Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => The Dark Side => Topic started by: Datbloke on 16 June, 2014, 07:00:03 am
-
Hi folks,
Came across YACF whilst doing some research on recumbent trikes and it seems like a good community with a solid base of knowledge and informed and fun people. Maybe some of you have come across some of the issues I'm trying to work through so I decided to sign up and ask ..
I suffer muscle atrophy which affects the back of my body and is very disabling, leading to spinal, pelvic and respiratory issues. The docs aren't getting far so after ten years of atrophy I'm down to walking relatively short distance with a stick and my spine is doing an impression of a chicane. I decided I needed to find a way to exercise, travel further than the local shops and gain the physical and psychological benefits that having a sense of being in charge (to some degree) over my health will bring.
And that's what started me looking at bent trikes: stability, support for my back and neck and building self-reliance through getting out there.
I've done a fair bit of research and I've gotten to ride on an ICE Adventure RS and a KMX Cobra.
The ICE Adventure RS was just amazing, can't begin to describe the sense of liberty trundling up Devon hills at 2mph and racing down them at 25 gave me ... but if you're reading this you probably already know that! The suspension meant no knocks to my back and spine, headrest gave essential neck support. Mesh seat was good for extra cushioning from knocks but maybe a hardshell would give better spine support, especially on turns?
I found the KMX Cobra to be far from comfortable: no suspension, box frame translated every groove in the road into painful shocks and the elevated front boom exacerbated pelvic/lumbar spine problems merely due to the angle between legs and body it created.
And so I find myself eyeing up the ICE website and catalogue, trying to refine options and working out where I'm going to get the moolah from.
There's a few things I'm going to need to add specifically to cope with my disabilities and I'm pretty sure I can get VAT exemption on those which will help. If I chose to get a Motobility car the whole thing would be exempt .. it's annoying me that the purchase of a trike for the purposes of rehab and improved mobility isn't fully exempt ... a car would get me around but not rebuild muscle (and I know a bent trike will, because even though I only managed three miles on my first out I felt the burn and my (lack of) aerobic fitness.
Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the potential for VAT exemption?
Also ICE are clearly fantastically well engineered but soooo pricey - and their US pricing policy I don't get: the Adventure RS is nearly £500 cheaper bought in $ rather than £. Yet I only live an hour from their factory!
So another question: is there anything out there comparable to ICE in terms of design, engineering and build quality that you would advise considering?
I've seen a lot of "Performa" bent trikes on eBay from Australia that on the surface have many of the same features for half or even one third the cost - does anyone have first hand experience of this manufacturer?
I'm going to take a train to Falmouth and see the guys at ICE hopefully so I can try Adventure vs Sprint models and also the hardshell seat and talk things through with them.
Any other general or specific advice you can offer from first hand experience would be welcomed. It strikes me from reading this and other forums that many people buying recumbent trikes are doing so for health reasons or disability - though I'm sure many fully able and healthy people just love them too.
Oh! Last thought: front suspension - use value over maintenance pita?
Kind regards,
Matthew
(Hilly South Devon)
-
Hi Matthew,
The guys at ICE will be brilliant with you and my advice is, if you can possibly scrape together the moolah then go for the ICE - their customer service is unbeatable and their trikes brill (I have done 25,000 miles in one and 20,000 in another, read all about it at www.auntiehelen.co.uk).
I would avoid KMX (but you've probably already decided this). Other options are the HP Velotechnik Skorpion from Germany (also pricey but current exchange rate might help) and the Steintrikes Wild One from Austria which has cracking suspension but you don't see in the UK. I have experience with these two but not the Catrike and the Greenspeeds which others might recommend. Avoid TW Bents and KMX.
as for front suspension, I didn't think it necessary for me but with your back it might be helpful, although the main jiggling without it seems to be to my teeth!
VAT exemption is indeed possible - Kim on here was able to get this for a new ICE sprint but she bought from a dealer, not ICE directly, as they didn't handle this themselves. She will probably be along in due course.
The $ amount might be because the pound is really strong at the moment - I'm getting 1.25€ to £1 at the moment, a few months ago it was 1.18€. for an expensive trike this adds up to quite a difference!
Good luck, you won't regret an ICE. Have you thought about second hand?
-
Hi Helen,
Thanks for your speedy and helpful reply :)
All things considered if I can get an ICE I will, if for no other reason than being an hour from the factory means troubles can be rectified more simply than with a bike from far afield.
I saw Kim (I think) had written this in a post about fitting a Falco motor (something else on my ideal list):
This seemed like an excellent job for electric assist - to give a little more speed and make the local hills less of a barrier. And HMRC were paying.
Wasn't sure if that was exemption or due to employment at HMRC but figured an answer would come ....
I've read lots of your posts and they always seem full of sunshine, I'll pop over and take a read of your blog later.
Kindly,
Matthew
-
Hi Matthew,
I'm Kim's partner, the person she added the Falco motor for. I have various impairments in my shoulders/arms which make an upright bike very difficult to use and I have balance issues too so a trike was our ideal solution to get me onna bike. I also have issues with my hips (which I need to get sorted with medics but boring) so can't walk as far as I'd like but do keep myself walking 1-2km a day by walking to work which is about manageable for now
Kim will be along in a few hours and will be able to give you more detail (and links to past posts for a good old read).
We got my trike from London Recumbents who were able to give me VAT exemption because modified the trike for my use (put dual brakes on one side), I think I used my DLA letters as proof. I think you have to do some kind of mod for anyone to be able to give you VAT off but I know Kim did more research there.
HMRC "paid" for my trike's motor in the sense of them paying me £7,500 to "settle" when I sued them for disability discrimination last year. I don't know if we were able to get VAT off the motor cos of the specificity of use stuff.
Welcome to YACF you're in a good place where people in my experience have quite a lot of clue and are very disability friendly.
Natalya aka barakta
-
Hi Natalya,
Thanks for your reply - it sounds like we've got a lot of the same bits not working! My hips and shoulders are shot too ...
I've read lots of Kim's posts and enjoyed them - full of information and joy. Read through the whole Falco install and was very impressed. E-assist is on my ideal list, firstly because it's hilly down here and, secondly, because it would give me confidence to go further and feel I could get home safely. Ideally I'd build it in from scratch (or rather have it installed) but .. All comes down to cost and what I can realistically afford.
Sorry to hear you were discriminated against and glad to hear you got your dues from them.
Kindly,
Matthew
-
Matthew, I was talking with ICE at SPEZI (the German weird bike exhibition) in April - they conveniently came to fairly near me! - and I specifically talked electric assist with them as it's something that's clearly going to be significant in the future. At the moment about 50% of all bikes sold in Germany (normal bikes) have e-assist and there are charging stations everywhere, including in my local village.
