Email from ACP re conversion of Pre Registration

[John Stonebridge]

Hi there

I got the email below from ACP on 11th May. 

I've highlighted a couple of bits in bold which strike me as potentially presenting difficulty to some riders ie those doing their 400km qualifier on 10th June and their 600 after then and before 24 June. 

The message below implies that somebody in that scenario wouldn't be able to start their registration until they had three events done, but would lose their registration by virtue of not having started it by 10 June (when they will be riding an audax!). 

Am I reading this correctly?  When they say 3 do they really mean 2?  When they say 10 June do they actually mean a later date?  (I'm doing a 400 this weekend btw but its a scenario that will apply to some riders) .   


Hello,

We thank you for being pre-registered for Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur 2023. You were more than 8400 to pre-register for a maximum number of 8000 places, which forced us to set up queuing lists. Not all pre-registrations will be converted into registrations and we believe that you will all be able to find a starting slot.
You should already  started your qualifying brevets. So, all you have to do now is convert your pre-registrations into registration starting on May 27 noon (Paris time) (June 03 for non-FFCT French people). To do this, you will enter your ACP account (https://myaccount.audax-club-parisien.com).

Registration forms will only be available from May 27. You can start your registration with only three brevets but you will need to provide the 4 approval numbers to have your registration validated.

Please note that you will lose your reserved place if you have not started your registration before June 10, 12:00 (Paris time).
Many of you want to change your departure time. This will be possible during registrations and especially starting on June 10th when slots not used for registration will be released.

So be ready to seize this opportunity on June 10 noon (Paris time)! You must have provided the 4 approval numbers of your qualifying brevets before midnight July 02 (Paris time). Help will be available on the registration page to help you find your approval numbers if you have lost them.
Your frame plate number as well as various documents will be sent to you by email when your entry is validated, no later than July 15th.

Be aware, for those who need a visa to travel to France, that an invitation letter is available (link DOCUMENT) on your ACP account (https://myaccount.audax-club-parisien.com) + PBP.

Best regards,
The organizing team

[Zed43]

The way I read this is that if your 3rd qualifier is on June 10th you lose your pre-registered timeslot as your ride will not be instantly registered at the ACP when you finish the event.

[Flâneur]

JSB - correct, I think this situation has been created by ACP changing their Rulz back in March, shortening registration timescales, after AUK had already set their qualification windows. I raised the same scenario as you have above in the thread at the time.

It's all a bit unsatisfactory and unnecessary by ACP IMO, although I think AUK could also have at least tried to communicate the issue also.

[LateStarter]

The problem has arisen because the “rules” changed some time in March, the 10th of June cutoff to have 3 qualifiers entered was originally 20th June.

From the January 2023 Presentation document

“Pre-registrations will be cancelled if remained unpaid for three clear days and on June 20th,2023 if the registration was not initiated (at least three BRM must be indicated in the registration form”

The earlier guidance just said qualifying brevets up to 30th June so Audax clubs arranged BRMs covering the maximum period and people arranged their rides accordingly

[John Stonebridge]

Thanks all.  Id not noticed that anomaly til now. 

Probably not something that will affect many (and in any event history suggests that an SR in PBP year results in a place at PBP if desired - even its via a pre-registration hokey cokey.   

[Ajax Bay]

Probably not something that will affect many (and in any event history suggests that an SR in PBP year results in a place at PBP if desired - even its via a pre-registration hokey cokey.

A proportion of riders complete a 600 before their 400, so they'd have 3 numbers already by 10 Jun and their 0 Jun 400 will complete their SR and they can complete registration on good time. (That was my plan but failed on the 600 12 days ago.)
Worth noting, John, that the 'thing' that's lost if a pre-registered rider doesn't start their registration by noon CEST 10 Jun, is their slot in a particular start wave, not the pre-reg itself (see other thread). So a rider who completes 3 of 4 after 10 Jun, but then completes their SR with all 4 numbers available by 3 Jul can still register, but the later they register the more they'll have the dregs of the choice of start waves.
Annoyingly, ACP have chosen noon CEST on Sat 10 Jun to free up all (1000+?) start slots, and I for one will probably be 120+km into a 600 and unable to snag a better start wave slot unless I schedule a cafe stop with good wifi and achieve a higher grade of fu using a phone (as opposed to 'normal' laptop) to access the ACP registration site and improve on my 'Q'.

[quixoticgeek]

Annoyingly, ACP have chosen noon CEST on Sat 10 Jun to free up all (1000+?) start slots, and I for one will probably be 120+km into a 600 and unable to snag a better start wave slot unless I schedule a cafe stop with good wifi and achieve a higher grade of fu using a phone (as opposed to 'normal' laptop) to access the ACP registration site and improve on my 'Q'.

Or bribe a trusted friend with an offer of cake if they will do the honours for you...

J

[LateStarter]

Worth noting ACP have been caught up in their own web, there are 42 600km events in France over the weekends of 10th, 17th & 24th June plus bunch of 400s

[Graeme]

Well that's my pre-registration converted to registration... just need to complete my last qualifier now.

