Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Topic started by: Graeme on 11 March, 2024, 11:09:31 am
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There is a symposium organised by the British Pilgrimage Trust being held in London on 17th April. Although the majority of their website focuses on walking, I'm thinking of turning my travel into a 'cycling pilgrimage'. I'm interested in the speakers:
Tom Holland (author)
Phoebe Smith (adventurer)
Dr Rupert Sheldrake (biologist)
Galahad Clark (cobbler)
Ruby Reed (co-founder of Advaya)
I think a pilgrimage is different to a touring holiday, in the sense of the intention with which a person sets out. If I go on a touring holiday, or if I go on a cycling-pilgrimage, there may be no practical difference, but there is a difference in my heart and head. I'm going to have to resist the temptation to ask Galahad if he has "Cobblers to the King" above his front door.
Sharing in case this nudges your interest.
Details: clicky-here (https://www.tickettailor.com/events/britishpilgrimagetrust/1145438?#)
O:-)
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I'm a member of the British Pilgrimage Trust and have done a number of their pilgrimage walks. They're not always suitable for cycles but can usually be easily adapted with a little tweaking of the routes.
I've devised two routes that I'm going (when I get the time) to walk/cycle and then submit for inclusion:
- The Eleanor Crosses (a cycle route from Lincoln to London visiting the 12 sites of the Eleanor Crosses)
- The English Martyrs route from Cambridge to Oxford
I think you're right about there being a difference between a pilgrimage and a touring holiday. A pilgrimage is as much about the internal journey as the route. Often people think of pilgrimage purely in a religious context but many of those walking the pilgrimage routes (e.g. the Camino) are not particularly religious.
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I'm a member of the British Pilgrimage Trust and have done a number of their pilgrimage walks. They're not always suitable for cycles but can usually be easily adapted with a little tweaking of the routes.
I've devised two routes that I'm going (when I get the time) to walk/cycle and then submit for inclusion:
- The Eleanor Crosses (a cycle route from Lincoln to London visiting the 12 sites of the Eleanor Crosses)
- The English Martyrs route from Cambridge to Oxford
I think you're right about there being a difference between a pilgrimage and a touring holiday. A pilgrimage is as much about the internal journey as the route. Often people think of pilgrimage purely in a religious context but many of those walking the pilgrimage routes (e.g. the Camino) are not particularly religious.
I've been watching Frieren (anime) and there is a journey there which feel like an internal experience, and certainly not religious. Our elf-mage hero certainly doesn't believe in the "goddess" of the story. I totally agree that pilgrimage doesn't have to be religious. I'm excited by the speakers and topics of this symposium, and an opportunity to develop my own understanding of what I'm doing. I've had a few self designed cyclo-pilgrimages, and each has brought something to my internal journey. Tickets bought, and the Diocese of Leeds agree that I can extend this learning experience into an immersive and practical exercise by cycling there and back from Huddersfield. Yay!
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"Dr Rupert Sheldrake (Biologist)" Hmm. Biologist is doing some heavy lifting there. Yes, he's got a PhD in biochemistry but he's surely better known for "inventing" morphic resonance.
Anyway, any reason to go on a bike ride sounds good to me, so have fun.
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"Dr Rupert Sheldrake (Biologist)" Hmm. Biologist is doing some heavy lifting there. Yes, he's got a PhD in biochemistry but he's surely better known for "inventing" morphic resonance.
Anyway, any reason to go on a bike ride sounds good to me, so have fun.
Lol
I sometimes refer to myself as a Chemist - but it would be stupid to leave me unattended in an analytical laboratory these days.
Yay for bike rides!
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Galahad's an interesting character. He's part of the Clark's Shoes dynasty and he's one of the co-founders of Vivobarefoot (I have a couple of pairs).
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Looks as though the last stages of the via Francigena are on for this year (hopefully the end of May). :thumbsup:
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Unfortunately I'm on shift so can't make it as looks just up my street.
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Looks interesting - tied up that evening though, so it's a shame it doesn't look as though it's being streamed or recorded
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"Dr Rupert Sheldrake (Biologist)" Hmm. Biologist is doing some heavy lifting there. Yes, he's got a PhD in biochemistry but he's surely better known for "inventing" morphic resonance.
