Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Camping It Up => Topic started by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 August, 2021, 09:08:26 pm
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I was planning an overnight trip last Friday and as I have a Carradice Camper Longflap saddlebag, (https://www.carradice.co.uk/bags/saddlebags/camper-longflap-green) I thought I might as well use and take the "fast" bike rather than the pannier-rack bike. I knew I'd have to put some items elsewhere, so the sleeping mat would go on the bars as the most suitably shaped and sized object. The tent itself would be strapped to the top of the saddlebag. Then it's just a question of putting everything else in the capacious interior and large side pockets. Easy.
Except it wasn't. By compressing my sleeping bag as much as I could, I got it down to about 30cm long by 18cm diameter. That fits in the bag, but I had to rearrange the straps that go round the dowel to put the buckles on the outside rather than the inside, so they wouldn't catch on the sleeping bag. Then there was just room next to it for a cooking pot, as long as I only took the small pot, which is fine because I usually only take that one. Mug and tea bags inside the pot, stove and fuel in one pocket, waterproof jacket in the other pocket. Bowl on top of cooking pot, starting off a second layer, with one or two small clothing items and then a warm jacket. By now I needed the longflap with its second straps. But that left no room for food, nowhere to put tools and I'd be restricted to what water I could carry on the bike – not a problem on a campsite but might be a problem when wild camping. Of course there are always solutions, like eating at a pub... but that kind of defeats some of the point.
Having now watched a video on how to maximally compress a sleeping bag into its stuff sac (I knew to start from the foot end and turn the bag as you go, but not to fold the foot vertically first), I've got it down to about 25cm long, which makes it easier. The manufacturer claims it will compress down to 19cm long by 18cm diameter, I reckon you've got to Geoff Capes with a PhD in origami for that. I suppose we should treat size claims with the same scepticism we give to temperature ratings. Abandoning all pretence of spare clothing beyond a jacket, I reckon there's enough space for a bit of food too. It looks like a summer overnighter is certainly possible.
But I know some people do multiday, even multimonth tours with just one of these and maybe something on the bars. If you're such a person, what do you take and how do you pack it? Perhaps this is a case for a frame bag too? Or a very large bar bag? I've seen a photo of someone using a Camper Longflap at each end... the front one supported on a decaleur rack (I think that's the term).
In the end, I scrapped the trip due to a sore throat and a forecasted storm. :-\ But maybe next week...
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I did at least confirm that there's plenty of room for my hands on the bars with the mat strapped to them, and the mat doesn't distort the "washing lines" or have any noticeable effect on the steering. I remain slightly concerned about the possible effect on the handling of a heavily-laden saddlebag with short chainstays but there's only one way to really rest that.
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But I know some people do multiday, even multimonth tours with just one of these and maybe something on the bars. If you're such a person, what do you take and how do you pack it?
I tend to assume that such people a) don't feel the cold b) are immune to hard surfaces and c) smell
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You can get some pretty compact 3/4 length inflatable matts. I’d think that both mat and sleeping bag in a dry bag would fit strapped to bars. Freeing up the long flap for other stuff.
Here is such a compact lightweight mat https://www.climbers-shop.com/camping/sleeping-pads-mats/klymit-inertia-x-lite-sleeping-mat__9919806
I have this mat and perfectly comfortable
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But I know some people do multiday, even multimonth tours with just one of these and maybe something on the bars. If you're such a person, what do you take and how do you pack it?
I tend to assume that such people a) don't feel the cold b) are immune to hard surfaces and c) smell
So. I can fit everything I need for an overnighter in Spring-Autumn in .NL in my 15l backpack (Exped Typhoon 15).
My kit for such is:
- Alpkit Hunka XL bivvi bag.
- RAB Siltarp 1 + guylines + 6 x 2.5g TI tent pegs + 2 x alpkit Y Beam pegs.
- Tundra Pure 0°C bag.
- Exped Synmat HL M
- Exped Schnozzel bag
- Exped Pillow
- Rab Silk liner
- Mossie head net
- Pair of socks, couple of pairs of microfiber knickers
- GSI Stainless Glacier mug
- Zelph starlite stove
- Speedster stove pot stand
- 400g tin of food
- Evernew water pouch.
This is an expensive load out, that is not exactly entry level for many. The down sleeping bag packs down to a 5l Alpkit Hunka XL dry bag, the sleep mat packs down tiny too.
This relies on the fact that I would be wearing a merino wool top, which doesn't tend to smell for several days. And that I have a coat (probably a Paramo Quito) either warn, or strapped to the outside of the bag. Food wise it's also only one meal.
The biggest difference to what you can fit in a bag is the down sleeping bag. It packs down considerably smaller than the equivalent warmth of synthetic. If you are willing to use specific compression dry bags, you can probably get it even smaller than I do. By using a bivvi bag, and tarp it also reduces volume considerably compared to a tent. The tarp is 198g. The bivvi bag about 500g. You have to spend a lot of money to get a tent of similar weight and bulk. The downside is limited bug protection (hence the head net). if bugs aren't too much of an issue, then a lux hex peak outer only is about 700g plus a pole.
I feel the cold. A lot. The combo of down + the exped sleep mat make for a warm and comfy nights sleep.
J
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You can get some pretty compact 3/4 length inflatable matts. I’d think that both mat and sleeping bag in a dry bag would fit strapped to bars. Freeing up the long flap for other stuff.