Anyway, Elliot at ICE said they hadn't yet found an e-assist option that was bombproof enough for them to sell with the trikes but they had recently been trying out something (I don't know what) that looked like it might work out. So it's clearly something they're working on at the moment. They'll obviously be able to update you with where they are now at.
I did see some e-assist ICE trikes that ICLETTA (the German distributor) had as they tend to buy in the trikes from ICE and change bits anyway before they sell them on (they have an obsession about changing the idler and they also like to fit SRAM Dual-drive hub gears in the back to go with the derailleur so there is just a single chainring on the front, or a Rohloff). Anyway, they had an e-assist Adventure on the stand too and it was interesting to see that the batteries were fitted very low down, which I guess helps the centre of gravity. The guy at ICE looked slightly less than delighted with the option they had chosen but ICE are very picky about quality!
I am sure that everyone at ICE will be very helpful to you as they've always been brilliant with me. Good luck with the VAT thing!
-
We got my trike from London Recumbents who were able to give me VAT exemption because modified the trike for my use (put dual brakes on one side), I think I used my DLA letters as proof. I think you have to do some kind of mod for anyone to be able to give you VAT off but I know Kim did more research there.
Yes, you needed a disability-specific modification to qualify for a VAT exemption, which is silly when an unmodified trike is what's needed for your disability. For reference, barakta's has modified hand controls - both front brakes on one lever on the right hand side, twist grip and bar end shifter (itself modified for extra leverage) on that side too, and creative use of a mountain bike bar end on the left to serve as a hand rest. After chatting to London Recumbents, they were willing to bend the rules and sell us the trike as a kit of parts, so I could do the modifications myself (taking time with barakta to get the angles right and so on, rather than doing the work and us potentially having to alter things anyway).
I'm not sure, but suspect the rules on VAT exemptions have tightened since then, and may only apply to the cost of the modification itself. Otherwise the usual dodge for someone with a condition like yours would be to fit a device for carrying walking sticks...
HMRC "paid" for my trike's motor in the sense of them paying me £7,500 to "settle" when I sued them for disability discrimination last year. I don't know if we were able to get VAT off the motor cos of the specificity of use stuff.
No VAT off the motor. I didn't even bother asking. There may have been a mistake on the customs declaration for the battery that lead to less duty charges. I couldn't possibly comment. ::-)
I think ICE are leaning towards mid-drive motors (ie. those that provide drive through the chain and gears) for their e-assist, which makes a lot of engineering sense. Barakta and I opted for a hub motor on the basis that it's much simpler (a wheel-swap) to remove the electrickery when desired. I'm not surprised that the batteries were fitted low down on a ICLETTA modified version - having a large[1] battery high up on the rear luggage rack like barakta's has ruins the cornering stability of the trike (we decided this was an acceptable compromise for the convenience of ease of battery removal, as we have to carry the trike through a doorway every time we use it).
More generally, I second Auntie Helen's advice to try and get a test ride on a Scorpion. I ride a HPVelotechnik Strreetmachine (its bicycle relative), and while HPV don't know the meaning of 'lightweight', they really know their suspension systems. Probably worth having a go on a Catrike too, if only to get a feel for the difference that direct steering makes.
If getting in and out of a low seat is an issue then you'll probably prefer the ICE Adventure over the Sprint, in spite of the sprint having better handling on the downhills. By the same logic, it might be worth considering delta trikes like the Kettwiesel, which have an even higher riding position. Again, a Kettwiesel's one of those that's worth having a play with just to appreciate the different handling - the long wheelbase delta geometry means it can turn on a sixpence - awesome fun.
Hardshell vs mesh seats is another one to consider. Hardshell has to be *just right* to be properly comfortable (so you'll probably end up fiddling about adding and removing foam padding), but is more supportive when you do get it right. Mesh (at least a highly adjustable design like ICE's) is easier to tweak, and ventilates better, but you'll probably find yourself having to tighten up straps occasionally. A thick Ventisit pad will probably provide the same sort of suspension effect with a hardshell seat as you get from mesh (it's by far the best seat pad material from a moisture perspective too). I haven't ridden a trike with a hardshell seat, so I can't really comment about the effect of sideways forces when cornering - that's not an issue on a bike.
[1] Barakta's battery is unusually large, at about 12.5kg (including case and electronics). I wanted her to have a 100km range, and we opted for a heavier battery chemistry that deteriorates less with use. Most off-the-shelf e-assist systems use much smaller batteries.
-
I haven't ridden a trike with a hardshell seat, so I can't really comment about the effect of sideways forces when cornering - that's not an issue on a bike.
I did just this a couple of days ago - I rode a Steintrikes Wild One trike with hard shell seat (with Ventisit pad on it).
I can confirm that it holds you fairly well in a straight line but if you're a lardarse lady like me, whose generous backside is hanging over both sides of the hard shell seat, cornering makes you feel like you might fall completely out. Which makes for an increased amusement factor but is not ideal. When I got back onto my ICE Sprint I realised how comfy its seat is!
-
Generous backsides are supposed to hang over the edges of a hardshell seat. It's how you get the best comedy chilblains, and isn't actually a falling-out problem - at least not on a bicycle.
I've noticed that a lot of trike hardshell seats have extra side pieces attached, presumably to reduce the sliding-out feeling on corners or silly cambers. Not sure how well that works with a generous backside, though. The owners have all been skinny blokes.
-
This is the problem - the usual owners of these vehicles are blokes who all have skinner arses anyway.
I found it quite hard to sit down onto the Wild One because of not having anything to hold on to (the front crosspiece is extremely complicated) and ended up landing in rather a hurry. If this was the ICE Vortex seat I would have smashed it into carbon smithereens.
This is the particular Wild One:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1OQWxfMfI8c/UNeAzZuwl_I/AAAAAAAACdc/6VPBOuVp-0g/s1600/IMAG0016.jpg)
This is a library shot - you'll see what I mean about the complex front suspension.
(http://www.bike-revolution.at/images/wildone18265.jpg)
The suspension works well (you can't get it up on two wheels) but makes the steering feel marginally less precise - getting back on the ICE Sprint after riding this felt really twitchy!
Look how unwide that seat is though - the problem with hard shells, I think. It was not comfortable riding with my backside spread across it as I was partially perched on two edge pieces of the seat.
I should probably attempt to remove some of the lard from the arse but there are too many nice cakes in Germany for this to be a likely option.
-
Thing with hardshells is they're not so much a chair as a device for supporting the spine/pelvis/shoulders while you push against the pedals. As with the saddle of an upright bike, what the lardy bits do is pretty much irrelevant. Feels weird at first, but it's fine once you get used to it (assuming of course that it fits properly and you're not sliding about - a badly fitting hardshell is almost as unpleasant as a badly fitting saddle).
