Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: The Family Cyclist on 26 April, 2021, 08:04:33 am

Title: Pavement parking issue
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 26 April, 2021, 08:04:33 am
Can anyone suggest a good way forward. A rented property in our road has one of the cars parked so the back completely blocks the footpath and when I say completely its overhanging into the road

I realise I could knock and ask them not to but judging by the state of their drive I'm not imagining they're going to be receptive.

From my Google search pavement parking isn't illegal but does that change when the path is completely blocked and who do I contact?
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Jurek on 26 April, 2021, 08:35:35 am
Blender.
Prawns.
Blend.
Empty the contents of the blender into the vents at the base of the windscreen.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: rogerzilla on 26 April, 2021, 08:45:34 am
I think the traditional method is to squeeze past the car wearing clothes or accessories festooned with excessive buckles and studs.  Or to post a picture on YPLAC.  It's the British pass-agg way.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: cuddy duck on 26 April, 2021, 09:34:37 am
Let Michael guide you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbuxuXwhJqM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbuxuXwhJqM)

Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 09:39:52 am
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 26 April, 2021, 09:50:45 am
Milder than Michael, make your own yellow line: https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2021-04-22/annoyed-residents-use-makeshift-double-yellow-lines-to-shame-bad-parkers-in-bristol
Or parking tickets: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/fed-up-residents-now-handing-5334077.amp

And in general: https://www.bristol247.com/opinion/your-say/it-is-cars-parking-on-pavements-that-we-should-worry-about-not-e-scooters/

However, I don't see any of these as solutions to a problem with an identifiable individual who you have to live next door to.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 09:56:53 am
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Cant agree with you. Sometimes its the lessor of two evils. Our village has narrow roads and sometimes people park half on the pavement as unless they did there wouldn't be room for tractors or ambulances etc to pass. Mind half the village has no pavements and quite a lot of where there are pavements the houses have steps to the from door that actually cross the pavement so even if there was no pavement parking you would always be walking into the road anyway.  There is no car park and some cottages have no drives, they are terraced straight on to the road. And don't say then they should use public transport, all the time I have lived here (25 years) there has been one bus a week and that's it. A three mile walk with no pavement at all to the next bus stop with a regular service (once an hour).
I do agree that if there are drives or car parking spaces then there is no excuse not to use them but blanket bans seem inappropriate.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 10:01:54 am
Sorry, no. It's not about cars or not.

Sort out your parking so you can do it in a legal way, if that involves paying to put in proper parking, then that's what it takes. There is never any excuse to block a public pavement and force pedestrians into the road.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 10:05:07 am
Sorry, no. It's not about cars or not.

Sort out your parking so you can do it in a legal way, if that involves paying to put in proper parking, then that's what it takes. There is never any excuse to block a public pavement and force pedestrians into the road.

How do you propose someone would do that when the nearest car park is 5 miles away ?
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: grams on 26 April, 2021, 10:43:56 am
Buy some land and tarmac it.

Japan doesn't even have on-street parking. The idea we superior Brits need to park on the pavement is just gross.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 10:47:00 am
I have no idea, but it's not my problem, it's the owners of the cars' problem. I can't believe your entire village has no space suitable for car parking and you have to block the pavement.

Really, we have to manage parking like anything else, it's a finite resource and it's not acceptable to leave vehicles where they will be a hazard and hindrance. It can't be acceptable to simply leave your car on the pavement because you've invented a justification (it's the same around here, we all have more cars than space, and the constant bleat 'but there's nowhere else to park').
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 26 April, 2021, 10:54:50 am
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

I'm not sure it is police. If you can confirm I'm wrong I'll report to them but from what I can find out it's only a police matter if your blocked on your own drive

Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Davef on 26 April, 2021, 10:59:09 am
In London it is an offence to park on the pavement but not elsewhere.

Parking vehicles is a compromise in what you obstruct.

One day we will have autonomous on demand appropriately sized vehicles. The appropriate size in a densely populated city is probably bus sized, but in a low density rural or semi rural area it is probably car sized. There is no point in a 50 seater bus with 1 person on board.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Davef on 26 April, 2021, 11:02:43 am
... and it is a criminal offence to wilfully obstruct free passage on the highway and would be a police matter.