Here is such a compact lightweight mat https://www.climbers-shop.com/camping/sleeping-pads-mats/klymit-inertia-x-lite-sleeping-mat__9919806
I have this mat and perfectly comfortable
Assumes you don't get cold feet. Or can curl up very small.
My sleep matt is about 400g all up (including bag and pump bag). And is full length.
J
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The mat isn't a problem. It fits on the bars just fine. The sleeping bag wouldn't fit on the bars without the mat, let alone with it, mostly due to the diameter. This bike has "washing line" gear cables and the bag won't fit between them. Lengthwise it's okay if I squash it down as much as possible.
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Sure, I could buy a down sleeping bag that packs into a 5 litre dry bag. But that's more money than I'm prepared to spend on it right now, I don't particularly want a down bag (as opposed to synthetic) and this bag still serves me well in terms of warmth and comfort and wear. Something I can think about maybe but not now.
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But I know some people do multiday, even multimonth tours with just one of these and maybe something on the bars. If you're such a person, what do you take and how do you pack it?
I tend to assume that such people a) don't feel the cold b) are immune to hard surfaces and c) smell
Hang on, haven't you already established elsethread that some people simply do not smell?!!!
Another possibility is that people are alternating nights in the open (no cover) with B&Bs/hotels/bothies/friends houses.
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But I know some people do multiday, even multimonth tours with just one of these and maybe something on the bars. If you're such a person, what do you take and how do you pack it?
I tend to assume that such people a) don't feel the cold b) are immune to hard surfaces and c) smell
Hang on, haven't you already established elsethread that some people simply do not smell?!!!
Yeah, but I'm not sure they ride bikes.
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You can get some pretty compact 3/4 length inflatable matts. I’d think that both mat and sleeping bag in a dry bag would fit strapped to bars. Freeing up the long flap for other stuff.
Here is such a compact lightweight mat https://www.climbers-shop.com/camping/sleeping-pads-mats/klymit-inertia-x-lite-sleeping-mat__9919806
I have this mat and perfectly comfortable
Assumes you don't get cold feet. Or can curl up very small.
My sleep matt is about 400g all up (including bag and pump bag). And is full length.
J
I have some down booties for camping. Got them for free off mother’s partner as he didn’t get on with them. Botties squash down to nothing. But yeah I don’t get cold feet and usually only take the booties if alpine climbing or camping in the snow.
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I have some down booties for camping. Got them for free off mother’s partner as he didn’t get on with them. Botties squash down to nothing. But yeah I don’t get cold feet and usually only take the booties if alpine climbing or camping in the snow.
My flat is 24°C. I have to sleep with socks on else my feet get cold...
Sure, I could buy a down sleeping bag that packs into a 5 litre dry bag. But that's more money than I'm prepared to spend on it right now, I don't particularly want a down bag (as opposed to synthetic) and this bag still serves me well in terms of warmth and comfort and wear. Something I can think about maybe but not now.
Yep. Wasn't suggesting you go out and spend £325 on a new bag. Merely pointing out how people can manage to fit everything in the long flap. It may be of use to know that my Mountain Hardware Women's Lamina 5°C bag (now discontinued), packs into an Alpkit 8L dry bag. It's not the cheapest bag on the market, but still considerably cheaper than a down bag.
J
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Sure, I could buy a down sleeping bag that packs into a 5 litre dry bag. But that's more money than I'm prepared to spend on it right now, I don't particularly want a down bag (as opposed to synthetic) and this bag still serves me well in terms of warmth and comfort and wear. Something I can think about maybe but not now.
Yep. Wasn't suggesting you go out and spend £325 on a new bag. Merely pointing out how people can manage to fit everything in the long flap. It may be of use to know that my Mountain Hardware Women's Lamina 5°C bag (now discontinued), packs into an Alpkit 8L dry bag. It's not the cheapest bag on the market, but still considerably cheaper than a down bag.
J
Is that something like this?
https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/mountain-hardwear-lamina-sleeping-bag-1c-D2224085.html
Says it packs to 34 x 18cm, I can get my current bag smaller than that (so I guess this is a case of similar name, changed product).
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Having now watched a video on how to maximally compress a sleeping bag into its stuff sac
How well did they do?
The smallest I've seen a bag packed was into a stuff sack with a valve, I was impressed though I'm not sure I'd want to subject my down quilt to that treatment (neither do I have any need to)
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Is that something like this?
https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/mountain-hardwear-lamina-sleeping-bag-1c-D2224085.html
Says it packs to 34 x 18cm, I can get my current bag smaller than that (so I guess this is a case of similar name, changed product).
Yes, except the one I have is an older version which is only 5°C rated. It's also a women's bag, so slightly shorter. So it all fits in the 8l dry bag.
J
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Having now watched a video on how to maximally compress a sleeping bag into its stuff sac
How well did they do?
The smallest I've seen a bag bag was into a stuff sack with a valve, I was impressed though I'm not sure I'd want to subject my down quilt to that treatment (neither do I have any need to)
They did a lot better than I did!
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Is that something like this?
https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/mountain-hardwear-lamina-sleeping-bag-1c-D2224085.html
Says it packs to 34 x 18cm, I can get my current bag smaller than that (so I guess this is a case of similar name, changed product).
Yes, except the one I have is an older version which is only 5°C rated. It's also a women's bag, so slightly shorter. So it all fits in the 8l dry bag.
J
I treat sleeping bag temperature ratings with scepticism, so I'd probably only use a 5 degree rated bag in the tropics... Add 5 seems a decent rule to follow! I'd never thought about sleeping bags being "gendered" in any meaningful way (ie beyond aesthetics) but I guess it makes sense that they're a bit shorter. Maybe at some point I'll investigate just how much shorter.