Not having anything to hold onto as you get in and out of the seat can be a problem with tadpoles (the wheels can work if there aren't any mudguards and you have a means of locking the front brakes on). ICE now have accessory handles for the Adventure for the purpose.
-
The hardshell seat on my Sprint has love handles that hold you in place under hard cornering.
They are bolted either side so the width can be adjusted to fit your lard.
My first Q had no front suspension, my Sprint does.
The front suspension doesn't do much for road buzz, this is more down to the tyres and what pressure you run at.
Where it does help is if one front wheel goes over a bump, speed pillow, sunken manhole cover at speed. You don't get thrown off line as much.
If the potholes get to big, then nothing really helps bar slowing right down.
-
Wow! That's a great help and a lot to take in - I'll post a full reply in the morning as I've had a long day but thank you again Helen, thank you Kim and Tigerbiten. I'm off to the ICE factory this Thursday for some test rides - they really are super supportive, as are you kind folk
:)
M
-
The front suspension doesn't do much for road buzz, this is more down to the tyres and what pressure you run at.
Where it does help is if one front wheel goes over a bump, speed pillow, sunken manhole cover at speed. You don't get thrown off line as much.
If the potholes get to big, then nothing really helps bar slowing right down.
That's interesting. I know that road buzz can be greatly improved on the rear-suspension-only Sprint by running Kojaks on the front wheels at *just* the right pressure.
Getting jarred sideways (in a way that just doesn't happen on a two-wheeler) because you've failed to avoid a pothole, bump, manhole, bit of wood, etc. can be quite unpleasant. Barakta jarred her shoulder doing that a couple of weeks ago, which is I think the first time she's actually had an arm problem exacerbated by riding the trike. I wonder if a Scorpion or Wild One would fare any better with the greater travel afforded by coil spring suspension over the ICE elastomer.
-
I've got nothing to add re disability adjustments - you are already speaking to the experts here.
But ICE are a marvellous company - always willing to give phone/email advice, and don't rip you off for spares when you need them. They also ship spares very quickly.
And the machines are the best. I tried a few at D-tek when I was buying mine, and the ICE was streets ahead of the rest for responsiveness and "feel"
-
And the machines are the best. I tried a few at D-tek when I was buying mine, and the ICE was streets ahead of the rest for responsiveness and "feel"
I think that's probably true, assuming that you're definitely after a tadpole trike. (Deltas having certain killer advantages, not limited to a higher seat, ease of hand-crank conversion, and ability to couple in tandem. And bicycles are always going to be more efficient and easier to store and transport.)
The Sprint and Adventure are fantastic all-rounders, and I don't think there's anything current in quite the same league as the VTX.
Which isn't to say that there's anything wrong with a HPVelotechnik or Catrike, if you find those better suited to your style of riding.
-
That's interesting. I know that road buzz can be greatly improved on the rear-suspension-only Sprint by running Kojaks on the front wheels at *just* the right pressure.
I didn't know this! What is *just* the right pressure as I'm about to put Kojaks on my RS Sprint? I was planning to do it sometime but was just driving back from Viersen with the Sprint in the car, was waiting at some traffic lights and BANG HISSSSSSS one of the trike's front wheels deflated completely. So I might as well stick the Kojaks on now and see how I get on with them. But any extra hint 'n tip for maximum comfort would be good.
Klaus (owner of Wild One) showed me the Kojaks he took off his Wild One (which has 18 inch front wheels so not much choice of tyre). They were down to the canvas and that was after 3,700km so that's a fairly quick wear, especially considering here in Germany we don't have top dressing/chipseal and generally have very good quality surfaces.
We also bumped into another Sprint rider who also lives in Viersen (Klaus has never seen him before - it was clearly my magic presence that facilitated the meeting). This guy has an 80km round trip ride to work in Düsseldorf and had a very pricey Sprint - 5000€. It had a Rohloff, a Windwrap fairing, but (surprisingly) drum brakes so no SON dynohub. It also had the new ICE rack which I don't like as much as mine as you have to remove it to take off the seat.
-
That's interesting. I know that road buzz can be greatly improved on the rear-suspension-only Sprint by running Kojaks on the front wheels at *just* the right pressure.
I didn't know this! What is *just* the right pressure as I'm about to put Kojaks on my RS Sprint? I was planning to do it sometime but was just driving back from Viersen with the Sprint in the car, was waiting at some traffic lights and BANG HISSSSSSS one of the trike's front wheels deflated completely. So I might as well stick the Kojaks on now and see how I get on with them. But any extra hint 'n tip for maximum comfort would be good.
A bit lower than you might expect. Try something in the 80PSI range, and experiment from there. Obviously too low puts you at risk of pinch flats.
They're not the most puncture-proof tyres in the world, and useless off-road, but they're fast and grippy on tarmac.
-
I'm hoping that here in Germany with the smooth roads and lack of hawthorn hedges the Kojaks will work well. We shall see! I'm sure they'll be better than the Panaracer Minits Tough I used last year (they can't be worse!)
-
Barbara had two Catrikes, while Paulo (the owner tried his best) the Catrike including the Pocket model that Barbara did one and a half barrel rolls on/off hurting herself badly was not a patch on the ICE that I bought her in a desperate attempt to reach our next wedding anniversary with her in one piece.
The Catrike direct steering when you hit a bump at speed can go to lockout, as someone said on the Catrike forum "when this occurs you need a certain amount of strength to keep it online" this IMHO should not be needed and in fact after I rode her Road on a twitchy little downhill road in Erquay, Brittany it scared the living s**t out of me, I rang Kevin ' D-tek from France and said "for f***s sake get me an ICE for her, he duly delivered a month later.
Catrike have their devotees I found the Pocket and the Road (Free upgrade fromPaulo) that Barbara owned quite dangerous compared to the ICE. This is my/our experience.
-
...
Anyway, Elliot at ICE said they hadn't yet found an e-assist option that was bombproof enough for them to sell with the trikes ...
I think for now electric assist is going to be out of my price range Helen .. first I have to get fit and out and about a bit .. can save up for some extra oomph once I'm there and being more adventurous :)
I am sure that everyone at ICE will be very helpful to you as they've always been brilliant with me. Good luck with the VAT thing!
They're being lovely so far. Looking forward to meeting them Thursday.
Yes, you needed a disability-specific modification to qualify for a VAT exemption, which is silly when an unmodified trike is what's needed for your disability.
