Author Topic: LEL weather  (Read 10806 times)

Notfromrugby

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #25 on: 09 August, 2022, 11:47:05 am »
The real heatwave hasn't even started... it's forecasted from Wednesday/Thursday onwards, so it will hit the return leg. In my opinion, the issue is that a sizeable slice of randonneurs doing long distance events are always on the edge of failure... moving speed is too slow, waste too long at controls and tend to be rather overweight and unfit, as athletes. Inevitably, any small variation to the theme, being that more hills, more wind or more heat cause many of them to go into failure mode.

Hang on a minute, here you are saying that a lot of audaxers are overweight and unfit.

Then here,
Quote
ere is also a clear lack of preparation, but not the kind of preparation people do, which typically involve killing themselves with an impossible schedule of overnight rides for months.
you are saying they are overtraining.

That's a load of negativity.

I know people from this forum who (back when I used to ride a fair bit), who looked sizeable, but could ride me into the ground anytime. I was consistently at my heaviest when commuting 250miles a week; the mileages demanded a lot of eating.

Your point about the need to sleep and quality training, rather than endless miles, is a good one.

They are not over-training... in fact they are not training at all... they are over riding. Guy in question (which is your typical audaxer you see at most events) would try to fit as many 200 as possible in his calendar in preparation for a 600... that is not training. When I was doing Audax, I was doing something similar, I never managed to lose a gram, despite riding maybe twice as many miles as I do know... we all know in an Audax we eat like pigs, all sorts of junk and then we continue to eat for the following days. I never got faster either... all I improved was my ability to suffer through a long day... in essence I became more patient, maybe more resilient, but ultimately unable to tackle something like MC1K... so not a smidge better than when I started. In fact, my first 400 was also my fastest by quite some margin.

A coach would probably look at what he does, try to put some structure in his riding, reduce the mileage dramatically, include more quality miles (speedwork), force some rest days and some short recovery rides and suggest a better diet.

Notfromrugby

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #26 on: 09 August, 2022, 11:48:45 am »
I'm not an expert on any of this, I dont handle sleep deprivation well so I am stuck with 300-400 rides.

Wouldnt qualification rides help a bit in reducing the DNF ?  Surely a minimum BRM600 to qualify ?

No... People would sign up for a few of them, like they do for PBP, DNF the hard ones, and finish the easy ones... what would that prove?

Alex B

  • Headwind specialist
    • Where is there an end of it?
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #27 on: 09 August, 2022, 11:51:02 am »
I'm not an expert on any of this, I dont handle sleep deprivation well so I am stuck with 300-400 rides.

Wouldnt qualification rides help a bit in reducing the DNF ?  Surely a minimum BRM600 to qualify ?

Well PBP 2019 had a 32% DNF rate, even with rule relaxation to maximize finished numbers.


rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #28 on: 09 August, 2022, 11:55:35 am »
I've been over Killhope Cross many times in a car (I haven't cycled up it, but I have done the nearby Harthope Moss a couple of times, which is the same height).  Killhope Cross is grim: it's one of those concave hills that really kicks up towards the end.  The Teesdale route was fairly easy.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Notfromrugby

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #29 on: 09 August, 2022, 12:26:27 pm »
I've been over Killhope Cross many times in a car (I haven't cycled up it, but I have done the nearby Harthope Moss a couple of times, which is the same height).  Killhope Cross is grim: it's one of those concave hills that really kicks up towards the end.  The Teesdale route was fairly easy.

... on the plus side, with this forecast, the wise ones will have saved several kg of bags packed with rain gear, winter coats, spare clothes and whatnot... all you need is a pocket sized windproof, a warm base layer and a pair of arm warmers for the night and a good amount of SPF 30. The less wise will curse their mudguards and Carradices full of  heavy "what ifs"... it's probably an LEL that you can ride with a 7kg bike and a 2lt saddlebag... fun!  :thumbsup:

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: LEL weather
« Reply #30 on: 09 August, 2022, 03:11:04 pm »
I've been over Killhope Cross many times in a car (I haven't cycled up it, but I have done the nearby Harthope Moss a couple of times, which is the same height).  Killhope Cross is grim: it's one of those concave hills that really kicks up towards the end.  The Teesdale route was fairly easy.

