Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Camping It Up => Topic started by: antokelly on 07 November, 2013, 12:51:50 am
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folks trying to put a lightweigh touring kit together
any of you guys got photos of your set up showing saddlebag.barbag and gear.
thanks.
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Lightweight is relative, but there are some good photos of gear in this thread:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61057.0
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wow thanks kim quickest reply ive ever gotten :thumbsup:
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Carrying luggage on longer rides (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63189.msg1313989#msg1313989)
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ideally i'm after bikes that has carradice camper saddle bag and super c barbag. strange request i know but this is gonna be my set up .i've recently sold my thorn sherpa and all my camping gear so basically i'm starting from scratch.my bike is a raleigh 753 no racks nor will it have just the rack for saddlebag.
still looking to buy a super c barbag if anyone has got one lying about. ;)
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Carrying luggage on longer rides (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63189.msg1313989#msg1313989)
excellent just what i'm after,you dont use a barbag do you. do you have a packing list by any chance.great set up btw.
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Tail End Charlie from another thread
Saddlebag.
1 man tent (excluding the poles).
sleeping bag (0 degree).
inflatable mattress (size of a coke can).
boxer short.
thick woolly sock for sleeping
Rapha softshell jacket (useless, used for five days but that's it).
merino baselayer.
medical bag (pill, bandage, cream, etc.)
European USB plug (France, Spain and Morocco use the same plug)
1x inner tube.
Framebag.
E-Werk convertor to power phone, camera, etc. from the dynamo.
2 camera (big and small, can do with just the small)
Kindle.
Android smartphone.
passport.
lips balm.
sun cream (threw away after France, I'm pink already).
maps (brought them while in the country, then throw away when left the country
Red water bottle (under the downtube of the bike).
15mm spanner.
allen keys set (the Topeak Hexus II).
10+ patches.
2+ glue.
Leatherman Wave.
lots of zip tie.
[Bike wear.
Rapha touring short (credit card + cash in tiny pocket).
Rapha merino jersey (fricking amazing).
Gore bibs short (threw it away after Spain).
normal sock for riding.
Vans Authentic shoes.
What I could do without;
Get rid of the Softshell jacket for a thin ultralight rain jacket and a Uniqlo ultralight down jacket, the latter is great for the morning when it's almost cold in the sleeping bag, both will pack smaller than the Softshell jacket too.
Only one camera, Sony RX100 with a larger sensor mean I don't have to take my bigger camera, also charge off the camera without a battery charger.
Clipless pedals, only because descending on a fixed wheel doing over 120rpm on the Pyrenees is hard work keeping your feet in the clip, I'll stay with clip and strap if I have a freewheel.
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very good thanks for that.
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A cheap two man tent, one pannier, self inflating mat, some clothes and a bike. I should have taken something a bit warmer than a silk sleeping bag liner: but it was summer
(http://audaxing.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/wpid-img_20130726_0833171.jpg?w=500)
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Plenty more in this thread:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=46559.0
edscoble's trip to Morocco was pretty lightweight, too, but I can't find that report on the forum at the mo'.
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My lightweight consists of a pair of carradice front panniers on the rear rack with a bar bag. Tent strapped to the top of the rack. Clothes, sleeping mat and bag etc one side, cooking kit etc on the other.
The small panniers stop you from overloading with stuff you think you'll use but never do. Essentials and valuables in the bar bag.
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Carradice sqr bag, with sleeping bag, roll mat & sandals attached, hooped bivi on the
bars
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/westywagen/DSC_0341_zpsb6614579.jpg)
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edscoble's trip to Morocco was pretty lightweight, too, but I can't find that report on the forum at the mo'.
Found it!
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61057.msg1501475#msg1501475
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this blog is worth a read:
http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.co.uk/)
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thanks zigzag i came across that guy before, but i dont think i would be able to go that far sleeping on bubble wrap :facepalm: mental if you ask me. ;D
so far my set up will be something like this sorry cant post photos no idea how to :-[
bike Raleigh 753
saddle bag /carradice camper plus expedition rack.
barbag (on order) carradice carradura.
tent/mountain hardware spear gt2.
new down quilt on order
new exped lite matt on order.
thermerast compressable pillow mediun bulky but a great bit of kit.
aluminium thingy for under matt.
cooking
small gas stove
small gas cyclinder
small kettle
tea/coffee
cloths
on bike usual gear, bibs, base , cycling jersey,gilet.
rain gear /corrine dennis storm proof jacket
rain pants
waterproof socks
marino base layer
rab jacket.jelly bag.craig hoppers pants.
shimano cycling shoes good off bike.
tools .spares tubes/lights.
well will either add or reduce gear wheni'm finally sorted ::-)
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Bike
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4orubz2pp7pn8p/bike.jpg?raw=1)
Bike with gear
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/wuadbxwvhizpeto/bike_ridgeway.jpg?raw=1)
At camp
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/54mlmrppucz5mx9/Rothiemurchus_camp.jpg?raw=1)
The sleeping bag (PHD minim 300), silk liner, mat (Neoair) and pillow (Exped) were in a drybag on the front rack.
