Caravans and caravanning!

[SteveC]

We didn't stick with the Kangoo (although we still own it). Škoda Yeti (don't tell Ian) and a Lunar Clubman what is huge and not really a very sensible choice for first time caravaners, but it is nice).

[Kim]

I have seen the effects of a trailer wagging the dog and going for a tumble.  One of my nephews has lifelong injuries caused by the family caravan being caught by a passing hgv and going into a waggle.

I found myself following one of those on the motorway last week.  Kept well back until I could overtake in lane 3.   

[Diver300]

I have seen the effects of a trailer wagging the dog and going for a tumble.  One of my nephews has lifelong injuries caused by the family caravan being caught by a passing hgv and going into a waggle.

I found myself following one of those on the motorway last week.  Kept well back until I could overtake in lane 3.   

My opinion is that the only reason that caravans have the wheels bunched together under the centre of gravity, instead of one at each corner with the front ones steering, is to make reversing merely difficult rather than almost impossible. The cost is that the caravan's pitch and yaw has to be controlled by the car, and stability depends on odd things like where the centre of gravity is in the caravan. An extra couple of cases of beer at the back of a caravan can cause it to be unstable. There is also a lack of knowledge of how to stop the caravan swinging. (just brake)

It's my opinion that automating the nearly impossible reversing should be comparatively easy, but it would need caravan to car communication, so it won't happen, as there can be a big age difference between car and caravan.

To show how difficult it is to get changes on both cars and caravans, the 13 pin European towing socket took around 30 years to become common in the UK. Owners would buy a new car, the 13 pin socket would be fitted. The owner would get that changed to match the caravan. A few years later, a new caravan would arrive with a 13 pin socket, which was promptly cut off to match the old socket on the car. And so on. It was only about 10 years ago that adaptors became readily available.

[Russell]

Many years ago I was once involved in converting commercial vehicles and used to read 'Commercial Vehicles' or some such magazine and I think I can remember an article on caravan stability and it was found that by offsetting the wheels of the 'van a small amount fore and aft, ie no longer on the same axle plane, a turning motion was introduced which had a stabilising effect.

I guess it was too difficult (expensive) to produce so never happened.

[Joe.B]

Achieving the 85% ratio isn’t going to be the issue with our current car as it is a large estate, unfortunately it’s the power that concerns me. At least with respect to the sort of van Mrs B favours, for the kind of small caravan that I prefer power isn’t such an issue

My opinion is that the only reason that caravans have the wheels bunched together under the centre of gravity, instead of one at each corner with the front ones steering, is to make reversing merely difficult rather than almost impossible. The cost is that the caravan's pitch and yaw has to be controlled by the car, and stability depends on odd things like where the centre of gravity is in the caravan. An extra couple of cases of beer at the back of a caravan can cause it to be unstable. There is also a lack of knowledge of how to stop the caravan swinging. (just brake)

Although I don’t have much car/caravan experience I do have a lot of experience with tractors and large agricultural trailers as I lived next door to a farm as a child and still occasionally help out a bit during harvest. I can therefore say with certain knowledge that trailers of any kind behind a car are an absolute pig compered to a 16 tonner on the back of a tractor. I can get one of those through a gap barely wider than the trailer itself, can I do that with my little car trailer, no chance.  Pivot points right on (or nearly on) the rear axel are wonderful.   

Russell; I was pitched quite nearby to you in Nottingham last week, given that Mrs B and I have been discussing caravans since returning home I wish that I'd taken the opportunity to have a nosey at your Eriba now. They look like terrific little caravans, I think that I might even be able to keep one of those in our front garden without completely blocking all natural light from the living room.

[Russell]

Dash it.  I didn't think there were any other YACFers there, oh, apart from Tim Hall of course.  I saw a Passat there, dark blue???

Our Octavia has 140bhp, previously our Picasso had 110bhp.  The extra 30 is very nice to have but the Pic did tow it easily enough only running out of puff with 4 adults, two tandems and the the van on some welsh hills.  Both deisel though.

[neilrj]

See here for outfit matching:- https://towcar.info/

The 1400kg up a gradient is just that restarting on a gradient, and so is just a traction derived figure, and is for a ballasted flat deck trailer so doesn't relate at all well to a 1000 cu ft sail on a motorway viaduct in the winds, or buffeting from following empty car transporters. Stick to the 85% recommendation.
Oh and don't go balancing a heavy noseweight with heavy stuff at the rear, seesaws aren't renowned for stability, and snaking outcomes range from needing new underpants to needing new vehicles and/or needing the assistance of big red/white vehicles with pretty lights.

[Regulator]

I'm trying to convince Mr R to give an Eriba a try...

[mark]

See here for outfit matching:- https://towcar.info/

Your link seems to think my Honda Civic is suited to towing a 1200 kg trailer/caravan, while the owner's manual says it is not designed to tow a trailer/caravan, and doing so will void the warranty. The Civic in question is a US market hatchback, built in Swindon.

[neilrj]

See here for outfit matching:- https://towcar.info/

Your link seems to think my Honda Civic is suited to towing a 1200 kg trailer/caravan, while the owner's manual says it is not designed to tow a trailer/caravan, and doing so will void the warranty. The Civic in question is a US market hatchback, built in Swindon.

Its a euro website so won't know the finer details of American cars.

[Joe.B]

I’m quite pleased to report that Mrs B is now getting quite into the idea of a small caravan rather than a larger model as the engine size and physical size of the car required is the over-riding factor in the decision.

Our thinking is largely based on the fact that once purchased we expect this caravan to be long term project, whereas large powerful cars are likely to have a less certain future. It’s surely only a matter of time now before we see financial penalties on large polluting vehicles increase to the point of making them very unattractive to own.  A small 1000kg(ish) caravan should also (hopefully) still be viable in the electric future.

Getting back to the caravans, we’re both becoming quite fond of the Adria Action, though we intend to wait until we are able to view all our shortlisted vans once the trade fairs start up again in the spring before deciding.     

[Polar Bear]

Quite so Joe.  Apparently the very capable Skoda Enyaq ev has a 1500kg towing limit.

[Russell]

If I may offer a few words based on experience of small vans?

Most small vans have similar layouts in that the day settees/eating area doubles up as the bed for the night.  This means that you have to be prepared to make up and dismantle the bed and stow the bedding somewhere during the day.  You cannot guarentee that you will be able to eat outside every day.  This may be a PITA for some.  It was for us so we chose a van that has a separate dinette area.

You also need to be aware of user payload, that is the difference between the mass in running order (MIRO) and the maximum technical permitted laden mass (MTPLM).  Even some quite large vans have ridiculously low user payload figures.  It's worth checking the figures and noting that any options (even onboard water) will eat into the payload.  See if an axle upgrade is available.  A recommendation from the caravan organisations is to take it empty to a weighbridge to find out what payload is available.

R

[Ham]

I have seen the effects of a trailer wagging the dog and going for a tumble.  One of my nephews has lifelong injuries caused by the family caravan being caught by a passing hgv and going into a waggle.

I found myself following one of those on the motorway last week.  Kept well back until I could overtake in lane 3.   

Wasn't me, was it ?

Coming back  last Friday, on the (more gusty than I had reckoned) M42, I was trundling along, speed limiter set on 60 as is my wont, accelerating up to an indicated 64-ish to overtake when appropriate, overtaking a slower artic when a gust set up a waggle. The seatbelt tensioners decided we were going to crash, to tightened up just to make me feel good, and the light on the dash to say "you're wobbling" came on. Helpful. Lasted seemingly for ever, but by easing up and the good grace of the trucker, I managed to slow down and pull in. Overtaking was shelved for the duration.

[Polar Bear]

Squeaky bum time.

It was my sister, BiL and their two children about 20 years ago.  My nephew has minor but permanent life-changing disabilities as a result.

Although the M5 was blocked northbound for hours with fire services cutting the car apart, obviously lots of police and three ambulances as well as a helicopter lift for my nephew, the lorry which caused the accident was never identified.

[Marco Stefano]

After years of thinking about it (as is my wont), and after looking at many different ones at a dealer in Dorset, we have taken the plunge and put a deposit on a used Eriba Puck L. We thought we (2 of us) would just about okay with a Puck (and an awning made from an old Khyam tent porch), but I couldn't sit up in the Puck without my head being canted forward by the window blinds' rollers, and I have enough trouble with my neck. Pucks are weird; you sit in and look at all the storage and think, yes, we can fit in all we need; then you get out and look at the thing and it's tiny. Terrific packaging.

The Puck L's plate says 850 kg max weight so we think it will be okay with a Honda Civic 1.0T (which already tows a trailer, towing limit 1200 kg), but this car has all the engine braking of a '70s two stroke 250... Looking forward to it. The idea is to follow daughter's rugby to away matches and stay a couple of nights to see more of the country, plus other exploring (Scotland, Wales) and hopefully a longer French trip each year.

[Regulator]

Can anyone recommend a campsite around Rutland Water, preferably with electric hook up?

[Kim]

Wing Hall

[Pedal Castro]

Day 2 at Sandringham CCC site and it's a day of rain! First good poor weather test of our Kyham awning, and first trip with our new tow car, a Nissan X-trail T31.
https://twitter.com/PugnatorM/status/1437719068031737858?s=19

[Regulator]

Wing Hall

Ooh - that looks good!  ta!   

[Regulator]

We've decided to head to Kessingland this weekend.  The weather forecast looked slightly better than the one for Rutland.

[Woofage]

Can anyone recommend a campsite around Rutland Water, preferably with electric hook up?

The Paddock (C&CC Cert. site). Stayed there BH w/e. Very pleasant .

[Regulator]

Can anyone recommend a campsite around Rutland Water, preferably with electric hook up?

The Paddock (C&CC Cert. site). Stayed there BH w/e. Very pleasant .

Unfortunately, not taking people without their own sanitation at present.  It did look good.

[Jurek]

A several of years ago, whilst working for an Association with yellow liveried everything, I was driving a Dodge flat-bed car transporter with a car trailer in-tow.
The incident in question took place along the M25 on the descent from Reigate Hill.
The trailer decided that it was going to try and overtake the lorry towing it.
I cannot remember many incidents in the course of my life that left me thusly terrified as I tried to bring the entire shebang back under control.
I seem to remember using all three lanes of the motorway in addition to the hard shoulder (it was, thankfully, in the wee small hours of the night) to get it back on an even keel.
The take-home from this incident?
Never run the towing vehicle flat-out.
Always leave some power in reserve to pull yourself out of such situations.

[hatler]

A several of years ago, whilst working for an Association with yellow liveried everything, I was driving a Dodge flat-bed car transporter with a car trailer in-tow.
The incident in question took place along the M25 on the descent from Reigate Hill.
The trailer decided that it was going to try and overtake the lorry towing it.
I cannot remember many incidents in the course of my life that left me thusly terrified as I tried to bring the entire shebang back under control.
I seem to remember using all three lanes of the motorway in addition to the hard shoulder (it was, thankfully, in the wee small hours of the night) to get it back on an even keel.
The take-home from this incident?
Never run the towing vehicle flat-out.
Always leave some power in reserve to pull yourself out of such situations.

Comedy gold.