Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: Wowbagger on 18 December, 2014, 09:56:33 am

Title: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 18 December, 2014, 09:56:33 am
I have real problems with sleep.

I'm not insomniac - every so often I have something troubling my brain which keeps me awake, but it's too infrequent to be called a problem. My problem is that I'm permanently tired and always ready to nod off. The night just gone is an extreme case, but Mrs. Wow went to bed at about 10.30 last night. I was very tired and went to sleep in my chair. I was well away. At around midnight, Dez also decided to retire and turned the light out, forgetting I was still there, and this woke me up enough for me to go to bed.

Our bedroom is a bit colder than the downstairs room where we always sit. That's not very warm - 20°C or so, usually a bit less - but I like a cool, well-ventilated bedroom. I think this tends to wake me up a bit to start with, but it wasn't that long before I was asleep again. I awoke at 5.30am (bowel o'clock) but from about 5.45 I was fast asleep again, waking a couple of times as Mrs. Wow stirred, but going back to sleep once again. At about 9 am I decided enough was enough.

Now I feel more tired than I did before I went to bed. I reckon I had at least 7 hours' sleep in bed, and at least an hour in the chair beforehand, and when I get the chance I have a nap in the afternoon as well. It's a damned nuisance. It could be a side effect of rheumatoid arthritis - I understand that that makes you sleep more than normal - but whatever it is, I find it a right pain.

Anyone else have really annoying sleep patterns?
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: tiermat on 18 December, 2014, 10:00:40 am
My sleep patterns are completely fucked up at the moment, due to the oral steriods I am taking. No matter what time I go to bed I am wide awake at 04:00, home or away.

It is really starting to piss me off.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 18 December, 2014, 10:04:42 am
Steroids - I believe you are both taking them.

I'm taking cinnarazine before I go to bed, because if I don't then vertigo attacks give me a very disturbed night. Trouble is, the cinnarazine makes me a bit dopy during the day. Can't think straight.

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 18 December, 2014, 10:16:06 am
I'm not on steroids.

Methotrexate isn't a steroid - at least, so far as I know. It's a nasty drug with a fair number of potential side-effects, but it's used as an immunosuppressant when prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis.

Folic acid - to protect the bone marrow from the long-term effects of methotrexate.

Alendronic acid - to stimulate the osteoplasts as a counter to osteoporosis.

Calcichew - a source of calcium for the osteoplasts to work on.

That's the lot, doctor.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 18 December, 2014, 12:03:10 pm
I know little about sleep apnea but wonder if that's a component of your trouble...

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: nikki on 18 December, 2014, 12:38:02 pm
Ah yes, a friend suffered from sleep apnea. I remember him telling the story of the monitoring and then the OH! THAT EXPLAINS IT THEN! when he got the results. Apparently he was stopping breathing every $Very_Short_Time all through the night and incredibly knackered every day as a result.

Also in the spirit of widgets, have you come across those smartphone apps that claim to monitor your sleep patterns and then wake you at a suitable point in your sleep cycle? No idea if they're any use, but I reckon you'd get some satisfaction out of knowing you were at least accumulating data :)
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 18 December, 2014, 12:47:31 pm
My sleep patterns are the opposite.  I struggle to sleep much after 5am these days and feel tired a lot of the time.  My sleep is often worse during the SAD months but I've countered that by cutting out alcohol from when the clocks go back to Easter (with a break for Christmas 25 - 31).  Part of it may be a reasonably high caffeine intake (2x coffee, 3 x tea) per day, but I now require caffeine to concentrate. 

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 18 December, 2014, 01:26:31 pm
<pedant> I hope CET puts his clocks FORWARD at Easter.

Caffeine has a long half-life and those sensitive to it should avoid after 6pm and not exceed the equivalent of 5 cups of coffee/tea per day at any time.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Ruthie on 18 December, 2014, 06:06:22 pm
I'm not on steroids.

Methotrexate isn't a steroid - at least, so far as I know. It's a nasty drug with a fair number of potential side-effects, but it's used as an immunosuppressant when prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis.

Folic acid - to protect the bone marrow from the long-term effects of methotrexate.

Alendronic acid - to stimulate the osteoplasts as a counter to osteoporosis.

Calcichew - a source of calcium for the osteoplasts to work on.

That's the lot, doctor.

What Helly said.  It may well be getting a referral to a sleep clinic to be assessed for sleep apnoea.  It's worth a try, Shirley?

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: jsabine on 18 December, 2014, 06:34:57 pm
cutting out alcohol from when the clocks go back to Easter (with a break for Christmas 25 - 31). 

<pedant> I hope CET puts his clocks FORWARD at Easter.

<out-pedant>
I'm sure he does: he cuts out booze from when the clocks go back until Easter.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Chris S on 18 December, 2014, 07:11:34 pm
Wow - I use a Fitbit One for counting steps. One of its other party tricks is to monitor sleep quality - presumably by measuring restlessness. If you set it to "sensitive" setting, it gives a pretty good reflection of your restlessness - and I'm betting there's a decent match with any apnoea episodes.

They're only about £70 - and might be some kind of alternative if you're confronted with the NHS "Sometime in July" kind of wait.

ETA: Edited to correct for the (frankly) fucking ridiculous spelling of apnoea.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Ham on 18 December, 2014, 07:13:13 pm
I discovered that I had sleep apnoea driving, when I fell asleep at a traffic light. In my case it turned out to be one of my nasal passages was completely blocked necessitating reaming out (there may have been a more technical and medical description). Are you snoring? it might be as simple as that,  it has to be worth trying the "Breathe Easy" strips that open your nasal passages, very easy to sleep with, if you notice any improvement it signifies a direction.

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Ruthie on 18 December, 2014, 07:20:17 pm
Wow - I use a Fitbit One for counting steps. One of its other party tricks is to monitor sleep quality - presumably by measuring restlessness. If you set it to "sensitive" setting, it gives a pretty good reflection of your restlessness - and I'm betting there's a decent match with any Apnea episodes.