Puncture kit & tools were in one side pocket, and waterproof jacket in the other. The main compartment of the saddlebag was food (about 3 days worth of muesli & 2 days dehydrated meal, teabags and what I picked up on a day-to-day basis, cooking stuff (Edelrid Opilio stove, MSR Ti kettle, gas can + spare, Katadyn water filter, spork), clothes (t-shirt/trousers/undies/spare undies/warm top for the evening(Rab Generator), plus what I was wearing), guidebook & maps, luxuries (eBook reader, camera & binoculars). The thermarest chair was with the tent & tent poles under the saddlebag flap. Minor odds & sods not mentioned. No extra footwear (using SPD sandals).
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like the way you carry the milk.
excellent set up ;)
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Want.
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what the milk :D
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I think it's more a sort of "General Wantyness" on that score Chris 8)
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Bike with gear
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t207/andrew_sw/bike_ridgeway.jpg)
Why?
Your choice of course, but that isn't a demonstration on lightweight camping, it's how to fit two panniers of kit in/on a saddlebag :)
I don't see any advantage.
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excellent set up in my eyes.
why take too panniers when one saddle bag will do :thumbsup:
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But panniers are so much better at containing the milk... ;)
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Thats true but the bigger the pannier the more unwanted gear your gonna take.
ah sure i might as well bring this tv as well loads of room for it. ;D
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There is a big difference between what is essential and what is unneeded. If you analyse your above list there is no way you will get that in a long flap camper, even with you tent tied to the outside.
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Nothing beats a try bikepacker :thumbsup:
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Thats true but the bigger the pannier the more unwanted gear your gonna take.
ah sure i might as well bring this tv as well loads of room for it. ;D
The capacity of a pair of Ortlieb Front Rollers is 25 ltr. A Carradice Camper is 23ltr.
So choosing a large saddle bag over a pair of small panniers isn't about how much you carry. There is a small weight saving with a saddlebag, maybe half a kilo, you could save that by taking powder milk ;) Not only will two panniers be easier to pack and keep stuff separate, wet from dry, clean from dirty, they'll also keep the weight lower and attach to stronger points on the frame rather than the saddle rails.
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yeah but i cant use panniers on my bike as it will not take rear or front racks the tubes are way to thin reynolds753.so thats he reason for going the carradice route with expedition rack, works fine and is pretty solid no sway what so ever :thumbsup:
i think if a fella was to get the packing spot on this is the way to go.
mind you i could be wrong has been known ;D ;D
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The lightweight long distance people seem to use a combination of frame bags and fancy stuffsacks. Interzen has some of this gear.
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::-) seriously wouldn't say i was a lightweight camper just trying to compress as much creature comforts as i can into one bag.without taking the kitchen sink ;D
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Anto:
As I have said to you in emails, you confuse me. ??? You had a fantastic cycle camping outfit, great bike, tent, luggage and all the ancillary gear. You had it over 4 years and only did a couple of short rides, camping about 14 nights in total. You sold that at a great loss vowing never to camp again.
Now you seem to want to spend all over again when bottom line you dislike camping. Yes I know you love your cycling and the idea of cycle touring. With the money you have lost and what you now intend to re-spend, you could have done, and still do, some great B&B touring giving you those creature comforts. As a friend I say to you; give a lot of thought, making absolutely certain it is what you want to do, before you spend more money.
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Why?
Your choice of course, but that isn't a demonstration on lightweight camping, it's how to fit two panniers of kit in/on a saddlebag :)
I don't see any advantage.
Panniers have a tendency to snag on the edges of ruts, or rocks/vegetation next to the track.
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Anto:
As I have said to you in emails, you confuse me. ??? You had a fantastic cycle camping outfit, great bike, tent, luggage and all the ancillary gear. You had it over 4 years and only did a couple of short rides, camping about 14 nights in total. You sold that at a great loss vowing never to camp again.
Now you seem to want to spend all over again when bottom line you dislike camping. Yes I know you love your cycling and the idea of cycle touring. With the money you have lost and what you now intend to re-spend, you could have done, and still do, some great B&B touring giving you those creature comforts. As a friend I say to you; give a lot of thought, making absolutely certain it is what you want to do, before you spend more money.