[marcusjb]

Well - despite throwing my toys out of the pram after my 400 and deciding I probably wasn't up for PBP; I've paid my money. Managed to snag a slot in the 2nd wave of 90hrs, so everyone else can overtake me by around Mortagne...

Need to qualify yet - but now there's money on the table, that acts as motivation!

Just need to start to figure out logistics etc. Now I am employed rather than my own boss, I probably can't swing riding down.

[Bikeabilityman]

Decided to complete my registration a bit ago. Still on the 90 hour, 18:15 start. Maybe I’ll actually cycle all the way from Milton Keynes this time 😁

[Tomsk]

Decided to complete my registration a bit ago. Still on the 90 hour, 18:15 start. Maybe I’ll actually cycle all the way from Milton Keynes this time 😁

  Excellent! Mine is done - subject to the final 400km qualifier of course. At some point I'll start a thread for the ride to and from Rambouillet. Can I book your Nolan Sisters tribute act now for on-ride entertainment please?  One of my top cycling memories - was it 2015?

[felstedrider]

Completed my registration.  My ACP number for the Slaithwaite 600 was already up so all sorted.

I’ve booked a day time ferry for the Wednesday for a leisurely tour down.  I’ve not completely decided how and when I’m coming back yet.

[Flatlander]

Registered and paid, just the ferries to sort out then the bureaucracy is complete.
16:00 start, first time I've managed to get that since they had to be reserved.

Next some bike rides for fun.

[Bikeabilityman]

Decided to complete my registration a bit ago. Still on the 90 hour, 18:15 start. Maybe I’ll actually cycle all the way from Milton Keynes this time 😁

  Excellent! Mine is done - subject to the final 400km qualifier of course. At some point I'll start a thread for the ride to and from Rambouillet. Can I book your Nolan Sisters tribute act now for on-ride entertainment please?  One of my top cycling memories - was it 2015?

I’m in the mood for dancing? I must learn the lyrics to all the songs I start singing.

[Bikeabilityman]

Hi Philn

I had written in my diary to complete registration by 27th. In 2015, I forgot to complete by whatever date it was, went on the acp site a week or so later, and found I’d lost my time slot. I had to pick a new time, but the deposit I’d paid was still there, and had no issues completing the registration.

[Von Broad]

Completed my registration.

I'm hovering over the 'enter here' button.
The idea was to make a decision if I got round the FF600....which I did....but still no decisioin.
Still one more to do though.
But I need to try and sort another bike out.....I really can't be hauling a sack of spuds round PBP. I don't mind half a sack, but not a full one! Time is running out!!

With age only going in one direction, I find myself wondering not whether I want to do it, but whether I actually can do it - and I am prepared to put the work in to prepare [an aging body] properly for something like this.

I tried to find some stats the other day about the ratio of finishers by age group. I know the information is out there, because I think ACP published it in one of the brochures of past PBPs. It doesn't take much imagination to have an idea of what those stats might look like. Just be interesting to see them regardless. If you keep going round enough times sooner or later you find yourself in a age group an ever decreasing number of finishers. Go figure, as they say 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

DNF rate (segmented by 5-year age grouping, mostly) is pretty steady from sub-20s to sub-60s, trends up in the sub-70s and significantly increases after that. Only one 80 year old PBPer has ever finished.

[Neil C]

DNF rates by age from 2019 Results brochure -

18-29  26.4% of 242
30-39  25.8% of 1005
40-49  27.2% of 1712
50-59  25.1% of 2239
60-69  33.5% of 1083
70-79  55.2% of 134
80 -     100% of 3

[Von Broad]

DNF rates by age from 2019 Results brochure -

18-29  26.4% of 242
30-39  25.8% of 1005
40-49  27.2% of 1712
50-59  25.1% of 2239
60-69  33.5% of 1083
70-79  55.2% of 134
80 -     100% of 3

Thanks.
Interesting how that big block of 18-60 was basically similar in rate, creeps up after 60, and then basically falls off the edge of a cliff!
Tells its own story of what happens to us!!

Only one 80 year old PBPer has ever finished.

I'm sure there will be others henceforth, but goodness me, the sustained work a person has to do to even stand a chance of getting round something like PBP is seriously huge at that age. And the work starts not when you're 80, but much, much earlier.
At 64, it's a subject that has started to interest me a lot these days. For obvious reasons!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The 80-year old had a few 1200 DNFs in other countries before finally making the distance at PBP11.

Given the long glidepath of age-related performance decline, I suspect that successful 70+ riders are likely starting from a higher talent and/or fitness level than the 'average rider' and are maintaining their performance for as long as is practical.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Didn't have any problems completing my Registration (despite receiving the confusing email), and was able to do it in one go as the Fenlands Friends was already on the list.

[veloboy]

Completed my registration this past BH Monday without any problems. Was pleasantly surprised to see the BCM 600 brevet number was laready available; so that's me done, all qualified and converted entry paid up. 

[Oakville kid]

Hello, dithering, not completed registration yet.

Does anyone know if the Parking/Camping option (if still available) on the registration form includes tent camping facilities, whether arriving by car or bike?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Isn't that option just parking for campervans or is tent camping a real possibility?