They're only about £70 - and might be some kind of alternative if you're confronted with the NHS "Sometime in July" kind of wait.

Apnoea just looks like someone not breathing in after they've breathed out.  Usually an apnoeic episode is followed by a massive snore, but no restlessness per se. 

Sleep studies FTW.

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: nikki on 18 December, 2014, 07:25:53 pm
Are you snoring?

PMSL!  ;D
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: nikki on 18 December, 2014, 07:30:37 pm
If YACF camping trips are anything to go by, I think we may have several candidates for sleep apnoea...


Do we have any data on how well Mrs Wow sleeps?!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: barakta on 18 December, 2014, 09:27:16 pm
My dad and his wife both have sleep apnoea and both have pap machines which have improved their sleep and therefore lives massively. 

Wow, I would mention your sleep concerns to your medics as it could be your RA or it could be other stuff which is worth eliminating.  They may also have ideasTM. A lot of my students with RA (and other auto immune conditions) mention not feeling refreshed after sleep as a common impact.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Vince on 18 December, 2014, 09:39:42 pm
If YACF camping trips are anything to go by, I think we may have several candidates for sleep apnoea...


Do we have any data on how well Mrs Wow sleeps?!

I sleep much better when camping. Mainly because Mrs Wunja doesn't wake me up to tell me I'm snoring.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 19 December, 2014, 05:31:38 am
Thanks for the replies, one and all. I will be following this up next week. I'm currently having a bout of insomnia in Maidstone. This bedroom is much too hot for me, even though the window is open. The fact that the window is open means that I can hear a song thrush with an unseasonal burst of testosterone and I was also disturbed by the 5.15 or whatever time it was in Maidstone West.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Ningishzidda on 19 December, 2014, 09:50:11 am
Google "Lettuce sandwich insomnia".
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: LEE on 19 December, 2014, 10:12:18 am
Thanks for the replies, one and all. I will be following this up next week. I'm currently having a bout of insomnia in Maidstone. This bedroom is much too hot for me, even though the window is open. The fact that the window is open means that I can hear a song thrush with an unseasonal burst of testosterone and I was also disturbed by the 5.15 or whatever time it was in Maidstone West.

When you can't sleep then everything is a disruption.  The pillow isn't quite soft enough, the blankets are a bit heavy on your feet, the clock is ticking too loudly.

I went through a spell of it a few years back, when i was at my heaviest ever (maybe coincidental) .

I read some advice that, although breathtakingly simple, bordering on stupid perhaps, seemed to work.

1) Never have naps during the day
My Father in Law seems to pride himself on not needing much sleep but the old bugger falls asleep in front of the TV about 10 times a day.  Most films are a total puzzle to him.
Hardly surprising he wakes up early, he gets a decent sleep during the day.

2) Don't try to go to sleep...try to stay awake.
If I refuse to go to sleep, by reading and reading, then more often than not I'd wake up, with the book on my face after a good night's sleep.

Kindle Paperwhite is perfect for this as it doesn't disturb your partner.

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Poly Hive on 20 December, 2014, 04:19:51 pm
There are some excellent sleep tapes available if you do some searching. Paul McKenna is very good and if you can find it Dee Buchanan is also excellent. When I had a pretty stressful job offshore they got me off to sleep more times than I like to remember.

PH
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 26 April, 2018, 04:26:42 pm
OK, rather belatedly, perhaps, I have been diag-nosed with sleep apnoea. Some months ago I wore a thingy on my finger to test oxygen levels. According to the results, the consultant told me that during the night in question I woke up some 60 times during a 7-hour spell in bed. he also said that I was a "fidget". No wonder I wake up tired!

I have to go to another clinic in 6-8 weeks to be fitted and trained in the use of an oxygenating machine that will allow me to sleep better. I think this machine is mains-only so I doubt that I will be taking it to Pembrokeshire, even assuming I have it fitted by then.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: MikeFromLFE on 26 April, 2018, 09:06:04 pm
I haven't a clue what's changed in the last fortnight, but after several years of being unable to fall asleep, and waking up feeling dreadful - I've recently been dropping off straight away and waking up bright as a button at about 7:30.
I just need to bottle it, whatever it is, in case I lose the recipe.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: tonyh on 26 April, 2018, 09:29:20 pm
Wonderful! Bottle lots and lots and lots of it!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: ElyDave on 27 April, 2018, 12:10:08 am
well, considering I was up at 6 as usual, adn I'm still here now, my current bout of insomnia is not resolved.

Last night I went to bed about midnight and lay there with my mind wandering. 

Apnoea, I'm not sure, I'm not the classic candidate for it at <70kg and 1.75m, and I don't have the symptoms of day time napping (although I did have a ten minute snooze after my post lunch coffee today).  I just don't seem to be tiring myself routinely.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 27 April, 2018, 06:41:33 am
Hi / I work for Resmed Uk (market leading sleep solution company).   Go get yourself an apnea test done by your gp or privately.   It’s incredibly easy and can be done at home.   If you don’t get the right help from your gp give us a ring at Resmed.    We have clinicians who can provide you with the apnea home test kit very cheaply (might even be fee).   

Plenty of slight, fit athletes have apneas and have no idea.   You have classic symptoms of a mild sufferer.   If you did need cpap it’s really nothing to worry about and can change people lives.  If you are having apneas the long term effect of going untreated is horrific.   Get it ruled out professionally

Hope you get it sorted
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Jaded on 27 April, 2018, 06:58:37 am
Hi TREJ, hat length of gap in breathing would be considered to be apnoea?
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 27 April, 2018, 07:20:55 am
Apnea is the cessation of breathing during sleep. By a narrowing of the upper airway apneas occur or breathing stops.   Your body deals with it by gasping for air and you momentarily wake up.   Depends how many of these you have an hour if you need treatment but if you are having multiple apnea the loss of oxygen and stress of not breathing can lead to all kinds of secondary conditions.

