "The infuriation of having to deal with ..."I would take infuriation to mean something that infuriates.
I considered that as another possible meaning. But as you say, it depends on context.
I heard 'infuriations' on the radio the other day. As opposed to 'fury'.
I think I love that even more than correctivations. Surely the meaning is slightly different to fury though? I would take it to mean 'instances of being infuriated', so a quantifiable noun rather than the unquantifiable 'fury'.
QuoteThis will not be delivered today as planned. Our tech team have made arrangements for correctivations today, we will ensure to keep you updated
There is so much wrong with that that "correctivations" has to struggle to get to the top/bottom of the pile. I'm staggered that so many techies manage to reach puberty and breed.
No space after commas and full stops.
Also, in light of fboab's elaboration, have you noticed that everyone who does the actual work is a technician these days? Apart from technicans, who are engineers.Aye.
Love it. Correctivations is now my word of the day.That sounds distinctly like "French English". Working with many french people (whose English is generally excellent) there are some interesting words used quite regularly. Probably "plannification" is top of the list although I think my favourite is the verb "complexify". When I was spending more time the other side of the channel and listening to more of this I started to use some of them myself...
QuoteThis will not be delivered today as planned. Our tech team have made arrangements for correctivations today, we will ensure to keep you updated
There is so much wrong with that that "correctivations" has to struggle to get to the top/bottom of the pile. I'm staggered that so many techies manage to reach puberty and breed.
To be fair to the tech team, they're evidently not the ones writing that.
Also, in light of fboab's elaboration, have you noticed that everyone who does the actual work is a technician these days? Apart from technicans, who are engineers.
When people do that on this forum (and others) I tend to not bother reading them.No space after commas and full stops.
I follow someone on twitter who does this. And not in a deliberately committing crimes against typesetting in order to squeeze another word in http://t.co/eiGoo9Vo (http://t.co/eiGoo9Vo) wouldn't bother me,
This. With a tribute-nod to the Pratchettism "embuggerance".I heard 'infuriations' on the radio the other day. As opposed to 'fury'.
I think I love that even more than correctivations. Surely the meaning is slightly different to fury though? I would take it to mean 'instances of being infuriated', so a quantifiable noun rather than the unquantifiable 'fury'.
Also, in light of fboab's elaboration, have you noticed that everyone who does the actual work is a technician these days? Apart from technicans, who are engineers.Back in 1988, a company I worked for announced a new major product. It was reported in the newspaper that this was the work of "computer technicians". We could not possibly be called engineers because they worked in the design office (drawing office to us old folks) and had been on strike recently, as reported in the newspaper "engineers strike at A Company".
This. With a tribute-nod to the Pratchettism "embuggerance".I heard 'infuriations' on the radio the other day. As opposed to 'fury'.
I think I love that even more than correctivations. Surely the meaning is slightly different to fury though? I would take it to mean 'instances of being infuriated', so a quantifiable noun rather than the unquantifiable 'fury'.
Meanwhile, Neal Stephenson seems to be under the impression that a sojourn is a journey. It ain't, it's a short stay somewhere. See The System of the World, page something or other (there's a lot of them and ICBA looking). I've seen this in other American books too. Maybe Webster embuggered it.
Though both journey and sojourn have the same root as the French journée, false friend that it is.Meanwhile, Neal Stephenson seems to be under the impression that a sojourn is a journey. It ain't, it's a short stay somewhere. See The System of the World, page something or other (there's a lot of them and ICBA looking). I've seen this in other American books too. Maybe Webster embuggered it.
I've come across that one as well. It's irritating. And what's the French for journey? Travail, of course.
And it makes me think of manateeIf you get an award for mentoring, it's a dugong.
You horble GIT Cudzo! You maek Unit snort brown drink down nose!My day is complete.
You horble GIT Cudzo! You maek Unit snort brown drink down nose!My day is complete.
I feel like the chum-ladler in a shark hot-spot. A colleague received this from someone she has agreed to mentor:That looks a bit like the overly formal English common in India. Excusable for a second language but if it's someone who's grown up speaking English, they should be
"I believe I have been assigned as your mentee, of which, I am extremely beholden by."
Feed away.
You horble GIT Cudzo! You maek Unit snort brown drink down nose!My day is complete.
Do it again, Cudzo. ;D
I feel like the chum-ladler in a shark hot-spot. A colleague received this from someone she has agreed to mentor:
"I believe I have been assigned as your mentee, of which, I am extremely beholden by."
Feed away.
"A major causation of road accidents here is drivers from Zetland Road turning right into Redland Road failing to see drivers/cyclists from South Road."From the council's highway engineers, as quoted in the local paper.
without = lacking
outwith = outside
is my understanding, and there is no interchangeability or venn diagram alignment?
As noted earlier, without in place names and trad carols means outside.
There is no semantic distinction, any more than there is between 'built in' and the modish 'inbuilt'.
without = lacking
outwith = outside
is my understanding, and there is no interchangeability or venn diagram alignment?
As noted earlier, without in place names and trad carols means outside.
There is no semantic distinction, any more than there is between 'built in' and the modish 'inbuilt'.
Which is why Thannington Without in Canterbury is the Thannington outside the city walls, and differentiates it from the Thannington within that is inside the walls.
It also has the bonus of allowing people to graffiti witty things on the sign below it. "Thannington Without Money" is a popular amendment to the sign...
J
The only time I can recall being there it was lacking a pub.
There's a TV series on UK TV at the moment called "Britain's Most Historic Towns"
And because I've watched too much West Wing, it always jars.
Something is either historic, or it is not, there is no graduation. Same for Unique. Something is either unique or it isn't. It can't be very unique.
Argh. Why do they persist in this appalling English?
J
I'd be more exercised about some of the "Towns" being cities.
There's a TV series on UK TV at the moment called "Britain's Most Historic Towns"
And because I've watched too much West Wing, it always jars.
Something is either historic, or it is not, there is no graduation. Same for Unique. Something is either unique or it isn't. It can't be very unique.
Argh. Why do they persist in this appalling English?
J
Something is either historic, or it is not, there is no graduation.
But learning how to preserve grapes by drying them, several thousand years ago, was a historic currant event.Something is either historic, or it is not, there is no graduation.
The name of the programme is a bit clunky (which fits with the content, based on the episode I half watched), but I don't agree with this bit.
'Historic' means more than just 'happened in the past' - because after all, not every past event is deemed worthy of being recorded in the history books. There's an element of fame (or infamy) and importance implied.
Even without that distinction, is there not also a chronological element? An event that happened last week might be considered less historic than one that happened a thousand years ago. Given that the series is looking at towns where momentous events occurred in the past, I think it's much more acceptable in this case than the normal everyday lazy hack usage you see so often, where any vaguely important current event is described as 'historic'.
That Cudzo - always raisin the bar.But learning how to preserve grapes by drying them, several thousand years ago, was a historic currant event.Something is either historic, or it is not, there is no graduation.
The name of the programme is a bit clunky (which fits with the content, based on the episode I half watched), but I don't agree with this bit.
'Historic' means more than just 'happened in the past' - because after all, not every past event is deemed worthy of being recorded in the history books. There's an element of fame (or infamy) and importance implied.
Even without that distinction, is there not also a chronological element? An event that happened last week might be considered less historic than one that happened a thousand years ago. Given that the series is looking at towns where momentous events occurred in the past, I think it's much more acceptable in this case than the normal everyday lazy hack usage you see so often, where any vaguely important current event is described as 'historic'.
I'll get my coat...
But learning how to preserve grapes by drying them, several thousand years ago, was a historic currant event.
Something is either historic, or it is not, there is no graduation.
The name of the programme is a bit clunky (which fits with the content, based on the episode I half watched), but I don't agree with this bit.
'Historic' means more than just 'happened in the past' - because after all, not every past event is deemed worthy of being recorded in the history books. There's an element of fame (or infamy) and importance implied.
Even without that distinction, is there not also a chronological element? An event that happened last week might be considered less historic than one that happened a thousand years ago. Given that the series is looking at towns where momentous events occurred in the past, I think it's much more acceptable in this case than the normal everyday lazy hack usage you see so often, where any vaguely important current event is described as 'historic'.
I'd be more exercised about some of the "Towns" being cities.
There's a TV series on UK TV at the moment called "Britain's Most Historic Towns"
And because I've watched too much West Wing, it always jars.
Something is either historic, or it is not, there is no graduation. Same for Unique. Something is either unique or it isn't. It can't be very unique.
Argh. Why do they persist in this appalling English?
J
If I could be arsed; I don't do exercise.
Mainstream historians don't give a fig about the development of agriculture.But learning how to preserve grapes by drying them, several thousand years ago, was a historic currant event.
I missed that one - they must have pruned down the history books to only include the most important dates.
In the UK, "city" means it has a royal charter and a cathedral. Anywhere else it means it's got a McDonald's and a Starbucks - which, frankly, are a hell of a lot more useful.<pedant>No. It just needs the charter. Southampton is a city, no cathedral. Guildford is a town, but has a cathedral. Cambridge is a city due to the university, not a cathedral. The rule of thumb is: city - cathedral or university, town - market, village - church, hamlet - anything else, but there are exceptions to all of these. But towns and cities, historically at least, need charters.
Portsmouth is a city and has two. That must do wonders for the Southampton/Portsmouth rivalry.In the UK, "city" means it has a royal charter and a cathedral. Anywhere else it means it's got a McDonald's and a Starbucks - which, frankly, are a hell of a lot more useful.<pedant>No. It just needs the charter. Southampton is a city, no cathedral.
Portsmouth is a city and has two.
Catholic cathedrals don't count--has to be CofE
You can add Nottingham to the list.Catholic cathedrals don't count--has to be CofE
Interesting. That would never have occurred to me. But it got me wondering if there are any UK towns/cities that have an RC cathedral but not an Anglican one...
Google has so far turned up Aldershot.
It's a royal charter, so it has to be the royal religion.
And Lancaster.But it got me wondering if there are any UK towns/cities that have an RC cathedral but not an Anglican one...You can add Nottingham to the list.
Google has so far turned up Aldershot.
I know Clifton cathedral but never realised it was designated Clifton rather than Bristol. I expect many of the residents would like to be dissociated from the rest of Bristol, but it's a bit of a cheek!They probably would, but I doubt that was going through the mind of the Catholic hierarchy back in the 19th century! I've no idea why it's not just designated Bristol.
I've no idea why it's not just designated Bristol.
I've no idea why it's not just designated Bristol.When Catholics were allowed to have a hierarchy in the UK again, mid-nineteenth century1, part of the agreement was that no RC diocese would have the same name as a CofE one. That is no longer the case (Portsmouth as quoted up thread being an example).
Ah! A reason that makes sense! Thanks.I've no idea why it's not just designated Bristol.When Catholics were allowed to have a hierarchy in the UK again, mid-nineteenth century1, part of the agreement was that no RC diocese would have the same name as a CofE one.
And Lancaster.But it got me wondering if there are any UK towns/cities that have an RC cathedral but not an Anglican one...You can add Nottingham to the list.
Google has so far turned up Aldershot.
And Arundel.And Lancaster.But it got me wondering if there are any UK towns/cities that have an RC cathedral but not an Anglican one...You can add Nottingham to the list.
Google has so far turned up Aldershot.
...and Leeds. The RC Cathedral on Great George St. has been designated such for many years, but the CofE Leeds Parish Church on Kirkgate has only recently been renamed Leeds Minster.
...and Leeds. The RC Cathedral on Great George St. has been designated such for many years, but the CofE Leeds Parish Church on Kirkgate has only recently been renamed Leeds Minster.
There's a TV series on UK TV at the moment called "Britain's Most Historic Towns"
There's a TV series on UK TV at the moment called "Britain's Most Historic Towns"
At least the series is not called "Britain's Historickest Towns"
Not really grammar but I really don't like it when technical terms are a mixture of Latin and Greek.
Not really grammar but I really don't like it when technical terms are a mixture of Latin and Greek.
David gave a talk on the Society for Popular Astronomy's live lockdown show this evening He was in a shed so we couldn't communicate directly. He points out the dark patch on Mars, known as the Mare Erythraeum and knows mare = sea (Latin) but is stuck on erythraeum (Greek, Latinised).
I posted in the 'Chat'...
According to my dictionary historic means “famous or important in history”. Nothing wrong with some towns being historicer, meaning famouser or importanter than others.This is why I am troubled by the word used in front of "sex crimes". :-\
Now “Britain’s Most Hysteric Towns”, I’d watch that.
There's a TV series on UK TV at the moment called "Britain's Most Historic Towns"
At least the series is not called "Britain's Historicest Towns"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythraean_Sea
According to my dictionary historic means “famous or important in history”. Nothing wrong with some towns being historicer, meaning famouser or importanter than others.This is why I am troubled by the word used in front of "sex crimes". :-\
'Historic' means more than just 'happened in the past' - because after all, not every past event is deemed worthy of being recorded in the history books. There's an element of fame (or infamy) and importance implied.
I like the idea of the name being Latinized-Greekified Tamil though!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythraean_Sea
Given that an erythrocyte is a red blood cell and we docs use the term a fair bit, I didn't need to look anything up...
'Unbeknownst'
How has this ugly, unwieldy archaicism endured? It conveys no meaning that is not contained within the perfectly functional everyday word 'unknown' in half as many syllables. I can't think of an instance I have ever encountered where 'unbeknownst' could not be replaced with 'unknown'.
Locution verbale dérivée de l'anglais. Employés en athlétisme, les startings blocks désignent un appareil où les pieds des sprinteurs sont disposés, de façon à pouvoir réagir immédiatement après le top départ. Par extension, cette expression signifie qu'une personne se tient à l'affût pour réagir le plus vite possible après un signal.http://www.linternaute.fr/expression/langue-francaise/14434/etre-dans-les-starting-blocks/
'Unbeknownst'
How has this ugly, unwieldy archaicism endured? It conveys no meaning that is not contained within the perfectly functional everyday word 'unknown' in half as many syllables. I can't think of an instance I have ever encountered where 'unbeknownst' could not be replaced with 'unknown'.
"Taxonomy" carries an implication of the structure being composed of meaningful words. Classification systems can be )alpha-numerical or otherwise devoid of inherent meanings. I started working on taxonomies and classification systems as a young information scientist, but find them still important now in Web sites.
However, I'm not convinced that "taxonomise" is itself a meaningful word. I'm not sure how you could convert something into a taxonomy if it were not one in the first place. Unless of course the speaker were confusing the items that were being classified with the taxonomy structure itself, and suggesting that the former were being "taxonomised". But that's rather the same point as about "hospitalisation" which, logically, does not mean "being taken to hospital", but "being converted into a hospital."
"Taxonomy" carries an implication of the structure being composed of meaningful words. Classification systems can be )alpha-numerical or otherwise devoid of inherent meanings. I started working on taxonomies and classification systems as a young information scientist, but find them still important now in Web sites.