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I treat sleeping bag temperature ratings with scepticism, so I'd probably only use a 5 degree rated bag in the tropics... Add 5 seems a decent rule to follow! I'd never thought about sleeping bags being "gendered" in any meaningful way (ie beyond aesthetics) but I guess it makes sense that they're a bit shorter. Maybe at some point I'll investigate just how much shorter.
Oh entirely, they are derived from a heated mannequin, in a controlled environment on a 25mm foam matt. They are supposed to provide 3 numbers, the comfort being what an average woman sleeping on her back get a good night's sleep in. The Limit temp is supposed to be what an average man in the same position could get a good night's sleep in. And the extreme rating is what an average woman can survive a night in, curled up in a fetal position, with frost bite to fingers and toes.
And the great thing about the average woman and the average man, is that they don't exist. Which makes it kinda bogus.
As for men's vs women's sleeping bags. The difference depends on manufacturer. The main difference they all have in common is the women's bag is shorter. In the case of Tundra, that's 100mm shorter. Some manufactures then put more insulation around the upper body. Some shape the bag better to fit round wider hips. In the case of Tundra, then men's and women's bag have the same amount of down, but because the women's bag is shorter, you get a little extra warmth from the larger amount of down per surface area.
The other main difference is that often manufacturers make the women's bags a) more expensive, and b) pink (ok I may be cynical about that one). They may also not do as wide a range, and they may be stocked less by shops.
J
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I have a Camper Longflap and love it. But I wouldn't say you can use it to carry ALL your camping kit, in fact I've never even tried so well done Cudzoziemiec for having a go :thumbsup:
This is Fred ready to go on a two night bivvy trip last September. The Longflap is pretty full, there was some spare room on the Ortlieb Front Rollers...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51354299013_b90c7cae26_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mf1cWv)
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For a summer weekend it works. Anything else - not for me.
I did it to attend a Flying Gate weekend a few years ago. Camping mat, sleeping bag, minimal change of clothes, bare bones toiletries, probably a few other bits as well and the bag was full. Side pockets for tools and waterproof jacket. Tent on top of the bag. No cooking kit needed because it was an organised weekend.
My usual camping trips are 3 to 4 weeks, so I could not fit my kit (little though it is) plus maps and other items into a Longflap. Instead I have a bag the capacity of a medium front pannier into which I put all my camping kit plus maps, then have a Longflap which is about 3/4 full with clothes,toiletries, first aid kit etc. I tour on trikes, so the camping bag sits on a low carrier at about axle height with the Longflap hanging off the saddle and sitting on top of the lower bag, plus a bar bag for paperwork and camera. Low bulk, not too bothered about weight.
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Yes, I can't see it being a practical solution for anything more than an overnighter (at least not without spending thousands on ultralight, nanotiny gear) but I do feel it ought to be doable for an S24O, microadventure or whatever term is applied to spending a night outdoors.
Of course another way would be to use two Campers, one on the back, one on the front, as this guy does: https://youtu.be/KTrJmlag4f8
but that would necessitate wider bars, different shifters (with under-tape cables, or else use flat bars), and probably one of those little front racks too. Money-wise it probably adds up to less than outfitting yourself with ultralight, nanotiny gear, but you've basically made yourself a new bike, in terms of how it'll feel, so it would probably be better to start from scratch.
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Yes, I can't see it being a practical solution for anything more than an overnighter (at least not without spending thousands on ultralight, nanotiny gear) but I do feel it ought to be doable for an S24O, microadventure or whatever term is applied to spending a night outdoors.
For such rides I take less. I can do without the cooking gear and a smaller uninsulated mat is fine for a night, even two might be OK, though that's my limit, YMMV.
What's the worst case scenario? For me it's been waking up uncomfortable at 3am and riding home and back to bed, that's happened once.
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Worst case scenario? Not having a cup of tea in the morning. :D Definitely can't leave the stove behind!
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Worst case scenario? Not having a cup of tea in the morning. :D Definitely can't leave the stove behind!
Agreed!
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Oh dear. Alpkit are selling off their Pipedream 400 down sleeping bag, which they give a comfort rating according to the standard at -4C (I'll take that as "usable down to zero"), for £170. I think they're no longer producing it or something. Supposedly packs to 25 x 18cm or smaller if you squash it. Could I let myself be tempted? Have they been reading YACF? If they'd hurry up and open their announced Bristol shop, I could go along and squeeze it.
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Camping should only be done old school, with a manservant to do all the packing and unpacking.
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Oh dear. Alpkit are selling off their Pipedream 400 down sleeping bag, which they give a comfort rating according to the standard at -4C (I'll take that as "usable down to zero"), for £170. I think they're no longer producing it or something. Supposedly packs to 25 x 18cm or smaller if you squash it. Could I let myself be tempted? Have they been reading YACF? If they'd hurry up and open their announced Bristol shop, I could go along and squeeze it.
I'd go for it. You need a fancy sleeping bag, which if you're like me you won't use as often as you'd like (*), much more than you need £170 :thumbsup: Am I helping? ;D
(*) I have a number of items of cycling equipment which get used less often than I'd like but I still think I was justified in buying. The most notable example would be Fred's lightweight wheel set complete with dyno hub and fancy brake discs. They are currently in the loft and haven't seen the light of day for over a year. Strava tells me they have done a total of 2118.6 miles and I have had them for years ::-)
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Alpkit are very good on returns so you are not really buying it until you have actually slept in it!