In mild cases you will just feel Unsatisfied and tired after sleep and get mild  day time sleepiness.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Jaded on 27 April, 2018, 07:41:07 am
It's not me, it's me listening to my partner...
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 07 July, 2018, 09:37:36 am
Last night was my first wearing a face mask attached to an air pumping machine (a Resmed Air10). I picked it up at Basildon Hospital yesterday and watched a video and power point presentation.

I was surprised how easily I slept with an Elephant Man mask on my face. When I had finished sleeping the machine told me that I had had 5h 59m using the mask but that the mask seal wasn’t good. I discovered that the tube wasn’t properly plugged into the mask, but I am also aware that beards are an issue where leaky masks are concerned. I have read that the chief issue of a leaky mask is that is stresses the machine more as it has to work harder and will wear out more quickly. I have also learned that there are lots of things that one can spend money on!

Jan said that she woke up several times in the night but not once did she hear me snoring. I can’t say that I feel any more refreshed than usual, but we were told it can take up to 3 months to get used to wearing the machine. That being the case, I think I have had a good start.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Pedaldog on 07 July, 2018, 10:45:33 pm
I'm in a bad way, the last 2 weeks and another 2 to 3 weeks still to come. I can't use the C-pap machine due to the recent "Drillaholeinnahead" surgery. the "Plug" in my skull needs to be kept clean, dry and most importantly, in place. The straps of the mask make this too risky until the Plug comes out, I am a very Mobile Sleeper, so I'm getting the waking up (62 times every hour, according to the last test) and the snoring, last reckoned at 1100 snores in a 8 hour sleep session, is probably not making me popular with the rest of North Lancaster. Luckily, my machine is suitable for use with a, have to buy it myself, 12 volt traction battery. Means I can risk camping, car as transport for the weight, and not risk being Hacked to DETH by disgruntled fellow campers.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Gattopardo on 07 July, 2018, 11:17:38 pm
Trepanning....cool

Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 08 July, 2018, 10:54:12 am
Second night went rather well. 7 hours’ machine use and I think I feel more refreshed. For years I have never liked sleeping on my back. Even when I am awake, as soon as I start to relax I can feel my airways collapsing and restricting my breathing. With the machine pumping away that doesn’t happen.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Pedaldog on 08 July, 2018, 11:15:46 pm
Trepanning....cool

In a Stiff upper lip, Don't scream out loud Stylee!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 July, 2018, 11:36:33 am
The machine sends my results to a web page and gives me a score /100 depending on certain factors. The first three nights have been 88, 92 and 90, which it says are excellent. Where I lost most of my points is on mask fit (9, 13 & 10/20). In order to get the best fit, I have to have it uncomfortably tight. This is entirely down to Beard. I also had 8.7, 1.5 and 5.n apnoea events per hour on each night respectively which implies, quite logically, that the better the fit the fewer apnoea events I get.

I phoned the hospital to see if they would provide a nasal cushion mask, which bypasses facial hair. I have a feeling that they don't but I am prepared to buy one if necessary. The guy who conducted the presentation - was he NHS staff or a company rep? I think he was NHS staff, because he warned us against spending money - and this thing could become a money sink...

At the presentation, he asked for a volunteer. I offered my services, but he rejected me because of my beard, and when he handed me the mask he seemed fairly pessimistic that I would get good results with it. The guy he did use as a guinea pig had stubble and the seal on his face wasn't brilliant.

So I have two options, the second of which is the nuclear option of beard removal. I shall try the mask first. Either way involves spending money (I don't possess any shaving kit of any kind), but beard removal also involves lots of wasted time shaving every day.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 10 July, 2018, 02:47:14 pm
The machine sends my results to a web page and gives me a score /100 depending on certain factors. The first three nights have been 88, 92 and 90, which it says are excellent. Where I lost most of my points is on mask fit (9, 13 & 10/20). In order to get the best fit, I have to have it uncomfortably tight. This is entirely down to Beard. I also had 8.7, 1.5 and 5.n apnoea events per hour on each night respectively which implies, quite logically, that the better the fit the fewer apnoea events I get.

I phoned the hospital to see if they would provide a nasal cushion mask, which bypasses facial hair. I have a feeling that they don't but I am prepared to buy one if necessary. The guy who conducted the presentation - was he NHS staff or a company rep? I think he was NHS staff, because he warned us against spending money - and this thing could become a money sink...

At the presentation, he asked for a volunteer. I offered my services, but he rejected me because of my beard, and when he handed me the mask he seemed fairly pessimistic that I would get good results with it. The guy he did use as a guinea pig had stubble and the seal on his face wasn't brilliant.

So I have two options, the second of which is the nuclear option of beard removal. I shall try the mask first. Either way involves spending money (I don't possess any shaving kit of any kind), but beard removal also involves lots of wasted time shaving every day.


PM sent.  Just to add.... your sleep scores look very good for someone new to cpap.  Well done!  Takes some people months to get on with it.

As I said in my pm, try loosening it off.   You could buy the newest Airfit F20 soft touch face mask privately but you are looking at a one of cost of around £100 with about £30 extra every 6 months for new seals as they are memory foam and none cleanable unlike the rubber on your quattro.

A beard should still work though with Quattro.   Your scores suggest everything is pretty good.

One tip is to make sure you clean the seal frequently but only ever do it with standard green fairy liquid.   Never use anything else especially if its something with oil or skin softener in it (baby wipe for example).   Green fairy liquid really helps the mask to stop leaking even after months/years of use (although your sleep clinic should change the seal each year)
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 July, 2018, 10:32:06 pm
Thanks. That's encouraging.

I spoke to the guy who conducted the presentation who was adamant that the mask I was equipped with was exactly right for me. He didn't think a nasal mask could help because of my moustache and the probability that I would sleep with my mouth open (mostly I don't think I do) allowing air to escape rather than keeping my airways inflated. Quite how he knows this is exactly the right mask for me based upon a quick glance I don't know. Also, it seems that the SD card in each machine have been personalised for the owner. All rather a lot to take in on a single seminar. I could have done with some personalised paperwortkto tell me what's what.