Alan when i sold everything i could have cut my wrists thats the truth ,but look you know how i hated front panniers and all that extra weight,
so going kinda lightweight was always on my mind and much prefair 700c wheels ;)....
yeah i know i sold everything and now starting all over again but look i've been doing crazy things like this all my life seriously dont think i'll change now.i know i had bad experiences camping touring but when we were together we had good craic did we not, watlington with the fell club was magic and ireland was great until we met up with you know who :demon:
so i'm going to build up a nice kit and if the camping bug hits me at least i can do a few overnighters or whatever.
mind you i still have a lot of gear so i dont have to go spending a fortune on stuff.
keep that matt for me :thumbsup:
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well just doing a test run i have everything in the bag except quilt still waiting on that and s/matt.
the tent will have to be strapped to top of saddle bag not much i can do about that.but yeah i'm doing well so far
sleeping gear =ok
cycling gear=ok
rain gear=ok
cooking gear=ok
spares=ok
tools=ok
change of cloths=ok
new front carradice super c on the way so that will carry food and whatever.
pilot still a bit on the dodgy side but i always was. O:-)
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I'm not big on camping but don't like touring without a backup tent etc.
I also like to tour as light as possible as I'm a big guy and therefore not the best hill climber. This year I took the lightweight guys http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.co.uk/)£17, 800g tent and bubblewrap. It worked very well.
A Carradice Longflap weighs close to 1kg plus some sort of support 400g =1.4kg. ?
My Lidl panniers weigh 750g plus a rack 500g=1.2kg.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3740/10707521445_ed615c96eb_z.jpg)
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http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCTents.htm
came across this site this guy even makes his own tents vey good info.
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Quilt finally got here today from America looks a nice job but a cold night in a tent will soon test it out ;D
it's an enlightened equitment 30deg/ 850 goose down/ hand made .cost me 220euro ::-)
next is the matt but that will have to wait another few weeks me thinks.
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Quilt finally got here today from America looks a nice job but a cold night in a tent will soon test it out ;D
it's an enlightened equitment 30deg/ 850 goose down/ hand made .cost me 220euro ::-)
I've been using a Jacks R Better quilt for the past seven years, there's no way I'd go back to a sleeping bag. I can't remember how much it cost, whatever it was it was worth it.
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PH can i ask you a question please, this quilt came with 3 straps 2 long and 1 short there is attachments on the quilt for them but whats the purpose of them .
silly question i know but i've got to ask. ;D
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hi antokelly ,just a thought . why not tow a trailer . it does not affect the handling of your bike and could be left on site on none moving on days so you could explore unladen :)
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hi antokelly ,just a thought . why not tow a trailer . it does not affect the handling of your bike and could be left on site on none moving on days so you could explore unladen :)
Something like an Extrawheel would be quite good for this. You could even use a rear wheel with different gearing and swap them over to ride unloaded. Not sure that it qualifies as 'lightweight', so much as a way of doing loaded touring sensibly with lightweight bikes.
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yes that was the trailer i was thinking about but i had forgotten what it was called ::-)
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cycleman i did have a trailer copy of the bob i just didnt like it to be honest,i hated the feel of the bike pulling a trailer ,no trailers and front panniers are a big no no for me ::-)
i guess it's because i come from riding lightweigh bike's most of my life and i hate the way front panniers kill the feel of the bike ,now i know all you season tourers laugh at this view but its just how i fell sorry.
if i can get my packing list sorted i think i'll be happy enough doing overnighters maybe couple day here and there but being honest i don't want to go back to a heavy touring bike and 4 panniers stuffed to the gills half the fecking stuff you never use anyway.
i'm digging a hole for myself here :'( O:-)
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Carradice SQR, Gelert Solo tent; Snugpak Travelite Xtreme and Decathlon self inflating mat; plus a few clothes
(http://www.fotothing.com/photos/d53/d53e4a2d5935b7b41ce11e9d11b5dcca_583.jpg)
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i had a bob years ago and did not like it much . it was heavy and slow . the extrawheel or a burley cargo is much more fun to tow :)
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You need the right bike! My galaxy is great to ride with 4 panniers, once it is moving - stately! :) :)
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Martin that is fantastic its exactly the set up i'm after. :thumbsup:
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You need the right bike! My galaxy is great to ride with 4 panniers, once it is moving - stately! :) :)
Yeah, it's probably fair to say that bikes designed for carrying a load will ride nicely with a load, and pretty well without one. Bikes designed to be lightweight will be brilliant without too much weight on them, but tend to react badly to things like front panniers.