I couldn't agree more Kim ... I'm spending my mobility allowance on this and it will be a piece of rehabilitation equipment .. it's complete tosh! If I bought a crappy electric scooter it would be VAT exempt but offer no rehabilitation ... madness.
I'm not sure, but suspect the rules on VAT exemptions have tightened since then, and may only apply to the cost of the modification itself. Otherwise the usual dodge for someone with a condition like yours would be to fit a device for carrying walking sticks...
You're spot on with this. Can you elaborate on the walking stick issue .. you have me intrigued ... Also I think there's some fine lines .. I can't turn my neck to either side properly so will need to have two mirrors - one each side. This is due to my disability so I expect it should be VAT exempt but will have to see. Also I need bar-end shifters like barakta so that ought to qualify. I'll be getting the accessory handles I suspect (I think they can fit on either the Adventure or Sprint).
I didn't even bother asking. There may have been a mistake on the customs declaration for the battery that lead to less duty charges. I couldn't possibly comment. ::-)
Wouldn't expect you to! But it is nice when the odd clerical error goes your way.
Barakta and I opted for a hub motor on the basis that it's much simpler (a wheel-swap) to remove the electrickery when desired.
V. true - and the Falco motors seem pretty good from everything I've heard .. as I said above I think this will be a later thing, maybe next year.
More generally, I second Auntie Helen's advice to try and get a test ride on a Scorpion. I ride a HPVelotechnik Strreetmachine (its bicycle relative), and while HPV don't know the meaning of 'lightweight', they really know their suspension systems. Probably worth having a go on a Catrike too, if only to get a feel for the difference that direct steering makes.
Thing is I'm going to have to spend a couple of hundred quid to get around and try all these and I'm more minded to keep that money in the bank. The Adventure was really good. I want to see if the Sprint or Adventure holds up best for my back but I'm pretty much decided on one of the two. I will be riding country lanes big up and down hills and I want to enjoy the speed of the downhill bits so .. the higher up Delta's may not offer the kind of stability my riding style will need (unless I'm missing something but basic laws of physics put me off just looking).
If getting in and out of a low seat is an issue then you'll probably prefer the ICE Adventure over the Sprint, in spite of the sprint having better handling on the downhills. By the same logic, it might be worth considering delta trikes like the Kettwiesel, which have an even higher riding position. Again, a Kettwiesel's one of those that's worth having a play with just to appreciate the different handling - the long wheelbase delta geometry means it can turn on a sixpence - awesome fun.
As above I don't think I'm up for lots of travel to try lots of bikes and I think Delta's are out unless they can turn on a sixpence at full speed on the way back down the hill from Dartmoor at speed .... if I'm wrong about the height reducing stability at speed and corners tell me please?
The Adventure/Sprint debate will be resolved Thursday and you've hit on exactly the two key criteria for me. If getting into the sprint is hard I'm going to ask if buying the bracket for long legged peeps to move the seat back will make the Adventure any more stable and offer more grip up big hills (by shifting my weight back).
Hardshell vs mesh seats is another one to consider. Hardshell has to be *just right* to be properly comfortable (so you'll probably end up fiddling about adding and removing foam padding), but is more supportive when you do get it right. Mesh (at least a highly adjustable design like ICE's) is easier to tweak, and ventilates better, but you'll probably find yourself having to tighten up straps occasionally. A thick Ventisit pad will probably provide the same sort of suspension effect with a hardshell seat as you get from mesh (it's by far the best seat pad material from a moisture perspective too). I haven't ridden a trike with a hardshell seat, so I can't really comment about the effect of sideways forces when cornering - that's not an issue on a bike.
My back/spine/shoulders and hips are all very unstable. They are also narrowed due to muscle wasting so there won't be any lard hanging out! But also ... if I get a hardshell seat that fits now and get some rehabilitation effect from riding my hips and shoulders will widen again (significantly ~ 6 inches) so .. that could make it very hard to get the right seat as no amount of padding is likely to deal with that..
This is the problem - the usual owners of these vehicles are blokes who all have skinner arses anyway.
....
I should probably attempt to remove some of the lard from the arse but there are too many nice cakes in Germany for this to be a likely option.
You don't want to know how skinny my arse is ... 6 foot tall and 9 stone with muscle atrophy in my Glutes .... if you do remove any lard I'll buy it from you :)
The suspension on that Wild One looks pretty amazing ... but I want to feel in control and have some precision. I'll be off roading sometimes on green lanes and it might be nice for that but I can't see how I can try one without spending a silly amount to get somewhere ... ICE's factory is 2hrs away on the train and is going to cost me £16.50 to visit ... and I already know I love the ride quality even though the machine I was on was only an RS .. hopefully try a FS model Thursday and decide if it's worth the extra £500.
And the machines are the best. I tried a few at D-tek when I was buying mine, and the ICE was streets ahead of the rest for responsiveness and "feel"
I think that's probably true, assuming that you're definitely after a tadpole trike. (Deltas having certain killer advantages, not limited to a higher seat, ease of hand-crank conversion, and ability to couple in tandem.....
The advantages you list above are probably all either irrelevant in my circumstances - or potential disadvantages to me Kim due to my "need for speed" (re the height) .. what are the other killer advantages?
Thanks to everyone for the very generous feedback and suggestions and your time in answering. It's much appreciated.
Warmly,
Matthew
-
I look forward to hearing how you get on with ICE on Thursday. Half the joy of these threads is watching people work out what they want and how they decide it. Keeps all us nerds happy!
-
I'm not sure, but suspect the rules on VAT exemptions have tightened since then, and may only apply to the cost of the modification itself. Otherwise the usual dodge for someone with a condition like yours would be to fit a device for carrying walking sticks...
You're spot on with this. Can you elaborate on the walking stick issue .. you have me intrigued ... Also I think there's some fine lines .. I can't turn my neck to either side properly so will need to have two mirrors - one each side. This is due to my disability so I expect it should be VAT exempt but will have to see. Also I need bar-end shifters like barakta so that ought to qualify. I'll be getting the accessory handles I suspect (I think they can fit on either the Adventure or Sprint).
The walking stick issue was simply a convenient way of making a basically stock cycle be "modified for someone with a disability" when they didn't need special controls, pedals, supports or whatever. I don't think it's any help if the VAT exemption only applies to the mod.
Incidentally, if you do need to carry sticks, a bit of plastic pipe attached to the back of the seat should work nicely on most recumbents.
I think the ICE accessory handles mount to the horizontal cross-tube of the Adventure, so won't fit the Sprint (which has it slanting upwards at the ends to meet the kingposts, to make the main body lower).
V. true - and the Falco motors seem pretty good from everything I've heard .. as I said above I think this will be a later thing, maybe next year.