We are proud to announce a partnership with Vivobarefoot to launch the first fully-conductive Grounded Vivobarefoot shoe, named “The Pilgrim”. As well as being a Wide, Thin & Flexible barefoot design bringing you closer to the earth and natural movement, the Pilgrim shoe will provide further grounding by conducting your body’s electrons straight into the ground. Several health benefits are associated with grounding, such as stress reduction, anti-inflammatory, sleep improvement and gut health.
Feels to me as though there may be some elements of woo involved here.
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"I like to wear my Vivobarefoot Grounded shoes when standing underneath a high voltage transmission line. I can feel the old, tired electrons streaming out of my body into the earth, where they're rejuvenated by the magnetic core, while the new, energised electrons from above pour into me."
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Huddersfield to London... I'm at the enjoyable stage of planning a route. Switching back and forth between RwGPS, BikeHike and Googlemaps, looking at popularity heatmaps, streetview and contours. I might provisionally book a couple of Travelodges to give me some flexibility on my first night.
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I have now booked my via Francigena pilgrimage walk (23 May - 2 June). I'm going to do the last 120km from Montefiascone to Rome.
I've had to book via a tour company, as accommodation is not as prevalent as on the Camino and has to (on the whole) be booked in advance.
I'll be flying to Rome and then getting the train from Rome to Montefiascone (for the grand sum of c. €6.50). It's only six days walking and I've booked a couple of extra nights in Rome - I'm just trying to see if I can get a room at the Domus Sanctae Marthae or whether I'll need to get a normal hotel (depends in part on whether Mr R decides to come out for the weekend - I'm not sure they'll be keen on us sharing a room at the DSM).
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I think a pilgrimage is different to a touring holiday
I think so too - for the pilgrim, there's the ultimate, highly significant destination, and the preceding days are, to some extent, to be 'endured'. Presumably most touring holidays are planned in the vein of 'seeing/doing good stuff every day (or two at most)'
If I go on a touring holiday, or if I go on a cycling-pilgrimage, there may be no practical difference, but there is a difference in my heart and head
Having done the last half of the Camino de Santiago by bike with friends, very much in a touring vein, seeing the delight of the proper pilgrims as they approached Santiago was humbling - we could see how much of a struggle it would have been for the foot pilgrims on the many preceding days. TBH I think it might be a hard thing to replicate by bike.
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I'm reading Wanderlust, A History of Walking, by Rebecca Solnit, and have just got to Chapter 4, which is about pilgrimage, both in religious and non-religious way (and how for some, an activity such as rock climbing might be more spiritually fulfilling than a walking pilgrimage). She doesn't have anything to say about cycling but it's a good read.
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I think a pilgrimage is different to a touring holiday
I think so too - for the pilgrim, there's the ultimate, highly significant destination, and the preceding days are, to some extent, to be 'endured'. Presumably most touring holidays are planned in the vein of 'seeing/doing good stuff every day (or two at most)'
I try to make it a mix of 'endurance' and 'seeing/doing' stuff. I tend to go for shorter walking days to enable this. I also tend to walk on my own, as then I don't have to to debate with other people about what we want to do. I like to be able to stop or do things spontaneously.
If I go on a touring holiday, or if I go on a cycling-pilgrimage, there may be no practical difference, but there is a difference in my heart and head
Having done the last half of the Camino de Santiago by bike with friends, very much in a touring vein, seeing the delight of the proper pilgrims as they approached Santiago was humbling - we could see how much of a struggle it would have been for the foot pilgrims on the many preceding days. TBH I think it might be a hard thing to replicate by bike.
I think symposia like this are good (the Confraternity of St James and the Confraternity of Pilgrims to Rome both offer these workshops quite regularly) at both exciting people about pilgrimage and also tempering their expectations. Quite often people who haven't done these sorts of walks don't really understand the strain it puts on you.
I'm planning to do the last 120km to Rome over six days of walking. So and average of 20k or 12.5miles a day (reality is several shorter days and several longer days). That doesn't sound much and people will say 'that should only take a few hours each day'. What they don't realise is:
- On these sorts of walks, your average walking speed will drop by about 1mph or more. So you might be able to walk at 3.5mph for a short period normally but most people won't be able to sustain that for several hours on end.