Someone parking in your drive is not the highway and would be a civil matter.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 11:03:56 am
Buy some land and tarmac it.

Right. Persuade someone to sell you a field - difficult enough the apply for change of use from agricultural land then apply for planning to tarmac it. Not going to get passed the council. No development permitted outside the current village perimeter. It took us 10 years to get someone to sell us enough land for small children's play ground and the land we got wasn't adjacent to the village.

Since walking around the village means you will have to walk in the road anyway as there are not pavements everywhere and as I said some house steps extend into or right over the pavement there is I really cant see what difference a bit of pavement parking makes. The road I live on is maybe 200 yards long and has about 20 yards of pavement, for all of the rest of it your walking in the road or you ain't getting there.

I think what I am trying to say here is that in rural areas there is different expectancy regarding pavements. In rural areas you don't have any expectation that you can walk between point A and point B on a pavement as there simply won't be one or it will be blocked by a building or part thereof sticking out into it so a bit of pavement parking hardly makes any substantive difference. Much more annoying is people parking on corners or in the passing paces in the single track roads.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 26 April, 2021, 11:04:24 am
Thanks. Just to clarify as tone can't be picked up on a forum I wasn't being an arse questioning ian just wanted to make sure

I'll get some pictures and send them to the boys in blue
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 11:05:34 am
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

I'm not sure it is police. If you can confirm I'm wrong I'll report to them but from what I can find out it's only a police matter if your blocked on your own drive

If it's the following:

Quote from: The Police
  • a blocked driveway and you need to get out now
  • someone blocking the pavement, grass verge or cycle lane (please note not all cycle lanes are enforceable)
  • dangerous parking on bend or junction

then it's a police matter.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 11:08:55 am
Buy some land and tarmac it.

Right. Persuade someone to sell you a field - difficult enough the apply for change of use from agricultural land then apply for planning to tarmac it. Not going to get passed the council. No development permitted outside the current village perimiter. It took us 10 years to get someone to sell us enough land for small children's play ground and the land we got wasn't adjacent to the village.

That's the deal though, you live there and you want to own more cars than there is currently available parking.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: grams on 26 April, 2021, 11:20:14 am
I think what I am trying to say here is that in rural areas there is different expectancy regarding pavements. In rural areas you don't have any expectation that you can walk between point A and point B on a pavement

I grew up in a rural village where we had pavements and nobody parked on them. There's a free car park in the middle of the village.

Poking around Street View it has many many double yellow lines, which presumably means many decades ago someone at Somerset County Council was on the ball enough to install them before people filled every inch of space with cars as they apparently have everywhere else. I wonder if there was uproar at the time.

I'm sorry you live somewhere shit, but please don't think that shitness is inevitable.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Jurek on 26 April, 2021, 11:28:09 am
Parking in Forest Hill.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51140704035_30b9f2cb05_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kV8tAt) (https://flic.kr/p/2kV8tAt)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurekb/)
This road isn't even narrow.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4333278,-0.0419206,3a,75y,138.82h,78.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUsq8Iq2MBoRHEz-vrPSWYQ!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
The Mini is parked next to where the 'B' of Bus Stop is painted in the road.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: De Sisti on 26 April, 2021, 11:33:27 am
I wonder if that Mini will get keyed if it continues parking like that?
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Mr Larrington on 26 April, 2021, 11:33:41 am
In London it is an offence to park on the pavement but not elsewhere.

A law which is frequently overridden by local councils.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 11:35:18 am
If I ran out of space in my house, I think most people would think it out of order if I opted to store my excess possessions on the pavement or built a shed on any available public space nearby. I'd hazard I'd soon receive a visit from the authorities and I don't think I'd be getting much sympathy from my neighbours, even if I legitimately claimed 'there's nowhere else for me to put it.'

Unless it's a motor vehicle where at some point it's become OK to do precisely that.