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OD, Chris, you owe me £85 each! :D
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(*) I have a number of items of cycling equipment which get used less often than I'd like but I still think I was justified in buying. The most notable example would be Fred's lightweight wheel set complete with dyno hub and fancy brake discs. They are currently in the loft and haven't seen the light of day for over a year. Strava tells me they have done a total of 2118.6 miles and I have had them for years ::-)
Lightweight wheels (or lightweight anything) on a Trucker? What were you thinking?!
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OD, Chris, you owe me £85 each! :D
No problem, just give me a ring and I will happily provide you with credit card details ;D
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(*) I have a number of items of cycling equipment which get used less often than I'd like but I still think I was justified in buying. The most notable example would be Fred's lightweight wheel set complete with dyno hub and fancy brake discs. They are currently in the loft and haven't seen the light of day for over a year. Strava tells me they have done a total of 2118.6 miles and I have had them for years ::-)
Lightweight wheels (or lightweight anything) on a Trucker? What were you thinking?!
Actually, I'll have you know, they do make a significant difference, it's like having two bikes :thumbsup: But I would agree with your broader point, [Disc] Truckers are ambivalent to added or removed weight, which is their charm I think.
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I'm sure they do. I don't have a Trucker but the touring bike I do have is pretty heavy (probably not as heavy as a Trucker) but better wheels made a huge difference to it. I guess it's always an easy point for manufacturers to make savings in their stock builds.
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Agreed!
Fred's heavy duty hoops were built by the legendary Harry Rowland and since trued following abuse by our very own BFC. The light hoops by Malcolm of Glemsford.
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BFC?
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I have a small collection of pics of camping touring bikes with Carradice Longflaps (how sad those words seem as I type them):
(https://i.postimg.cc/HV8SjNjK/S24-O-Camper-Longflap.png) (https://postimg.cc/HV8SjNjK)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4rfNDqt/Camper-Longflap-Loaded.png) (https://postimg.cc/Y4rfNDqt)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Q9WBcc5X/Camper-Longflap-Ltwt-camper.png) (https://postimg.cc/Q9WBcc5X)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6T2Vhvw4/Camper-Longflap-Akto.png) (https://postimg.cc/6T2Vhvw4)
:)
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BFC?
BFC of this parish in general and Mid-Essex in particular!
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I have a small collection of pics of camping touring bikes with Carradice Longflaps (how sad those words seem as I type them):
(https://i.postimg.cc/HV8SjNjK/S24-O-Camper-Longflap.png) (https://postimg.cc/HV8SjNjK)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4rfNDqt/Camper-Longflap-Loaded.png) (https://postimg.cc/Y4rfNDqt)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Q9WBcc5X/Camper-Longflap-Ltwt-camper.png) (https://postimg.cc/Q9WBcc5X)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6T2Vhvw4/Camper-Longflap-Akto.png) (https://postimg.cc/6T2Vhvw4)
:)
Excellent! Though I do note that only the last one shows a Longflap without other luggage.
I like the yellow bike but I'm not too sure it's wise to drink Fairy liquid. Or were you planning on doing an awful lot of washing up? :D
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Excellent! Though I do note that only the last one shows a Longflap without other luggage.
I like the yellow bike but I'm not too sure it's wise to drink Fairy liquid. Or were you planning on doing an awful lot of washing up? :D
It isn't me, I'd need to carry a set of steps to get on that frame, but I do like to arrive clean
This may be the kit from the Longflap. (https://i.postimg.cc/f3V1Rzt9/Screenshot-2021-08-04-at-18-18-27.png) (https://postimg.cc/f3V1Rzt9)
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The 2nd and 4th photos are me
The 4th photo (blue Longstaff) was an experimental night at the Blackmore C&CC site near Malvern
Kit List (from original post (https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=182263#p182263)):
Tent: Hilleberg Akto (might use a Laser Comp if I get serious about reducing weight)
Sleeping bag: PHD Minim 300 & silk liner (in an eVent compression sack (https://www.seatosummit.co.uk/products/storage-sacks/event-compression-dry-sack/))
Mat: Thermarest Prolite 3 3/4 length.
Off-the-bike clothing: lightweight trousers, warm thermal top, undies, Rab Generator jacket (lighter/warmer/smaller-packing than fleece)
Brew kit: small (100g) gas cylinder plus clip-on feet, Optimus Crux fold-up stove, Optimus Terra Solo pan, fold-up spoon (a set similar to this), lighter, tub of powdered milk, 5 tea bags, 1 helping of muesli, fold-up mug and bowl (Orikaso). The evening meal was down at the pub. I didn't use the powdered milk, having stuffed a pint bought en-route into the spare bottle cage.
miscellaneous: mp3, paperback, toothbrush
2 tubes, normal touring toolkit (LH side pocket)
Waterproof jacket (RH side pocket) & hat.
The conclusion was that there wasn't space for anything in the way of food, and it would be easier if I could liberate extra space in the saddlebag by moving the sleeping bag out.
The 2nd photo (Singular Peregine), was going up onto the Ridgeway en route to the Barge at Honeystreet, for a club long weekend tour.
Sleeping bag, inflatable pillow, silk liner, and mat (original Neoair short) were in the Event drysack on a small front rack, and the saddlebag was less stuffed as a result. No warm jacket, but a bit more in the way of respectable off-bike clothing and breakfast food.