However, I'm not convinced that "taxonomise" is itself a meaningful word. I'm not sure how you could convert something into a taxonomy if it were not one in the first place. Unless of course the speaker were confusing the items that were being classified with the taxonomy structure itself, and suggesting that the former were being "taxonomised". But that's rather the same point as about "hospitalisation" which, logically, does not mean "being taken to hospital", but "being converted into a hospital."
In a wee while hospitalize will also mean go to hospital, as the passive is gradually ironed out of the language. "Where's Fred?" "Oh, he hospitalized with the Rona". A bit after that he'll be crematorializing. Of course, he might avoid all that byvaccinatingvaccinationalizing.
he might avoid all that byvaccinatingvaccinationalizing.
FTFY :demon:
Vacci-nationalizing: appointing a state cow.he might avoid all that byvaccinatingvaccinationalizing.
FTFY :demon:
IRTA vacci-nationalizing rather than vaccination-alizing and thought that at least there's a place for the NHS ...
"Taxonomy" carries an implication of the structure being composed of meaningful words. Classification systems can be )alpha-numerical or otherwise devoid of inherent meanings. I started working on taxonomies and classification systems as a young information scientist, but find them still important now in Web sites.
However, I'm not convinced that "taxonomise" is itself a meaningful word. I'm not sure how you could convert something into a taxonomy if it were not one in the first place. Unless of course the speaker were confusing the items that were being classified with the taxonomy structure itself, and suggesting that the former were being "taxonomised". But that's rather the same point as about "hospitalisation" which, logically, does not mean "being taken to hospital", but "being converted into a hospital."
In a wee while hospitalize will also mean go to hospital, as the passive is gradually ironed out of the language. "Where's Fred?" "Oh, he hospitalized with the Rona". A bit after that he'll be crematorializing. Of course, he might avoid all that byvaccinatingvaccinationalizingvaccinationalizating.
FTFY :demon:
In a wee while hospitalize will also mean go to hospital, as the passive is gradually ironed out of the language.It's not about the active and passive voice; it's about the subject and object of verbs, in particular nouns constructed from verbs. If I normalise, then I am taking something else and making it fit the norm. The something is normalised, because it's the object of the verb. I can use a passive construction, but the roles of actor and target of the action are not changed. The same is true with standardising, and so on.
Mount Everest was thought to be 8,848,86 metres before the new measurement.Mixed Anglo-Euro punctuation in a caption from the Gurniad.
QuoteMount Everest was thought to be 8,848,86 metres before the new measurement.Mixed Anglo-Euro punctuation in a caption from the Gurniad.
According to the report, the fire started on October 20 and burned uncontrolled for three days, effectively destroying the entire factory, which products various audio chip components used by ‘most Japanese camera makers.’
They were busy wrecking havoc this morning ...
Not just havoc but wrecking the havoc must be really wreaking havoc! I hope they were not all sweaty and reeking after their wrecking.
Gifting has already been done, and you're as wrong as everyone else in this thread, so you don't get a prize.Much less a gift.
Always been a “wrought”. “Wreaked” sets my teeth on edge.
DHL Track Your Parcel webs site say mine is "at sortation facility"
Is sortation even a word ?
No, it's when 'or' crashes into 'station'.Guffaw!
Tailfin increases versatility with modularly designed Cargo CageTailfin, quite appropriate. Or rather, a headline in road.cc about Tailfin. You can't say it's actually grammatically wrong but it certainly is clumsy. Wouldn't "...modular Cargo Cage design" sound better?
"We share information on a need-to-know basis." Okay.
"You need-to-know that I am a committed staff member." Ouch! No!
I initially read that sentence as the arrested man had been carrying both the lectern and the man with the horns.
Councillors hope that traffic caused by the level crossing in Ash will be eased in future after approving a plan to build a road bridge over the railway.https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/level-crossing-ash-station-replaced-19601746
"A lot of work was around defining that scope boundary as to what it is, and that was a clear area where there was no clarity... "
;D
I imagine we've already had this but I don't get out much.
Was in the NatWest the other day for a standard forty minute wait. Looking around, I noticed the 6 foot distance stickers on the floor and the huge printed placards by the cash machines exhorting customers to "practice social distancing". I pointed out jocularly to a clerk that practice is practise when it's a verb. None of the clerks seemed sure, so one went to see the manager who confirmed and said that I was the first person to notice (but no cigar - or overdraft). So, I'm guessing that one of our major banks has furnished every single branch in Britain with these notices. Is NatWest now actually American and we haven't been told?
Please, nobody come back and say this is now cool and an accepted alternative because YOU ARE WRONG AND ALWAYS WILL BE!
I've remembered since primary 7 that practICE is the noun, just like ICE is a noun.
Or just move to the US where it's, erm, always (noun and verb) practice but also always license.I was going to say, 'And yet they all seem to understand each other despite these solecisms', but probably now is not the best of times to make that point.
and if US English spelling really is more logical and consistent,:D :D :D :D :D :D
If we're doing Americanisms v Britishisms, I'll declare my preference for -ize over -ise. It just looks better to me. Probably because I grew up reading Puffins and Penguins and other followers of OED-type spelling. So when people say they want "British spellings" I know they mean -ise instead of -ize and I give them that – even though they're wrong!
British in origin, yes, but nowadays when people say "British English" they tend to mean -ise instead of -ize as well as -our instead of -or. Occasionally they're bothered about date formats (19th January or January 19th) but only very rarely about phrases or words which are distinct to one or other variety.If we're doing Americanisms v Britishisms, I'll declare my preference for -ize over -ise. It just looks better to me. Probably because I grew up reading Puffins and Penguins and other followers of OED-type spelling. So when people say they want "British spellings" I know they mean -ise instead of -ize and I give them that – even though they're wrong!
AIUI both spellings are British. English was all -ize until Dr. Sam'l Halitosis Johnson decided that such endings were of French origin, and since in French only -ise is used we should use it in English too. So unless you're a Johnsonite, -ize is correct except in words whose roots contain ise or an ancestral form thereof, e.g. excise from Latin excidere, excisum to cut out.
My bugbear is ... Noah Webster
He actually proposed many more exciting changes to spelling to which everyone else said 'I don't think so, Noah.'
Having lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
Having lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
Having lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
See also the urban legend about Yorkshire folk getting run down on level crossings: “Wait while lights are flashing”.
Having lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
Having lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
See also the urban legend about Yorkshire folk getting run down on level crossings: “Wait while lights are flashing”.
Having lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
I resemble that remark!! :-D :-DHaving lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
Having lived in The People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I reckon it's a pretty good idea to never use 'while', either.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...
Or the Irish habit of using “bring” for “take”.
Graun headline the other day mentioned "two National Guard troops" being chucked out of the Inauguration patrol. Thought bloody hell, that's a lot, but it turned out they just meant troopers. Twats.Yebbut it's the Graun. You're lucky they didn't call them troops. :)
The pig had lied down in its sty but got stuck in the mud could not get herself up," crew manager Lewis Black said.
Graun headline the other day mentioned "two National Guard troops" being chucked out of the Inauguration patrol. Thought bloody hell, that's a lot, but it turned out they just meant troopers. Twats.
West Yorkshire's habit of using 'while' to mean 'until' is confusing...Funnily enough, two colleagues from Yorkshire (I was also born in Leeds) just did that in a meeting of my London-based employer:
Movistar Team, one of the most successful and storied teams on the UCI World Tour, need no introduction
What the fuck is storied?It is good old English. Admittedly not often used in these days of txt spk. Means a long or interesting history. In this case, your marketing person comment is probably near the truth.
I'm not sure if this is grammar, me not knowing some pro cycling term, or some marketing person just writing shite.
That's perfectly correct usage, assuming the Movistar team has ended a long and celebrated history as a team on the UCI World Tour.
That's perfectly correct usage, assuming the Movistar team has ended a long and celebrated history as a team on the UCI World Tour.
It is correct usage, in a deliberately obscure Anthony Burgess-type of way, but I expect it's a typo and they meant to write "stoned".
Come on, we should use betterer words.
The paramount objective, was to stop them doing that, to cause them to pause and think.There's a bit of a trend to put commas between subjects and verbs whenever the subject is more than one word. It, annoys me a lot. I, am grumbling about this.
A comma can be used to indicate a pause, possibly for dramatic effect. I, am happy with that.QuoteThe paramount objective, was to stop them doing that, to cause them to pause and think.There's a bit of a trend to put commas between subjects and verbs whenever the subject is more than one word. It, annoys me a lot. I, am grumbling about this.
(From an interview with Wrong Hammond linked to by Mrs Pingu: https://ukandeu.ac.uk/interview-pdf/?personid=42190)
Peddling for pedalling - as in latest CTC magazine. If it's a pun it's certainly not clear from the article; readers are just going to think they can't spell. Pace if I've missed something - it happens!
It's picked up since then, but now the week-on-week increase is only incremental."
Graun headline this morning: "Khashoggi was killed in cold-blood". Ignorant-hyphen-idiots are putting gratuitous-hyphen-hyphens in everywhere these-hyphen-days. :facepalm:
Graun headline this morning: "Khashoggi was killed in cold-blood". Ignorant-hyphen-idiots are putting gratuitous-hyphen-hyphens in everywhere these-hyphen-days. :facepalm:
Pig-ignorant.
Graun headline this morning: "Khashoggi was killed in cold-blood". Ignorant-hyphen-idiots are putting gratuitous-hyphen-hyphens in everywhere these-hyphen-days. :facepalm:
Pig-ignorant.
Graun headline this morning: "Khashoggi was killed in cold-blood". Ignorant-hyphen-idiots are putting gratuitous-hyphen-hyphens in everywhere these-hyphen-days. :facepalm:
Pig-ignorant.
If that's from the Graun, they were probably trying to write "pig-iron gnat".
I thought she was leader of the SNP?is......
Normally “cold-blooded” is hyphenated but not “in cold blood” which is odd.
“He was drowned in cold blood” could be ambiguous.
He was drowned cold bloodedly ?Normally “cold-blooded” is hyphenated but not “in cold blood” which is odd.
Fwiw, the first is an adjective, the second an adverb. I think a hyphen would look odd in the latter.Quote“He was drowned in cold blood” could be ambiguous.
True.
He was drowned cold bloodedly ?
Language is like that.
And "high-power networks" means networks carrying high power (high modifies power),Or networks of high power (as in corridors – a word whose spelling always looks curious to me*) not that it makes much difference.
You provision a ship before it sets sail, for example.And add a bit extra for just in case it gets stuck en-route.
The government must double the pensions of everyone with a Q in their surname.
OK, I know, you can verb any noun. Here's two I read/heard recently: provision, maintainence.
OK, I know, you can verb any noun. Here's two I read/heard recently: provision, maintainence.
Podium. :facepalm:
"To provision" has been around for ages, meaning "to supply with provisions". You provision a ship before it sets sail, for example.
That, along with “medal”, has been around at least since the Beijing Olympics. This is not an excuse, BTW. Nor is the fact that Victoria Pendleton once said it.
That, along with “medal”, has been around at least since the Beijing Olympics. This is not an excuse, BTW. Nor is the fact that Victoria Pendleton once said it.
It serves a purpose:
I came 4th in the egg and spoon race but would have won if it hadn't been for those medalling kids.
"To provision" has been around for ages, meaning "to supply with provisions". You provision a ship before it sets sail, for example.
The verb "must" seems to be changing its meaning. When I were young, it meant something that you didn't really have any option over doing. Now, it seems to mean something that I'd really like you to do, but know perfectly well you won't, as in every second news report lately of impassioned pleas from campaigners earnestly saying things such as:QuoteThe government must double the pensions of everyone with a Q in their surname.
Surely, for complete reprehensibility, that should have read : -
I came 4th in the egg and spoon race but would have podiumed if it hadn't been for those medalling kids.
Or even every football pundit now where the stock phrase is "he must score there" as opposed to "he really should have scored there".TFL's exhortation at the top and bottom of every escalator that "Dogs must be carried" is worth a mention too.
TFL's exhortation at the top and bottom of every escalator that "Dogs must be carried" is worth a mention too.I seem to remember that features in one of the Paddington films.
Or even every football pundit now where the stock phrase is "he must score there" as opposed to "he really should have scored there".TFL's exhortation at the top and bottom of every escalator that "Dogs must be carried" is worth a mention too.
Who the hell hyphenates a phrase like this? "Budgets were offset by a month generally-speaking." I wish this were an April fool but no, just a writing fool. :oThere's a missing comma, as well.
Perhaps the intent was to say that it was necessary for the player to score (in order not lose).Or even every football pundit now where the stock phrase is "he must score there" as opposed to "he really should have scored there".TFL's exhortation at the top and bottom of every escalator that "Dogs must be carried" is worth a mention too.
Must is for giving orders and advice, or expressing obligation. "Dogs must be carried" is an example of giving an order. I've got nothing on the "must score there" if it's being used to refer to something that has already happened. It can only be used for present and future circumstances. Unless the commentator is watching the game on replay, is treating it as if it is happening in real time (not strictly grammatically correct, but it's a valid stylistic choice for dramatic purposes), and is exhorting the player to make a successful shot at the goal (in the sense of, "the opportunity is wide open, he must score there if we are to consider his skillset equal to his having a place on this team"), it's just weird.
It can also be used to speculate about the truth of something, but I don't think that's what's happening in the football example.
Sam
Good analysis there. Which makes me realise that use of this phrase only really grates when it is being deployed after the event, eg in the post-match summary.Or even every football pundit now where the stock phrase is "he must score there" as opposed to "he really should have scored there".TFL's exhortation at the top and bottom of every escalator that "Dogs must be carried" is worth a mention too.
Must is for giving orders and advice, or expressing obligation. "Dogs must be carried" is an example of giving an order. I've got nothing on the "must score there" if it's being used to refer to something that has already happened. It can only be used for present and future circumstances. Unless the commentator is watching the game on replay, is treating it as if it is happening in real time (not strictly grammatically correct, but it's a valid stylistic choice for dramatic purposes), and is exhorting the player to make a successful shot at the goal (in the sense of, "the opportunity is wide open, he must score there if we are to consider his skillset equal to his having a place on this team"), it's just weird.
It can also be used to speculate about the truth of something, but I don't think that's what's happening in the football example.
Sam
It can also be used to speculate about the truth of something
eg: "You must be fun at parties":demon:
;)
I don't go to parties because I have crippling social anxiety, as well as a weird form of synaesthesia that makes the noise feel like being in a jaccuzzi filled with rocks.
That said, if someone held a party for grammar pedants to sit around with drinks and snacks to gripe about their pet hates in a mutually supportive environment before squeezing back into their respective "language is dynamic and evolving, and prescriptivism is classist and ableist" outfits, I'd be there.
Yet another one of those selfdrivingcrashing cars https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-56602502
Yet another one of those selfdrivingcrashing cars https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-56602502
House in collision with a car.