- You're often walking up and down hills/mountains (everything in Portugal seems to be uphill and this part of Italy is similar)
- You may well be carrying a pack - an extra 10-15kg makes a hell of a difference to speed and endurance.
- You're also often walking in hot weather (which tends to slow you down).
- You're navigating as well and it can take time to get your eye in for the markers.
I would encourage everyone to give it a go though - whether on two feet or two wheels. Even doing it solo you're never really alone - there's a camaraderie amongst pilgrims that is very special.
Just be realistic about what you're taking on.
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I had a wonderful couple of days as a pilgrim, and I've written up my thoughts here:
https://fatherhilarious.blog/2024/04/pilgrimage/
It's a longish read.
😇
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I had a wonderful couple of days as a pilgrim, and I've written up my thoughts here:
https://fatherhilarious.blog/2024/04/pilgrimage/
It's a longish read.
😇
It's a longaih but brilliant reason, you've got quite a talent for writing. If you remember message me when next year's is set as would be something I'd love to attend
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Saving it for this evening, Graeme. But I glanced just now and had a smile at Dean's famous aphorism!
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I had a wonderful couple of days as a pilgrim, and I've written up my thoughts here:
https://fatherhilarious.blog/2024/04/pilgrimage/
It's a longish read.
😇
It's a longaih but brilliant reason, you've got quite a talent for writing. If you remember message me when next year's is set as would be something I'd love to attend
It would be lovely to share the journey. If you have a moment, subscribe to the British Pilgrimage Trust for updates.
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Saving it for this evening, Graeme. But I glanced just now and had a smile at Dean's famous aphorism!
He's so quotable.
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Excellent resume, Graeme, thank you. I was particularly struck by your reminiscence of childhood involving Baldock! For reasons I won't go into here, I and two of my brothers received lengthy sentences at a boarding school near Watford. At the beginning of each term, we travelled from Stockton-on-Tees in Godshire either by train or an overnight coach. If it was the latter, we always stopped for "refreshment" at Baldock. I thought I had a memory of it being at Jack's Hill Cafe but can only find info about that being in Towcester. The Great North Road was well to the east of where the A1 is now in Huntigdonshire and Northamptonshire and I'm guessing you went down the old line?
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It's a good read. A couple of things that stood out for me were Dean's quote, which I hadn't heard before, and that the Shard is visible from so far off. Albeit, judging by the photo, from the top of a hill.
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It's a good read. A couple of things that stood out for me were Dean's quote, which I hadn't heard before, and that the Shard is visible from so far off. Albeit, judging by the photo, from the top of a hill.
It caught me by surprise, you know the way you're riding along and sometimes don't really know exactly where you are... I was in a world of my own at the time, I came around a corner and realised that the M25 was in front of me. I was coming downhill from near Cuffley:
(https://fatherhilarious.blog/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Screenshot_2024-04-23-12-41-14-226-edit_com.ridewithgps.mobile.jpg)
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It actually made me think of one of my own favourite (much shorter) rides, which includes a short but steep hill just outside Gloucester. Heading back south, you crest the hill and get your first view of the city, which is dead flat (as well as obviously much, much smaller than London) and I'm still struck how, in 2024, the tallest building is still the cathedral.
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My attention was grabbed by this sentence:
Not least, I re-read my dissertation on worship as a physical experience, and I loved hearing Dr Paula Gooder speak at St Paul’s, she wrote a wonderful book on the relationship between religion and the human body, and I learned from her that the neo-platonic concept of separation of body and soul are not the Jewish way of seeing humanity: we are not a soul trapped in an incarnated body… we’re more of an animated personality.
I'm interested in what you mean by "an animated personality" and how this relates to the "the Jewish way of seeing humanity"? Obviously you could tell me to read her book, but I'm hoping for a simple paragraph that might persuade me I have a chance of understanding the book!
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My attention was grabbed by this sentence:
Not least, I re-read my dissertation on worship as a physical experience, and I loved hearing Dr Paula Gooder speak at St Paul’s, she wrote a wonderful book on the relationship between religion and the human body, and I learned from her that the neo-platonic concept of separation of body and soul are not the Jewish way of seeing humanity: we are not a soul trapped in an incarnated body… we’re more of an animated personality.