I'd agree that councils need to do a better job but that doesn't absolve vehicle owners of the ultimate responsibility for their possession.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Lightning Phil on 26 April, 2021, 11:38:25 am
I wonder if that Mini will get keyed if it continues parking like that?

Just my thought
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Jurek on 26 April, 2021, 11:40:15 am
I wonder if that Mini will get keyed if it continues parking like that?

Just my thought
Don't think that it hasn't crossed my mind.....
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 11:40:37 am
I grew up in a rural village where we had pavements and nobody parked on them. There's a free car park in the middle of the village.

Poking around Street View it has many many double yellow lines, which presumably means many decades ago someone at Somerset County Council was on the ball enough to install them before people filled every inch of space with cars as they apparently have everywhere else. I wonder if there was uproar at the time.

I'm sorry you live somewhere shit, but please don't think that shitness is inevitable.

It's not shit its lovely with a great sense of community. It is however very small. There are no white lines or any road markings at all and only street lighting in one small area of the village .
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 11:46:22 am
So, what happens if someone in that community is blind, or in a wheelchair, or simply needs to push a pram from a to b?
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Kim on 26 April, 2021, 11:54:03 am
So, what happens if someone in that community is blind, or in a wheelchair, or simply needs to push a pram from a to b?

They should use a car, obviously.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: DuncanM on 26 April, 2021, 11:57:07 am
Alternatively councils can encourage shit parking:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.740543,-1.233754,3a,75y,101.69h,66.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syPWHltd7KYHO_yeD6fsLhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It sounds like the OP is referring to the case where someone is parked on their driveway in such a way that the back half of their car is blocking the pavement. I'm guessing is they are told not to do that then they will park half on the road and half on the pavement in a way that irritates everyone here (unless there are double yellows).
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 12:09:20 pm
So, what happens if someone in that community is blind, or in a wheelchair, or simply needs to push a pram from a to b?
They have to walk in the road EVEN IF THERE WAS NO PAVEMENT PARKING AT ALL that's the point.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 12:11:52 pm
I don't understand you then. You're parking on non-existent pavements?
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 12:16:50 pm
I don't understand you then. You're parking on non-existent pavements?

I'll try again. There isn't continuous pavement in the village. For example my lane is about 200 yards long with only one 20 yard section that has pavement. Leaving my house there is no pavement I have to walk in the road. What difference does it make if someone pavement parks on that one 20 yard section?
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 12:21:30 pm
Also things like this where there is pavement:

(https://user.fm/files/v2-67910634d25d641df0e59e9ed9cd870b/steps.jpg)

That's been there since seventeen hundred and odd. Forces you into the road.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: grams on 26 April, 2021, 12:49:50 pm
The thing is if you make it anything other than a national blanket ban you leave it up to tinpot local councillors to decide and none of them have the cojones for that fight.

If it means rules get imposed on the tiny minority who live in shi rural idylls where there’s nothing worth walking to anyway, then so be it.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: rogerzilla on 26 April, 2021, 01:15:33 pm
Houses without off-street, or at least designated, parking should cost a lot less.  Paying £150 in "road tax" shouldn't entitle you to occupy 15 square metres of public tarmac outside your house, nearly all of the time.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: pcolbeck on 26 April, 2021, 01:15:44 pm
The thing is if you make it anything other than a national blanket ban you leave it up to tinpot local councillors to decide and none of them have the cojones for that fight.

That is a fair point.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 01:17:33 pm
Also things like this where there is pavement:

(https://user.fm/files/v2-67910634d25d641df0e59e9ed9cd870b/steps.jpg)

That's been there since seventeen hundred and odd. Forces you into the road.

I think in the 17th century, you were less likely to counter a 3.5-tonne vehicle moving at a significant speed down that road and it's unlikely anyone would have been trundling along the pavement in a wheelchair. There are easy adjustments to the pavement there and really, it's 2021, we should be making adjustments rather than just saying oh but it's old.