I have trimmed the beard & moustache this evening so I will see if that makes any difference to tonight's readings.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: andrewc on 10 July, 2018, 10:52:05 pm
If you are coming to Mildenhall I can pop a little friend in my pannier.... :-D


(https://www.maggardrazors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/parker-srb-shavette.jpg)
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 July, 2018, 10:52:57 pm
Camping is a problem now unless I have a hookup. I need a mains supply to keep my airways open!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 11 July, 2018, 12:02:33 am
Camping is a problem now unless I have a hookup. I need a mains supply to keep my airways open!

If only you had some sort of enormous battery on wheels you could plug it into...
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 July, 2018, 09:38:15 am
Camping is a problem now unless I have a hookup. I need a mains supply to keep my airways open!

If only you had some sort of enormous battery on wheels you could plug it into...

I don't know how to obtain mains power from a Leaf battery.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Chris S on 11 July, 2018, 09:46:05 am
Camping is a problem now unless I have a hookup. I need a mains supply to keep my airways open!

If only you had some sort of enormous battery on wheels you could plug it into...

I don't know how to obtain mains power from a Leaf battery.

Plug in inverter?

Kim will be along shortly with all the efficiency/loss related reasons it would be a Bad Idea. Or not. I have no idea.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: ScumOfTheRoad on 11 July, 2018, 09:48:09 am
There seems to be some expertise on sleep apnoea here. I would like to ask something. I dont like discussing Mrs Scums medical history on here, but I shall a bit.
Mrs Scum has MS, and when she is asleep she often has episodes of breathing appearing to stop and then starting again with lots of snoring and choking. sometimes I am a bit afraid that she will just stop breathing.

I guess the advice will be to consult a doctor. But does anyone know if this is common in MS?
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 July, 2018, 09:48:39 am
But would that not require the car to be switched on all night, using electrons for many other purposes (eg running lights)?

SOTR: that sounds exactly like the symptoms of sleep apnoea. There must be some online videos of people suffering from this for you to compare.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHchEaObaBo

The guy addressing us reckoned that those jaw-shifting devices led to long-term problems.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: ScumOfTheRoad on 11 July, 2018, 09:49:50 am
Camping is a problem now unless I have a hookup. I need a mains supply to keep my airways open!

If only you had some sort of enormous battery on wheels you could plug it into...

I don't know how to obtain mains power from a Leaf battery.

Plug in inverter?

Kim will be along shortly with all the efficiency/loss related reasons it would be a Bad Idea. Or not. I have no idea.

Or a team of YACFers pedalling static bikes hooked up to a generator.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Butterfly on 11 July, 2018, 09:50:29 am
Can you rig up a solar panel and leisure battery system like the campervans?
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Chris S on 11 July, 2018, 09:54:10 am
Solar-powered Wowbagger? Yeah, I can see that.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 July, 2018, 09:59:24 am
Can you rig up a solar panel and leisure battery system like the campervans?

Trouble is, I tend to sleep at night. How about a lunar panel?
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 11 July, 2018, 10:34:39 am
There seems to be some expertise on sleep apnoea here. I would like to ask something. I dont like discussing Mrs Scums medical history on here, but I shall a bit.
Mrs Scum has MS, and when she is asleep she often has episodes of breathing appearing to stop and then starting again with lots of snoring and choking. sometimes I am a bit afraid that she will just stop breathing.

I guess the advice will be to consult a doctor. But does anyone know if this is common in MS?

No clinical background here but the answer to both questions is yes.   Get her to a sleep specialist or ring ResMed in Harwell/Oxon and speak to them.   I do not work for them anymore so I am not even biased!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 11 July, 2018, 10:36:57 am
But would that not require the car to be switched on all night, using electrons for many other purposes (eg running lights)?

SOTR: that sounds exactly like the symptoms of sleep apnoea. There must be some online videos of people suffering from this for you to compare.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHchEaObaBo

The guy addressing us reckoned that those jaw-shifting devices led to long-term problems.

There are official and unofficial solutions for powering the device during camping trips...some more expensive than opthers....again, I am sure ResMed will be happy to help.  They really are very good
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 11 July, 2018, 01:54:38 pm
Camping is a problem now unless I have a hookup. I need a mains supply to keep my airways open!

If only you had some sort of enormous battery on wheels you could plug it into...

I don't know how to obtain mains power from a Leaf battery.

Plug in inverter?

Kim will be along shortly with all the efficiency/loss related reasons it would be a Bad Idea. Or not. I have no idea.

Yeah, it's bloody stupid:  You can run a respectably-sized inverter from the Leaf's 12V system, and the DC/DC converter will keep the 12V battery charged from the traction battery.  Problem is the car needs to be in 'ready to drive' mode (analogous to an ICE with the engine running) for that to happen, otherwise you deplete the 12V battery and - since that's used to power the computers and bootstrap the EV system - find yourself in the embarrassing situation of needing to jump-start your electric car.  Sure, it doesn't make a noise, but it's inefficient, does waste power on other ancillary systems (eg. the running lights), and means that anyone could hop in the car and drive off with it.

So yeah, reasonable for running a power tool or something, but not really for keeping a PAP machine going all night.

Seems like a missed opportunity that EVs can't efficiently output mains power, preferably cutting off automatically at a pre-selected charge level, so you don't get stranded.  (Perhaps using the BFO inverter that they already have on board to drive the motor.  All it would really need would be a contactor, the right software and some wiring.)  I expect it's a feature we'll start to see in the vans and off-road vehicles as they appear.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 July, 2018, 06:43:05 pm
What makes it sillier is that this machine would be great at pumping up downmats.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 11 July, 2018, 07:22:59 pm
What makes it sillier is that this machine would be great at pumping up downmats.