More recently, outside Drakes bothy at the start of a tour of the Cairgorm area (https://www.dropbox.com/s/omvf8xri1n5ztwe/0_bike_ride_map.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/xahzuj6v9cdoilw/3_Bike_at_Drakes.jpg?dl=0)
The same drysack strapped to the handlebar, with silk liner, inflatable pillow, Cumulus Comforter L430 quilt.
In the saddlebag, the Xtherm regular mat, freeze-dried main meals, muesli, & teabags for 5 days, dried milk, a platybottle, an MSR Windpro stove with 230g canister, concertina windshield, the same Terra solo pot and Orikaso mug & dish, and, dare I say it, an Alite Mayfly chair.
The Sea to Summit eVent drybags work well for squeezing down sleeping bags - they stuff normally, with no special techniques, struggle or resulting risk of damage to the baffles, and then compress with the straps, the trapped air getting squeezed out through the eVent base.
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:thumbsup: Thanks for sharing
I like the chair :)
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OD, Chris, you owe me £85 each! :D
A Nigerian prince has left me £75 million which I would like to share with you so if you send me your credit card details I will give it all to you and then you can give me half minus the £85. I will need your name, credit card number and the three digits on the back to prove that I am giving the £85 to the right person
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Useful post Andrew_S.
en route to the Barge at Honeystreet,
What was your experience of the Barge? Stayed there several years ago on a long weekend of the Wylye valley organized by JBB otp with Kim, Wowbagger, Nikki, and the place was... an experience.
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A party bongo playing round the fire until about 03:30 is what it was like.
The trip was a fair while ago, and a repeat experience led me to give the place up, and use the Swan (?) at Wilcot instead.
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Our experience was exactly the same. The food in the pub was good, but that was the only thing (unless your idea were to party round the fire with bongos till dawn).
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Because no mention of the Barge Inn should go without a link to that thread as a warning to future generations: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=91360.msg1918037#msg1918037
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I was on a different site within the last month. Rules were clear that no noise after 23:00 and all radios should be off.
At 21:55 one camper yelled "we have children here trying to sleep, can everybody shut up!"
I sniggered, but was also impressed that an entire campsite complied.
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I was on a different site within the last month. Rules were clear that no noise after 23:00 and all radios should be off.
At 21:55 one camper yelled "we have children here trying to sleep, can everybody shut up!"
I sniggered, but was also impressed that an entire campsite complied.
I have a confession to make...
Ordinarily I am scathing when it comes to noise after dark on campsites, over the years I have been camping the problem has got worse. I am equally scathing about campsite owners / managers who don't enforce their own rules, I can think of one in many years of camping who did. However...
During the summer of 2017 I was camping in France with the fam and we were accompanied by another member of this parish and their fam. One night, after all the kiddies and spouses had gone to bed me and aforementioned member sat up making steady progress through a bottle of pastis. We were chatting but not in loud tones but sound carries across campsites doesn't it? Suddenly from the darkness appeared a fast moving and irate French lady who delivered an exasperated "Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" in our faces with accompanying finger to lips gesture. We apologised, felt embarrassed and went to bed. We should have known better :-[
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I was on a different site within the last month. Rules were clear that no noise after 23:00 and all radios should be off.
At 21:55 one camper yelled "we have children here trying to sleep, can everybody shut up!"
I sniggered, but was also impressed that an entire campsite complied.
I have a confession to make...
Ordinarily I am scathing when it comes to noise after dark on campsites, over the years I have been camping the problem has got worse. I am equally scathing about campsite owners / managers who don't enforce their own rules, I can think of one in many years of camping who did. However...
During the summer of 2017 I was camping in France with the fam and we were accompanied by another member of this parish and their fam. One night, after all the kiddies and spouses had gone to bed me and aforementioned member sat up making steady progress through a bottle of pastis. We were chatting but not in loud tones but sound carries across campsites doesn't it? Suddenly from the darkness appeared a fast moving and irate French lady who delivered an exasperated "Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" in our faces with accompanying finger to lips gesture. We apologised, felt embarrassed and went to bed. We should have known better :-[
What!!! You were on a french campsite without a bar-resto/disco/ boîte de nuit serving the autochtones at 3am?? :facepalm: :o :o tell me who it was and I'll put in a complaint to the Michelin camping guide immediately. Not even pendant le confinement, shocking story, will definitely make TF1 prime time viewing!
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I was on a different site within the last month. Rules were clear that no noise after 23:00 and all radios should be off.
At 21:55 one camper yelled "we have children here trying to sleep, can everybody shut up!"
I sniggered, but was also impressed that an entire campsite complied.
I have a confession to make...
Ordinarily I am scathing when it comes to noise after dark on campsites, over the years I have been camping the problem has got worse. I am equally scathing about campsite owners / managers who don't enforce their own rules, I can think of one in many years of camping who did. However...
During the summer of 2017 I was camping in France with the fam and we were accompanied by another member of this parish and their fam. One night, after all the kiddies and spouses had gone to bed me and aforementioned member sat up making steady progress through a bottle of pastis. We were chatting but not in loud tones but sound carries across campsites doesn't it? Suddenly from the darkness appeared a fast moving and irate French lady who delivered an exasperated "Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" in our faces with accompanying finger to lips gesture. We apologised, felt embarrassed and went to bed. We should have known better :-[
What!!! You were on a french campsite without a bar-resto/disco/ boîte de nuit serving the autochtones at 3am?? :facepalm: :o :o tell me who it was and I'll put in a complaint to the Michelin camping guide immediately. Not even pendant le confinement, shocking story, will definitely make TF1 prime time viewing!