The problem with relying on discretion is that every driver has their justification why they should be allowed to park. Come on, we've all heard them: they've nowhere else to park, it's the council's fault, they're only there for a short while, people can squeeze by, there are no disabled people in the area, the locals don't mind, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: nobby on 26 April, 2021, 01:19:11 pm
I believe that parking on the pavement is an obstruction and is dealt with by the council.
It was to have become a police responsibility some years ago but, as far as I know, that has not happened.
My council has an app and parking/parked vehicle causing an obstruction is a heading in the app. I've used it a few times over the years for cars parked as you describe and the council always report back that they have dealt with the car owner.
Contacting your local councillor may be useful.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 01:25:42 pm
Obstruction is a police issue, I copied and pasted from Surrey's finest above.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Davef on 26 April, 2021, 01:59:52 pm
Obstruction is a police issue, I copied and pasted from Surrey's finest above.
Obstruction by vehicles is a police matter.

Other obstruction of the highway, for example by very old steps, is dealt with by the highway authority.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 02:03:57 pm
Yeahbut the question was about a car obstructing the pavement, which is a police matter (parking on the pavement is a council issue, blocking the pavement is police).
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: rogerzilla on 26 April, 2021, 02:12:30 pm
What's the definition of "blocked"?  Is there one?
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Regulator on 26 April, 2021, 02:40:14 pm
Can anyone suggest a good way forward. A rented property in our road has one of the cars parked so the back completely blocks the footpath and when I say completely its overhanging into the road

I realise I could knock and ask them not to but judging by the state of their drive I'm not imagining they're going to be receptive.

From my Google search pavement parking isn't illegal but does that change when the path is completely blocked and who do I contact?


With a bit of luck, not for much longer.   Pavement parking is illegal in London (except where expressly permitted) and the government have said they're considering extending that to the whole of England and Wales, using their current emergency powers.  The usual suspects are up in arms about the proposals...
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Regulator on 26 April, 2021, 02:42:19 pm
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: rafletcher on 26 April, 2021, 02:47:30 pm
I'm not sure that's correct - this from our county council website..

"It may be a criminal offence for causing an obstruction or damage and would be a matter for the police.

Section 28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - wilfully causing an obstruction to any public footpath or public thoroughfare."

So I'd read that as parking to obstruct the footway is a Police matter.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: grams on 26 April, 2021, 02:58:56 pm
Yes, blocking the pavement is already an offence. Whether you can persuade a local constable to do anything about it is another matter.

With a bit of luck, not for much longer.   Pavement parking is illegal in London (except where expressly permitted) and the government have said they're considering extending that to the whole of England and Wales, using their current emergency powers.  The usual suspects are up in arms about the proposals...

It's a devolved matter in Wales and they're working on it. I'm not aware of any relevant emergency powers in England. There was a consultation in 2020 on a possible full ban though.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 26 April, 2021, 03:02:29 pm
I think we have probably worked out the guidance is almost as clear as some of the covid stuff

I've contacted local councillors who with local elections looming will either ignore as too busy or jump on to try and impress me

Thank for everyone's help on this. Oh and ironically where I go in Germany there is absolutely no pavement parking and you need to have a permit for most the spaces
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Davef on 26 April, 2021, 03:03:00 pm
I believe it has to actually cause an obstruction. If you could not get past a parked car in your wheelchair you could report it to the police and the vehicles driver might well be prosecuted. I don’t believe if you reported to the police that a hypothetical wheelchair user could not get past it would result in a prosecution.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 03:08:11 pm
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).

Seriously, I didn't make it up, I copied and pasted it from Surrey Police (who aren't in London). And more so, when I dibbed the driver who parked on the corner opposite my house, the police spoke to the registered owner (him) and when he ignored them, issued him a fine and three points. I know this because I made them a cup of tea and they told me.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Peter on 26 April, 2021, 03:13:58 pm
Ian, do you think they'd give him six points for two cups of tea?  Might be worth a try!
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 26 April, 2021, 03:29:49 pm
I think he'd failed the attitude test so comprehensively they'd have given him as many points as possible. Plus it was an obviously stupid place to park (corner of a narrow lane junction, atop a 25% hill, blocking the entire pavement and forcing pedestrians to walk and drivers to drive around an entirely blind corner). Now has double-yellows (a process that took three years).
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Regulator on 26 April, 2021, 03:30:27 pm
I'm not sure that's correct - this from our county council website..