I bet that would make the stats look interesting.  :)
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Butterfly on 12 July, 2018, 08:57:12 am
Can you rig up a solar panel and leisure battery system like the campervans?

Trouble is, I tend to sleep at night. How about a lunar panel?

Charge the battery in the day and use it at night. You could have two batteries on relay if one is insufficient. There are some on ebay that specifiacally mention use for CPAP, although I don't know haw feasible it actually is.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 12 July, 2018, 12:09:01 pm
If we're serious about this, then knowing the power requirements of the machine would be useful.  If it can be fed DC from a suitable battery, that could greatly simplify matters.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 July, 2018, 01:11:07 pm
It looks as though it can.

https://mysleep.resmed.com/GB/en/CPAP-Accessories/AirSense-10-accessories/ResMed-DC-DC-Converter-%28for-AirSense-10%29/p/37297?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-JvaBRDGARIsAFjqkkodNEK0wdhocJV94bwehDMMI0SHvUHlC_WUQTwD4gXmPvyx0Fdx9kAaApinEALw_wcB
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 12 July, 2018, 02:02:23 pm
The manual quotes 51W typical consumption (106W peak) with the Air10.  So you're looking at a battery in the 400-500Wh range.  That's e-bike size, though annoyingly most e-bike systems use higher voltages.

A 20-30Ah 24V leisure battery might be a reasonable option (LiFePO4 if you want to keep the weight/bulk down).  Obviously you'd need to be able to charge it up during the day...
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 13 July, 2018, 07:59:07 pm
Oh bollocks - but not that surprising.

The DVLA have revoked my licence. They have an online questionnaire that sleep apnoea patients are legally obliged to fill in - big fines and possible imprisonment for telling porkies. There was a bit in it about "Is your condition controlled?" Given that, last Sunday, I fell asleep so abruptly that the hot cup of tea I was holding ended up in my lap, I could hardly honestly say that it is.

So I have to wait and see whether the treatment I am currently undergoing has any beneficial effect, and whether my consultant agrees that I am responding to treatment.

Whereas I have no qualms about the morality of my licence being revoked, it sticks in the craw rather that even suffering from this condition, my driving is a bloody sight better that a lot of the totally unsuitable bastards I see hurtling around in metal boxes.

Fuckity-fuck.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 13 July, 2018, 08:24:23 pm
The good news is that I have another mask to play with - one that will not be interfered with by Beard. Nose-hairs must, however, be trimmed.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Butterfly on 13 July, 2018, 08:57:33 pm
Oh that's a pain Wowbagger!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 14 July, 2018, 09:04:56 am
My problem is that I am too honest for my own bloody good sometimes.

That cup of tea incident last weekend really put the wind up me and I felt I couldn't possibly answer that my condition was under control. I should have given myself a bit of time to see how things transpired. Last night, however, with the nasal mask, I achieved a perfect score of 100 on the company's website. The mask fit score was 20/20. It was an excellent night's sleep and I feel much more refreshed this morning.

I have the right of appeal against the DVLA's decision through my local magistrates' court, which I intend to do. This is new evidence.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 18 July, 2018, 09:44:31 am
The best night so far...

8 hours 28 minutes wearing the mask. Some mornings I have been "marking time" just to get to 7 hours on the machine for the highest possible nightly score. Not last night: I slept almost all of those hours and only had 2.2 events per hour - the second lowest total.

Now - here is a fascinating question. Why is it that I am not needing to get up for a wee in the middle of the night when I am on this machine? We were told that this would be the case, but I can't get my head round it. I would have thought that in deep sleep the kidneys would be clearing out the grot as fast as ever.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 18 July, 2018, 10:39:04 am
Needing a wee is highly subjective IME, vis not only the consumption of certain pharmaceuticals which suppress the urge dramatically, but whether you're sufficiently distracted by being asleep, sitting an exam, being prodded with an ultrasound scanner, desperately trying to keep up with the Germans in a silly bike race, or whatever.  Conversely, the sound of rain on canvas when it's a decent trek to the bogs has the opposite effect.  It's certainly not a simple function of bladder volume.

I think it's like anything else that bothers you disproportionately when you're failing to sleep (noise, light, uncomfortable bed, pain, beastie bites, existential dread, whatever) but isn't actually a problem if you do manage to conk out.  You sleep through, the bladder does actually have enough capacity for the whole night (bear in mind that unless you're on a drip there's no new input of water to your system while you're asleep, so the kidneys will remove less as the night goes on), and you wake up needing the loo as normal.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: teethgrinder on 18 July, 2018, 11:03:32 am
Now - here is a fascinating question. Why is it that I am not needing to get up for a wee in the middle of the night when I am on this machine? We were told that this would be the case, but I can't get my head round it. I would have thought that in deep sleep the kidneys would be clearing out the grot as fast as ever.

You only pee when you're awake. Before you started using the CPAP, you were frequently waking up enough that you needed a pee. Now that you're sleeping much better, you're not waking up so much, if at all. Waking up in the night for a pee can be a sign that you have sleep apnoea.

In time, you might start sleeping for fewer hours each night as well, once you catch up on what must be a very big sleep deficit.



I've just started trying mouth taping a few days ago. Literally taping my mouth shut with medical tape so that I breathe through my nose when I sleep. Plus I'm still using my nose vents.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 18 July, 2018, 12:02:14 pm
@Kim - we were told that the kidneys actually partially close down in deep sleep. I have definitely noticed a smaller volume when I have woken up. Given what I have learned through Dez's tribulations over the years, it sounds very counter-intuitive. I asked the guy to explain why it was that the kidneys produced less and unless I dramatically misheard him, he said that the kidneys were muscles that need as much rest as any other muscle, or words to that effect. I didn't want to ask a supplementary as otherwise it turns into an argument, but that just doesn't sound right to me.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 18 July, 2018, 12:13:14 pm
IANA physiologist, but presumably that's all part of the shift in balance from the usual waking functions to things like digestion and cell growth.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 18 July, 2018, 01:41:52 pm
The body (usually1) secretes antidiuretic hormone when you sleep reducing urine production.