I'm interested in what you mean by "an animated personality" and how this relates to the "the Jewish way of seeing humanity"? Obviously you could tell me to read her book, but I'm hoping for a simple paragraph that might persuade me I have a chance of understanding the book!
Paula wrote a very accessible book called "Body" which I was reading as source material for my dissertation several years ago. I was looking for arguments around the idea that worship could be physical rather than intellectual... ie - could I go for a bike ride and call it worship? Not saying that going for a bike ride is Christian worship, but exploring whether, if the intention was right, it could be.
I discovered a lot of neo platonic influence in my tutors, in books, and in a popular understanding of the separation of soul and body. But Hebrew understanding - years past - wasn't aligned with Greek thinking. Early Jewish faith didn't have a concept of the separation of soul and body (according to Paula), rather that humanity is created whole and indivisible. Hebrew (and by extension Christian) creation stories don't have a narrative of earthy vessels brought to life by the addition of a soul. There is no soul: only a human, a personality living a breathing as one indivisible unit.
I don't know if I'm helping or just rewording what I've already written.
I think the original body/soul idea was about encouraging Greeks to fight in wars confident that they would go to heaven as a soul when their body died. I think it started out as theatre, which later became popular understanding... and this body/soul fiction of Plato still persists today.
Hebrew / Jewish faith didn't originally see it that way. I don't know whether that's changed. Christians are certainly swayed by it and it causes a massive amount of confusion about death, resurrection etc.
A little from the blurb about Paula Gooder's book:
The word ‘spirituality’ is notoriously difficult to define or tie down. It is often used in a relatively vague way to refer to the inner relationship between one’s ‘spirit’ or ‘soul’ and God. The implication is that people only relate to God with their ‘inner’ being (the soul/spirit) and not with any other part of who they are. There is a lurking influence of Neo-Platonism within Christian thinking that tends to assume that the material is bad and the spiritual good; that there is a gaping hole between our inner and our outer selves and that the proper location of devotion is our inner being. There is a further assumption that, especially in the writings of Paul, the soul/spirit is to be placed in the ‘good’ category while opposite it, in the ‘bad’ category, is the body/flesh – leaving the question of what is meant by heart and mind largely ignored.
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It actually made me think of one of my own favourite (much shorter) rides, which includes a short but steep hill just outside Gloucester. Heading back south, you crest the hill and get your first view of the city, which is dead flat (as well as obviously much, much smaller than London) and I'm still struck how, in 2024, the tallest building is still the cathedral.
That may be a deliberate planning thing, like in that Canterbury that they have now, where the Arch Bish has some sort of veto over large erections and anagrams of "fuck".
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I don't know if I'm helping or just rewording what I've already written.
Both. You're adding more, but also just rewording can often be helpful.
I've sent a message about this to someone I know who recently converted to Judaism, but he hasn't replied yet. Not that I'd expect him to know, necessarily – he hasn't actually AFAIK undergone a formal conversion, just read a bit and started following various dietary and other Jewish rules. And it's just occurred to me ask someone else I know, who's an ordained Druid (I didn't know till earlier this year druids had ordination, but apparently they do; I think you even have to pass an exam!).
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It actually made me think of one of my own favourite (much shorter) rides, which includes a short but steep hill just outside Gloucester. Heading back south, you crest the hill and get your first view of the city, which is dead flat (as well as obviously much, much smaller than London) and I'm still struck how, in 2024, the tallest building is still the cathedral.
That may be a deliberate planning thing, like in that Canterbury that they have now, where the Arch Bish has some sort of veto over large erections and anagrams of "fuck".
Perhaps, but also Gloucester is not a large city, has no financial or similar industry to send up skyscrapers, and relatively low property prices. And of course being so flat emphasises it.
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I don't know if I'm helping or just rewording what I've already written.
Both. You're adding more, but also just rewording can often be helpful.
I've sent a message about this to someone I know who recently converted to Judaism, but he hasn't replied yet. Not that I'd expect him to know, necessarily – he hasn't actually AFAIK undergone a formal conversion, just read a bit and started following various dietary and other Jewish rules. And it's just occurred to me ask someone else I know, who's an ordained Druid (I didn't know till earlier this year druids had ordination, but apparently they do; I think you even have to pass an exam!).