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butterfly i did have the perfect bike in the thorn sherpa built like a tank and yeah a super ride but just hated front panniers,i dont believe for one second front panniers balances the bike, dont take me up wrong i'm not trying to be a smart ass but just use rear panniers and your bike will preform much better IMHO. O:-)
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Martin that is fantastic its exactly the set up i'm after. :thumbsup:
I think the tent and clothes went in the SQR the sleeping bag and mat were strapped outside in waterproof bags;
I did about 1200 km in the US (where the photo was taken) and Canada with that setup; but it was flattish :)
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butterfly i did have the perfect bike in the thorn sherpa built like a tank and yeah a super ride but just hated front panniers,i dont believe for one second front panniers balances the bike, dont take me up wrong i'm not trying to be a smart ass but just use rear panniers and your bike will preform much better IMHO. O:-)
Front panniers do balance the bike. The mistake is attaching them to the steering bit.
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Martin that is fantastic its exactly the set up i'm after. :thumbsup:
I think the tent and clothes went in the SQR the sleeping bag and mat were strapped outside in waterproof bags;
I did about 1200 km in the US (where the photo was taken) and Canada with that setup; but it was flattish :)
so obviously that set up worked spot on for you martin,or would you change anything i'm sure on that tour you came across many a well laded loaded tourer.
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Martin that is fantastic its exactly the set up i'm after. :thumbsup:
I think the tent and clothes went in the SQR the sleeping bag and mat were strapped outside in waterproof bags;
I did about 1200 km in the US (where the photo was taken) and Canada with that setup; but it was flattish :)
so obviously that set up worked spot on for you martin,or would you change anything i'm sure on that tour you came across many a well laded loaded tourer.
In Michigan no hardly anyone :-\
the big disadvantage was having almost all the weight on the back; ideally I would have put half on the front but that would have involved side panniers or a very big bar bag;
you can borrow the SQR anytime :)
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hi antokelly ,just a thought . why not tow a trailer . it does not affect the handling of your bike and could be left on site on none moving on days so you could explore unladen :)
Something like an Extrawheel would be quite good for this. You could even use a rear wheel with different gearing and swap them over to ride unloaded. Not sure that it qualifies as 'lightweight', so much as a way of doing loaded touring sensibly with lightweight bikes.
That's my reasoning (aided by reading Kim's (much) earlier posts about trailers). An audax style bike and Carry Freedom means that I have a nice bike to ride and I can still transport camping gear for three (we share the towing!) Prperly loaded, it's stable at 50+mph!
I've only seen one Extrawheel on the road; it was impressively stable.
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butterfly i did have the perfect bike in the thorn sherpa built like a tank and yeah a super ride but just hated front panniers,i dont believe for one second front panniers balances the bike, dont take me up wrong i'm not trying to be a smart ass but just use rear panniers and your bike will preform much better IMHO. O:-)
Front panniers do balance the bike. The mistake is attaching them to the steering bit.
If the mass of the load at the front is centred as close as possible to the steering axis and the wheel's axis of rotation it doesn't have much effect on the steering. Too much weight in a handlebar bag, however, is another matter. David Wrath-Sharman built at least one frame with a handlebar bag carrier brazed to the head tube in order to avoid that problem.
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i'll upload some photos of the bikes set up for the transcontinental race, when i get round to it. here are couple of examples:
http://worldcyclerace.com/endurance-cycling-tips-from-a-transcontinental-champion/ (http://worldcyclerace.com/endurance-cycling-tips-from-a-transcontinental-champion/)
http://edwardpickup.com/transcontinental-race-2013/ (http://edwardpickup.com/transcontinental-race-2013/)
the race was unsupported, which meant the riders had to carry their touring kit adequate for over 2000mi trip
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PH can i ask you a question please, this quilt came with 3 straps 2 long and 1 short there is attachments on the quilt for them but whats the purpose of them .
silly question i know but i've got to ask. ;D
I don't know, no straps with mine. They're often used in a hammock so maybe something for that.
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butterfly i did have the perfect bike in the thorn sherpa built like a tank and yeah a super ride but just hated front panniers,i dont believe for one second front panniers balances the bike, dont take me up wrong i'm not trying to be a smart ass but just use rear panniers and your bike will preform much better IMHO. O:-)
I've tried all on the back and F&R panniers on my Vantage and the bike handled far better with the weight on front and rear wheels. Putting the weight at the back just makes an awkward bike with very light steering which makes the bike far less enjoyable to ride. The right touring bike comes alive when properly loaded IMHO.