This hormone is sometimes supplied as a nasal spray for kids with a bedwetting problem.

1) I am aware that injury and illness mean not all those here do.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 18 July, 2018, 04:32:29 pm
helly is right.

in addition you only need a pee because the message reaches your brain with enough urgency to rouse you from sleep.

If you are in light sleep and waking regularly even a low grade signal will push you into wakefulness and up you get.  Conversely in deep sleep the signal has to get to fire alarm status before you wake. Some legal intoxicants obtund the brain even further leading to episodes of bed wetting at university and in early adult life.

The system involved I believe is the Ascending reticular activating system to the best of my memory but the CNS is a dark art.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 18 July, 2018, 08:48:00 pm
Also, if I wake, I think 'I might as well get up for a pee' no matter how long it might have been since my last visit.

Speaking for myself, using the bathroom is one of things I do if I'm not sleeping for any reason. Sometimes the change of scene/posture helps me settle.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 18 July, 2018, 08:50:49 pm
Also, if I wake, I think 'I might as well get up for a pee' no matter how long it might have been since my last visit.

Exactly.  If nothing else, it means that whatever's then stopping your from sleeping, it won't be your bladder.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 18 July, 2018, 08:53:34 pm
Also, if I wake, I think 'I might as well get up for a pee' no matter how long it might have been since my last visit.

Exactly.  If nothing else, it means that whatever's then stopping your from sleeping, it won't be your bladder.

Indeed!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 18 July, 2018, 10:51:27 pm
Successful CPAP treatment means you will be having long periods of R.E.M. sleep and during that period your body is paralysed to stop you acting out dreams.   It’s this stage of sleep where the real rest and healing happens which is why lack of it is so harmful.  Sleep apnea patients left untreated have virtually no R.E.M. and consequently needing a pee often during the night is a very good signal of appneas occurring.   
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 19 July, 2018, 11:50:02 pm
I have a ticket for the "sleeper" to Scotland on Monday. I am told that there are no 3-pin plugs in the cabins. Apparently the new rolling stock, being introduced in October, has some.

I will just have to have a night without my machine.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Valiant on 20 July, 2018, 01:07:48 am
You can get travel and 12v machines :) The Dreamstation Go is one and has changeable batteries.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 30 July, 2018, 06:52:52 pm
I have just been awarded a "GOLD" badge for use of my CPAP machine. That is awarded to people who complete at least 21 nights of 6 hours or more in a 30 day period. I did that in 23 days. The two nights that were less than 6 hours were the 5 hour 24 minute night which was the last night with the full-face mask, when I got totally fed up with it, and last Monday night when I was on the sleeper to Edinburgh and had no electricity supply available.

Something has slowly dawned on me. For years now I haven't read a book all the way through - or if I have I can't remember it. I think the reason is that I have been reading a couple of pages, falling asleep, re-reading those pages, falling asleep, getting fed up and not finishing the book. Today, on the Edinburgh to London train, I read about 100 pages of a book I started about 3 weeks ago. I didn't fall asleep once, despite my wine glass being refilled 5 times!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 30 July, 2018, 07:16:11 pm
Congratulations.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: citoyen on 30 July, 2018, 07:24:58 pm
Great news, Wowbagger. I think I’m going to have to get myself one of these CPAP machines.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 August, 2018, 06:56:39 pm
Last night was my 7th consecutive with a 100% score.

I get up to 70 for time on the machine ((10 marks per hour, maximum 7 hours), 20 for mask seal, 5 for the number of apnoea and hypopnaea evens per hour (apparently it is normal to have up to 5 events per hour) and 5 for keeping my mask on (I am allowed to take it off twice in a night before I start to lose marks). My events per hour are mostly well below 5: in the 29 days since I started using the nasal mask, there have ben 8 nights when my events per hour exceeded 4. Only once have I exceeded 6 in that time. That's in comparison to the last night with the full face mask when I suffered more than 17 events per hour.

My consultant is back from holiday on 13th. I will work on getting my driving licence back.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 13 August, 2018, 10:15:33 am
Quintuple fuck!

I spoke to a hospital person just now. It seems that I was down for an appointment for 18th October, which would have been the earliest that I could have got my licence back. It seems that under DVLA regulations there has to be a minimum period of treatment before they will reissue a driving licence. I have managed to reschedule that appointment to 20th September, but that is the earliest that I can reapply.

What a monumental pain in the arse!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 14 September, 2018, 09:15:30 pm
One unforeseen (although it probably shouldn't have been) byproduct of having my licence revoked is that when we renewed our insurance, of course I couldn't be on it, not having a driving licence. My dear wife had to be the named driver. I thought (silly me) it would be a trivial matter, since LV sent me a marginally increased quote on last year's figure, that we would continue with them. I was assured that my NCD would be transferable to Janet. When push came to shove, their quote with Jan as the named driver was about £160 more than for me. We then decided to shop around and did so vie the website of moneysavingexpert. This lead to a quote from Privilege of slightly less than LV had originally quoted and, curiously, one from LV not that far from the quote I had initially been given. We decided to change to Privilege, given that LV had categorically assured me that my NCD had been transferred to Jan.

When we were in Vienna last week I received an email form Privilege asking for evidence of the NCD. After an online chat, we deferred providing proof until we arrived home, so we set about doing so this afternoon. LV denied having transferred the NCD, despite the fact that I triple-checked that the woman had done so. In the end Privilege got in touch with them and LV said they had no record of having had a customer of my name and address, despite only an hour or so earlier having sent me confirmation of NCD.

Very unimpressed with LV over this whole episode.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 20 September, 2018, 01:36:18 pm
Octuple fuck!

Arrived for my 11am appointment this morning to be told it was 10.15. No letter, not text, just the phone call. "We don't always send texts if the oppointment was arranged at the last minute." As can be seen from my last but one post, it was arranged on 13th August. That's more than 5 weeks ago.