Not so much grammar, but radio interviewees; when introduced, they say; "Thanks for having me".
Not so much grammar, but radio interviewees; when introduced, they say; "Thanks for having me".
Tautology is a pleonasm, therefore a question (not necessarily a failure) of style, not grammar.
Best Sellers in Rhetoric. #1. The Ultimate Dad Joke Book
Hmm, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that, but google tells me it was The Elements of Eloquence by Mark Forsyth
Tautology is a pleonasm, therefore a question (not necessarily a failure) of style, not grammar.
I don’t think I’ve come across that term before. Useful.
Hmm, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that, but google tells me it was The Elements of Eloquence by Mark ForsythI have the box set of The Elements of Eloquence, The Etymologicon, and The Horologicon on one of my bookshelves, nestled comfortably between The Penguin Dictionary of Language and Attack of the Copula Spiders.
Pleonasm = overuse of more words than is necessary.I see what you did there.
Pleonasm = overuse of more words than is necessary.I see what you did there.
Pleonasm = overuse of more words than is necessary.I see what you did there.
Me too also as well.
Oh, that Mark Forsyth... I read the Etymologicon. Found it very irritating... <checks notes> main complaint was that it read like it was all cribbed off wikipedia, with no primary research (which the author confesses to). Interesting but superficial. I have the Horologicon on my Kindle but have never got round to reading it.
For matters of rhetoric, I've always found the Silva Rhetoricae website a good source:
http://rhetoric.byu.edu
On pleonasm, I have a vague recollection of reading the phrase "pleonastic orgy" but a quick google doesn't turn up a source for that.
Is it just me who thinks “pleonasm” ought to be an ailment afflicting the lungs then ???Do we need a Meaning of Liff thread somewhere? Or is there one already?
Is it just me who thinks “pleonasm” ought to be an ailment afflicting the lungs then ???Do we need a Meaning of Liff thread somewhere? Or is there one already?
Sam
£782.99 on Amazon - used hardback. :oHmm, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that, but google tells me it was The Elements of Eloquence by Mark ForsythI have the box set of The Elements of Eloquence, The Etymologicon, and The Horologicon on one of my bookshelves, nestled comfortably between The Penguin Dictionary of Language and Attack of the Copula Spiders.
Sam
"Derek Chauvin the former white police officer."
Heard several times last week. Heard again tonight by the BBC.
JFC WHAT? Surely some mistake?£782.99 on Amazon - used hardback. :oHmm, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that, but google tells me it was The Elements of Eloquence by Mark ForsythI have the box set of The Elements of Eloquence, The Etymologicon, and The Horologicon on one of my bookshelves, nestled comfortably between The Penguin Dictionary of Language and Attack of the Copula Spiders.
Sam
Paperback set £16.99.
The Royal Order of Adjectives specifies the categories in order:"Derek Chauvin the former white police officer."
Heard several times last week. Heard again tonight by the BBC.
"White former" sounds a bit awkward too. And if you put "sacked" in place of "former" you get "sacked white police officer" which to my ear sounds OK. "White sacked police officer" sounds as if someone's been painting his nethers.
They'd have done better with "ex-police officer". Oh well.
Hi Amy,
Hope you are well? ...
In a groundbreaking ruling, the judges of the Karlsruhe court, Germany’s highest, said the government now had until the end of next year to improve its Climate Protection Act, passed in 2019, and to ensure it met 2030 greenhouse gas reduction goals more immediately.Next time I'm late with something I'll say "I did it immediately, but less immediately".
Punctuation that makes me cringe -Somebody somewhere has told 'people' of a certain age (they're always in their 20s) that professional emails should start with a health enquiry.Quote from: Random PRHi Amy,
Hope you are well? ...
Yes, I do hope I am well!
The unnecessary question mark makes it read more like a threat than a polite enquiry after my health.
PS my name is not Amy. Except at weekends.
Punctuation that makes me cringe -Somebody somewhere has told 'people' of a certain age (they're always in their 20s) that professional emails should start with a health enquiry.Quote from: Random PRHi Amy,
Hope you are well? ...
Yes, I do hope I am well!
The unnecessary question mark makes it read more like a threat than a polite enquiry after my health.
PS my name is not Amy. Except at weekends.
I'm so tempted to answer them. :demon:
It's not as if you couldn't understand what Steve meant, is it?
My daughter quotes her (Yorkshire) supplier.
"you'll after order it seprit"
...Jim Laker, who still holds the record for the most number to wickets taken in a test match...
Gone are all the extra bells and whistles, anything that adds extra weight. The only thing you’ll find are functional lightweight solutions. In true X-Bionic® style everything is functional and engineered to allow you to perform at your best. The internal structure of the board, has been totally re-designed. We are using a technique that has never been used before in SUP race board, the details, remain our secret. Equipped with a variety of innovative technologies, the board is truly one of a kind and lets you reach new performance heights effortlessly.
Grammar which makes me cringe? That would be my own. It's never perfect but since I switched to a French keyboard, it's even worse. Far too many errors slip through.I'm not sure I'd cope with a AZERTY keyboard or if I'd bother if I migrated. I can do accents with my UK English keyboard.
Grammar which makes me cringe? That would be my own. It's never perfect but since I switched to a French keyboard, it's even worse. Far too many errors slip through.
Grammar which makes me cringe? That would be my own. It's never perfect but since I switched to a French keyboard, it's even worse. Far too many errors slip through.I'm not sure I'd cope with a AZERTY keyboard or if I'd bother if I migrated. I can do accents with my UK English keyboard.
Grammar which makes me cringe? That would be my own. It's never perfect but since I switched to a French keyboard, it's even worse. Far too many errors slip through.
Oh I've suffered french keyboards, no use for WWW addresses with shifting needed just for a .
Get a UK keyboard that you can plug in, or use BT or wiffy (see what I did there?).
Chum of MrsT's reports with pride on FB that her son has just graduated as a US marine with a meretricious promotion to private 1st class.
Chum of MrsT's reports with pride on FB that her son has just graduated as a US marine with a meretricious promotion to private 1st class.
Are you sure that's a mistake?
If they're using the archaic definition, it's possibly some kind of pun.
It’s a Trojan horse kind of word. Or timeo Danaos et dona ferentes as Moggsie baby would have it.
Chum of MrsT's reports with pride on FB that her son has just graduated as a US marine with a meretricious promotion to private 1st class.
Are you sure that's a mistake?
If they're using the archaic definition, it's possibly some kind of pun.
Sam
Well yes, you do.
Unless you refuse entry to people who are mandatorily exempt from having to wear one.
Unanimously most of you feel that there's a phenomenal opportunity to...
Most of these intellectual property assets are unique and therefore there isn't many genuine market observable data points available for benchmarking or comparison purposes.
Omit needless words
I've just seen this gem in an email:(click to show/hide)
I've just seen this gem in an email:(click to show/hide)
In languages with stricter rules (or conventions) governing the relationship between pronunciation and spelling, foreign words tend to follow a process of having either their spelling changed to match to the original pronunciation, or being pronounced in a way that matches the local spelling rules. This is a pretty good example of the first process. :thumbsup:I've just seen this gem in an email:(click to show/hide)
I am 100% for this.
'shedio'
A portemanteau of shed and studio which sounds uncomfortably like 'cool, daddio!'
Just overheard a colleague on the phone:
"We don't want to hero that..."
Made me flinch involuntarily.
From an article, Alabama doctor on treating unvaccinated, dying COVID patients (https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html)
"Dr. Brytney Cobia is a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham."
No, that's a motorist.Most excellent.
Whilst it is cringeworthy, it is accepted American English. We would call them a general medicine consultant.
Whilst it is cringeworthy, it is accepted American English. We would call them a general medicine consultant.
As the Guardian reported last year, an Arizona fire was sparked in 2017 after an off-duty US border patrol agent shot at an explosive that sent blue smoke into the air to dramatically announce that his baby would be born as a boy.
Not so much grammar, but radio interviewees, who, when introduced to give their piece/opinion, they reply;
"Thanks for having me". :hand:
Or those who think that every sentence can start with “So”.John Finnemore (https://youtu.be/txX4Y18vvNI?t=1197) has some info about that.
Whilst it is cringeworthy, it is accepted American English. We would call them a general medicine consultant.
Medical doctors whose practice is limited to within hospitals; no other office for their practice. Versus medical doctors who see patients in a clinic as well as in a hospital setting, or who only see patients in a clinic.
Or those who think that every sentence can start with “So”.John Finnemore (https://youtu.be/txX4Y18vvNI?t=1197) has some info about that.
Residents will be invited out to their doorsteps to dance and sing along to the parade in what the organisers hope will be a massive community singalong – a “masseoke”.In a way a silly word, but it made me smile and I like the process of taking a word from another language then playing with it in your own.
“We have really lucked in with this opportunity to share the first outing of SMOOSH! with the community at Knowle West.I've generally heard "lucked out" in this meaning but "lucked in" is a better fit, to my mind. If you've lucked in, you're in luck. Whereas if you've lucked out, you're also in luck although the juxtaposition implies you should be out of luck.
Wonder if that's related to the fascinating leftpondian convention of using down arrows to me[an] [?] straight on on road signs, rather than the up-arrows we use.
Wonder if that's related to the fascinating leftpondian convention of using down arrows to me[an] [?] straight on on road signs, rather than the up-arrows we use.
I think the sign making over here is driven, at least for USAnians and (possibly by osmosis across the border) those north of us in Canuckistan by the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, "MUTCD".
I think the idea is to point out which lane to be in, versus where to go to get to the destination. It's a small distinction, but given the limited training and skills of many motor vehicle operators here, every little bit helps. Or, could help.
Or, downers versus uppers, choose your pill.
tr. and intr. surely? "He's always screenshitting. Yesterday he screenshat some tweets, today he's been screenshitting from Instagram."
tr. and intr. surely? "He's always screenshitting. Yesterday he screenshat some tweets, today he's been screenshitting from Instagram."
GPWM.
Now all we need is the equivalent term for sharing video by recording it being displayed on the screen of another device. (Bonus points for shaky handheld camera, oblique angles, reflections and aspect ratio mismatch.)
I propose 'moirécasting'.
I don't much care for 'caveated' either.
I like caveated, so I'm running with it.
It gets worse when you consider that caveat is a verb anyway, albeit in Latin. Could also be a Stone-Age refectory.
'caveat emptor'
'caveat emptor'
I presume that's where the current use of caveat as a noun stems from. This is a common side effect of popular set phrases where some or all of the constituent parts are uncommon and/or foreign words. Something gets lost in translation.
'caveat emptor'
I presume that's where the current use of caveat as a noun stems from. This is a common side effect of popular set phrases where some or all of the constituent parts are uncommon and/or foreign words. Something gets lost in translation.
Not so sure. I did an ngram (https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=caveat%2Ccaveat+emptor&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccaveat%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ccaveat%20emptor%3B%2Cc0) of caveat and caveat emptor, and caveat on its own appears to be much more frequent. Of course the caveat dataset will contain the caveat emptor data as well, but the simple caveat graph isn't in step with it.
Two people were in the lorry's cab, and one was able to get out themselves...
Four amateur astronauts blasted off from Florida on a private SpaceX mission, paid for by billionaire Jared Issacman. But to which of the following were they aiming to reach a similar altitude?Ugh!
What do people think of the word 'precautious'? OED records it from 1713 (https://www.oed.com/oed2/00186433#:~:text=precautious%2C%20a.,1713%20Steele%20Guardian%20No.) but it seems to be undergoing an increase in use currently.
Probably about the same time that 'swap out' became a thing... :facepalm:
"We can start and stop either at the top of the hour or the bottom of the hour." To me that suggests something like 12:01 or 12:59, give or take. But in this context (programming firewall rules) it apparently means 12:00 or 12:30 respectively. The logic is clear but it's the first time I've heard "the bottom of the hour" in this meaning. Usanian, which usually makes a difference when talking about time and dates, but probably not in the computer context. I might start trying the phrase out on people.
Jack Ryan : Has he made any Crazy Ivans?
Capt. Bart Mancuso : What difference does that make?
Jack Ryan : Because his next one is going to be to starboard.
Capt. Bart Mancuso : Why? Because his last was to port?
Jack Ryan : No. Because he always goes to starboard in the bottom half of the hour.
[Mancuso looks at a clock, and sees it's near the half-hour mark]
Or build out
If it's within a shell building, that's back to front – you're actually building in from the outside! But at the same time it makes perfect sense.Or build out
In Usanian retail development-speak, to "build out" means to construct tenant improvements within a "shell building" or vacant space.
Back in the days of vacuum tube radios over here in Leftpondia, it was common to hear that a few minutes of news coverage was about to be broadcast at the top or bottom of the hour. Typically, headlines at the bottom of the hour, with more coverage at the top of the hour.
If it's within a shell building, that's back to front – you're actually building in from the outside! But at the same time it makes perfect sense.Or build out
In Usanian retail development-speak, to "build out" means to construct tenant improvements within a "shell building" or vacant space.
Okay, this one does make me cringe. And vomit. Even though it's grammatically flawless.
"Sexually challenged people" as a euphemism (or rather a dysphemism – I'd like to say "cacophemism") for gay, bi, otherwise non-heterosexual people.
The inclusion of “skinship” is more surprising. Commonly used in South Korea, where it is rendered as seukinsip, and Japan (sukinshippu) it captures the emotional bond that comes from close physical contact between a parent and child, lovers and friends, the dictionary said.When does a word become Korean (or Japanese or French or whatever)? Do Koreans consider seukinsip to be a Korean word or an English one? Or maybe just a Korean word of foreign origin? See intelligentsia, cul-de-sac, etc. Also, we have ways of expressing the idea of skinship in English, but only in a phrase. Why have we never developed a single word for it on our own?
Other makes a difference.
Other makes a difference.
I'm with Cudzo on this - I think that's implicit.
The Oxford comma is a stylistic thing. It's part of the house style of OUP, hence its name. All three of your lists above are correct (IMO), use whichever you prefer – or whichever is the preference of whoever is paying you – just be consistent (within any one text).
Have you heard of the Oxford comma?
Apparantly, without the Oxford comma Americans are uncertain as to whether there are three or four items in the list.
Your example is perfectly clear for me. How can "A, B, C and D" mean 3 items for some people is not clear.
It's possible to have ambiguity with only two items. "I like macaroni and cheese. But I don't like macaroni and cheese." Though in this example you can avoid the ambiguity by being American and calling the dish "mac and cheese".But then you would have to be killed utterly to DETH. Even worse is "mac 'n' cheese".
Macaroni cheese=macncheese=/=macaroni and cheese.
The 'and' in English is only used for separate items, surely?
For me, there are three items in A, B, C or D, but four items in A, B, C and D, with or without an extra comma. Are the Americans confused between the meanings of "and" and "or" ?
Macaroni cheese=macncheese=/=macaroni and cheese.
The 'and' in English is only used for separate items, surely?
