e-scooter trial

[toontra]

In response to a brief by RNIB, funded by Dott and HEIF, Salford Acoustics have created a series of sounds that underwent extensive testing in their renowned acoustic research facilities. The preliminary research results have indicated that improved noticeability of e-scooters using sound can be achieved without adding to noise pollution in cities.

The project is aiming for the roll-out of a future global standard on light electric vehicle technical standards and is continually seeking out collaborations with other partners to complement and enhance its research.

https://www.salford.ac.uk/news/new-funding-backs-progress-towards-universal-sound-e-scooters-part-safe-and-sound-project

It would seem they're intent on using a different sound from that of e-cars. Why?

So you know it's a scooter/e-bike approaching and not a car?  Just a guess.  Seems sensible to me as a cyclist - I like to have some idea what's coming, in the same way you can differentiate a car from, say, an artic (from the engine noise).

[Cudzoziemiec]

And the tyre and wind noise. Though I guess those not so much at scooter speeds.

[Adam]

The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety (PACTS) which is an independent charity that feeds into the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Transport Safety have produced a report recommending amongst other things, compulsory helmets and lights for scooters.

They make the case that scooters are different from bikes in that scooters can accelerate to top speed very quickly and that speed is faster than the average cycling speed, which coupled with smaller wheels make them more unstable and that if they crash/fall off, the evidence seems to indicate the rider will be more likely to be hurt compared with a cyclist.

https://www.micromobilitybiz.com/uk-government-urged-to-consider-mandatory-helmets-for-private-e-scooters-by-safety-charity/

Full report: https://www.pacts.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/PACTS-The-safety-of-private-e-scooters-in-the-UK-Final-Report.pdf

[Kim]

Is that going to be cycle helmets, or ones that actually work?

Not that it matters if your objective is to discourage people from using scooters.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Their average speed might be higher than cycling, particularly uphill, but their acceleration seems quite low.

[andrewc]

https://twitter.com/beardedjourno/status/1513840138324955147


Voi scooters being moved around Bristol by cargo bike        I've not seen them do this in Liverpool.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think I mentioned it a few pages ago. One of the normal drop-off points is just off to the left near the start of those roadworks (predicted to last six months!) but possibly they aren't using it now.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Scoot Trek: The Next Generation

“Designed with a bigger front wheel and a bigger thread depth, to help you ride safer, while the improved GPS makes parking in different zones even easier,” a YouTube video explained. “Signalling becomes second nature with high comfort handlebars and new 360 indicators. And the new integrated phone holder helps you navigate safely. It’s our most circular e-scooter yet, easier to repair than any previous model,” it added.

With a "slight" price rise (40%) to pay for the new design.

[fd3]

For helmets on scooters: you already see this on school runs because child+wheels=helmet.  How the fuck someone will land on their head from a scooter, no matter how fast or how much less secure they are than bikes, I really don’t know.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Almost exclusively with kids on kick scooters though. Virtually never on an e-scooter, whether hired or private.

[drossall]

For helmets on scooters: you already see this on school runs because child+wheels=helmet.  How the fuck someone will land on their head from a scooter, no matter how fast or how much less secure they are than bikes, I really don’t know.

It does seem rather obvious that the risks are the same as those when running

[Kim]

Kids on the school run wear helmets to protect their parents from being seen as a bad parent and/or themselves from breaking TEH SKOOL RULEZ.  Nothing to do with safety.

[MikeFromLFE]

Kids on the school run wear helmets to protect their parents from being seen as a bad parent and/or themselves from breaking TEH SKOOL RULEZ.  Nothing to do with safety.

My son must be a very, very bad man.

Neither of the two scooterist grandchildren wear plastic hats on their stupid little scooters (and I can't say I've seen other childers at their primary school wearing them either).
The school, and the adjacent secondary - in Nottinghamshire - don't seem to have a view on bicycle hats either.