I now have an appointment for 1pm Monday. Rather than put Jan through the hassle and stress of driving there and the delay that is inevitable at hospital multi-storey car parks. I shall take my bike on the train.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 20 September, 2018, 02:12:00 pm
How the hell do they expect you to know they rescheduled? This is really poor!
Awful they didn't just squeeze you in at the end of today's clinic.

What a waste!

Suspect you'll be listed asa DNA no show, even though it was their doing!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 20 September, 2018, 07:34:05 pm
I suspect that the woman I spoke to on Aug 13th just read off the wrong time from her screen. But why there was no written communication I really don't know.
I intended to phone them yesterday to confirm the time but I had a day running around for Phyllis, who needed some antibiotics picked up form the doc/pharmacy and a urine sample to be taken to the hospital. it just slipped my mind.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 20 September, 2018, 07:53:35 pm
I get reminder texts from Queen Square and NPH a few days before my appointments.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 24 September, 2018, 09:34:51 am
Still no text message but I phoned to check and have had it confirmed that my appointment is at 1pm. My good pal Jon is giving me a lift there.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 24 September, 2018, 05:26:04 pm
Back with a clean bill of health, FAGVO. I have just posted my driving licence application to DVLA. Despite the fact that my licence was last updated in 1994 when we moved to this house, and this new licence will be my first to bear my photo, there was no charge. This surprised me.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Canardly on 24 September, 2018, 05:36:21 pm
Good news.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 25 September, 2018, 07:19:07 am
excellent
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 03 October, 2018, 10:57:22 am
Still waiting for the driving licence...

When I was at my hospital appointment last week I asked about a symptom which has developed since I have been on the CPAP machine. Every so often I feel an unpleasant burning sensation in my throat and upper chest. Of course, it could be totally unrelated to using the machine, but if it is then it's very coincidental. The nurses I spoke to looked at me blankly and suggested that if it happens again I should consult my GP.

I reckon it has happened about once a week and a couple of times has been so unpleasant that I have had to stop (on both of those occasions I was walking at the time, once up Howarth high street, the second, last week, between Baker Street and Marylebone stations) and concentrate on the pain. I quite often have a somewhat bloated sensation, which I attribute to my thoracic muscles having to work harder to exhale when wearing the machine.

I had a doc's appointment this morning. He thinks it's unlikely to be cardiovascular as I get quite a bit of exercise. He's given me omeprazole tablets and arranged for an ECG.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 03 October, 2018, 01:32:49 pm
as someone who has not done upper GI for years, it could be reflux.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 03 October, 2018, 01:42:45 pm
as someone who has not done upper GI for years, it could be reflux.

Me neither but I'd concur...
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 04 October, 2018, 10:59:13 pm
I think that this was his thinking. Is it possible that the extra pressure and volume of my lungs is actually squeezing my stomach and forcing small quantities of semi-digested food/acid up? The machine definitely leaves me feeling "stretched" and bloated. The pressure must be pretty high to keep me inflated like this.

My nightly results seem to be improving. Only once in the past 30 days have I had more than 3 events per hour overnight, and that was 30 days ago so that will drop off the graph tomorrow. All of the past fortnight have been below 2 events per hour, and 4 nights of the last week have been below 1 per hour.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 05 October, 2018, 08:18:43 pm
I would have thought some of this air is going down the gullet into the stomach, rather than the windpipe & lungs so you're 'swallowing' air and the resultant belch comes mixed with stomach acid. This would burn the base of the gullet, possibly painfully.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 06 October, 2018, 04:00:24 pm
If you Google CPAP and GERD you do get a fair few hits.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 October, 2018, 03:13:07 pm
Given that it will be 3 weeks on Monday since I sent my application off, and that I hadn't heard anything, I phoned DVLA just now. They didn't give anything away - specifically I asked whether they had heard from my consultant. Whereas the woman I spoke to didn't answer that question directly, she did say that "everything was now in place for a decision to be made". I sincerely hope that this isn't going to drag on any longer. Jan really doesn't like driving.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 17 October, 2018, 11:55:14 pm
A follow-up from the ECG. Went to doc's this a.m. He reckoned the ECG was OK. We discussed the burning sensation and I described that I sometimed feel "stretched". I'm not belching after being on the machine so I'm doubtful about that. Also, burning the base of the gullet would surely give some sort of indication when swallowing? Swallowing is fine. No pain at all.

He said that the NHS takes all chest pain very seriously and if it happened again, to go to A & E. I suggested that, since my apnoea scores are now quite low (I rarely get a night when it's >3 per hour. Haven't had a 4 for weeks. Last night's was 0.3, the lowest yet) it might be worth getting Basildon hospital to turn down the maximum pressure on mu machine, which is currently set at 20 litres per second.

5.30 this evening it started again...

I've just got back from A & E. BP a bit high but not massively so. 2 ECGs, one of which showed an abnormality on one beat, the second was normal. 2 blood tests. I understand they are testing for the level of troponin. According to the doc, they are looking for a level >14 which indicates the possibility of a heart attack. Mine was 6. 2nd blood test was done, but I came home on the understanding that I would go back if it dramatically changed. I haven't been phoned.

I'm going to hear from some other dept which I think does exciting things like link me up to all sorts of gubbinses and them make me ride an exercise bike. I'll try and do 200k at WARTY speed...

All in all, a very satisfactory result, but I wish I wasn't getting the pains. The staff were excellent, as ever, although I would take issue with one of the doctors I saw who stated categorically that "chest pains aren't a side effect of CPAP machine use." I'd be OK with "There's no scientifically proven link between..."
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 27 October, 2018, 07:20:44 pm
Developments.

The good news is that the consultant has signed another form (the first went into a black hole somewhere between Basildon and Swansea) and will send it to me. I have asked DVLA to send me another set of forms to fill in (why they don't keep the last lot on file for more than a fortnight is beyond me...) and when I have them all under control I will send off another application. I might get my licence back by the end of November...