I've ridden over it a few times and it’s horrible.  Westbound it’s like a wall; eastbound it’s like three walls with slightly less steep bits in between.  Hartside, on the other side of Alston, isn’t so bad but LEL doesn’t go that way.
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hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #31 on: 09 August, 2022, 03:40:41 pm »
[Not weather related]
I would concur with Alex B that Covid has left many riders' performance to be suboptimal.
Many will not have recovered fully and are only discovering their lack of 'top end' fitness now.
Some will not have been able to prepare.

I suspect Covid has caused some riders long-term harm unlike any other virus...

Notfromrugby

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #32 on: 09 August, 2022, 04:13:02 pm »
I suspect Covid has caused some riders long-term harm unlike any other virus...

I suspect in this instance, Covid has nothing to do with it.
There will be riders who had it bad and/or long, but they have most likely not started.
The heat is considerable for UK standards and if the route has been made more challenging, then it's easy to see how those who would normally be at the back will have to pack up and those who normally are in the bulge find themselves in unfamiliar territory, struggling for time.

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #33 on: 10 August, 2022, 10:48:25 am »
Killhope done, I walked the last but one bit that says 18% at the top. Harthope Moss to go, procrastinating now at the cafe

Cans definitely relate to the "bad" training, did a lot of junk miles tile hunting, about 8000km in 2022 so far, but just could find the motivation for high(er).intensity workouts on the trainer.

Some 540km to go, but first that hill

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #34 on: 10 August, 2022, 11:28:33 am »
I've been over Killhope Cross many times in a car (I haven't cycled up it, but I have done the nearby Harthope Moss a couple of times, which is the same height).  Killhope Cross is grim: it's one of those concave hills that really kicks up towards the end.  The Teesdale route was fairly easy.

... on the plus side, with this forecast, the wise ones will have saved several kg of bags packed with rain gear, winter coats, spare clothes and whatnot... all you need is a pocket sized windproof, a warm base layer and a pair of arm warmers for the night and a good amount of SPF 30. The less wise will curse their mudguards and Carradices full of  heavy "what ifs"... it's probably an LEL that you can ride with a 7kg bike and a 2lt saddlebag... fun!  :thumbsup:

That’s easy to say from your armchair. It’s gone from roasting hot in the day to absolutely freezing at night. Please come watch people in Innerleithen wearing five layers and still being too cold to leave.

Also people needed to make kit choices days in advance. Thinking you can predict the weather over varied parts of the country is bollocks.

Notfromrugby

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #35 on: 10 August, 2022, 12:50:32 pm »
I've been over Killhope Cross many times in a car (I haven't cycled up it, but I have done the nearby Harthope Moss a couple of times, which is the same height).  Killhope Cross is grim: it's one of those concave hills that really kicks up towards the end.  The Teesdale route was fairly easy.

... on the plus side, with this forecast, the wise ones will have saved several kg of bags packed with rain gear, winter coats, spare clothes and whatnot... all you need is a pocket sized windproof, a warm base layer and a pair of arm warmers for the night and a good amount of SPF 30. The less wise will curse their mudguards and Carradices full of  heavy "what ifs"... it's probably an LEL that you can ride with a 7kg bike and a 2lt saddlebag... fun!  :thumbsup:

That’s easy to say from your armchair. It’s gone from roasting hot in the day to absolutely freezing at night. Please come watch people in Innerleithen wearing five layers and still being too cold to leave.

Also people needed to make kit choices days in advance. Thinking you can predict the weather over varied parts of the country is bollocks.

Can you even wear 5 layers?
I've done cold mornings with a merino baselayer, a jersey and a very light jacket... all stuff I could pack easily in a saddle bag... it's cold, but it's always going to be, until you warm up...

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #36 on: 10 August, 2022, 01:42:34 pm »
Wouldn't surprise me if temperatures pre-dawn are pretty low due to the clear skies.  On Saturday my Bolt registered 5c for a long stretch of the A4 between 4-6am.

I'd never forego taking warm layers for overnight riding, no matter the time of year or forecast.  Exhaustion on long rides also makes me feel the need for extra layers. 
The sound of one pannier flapping

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #37 on: 10 August, 2022, 02:20:27 pm »
Ground fog and bitter cold in the valley (inversion? First experienced this in last PBP) sucks the life right out of you...

