Author Topic: NCN cuts 25% of its routes (Read 10754 times)

Wowbagger · « **on:** 19 July, 2020, 09:05:39 am »

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jul/19/national-cycle-network-sustrans-cuts-quarter-uk-routes-safety-grounds?fbclid=IwAR27Ols2mEantG8fRcMJZWbYJ51F6xEMPh8s87Pl6jfsxqoLFcK8O8qBk2A

On safety grounds. The Coast to Coast is no longer on their approved routes list.

telstarbox · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 July, 2020, 09:45:43 am »

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grams · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 July, 2020, 10:02:45 am »

It’s pretty vague on whether muddy footpaths and flights of stairs are going too.

Paul H · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 July, 2020, 10:03:25 am »

Rather than the headline, what the article actually says is

Quote

Almost 19% of the network will now be designated for experienced cyclists only, and 4.5% (753 miles) of busy on-road sections will have all signage removed.

It would be great if it was all suitable for every rider, that isn't likely to happen anytime soon, classifying it would seem a sensible thing to do in the meantime.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 July, 2020, 10:27:16 am »

"46% bad."

Tim Hall · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 July, 2020, 10:53:10 am »

"Traffic free". What a crap phrase that is.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 July, 2020, 11:01:24 am »

"NCN that everyone has been criticising for poor quality in many places, finally recognises that large amounts of it are poor quality"

Or did I miss something?

J

Canardly · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 July, 2020, 11:36:35 am »

^ This.

grams · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 July, 2020, 11:41:31 am »

Quote from: quixoticgeek on 19 July, 2020, 11:01:24 am

"NCN that everyone has been criticising for poor quality in many places, finally recognises that large amounts of it are poor quality"

Well not really. They're still pretending their collection of unpaved foot paths, flights of stairs and shared use pavements is a few summers of volunteering away from being a high quality national network.

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 July, 2020, 11:42:18 am »

Quote from: quixoticgeek on 19 July, 2020, 11:01:24 am

"NCN that everyone has been criticising for poor quality in many places, finally recognises that large amounts of it are poor quality"

Or did I miss something?

J

No, I remember their consultation and it was one of my comments and it seems very many others that much of what's been put in place is pish and they need some quality control.

The report of it noted that, this it seems is the outcome.

The first hints o saw of them being able to force councils to do "something more" was when they forced Dundee City to reduce an S4 stretch of road down to S2 significantly narrowing it, increasing space either side etc. All so they would get money to put the bridge in over the railway so you can get from Perth Road to the waterfront (although it's mostly used by students going to tesco, who of course put no extra money in at all over their normal rates and taxes).

Hopefully this is the start of them putting in decent infrastructure rather than accepting pish because they're upstarts and the councils only want the money.

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quixoticgeek · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 July, 2020, 11:44:58 am »

Quote from: FifeingEejit on 19 July, 2020, 11:42:18 am

Hopefully this is the start of them putting in decent infrastructure rather than accepting pish because they're upstarts and the councils only want the money.

Good. Maybe soon the dictionary will need updating.

Sustrans NCN: The longest route between two points...

J

rafletcher · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 July, 2020, 11:53:50 am »

Graun headline writers seem to be jumping on the Sun etc. bandwagon in their search for click bait

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 July, 2020, 12:06:41 pm »

There's no indication in the article of anything being improved, only the removal of on-road sections from the official routes.

citoyen · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 July, 2020, 01:02:42 pm »

Quote from: grams on 19 July, 2020, 10:02:45 am

It’s pretty vague on whether muddy footpaths and flights of stairs are going too.

Yesterday's rant

I did try riding the section of NCN2 west of Hythe on a road bike once. Think I'll stick to the 40mph busy main road next time.

See also: 'Cyclists dismount' signs.

citoyen · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 July, 2020, 01:06:38 pm »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 19 July, 2020, 12:06:41 pm

There's no indication in the article of anything being improved, only the removal of on-road sections from the official routes.

Alas, I suspect improving conditions for cyclists on those main roads is out of their hands. The cycling lobby is not nearly as powerful as the motoring lobby.

On yesterday's ride, I pointed out to the boy that while I very much enjoyed the off-road route over the cliffs from Folkestone to Dover, back in the day I used to cycle along the main road, which was a single carriageway back then, rather than the pseudo-motorway it is today.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 July, 2020, 01:40:50 pm »

I meant improving the off-road or 'traffic-free' sections, such as replacing steps with slopes at reasonable gradient (or having both options), removing slaloms and other barriers, giving everything some sort of surface that doesn't require an MTB and cyclocross skills, etc.