Hopefully you were at least downwind of some open-air urinals?
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ISTR the Barge Inn changed hands a couple of years ago? Anyway, it's still going and judging by the testimonial on their website, it probably hasn't changed much – except that they now have glamping!
“I have no idea how I’ve not come across this pub and campsite before but man… I’m so glad I did 🙂 It’s set on a canal, has amazing walks and countryside a great campsite and brilliant pub. It has an amazing feel to it all, really great people and so down to earth. Campsite staff were friendly and really welcoming, the food was so good and well priced at the pub, the whole place just has this vibe to it, best night I’ve spent in a long time and one I can recommend to anyone. I’m going back Saturday lol, literally didn’t want to leave. Thank you to all the friendly staff that made my stay what I needed. Fun, relaxed and with plenty of laughs. You lot are stars.” Nathan Wiblin, April 2021.
https://thebargeinnhoneystreet.uk
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I have once done a w-e (one night) camping excursion with only a Camper Longflap. It was at school. A mate and I were monitoring a group of DoE bronze trial expeditions at Cowley manor. I took the tent for the two of us and my sleeping bag and probably one or two other items (underwear, eating irons etc), my mate took the stove (Primus, 1960's style) and his sleeping bag. My bag was one of those cheap fibre-filled supermarket jobs which filled the saddlebag and the tent, which went on the bag loops, was a Vango Force 10 4 person size complete with steel poles. This was in the Cheltenham area. AIR I went out via the Kilkenny, getting out of the saddle to climb was an alarming experience and I spent a lot of time sitting on the nose of the saddle to stop the bag rubbing on the tyre (the saddle clamp was one of those steel collars with well worn serrated washers in it, no rack,no mudguards of course, typical junk school bike, 5speed 14-24 with a 48 ring). The things one does in one's youth!
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@Kim and @mzjo - We have experienced the sort of French campsites you're both referring to (very noisy late at night and shocking loos) but mercifully we manage to avoid them most of the time and we have done a lot of camping and caravanning in France.
The shameful incident I recounted occurred HERE (https://www.camping-cheverny.com/) which is a smashing site, we have stayed a number of times.
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To be fair, I'm mostly in the not-bothered-by-noise camp. I don't mind people sitting around chatting, excited children or the occasional vehicle door opening and closing or whatever. It seems unreasonable to expect silence on a big campsite. But playing music and shouting all night is a bit much.
Still, it's good for people to have the option, if that's what they want. It would be helpful if they spelled it out a bit more clearly - the main indicator of rowdiness is whether a site allows campfires, and that's hardly reliable.
Large commercial French campsites aren't always ideal, but at least they're pretty much a known factor. As with C&CC club sites, they're often in useful places, and the facilities can be handy partway through a tour.
My main objection to my night at the Barge Inn was having to breathe paraffin fumes all night, and the ongoing worry that some uncontrolled dog (or drunk human for that matter) would decide to tear holes in and/or empty itself on my tent... :hand:
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I don't think allowing campfires is at all a reliable indicator. I recall somebody saying they would judge by the type of accommodation in use: if it's mostly tents or caravans, it's fine. If there's a high number of campervans, it's likely to get a bit noisy, and if it's converted Transits, ambulances and similar, then it's full on rave. But that probably involves high degrees of prejudice.
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The site I was on allowed camp fires, but only with expensive supplied wood. I rolled my eyes and didn't take my own homemade burner.
Site owners kept trying to sell me wood, which was clearly a good income for them.
But as I said to Mrs Nutty, the site was smoke-free and everybody was happy sitting around their hired washing machine drum.
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Thread resurrection... Cos I've got a camper and I'm bored.... 😄
Basically, inflatable mat, clothes and stuff go in the bag, lightweight one man tent goes under the flap or attached to the top side d rings depending on how much stuff you have, and the sleeping bag assuming you're taking one goes on the bars in a frame mounted drybag.
Plan on making a hotel stop periodically and wash your kit in the shower and you will need far fewer clothes than you might think...
PS adds a bit of weight but I use a post mounted SQL uplift which makes it easier to accommodate a fully loaded camper on the bike and means the bag can be removed at stops.
PPS stuff you need ready access to goes in side pockets which are actually quite big...
Disclaimer... never been far enough away from civilisation to make it worth carrying cooking gear. Solo cycle touring is rather a lonely pursuit so better to make use of eateries along the way and sample the local colour, methinks?
(My last such meal was at a village chippy somewhere on the Boarders of Belgium route where I was greeted like royalty 😁)
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Some years ago, Jane and I spent a weekend at a campsite near Great Malvern. She had intended to take her Roberts Roughstuff, as it's a purpose-built tourer with racks & stuff, but due to some sort of mishap in her bike storage area at home, it was hors concours (buckled wheel, I think). She took her Sabbath titanium bike with no racks at all.
I was in awe of the way she succeeded in fitting everything she needed onto, into and around a single Carradice saddlebag. Tent, mat, sleeping bag, spare clothes, tools, trangia, meths, and a bit of food. Probably something else that I have forgotten. It was a joy to watch a real expert in action.
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I’m forever fiddling with and changing my camping setup, but for short summer trips my camper longflap is my usual starting point.