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PH can i ask you a question please, this quilt came with 3 straps 2 long and 1 short there is attachments on the quilt for them but whats the purpose of them .
silly question i know but i've got to ask. ;D
I don't know, no straps with mine. They're often used in a hammock so maybe something for that.
I've been using the Thermarest equivalent this past year. http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/sleeping-bags/alpine-blanket-35/product supposed to be good to 2C but I found that below 5 I needed to put clothes on as well even though I tend to be a warm sleeper. It is far better than using an open sleeping bag which I've done for some years. It also packs smaller because there are no zips or hood or baffles etc. It cost me £150 and I am pleased with it. It has poppers along the sides to attach to a Thermarest sheet, should you have one - I do not.
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butterfly i did have the perfect bike in the thorn sherpa built like a tank and yeah a super ride but just hated front panniers,i dont believe for one second front panniers balances the bike, dont take me up wrong i'm not trying to be a smart ass but just use rear panniers and your bike will preform much better IMHO. O:-)
I've tried all on the back and F&R panniers on my Vantage and the bike handled far better with the weight on front and rear wheels. Putting the weight at the back just makes an awkward bike with very light steering which makes the bike far less enjoyable to ride. The right touring bike comes alive when properly loaded IMHO.
ah each to there own oh and btw your a bloody good singer :thumbsup:
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,i dont believe for one second front panniers balances the bike, dont take me up wrong i'm not trying to be a smart ass but just use rear panniers and your bike will preform much better IMHO. O:-)
hmm. Try riding up a really steep hill.
All the weight on the rear and you'll have trouble keeping the front wheel down.
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on the sherpa i used rear panniers only even my tent was on top of the rack, ortlieb barbag up front. t i passed bikepacker going down hill at 52mph ask him if you dont believe me the bike was rock solid he took me up some very steep hills in the cotswolds (actually think he was trying to kill me) the bike again was solid cant say the same for the pilot though.
lads and lassies its all in your head, oh i must have front panniers to balance my bike rubbish ;D ;D
like how many time if at all you went to the shops with just one rear pannier full to the gullit i bet it made no difference once you start cycling,but put that same load on the front and see what happens.
honest to god burn all your front panniers yiss are been fooled into thinking there a must have you dont need them honestly. :demon:
ok so put me up against the wall and shoot me. ;D ;D
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For a ride from Santander to home in 2011 my cycling friend used his Titanium bike loaded only at the back but the bike didn't handle at all well.
(http://www.bikepacker.co.uk/pictures/bayyonne02.jpg)
After this trip he went back to using front panniers and spreading the load.
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on the sherpa i used rear panniers only even my tent was on top of the rack, ortlieb barbag up front. t i passed bikepacker going down hill at 52mph ask him if you dont believe me the bike was rock solid he took me up some very steep hills in the cotswolds (actually think he was trying to kill me) the bike again was solid cant say the same for the pilot though.
Maybe but it was slow going up hill. ;D ;D
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he took me up some very steep hills in the cotswolds (actually think he was trying to kill me) the bike again was solid cant say the same for the pilot though.
If you didn't have trouble keeping the front wheel on the ground, the hills weren't steep. I'm talking about the sort of hill where even when riding unladen you need to lean forward to keep the wheel down.
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i stay well away from hills like that mrcharlie aint no shame in walking me thinks.
bikepacker your a feckin animal on a bike going up or down it doesnt seem to matter. ;D
lads i'm only winding you lot up dont please take offence.
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You're only going lightweight as it saves you dumping the gear in a van to get it home ;) ;D ;D
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thats whats known as using the noggin 8)
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lads and lassies its all in your head, oh i must have front panniers to balance my bike rubbish ;D ;D
like how many time if at all you went to the shops with just one rear pannier full to the gullit i bet it made no difference once you start cycling,but put that same load on the front and see what happens.
honest to god burn all your front panniers yiss are been fooled into thinking there a must have you dont need them honestly. :demon:
Don't be silly.
Balancing the bike is a convenient side-effect of front panniers that some bikes can benefit from, but it's not the main reason to use them.
The main reason to use them is to give yourself enough luggage space. You keep talking about unnecessary kit, as if that's what the extra space is for. Well, okay, sometimes it is. But you're assuming that everyone can make do with a wispy summer sleeping bag, ineffective mat, minimal spare clothing and has no need to carry significant amounts of food or spares. That might be the case for your body and your tours, but it isn't going to be true for everyone. Some of us need much more substantial gear to keep warm. Some might need half a trailer for our medication (in bulky original packaging, so it can be carried through border control). Some of us are riding for days on end away from sources of food and water, let alone tyres and tubes. Some of us want to carry clothing or equipment for other activities (eg. hiking, business meetings, amateur radio or photography) while we tour.