Adam · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 July, 2020, 01:54:33 pm »

Sustrans only own a very small part of the NCN. It's down to the landowners who are the ones who insist on barriers, surface material used for construction etc etc. Private landowners and councils seem to love putting barriers in as they think motorbikes and cars will be straining to zoom along the paths. Even though motorbikes can often wiggle through them anyway.

I was active in the campaign for the Luton to Dunstable cycle path alongside the busway when it was built a few years ago. Luton Borough Council insisted on installing 19 A-frame barriers along the 7.5km length, and that was one of many reasons why Sustrans in fact initially refused to include the path as a Sustrans route and it took about 3 years to get the council to remove them and improve the route, which is now NCN606.

citoyen · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 July, 2020, 02:15:01 pm »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 19 July, 2020, 01:40:50 pm

I meant improving the off-road or 'traffic-free' sections, such as replacing steps with slopes at reasonable gradient (or having both options), removing slaloms and other barriers, giving everything some sort of surface that doesn't require an MTB and cyclocross skills, etc.

Well, the current rethink only relates to on-road sections, and as grams says, it seems that they don't see anything wrong with those type of obstacles.

Their muddled thought process of focusing on "ordinary" cyclists, rather than those who wear lycra and ride nice road bikes, seems to have blinded them to the possibility that even "ordinary" cyclists don't like having to carry their bikes up flights of stairs, and don't much care for riding over rough, muddy terrain with rocks and tree roots to negotiate.

Adam · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 July, 2020, 02:21:17 pm »

Sustrans started a couple of years ago to put more pressure on landowners generally to remove barriers, and launched a review in 2018 to make changes.

https://www.sustrans.org.uk/about-us/paths-for-everyone/

Polar Bear · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 July, 2020, 02:38:08 pm »

I have never been a great fan of Sustrans routes which are a mish mash of unsuitable surfaces, huge diversions and sometimes a hazardous stretch of very busy A road.

And, by having a network not adopted by the local authorities means inevitably that it cannot be maintained. I don't like to say that I predicted this all those years ago, but I did.

Sustrans routes are in the main not fit for purpose.

ElyDave · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 July, 2020, 03:01:08 pm »

Quote from: citoyen on 19 July, 2020, 01:02:42 pm

Quote from: grams on 19 July, 2020, 10:02:45 am
It’s pretty vague on whether muddy footpaths and flights of stairs are going too.

Yesterday's rant

I did try riding the section of NCN2 west of Hythe on a road bike once. Think I'll stick to the 40mph busy main road next time.

See also: 'Cyclists dismount' signs.

THIS in spades, I followed the NCN From Ardrossan ferry terminal to Ayr, never again. It had me going along the prom with families eating ice cream, through a park with dog walkers, off the main road through Ayr along the river, over a footbridge to cross over the road I'd left into a pedestrianised area. The next day towards Gretna had me leave a 40mph road, go through a caravan park, along a rutted track and back onto the same road, and separately through a forest.

The Ardrossan to Ayr sections were stupid and dangerous, whilst the other bits were just stupid. Go off road by all means, but show that on the signs as an offroad section and an alternative on-road.

grams · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 July, 2020, 03:20:51 pm »

My litmus test for this is NCN 33 north of Burnham-on-Sea which is literally just a soft sand beach with no sea wall or concrete path. I wouldn't want to try it on a mountain bike.

Sustrans are never going to get permission or cash to pave a beach, the Strava global heatmap indicates hardly anyone is riding on it, and yet it's still on the updated map. WTAF? Do they think it's going to turn into a useful route somehow?

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 July, 2020, 04:22:46 pm »

Quote from: grams on 19 July, 2020, 03:20:51 pm

My litmus test for this is NCN 33 north of Burnham-on-Sea which is literally just a soft sand beach with no sea wall or concrete path. I wouldn't want to try it on a mountain bike.

Sustrans are never going to get permission or cash to pave a beach, the Strava global heatmap indicates hardly anyone is riding on it, and yet it's still on the updated map. WTAF? Do they think it's going to turn into a useful route somehow?

That is seriously impressively awful!

Just... Wow...

J

simonp · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 July, 2020, 04:32:55 pm »

There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 July, 2020, 06:55:14 pm »

Quote from: simonp on 19 July, 2020, 04:32:55 pm

There's a tile I want that would require going out onto the mud. Trying to work out how to address this.

Tennis rackets on feet?
Snow Shoes
Mud Shoes?