For future route planning: from cake at Chatterbox Cafe to flapjacks fro Drew at the hill's crest is 40m including a 15m walk (the last 750m)

Bloody hot now, I'm considering sleeping now at BC then ride to Louth during the night.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: LEL weather
« Reply #38 on: 10 August, 2022, 04:07:02 pm »
Currently sitting at the north end of the Humber Bridge and sweating copiously in shorts & T-shaped shirt. Rider on a Brompton just went by with no skin showing at all and at least three layers on his torso. And three other riders with jerseys open to the waist.  One man's hot is another's bloody freezing.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #39 on: 11 August, 2022, 06:21:37 am »
First thing I do each morning, open patio door, let in cool morning air.

First thing wife does an hour or so later, close patio door "its cold in here"
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Notfromrugby

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #40 on: 11 August, 2022, 09:17:45 am »
First thing I do each morning, open patio door, let in cool morning air.

First thing wife does an hour or so later, close patio door "its cold in here"

We must be secretly living in the same house!

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #41 on: 11 August, 2022, 11:38:19 am »
My wife even asked me to close the window before she got out of bed.  It was 23degC outside!

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #42 on: 11 August, 2022, 01:55:14 pm »
Wouldn't surprise me if temperatures pre-dawn are pretty low due to the clear skies.  On Saturday my Bolt registered 5c for a long stretch of the A4 between 4-6am.
We were also out on Friday night/Sat morning - almost gloves weather in the colder bits.  The low-lying bit from Dauntsey to Wootton Bassett was really chilly.  Jersey, fleece, Buff as neck warmer, and cap.  I had 3/4 shorts, luckily.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #43 on: 11 August, 2022, 02:11:02 pm »
Single malts?

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #44 on: 11 August, 2022, 02:15:07 pm »
Wouldn't surprise me if temperatures pre-dawn are pretty low due to the clear skies.  On Saturday my Bolt registered 5c for a long stretch of the A4 between 4-6am.
We were also out on Friday night/Sat morning - almost gloves weather in the colder bits.  The low-lying bit from Dauntsey to Wootton Bassett was really chilly.  Jersey, fleece, Buff as neck warmer, and cap.  I had 3/4 shorts, luckily.

"Dunfermline Innerleithen bitter cold!" said an Indian rider just now, showing off jersey pockets stuffed with extra clothes.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #45 on: 15 August, 2022, 08:32:13 pm »
Can you even wear 5 layers?  I've done cold mornings with a merino baselayer, a jersey and a very light jacket... all stuff I could pack easily in a saddle bag... it's cold, but it's always going to be, until you warm up...
These guys were definitely wearing 5 layers - their Brevet card was usually underneath the lot, and they were easy to count.  In several cases that included a duvet jacket, and in all cases I can recall looked like sensible kit. 

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #46 on: 15 August, 2022, 08:44:36 pm »
It is dead easy to wear 5 layers so I don't know why that is a surprise.  All you need to do is live somewhere cold (say Rochdale) sand ride through the winter - you'll find a way.  I frequently wear 5 layers and I still can't be seen from the side.

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #47 on: 15 August, 2022, 10:01:51 pm »
I've been over Killhope Cross many times in a car (I haven't cycled up it, but I have done the nearby Harthope Moss a couple of times, which is the same height).  Killhope Cross is grim: it's one of those concave hills that really kicks up towards the end.  The Teesdale route was fairly easy.

... on the plus side, with this forecast, the wise ones will have saved several kg of bags packed with rain gear, winter coats, spare clothes and whatnot...

Several kg, WTF are you carrying for summer audaxes?  My usual jacket for British summer overnight wet weather weighs 215g.  Even my winter primaloft mitts only weigh 40g

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: LEL weather
« Reply #48 on: 15 August, 2022, 10:03:58 pm »
Base layer, jersey, rain jacket, hi-viz gilet. That's four I rode with in the night.

Plus a thin fleece sweater for backup that could have made five. If the predicted weather had been more British I would also have packed a thin down gilet --> six (though it's rare I actually ride in it; but good when fixing punctures and other stuff where you're stationary)

And I am from the bloody Netherlands not some hot country in the far-east, I should be used to these temperatures (I blame BMI 19).

Re: LEL weather
« Reply #49 on: 15 August, 2022, 10:09:49 pm »
Most I've done is 4 layers - base layer & jersey (both long sleeve merino wool), down gilet & normal gilet (mostly for pockets), I could've gotten my rain jacket on between the jersey and down gilet but it wasn't necessary

To descend the hill from Bacup to Burnley when it was -5°C for the Knock Ventoux 300 this year