"It may be a criminal offence for causing an obstruction or damage and would be a matter for the police.

Section 28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - wilfully causing an obstruction to any public footpath or public thoroughfare."

So I'd read that as parking to obstruct the footway is a Police matter.


The only parts of s.28 of the 1847 Act still in force are in relation to dogs:

Quote
Every person who suffers to be at large any unmuzzled ferocious dog, or sets on or urges any dog or other animal to attack, worry, or put in fear any person or animal:

and 'riding/driving furiously':

Quote
Every person who rides or drives furiously any horse or carriage, or drives furiously any cattle:

The rest have been done away with over the years, much of it (including the bit about obstructing pavements) via the Deregulation Act 2015*.   Lots of council web-sites quote out of date legislation (including our local District Council) I'm afraid.


I think we have probably worked out the guidance is almost as clear as some of the covid stuff

I've contacted local councillors who with local elections looming will either ignore as too busy or jump on to try and impress me

Thank for everyone's help on this. Oh and ironically where I go in Germany there is absolutely no pavement parking and you need to have a permit for most the spaces


As a councillor, I know parking is one of the most complained about things - and it's the thing we can do the least about.  Even where police do have powers (e.g. under s.5 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005) they are often reluctant to do anything as they don't see it as a priority.

We've tried to wrest parking enforcement from the police in South Cambridgeshire but they won't hand it over (the city council had better luck) - nor will they enforce it.




*Another of Pig-Botherer Cameron's jolly wheezes, described as "An Act to make provision for the reduction of burdens resulting from legislation for businesses or other organisations or for individuals; make provision for the repeal of legislation which no longer has practical use; make provision about the exercise of regulatory functions; and for connected purposes".
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: De Sisti on 26 April, 2021, 04:32:50 pm
Ian, do you think they'd give him six points for two cups of tea?  Might be worth a try!
:-D
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Mr Larrington on 26 April, 2021, 06:15:24 pm
Ian, do you think they'd give him six points for two cups of tea?  Might be worth a try!

Give the bizzies a bottle of Scotch and they'd probably do him for witchcraft :demon:
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Davef on 26 April, 2021, 10:00:26 pm
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).

Seriously, I didn't make it up, I copied and pasted it from Surrey Police (who aren't in London). And more so, when I dibbed the driver who parked on the corner opposite my house, the police spoke to the registered owner (him) and when he ignored them, issued him a fine and three points. I know this because I made them a cup of tea and they told me.
I suspect it was “leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place” rather than (or in addition to) wilful or unreasonable obstruction.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: barakta on 26 April, 2021, 10:37:11 pm
I'm not sure that's correct - this from our county council website..

"It may be a criminal offence for causing an obstruction or damage and would be a matter for the police.

Section 28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - wilfully causing an obstruction to any public footpath or public thoroughfare."

So I'd read that as parking to obstruct the footway is a Police matter.


The only parts of s.28 of the 1847 Act still in force are in relation to dogs:
<snippy snip>

The rest have been done away with over the years, much of it (including the bit about obstructing pavements) via the Deregulation Act 2015*.   Lots of council web-sites quote out of date legislation (including our local District Council) I'm afraid.

Not quite true. A disabled woman recently used Section 53 of this act to get a taxi driver prosecuted in the Magistrates court for refusing to transport her. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-43920596 </pedant>
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Regulator on 27 April, 2021, 06:40:48 am
I'm not sure that's correct - this from our county council website..

"It may be a criminal offence for causing an obstruction or damage and would be a matter for the police.

Section 28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - wilfully causing an obstruction to any public footpath or public thoroughfare."

So I'd read that as parking to obstruct the footway is a Police matter.


The only parts of s.28 of the 1847 Act still in force are in relation to dogs:
<snippy snip>

The rest have been done away with over the years, much of it (including the bit about obstructing pavements) via the Deregulation Act 2015*.   Lots of council web-sites quote out of date legislation (including our local District Council) I'm afraid.