Panniers, trailers, banana bags, bikepacking, credit card in a saddlebag... There is no one true way. It's all good.
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You're only going lightweight as it saves you dumping the gear in a van to get it home ;) ;D ;D
I glad you said that Rich. He would have shouted at me I had said it. ;) ;)
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Kim i think you need to take up a new hobby.only joking.
rich ' alan what was the point in me taking the loaded panniers back 50 miles when my nice was heading there in her caravan, besides it was the only time i managed to pass the big guy ,only lasted 50 yds but still he's still peaved about it. ;D ;D
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For a ride from Santander to home in 2011 my cycling friend used his Titanium bike loaded only at the back but the bike didn't handle at all well.
(http://www.bikepacker.co.uk/pictures/bayyonne02.jpg)
If I'm carrying that amount of kit it's in four panniers as well. IMO it would be silly not to.
It would be equally silly to spread what I usually carry for a couple of weeks any more than I have here
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8172/8030988027_b104c1ac0d_z.jpg)
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nice i like it. 8)
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latest update,i seriously think i bit off more than i can chew here, my set up is never gonna work :'(
i have the camper saddlebag packet with all i need have it on the rear rack and it's wobbling all over the feckin place and i still need to tie my 3kg tent on top.
i think i need a touring bike simples. :-[
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Put a front rack on your bike and stick the tent on that. 3Kg isn't going to stuff up the handling.
Your saddlebag shouldn't wobble. Unpack and chuck away half of it.
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Put a front rack on your bike and stick the tent on that. 3Kg isn't going to stuff up the handling.
Your saddlebag shouldn't wobble. Unpack and chuck away half of it.
yip i think you might be right. :thumbsup:
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Yebbut! If you go lightweight Anto, where do you put the coffee machine and the big bag of Ground coffee... and the generator for the steamer and, and... :o
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Yebbut! If you go lightweight Anto, where do you put the coffee machine and the big bag of Ground coffee... and the generator for the steamer and, and... :o
yeah steve wasn't thinking this out at all i need another touring bike end of story. ;D ;D
happy christmas buddy hope its a good one for ya.
anto.
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You too Buddy :thumbsup:
I'll have a brew in your honour on Christmas eve'.
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i don't drink but i'll raise a glass of champers for ya christmas day :thumbsup:
i'm after a Lee Cooper frameset now ;D man if only i had money. ;D ;D
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Don't front panniers cause a problem in a headwind? Imagine getting down on the drops to reduce your profile whilst battling a headwind but you have these huge unaerodyamic bricks sticking out from your front wheel.
This is my kit in France whilst cycle camping/ B&Bing.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7379/9822094883_9c86305da3_c.jpg)
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Don't front panniers cause a problem in a headwind?
Not really, like the back ones, they just slow you down a bit.
Increasing the sail area acting on the steering axis can cause a problem in a gusty sidewind, though.
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Don't front panniers cause a problem in a headwind? Imagine getting down on the drops to reduce your profile whilst battling a headwind but you have these huge unaerodyamic bricks sticking out from your front wheel.
Arguably more aero than rear panniers.
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Don't front panniers cause a problem in a headwind?
Not really, like the back ones, they just slow you down a bit.
Increasing the sail area acting on the steering axis can cause a problem in a gusty sidewind, though.
And if you don’t pack them well, when you get out of the saddle you can wobble like a big girl with no bra. DAMHIKT. :facepalm:
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Arguably more aero than rear panniers.
How does that work? I would have thought the rear panniers are protected from the wind by those huge legs spinning away in front of them? :)
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Specialized did some testing back in the '80s suggesting that front panniers + small rear panniers were more aerodynamic than lumpy large rear panniers alone.
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adenough can i ask what model is that raleigh, is it 531. i'm riding a 753 but i wouldn't think it will take rear panniers.
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Arguably more aero than rear panniers.
How does that work? I would have thought the rear panniers are protected from the wind by those huge legs spinning away in front of them? :)
The legs would create a turbulent flow. The front panniers would, as LWaB indicates, create something of a fairing effect in combination with the rear bags, taking the leg movement out of the main flow, and creating less drag.
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Remember that aerodynamics is mostly about shedding vortices cleanly so as not to create a low pressure zone in your wake, rather than slicing through the air in front (though of course that can help reduce turbulence). The front of the object is much less important than the back. Which is why on a bike, you'll gain far more from an aerodynamic tailbox than you will from a front fairing.