We could I suppose use "with" in English to avoid this. "I like fish and chips but I don't like fish with chips." But we don't actually say that.Except in degree course titles, where "Midwifery with Astrophysics" means you're almost qualified to deliver a baby and looked at a telescope once, but "Midwifery and Astrophysics" means an equal split and you shouldn't be trusted with either.
To use a notation that avoids the ambiguity, it's the difference between {"A", "B", "C", "D"} and {"A", "B", "C and D"}
Talking of computer programming, last week I was editing captions for a series of videos that were to form a course for a particular software. Needless to say, I knew nothing about the programme beforehand and very little afterwards, but I did gather that it's important to distinguish between, say, Reward Account, RewardAccount and rewardAccount. One is a generic idea, one a particular database and one a method. Or something. I really, really hope someone who understands this is going to go over it before it's released on students, but somehow I doubt that's going to happen.
And then you can have a class called Object which is an object of class Class.
<bemused looks>
I can't do uppercase and Courier font when I'm speaking. I try, but I can't get the serifs right.
Anyway I was going to go back to "and". "I like lentils and parmesan but I don't like lentils and parmesan." See the Random Food thread!
I had to google that. A little before my time...Anyway I was going to go back to "and". "I like lentils and parmesan but I don't like lentils and parmesan." See the Random Food thread!
If you like peas and you like cheese...
I've seen “shot to DETH” crop up occasionally but sounds Wrong/FOREIGN/both to this Unit.Yes, it's lacking the word UTTERLY
Why do we say "Shot dead", but "Stabbed to death" ?Is there a technical difference (linguistic and/or legal) that's combining with "usage frequency"?
Why not "Shot to death" and "Stabbed dead" ?
I'd had much the same thought, though it hadn't occurred to me to link it with a legal distinction, but then dismissed it as just a personal association.Why do we say "Shot dead", but "Stabbed to death" ?Is there a technical difference (linguistic and/or legal) that's combining with "usage frequency"?
Why not "Shot to death" and "Stabbed dead" ?
"To death" suggests multiple (and not individually fatal) wounds. Perhaps it also includes number of assailants. A firing squad shoots someone to death, they don't shoot someone dead. Stabbing dead could be a single fatal action. Stabbed to death - be bleeding out from multiple injuries.
I think it's generally imagined (expected) that being stabbed is more survivable than being shot. Being stabbed dead is less common than being shot dead, and so the phrase is used more often.
Definition creep: it used to be that you spiked someone's drink to get them drunk but now, after seeing Ian's new thread and doing a bit of googling, it appears that it's the people who get spiked. Well, well, dearie me, what a wonderful modern world we live in.
Definition creep: it used to be that you spiked someone's drink to get them drunk but now, after seeing Ian's new thread and doing a bit of googling, it appears that it's the people who get spiked. Well, well, dearie me, what a wonderful modern world we live in.
It's not really a change in definition, it's that the people who are doing the spiking are now doing it directly (and literally, ie with a needle) into their victim, rather than indirectly via their drink.
Yeah, except they aren't…
It wouldn't surprise me if some scrote was using something like ketamine unfortunately.
In a BBC article I read the the victim of a crime had been “allegedly stabbed”. You know, the one that died from stab wounds ::-)
More correctly they're both forms of being murdered to death.
Definition creep: it used to be that you spiked someone's drink to get them drunk but now, after seeing Ian's new thread and doing a bit of googling, it appears that it's the people who get spiked. Well, well, dearie me, what a wonderful modern world we live in.
It's not really a change in definition, it's that the people who are doing the spiking are now doing it directly (and literally, ie with a needle) into their victim, rather than indirectly via their drink.
More correctly they're both forms of being murdered to death.
Is there any other outcome of murder than death?
I have heard, and cringed at, "netizens" before, but what on earth is a "brifter"? It sounds like a portmanteau word to describe Farage, Johnson, Handcock etc etc - British grifter. Whatever it is, it sounds bloody horrible.It is as Mr Larrington has already said, but as combined brake levers and gear shifters are not in themselves an ugly or bad thing, the meaning of the extremely ugly word "brifter" should be what you have said.
...while descending down a steep hill...
They are accompaniments which complement the main dish. Or maybe which compliment it.
Then again, does it mean all the little bits and pieces you can put together to make something larger? You know, the accomponents?
<super annoying pedant>They are accompaniments which complement the main dish. Or maybe which compliment it.
Then again, does it mean all the little bits and pieces you can put together to make something larger? You know, the accomponents?
<pedant>
I think you mean 'complement'…
I am warming to the term 'trimmings'.
Simple, unpretentious English is best!
ISTR someone, possible not OTP, disparaging (or even deprecating) the use of the word decade. Does anyone know why?
We are "working hand and love" with our partners. :DIt's when they say "towards a happy ending" that you might want to get worried.
ISTR someone, possible not OTP, disparaging (or even deprecating) the use of the word decade. Does anyone know why?
Was it along the lines that a decade is a ten year period, and not necessarily the period of years with nY as the last two digits, where n is a constant and Y is a variable?
Smoking has already been widely replaced by vaping among teenage New Zealanders, and is also attracting many young people who would never have taken up smoking – according to surveying of 19,000 high school students this year, nearly 20% were vaping daily or several times a day, the majority with high nicotine doses.
They are accompaniments which complement the main dish. Or maybe which compliment it.
Then again, does it mean all the little bits and pieces you can put together to make something larger? You know, the accomponents?
<pedant>
I think you mean 'complement'…
I am warming to the term 'trimmings'.
Simple, unpretentious English is best!
Shouldn't that word be 'licenCe'?That was my first thought too. She could be USAnian though, and they use 'license' for both the noun and the verb (weirdos).
Using ran as the past participle of run.
No you didn't feckin ran it.
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Draw: to sketch with a pen or pencil
Drawer: those box shaped things for keeping stuff in that slide in and out of a chest
Yes, this one has been getting on my wick of late.
"Chester draws". A thing often seen in small ads.Draw: to sketch with a pen or pencil
Drawer: those box shaped things for keeping stuff in that slide in and out of a chest
Yes, this one has been getting on my wick of late.
Me too, me too, me too.
(But I think it's spelling rather than grammar #pedant ::-) )
If you had written "authentification" just once, it would probably have been a typo. But using it at every opportunity suggests you believe it is a real word. It is not, so please don't use it again.
It does however give us the ability to create a work based upon two or three known and understood parts and come up with something that has never existed before, and yet is instantly understood by anyone. I rather enjoy that aspect of this language.
Yes but sometimes the add-ons behave differently than when they are separate words. Which gets one confused.It does however give us the ability to create a work based upon two or three known and understood parts and come up with something that has never existed before, and yet is instantly understood by anyone. I rather enjoy that aspect of this language.
Aren't German-speakers able to do that with up to eleventy-seven parts?
Authentify would be a great word, shorter than authenticate and has a reflexive feel to it.I think the thing here is that with 'authentication' the root of both noun and verb is an adjective, whereas with say 'verification' the noun is derived from the verb.
If you had written "authentification" just once, it would probably have been a typo. But using it at every opportunity suggests you believe it is a real word. It is not, so please don't use it again.
Non-native English speakers seem to use it often enough that I assume it takes that form in other languages.
ETA: Just looked it up and it's legitimate French.
Just a matter of time before we get 'authentificationize', obviously. Probably in a Java library.
I once had a dig around a database written in Canadian-French, was fine until I came across Anathesiologist.If you had written "authentification" just once, it would probably have been a typo. But using it at every opportunity suggests you believe it is a real word. It is not, so please don't use it again.
Non-native English speakers seem to use it often enough that I assume it takes that form in other languages.
ETA: Just looked it up and it's legitimate French.
Just a matter of time before we get 'authentificationize', obviously. Probably in a Java library.
You're trying to apply consistent patterns to English ??I’m always impressed when very young children do this with irregular verbs, making up words they will not have heard, applying the rules they haven’t been expressly taught, but which they have already assimilated: runned, thinked, doed etc.
Lost cause.
It does however give us the ability to create a word based upon two or three known and understood parts and come up with something that has never existed before, and yet is instantly understood by anyone. I rather enjoy that aspect of this language.
Yes, it's a fun and interesting look at how we learn language. Not just verbs, of course. One of my favourites was a friend's little boy, who in reply to another child's "I've got a jumper on" said "I've got two jumper ons".You're trying to apply consistent patterns to English ??I’m always impressed when very young children do this with irregular verbs, making up words they will not have heard, applying the rules they haven’t been expressly taught, but which they have already assimilated: runned, thinked, doed etc.
Lost cause.
It does however give us the ability to create a word based upon two or three known and understood parts and come up with something that has never existed before, and yet is instantly understood by anyone. I rather enjoy that aspect of this language.
I’m always impressed when very young children do this with irregular verbs, making up words they will not have heard, applying the rules they haven’t been expressly taught, but which they have already assimilated: runned, thinked, doed etc.
I once had a dig around a database written in Canadian-French, was fine until I came across Anathesiologist.
Wtaf?
vented,I’m always impressed when very young children do this with irregular verbs, making up words they will not have heard, applying the rules they haven’t been expressly taught, but which they have already assimilated: runned, thinked, doed etc.
Saw that and immediately thought “Newspeak”. Still, oldthinkers unbellyfeel IngSoc, so that's alright.
vented,I’m always impressed when very young children do this with irregular verbs, making up words they will not have heard, applying the rules they haven’t been expressly taught, but which they have already assimilated: runned, thinked, doed etc.
Saw that and immediately thought “Newspeak”. Still, oldthinkers unbellyfeel IngSoc, so that's alright.
My favourite is one of my nephew's (when a child). He introduced (effortlessly) the very useful verb "unbeableto", which is much more poetic than "won't be able to"! Grammar that makes me proud!
Reminds me of my infant son who, on being told to behave, replied "but I am being have" (to rhyme with wave).
If you had written "authentification" just once, it would probably have been a typo. But using it at every opportunity suggests you believe it is a real word. It is not, so please don't use it again.
Non-native English speakers seem to use it often enough that I assume it takes that form in other languages.
ETA: Just looked it up and it's legitimate French.
Just a matter of time before we get 'authentificationize', obviously. Probably in a Java library.
I work a lot with French colleagues and some of my favourites are "plannification" and "robustify". Not sure I have heard "robustification" yet but it's probably out there.
someone who can't spell LOL properlyI'm not sure whether "Im" is meant to "IM" as in an abbreviation for something like "instant message" or "I'm" without punctuation. Awesome, fab, congrats and omg were all pretty popular before the internet took off as well. In fact journalists, of all people, were moaning about the overuse of "awesome" back in the late 1980s.
'Gotten' is surely standard USAnian?
Five ways the internet era has changed British English
'Gotten' is surely standard USAnian?QuoteFive ways the internet era has changed British English
Anyway, it's just saying written UK English has become more informal. I would think that's because of online forums, social media, blogs etc being more chatty. Pre-internet, published informal texts would be much less common, maybe almost non existent.
someone who can't spell LOL properlyI'm not sure whether "Im" is meant to "IM" as in an abbreviation for something like "instant message" or "I'm" without punctuation.
I think George Bernard Shaw never used apostrophes and advocated their abolition, on the grounds that they confuse people. It didn't stop him getting a Nobel Prize (maybe even helped) but I don't think it's his influence leading to their decline now.someone who can't spell LOL properlyI'm not sure whether "Im" is meant to "IM" as in an abbreviation for something like "instant message" or "I'm" without punctuation.
I was wondering about that too. The inclusion of "Ive" suggests it might be "I'm" without an apostrophe (which is surely a significant linguistic drift getting lost in a list of brand names, abbreviations and technical terms). Also, nobody talks about IMs any more, do they? (Even though they're alive and well, and mostly owned by Facebook.)
I think George Bernard Shaw never used apostrophes and advocated their abolition, on the grounds that they confuse people. It didn't stop him getting a Nobel Prize (maybe even helped) but I don't think it's his influence leading to their decline now.someone who can't spell LOL properlyI'm not sure whether "Im" is meant to "IM" as in an abbreviation for something like "instant message" or "I'm" without punctuation.
I was wondering about that too. The inclusion of "Ive" suggests it might be "I'm" without an apostrophe (which is surely a significant linguistic drift getting lost in a list of brand names, abbreviations and technical terms). Also, nobody talks about IMs any more, do they? (Even though they're alive and well, and mostly owned by Facebook.)
A fair whack of "Americanisms" come from Scottish Standard English or Hiberno-English'Gotten' is surely standard USAnian?QuoteFive ways the internet era has changed British English
Anyway, it's just saying written UK English has become more informal. I would think that's because of online forums, social media, blogs etc being more chatty. Pre-internet, published informal texts would be much less common, maybe almost non existent.
I've just checked on mine and the options it gives are slightly different but always include both the correct form and the incorrect one I've entered. Interestingly, typing "ive" gives "i've" as an option. Also, I'm so used to MS Word and its equivalents autocorrecting "i" to "I" that I'm caught out when my phone doesn't do this for me.I think George Bernard Shaw never used apostrophes and advocated their abolition, on the grounds that they confuse people. It didn't stop him getting a Nobel Prize (maybe even helped) but I don't think it's his influence leading to their decline now.someone who can't spell LOL properlyI'm not sure whether "Im" is meant to "IM" as in an abbreviation for something like "instant message" or "I'm" without punctuation.
I was wondering about that too. The inclusion of "Ive" suggests it might be "I'm" without an apostrophe (which is surely a significant linguistic drift getting lost in a list of brand names, abbreviations and technical terms). Also, nobody talks about IMs any more, do they? (Even though they're alive and well, and mostly owned by Facebook.)
It's interesting, because you'd expect autocarrot to insert the apostrophe automagically on a fondleslab, which is surely the place where most lazy typing takes place.
I've just checked on my phone and the suggestions are "ive" "I've" "ice" and "im" "I'm" "immediately" respectively. You'd think the lazy option would be to take the prominent, grammatically correct, suggestion. Are people deliberately using the lower-case version for linguistic reasons (cf. Gretchen McCulloch)? Or taking the leftmost suggestion, even though it's further to reach with your right hand? Do people genuinely not know how to use contractions properly? Or is it purely a hardware keyboard phenomenon?
Abolishing apostrophes is an interesting idea. It's a bit like USAnian spelling, in that it's clearly inevitable. Which doesn't make it any less cringe-worthy for those of us who've been brought up to use them correctly.I don't think they will be formally abolished, because English doesn't do things like that, nor am I sure they will die out. Rather, I think their use will probably alter to become something else. Perhaps apostrophe s being how you form a plural unless the word ends in a vowel, or something just as silly as the mess we have now.
A fair whack of "Americanisms" come from Scottish Standard English or Hiberno-English'Gotten' is surely standard USAnian?QuoteFive ways the internet era has changed British English
Anyway, it's just saying written UK English has become more informal. I would think that's because of online forums, social media, blogs etc being more chatty. Pre-internet, published informal texts would be much less common, maybe almost non existent.