I’ve never camped with just the saddlebag though. Usually some sort of bar bag and a dry bag strapped to the rear rack behind the saddle bag for either clothing during the summer, or my winter sleeping bag during the colder months.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51292599847_1e469a46a4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m9xYVM)
Pompino camping. (https://flic.kr/p/2m9xYVM) by Luke Hayes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60205142@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48305482156_19ef73dd87_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gAAdUC)
Raleigh mtb. Carradice. Sherwood Forest. (https://flic.kr/p/2gAAdUC) by Luke Hayes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60205142@N04/), on Flickr
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You're almost into basketpacking territory with the barbag on that Pompino! Looks like a Deliveroo box (in a good way).
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52258363314_8cf9ede9da_c.jpg)
Camper camping this weekend just gone.
Sleeping bag, cooking equipment and few clothes in the saddlebag. Waterproof jacket (which I did actually wear for about ten minutes on Saturday) in one side pocket, the other has a book and a fuel bottle. Tent strapped to the top. It could also have been under the longflap, which I didn't use, but I had the straps so why not use them. The roll on the bars is sleeping mat in a dry bag strapped directly to the bars.
It looks a little back heavy but actually handled really well. It meant going without a few comforts but nothing that you'd really miss for a summer weekend, and tbh I could have got more in the saddlebag if I'd used the longflap too. And it felt to so good to be able to ride normally, as opposed to slowing down on every gradient.
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Apropos of nothing, it occurs to me that CamperLongflap would be a good name for a YouTube channel about Minecraft.
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My Longflap is camp; your Longflap is camper; his Longflap is campest.
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The only groupset to use with this would be Campag Super Record.
Which I don't have, but I was fittingly wearing my Campy cap.
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My RSF-edition Camper Longflap was loaded up this past weekend to join HK at the ALC weekend. Unfortunately I put the saddlebag on my fixed (for reasons), so the short ride out over the Chilterns was a bit tougher on Saturday than I would have liked and the return on Sunday involved walking a couple of steeper pinches. Quite a bit of room left in it, mostly because I didn't bother packing food or a stove.
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We have ACME goes Dutch (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=102221.450) coming up next month and my Longflap will be pressed into service again :thumbsup: No camping but 5 nights away so plenty of kit to take.
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Pah! Five nights of bike and beer while staying in hotels? A Barley is more than adequate! You need passport, ferry tickets, spare tube in case of mishaps, underpants ditto... I don't think there's anything missing?
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My RSF-edition Camper Longflap was loaded up this past weekend to join HK at the ALC weekend.
I can vouch for its weight...
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Talking of weight, I weighed my CL when I got home on our not too accurate bathroom scales, which made it 5kg. That was without the tent on top, which IIRC is 1.4kg w/o pegs. Let's allow 500g for pegs, so call it 7kg. Theoretically the Carradice Classic Rack has a limit of 6kg, but I think the real strain on it is not weight but bumping, seems to stress the little tabs that go in the saddle loops.
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Pah! Five nights of bike and beer while staying in hotels? A Barley is more than adequate! You need passport, ferry tickets, spare tube in case of mishaps, underpants ditto... I don't think there's anything missing?
I can’t fit a kitchen sink in a Barley, I have tried!
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Pah! Five nights of bike and beer while staying in hotels? A Barley is more than adequate! You need passport, ferry tickets, spare tube in case of mishaps, underpants ditto... I don't think there's anything missing?
I can’t fit a kitchen sink in a Barley, I have tried!
Not.even.trying.
https://www.dunelm.com/product/collapsible-washing-up-bowl-1000195069
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Pah! Five nights of bike and beer while staying in hotels? A Barley is more than adequate! You need passport, ferry tickets, spare tube in case of mishaps, underpants ditto... I don't think there's anything missing?
I can’t fit a kitchen sink in a Barley, I have tried!
Not.even.trying.
https://www.dunelm.com/product/collapsible-washing-up-bowl-1000195069
My head is hung in shame. I’ll try harder!
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You're almost into basketpacking territory with the barbag on that Pompino! Looks like a Deliveroo box (in a good way).
Does this count as basketpacking?
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/on0vddn00jtc3eq/bike_load.jpg?raw=1)
(Lerwick)
Note the auxiliary transport (microscooter)
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It's either basket packing or a basket case! I like the use of what appear to be washing-up racks to hang luggage from. Very innovative.
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I'd put them down as fridge shelves
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I'd put them down as fridge shelves
Your Silly Oak fridge correspondent concurs.
I also appreciate the creative use of bar-ends.
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I'd put them down as fridge shelves
Your Silly Oak fridge correspondent concurs.
I also appreciate the creative use of bar-ends.
You live in Selly Oak? That's where my Dad grew up, Heeley Road.
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I bow to the superior domestic-fitting spotting capabilities of my Selly Oak and Gloucestershire colleagues.
Talking of creative use of bar ends, I read yesterday about thumb ends.
https://bikepacking.com/gear/adding-alt-hand-positions-to-flat-bars/
Scroll down to where it says "TOGS".
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I'd put them down as fridge shelves
Your Silly Oak fridge correspondent concurs.
I also appreciate the creative use of bar-ends.
You live in Selly Oak? That's where my Dad grew up, Heeley Road.
Indeed. I bet there weren't as many fly-tipped fridges (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117092.msg2680465#msg2680465) in those days.
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Talking of creative use of bar ends, I read yesterday about thumb ends.
https://bikepacking.com/gear/adding-alt-hand-positions-to-flat-bars/
Scroll down to where it says "TOGS".