I'm quite impressed with the Falco motor, and their general attitude to building a modular system around well-engineered motors. They're a bit patchy documentation-wise, though lots of useful info seems to be coming out in dribs and drabs. It's let down by the current incarnation of the console (which is buggy and hard to read, though it is of course possible to use a Falco motor without a console at all), there's supposed to be a new version in the pipeline, but it's taking its time.
KMX seem to have gone with the Flaco for their e-assist trikes, though I think ICE are favouring a lighter weight mid-drive approach.
More generally, I second Auntie Helen's advice to try and get a test ride on a Scorpion. I ride a HPVelotechnik Strreetmachine (its bicycle relative), and while HPV don't know the meaning of 'lightweight', they really know their suspension systems. Probably worth having a go on a Catrike too, if only to get a feel for the difference that direct steering makes.
Thing is I'm going to have to spend a couple of hundred quid to get around and try all these and I'm more minded to keep that money in the bank. The Adventure was really good. I want to see if the Sprint or Adventure holds up best for my back but I'm pretty much decided on one of the two. I will be riding country lanes big up and down hills and I want to enjoy the speed of the downhill bits so .. the higher up Delta's may not offer the kind of stability my riding style will need (unless I'm missing something but basic laws of physics put me off just looking).
That's a fair point. A visit to DTek (or hanging around at the Mildenhall Rally) is usually a good way to meet random recumbents, but I appreciate that's a fair trek from your part of the world.
As above I don't think I'm up for lots of travel to try lots of bikes and I think Delta's are out unless they can turn on a sixpence at full speed on the way back down the hill from Dartmoor at speed .... if I'm wrong about the height reducing stability at speed and corners tell me please?
Never ridden one at any kind of speed, unfortunately. I'm sure that tadpoles have a significant advantage there.
I'll be off roading sometimes on green lanes
That's a very strong argument for the Adventure over the Sprint. The lowest point of the Sprint's frame is about 4" off the ground, which means it's very easy to ground it on anything that's rutted (or get a wet bum in fords). A typical kerb can be a problem, to the point where it's best to dismount and wheel it if you find you have to get down one because someone's parked a van on the dropped kerb at the end of a cyclepath (obviously there's no way you're going to ride *up* a kerb on a 20" wheeled recumbent).
Ingesting cut grass into the drivetrain is also an issue, but mostly on account of a long-cage dérailleur and a small wheel rather than the under-seat idler pulley, so the Adventure doesn't fare much better. Hub gears or 26" rear wheels are the solution to this one, though if it's just the occasional ride across a campsite field, you can just take care to stick it in a small:small gear to lift the dérailleur up out of the way.
Anyway, hope things go well with your visit to ICE. :thumbsup:
-
That's interesting. I know that road buzz can be greatly improved on the rear-suspension-only Sprint by running Kojaks on the front wheels at *just* the right pressure.
Interesting - road buzz is annoying me at the moment. What is it about the Kojaks specifically that counter this? Or is it just a case of getting the right pressure on any tyre?
PS - sorry for the slight thread hijack
-
The kojaks are now on my Sprint and at 80psi (I should start working in Bar as everyone here does, so that's 6 bar I think). I haven't had a ride yet as I used the velomobile yesterday but I will report back.
The slight problem with reporting back is the roads in Germany are so smooth you don't get road buzz anyway ;-)
-
Thanks Barakta and Kim, yes looking forward to tomorrow :)
Green lanes make up a lot of the more scenic route round here so taking your advice Kim I'll look at the adventure closely and I might have to fashion something as a grass guard for the derailleur ...
No worries on thread jacking Andustar, come with the territory.
M
-
That's interesting. I know that road buzz can be greatly improved on the rear-suspension-only Sprint by running Kojaks on the front wheels at *just* the right pressure.
Interesting - road buzz is annoying me at the moment. What is it about the Kojaks specifically that counter this? Or is it just a case of getting the right pressure on any tyre?
PS - sorry for the slight thread hijack
I've used them on a 26" wheeled roadbike, even for an easter arrow.
Kojaks are fat with minimal rubber, so they can be run at lowish pressures without sacrificing speed. Any supple, relatively lightweight tyre will have these properties (Panaracer paselas come to mind).
For Datbloke, minimising vibration and shock could be very important. Bruising your spine, coccyx and bum isn't conducive to getting out there are riding.
-
Green lanes make up a lot of the more scenic route round here so taking your advice Kim I'll look at the adventure closely and I might have to fashion something as a grass guard for the derailleur ...
I have a 26 Sprint (seat fully reclined) I find that on the bridle paths it just takes a careful approach to the line you take to avoid grounding, so far so good.
Re comfort/less road shock suggest a Big Apple on the rear, the difference it makes is amazing, as far as getting off is concerned I use the light extension bracket on the front mech post combined with the last of the forward motion to get myself forward and up.
I think someone else has mentioned a visit to Kevin at D-tek, if this is not possible why not give him a ring to see if he will be down your way at all, he is bloody good.
:)
-
Hi Quint,
Yes, I was looking at a Sprint 26, maybe with something a bit larger on the front too - though I know that would affect steering etc. Thanks for the heads up.
D-tek are over 5 hours drive away (not that I have a car so I'd need to train it to London then Ely, stay a night etc .. Be at least a couple of hundred quid on the trip) so to justify it I'd need to know I might be looking at something other than an ICE that would save me at least that much moolah .. I shall do as you suggest and call to chat.
Thanks,
M
PS called Kevin and he guessed who I was from reading this forum :D
-
I have a HPV Scorpion FS set up with a Bionx e-assist so it's a shame you're not near Sheffield as you could try it and it could speak for itself. I find the suspension is sublime and I imagine the e-assist would be a revelation.
I wonder if you should prioritise the e-assist aspect more, there's something liberating about the more rapid progress you can make up hills with an e-assist, hills that are daunting are much less so with an e-assist and you get into a positive cycle of more easily won reward which equates to keen anticipation to be out cycling again. The e-assist cliche is that it's for lazy people but it has much more subtle and profound benefits. Approached in the right way good e-assist actually encourages fitness and rehabilitation and provides mobility solutions that do not forsake the thrill of human power.
Good luck with your quest!
-
Thanks oddball and mrcharly - as much padding on the rear as possible is a must for me.
Had a great day and really enjoyed visiting ICE yesterday, tried just about every combination across the sprint and adventure models, including an E-assist one. It was very illuminating. The handling of the sprint at extremes of speed felt much more comfortable than the adventure, and I found I was able to mount and discount kerbs on it due to the lowest point on the frame being so close to the wheels.