Gotten is perfectly legit here as it is the past-participle of "get" in Scots, SSE is modern English mangled with Scots and Gaelic, Scots is of course middle english mangled with Gaelic and then presented to a different set of trading partners from what middle English and Northumbric were.
See also Halloween.
British English is a fallacy created by the ruling class to attempt to present the UK as a single homogenous thing rather than the inherent multi-cuktural thing it is, feck Scotland has 4 distinct high-level cultures as it was (lowland, Highland, hebridean and norse), England has an imperial fuck ton of them, as can easily be seen by putting a Geordie in the same room as a Cornish.
See also “bring” for “take”, and “brought” for “taken”.Sentences please?
Aye you may note i led to that in my rant.A fair whack of "Americanisms" come from Scottish Standard English or Hiberno-English'Gotten' is surely standard USAnian?QuoteFive ways the internet era has changed British English
Anyway, it's just saying written UK English has become more informal. I would think that's because of online forums, social media, blogs etc being more chatty. Pre-internet, published informal texts would be much less common, maybe almost non existent.
Gotten is perfectly legit here as it is the past-participle of "get" in Scots, SSE is modern English mangled with Scots and Gaelic, Scots is of course middle english mangled with Gaelic and then presented to a different set of trading partners from what middle English and Northumbric were.
See also Halloween.
British English is a fallacy created by the ruling class to attempt to present the UK as a single homogenous thing rather than the inherent multi-cuktural thing it is, feck Scotland has 4 distinct high-level cultures as it was (lowland, Highland, hebridean and norse), England has an imperial fuck ton of them, as can easily be seen by putting a Geordie in the same room as a Cornish.
Gotten is standard English in several parts of the UK, and the standard in the US, never sure why it keeps being highlighted as some symptom of creeping Americanism). I think it sounds nice than the rather curt got.
See also “bring” for “take”, and “brought” for “taken”.Sentences please?
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Or must the language have an army, thus Scots is just out of date English and we can claim Northumberland, land grab sorted.The old saying, "a language is a dialect with its own flag".
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“DidIyou bring the food with you?” instead of “Did you take the food with you?” A construction I’ve heard in Ireland and in the US.
I cringe when a website asks for the expiration date of my credit/debit card, not its expiry date.
See also “bring” for “take”, and “brought” for “taken”.Sentences please?
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“Did I you bring the food with you?” instead of “Did you take the food with you?” A construction I’ve heard in Ireland and in the US.
And it’s brought in place of took, not taken :)
Some time ago a friend 'phoned to ask for help with a job on his house and said "will you fetch a saw?" instead of bring a saw. I didn't ask from whereabouts I should collect it.See also “bring” for “take”, and “brought” for “taken”.Sentences please?
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“Did I you bring the food with you?” instead of “Did you take the food with you?” A construction I’ve heard in Ireland and in the US.
And it’s brought in place of took, not taken :)
A much more subtle one to listen for.I wouldn't have called that a particularly subtle difference. I hadn't linked it directly to any particular area either.
SSE grammar says that if there is food on the table it needs Eaten.
SE English grammar says that if there's food on the table then it needs earing.
Not sure about Hiberno
I cringe when a website asks for the expiration date of my credit/debit card, not its expiry date.
I cringe when a website asks for the expiration date of my credit/debit card, not its expiry date.
It'd be nice to think, though, that we could replace that cumbersome -ation with -y everywhere: nation would become ny and ration would atrophy to ry, which is OK with enough butter. Station would become sty, a fair description of the Underground. Lots of other cases may be found, collect the full set.
I cringe when a website asks for the expiration date of my credit/debit card, not its expiry date.
Expiry is a nice word, but somewhat irregular, whereas expiration is both valid and boringly regular. It'd be nice to think, though, that we could replace that cumbersome -ation with -y everywhere: nation would become ny and ration would atrophy to ry, which is OK with enough butter. Station would become sty, a fair description of the Underground. Lots of other cases may be found, collect the full set.
I think my blood sugar is too high again.
We hereby heartily congratulate and recommend T42 as the reincarnation of Noah Webst.
Have we done the use of "must..." to mean "I really, really want..."? Seems to be becoming ever-more prevalent, but just exemplified in this from Cycling UK:That one's an arms race. It's been common usage for years when stating policy opinions.
"Govt must promote Highway Code changes..."
Now that's a really good idea, but nothing in the message explains why the Government "must" do it - only why they really should and CUK really, really hopes that they will (as indeed do I). Not getting at CUK for this, as everyone is doing it, but it's logically impossible for any Government to do everything that they now "must" do, and the word is losing its force as a result.
Which goes back to that useful book on why language changes. Speakers and writers look constantly for ways to emphasise their points, and so choose words that are not strictly appropriate, such as "must" when they mean, "in my opinion, should". So, the perceived meaning of must is in fact weakened over time, until no-one remembers it ever meaning anything more than a mere statement of opinion, and one opinion clamouring among many at that.I agree 110%
At that point, having collectively wrecked that word, the same speakers and writers (or rather, their successors) abandon it and move on to vandalise the next :demon:
Of course, in this sense, we are all speakers and writers.
Which goes back to that useful book on why language changes. Speakers and writers look constantly for ways to emphasise their points, and so choose words that are not strictly appropriate, such as "must" when they mean, "in my opinion, should". So, the perceived meaning of must is in fact weakened over time, until no-one remembers it ever meaning anything more than a mere statement of opinion, and one opinion clamouring among many at that.I agree literally 110%
At that point, having collectively wrecked that word, the same speakers and writers (or rather, their successors) abandon it and move on to vandalise the next :demon:
Of course, in this sense, we are all speakers and writers.
The Guardian says it’s fine to split infinitives because “stubbornly to resist so can sound pompous and awkward”.
See also “bring” for “take”, and “brought” for “taken”.
'Early doors' when people mean 'early.'
Romesh Ranganathan on telly the other night-
well he has to be down with the kids !
In the commentary in a YT video on the Art Nouveau illustrations of Alphonse Mucha, "these were created as goulash paintings" instead of gouache.Load of old pollocks!
Of course, maybe there is a technique using beef stew as a medium. My mum once told me that when I was a baby I used to throw spoonfuls of mashed potato at the window.
Presumably you object to early 20th century theatre posters?
This is a brilliant and easy cake I have made for years
My one tip:
Don’t forget to keep an eye on the simmering clementines …I ruined a (wedding present) Le Creuset pan
Thankfully my (late) wife was understanding and I found a replacement on eBay
From a quick scan of the BNA, it was in use in theatres (as on the poster) from the early 1890s until the practice died out in the 1960s. But by that time the phrase was well established and was used in other contexts, for instance for people who went into pubs as soon as the doors opened. It seems to have been especially common in the midlands.QuotePresumably you object to early 20th century theatre posters?
Of course not, Salvatore - and it's interesting to find where it arose - but it doesn't seem to have persisted in common usage since 1912.
A clued-up retailer would be mad if he didn't listen to the weather forecast all day. "if it sets In to rain," one wholesaler told me, "we'll have retailers arriving early doors to buy up more shiny wellies. And if he's got any sense, he'll have them displayed outside the shop."and Staffordshire Sentinel - Saturday 30 September 1989
By an amazing coincidence, the subject of violins came up early doors in The Winghouse. Richard, one of the younger regulars, said he had come across his old school fiddle while tidying up the loft.
But I don't have to include it in my own vocabulary
Staffordshire Sentinel - Saturday 30 September 1989QuoteBy an amazing coincidence, the subject of violins came up early doors in The Winghouse. Richard, one of the younger regulars, said he had come across his old school fiddle while tidying up the loft.
It doesn't add any meaning but it does add style or "attitude" just as "got a dig in" takes four words to add no meaning to "criticised". Whether you like that style is another question.
Staffordshire Sentinel - Saturday 30 September 1989QuoteBy an amazing coincidence, the subject of violins came up early doors in The Winghouse. Richard, one of the younger regulars, said he had come across his old school fiddle while tidying up the loft.
Surely that's an early Humphrey Lyttleton quote?
If the quotes add anything, it should be uncertainty, not scariness.It doesn't add any meaning but it does add style or "attitude" just as "got a dig in" takes four words to add no meaning to "criticised". Whether you like that style is another question.
It's arguable that the extra syllable of 'got a dig in' adds more meaning than the scare quotes around "attitude".
It seems to have been especially common in the midlands.That perhaps explains why Ron Atkinson was such a proponent.
A game of two halves
Moving the goalposts
Over the line
The man in black
An early bath
It seems to have been especially common in the midlands.That perhaps explains why Ron Atkinson was such a proponent.
Things have certainly changed since the days when his blind father, Roy Gould, used to follow son Bobby's every game, using his ears and imagination, and, "early doors", said Bobby, "he would have someone commentating for him."
Or as they say in Germany, on a windy night in Stoke
And, I don't know if this counts, but it's good.
On a cold, wet night in Stoke
'Back to square one' is very much a football phrase. 'Square one' is where the goalie spends most of his time and an early guide for football commentary on the radio provided the listeners with a map (in the Radio Times I presume) showing a series of numbered squares on the pitch so that the commentator could inform the listeners more easily as to where the ball was.I did not know that. Thank you for the information. :thumbsup:
Guardian has a bit on it which throws the lie to the story - apologies for the fake news.Pah! Well it was a nice story while it lasted.
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1811,00.html
I always thought that one came from Snakes and Ladders. Both of which have the potential for making football more interesting.
Weel wi de caw "take away" a carry ootSee also “bring” for “take”, and “brought” for “taken”.
Several decades ago I heard a fellow USAnian, born and raised in the northeastern part of the land, but by then a resident of the southeast for many years, state that he had "carried my pickup truck over to my brother-in-law". "Carry" in this context meaning "take".
The Appalachian region of USAnia was originally settled by persons of Scots and Irish descent, and it is said that some of their peculiarities of dialect are remnants of the language of the 1700s.
Weel wi de caw "take away" a carry oot
Æthelred the Unready is widely* acknowledged as the originator of the phrase “That was offside by a fucking mile, ref!”.
* Lie
Adamate, autometry, biophilia, collachrymate, mesology. Also respair and kempt but oddly not gruntled. (https://theconversation.com/five-life-affirming-words-we-should-bring-back-into-use-174848)
When I first encountered “ofay” I thought it was a mispring for “oafy” which in turn was a Wrong version of “oafish” :facepalm:
When I first encountered “ofay” I thought it was a mispring for “oafy” which in turn was a Wrong version of “oafish” :facepalm:
I thought it was Igpay Atinlay, but outside "eefay iefay ofay umfay" it doesn't mean anything.
Hello, I just get my provision license, is there any driver couch may get some space still?
Engineers begin reassembly of 200-year-old bridge spanning England and Scotland
Inger Andersen, the director of the UN Environment Programme, tweeted: “We have just gavelled the resolution paving the way for global action to #BeatPlasticPollution. The most important environmental deal since the Paris accord.”I approve of the verbing of nouns – I also like medalling and podiuming (probably better as words than activities) – but know many here will cringe and probably make puns about it being UN-English.
QuoteInger Andersen, the director of the UN Environment Programme, tweeted: “We have just gavelled the resolution paving the way for global action to #BeatPlasticPollution. The most important environmental deal since the Paris accord.”I approve of the verbing of nouns – I also like medalling and podiuming (probably better as words than activities) – but know many here will cringe and probably make puns about it being UN-English.
And I see that you have also created a new verb - to verb.I'm afraid I can't take the credit for that. Here's a fairly well known example, but I don't think it's even the original of this particular phrase, let alone using "verb" as a verb:
In English, any noun can be verbed
QuoteInger Andersen, the director of the UN Environment Programme, tweeted: “We have just gavelled the resolution paving the way for global action to #BeatPlasticPollution. The most important environmental deal since the Paris accord.”I approve of the verbing of nouns – I also like medalling and podiuming (probably better as words than activities) – but know many here will cringe and probably make puns about it being UN-English.
From Stephen and I's perspective:sick: :facepalm:
John Masterchef Torode is always doing this, e.g. 'feed Greg and I'. Drives MrsC up the wall.QuoteFrom Stephen and I's perspective:sick: :facepalm:
Perhaps no surprise that the speaker was an HR rep.
The classic linguistic hypercorrrection. People bend over backward to avoid saying 'me'. Not something you'd find myself doing.
And it's 'Gregg' btw - 3G Gregg.
You’re going to have to enlighten me, coz Mr Google doesn’t know the difference.
You’re going to have to enlighten me, coz Mr Google doesn’t know the difference.
Saddle bag vs bag of shit?
Some eejit cook on YouTube continually placing stuff into receptacles instead of in them.
Like trains arriving into stations?Personally I've always arrived at stations. Not sure into receptacles is wrong, as it conveys a sense of movement - after the stuff has been put into the receptacle, then it is in that receptacle. Although I'd probably put the receptacle in the cupboard afterwards, which is a bit inconsistent. Is this a distinction that would have been rigorous previously and is now falling out of use? Some languages use different cases, if I recall correctly, to reflect the distinction between being in a place and moving into that place.
Not sure into receptacles is wrong, as it conveys a sense of movement - after the stuff has been put into the receptacle, then it is in that receptacle.
Yebbut then it should be “with” not “for”.
it may be necessary to substitute sunflower oil for other oils in some products
Agreed. As I started to read it my assumption was that they had made a mistake and reversed the oils.Quoteit may be necessary to substitute sunflower oil for other oils in some products
For the intended meaning, it should be: it may be necessary to replace sunflower oil with other oils in some products.
As it is, it means: the "other oils" are in short supply and sunflower oil is the replacement.
The signees urged Scholz to heed Germany’s “historic responsibility” by helping the two sides find a “compromise that both can accept”.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/german-thinkers-war-of-words-over-ukraine-exposes-generational-divide
They've done the signing not been signed. (This is like "attendee" isn't it?)Yes. And like "retiree", who is, linguistically, somebody who has been forcibly retired :o
The English slang word “peeved” is sometimes used to refer to someone who has drunk too much alcohol and is again derived from a Romany word. The European Romany word “pijav” means “drink” and shows a direct connection with the English slang.https://theconversation.com/six-english-words-borrowed-from-the-romany-language-179869
According to the online source the urban dictionary the word “chingering” means to caress another person’s chin in a sensual way. This is quite far removed from the meaning of the word chingering used amongst speakers of Anglo-Romany. This word is used to refer to quarrelling or to the act of insulting someone. The word again derives from the Romany words “čhinger” and “čhingerel” meaning to quarrel or shout.I've never heard this word, but if the English meaning is so different from the Romany, is the one really derived from the other?
You may be surprised by some of the words that have been incorrectly labelled as colloquial or slang in English, which are in fact words that have crossed over from Anglo-Romany.Why incorrectly? They may be standard vocabulary in Anglo-Romany but that doesn't stop them being slang in English. It's quite common for words to change register when they're adopted from one language into another.