After last week's A & E trip, I had an appointment at the chest clinic for another ECG. A specialist heart doctor diagnosed the following abnormalities just by looking at my ECG:

left anterior fascicular block
first degree AV block

It seems that these abnormalities are not that abnormal and you can carry on without any obvious ill effects. They are to do with the nerves sending signals to the heart rather than the veins/arteries being blocked. He was impressed that I had been out for a 14 mile walk in the not-flat bit of Kent the previous day. I will be given an appointment for an MRI scan and ultrasound treatment to check the bits of my cardiovascular system that other investigations cannot reach.

Regarding the chest pains, I cycled to Waitrose today, the first properly cold day of the autumn. My lungs were burning from the cold air in a manner that I have never experienced before. The longer this goes on, the more convinced I am that it's down to the CPAP machine stretching or desiccating tissue. Whereas I was aiming for 100% or as close as possible every night, I am now adopting a policy of taking the mask off and going back to sleep without it as soon as I reach 6 hours on the machine - to try to reduce the side-effects - which medics tell me don't exist. In order to comply with the consultant's/DVLA's requirements, I have to keep up at least 5 hours a night. I don't think it's desiccation as I have the humidifier set to quite a high level. I'm inhaling at least a quarter of a pint of water each night.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: ElyDave on 27 October, 2018, 08:12:26 pm
Good luck WB.

In my case, not sleeping well at the moment, generally restless, abusing caffiene and too many things on my mind.

Need to effectively exhaust myself to be able to sleep.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 10 November, 2018, 06:58:18 pm
I've been told that an excellent sleeping draught can be made by boiling a whole banana (or maybe just the skin) for 40 minutes then drinking the water. Apparently the skin contains tryptophan, which helps you sleep by promoting serotonin production.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: ElyDave on 10 November, 2018, 08:16:24 pm
I'm finding a combination of co-codamol and red wine is helping until about 3AM when the co-codamol wears off, I turn over in my sleep and get a shooting pain through my pelvis/left hip. 

That and the pain through the day are leaving me somewhat drained.  I've told my boss no more than 50% from me next week
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 03 May, 2019, 12:37:43 pm
I have just phoned the sleep clinic at Basildon hospital. I have requested an appointment as I believe that my weight loss over the past 7 months (a little over 3 stone) means that I no longer suffer from sleep apnoea. Jan has said that she hasn't heard me snore for ages. I haven't fallen asleep in front of my computer for a long time. I even read books without nodding off part way through.

I have been promised a call next week with an appointment.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 08 September, 2019, 07:11:38 pm
Well, the appointment in May materialised, but I wasn't discharged. However, a few weeks ago I wrote to the consultant (writing and posting a letter was much quicker than trying to get through on the hospital's not-fit-for-purpose telephone system) and I have now had a letter discharging me from the sleep clinic and asking me to return the machine! Whoop whoop!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: hellymedic on 08 September, 2019, 07:41:42 pm
Excellent news!
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: citoyen on 09 September, 2019, 08:05:18 am
I believe that my weight loss over the past 7 months (a little over 3 stone) means that I no longer suffer from sleep apnoea. Jan has said that she hasn't heard me snore for ages.

This is no surprise to me at all. I had exactly the same thing around six years ago, when I lost around 14kg - the snoring stopped completely, I was waking in the morning feeling refreshed and ready to go.

Unfortunately, for various reasons, I've put the weight back on in the last few years and the snoring has become a problem again. I recognise the signs of apnea when I wake up in the morning - it's not just tiredness, it's a foggy feeling in the head, often a headache too. Luckily it's not so bad that I fall asleep during the day. The good thing is that I know the solution, but the bad thing is that the apnea affects your ability to function properly and implement the lifestyle changes required to achieve that solution. A classic vicious circle.

This, I think, is where a CPAP machine can help - when you're getting better sleep, you will feel generally more able to cope with life and will make better decisions relating to your health. I imagine having the machine has played a large part in you losing that three stone.

Glad to hear you're now enjoying good quality, machine-free sleep, that's excellent news.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 09 September, 2019, 04:57:43 pm
For the past couple of months I have put the mask on when I get to bed but wake up an hour or two later. I then find I can't get to sleep when wearing the mask, but can without it.

One thing I want to do is institute earlier bed times, but my dear wife often stays up later than I want to. We share a bed and I don't want her coming in a couple of hours int my sleep and gallumphing about. Persuading her to finish her crochet/knitting/spinning/ watching-an-ancient-episode-of-Morse can be quite irksome.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Ham on 10 October, 2019, 06:57:08 am
If Bouncing The Bed is the issue, consider investing in a Tempur mattress, honestly may be the acquisition you  will ever make, it certainly was chez Ham Hall. Movement does not transfer at all from one side to the other.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 October, 2019, 09:22:12 pm
We bought a new and very expensive memory foam mattress relatively recently. I don't think we can afford to change again so soon.

To be honest, it's not the gallumphing on the bed which tends to disturb me. It's when she comes into the room. Normally Jan doesn't even turn the light on. But I know she's there.
Title: Re: Sleep
Post by: Kim on 11 October, 2019, 12:14:44 pm
I have a similar problem.  The bed itself decouples bouncing fairly well, walking into the frame less so.  But before the bed becomes involved my ability to ignore known sounds stops at "what's barakta crashing and banging now?".  Like most deaf people, she's worse if she tries to be quiet.

None of which matters if I'm properly asleep, but if getting a decent night's sleep is important you can guarantee I won't be.

Getting barakta to come to bed early if she's not sleepy is an own goal.  She'll just wriggle or try to read surreptitiously[1] or something.  I tend to request that she either comes to bed at the same time as me, or stays up with a minimum of noise and smells for at least a couple of hours to give me a decent chance to be properly asleep.




[1] The clicking of the page turn button is particularly irritating.  Period of a few seconds, but not consistently so.  It's right up there with ears that click, throb or squelch when you breathe.