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Loaded up with our standard cycle camping kit...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4oQl0YQT9ik/UuhEAz0FZWI/AAAAAAAAPLM/4TUuKu6aO8I/s640/20120901175146%2520-%2520P1130571.JPG)
setting up camp...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WkpwbUX8Lk0/UuhEGjytyjI/AAAAAAAAPLU/QCcBVUhqe0U/s640/20120901182450%2520-%2520P1130583.JPG)
We are thinking of ultra-light camping on our big Scotland trip this year. I'm looking for the lightest weight gear possible for two people. I'm aiming to pack it in a bar bag + saddlebag + top of rack (i.e. no panniers). Any suggestions please?
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any more photos .
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Saddle bag plus small bar bag...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PI95uIk6dpM/UulZ7viDGlI/AAAAAAAAPLs/3I8QPcL0Gfg/s640/20120205102430%2520-%2520P1070967.JPG)
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Large bar bag, small saddlebag and rear panniers...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gzU4idB0kFk/Uulc1ifb9OI/AAAAAAAAPMA/8C6so_Rl6Wc/s640/20120524150126%2520-%2520IMG_7111_pre.jpg)
You can't see it in the photo but I fitted a small aluminium tube to provide extra support for the heavy bar bag by attaching it by cable ties to the underside of the drops (only added about 60g). It made the bar bag more stable and reduced the risk of breaking the bar bag fixture.
Ideally I aim for 1/3 of the weight on the front for stability & handling, this setup had a greater proportion on the back but the handling was ok.
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Saddle bag plus small bar bag...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PI95uIk6dpM/UulZ7viDGlI/AAAAAAAAPLs/3I8QPcL0Gfg/s640/20120205102430%2520-%2520P1070967.JPG)
Yeah, but how much does all that snow weigh? :D
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I have used a borrowed bar bag in the past and no matter how much I tightened it to the bars it tipped down onto the front wheel.
I thought about lightweight camping in the summer too, but have gone for booking hostels, which give me something to aim for and a shower, and bed to same me carrying sleeping bags, roll mats and tent, plus any other cookware as I assume the hostels will have some shop nearby where I can but food from.
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Weekend away.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/65xroi.jpg)
Somewhat negated by the 35lb bike, but you get the idea.
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I have used a borrowed bar bag in the past and no matter how much I tightened it to the bars it tipped down onto the front wheel.
Was it a rixen fitting, like this:
(http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/medium/13588.jpg)
Did you fit the little cable that loops under your stem?
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fit the little cable that loops under your stem?
I didn't see any cable loops. Can't see any in the picture. I did wonder if some clamps have a bent hook on an arm which goes under the stem to cantilever the bag off the bars.
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fit the little cable that loops under your stem?
I didn't see any cable loops. Can't see any in the picture. I did wonder if some clamps have a bent hook on an arm which goes under the stem to cantilever the bag off the bars.
(http://forum.ctc.org.uk/userpix/1061_Bar3_1.jpg)
Goes over and under. Stops it moving about pretty much.
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fit the little cable that loops under your stem?
I didn't see any cable loops. Can't see any in the picture. I did wonder if some clamps have a bent hook on an arm which goes under the stem to cantilever the bag off the bars.
If the clamp looked like the one in the picture, then you need to fit a little plastic/wire cable. Goes from the main block, loops over bar on one side, under stem then back over the bar. Secured with grub screws.
Stops the bar bag doing what you've described.
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I'm looking for the lightest weight gear possible for two people. I'm aiming to pack it in a bar bag + saddlebag + top of rack (i.e. no panniers). Any suggestions please?
Lightest possible is, as ever, expensive.
Suggestions (at a relatively sensible price range):
Tent: Terra Nova Laser Photon 2 935g
Sleeping bags: PHD Minimus 495g
Mats: Thermarest Neoair xlite short
Cooking: eat out? If you do cook, it's a toss-up between light gas, and a lightweight meths setup (DIY or Caldera Cone). The savings in weight on meths stoves and fuel bottles are lost because they burn double the weight of fuel.
A standard Carradice saddlebag is relatively heavy - you could look at strapping on a drybag in its place, possibly stiffened with correx (estate agent signboard stuff), or use closed cell foam mats instead and line the drybag with them.
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For a ride from Santander to home in 2011 my cycling friend used his Titanium bike loaded only at the back but the bike didn't handle at all well.
If I'm carrying that amount of kit it's in four panniers as well. IMO it would be silly not to.