Originally U.S.
Irritated, annoyed; put into a peevish mood.
1908 G. V. Hobart Go to It 31 It may be interesting to some people, but it gets me peeved.
1913 C. E. Mulford Coming of Cassidy iv. 71 Jimmy..regarded the peeved proprietor, shaking his head sorrowfully.
1929 A. Conan Doyle Maracot Deep 264 What is up, Jack? You seem peeved this morning.
1975 Daily Mail 13 June 7/4 The agency won't talk about the work; its executives are rather peeved that the news has got out.
2001 T. H. Culley Immortal Class (2002) x. 265 Can a handful of mildly peeved code crunchers constitute a riot?
Origin: Formed within English, by back-formation. Etymon: peevish adj.
Etymology: Back-formation < peevish adj.
Originally U.S.
1. transitive. To make peevish; to irritate, annoy.
1901 Naugatuck (Connecticut) Daily News 28 June 1/3 Though it breaks our hearts to go; Our departure should not peeve you, For we're out here to row.
1934 R. Macaulay Going Abroad xvii. 139 I suppose he'd peeved me in some way.
1966 I. Jefferies House-surgeon v. 101 ‘They were peeved, like little school-kids.’.. ‘Who peeved them, Harry?’
2004 Sun (Nexis) 24 Jan. That's the thing that peeves me whenever they show Besty's six goals. They never show mine as well!
2. intransitive. To grumble, complain petulantly.
1912 G. Ade Knocking Neighbors 10 The Waiter peeved at being slipped a paltry $1.60.
1923 U. L. Silberrad Lett. Jean Armiter xi. 227 He has a gift of peeving on paper.
1999 J. Crace Being Dead (2000) xii. 98 The committee drifted off, peeving and frowning at the secretary as they passed through her room to collect their coats.
Forms: late Middle English peuysche, late Middle English pevys, late Middle English peyuesshe, late Middle English–1500s pevysh, late Middle English–1500s pevyshe, late Middle English (in a late copy)– peevish, late Middle English (in a late copy)– pevish (now nonstandard), 1500s peeuesh, 1500s peeuishe, 1500s penysshe (transmission error), 1500s peuess, 1500s peuissh, 1500s peuisshe, 1500s peuyche, 1500s peuysh, 1500s peuyshe, 1500s peuysshe, 1500s pevysshe, 1500s pieuish, 1500s pieuishe, 1500s piuish, 1500s piuishe, 1500s piuisshe, 1500s pyuyshe, 1500s pyuysshe, 1500s–1600s peeuish, 1500s–1600s peevishe, 1500s–1600s peuish, 1500s–1600s peuishe, 1600s pievish; also Scottish pre-1700 peuische, pre-1700 pevach, pre-1700 pevech, pre-1700 pevis, pre-1700 pevych, pre-1700 pevyche, pre-1700 pewech. (Show Less)
Frequency (in current use): Show frequency band information
Origin: Of uncertain origin. Perhaps a borrowing from Latin. Etymon: Latin perversus.
Etymology: Origin uncertain; perhaps ultimately < classical Latin perversus via an unattested Old French continuation of the Latin word (which, if it existed, was superseded early in French by the Latin borrowing Old French pervers perverse n.), although this presents some formal difficulties.
An alternative suggestion links the word to classical Latin expavidus startled, shy ( < ex- + pavidus pavid adj.) via an unrecorded variant with -ai- of Middle French espave (of an animal) stray, (of a person) foreign, (as noun) lost property, flotsam (1283 in Old French; French épave ).The semantic connection is thought to be the behaviour of stray animals. Compare -ish suffix1.
The exact sense of the adjective in many of the early quots. is difficult to establish.(Show Less)
A. adj.
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†1. Perverse, refractory; headstrong, obstinate; capricious, skittish; (also) coy. Obsolete.
c1400 (▸?a1387) W. Langland Piers Plowman (Huntington HM 137) (1873) C. ix. 151 Thenne gan wastour to wratth..And to peers plouhman proferede to fighte, And bad hym go pisse with hus plouh, peyuesshe [v.r. peuysche; c1400 A text pilide; c1400 B text forpynede] shrewe!
1472 J. Paston in Paston Lett. & Papers (2004) I. 576 Item, the prowd, pevyshe, and euyll dysposyd prest to vs all, Syr Jamys, seyth þat ye comandyd hym to delyuer þe book of vij Sagys to my brodyr Water, and he hathe it.
1539 Bible (Great) Cranmer Pref. Not onely foolyshe frowarde and obstinate but also peuysshe, peruerse and indurate.
a1556 N. Udall Ralph Roister Doister (?1566) iii. iii. sig. E.j These women be all suche madde pieuish elues, They will not be wonne except it please them selues.
1589 T. Nashe Anat. Absurditie sig. Eii Nothing is so great an enemie to a sounde iudgment, as the pride of a peeuish conceit.
a1616 W. Shakespeare Two Gentlemen of Verona (1623) v. ii. 47 This it is, to be a peeuish Girle, That flies her fortune when it followes her. View more context for this quotation
a1669 H. Foulis Hist. Romish Treasons (1671) i. iii. 26 Birds were not so shie and peevish formerly.
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†2.
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a. Silly, senseless, foolish. Obsolete.
1519 W. Horman Vulgaria ii. f. 21v Some make serche and dyuynacion by water, some by basyns,..some by coniuryng of a soule, and suche other: and al be acurst or pyuysshe [L. partim execrabilia, partim mera ludibria].
1567 J. Jewel Def. Apol. Churche Eng. vi. xii. §2. 669 That whole tale..is nothing els, but a peeuishe fable.
1633 J. Ford 'Tis Pitty shee's Whore v. sig. I2 v This is your peeuish chattering weake old man.
1676 Doctr. of Devils 56 Christ did his Miracles among a peevish, foolish, sottish people, (as the World accounted them).
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b. Beside oneself; out of one's senses; mad. Obsolete.
1523 J. Skelton Goodly Garlande of Laurell 266 Some tremblid, some girnid, some gaspid, some gasid, As people halfe peuysshe, or men that were masyd.
1548 N. Udall et al. tr. Erasmus Paraphr. Newe Test. I. Acts xii. 15 [They] aunswered to the mayden, Surely thou arte peuyshe.
1591 J. Lyly Endimion i. i. sig. B There was neuer any so peeuish to imagin the Moone eyther capable of affection, or shape of a Mistris.
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†3. Spiteful, malignant, mischievous, harmful. Obsolete.
a1522 G. Douglas tr. Virgil Æneid (1960) xi. xiv. 111 This ilk Aruns..thys pewech man of weir..schuke in hand hys oneschewabill speir.
1569 R. Grafton Chron. II. 176 In derision of the king, they made certaine peeuishe and mocking rymes which I passe ouer.
1601 J. Marston et al. Iacke Drums Entertainm. ii. sig. D2v This crosse, this peeuish hap, Strikes dead my spirits like a thunderclap.
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†4. Hateful, distasteful, horrid. Obsolete.Used to express a feeling of dislike, hostility, or contempt on the part of the speaker, not necessarily inspired by any quality of the object referred to.
a1522 G. Douglas tr. Virgil Æneid (1960) xi. viii. 78 For thou sal neuer los..Be my wappin nor this richt hand of myne, Sik ane pevyche and cative saule as thyne [L. Nunquam animam talem dextra hac..amittes].
a1535 T. More Dialoge of Comfort (1553) ii. xiiii. sig. H.vii The woulfe..spied a fayre cowe in a close...as for yonder peuishe cowe semeth vnto me in my conscience worthe not past a grote.
1563 T. Becon Displaying Popish Masse (1637) 299 The Lords Supper and your peevish, popish private masse doe agree together..as the common proverbe is, like harpe and harrow, or like the hare and the hound.
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5. Irritable, querulous; childishly fretful; characterized by or exhibiting petty bad temper.
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a. Of people.In early quots. often referred to as the result of fasting or performing a religious observance of similar rigour.
c1530 Hickscorner D iij And I sholde do after youre schole, To lerne to patter to make me peuysshe [?1515 peuysse].
1600 W. Shakespeare Merchant of Venice i. i. 86 Why should a man whose blood is warme within, Sit like his grandsire, cut in Alablaster?..And creep into the Iaundies By beeing peeuish?
1653 Bp. J. Taylor Ενιαυτος: Course of Serm. xxxix Some men fast to mortifie their lust: and their fasting makes them peevish.
1655 in E. Nicholas Nicholas Papers (1897) III. 128 He is uery peuish to Mr. Ouerton and will tell him uery litle.
1702 J. Floyer Anc. Ψυχρολουσία Revived iii. 71 The People grew peevish with all Ancient Ceremonies.
1759 S. Fielding Hist. Countess of Dellwyn I. i. xiv. 149 Now when he was peevish with Pain, and ready to take fire at every the least Provocation, this spirited Reply of his Lady's roused him to Anger.
1786 A. M. Bennett Juvenile Indiscretions V. 216 A peevish discontented sister and her cormorant companion.
1824 W. Irving Tales of Traveller II. 30 A terrible peevish fractious fellow.
1862 B. Brodie Psychol. Inq. II. iii. 77 One whose state of health renders him fretful and peevish in his own family.
1948 ‘R. Crompton’ Family Roundabout xxii. 248 I'm sorry, Arnold, I'm a little peevish today. Yes, I'll go with you.
1956 R. Macaulay Towers of Trebizond xxv. 282 People got peevish, they began hooting and cutting in.
1983 E. Figes Light i. 2 She turned in the bed, sighing, slightly peevish and resentful.
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b. Of personal qualities, actions, behaviour, etc.
1577 W. Fulke Answer True Christian 89 in Two Treat. against Papistes Without any contention of peuishe enuie.
1650 T. Fuller Pisgah-sight of Palestine iv. iii. 57 Gods providence on purpose permitted Moses to fall into this peevish passion [at Kadesh].
a1677 I. Barrow Serm. Several Occasions (1678) 28 A peevish crosness and obstinate repugnancy to received laws.
1711 R. Steele Spectator No. 107. ⁋1 Unapt to vent peevish Expressions.
1768 D. Garrick Let. 19 Feb. (1963) II. 595 I am Surpriz'd that You have not thank'd the Managers for their kindness instead of writing so peevish a Letter.
1822 W. Hazlitt Table-talk II. iv. 73 With a peevish whine in his voice like a beaten school-boy.
1891 Harper's Mag. Dec. 123/2 His tone was so peevish and impatient that I thought discussion was injudicious.
1922 M. Sinclair Life & Death Harriett Frean xiv. 171 She no longer enjoyed visiting her friends. She set out in peevish resignation.
2003 Daily Mail (Nexis) 9 Dec. 28 Her peevish tone quite spoiled the effect of a comic costume she had selected for the day.
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†6. English regional (northern). Clever, expert. Obsolete.
1673 J. Ray N. Countrey Words in Coll. Eng. Words 37 Peevish, witty, subtill.
1710 T. Ruddiman in G. Douglas tr. Virgil Æneis (new ed.) Gloss. (at cited word) The word peevish among the vulgar of Scotland is used for niggardly, covetous; in the North of England, for witty, subtile.
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7. Canadian and English regional (northern). Of the wind: sharp, piercing, bitter. Of the weather: windy, blustery.
1744 J. Armstrong Art of preserving Health i. 17 The ridge..defends you from the blust'ring north, And bleak affliction of the peevish east.
1828 W. Carr Dial. Craven (ed. 2) Peevish, piercing, very cold; a peevish wind.
1863 Mrs. Toogood Specim. Yorks. Dial. The wind is very peevish to night.
1927 L. M. Montgomery Emily's Quest 174 Something has happened to sour February's temper. Such a peevish month.
1990 D. McIntosh Visits 119 It was dark when the train arrived in Charlottetown... It was raw and blustery—peevish, they say on the island.
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†B. adv.
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= peevishly adv. Obsolete. rare.
a1529 J. Skelton Tunnyng of Elynour Rummyng in Certayne Bks. (?1545) 589 She was not halfe so wyse As she was peuysshe nyse [= foolishly particular].
1602 W. Shakespeare Richard III iv. iv. 348 Be not peeuish fond in great designes. [1597 pieuish, fond; 1598 peeuish, fond; Malone conjectured peevish-fond, the reading adopted in many modern editions; the Arden ed. prefers ‘peevish found’.]
I'm sure Urban Dictionary is all user generated, ie readers can enter whatever meaning/origin they like and it all goes on the website.Yes. There is an up and down-voting system but people might upvote (or downvote) a word for all sorts of reasons other than accuracy.
I'm sure Urban Dictionary is all user generated, ie readers can enter whatever meaning/origin they like and it all goes on the website.Yes. There is an up and down-voting system but people might upvote (or downvote) a word for all sorts of reasons other than accuracy.
Or log in with a library card number, https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/139746?
Re Peeve, Tees who sets crosswords in the Independent had a clue last year: Vex Gove (5)
Took me a lot of head-scratching to crack that one.
The intended meaning is obvious enough. That doesn’t mean I have to like it.I'm guessing the meaning of the second term isn't this one either
And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;although it could be.
There is a part of Bristol called Troopers Hill. Or is it Troopers' Hill? Or maybe Trooper's Hill? The answer is predictably yes, yes and yes:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUJ3khSXoAAXwZj?format=jpg&name=small)
:), :D and ;D
Then again, I know plenty of British people who don't know the difference between "grocers" and "greengrocers".
Stopped by an American couple in their 60s and asked for directions this morning. "Is there a food market along this road?" "A market?" "Yeah, just a small one." Oh, a shop! There is a food market a few roads away but it's only on Saturday mornings. Two little grocery shops up here and then left though.
It is certainly true that the coups have led to a massive out-migration of Fijian Indians, whose share in the population has fallen from 50% in the late 1980s to only about 34% now.Or perhaps there's a subtle difference between the original emigration from India to Fiji and the later out-migration from Fiji to (Australia, US, etc)?
Not at all cringe, but I'm wondering if 'out-migration' and 'in-migration' are standard Australian usage in place of 'emigration' and 'immigration'?QuoteIt is certainly true that the coups have led to a massive out-migration of Fijian Indians, whose share in the population has fallen from 50% in the late 1980s to only about 34% now.Or perhaps there's a subtle difference between the original emigration from India to Fiji and the later out-migration from Fiji to (Australia, US, etc)?
Stopped by an American couple in their 60s and asked for directions this morning. "Is there a food market along this road?" "A market?" "Yeah, just a small one." Oh, a shop! There is a food market a few roads away but it's only on Saturday mornings. Two little grocery shops up here and then left though.
They should go to Finland. One of the biggest supermarket chains is K-Market. And that's the name which is proudly displayed above their premises. Except their really really big ones which call themselves K-Supermarket.
Wherever you are in Finland, you can find the K-Market. It's opposite the S-Market, its big rival.