Is there something that is niggling at you about this? Something you're trying to wrap your head around?
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It actually made me think of one of my own favourite (much shorter) rides, which includes a short but steep hill just outside Gloucester. Heading back south, you crest the hill and get your first view of the city, which is dead flat (as well as obviously much, much smaller than London) and I'm still struck how, in 2024, the tallest building is still the cathedral.
That may be a deliberate planning thing, like in that Canterbury that they have now, where the Arch Bish has some sort of veto over large erections and anagrams of "fuck".
I think that's something of an urban myth. The Cathedral authorities will probably be statutory consultees but they won't have a veto as such. The main protection for the Cathedral and the city skyline will come from the designation of World Heritage status, underpinned by the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 and the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979, the various Planning Acts, together with the National Planning Policy Framework and Circular 07/09 and the council's Local Plan. There will be protected views of the Cathedral which will prevent high rise buildings from being built nearby.
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I don't know if I'm helping or just rewording what I've already written.
Both. You're adding more, but also just rewording can often be helpful.
I've sent a message about this to someone I know who recently converted to Judaism, but he hasn't replied yet. Not that I'd expect him to know, necessarily – he hasn't actually AFAIK undergone a formal conversion, just read a bit and started following various dietary and other Jewish rules. And it's just occurred to me ask someone else I know, who's an ordained Druid (I didn't know till earlier this year druids had ordination, but apparently they do; I think you even have to pass an exam!).
Is there something that is niggling at you about this? Something you're trying to wrap your head around?
Not really, just curiousity.
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I don't know if I'm helping or just rewording what I've already written.
Both. You're adding more, but also just rewording can often be helpful.
I've sent a message about this to someone I know who recently converted to Judaism, but he hasn't replied yet. Not that I'd expect him to know, necessarily – he hasn't actually AFAIK undergone a formal conversion, just read a bit and started following various dietary and other Jewish rules. And it's just occurred to me ask someone else I know, who's an ordained Druid (I didn't know till earlier this year druids had ordination, but apparently they do; I think you even have to pass an exam!).
Is there something that is niggling at you about this? Something you're trying to wrap your head around?
Not really, just curiousity.
🥰
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It actually made me think of one of my own favourite (much shorter) rides, which includes a short but steep hill just outside Gloucester. Heading back south, you crest the hill and get your first view of the city, which is dead flat (as well as obviously much, much smaller than London) and I'm still struck how, in 2024, the tallest building is still the cathedral.
That may be a deliberate planning thing, like in that Canterbury that they have now, where the Arch Bish has some sort of veto over large erections and anagrams of "fuck".
I don't think its in any way an accident that Ely Cathedral is on the only 'ill for miles around. It does come in dead handy though when trying to get your bearings
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It actually made me think of one of my own favourite (much shorter) rides, which includes a short but steep hill just outside Gloucester. Heading back south, you crest the hill and get your first view of the city, which is dead flat (as well as obviously much, much smaller than London) and I'm still struck how, in 2024, the tallest building is still the cathedral.
That may be a deliberate planning thing, like in that Canterbury that they have now, where the Arch Bish has some sort of veto over large erections and anagrams of "fuck".
I think that's something of an urban myth. The Cathedral authorities will probably be statutory consultees but they won't have a veto as such. The main protection for the Cathedral and the city skyline will come from the designation of World Heritage status, underpinned by the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 and the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979, the various Planning Acts, together with the National Planning Policy Framework and Circular 07/09 and the council's Local Plan. There will be protected views of the Cathedral which will prevent high rise buildings from being built nearby.
Radio 4 this morning... the shadowy forces that prevent large erections revealed themselves... duh duh durrrrr: Griff Rhys Jones!
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It may be coincidence or planning, but while tile-hunting some time ago I came across this view of Oxford which gives the impression that it is nothing but a collection of dreaming spires set in a rural idyll, without any sprawling housing estates or car factories.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47850538242_0238b0200a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fUovW3)
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I wonder when that was taken, it's still quite low rise, but you might see more concrete these days.
If you could find a high spot you could have a similar view of Cambridge, just don't get Addenbrookes or Girton in the picture
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I wonder when that was taken, it's still quite low rise, but you might see more concrete these days.
May 21st 2019 at 9:36 a.m.