The E-assist was quite a revelation and your comment oddball has me mulling over this issue. On the one hand I was looking to improve muscle strength and cardiovascular fitness and was thinking of a motor as an added bonus/backup for longer trips once my health was improving but your comment has me debating with myself!
Upshot of the experience is anyone thinking of buying an ICE machine is made to feel incredibly welcome by the crew so if it's doable I'd recommend doing it. Personally it's narrowed my decision to a sprint RS model. They do have the handlebar assist option for this now (not compatible with adventure version).
It was a lovely day in Falmouth and very educational.
M
-
Another tyre to think about is the Marathon Supreme, 42-406.
I run mine at 70 psi on my Sprint and I used to run them at 60 psi on the Q.
The difference in pressure is due to the front suspension.
I find if I run harder than that, the triad buzz is a lot worse.
At the moment I'm only running then at about 60 psi due to the state of the roads.
One thing to think about is to try and get the lowest first gear possible without dropping the top gear below 100".
As a trike has no minimum speed, you can go as low as you like/ can afford.
With the 20" backwheel , the trick is to change the small chainring down to a 22 tooth one. This drops the first gear to 12.5" which makes steep hills so much easier. I used to run my old Q with that setup, so I know it works.
My Sprint has a Rohloff and a Schlumpf HSD and my first gear is now sub-10".
Don't know what's possible with the 26" back wheel as I've never used one.
-
I run my Supremes at max pressure, there is of course always the SRAM 3 speed hub/9 spd derailleur combination to consider
-
With the 20" backwheel , the trick is to change the small chainring down to a 22 tooth one. This drops the first gear to 12.5" which makes steep hills so much easier. I used to run my old Q with that setup, so I know it works.
This is stock gearing with the shorter canks.
-
It is possible to get a 36 tooth rear cassette and run it with a shimano lx rear derailleur. 1in 3 hill's should not be a problem as long as you can can get traction :thumbsup:
-
34 rear to 24 (could go to 22) is about as low as I would like to go (chain length0 the SRAM Multi Drive hub will take you lower if need but how low before it is counter productive
-
As long as you're not dropping the top end gears below 100", you can never have a too low first gear on a trike.
Especially when you've first got one and haven't built up your bent legs yet.
Now I'm used to my 9.5" first gear, I wouldn't want a higher one.
It gets me up most hills without a strain on the legs, I just have to keep twiddling away.
If I've lost traction in a higher gear, dropping to first can help me regain traction due to slower speed equals less torque.
Then again, now I'm used to my 172" top gear I wouldn't want a lower one.
Northing beats being able to pedal slowly downhill at +40 mph.
-
It is possible to get a 36 tooth rear cassette and run it with a shimano lx rear derailleur. 1in 3 hill's should not be a problem as long as you can can get traction :thumbsup:
That's probably getting a bit marginal for dérailleur ground clearance on a 20" wheel, though, depending on choice of tyre.
-
Big apple :-)
-
I don't think a 36 tooth granny would work that well.
At the moment the 9-32 cassette gives you a good range without any silly big jumps between gears.
Swooping the 32 for a 36 would give you a big jump to the granny gear and once you're in it, it would be hard to shift out of it once the hill relented a little.
One thing I like about the Rohloff is the gears are all 14% apart, so its easy to up a gear once the hill relents a bit as long as there's still something in your legs.
I did think about half stepping the Rohloff, but decided that would have been a bit silly, but went for a 53-38 combo on the HSD instead to give me a better spread of gears in normal mode.
-
I don't think a 36 tooth granny would work that well.
At the moment the 9-32 cassette gives you a good range without any silly big jumps between gears.
Swooping the 32 for a 36 would give you a big jump to the granny gear and once you're in it, it would be hard to shift out of it once the hill relented a little.
It wouldn't work like that, you'd have to swap to an 11-36 as I don't think you can get 36t sprockets for Capreo. So it would need a new hub, too.
Then it would shift fine, but without larger chainrings you're lacking at the top end.
-
I suffer from a lot of the same issues you do and I have a Challenge Concept. If I could go back in time I probably would have gone for something like a Trice.
However that said, I found a recumbent trike very hard work, even thought it was a lightweight beast with a load of gears, it must have been the fact that it's a legs only machine compared to an upright but then I've always used my added ballast to help me set off. I just found the spinning very tiresome.
-
I have weak leg's and spinal cord damage and my ave speed is around 6mph these days. I can still manage 40to 60 miles a day when touring . I find that low gears are more useful than the high ones as my trice goes down hill's nice and fast without me peddling :)
-
However that said, I found a recumbent trike very hard work, even thought it was a lightweight beast with a load of gears, it must have been the fact that it's a legs only machine compared to an upright but then I've always used my added ballast to help me set off. I just found the spinning very tiresome.
There's a trike factor as well as a recumbent factor (I don't actually find I get much of a recumbent factor, though I find it much easier to give myself an asthma attack uphill on a DF, perhaps that's why?):
I find the ICE Sprint RS significantly harder work than the HPV Streetmachine GT (they're both about 19kg), even with the seat angles roughly equivalent and faster tyres on the Sprint (Kojaks vs Marathons). There's a lot of work involved in lugging that extra wheel about (both aerodynamically, and as rolling resistance). Flat-out bastard hill climbing speed isn't that different (as it's simply rider vs weight), but it's very noticable that the SMGT wants to roll, and the trike doesn't. Terminal velocity on a downhill is much higher on the SMGT, even without me chickening out on corners.
I reckon I'm about 10% slower overall on the Sprint.
-
This is a great thread, so much information and I haven’t even got a trike as yet, but I'm working on that.
-
This is a great thread, so much information and I haven’t even got a trike as yet, but I'm working on that.
Go baby, go, you're not right without a trike. Oh god, it's got to me :facepalm:
-
;D
-
My Trice Q is for sale, numbnuts!
With regard to rollingness of the trike vs streetmachine, I am also now able to compare my trike with my velomobile which maintains its rolling speed for much, much longer (and also has three wheels) so it may be more of a function of the windbreak shape of your upper body on the trike. the SMGT setup is presumably narrower.
With the velomobile I have to use the brakes far more when riding with trikes/recumbent bikes (I rode with 40+ other recumbents at the end of April) as if they stop pedalling for a bit to shave off some speed, with the velmobile I have to use the brakes as it maintains its speed much more easily.
-
My Trice Q is for sale, numbnuts!
Thanks Helen, but I don't think I want one as good as that as I will be mostly be using it off road as I have the New Forest not far from me and it would nice just to follow the tracks around there and taking my time and looking at the wild life.
-
With regard to rollingness of the trike vs streetmachine, I am also now able to compare my trike with my velomobile which maintains its rolling speed for much, much longer (and also has three wheels) so it may be more of a function of the windbreak shape of your upper body on the trike. the SMGT setup is presumably narrower.
Yeah, I think it's a mix of both - clearly aerodynamics dominates when rolling down a steep hill (I think it's more the trike/bike than my body, as I've tried to match the riding position as much as possible - a bike has most of its stuff inline, after all), but there's a noticeable difference on the flat at below 10mph too.
With the velomobile I have to use the brakes far more when riding with trikes/recumbent bikes (I rode with 40+ other recumbents at the end of April) as if they stop pedalling for a bit to shave off some speed, with the velmobile I have to use the brakes as it maintains its speed much more easily.
Just like riding a 'bent amongst upwrongs then. It's the amount of braking I have to do *uphill* that really gets me, as they lose all their momentum at the start of a climb.
-
This is a great thread, so much information and I haven’t even got a trike as yet, but I'm working on that.
Hi numbnuts,
I'm glad you have found help and inspiration through this thread. I'd also like to thank everybody for the fantastic, supportive, encouraging and informative replies.
Like you I'm yet to get on three wheels (two isn't an option) but I'm determined to do so!
With a visit to the ICE factory where I was able to compare possibilities (and a lovely tour of Falmouth in Chris Parker's lovingly restored 1976 Saab :) ) behind me, along with advice offered here and from the all-knowing Kevin from D-Tek I don't think I could have found more support in reaching a decision as to what to get.
M
A post script for HMRC: the law is an ass. I can get full VAT relief on a motobility car that won't improve my health but can only get relief on the "assist handles" of a machine that will improve my mobility and health. Sort it out!
-
I suspect motability is a dodge and a half based on my very limited knowledge of UK disability rights history. Basically the system was set up cos a bunch of young disabled from birth types living in Leonard Cheshire homes insisted on rights and freedom and fought for them (barricades and chaining selves to stuff and all) and the government agreed to various "speshul disability car schemes" which later evolved into motability...
But yes, as Scope research recently said, being disabled just costs you lots of extra money ALL the time!
-
Thanks to all for your advices. I'm now the proud owner of an ICE Adventure FS pictured below and purchased pre-loved from Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh. Big shout out to everyone who offered advice (especially barakta, Kim & Auntie Helen .. Mwah), Kevin from D-Tek who always had time and David from Laid-Back for his excellent service.
The machine was in as new condition except for the broken rear reflector (thanks Mr Postman) and a couple of minor scratches.
I know those of you who suffer disabilities will understand the absolute pleasure of rolling faster than walking pace under your own steam :D
XXX
Matthew
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee415/The_Irreverent_Buddhist/Triketastic/16323443261_08fc0647ab_o.jpg)
-
Yay !!!!!
-
Most excellent news!
Enjoy sliding the tail end! ;)
-
Welcome to the dark side Matthew :thumbsup:
-
Go out and enjoy :thumbsup:
-
thanks hatler, Jurek, loadsabikes, numbnuts
I'm loving the Dark Side - and certainly enjoying moving.
Will take a while for me to regain any level of aerobic fitness and to rebuild atrophied leg muscles but today I did two hill-climbs ... and two screamingly fast descents :) Also bumped into someone with a Greenspeed.
Everywhere I go heads turn and when I stop for coffee or a beer someone invariably wants to sit on it!
M
-
Congrats.
One simple mod if you have the standard 48-36-26 front triple.
There is just enough room to swop the inner ring to a 22.
It will give you another gear down for when the legs get tired going uphill.
I won't tell you how many hours I spent in that gear 12.5" going uphill my old Q.
Keep the ........ ;D
-
I have just seen this thread for the first time.
Glad to see you are happy with your choice.
Enjoy, as others have said.
-
Congratulations on your new trice :thumbsup:. Have you got the tryker tyres fitted ?. :)
-
Congratulations on your new trice :thumbsup:. Have you got the tryker tyres fitted ?. :)
Let's hope not!
-
My take on Trykers.
They are ok if there are no glass/flint shards around.
The rubber compound is soft-ish, so excellent grip.
But in the damp due to the soft-ish compound, I found they picked up shards to easily and punctured.
I like Marathon Supremes.
Harder compound so slightly less grip, but I think they don't pick up shards as easily so probably slightly less risk of a puncture.
-
That's pretty much my experience as well, fast and grippy but too fragile in any kind of skog.
-
Mine have suffered a few punctures but have coped OK with sustrans route's and bridleways .they have a few cut's but after 2000miles are showing no real sign's of wear . so far so good but times will tell :)
-
Thanks to all for your advices. I'm now the proud owner of an ICE Adventure FS pictured below and purchased pre-loved from Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh. Big shout out to everyone who offered advice (especially barakta, Kim & Auntie Helen .. Mwah), Kevin from D-Tek who always had time and David from Laid-Back for his excellent service.
The machine was in as new condition except for the broken rear reflector (thanks Mr Postman) and a couple of minor scratches.
I know those of you who suffer disabilities will understand the absolute pleasure of rolling faster than walking pace under your own steam :D
XXX
Matthew
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee415/The_Irreverent_Buddhist/Triketastic/16323443261_08fc0647ab_o.jpg)
A suggestion, swop the pedals and toe clips for a set of SPD or (IMHO even better) Crank Bros pedals, at some point your feet will slip out of the toe clips and could cause serious injury, having got this far that would be terrible
-
That's pretty much my experience as well, fast and grippy but too fragile in any kind of skog.
On the gripping hand, they make cycleman much faster. :thumbsup:
-
Thanks to all for the advice and encouragements,
At the moment I am slowly but happily grinding up hills (we have big one's round here - lot's of them!) and happily flying down them and along the flat. My face aches a bit from grinning.
The tyres on the trike are "Schwalbe Marathon Racers". Dave Mccraw says of them More rugged than Schwalbe’s Kojak slick, but also built to a higher standard, this should be a very interesting tyre if you’re looking for a capable all-rounder. (http://"http://mccraw.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-racer-review/"). I have no idea what tyre is best for my aims but I'm not going to be racing anywhere anytime soon - I'm trying to rebuild aerobic fitness and muscle that has atrophied over ten years, so even if the tyre makes it harder work that is actually not a "bad" thing.
For now these tyres seem fine. I will be using the machine on the road, to go shopping , on cycle tracks (some paved some not), on green lanes, unsurfaced roads and off-road - often all in one trip so I wonder if there is an "ideal" tyre for such mutipurpose all terrain use. I do need some protection from easy punctures and I don't want to be constantly swapping rubber or stopping to fix a flat.
Also I have to actually pay off the bike (Thanks interest free credit card!) so being a bit careful about spending more money for the time being.
Quint - yes I was looking at the Shimano PDP M324 SPD that ICE sell - as I do a combination of round town and plan for longer trips. Not familiar with Crank Bros - will look into it.
Tigerbiten - thanks for the heads up on the potential to swap the inner ring for a 22 - so far I am not having any trouble with the gearing, despite the steep hill-climbs around here (and that's not even getting far out of town).
Yesterday I did a total of 5 mile round trip with 350ft total vertical climbing in that distance - legs were very wobbly at the end. It's going to be a journey from where I am now to anything resembling "being fit".
Kindly,
Matthew
-
For now these tyres seem fine. I will be using the machine on the road, to go shopping , on cycle tracks (some paved some not), on green lanes, unsurfaced roads and off-road - often all in one trip so I wonder if there is an "ideal" tyre for such mutipurpose all terrain use. I do need some protection from easy punctures and I don't want to be constantly swapping rubber or stopping to fix a flat.
Probably the Schwalbe Marathon (no 'Plus', 'Racer' or anything else). It's a good general-purpose touring tyre, reasonably hard-wearing and I get maybe a puncture every couple of thousand miles on average (there tend to be more towards the end of the tyre's life). Off-road grip isn't as good as a true knobbly, but that's going to be less of an issue on a trike, anyway - you'll get wheelspin rather than fall off. Much like the Racers, but a bit more puncture-resistant.
The Marathon Plus is the canonical bullet-proof tyre for when you never want to puncture. It's proof against all but the worst glass, hawthorn or incredibly bad luck. Unfortunately, they're heavy, literally painful to fit and on a Sprint will give you a harsh ride that paradoxically feels like riding through treacle. Good for commuting, folding bikes or people unable to repair punctures, but best avoided if you're low on fitness.
Quint - yes I was looking at the Shimano PDP M324 SPD that ICE sell - as I do a combination of round town and plan for longer trips. Not familiar with Crank Bros - will look into it.
Not a bad option, I reckon. I wouldn't ride a recumbent without clipless pedals, but I have the luxury of being able to jump on an upright bike for short trips, so if I'm using one of the 'bents its for a longer ride and worth changing shoes (hence I use bog standard SPD M520s like everyone else). If you want something that'll work with normal shoes too, they should do nicely.
-
Re tyres I find she who must not be named visits less with Marathon Supremes and a Big Apple on the rear (when you come to change them) but there again I keep my tyres up to max pressure which helps.
SPDs are good but need more careful setting up than the Crank Bros, downside with the Cranks are they have a brass cleat which wears so maybe the SPD are better in the long run, I use Crank Egg Beaters mainly because Barbara has the version with surround support and having the same means we can swop trikes if need (ver handy in Brittany when her frong changer refused to work stopping her in the middle of fast moving traffic :facepalm:)
Getting your legs may happen quicker than you think, by the sound of it you are bloody determined so chapeau
Modified to add that Merlin sell some good stuff including the SPDs at a very good price
-
Re tyres I find she who must not be named visits less with Marathon Supremes and a Big Apple on the rear (when you come to change them) but there again I keep my tyres up to max pressure which helps.
Yes, Big Apples are another good option, especially on the trikes without front suspension. Not sure there's as much benefit on the FS.
-
Thanks Kim, Quint,
You never cease to amaze with the speed and helpfulness of replies.
Pedals - the Shimano hybrid seems to fit the bill.
Tyres - I ended up with an Adventure FS - Full Suspension - in the end Kim: it's what first came on the market second user. I wanted a sprint but actually this is no bad thing as on the sprint I was likely to kill myself downhill very quickly. With the Aventure's higher position I'm a bit more careful and actually it's better for my back. Don't know if that affects your advice. For now I'll stick with the one's Iv'e got til they die or I find them problematic but the plain vanilla Marathon sounds good. What's your take on putting a Big Apple on the rear? (you just answered that while I was typing :D )
M
-
I've had a go with cycleman's Adventure FS: What it lacks in high-speed cornering it more than makes up for in handling rough surfaces (and there's no shortage of those even without going off-road). A very capable trike.
Sticking with the Racers until they wear out or piss you off seems like a good plan. I know Auntie Helen (the forum expert on high-mileage ICE pootling) wasn't impressed with their durability, but the ride should be fine.
-
I found there was not a lot of difference between the Marathon Racers and the Marathon Supremes.
I prefer Supremes but will quite happily run Racers.
I'm another who runs Supremes in front and a Big Apple on the back.
I found that the Big Apple has a little bit more depth of rubber than the Supremes.
As I kill the back tyre by getting a lot of wheel spin going uphill in the wet, the extra depth of rubber helps.
Edit:- The best place to buy 406 tyres is the "West Country Recumbents" small tyre shop.
-
Edit:- The best place to buy 406 tyres is the "West Country Recumbents" small tyre shop.
Definately 8)
-
My friend Jonathan who rides a adventure trice has ms and cannot use clipless pedals. He uses a rubber strap to hold his feet in the pedals ( the type used for strapping luggage to your cycle rack ) . :)
-
I'm not a fan of Marathon Racers as the ones I had delivered with my second trike got three punctures in 500 miles so I swapped them for Marathons (normal ones, not Plus). I have since tried Panaracer Minits Tough (not tough enough) and Kojaks (fast but not very comfy) as well as Big Apple (hard to get to sit on the rims well but good once one). But I keep coming back to normal Marathons. I get about one puncture per 3000 miles which is OK (although none with them on either bike since I have moved to Germany where you don't get hedges or flints so much).
-
My Pedal of Choice for most applications is still the Look Delta but the sticky-out cleats make 'em buggers to walk in. The Towpath Bike has Crank Bros Candy which are much betterer in that regard. I find SPDs well-nigh impossible to clip into and thus diskard them.
-
I use M324s on the Trice. They've been on for around 9 years now and I don't use the "Normal Pedal" bit after having leg suck under the cross beam nearly breaking my leg a few years ago. If I was only going local I might but I would be very careful.
I use standard marathons all round and have had very few (Mumble, mumble) "Visits".
-
I'm not a fan of Marathon Racers as the ones I had delivered with my second trike got three punctures in 500 miles .........
I had that type of luck when I first swapped Racers to Supremes.
I tend to get around 5 punctures a year while covering ~7,500-8,000 mile spread over all 5 wheels.
Works over to be roughly 2 on the front, 2 on the back and 1 on the trailer a year.
-
Mine originally came witn Stelvios which were fast, fargile and wore out mercifully quickly. I then switched to Marathon Slicks were were slower, only marginally less fragile and absolute sods to refit, especially at 3 am in the rain. Thence to Marathon Racers, which were an improvement in all areas. One day I'll get the bloody steering fixed :-\