That makes sense. I often use that hand position on the tiller of the Red Baron, where the steering is a sufficiently light touch that I don't think thumb grips would add anything, but I can see how it would be useful on a flat-barred upright, especially for off-road riding.
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I'd put them down as fridge shelves
Your Silly Oak fridge correspondent concurs.
I also appreciate the creative use of bar-ends.
You live in Selly Oak? That's where my Dad grew up, Heeley Road.
Indeed. I bet there weren't as many fly-tipped fridges (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117092.msg2680465#msg2680465) in those days.
If my poor old Dad and his elder brother were still with us I'd deffo have bought a couple of those calendars! ;D
I don't know much about Selly Oak, then or now, but I imagine the two Rowley brothers and their parents would have been scandalised by the dumping of fridges in their neighbourhood >:( My Dad, who ended his years in West Sussex, was somewhat pissed off by their neighbour's habit of not keeping tidy the driveway shared with my parents, we're talking about the odd bag of garden stuff. A fridge would have been way too much ;D
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It has, as you might expect for a suburb of Birmingham within spitting distance of the University campus, been overrun by buy-to-let HMO landlords in recent years. On our road (at the bottom end, which is technically Bournbrook) about 90% of the houses are student rentals, with a small number of longer-term residents (we're fortunate in that our landlord can't be arsed to have anything to do with students). Which means that nobody gives a shit about maintenance or keeping things tidy[1]. The roll-out of wheeliebins a few years ago solved the rat problem, but turned the pavements into a perpetual wheeliebin slalom. I get the impression that things are slightly better at the top of the hill, with more of the rentals being to hospital employees, who aren't any more likely to maintain the stuff their landlord won't, but are a lot less inclined to drop litter or get drunk and smash things.
It's also a de-facto car park, except over the summer, when the university stops teaching, the BRITISH students move out, and the builders move in. Obviously the first thing they do when stripping a house to re-fit for HMO use is to dump the fridge on the pavement outside. The scrap metal fairy then vanishes the compressor, releasing any greenhouse gases within.
When we first moved here, a friend remarked that her sister had been a UoB student, and that what struck her about Selly Oak was the sheer number of fridges lying around. Hence the calendar...
(Due to the Colemanwealth Games, parking is currently residents-only and strictly enforced by wardens in a lot less PPE[1] than the usual council ones. Someone's been round and collected all the fly-tipping, too. And there's cheering and oohing and ahhing from the stickball pitches. It's all rather lovely.)
[1] The neighbours (housing association tenants) and I take it in turns to sweep up broken glass, because they have a dog and we have bicycles.
[2] When did traffic wardens start wearing motorcycle helmets in case they got beaten up?
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It has, as you might expect for a suburb of Birmingham within spitting distance of the University campus, been overrun by buy-to-let HMO landlords in recent years. On our road (at the bottom end, which is technically Bournbrook) about 90% of the houses are student rentals, with a small number of longer-term residents (we're fortunate in that our landlord can't be arsed to have anything to do with students). Which means that nobody gives a shit about maintenance or keeping things tidy[1]. The roll-out of wheeliebins a few years ago solved the rat problem, but turned the pavements into a perpetual wheeliebin slalom. I get the impression that things are slightly better at the top of the hill, with more of the rentals being to hospital employees, who aren't any more likely to maintain the stuff their landlord won't, but are a lot less inclined to drop litter or get drunk and smash things.
It's also a de-facto car park, except over the summer, when the university stops teaching, the BRITISH students move out, and the builders move in. Obviously the first thing they do when stripping a house to re-fit for HMO use is to dump the fridge on the pavement outside. The scrap metal fairy then vanishes the compressor, releasing any greenhouse gases within.
When we first moved here, a friend remarked that her sister had been a UoB student, and that what struck her about Selly Oak was the sheer number of fridges lying around. Hence the calendar...
(Due to the Colemanwealth Games, parking is currently residents-only and strictly enforced by wardens in a lot less PPE[1] than the usual council ones. Someone's been round and collected all the fly-tipping, too. And there's cheering and oohing and ahhing from the stickball pitches. It's all rather lovely.)
[1] The neighbours (housing association tenants) and I take it in turns to sweep up broken glass, because they have a dog and we have bicycles.
[2] When did traffic wardens start wearing motorcycle helmets in case they got beaten up?
We should be proud, that in the great tradition of yacf, we have successfully hijacked a thread about saddlebags in order to discuss a suburb of Birmingham!
My Dad and uncle moved out of Selly Oak in the 1950s. My grandad moved out to live in a Quaker old folks home (Oak Tree House) in Bourneville in the late 60s after his second wife died. His first, my grandma, died not long after giving birth to my Dad in the late 30s. So I guess they all moved out of SO before the students moved in.
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1950s would be before the cars really moved in, judging by old photos that come up on the interwebs from time to time (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/gallery/selly-oak-nostalgia-7373652).
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"This is all that remained of the Selly Oak in the 1950's."
It had never occurred to me that there was an individual selly oak. I'd assumed Selly was derived from something else, maybe it was "the place of the oak tree belonging to Selwyn" or something. But what is "a selly oak"?
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The name Selly is derived from variants of "scelf-lei" or shelf-meadow,[2] that is, pasture land on a shelf or terrace of land, probably the glacial deposits formed after the creation and later dispersal of Lake Harrison during the Quaternary period. Another source for the name comes from OE 'sele' meaning a building, or a hall.[3]
There's a whole section about the tree itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selly_Oak#The_'Oak'_tree
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:thumbsup: