Brompton for long distance/day rides/touring and for taller riders

[Audax1]

Hello,

There is something about the Brompton's, after having liked the Moulton's and other small wheeled bikes it has led me to question whether I'm missing out on the current small wheeled 'revolution' of well made portable bikes. The main appeal is that it can be packed up and transported so well which would be idea for say cycling abroad if they can travel on planes which I believe they can, or putting in the back of the car to take on holidays. Have people got experience they can share on how they ride in terms of day rides, or in hilly terrain please? Also, would be interested to hear any thoughts about how they are in terms of riding for taller riders as am 6ft 6".

No doubt there is a trade off with the size but any info would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you

[quixoticgeek]

Hello,

There is something about the Brompton's, after having liked the Moulton's and other small wheeled bikes it has led me to question whether I'm missing out on the current small wheeled 'revolution' of well made portable bikes. The main appeal is that it can be packed up and transported so well which would be idea for say cycling abroad if they can travel on planes which I believe they can, or putting in the back of the car to take on holidays. Have people got experience they can share on how they ride in terms of day rides, or in hilly terrain please? Also, would be interested to hear any thoughts about how they are in terms of riding for taller riders as am 6ft 6".

No doubt there is a trade off with the size but any info would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you

Having done 100+k rides on the Brompton, I can say: Not ideal.

People do do PBP and Audaxes on them, but I file them as the same brand of crazy that does such things on Fixed.

IMHO the Brompton just isn't efficient enough for really long rides.

But, YMMV.

J

[Kim]

The Brompton's main feature is the fold.  As a bike, it's best for pootling around a city.

Given appropriate gearing, they climb just fine.  Serious descending can be a bit exciting, as the brakes are underwhelming (and cramp-inducing as the lever angle is compromised ergonomically for the fold).  The general inefficiencies add up to an exhausting ride on the flat, with the small wheels being particularly affected by rough surfaces.  You also don't want to hit a proper pothole on one.

On the other hand, the fold means it's a bike that you can have with you when another bike wouldn't be practical, and there's a lot to be said for that if multi-modal touring is your thing.  Some people do ride audaxes on them, but you can say that about almost anything.  If you're doing longer rides, you'll probably want to fit some bar-ends or otherwise customise the handlebars in order to get multiple hand positions.

No doubt someone who doesn't fit the standard seatpost will be along in a minute with some thoughts on taller riders...

Personally, if I wanted a folding bike primarily for Bike Rides, I'd compromise the fold for something with larger wheels.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Yes, there are lots of negatives to doing long distances on a B, as noted above. If you already finishing brevets with at least 10% time in hand, you can probably get round them on a B. There are a couple of folk here who’ve finished PBP and LEL on Bs but they have subsequently switched to big wheels.

I have limited experience audaxing on my Brompton, not beyond 200km yet. The small tyres work best/ roll fastest on smooth surfaces and become much harder work as the road surface worsens. I must get round to knocking over a SR on it, now it is up to scratch again. I have done PBP on Brompton-size tyres on my 1960s Moulton. It rides noticeably nicer than my Brompton does.

I think that bar end extensions are just about mandatory for tall riders doing long distances on flat bars. A Brompton has a short reach otherwise. Ergon GP2 or GP3 suit many folk and usually don’t compromise the fold. You will probably want the M or H handlebar arrangement or whatever they are calling them nowadays.

[quixoticgeek]

As a tourist the place Brompton really excels is by combining it with public transport. You can get a Thalys to Paris, ride around, explore more, see the bits you miss by taking the metro, then fold it up and take an RER back.

Or you can take the bus that runs 4 times a day out to the interesting place in the sticks, ride to it, see it, then do the ride to a station with a better service.

The fold is what makes the Brompton so versatile, so make use of it. Combine it with public transport.

J

[robgul]

The Brompton's main feature is the fold.  As a bike, it's best for pootling around a city.

Given appropriate gearing, they climb just fine.  Serious descending can be a bit exciting, as the brakes are underwhelming (and cramp-inducing as the lever angle is compromised ergonomically for the fold).  The general inefficiencies add up to an exhausting ride on the flat, with the small wheels being particularly affected by rough surfaces.  You also don't want to hit a proper pothole on one.

On the other hand, the fold means it's a bike that you can have with you when another bike wouldn't be practical, and there's a lot to be said for that if multi-modal touring is your thing.  Some people do ride audaxes on them, but you can say that about almost anything.  If you're doing longer rides, you'll probably want to fit some bar-ends or otherwise customise the handlebars in order to get multiple hand positions.

No doubt someone who doesn't fit the standard seatpost will be along in a minute with some thoughts on taller riders...

Personally, if I wanted a folding bike primarily for Bike Rides, I'd compromise the fold for something with larger wheels.

I'd go along with pretty much all that Kim says - I'm very tall and on my Brompton have the extended seatpost (effectively a seat post within a seat post) and a Brooks B17 instead of the kiddy-size saddle that's standard.  I think the longest trip I've ridden on mine was about 20 miles and that was about all I could tolerate!  I've made 2 or 3 excursions to London recently and pottered around doing 12 or 14 miles, with quite frequent stops, quite happily - the biggest issue is the risk of having it nicked!

[mrcharly-YHT]

Hello,
 The main appeal is that it can be packed up and transported so well which would be idea for say cycling abroad if they can travel on planes which I believe they can, or putting in the back of the car to take on holidays.

Thank you

Bike Friday or airnimal do this and ride like a 'real' bike.

[orienteer]

I'm mainly a Moulton rider, own several models.

I had a Brompton a few years ago for Bikeability training in local schools, it was great for taking the tube to the schools, but I didn't enjoy riding it. The lack of front suspension meant I had to keep a permanent eye on the road surface to avoid imperfections.

Would suggest a separable Moulton model and a pair of Moulton carrying bags for multimodal travel; not so convenient but much more enjoyable.

As Alex Moulton used to say, "a Brompton's made for folding, a Moulton for riding"!

[drossall]

My Brompton is great, but much the same as above. People do all sorts of things on them - touring, Audax, whatever. But the point to me seems to be the excellent fold and, if the particular use doesn't demand folding the bike, I'm not really sure why you'd choose one over a regular bike.

[Kim]

My Brompton is great, but much the same as above. People do all sorts of things on them - touring, Audax, whatever. But the point to me seems to be the excellent fold and, if the particular use doesn't demand folding the bike, I'm not really sure why you'd choose one over a regular bike.

Because you can't find a conventional bike that's small enough, usually.

[Lightning Phil]

My Brompton is great, but much the same as above. People do all sorts of things on them - touring, Audax, whatever. But the point to me seems to be the excellent fold and, if the particular use doesn't demand folding the bike, I'm not really sure why you'd choose one over a regular bike.

I’d say that it may be to make a ride more fun where it would otherwise be straight forward.

I’ll give the example of mtn biking.   Mtn bikes have “evolved” so much that apart from the gnarliest of trails, most off road has been tamed so much to become far from engaging.   I think this is behind the rise of the gravel bike which bring back the engagement and fun, you have to activity choose your line, you can’t just let the bike flow through pretty much anything as modern mtn bikes do.

I ride my Brompton and recumbent off road. Are they the the most suitable? Possibly not. Is it engaging and fun? Definitely.

I haven’t ridden my Brompton further than 70km though.

[drossall]

Because you can't find a conventional bike that's small enough, usually.

That's a good reason, obviously!

I ride my Brompton and recumbent off road.

I believe that Brompton may not recommend use of their machines off road, and it could invalidate the warranty. Could still be fun though! I've taken mine down an unsurfaced cycle track, and it was fine.

[Kim]

This sort of thing is fine, it's all about the grip of the tyres, and how enthusiastic you are about cleaning the rear end afterwards:



I had to turn back when the rocks started to get as big as a fist.  Small wheels have their limits.  Also, keep an eye on the headset adjustment if you're riding over too much rough stuff.

[ElyDave]

Hello,
 The main appeal is that it can be packed up and transported so well which would be idea for say cycling abroad if they can travel on planes which I believe they can, or putting in the back of the car to take on holidays.

Thank you

Bike Friday or airnimal do this and ride like a 'real' bike.