Not quite true. A disabled woman recently used Section 53 of this act to get a taxi driver prosecuted in the Magistrates court for refusing to transport her. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-43920596 </pedant>

That’s s.53 - not s.28.  There are only two clauses of s.28 still in force.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: perpetual dan on 27 April, 2021, 08:09:04 am
Re the op, is there space on the drive for the blocking car to pull forward and not be an obstruction, or do they need a shorter car?

Also an observation: near me there’s a section of pavement that the council have painted car parking spaces on, in a half on the pavement half on the road way. This isn’t an ancient tradition that’s being continued, it’s outside Homebase. There’s a lot of noise about how hard it is to park in town, but really that’s mostly how hard it is to park right outside the shop, for 4 hours, for almost no money.

Which reminds me of the time I suggested to a taxi driver outside Brighton station that he get off the pavement as there’s no need to park on it here. He got quite cross.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 27 April, 2021, 09:08:35 am
No the front of the car is close to the porch of the house but just isn't room and it's not a big car. There is space next to it on the drive for a car to be off the road but its like everyone a two car household
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: ian on 27 April, 2021, 09:37:33 am
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).

Seriously, I didn't make it up, I copied and pasted it from Surrey Police (who aren't in London). And more so, when I dibbed the driver who parked on the corner opposite my house, the police spoke to the registered owner (him) and when he ignored them, issued him a fine and three points. I know this because I made them a cup of tea and they told me.
I suspect it was “leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place” rather than (or in addition to) wilful or unreasonable obstruction.

It's what they told me and the car disappeared in a puff of grump. There's double-yellows now and they seem to have stopped the problem. In my experience, if there's a space left anywhere, modern Homo driveverywhericus will park a car on it. We were walking through the back end of Dorking at the weekend, and there's a small estate, as usual, all the front drives have been converted into crappy driveways and still, all the green verges along the road, verges that might have added some colour and life the roads, were covered by (and churned up) by cars. It's something we have sleepwalked into. Front gardens shouldn't be driveways. Green spaces shouldn't be parking spaces. It's a gross social failure.

And yeah, when they turn their nice front gardens into a slab of greasy concrete, it's still sometimes not big enough for an entire car, plus they get another couple of cars, which don't fit in the space, so they dump the third across the pavement at the end of their drive, the bit of parking that was previously available to anyone, but now annexed, along with the pavement.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: Davef on 27 April, 2021, 10:05:13 am
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).

Seriously, I didn't make it up, I copied and pasted it from Surrey Police (who aren't in London). And more so, when I dibbed the driver who parked on the corner opposite my house, the police spoke to the registered owner (him) and when he ignored them, issued him a fine and three points. I know this because I made them a cup of tea and they told me.
I suspect it was “leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place” rather than (or in addition to) wilful or unreasonable obstruction.

It's what they told me and the car disappeared in a puff of grump. There's double-yellows now and they seem to have stopped the problem. In my experience, if there's a space left anywhere, modern Homo driveverywhericus will park a car on it. We were walking through the back end of Dorking at the weekend, and there's a small estate, as usual, all the front drives have been converted into crappy driveways and still, all the green verges along the road, verges that might have added some colour and life the roads, were covered by (and churned up) by cars. It's something we have sleepwalked into. Front gardens shouldn't be driveways. Green spaces shouldn't be parking spaces. It's a gross social failure.

And yeah, when they turn their nice front gardens into a slab of greasy concrete, it's still sometimes not big enough for an entire car, plus they get another couple of cars, which don't fit in the space, so they dump the third across the pavement at the end of their drive, the bit of parking that was previously available to anyone, but now annexed, along with the pavement.
You can get fined but you can’t get the bonus points for obstruction, but leaving a vehicle dangerously is easier as it is more of a matter of opinion. Obstruction needs someone to actually be obstructed unreasonably.
Title: Re: Pavement parking issue
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 27 April, 2021, 12:00:48 pm
Actually rather impressed my local councillor just rang and we are meeting tomorrow to discuss having already been along road and seen the situation. He advised reporting it robpolice and keeping photos and getting an incident number each time