Author Topic: Flights of Fancy  (Read 85075 times)

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #175 on: 12 July, 2020, 04:08:20 pm »
I think so.  As far as I can make out it is still (just) in the climb rather than rounding out when it drops the tow and the nose is too far up.  I'm going to have another go later this evening when the breeze drops again, try bending the hooks up to see if I can keep it on the line for another half second or so, but I'm not optimistic. 
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

andytheflyer

  • Andytheex-flyer.....
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #176 on: 13 July, 2020, 07:49:48 am »
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.

I agree that it's stalling at the top of the climbout - it loses a lot of height very quickly, but the glide is good.  Is the towline hanging up and the weight of the line bringing the nose down just before release?

Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #177 on: 13 July, 2020, 08:02:03 am »
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.

I agree that it's stalling at the top of the climbout - it loses a lot of height very quickly, but the glide is good.  Is the towline hanging up and the weight of the line bringing the nose down just before release?

Looks the opposite to me, being released nose up and still climbing after release then stall.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #178 on: 13 July, 2020, 04:53:15 pm »
Quote from: andytheflyer
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.
Here, have this nice cup of tea and a biscuit.  It'll help with the shock.  Did your models find good homes?

*points Andy at the VMC SE5 which will fly very nicely in a small field or even better indoors*  :)

Quote from: pcolbeck
...being released nose up and still climbing after release then stall.

Aye.  You may not be able to step it through in a browser viewer, but stepping the original in VLC it's pretty obvious that the tow is being slipped too early. 

It's better with the hooks bent up to roughly || to the keel (as they should have been to start with - brain fart on my part) in that launches are now predictable, but in flat calm last night I was still getting a stall at the top of the line as it seemed to come to a dead stop.  This is not something I've ever seen before.  Pretty puzzled by that. 
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #179 on: 13 July, 2020, 05:02:28 pm »
Its decades since I launched a glider off a line but what about changing the drag on the line? My guts say add more so the line slows down quicker at the top of the arc and the glider shoots off but maybe less so it the line doesn't pull as much and the glider can float off?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #180 on: 14 July, 2020, 06:29:18 am »
Quote from: pcolbeck
...what about changing the drag on the line? My guts say add more so the line slows down quicker at the top of the arc ...
I think from my memory of Sunday's obs. it *may* need less drag, i.e. a smaller pennant so that it's still moving forward at and "over" the top.  Looking at the weather it's going to be a few days before I can try it out.  Stab & fin off last night and stab incidence bumped to -2 deg.  Refit that tonight.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

andytheflyer

  • Andytheex-flyer.....
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #181 on: 14 July, 2020, 09:39:15 am »
Quote from: andytheflyer
Hi, just beginning to crawl out from under the duvet after emptying the hangar.  Sob.
Here, have this nice cup of tea and a biscuit.  It'll help with the shock.  Did your models find good homes?

*points Andy at the VMC SE5 which will fly very nicely in a small field or even better indoors*  :)
Yup, it's sitting on a shelf, just awaiting completion, which will follow once I've sorted the 5 spd gearbox on my 1973 Triumph Tiger 750 re-build.  I now seem to have eliminated the gear change problem and it just needs the outer cover going on and I can try it out.  Then it needs a few miles, followed by the tank and rocker boxes off, re-torque the head, rocker boxes and tank back on, and test again.  Rinse and repeat once more and we should be good to go for the rest of the summer.

Then the SE5......

And yes,  thx.  The models all went to good homes, apart from the big Auster, which the LMS thought would go first, it's been in quarantine for 3 months......  I was pleasantly surprised at how much they sold for.  I would have to confess, however, that their departure has been somewhat emotional.  Some I'd had for years and had put a lot of work into them. I gave a lot of kit away to good homes too.  Virtually nothing went in the bin. 

I just need to buy a shotgun now to start my drone campaign............

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #182 on: 14 July, 2020, 12:17:26 pm »
This thread is about model aeroplanes...

This video of a model Concorde is amazing, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P0ByxIymYg
It is simpler than it looks.

andytheflyer

  • Andytheex-flyer.....
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #183 on: 14 July, 2020, 06:23:22 pm »
This thread is about model aeroplanes...

This video of a model Concorde is amazing, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P0ByxIymYg
What they didn't show you were the bicycle clips on his trouser legs.  To keep the you-know-what-in.

Those of us who have maidened R/C models have all been there..................

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #184 on: 14 July, 2020, 07:14:15 pm »
Quote from: jaded
...Concorde...
Not bad, not bad at all.  There are some really rather talented builders out there aren't there?

Quote from: andytheflyer
I just need to buy a shotgun now to start my drone campaign............
A one man Kammhuber line?  :)
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #185 on: 15 July, 2020, 09:19:56 pm »
Finally laid out the vertical stabiliser for the glider I've had the fuselage, wings and tailplane built for about 18 months.  Had some "alone time" this evening, nice to reconnect with the tactility of the balsa with work being mostly BRANES only.  It's the first of these i've ever built, from a kit bought for me as a teenager but I've hung onto, and oddly i'm in two minds whether to cover it and fly it or not.  I just love looking at the structure and thinking "I built that". 

Anyway, next step glue the stabiliser and hone the profiles round the corners.  I also need to do a bit of rhinoplasty on the noseconse
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #186 on: 15 July, 2020, 09:26:29 pm »
What is it?
We want pictures!
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #187 on: 16 July, 2020, 11:23:40 am »
This thread is about model aeroplanes...