Meanwhile, I need the brain sanitation dept.'s attention after listening to 5 minutes of the Artemis would-be launch commentary the other day. It went something like this: "the LOX-tank team communicate that they are holding in a liquid-oxygen-flow-suspended situation. They are currently not flowing oxygen into the tank." :sick:
My brief, and notably unsuccessful, foray into rocket engineering featured a piece of software called Bristol Rocket Enthusiasts' Altitude Speed and Trajectory Simulation. It may have needed a re-write to account for negative altitude at the end of flight. (I was a lowly E&EE first year, and therefore given the minor task of making the parachutes deploy without using any stuff-wot-goes-BOOM.)
My brief, and notably unsuccessful, foray into rocket engineering featured a piece of software called Bristol Rocket Enthusiasts' Altitude Speed and Trajectory Simulation. It may have needed a re-write to account for negative altitude at the end of flight. (I was a lowly E&EE first year, and therefore given the minor task of making the parachutes deploy without using any stuff-wot-goes-BOOM.)
Betcha enjoyed it though.
What's the Law got so say about amateur rocketry? You can get done here for owning a gas-powered drainpipe spud-bazooka.
For me, there are three items in A, B, C or D, but four items in A, B, C and D, with or without an extra comma. Are the Americans confused between the meanings of "and" and "or" ?
I think there are several valid interpretations of "A, B, C or D":
{A} OR {B} OR {C} OR {D} : "Would you like red wine, white wine, orange juice or water?" (not an invitation to be greedy)
{A,B,C} OR {D} : "Rock, paper, scissors, or toss a coin?" (don't think I'd want to play a game of "scissors or toss a coin")
{A,B, {C OR D}} : "Lasagna, seasonal vegetables, chips or boiled potatoes" (A favourite of all pubs before they went gastro)
I would tend to assume the first unless context suggests otherwise.
With "and", there is little ambiguity as conjunction is associative: {{A AND B} AND C} is equivalent to {A AND {B AND C}}
{A,B, {C OR D}} : "Lasagna, seasonal vegetables; chips or boiled potatoes" (A favourite of all pubs before they went gastro)
My brief, and notably unsuccessful, foray into rocket engineering featured a piece of software called Bristol Rocket Enthusiasts' Altitude Speed and Trajectory Simulation. It may have needed a re-write to account for negative altitude at the end of flight. (I was a lowly E&EE first year, and therefore given the minor task of making the parachutes deploy without using any stuff-wot-goes-BOOM.)During my YinI at BNFL Magnox Generation, I grappled with a FORTRAN-based code known as PWR and AGR Neutronic and Thermal Hydraulics Evaluation Route, or PANTHER for short. There was a sequel to PANTHER called Panther Update for Magnox Application.
I think there are several valid interpretations of "A, B, C or D":I don't understand that argument at all. The list construction is separate from the choice of "and" or "or". That choice tells you how you are combining the list elements. The list construction is there to make clear what the elements are. If you want three choices, such as:
I dunno, a warning during or after an event is certainly a thing, and depending on the nature of the event, potentially useful. Fire alarms, for example.
Warning is explicitly defined in dictionaries as something that comes before the event.
Warning, this vehicle is reversing
So this"Warning, this vehicle will be reversing and no one shall save me"QuoteWarning, this vehicle is reversing
Should be "will be reversing"?
So thisQuoteWarning, this vehicle is reversing
Should be "will be reversing"?
Do not use any contradictions (it’s=it is).
From a style guide:QuoteDo not use any contradictions (it’s=it is).
It’s like those signs that say “advance warning” to differentiate from a warning after the event.I can live with that as a concise way of expressing the idea of a, "warning well in advance" rather than one immediately or very shortly before the event, but what *really* irritates are those signs saying, "advanced warning". Advanced, eh? Does it have a first degree or a PhD perhaps?
Some eejit cook on YouTube continually placing stuff into receptacles instead of in them.
"Get go" or should it be "get-go"?
Whatever.
Just fucking stop it.
"Start" or "beginning" are perfect good English words. Use them.
At some point, "get go" and "get-go" will be.Doesn't make it any less ugly and cringe inducing so NickNack is quite entitled to his express his ire, but, given the way language works, there is every reason to hope that it, like many other fashionable, slang even "formal" words and phrases before, will wither and die.
Quote from: Slave To The VikingAt some point, "get go" and "get-go" will be.Doesn't make it any less ugly and cringe inducing so NickNack is quite entitled to his express his ire, but, given the way language works, there is every reason to hope that it, like many other fashionable, slang even "formal" words and phrases before, will wither and die.
No matter where I roam
I will return to my English rose
For no bonds can ever tempt me from she.
How come you've got this far and only just noticed it's all 'empty snobbery masquerading as taste'? I thought that was the point.
NickNack is the best judge of what makes him cringe - they don't need a qualification.
How come you've got this far and only just noticed it's all 'empty snobbery masquerading as taste'? I thought that was the point.
NickNack is the best judge of what makes him cringe - they don't need a qualification.Indeed.
It’s like those signs that say “advance warning” to differentiate from a warning after the event.There's warning, advance warning and now pre-warning:
Programme Yarrow prepares for a situation where power is unavailable, without any pre-warning, to all premises without backup generators during winter.https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/01/government-tests-energy-blackout-emergency-plans-as-supply-fears-grow
Whereas a can see a use for "advance warning", "pre-warning" is just wrong. Do they mean "prior warning" (in which case, we're back to "advance warning")? "Pre-warning" sounds like something that comes before a warning. But what would that be?
Not grammar, but this seems the best home for this piece of nonsense.
Independent's web site, today.(https://i.ibb.co/W0X5wwt/Idiots-At-Indy.png)
> "Coronated" doesn't make you cringe?"That's no way to speak of your King.
That's exactly why it I posted it, but I can't nail it as grammatically incorrect, merely ugly and stupid.
The relevance of the witness can only be assessed, against what you pre-announce that potentially could be heard.Perhaps the relevance could be post-announced after the witness has been heard?
Waves Tim in the general direction of the, "Monty Python Quotes for all Occasions" thread. :)> "Coronated" doesn't make you cringe?"That's no way to speak of your King.
That's exactly why it I posted it, but I can't nail it as grammatically incorrect, merely ugly and stupid.
"... is due be coronated ..."Bristol?
Where's the 'to' ?
;D :thumbsup:"... is due be coronated ..."Bristol?
Where's the 'to' ?
poultry farmers face rising costs for chicken feedEconomic developments that might have larger impact on the language we use....
There are situations where you have to share information in a non-paperless way, so I do feel they still serve a purpose.I feel there has to be a situation in which 'non-paperless' does not necessarily mean 'on paper' but I can't think of it. I'm going to look for the answer in the posts below...
QuoteThere are situations where you have to share information in a non-paperless way, so I do feel they still serve a purpose.I feel there has to be a situation in which 'non-paperless' does not necessarily mean 'on paper' but I can't think of it. I'm going to look for the answer in the posts below...
"King Charles's encoronisationment will take place on 5th May."
...a photo of a staff member wearing a name tag “Gemma” followed by “she/her/hers” (grammarians generally add the possessive to pronoun groups, though most badges use only two).This could got complicated. "Where's Gemma?" "I haven't seen them, but she's left his phone on the desk."
When are the next train strikes?
Staff at Network Rail represented by the RMT are set to walk out on Saturday 24 December at 6pm. They will remain on strike through Tuesday 27 December.
This strike involves workers who maintain railways, such as signallers and maintenance workers.
Not grammar but...Bung the author (or authorer?) a fiver to get them not to do it again.
This came up in an online training course I'm having to do for work:
"the offeror or giver must intend the offeree or recipient to act as a result of the bribe"
:sick:
Not grammar but...Bung the author (or authorer?) a
This came up in an online training course I'm having to do for work:
"the offeror or giver must intend the offeree or recipient to act as a result of the bribe"
:sick:fiverblow to the skull with your stoutest knobkerrie to get them not to do it again.
Something that always grates with me, is things ‘going extinct’. What’s wrong / incorrect about them ‘becoming extinct’?
Something that always grates with me, is things ‘going extinct’. What’s wrong / incorrect about them ‘becoming extinct’?
Greater Manchester police said it was about 10am that officers started a pursuit of the vehicle.
Pelé, who had a colon tumour removed in 2021, was readmitted to Albert Einstein hospital in São Paulo in November amid deteriorating health.
The Library of the Lace Guild needs your help!
We have several copies of the Fuselliamo Magazine that we don't have,
Is Fuselliamo FOREIGN for piling swivel, which in their case they have not got?QuoteThe Library of the Lace Guild needs your help!
We have several copies of the Fuselliamo Magazine that we don't have,
???
Wales weather: Avoid water plea after rain and flood warnings
Anyone else find this BBC headline befuddling?Not particularly, but maybe I would if I haven't been forewarned. Headlines have their own particular grammar anyway, only loosely related to that of English.QuoteWales weather: Avoid water plea after rain and flood warnings
In China, parts of the Yangtze River, whose surrounding provinces produce 45% of the country's economic output, were closed to ships because water levels were more than 50% below average.Wouldn't "less than 50% of average" be clearer than "more than 50% below average"?
I haven't yet, and might well not, searched for this.Ugh! What a fugly, badly written sentence. Time to shame the guilty:
If "unenjoyable" is rare than the Graunaid must be using some rather disappointing dictionaries.
Actually, I think it's that "unenjoyable" and "derivativeness", although they might be infrequently used, are basically simple. If you know the word "joy" you'll understand "unenjoyable" on first encountering it, and be able to make other derivations as well: there might be only two other people in the world who use the word "unenjoyability" and it might make billions wince, but it's pretty clear what you're trying to say – whereas there's nothing simple or common about "ebullition" or "argentiferous".
Sorry, no results as this time. Please double check your spelling or consider less search terms.
It is her vision and creativity that saw Ann Summers grow from an unknown brand to a British household name and stable of the British high street.
The paper is pulped and then injected between two wire meshes to make it paper thin.I don't know if 'paper thin' is a conscious choice, which at least means one person is laughing, or just lazy fall-back.
King Charles Coronation: George VI's chair recycled for enthronementhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65447193
QuoteKing Charles Coronation: George VI's chair recycled for enthronementhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65447193
It's not recycled, it's reused FFS!
Prime opportunity to install a royal whoopee cushion, anyway...
Previous consorts have always had a new crown commissioned, but Buckingham Palace is keen to emphasise the decision to recycle one from the family’s sprawling collection “in the interests of sustainability and efficiency”.https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/may/02/charles-ping-pong-ball-crown-shocking-history-royal-headwear-bling
Camilla to wear recycled crown without Koh-i-Noor diamond at coronationhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/14/camilla-wear-queen-mary-crown-coronation
The Australians have an interesting way with words, apparently (it’s on the BBC website but I’m being generous and assuming it’s verbatim from the original) two salt water crocodiles were “euthanised” so they could be cut up and the body parts of a missing fisherman recovered.
No disrespect, but - going forward - it would be advisable not to start sentences with the word "So".This has been pissing me off for years (see upthread) and has reached epidemic status. It's not just a filler word - "umm" would do just fine for that. It's pretentious and deeply irritating. It's even regularly cropping up in the written form. Why?
QuoteNo disrespect, but - going forward - it would be advisable not to start sentences with the word "So".This has been pissing me off for years (see upthread) and has reached epidemic status. It's not just a filler word - "umm" would do just fine for that. It's pretentious and deeply irritating. It's even regularly cropping up in the written form. Why?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65634829 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65634829)
Why do we start a sentence with so?
Some people start a sentence with "so" to indicate that the listener is a bit of a simpleton, so the speaker will use appropriately uncomplicated words. If this is so, more people should be annoyed. "So" may also indicate that the speech that follows has been rehearsed.
A Post Office spokesperson described it as a "historic document" but said the organisation did not tolerate racism "in any shape or form" and condemned the "abhorrent" language.
QuoteNo disrespect, but - going forward - it would be advisable not to start sentences with the word "So".This has been pissing me off for years (see upthread) and has reached epidemic status. It's not just a filler word - "umm" would do just fine for that. It's pretentious and deeply irritating. It's even regularly cropping up in the written form. Why?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65634829 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65634829)
- Yes, but...
- Look, Kelly's a wrong 'un.
That's enough.
Yeah, but he's a marshal, ain't he?
So he gets a posse together, like.
And they all go up to this, um,
canyon sort of thing.
You know, up in the hills, like.
Clobber, I wonder if you could try
a wee experiment for me.
Oh, yeah, I'll do anything
for you, like, Pauley.
I mean, you're my mate, ain't you, like?
Well... Well, would you just try to complete
a sentence without saying "like".
You mean, like, uh...
- you don't want me to say "like"?
- Aye. Aye.
6. colloquial.
a. Used conversationally to qualify a preceding (or in later use also following) statement, suggesting that the statement is approximate, or signifying a degree of uncertainty on the part of the speaker as to whether an expression is pertinent or acceptable: ‘as it were’, ‘so to speak’, ‘in a manner of speaking’. Also used simply as a filler, or as an intensifier used to focus attention on the statement retrospectively.
Overlapping with sense B. 6b when used as an intensifier or filler.
1778 F. Burney Evelina II. xxiii. 222 Father grew quite uneasy, like, for fear of his Lordship's taking offence.
1801 ‘Gabrielli’ Mysterious Husband III. 252 Of a sudden like.
1815 W. Scott Guy Mannering I. vi. 96 The lady, on ilka Christmas night..gae twelve siller pennies to ilka puir body about, in honour of the twelve apostles like.
1840 T. De Quincey Style: No. II in Blackwood's Edinb. Mag. Sept. 398/1 Why like, it's gaily nigh like, to four mile like.
1929 ‘H. Green’ Living vi. 57 'E went to the side like and looked.
1966 Lancet 17 Sept. 635/2 As we say pragmatically in Huddersfield, ‘C'est la vie, like!’
1981 W. Russell Educating Rita ii. iii. 44 There's always a like—erm—erm..a like vein.
2003 C. Birch Turn again Home x. 142 ‘'Preciate your concern, Nelly,’ he said, ‘only it's easier said than done, like.’
b. Originally U.S. Used as a marker, intensifier, or filler in conversation or spoken discourse to introduce or focus attention on a following statement or question. Also used in written discourse which has an informal, conversational tone.
1950 Neurotica Autumn 45 Like how much can you lay on [i.e. give] me?
1959 She May 21/2 Like wow…wonderful.
1971 Black Scholar Apr. 26/1 Man like the dude really flashed his hole card.
1976 National Observer (U.S.) 17 July 1/3 Like, this was at 11 or 12 years old.
2011 S. Webb Love & Other Drama Ramas (2014) iii. 28 ‘Everyone, like, back,’ Annabelle,..commands in her recently acquired quasi-Californian accent.
c. spec. Used with a verb introducing reported speech or thoughts reported as if speech (cf. think v.2 1b). Now esp. in to be like at Phrases 8.