I second the Airnimal, folds into a suitcase that is OK on all the reputable airlines and rides like a bike.  I've audaxed on mine (26" wheel) with bar ends and aero bars vs my Dahon that I rode <20 miles before deciding to sell it

[mzjo]

I would go with all of that. My one experience of riding a Brompton was taking a trip on my daughter's (which she inherited from her mum). I probably did a bit more than 20 miles, finishing up on a muddy towpath. Conclusion, it felt like you needed to be in a pin-striped suit going between bus and tube stops. It was too short for me (although daughter and ex both ride/rode much the same size normal bike as me) and I didn't find it very good at going up hill. It was useless in mud off-road.
Then my daughter put the front wheel into a pothole in central Wantage (she was using the Brommie for going between split school sites; the bike sat in the classroom during lessons, much to the amusement of the pupils. This was an ideal use for a Brommie). Result 12 months of agony before someone discovered that she didn't have the sort of injury they were treating her for and that movement was the worst thing to do!
I now have a Montana, which is a cheap italian Tern clone. It doesn't fold quite as small as a Brompton,nor quite as quickly, but it rides very nearly like a real bike. I have built my own extension seatpost which adds a lot to riding comfort, it will go off-road (at least muddy forest trails) and I am modifying a Tern front pannier carrier for more extended use. 80kms no problem and very nearly as quick as my tourer. And you could have three or maybe four for the price of one Brompton.
I have come to the conclusion that most, if not all, folders hit a limit in standard form of about 5'10"-6' which is probably a lot to do with the compromises needed to have an acceptable size folded. Over that size you need to look very carefully at what options (bar design, extended or telescopic seat posts) are available (as well as dedicated luggage options) before choosing your bike. And if you don't need the fold advantages of a Brompton you probably don't need a Brompton.
I know nothing of Moultons, they're a long way outside my price range but I did always fancy an Airnimal (but less adapted for the real use I have for the Montana, which is picking up and dropping off company pool cars; the rest is an enjoyable bonus). Airnimal don't export to my country of residence! I personally wouldn't touch a Brompton, prefer a bike to ride over a bike to carry!

[Kim]

(as well as dedicated luggage options)

This reminds me: The Brompton front luggage block is one of their best design decisions, and something that works really well for riding as well as folding.

Yes, most of the current generation of bags are expensive bling (which doesn't mean they're bad bags), but the classic C/S/T/O bags are all sensible bike luggage, and the frames can be bought separately if you want to get creative^[1].

It's possible to fit a Brompton luggage block to some other bikes with suitable geometry, and I'd consider that to be well worth doing.  (I also know someone who's worked out how to attach one to her wheelchair, to good effect.)


_{[1] I've got a crash-damaged Ortlieb front-roller bogged onto a cut-down Brompton frame, which works well for day rides.}

[drossall]

I have come to the conclusion that most, if not all, folders hit a limit in standard form of about 5'10"-6' which is probably a lot to do with the compromises needed to have an acceptable size folded.

Surely it's more to do with the compromises associated with what is, in the end, a one size fits all approach?

Some of the high end Tern Verge folders are very nice. I've got an X18 that rides like a "real" bike. But it's still a bit one-size-fits-all.

[mzjo]

(as well as dedicated luggage options)

This reminds me: The Brompton front luggage block is one of their best design decisions, and something that works really well for riding as well as folding.

Yes, most of the current generation of bags are expensive bling (which doesn't mean they're bad bags), but the classic C/S/T/O bags are all sensible bike luggage, and the frames can be bought separately if you want to get creative^[1].

It's possible to fit a Brompton luggage block to some other bikes with suitable geometry, and I'd consider that to be well worth doing.  (I also know someone who's worked out how to attach one to her wheelchair, to good effect.)


_{[1] I've got a crash-damaged Ortlieb front-roller bogged onto a cut-down Brompton frame, which works well for day rides.}

I agree. Cat has a big Brompton bag to go on hers and it really is a very useful (and  - dare I say it - well thought out bit of kit.

[mzjo]

I have come to the conclusion that most, if not all, folders hit a limit in standard form of about 5'10"-6' which is probably a lot to do with the compromises needed to have an acceptable size folded.

Surely it's more to do with the compromises associated with what is, in the end, a one size fits all approach?

Some of the high end Tern Verge folders are very nice. I've got an X18 that rides like a "real" bike. But it's still a bit one-size-fits-all.

Not going to argue with you on that one, it would only end up in me going round in circles until I fell over my feet but please stop making me jealous with photos like that!!

[Pickled Onion]

The main appeal is that it can be packed up and transported so well which would be idea for say cycling abroad if they can travel on planes which I believe they can, or putting in the back of the car to take on holidays.

I toyed with the idea of using my Brompton for short tours in Northern Europe as they are allowed on National Express if bagged and not a palaver to get on to Eurostar. I even have the kite fabric I was going to make a lightweight cover with. However, after a couple of 40km rides on it I scrapped that idea. It wasn't much slower than my usual bike, but it was obvious that 100-150km would make me feel pretty crap.

Any standard bike can travel on a plane, the difference is between around £25 for the Brompton and £50 or so for oversize luggage for a normal bike. It takes around 10 minutes to bag my bike at the airport, much longer than the 20 seconds a Brompton takes, but when you arrive 2 hours before the flight anyway it's neither here nor there.

Putting one in the back of a car is a perfect use. The fold means you don't have to worry about oily chain getting on anything. You then have the perfect way of exploring wherever you are without parking issues, navigating local buses, taking taxis, and endless walking.

If you want to get out further then the sort of travelling QG is talking about is great with a bike. Mostly bikes are allowed on trains and buses, but a Brompton means you don't have to worry about which ones do or knowing the Bulgarian for "do I need a bike ticket?". One thing to be aware of is that if something breaks, most of the parts are unique and you won't find a Brompton dealer outside very major cities and in many countries not at all. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to hitch a ride with a folded Brompton.

[drossall]

I have done 35-40 miles on my Brompton. This is on odd days when, having taken the train into London for work, I felt like riding home on a nice summer's evening. No issue with it, and would be happy to try further if the occasion arose but, whenever it has, I've had a "full-size" bike available and used that. The Tern was bought when the opportunity arose of multiple heavy discounts, with the intention of having a bit more fun on those rides home.

[mzjo]

The main appeal is that it can be packed up and transported so well which would be idea for say cycling abroad if they can travel on planes which I believe they can, or putting in the back of the car to take on holidays.

I toyed with the idea of using my Brompton for short tours in Northern Europe as they are allowed on National Express if bagged and not a palaver to get on to Eurostar. I even have the kite fabric I was going to make a lightweight cover with. However, after a couple of 40km rides on it I scrapped that idea. It wasn't much slower than my usual bike, but it was obvious that 100-150km would make me feel pretty crap.

Any standard bike can travel on a plane, the difference is between around £25 for the Brompton and £50 or so for oversize luggage for a normal bike. It takes around 10 minutes to bag my bike at the airport, much longer than the 20 seconds a Brompton takes, but when you arrive 2 hours before the flight anyway it's neither here nor there.

Putting one in the back of a car is a perfect use. The fold means you don't have to worry about oily chain getting on anything. You then have the perfect way of exploring wherever you are without parking issues, navigating local buses, taking taxis, and endless walking.

If you want to get out further then the sort of travelling QG is talking about is great with a bike. Mostly bikes are allowed on trains and buses, but a Brompton means you don't have to worry about which ones do or knowing the Bulgarian for "do I need a bike ticket?". One thing to be aware of is that if something breaks, most of the parts are unique and you won't find a Brompton dealer outside very major cities and in many countries not at all. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to hitch a ride with a folded Brompton.

But the Montana does most of those uses for me if/when I get the opportunity (retirement coming, no more company vehicles to shift!). The fold takes about 1 minute (usually a tiny bit longer because I have no need to be lightning fast). The great project (not very ambitious) is to do chunks of the Scandibérique with it which means using SNCF coach services where they've taken the trains away. A folder will be more practical for that than a full-size (and I have the advantage of using standard components    ). It's already the first choice bike for circuit tracing because it is easier to put in the car than the randonneuse. But it still wouldn't justify the specific characteristics of a Brompton!

[Pickled Onion]

But the Montana does most of those uses for me if/when I get the opportunity (retirement coming, no more company vehicles to shift!). The fold takes about 1 minute (usually a tiny bit longer because I have no need to be lightning fast). The great project (not very ambitious) is to do chunks of the Scandibérique with it which means using SNCF coach services where they've taken the trains away. A folder will be more practical for that than a full-size (and I have the advantage of using standard components    ). It's already the first choice bike for circuit tracing because it is easier to put in the car than the randonneuse. But it still wouldn't justify the specific characteristics of a Brompton!

Totally agree. Unless the specific need is to make frequent trips on public transport or be able to stash in the car alongside lots of other luggage, then a Brompton is not the right answer.

[Paul H]

I toyed with the idea of using my Brompton for short tours in Northern Europe as they are allowed on National Express

As are larger folders, I've traveled by coach with a bagged Airnimal several times, in the UK and across Europe.
I have a Brompton, am a fan of the fold, but not the ride, I doubt I'll ever ride it further than the nearest rail or bus station.
 

[zigzag]

living in london it would make sense to have a folding bike made locally, but every time i test rode it i was disappointed in how compromised the position and ergonomics were. also, it should weigh 1-2kg less and adopt some modern design features.