This video of a model Concorde is amazing, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P0ByxIymYg
When I worked for The Science Museum I was based at Wroughton Airfield for a few months.
The local Aero Modelling Club used to fly stuff of that sort of size / complexity on a fairly regular basis, down there.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #188 on: 16 July, 2020, 11:57:26 am »


A kit glider by Veron, as I said I'm slightly trepidatious about covering it never having done that before. Also unsure about fixing wings and horizontal tail - the instructions say use rubber bands
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #189 on: 16 July, 2020, 01:04:37 pm »
Something like this, maybe:



But that implies that you have a wing in one piece rather than separate halves, and crossbars in the fuselage to hook the elastics onto.

(Not my pic, I haven't built a plane for 40 years)
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #190 on: 16 July, 2020, 01:37:36 pm »
Yes, wings are one piece, instructions do not give any indication of that type of arrangement
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

andytheflyer

  • Andytheex-flyer.....
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #191 on: 16 July, 2020, 02:37:15 pm »
Yes, wings are one piece, instructions do not give any indication of that type of arrangement
You should have a dowel (maybe 1/4" dia) projecting maybe 1/2" from the fuse just in front of the LE and just behind the TE.  The rubber bands hook over these as T42 shows.

The benefit of rubber bands is that the wings detach easily in the event of an 'arrival'.

Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #192 on: 16 July, 2020, 02:47:22 pm »
If Dave's glider is a Veron Combi Classic which is what it looks like from the photo's the plans are online and they forgot to put in the instructions for retaining dowels.
Oops.
http://www.ffscale.co.uk/combi_plans/classic.pdf
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #193 on: 16 July, 2020, 02:58:39 pm »
That is it, indeed.

Any particualr technique for getting a round dowel to attach to square edges? Just file a bit flat?  I assume you cover after the dowels are in place?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #194 on: 16 July, 2020, 03:08:56 pm »
That is it, indeed.

Any particualr technique for getting a round dowel to attach to square edges? Just file a bit flat?  I assume you cover after the dowels are in place?

When I used to make gliders donkeys ago the ones I did you filled in a section of the fuselage with sheet balsa with a round hole for the dowel. It strengthened the attachment point as well.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #195 on: 16 July, 2020, 04:27:29 pm »
That looks lovely.  I know what you mean about not wanting to cover it.

Quote from: pcolbeck
Quote from: ElyDave
...round dowel to attach to square edges?
...filled in a section of the fuselage with sheet balsa with a round hole for the dowel. It strengthened the attachment point as well.


As P. says.  Sheet infill, pierce for dowels.  Fit hardwood (spruce usually) dowels after covering. 

Looking at yours, for the wing I'd infill just aft of frame D with 3/32" or 1/8" (or two bits of 1/16" glued together cross-grained for strength), doesn't have to be the full gap back to frame E and pierce just forward of the wing in the cockpit "coaming".  You might want to put a small piece of sheet doubler inside the coaming before piercing it.  Don't have the dowels under the wing and _don't_ cross the bands.  Run them fore and aft, that way they are more likely to ping off on a hard arrival saving the wing from damage.  Take spare bands with you when you go flying.  You will *not* find them when they ping off.

As for fitting the stab?  I'd glue it on, but use balsa cement rather than cyano, PVA or aliphatic.  It'll simplify construction, cut the weight aft of the CG and you won't have the stab & fin "wandering" between flights.  If you use balsa cement you can use cellulose thinners or acetone to dissolve the glue if you find that you need to reposition the stab.

Based on my vast experience (grams: hollow laughter) the hook position is for a hand tow launch rather than bungee.  You'll need to move it forward for bungee launching if that's your intention.  How much? Ah, now.  That's a tricky one that I can't give a definitive answer to.  I'd fit two, one at frame B, and one at frame C and see how it goes.  For how _not_ to do it see upthread.  :)

If you do want to fly it I'd suggest signing up at HPA (https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php) and heading to the tow-line gliders board. There are people there who really know what they're talking about.

When it comes to covering there are several ways of skinning the cat and every modeller has her or his preferred method.  There'll probably be only just enough tissue in the kit.  Buy some more, it's dirt cheap, so that when you get it wrong first time you can happily strip it off and try again.  As Andy will confirm, 9 out of 10 models need at least one component stripped and recovered *at least* once no matter how many models you've built.  The good news is that the one you're building doesn't have any/many compound curves which will make life sooo much easier.

ETA.
There's a very active bungee launch mob at Peterborough who will be very glad to help you get it airborne when it's finished.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

andytheflyer

  • Andytheex-flyer.....
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #196 on: 16 July, 2020, 08:23:12 pm »
As Andy will confirm, 9 out of 10 models need at least one component stripped and recovered *at least* once no matter how many models you've built.
Nah, 9.9 recurring..............

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #197 on: 29 July, 2020, 09:22:59 pm »
Huge sighs of relief all round at Lurker Industries.  Baby Minimoa is a goer.  No film yet.

Ballast ~7.6g

Repeatable clean transition to flight off 9 to 10 paces on a 20m line( 10m of 0.045” strip, 10m line) in ~7mph winds using the front hook.   Still needs minor tweaking to ballast and I'm going to reset the fin to about one half degree left, as it has a slight natural left turn, rather than mucking about with trim tabs.  It won't trouble the record books unless it catches a thermal, but it flies nicely enough for me.

More good news.  Finally got to glide test (ran out of time for power tests) the Ju87 and it looks like it won't need any tail weight or if it does it will be a *tiny* amount which means a likely AUW somewhere about 37g which is only 2 or 3g over what I was hoping for.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

andytheflyer

  • Andytheex-flyer.....
Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #198 on: 30 July, 2020, 08:19:16 am »
Minimoa:  knew you'd crack it.  Well done.  Vid pls.  I think I know exactly how you feel.

Re: Flights of Fancy
« Reply #199 on: 30 July, 2020, 10:05:27 am »
Yay ! 

We need to see video of the Minimoa doing its thing properly.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.