Often presented as distinctive of the speech of Valley Girls (see valley n. Compounds 1a(b) and cf. quot. 1982 at Phrases 8).
1970 Time 31 Aug. 19 Afterward, a girl came up to me and said, ‘You kinda look interested in this; did you know there are civil rights for women?’ And I thought like wow, this is for me.
1978 Proc. 6th Southwest Areal Lang. & Linguistics Workshop 71 She goes like, ‘Yeah, you got one minute.’
1993 J. Deppa Media & Disasters i. ii. 53 I said like ‘No, no way,’ and he said, ‘Yes.’
2003 A. G. Koss Cheat 162 But I go, like, ‘Get a life, twit. It's got nothing to do with you!’
Idly inserting "so" as a vocal tic is maybe irritating and can sound a bit vapid, maybe, but only if delivered in a vapid voice. Pretentious though? Not really. At the very least, I'd say its fair to ask for a justification for that assertion.
And why can't they say nommed instead of predated, hmm?
Idly inserting "so" as a vocal tic is maybe irritating and can sound a bit vapid, maybe, but only if delivered in a vapid voice. Pretentious though? Not really. At the very least, I'd say its fair to ask for a justification for that assertion.
Perhaps patronising would be a better description than pretentious. It implies that the user is about to impart information that may need to be simplified in order for the listener to comprehend. That is certainly its origin in the tech industry.
BTW, it's clearly not used as "a summation of what's been explained or discussed" when it's used at the start of any and every answer to any question about anything.
It's mildly irritating, but not as irritating as the Q&A session I attended recently where the person preceded every single answer with "That's a really good question, ". Every single answer, for an hour.
...I stuck a pencil in my eye as penance.
"That's a really good question" tends to mean "I have no idea how to answer that question, so I'm going to talk about something else."Or even "I have no idea how to answer that question. So, I'm going to talk about something else."
...I stuck a pencil in my eye as penance.
I don't see the point in that.
...I stuck a pencil in my eye as penance.
I don't see the point in that.
...5am in the morning...
Quote from: redacted...5am in the morning...
Well it wouldn't be in the ruddy afternoon, would it? :demon:
the reverting to the traditional British spelling of "ize" (the one that the Americans never replaced with "ise").
According to TV's Cam Donald we could visually see how hard $RIDER was trying during the Superbike TT. I'll cut Mr Donald some slack just this once, since he’s a Colonial, but do it again, laddie, and it's a Reëducation Camp for you.
So, it would appear that - despite its harmlessness and semantic equivalence to acceptable turns of phrase - we must not begin a sentence thus.
the reverting to the traditional British spelling of "ize" (the one that the Americans never replaced with "ise").
What? there's an instance of "ize" that we missed over here? I never realized that.
the people who taxidermy their pets
BBC News is reporting that the missing submarine 'has only several hours of oxygen remaining'. Is it just me who thinks that 'several' is a really clunky word to use in this instance?
Mr's Thatcher
I think I found the all-time greatest apostrophail ever in a Farcebok comment just now:Zoinks. I'd like to suspect a deliberate act.QuoteMr's Thatcher
:facepalm:
Yes, it oughtta be 'taxidermify' if it's a verb.Greyhound fur tuxedo?
I'll get my dog-skin coat.
“Super” – meaning “very” – appears to have infected the world of tennis.
“Super” – meaning “very” – appears to have infected the world of tennis.
Won't be long before they'll be going full gas, for sure.
“Super” – meaning “very” – appears to have infected the world of tennis.
Won't be long before they'll be going full gas, for sure.
Though they don’t actually go anywhere, so there isn’t a long way to go. Still, anything can happen. We will see.
...An anonymised witness...
The consumer group Unilever, which owns brands including Cornetto ice-cream and Dove soap
consumer group
noun
an organization that works to protect the rights and interests of people who buy things or use services, especially by making sure that businesses act fairly, that products are safe, and that advertising is honest
When I was a comparatively old man in a primarily young team, about 12 years ago, I used to keep a secret list of things that my colleagues had described as 'awesome', most of which I would have thought of as barely 'good' let alone awe-inspiring (though there was a fair bit of obviously ironic use as well). I don't think I've heard it for a while now but am no longer in that setting. Has it gone completely?
Anyone else noticed lots of '100%s'?
When I was a comparatively old man in a primarily young team, about 12 years ago, I used to keep a secret list of things that my colleagues had described as 'awesome', most of which I would have thought of as barely 'good' let alone awe-inspiring (though there was a fair bit of obviously ironic use as well). I don't think I've heard it for a while now but am no longer in that setting. Has it gone completely?
I believe 'awesome' was replaced by the short-lived 'mega' in about 1991.
The current term appears to be 'sick' or possibly 'dank' (with the disclaimer I'm far too old to get this right).
"Are you using the right bog roll? Here's how to tell."
non life-threatening electrocution injuries
The sounds of American suburbia now featuring the falling kleen canteen/hydroflask 1L as it pachinkos down from the top row of aluminum bleachers.
Hampshire villagers bring street’s apostrophe catastrophe to a full stop (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/17/hampshire-villagers-bring-streets-apostrophe-catastrophe-to-a-full-stop)
He set out the position thus: “Clear and unambiguous street and place names are vital for postal and other delivery services and also for the emergency services, and punctuation can make that more difficult, particularly with modern computer systems.”True. But meh. Is any 999 driver or postie going to ignore St Marys Terrace because they're looking for St Mary's Terrace, or vice versa? I think not. I'm sure that county councils have enough real needs to spend their insufficient funds on without dealing with grumpy grammarians.
Hampshire villagers bring street’s apostrophe catastrophe to a full stop (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/17/hampshire-villagers-bring-streets-apostrophe-catastrophe-to-a-full-stop)QuoteHe set out the position thus: “Clear and unambiguous street and place names are vital for postal and other delivery services and also for the emergency services, and punctuation can make that more difficult, particularly with modern computer systems.”True. But meh. Is any 999 driver or postie going to ignore St Marys Terrace because they're looking for St Mary's Terrace, or vice versa? I think not. I'm sure that county councils have enough real needs to spend their insufficient funds on without dealing with grumpy grammarians.
Perpendicular Road has to be a real name somewhere. We have a Circular Road in Bristol (which no one lives on) but if you google "perpendicular road bristol" it gives you this (https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/vale-street).
Phew! What a relief. All we have to do to prevent the machines taking over is use punctuation marks correctly.QuoteHe set out the position thus: “... punctuation can make that more difficult, particularly with modern computer systems.”
I'm wondering whether Perpendicular Road should cross Parallel Avenue at right angles or run alongside it. Either combination is likely to result in Tardis geometry.
Not grammer but didn't want to let this go:-
"Good play from Everton that's what I expect to see. Trying to attack with a bit of fast play and not working, reverberating the ball, regenerating it and moving it into wide positions."
Leon Osman, BBC stundit on Everton v Manchester United.
When did "Can I get?" replace "Please may I have" when talking to salespersons in retail/catering?
Me: "Would you like a cuppa?"
Colleague: "Yeah. Can I get no sugar?"
Me: "Er... I don't know. Can you?"
However, linguist Gareth Rees put us all right on 26th November (coincidence!) 2013
Start here (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg1600762#msg1600762)
She wasn't grumpy - just objected to the lack of "please"; I didn't like "can" - the kitchen was private and so he couldn't.
When did "Can I get?" replace "Please may I have" when talking to salespersons in retail/catering?
26th Nov 2010 in this thread.Me: "Would you like a cuppa?"
Colleague: "Yeah. Can I get no sugar?"
Me: "Er... I don't know. Can you?"
However, linguist Gareth Rees put us all right on 26th November (coincidence!) 2013
Start here (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2205.msg1600762#msg1600762)
I'm hitting Peak Pedantry here ;D
Not least because of the way he has broadened out his generic criticism to specific broadcasters, who have then had to face the wrath of his 2.7 million social media followers.Surely going from generic to specific is narrowing down not broadening out?
New! Shiny! window graphics have been applied at my place of work, with company branding, line drawings of products ect ect. They look very nice.Chewing some sand paper should help with that.
Except two office doors are being labelled up with the names of the occupants like this: "Bob's Office". Except there's no apostrophe. It'll make my teeth itch every time I look at it.
New! Shiny! window graphics have been applied at my place of work, with company branding, line drawings of products ect ect. They look very nice.Chewing some sand paper should help with that.
Except two office doors are being labelled up with the names of the occupants like this: "Bob's Office". Except there's no apostrophe. It'll make my teeth itch every time I look at it.
New! Shiny! window graphics have been applied at my place of work, with company branding, line drawings of products ect ect. They look very nice.
Except two office doors are being labelled up with the names of the occupants like this: "Bob's Office". Except there's no apostrophe. It'll make my teeth itch every time I look at it.
My bold.New! Shiny! window graphics have been applied at my place of work, with company branding, line drawings of products ect ect. They look very nice.Chewing some sand paper should help with that.
Except two office doors are being labelled up with the names of the occupants like this: "Bob's Office". Except there's no apostrophe. It'll make my teeth itch every time I look at it.
Through gritted teeth.
As an aside, is that the sort of thing you're involved in? The window graphics that is, not abrasive tooth treatment.
I hope so. Although an apostrophe will spoil the line of the lettering.
Is it just me, or would others prefer "associated with" over "associated to"? I have a colleague who does stuff "associated to" other stuff all the time and it annoys me...
The plural noun premises used as a singular, as in "police were called to a premises", which I have even seen used by lawyers who should know better. Plural nouns take plural grammar.I was watching one of those rubbish Police Knicking Villains programmes the other day. One of the Boys in Blue kept referring to "a premise", which caused cringing.
The plural noun premises used as a singular, as in "police were called to a premises", which I have even seen used by lawyers who should know better. Plural nouns take plural grammar.
I hope so. Although an apostrophe will spoil the line of the lettering.
Talking of which…
From our 8th floor office window, we have an excellent view of the new Sadler’s Wells building going up in Stratford. You can tell it’s Sadler’s Wells because it says so in very large letters on the side.
The designers on our team have been gnashing their teeth for weeks over the appalling kerning of the sign - there’s a massive gap between the r and the apostrophe in Sadler’s.
I’m not a designer but even I find it really glaring and grating.
The plural noun premises used as a singular, as in "police were called to a premises", which I have even seen used by lawyers who should know better. Plural nouns take plural grammar.
As far as I am aware, whilst 'premises' is plural it can be used with a singular verb. I've seen it used quite frequently in planning applications.
Inevitably
There's a thread for that sort of thing (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=125125.0)
let me get back to you momentarily
The plural noun premises used as a singular, as in "police were called to a premises", which I have even seen used by lawyers who should know better. Plural nouns take plural grammar.
Survivors of the attack say they were hit by two HIMARS missiles, seen here being launched in May 2023
Chinese boats fire water at a Philippine vessel
Fire as a verb is not necessarily connected with conflagration. It was used in archery contexts before the arrival of gunpowder in Europe. Nevertheless, "shoot" would seem more appropriate in this context.QuoteChinese boats fire water at a Philippine vessel
Is that really the best verb? I'd accept 'shoot', and recognise that 'squirt' doesn't really convey the pressure involved (firefighting equipment being used as an offensive weapon).
As it has for many years in Somerset.Quotelet me get back to you momentarily
Seems in the USA momentarily means 'at any moment'.
Reading it is like chewing on a pumice stone.
Fire as a verb is not necessarily connected with conflagration. It was used in archery contexts before the arrival of gunpowder in Europe. Nevertheless, "shoot" would seem more appropriate in this context.QuoteChinese boats fire water at a Philippine vessel
Is that really the best verb? I'd accept 'shoot', and recognise that 'squirt' doesn't really convey the pressure involved (firefighting equipment being used as an offensive weapon).
I hate "passed" and "passed away" too but I've had people (young) specifically ask me to replace "died" with passed away when I did some sharing of news about a disabled mutual dying suddenly a few years back. They felt "died" was too harsh and didn't like to read it.
On it's way
Just ordered some Perfectly Good Gentleman's Mountain Bicycling shoes from (whisper it) Halfrauds*. On their order tracking page:QuoteOn it's way
Garrotting is too good for them.
* if they turn out to be a Rubbish TV's Nice C Boardman is in a world of hurt, or at least libel
Anne-Sophie Mutter Will Take a Break from Concertizing
QuoteAnne-Sophie Mutter Will Take a Break from Concertizing
AAAARGH!
It's just something I read somewhere, can't remember where but it was more about the word 'fire' than about archery. But I don't think the use of 'loose' (or any other term) among archers would mean that 'fire' wasn't used in general contexts. For instance, military archers could loose their arrows at the opposing army, who could liken the experience to 'fire' and from there the word could spread (I'm just speculating, obviously). In any case 'loose' in this sense is a sort of archers' jargon for 'shoot' (which I still think would have been the better word to use when the 'projectile' is water).Fire as a verb is not necessarily connected with conflagration. It was used in archery contexts before the arrival of gunpowder in Europe. Nevertheless, "shoot" would seem more appropriate in this context.QuoteChinese boats fire water at a Philippine vessel
Is that really the best verb? I'd accept 'shoot', and recognise that 'squirt' doesn't really convey the pressure involved (firefighting equipment being used as an offensive weapon).
Really?
Consensus among archery community is that 'loose' was the term used.
'fire' really doesn't make any sense in this context.
Deflagration is a new word for me. Win-win!
This is getting back to my earlier comment about railway companies wanting us to "alight" their trains. Not sure it would stop them from prosecuting us afterwards...
Due to misappropriation of its meaning, it is no longer appropriate to use the word 'inappropriate'.This is getting back to my earlier comment about railway companies wanting us to "alight" their trains. Not sure it would stop them from prosecuting us afterwards...
Current grammatical trends require prepositions to be either inappropriate or missing. No, not that appropriate, the real one.
I hate "passed" and "passed away" too but I've had people (young) specifically ask me to replace "died" with passed away when I did some sharing of news about a disabled mutual dying suddenly a few years back. They felt "died" was too harsh and didn't like to read it.
When the hospital called to tell us MrsT's mum had died the bloke was so flustered with trying to break it gently that he told me we could come when we liked to see her and collect her bougies (candles or spark-plugs) instead of bijoux (jewellery).
I can't remember now if it was the funeral director or the registrar of deaths, or possibly they both used the same phrase, who said, after my dad died, he was "Pleased to meet me and sorry it had to be under such circumstances". You're a funeral director, you meet people "under such circumstances" every day, and I'd probably never meet you under any others!
You have now been arrived to: Islington Caledonian, Caledonian P1, 102 for Electricity
Have you encountered <<software>> before?Nope? Are you flipping kidding me?
Answer
A) Yes, or
B) Nope
Richard Dimbleby’s account of what he witnessed at Bergen-Belsen in April 1945 has become infamous in Britain.
I had to do a training course for the new work time booking system.QuoteHave you encountered <<software>> before?Nope? Are you flipping kidding me?
Answer
A) Yes, or
B) Nope