It would be equally silly to spread what I usually carry for a couple of weeks any more than I have here
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8172/8030988027_b104c1ac0d_z.jpg)
What panniers and rack are you using there? I like the look of that set-up.
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Well, they look like Ortlieb panniers. And the stays make me think that may be a Tubus rack.
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don't you find that big triangular thing creates a lot of wind resistance?
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Much of it is behind the rider, so perhaps it provides a sort of Kamm tail effect.
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Well, they look like Ortlieb panniers. And the stays make me think that may be a Tubus rack.
It was the specific model that interested me. They look like front paniers being run at the back. Has anyone here tried touring using the City roller front panniers at the back for example?
This would give you 25litres capacity in a very compact format.
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Look like front roller classics to me.
A pair of front rollers is an excellent amount of luggage for touring when you don't need camping kit. 25 litres is a good capacity, and it's split in two so you can keep wet and dry things separate. Front rollers are also good for walking around with in shoulder strap mode.
It's also a luggage solution that you have available for day rides if you've set up camp in a heavyweight four-pannier style. If you're going to do this, you ideally want a bike that's been cleverly designed so the front rack uses the same pannier hook positions as the back, or the 'plus' version of the Ortlieb panniers with the new quick-adjust fixings.
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What panniers and rack are you using there? I like the look of that set-up.
The Panniers are as others have spotted Ortlieb Front roller Classics, the Rack a Tubus stainless steel cosmos (Good price from one of the german dealers, Rose?)
it isn't a astoundingly lightweight set up, my posting was more to show that four panniers are not always needed. Total luggage capacity comes to 54ltr , not including the tent poles on the rack. What it does is give a lot of flexibility, on a short trip I leave the stuff sacks and put the tent in one of the panniers, the bar bag doesn't always get used and the saddlebag usually only has in it what I'd carry on a day ride, so plenty of room for shopping.
Panniers 25ltr
Carradice 11ltr
2 x Alpkit stuff sacks 10ltr
Vaude bar bag 8ltr
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it's a fantastic set up for sure and the bike ain't half bad either.
something to aim for me thinks.
is that set up for a few days or a few weeks touring.
any more photos to share. :thumbsup:
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is that set up for a few days or a few weeks touring.
any more photos to share. :thumbsup:
My kit depends more on where I'm going than for how long. Once I'm going for more than a couple of nights, the kit is about the same, though I vary how much cooking stuff I take depending on the tour. This photo is from a three week France/Spain summer tour.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/9763045551_23c3f6f3a6_c.jpg)
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Pure Class no other word for it. :thumbsup:
i was thinking about my new frame that i might add the barley and rack as well as rear panniers.so my set up wont be a million miles away from yours.
do you mind me asking what way have your panniers ans carradice packed what goes where ::-)
always ask an expert.
thanks for posting i'm more than very impressed with your set up.
cheers
Anto.
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Pure Class no other word for it. :thumbsup:
i was thinking about my new frame that i might add the barley and rack as well as rear panniers.so my set up wont be a million miles away from yours.
do you mind me asking what way have your panniers ans carradice packed what goes where ::-)
always ask an expert.
thanks for posting i'm more than very impressed with your set up.
cheers
Anto.
Pannier 1- Bedding (Exped, sheet, quilt, pillow) Book, Radio, off bike wear if I take any - stuffsack with inner tent on top*
Pannier 2 - Cycling clothes, washkit, towel (if dry) Jetboil, bowl - Stuffsack with outer tent on top*
Carradice** - Anything I might need in the day - waterproof, gloves, overshoes, first aid kit, bike kit, lock, footwear (If taken), food. The only time this is really full is when I've been to the supermarket
Bar bag - camera & lenses, wallet, other valuables
* These go in the pannier if I'm carrying less kit.
** I changed this recently from a Pendle to a Nelson Longflap, not for camping reasons but because the extra space is useful when commuting.
The idea is that the panniers don't need to be opened from one campsite to the next. which also means I can drop the panniers off and know I still have everything I might need for a day ride, without having to re pack. This has been pretty consistent for the last 5 years, it took me a decade to refine it and it's right for me. I make no claim that it might be right for anyone else ;)
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sounds great to me i'm just gonna get a pen and copy that info down.
Thanks PH great info much appreciated ;)
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adenough can i ask what model is that raleigh, is it 531. i'm riding a 753 but i wouldn't think it will take rear panniers.
Apologies for not getting back. I don't get e-mail notifications for some reason.
It's an early 90s Royal. 531 throughout. Takes front and rear panniers. And a big fat guy. ;)