[Joe.B]

Kids on the school run wear helmets to protect their parents from being seen as a bad parent and/or themselves from breaking TEH SKOOL RULEZ.  Nothing to do with safety.

The power of that phenomenon shouldn’t be underestimated.

I’m sceptical of some of the claims made by both the helmet evangelists and the helmet deniers and as a result use one probably 50% of the time. Despite this I often find myself telling little Joe.B that he should be using his helmet when riding to school.

[ian]

Yes, but the child could be hoisted into the sky by a giant seagull and dropped on its head.

(If you really want to see this peer pressure in action, find one of the few visibly pregnant women who dare to have a small glass of wine in public, and feel the radiating horror.)

[sg37409]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-61243033

The judge also ordered that Burnley pay court costs of £85 and a victim surcharge of £50.

I don’t know who the victim was in this case.   
Also, does this count as a drunk driving charge because it’s a powered “vehicle” ?

[Cudzoziemiec]

AIUI victim surcharge is applied to all fines. There doesn't have to be an actual victim in the particular case. I suppose the money is used to compensate victims of crime in general but I'm not sure. And in the UK it's illegal to be drunk in public even when not in charge of anything other than your bladder.

[Kim]

ObGuardian: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/27/i-know-theyre-exciting-but-calm-down-britains-love-hate-affair-with-the-e-scooter

[Cudzoziemiec]

“The illegal e-scooters are demonstrating a clear unmet transport need,” says Lorna Stevenson, an e-scooter researcher at the University of Westminster. “There are people using them who won’t know they’re illegal, but others who do, and still see it as worth the risk. The question is, what is the rest of the transport system not providing to these people?”

This is the key (and obvious) question which is being largely ignored.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think they're slightly overegging the CO2 aspect. Yes, it could be a boon, but it does depend on how the scooters are used. Their real benefit I feel is not in the way they replace other vehicles but in how they reshape journey patterns. The way you see, for instance, students going out in little fleets on a Saturday night. If I had a teenage daughter, I expect I'd far prefer she come home drunk on an e-scooter than in an also-drunk friend's car, on foot through a dodgy area (which is usually where the best clubs are), or an unlicensed taxi (please don't pretend these don't exist or even are unusual). Or the way people pick them up for semi-impromptu shopping trips. Or to get to the station for a train to (wherever). Without bus schedules or routes, without expensive taxis, faster than walking, easier than cycling. It's no wonder they arouse such a lot of status quo hate.

[Kim]

They seem to displace a lot of public transport trips, which is dubious on CO2 grounds.  But they can be massively more convenient than a bus, especially if your journey isn't radial, and in the evenings and at weekends.

Cycling advantages, basically.  Without the storage problems or the stigma of being sports equipment.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm not sure whether an electric scooter is really a carbon loss or win compared to a dino-combusting bus (which will be running anyway and use more or less the same number of dinos whether it runs empty or full and standing), but whatever the answer, fretting about it while ignoring the Ford or Hyundai on your drive is totally missing the point.

[sg37409]

AIUI victim surcharge is applied to all fines. There doesn't have to be an actual victim in the particular case. I suppose the money is used to compensate victims of crime in general but I'm not sure. And in the UK it's illegal to be drunk in public even when not in charge of anything other than your bladder.

The charge was drunk driving though.  That surprises me, I guess its because its a powered vehicle.

I think e-scooters are a carbon-win and its taxis who will be the main losers.   " The question is, what is the rest of the transport system not providing to these people?” This seems clear, and the ease, immediacy, cost and convenience  they provide is not something the rest of the transport system can do and I include bikes in that too. 

[peter simplex]

Cycling advantages, basically.  Without the storage problems or the stigma of being sports equipment.

...but producing a lot more obesity and landfill.

[Kim]

Cycling advantages, basically.  Without the storage problems or the stigma of being sports equipment.

...but producing a lot more obesity and landfill.

Not sure they necessarily produce any more landfill than BSOs, though the materials therein are more exotic.

Sure, they do nothing for obsesity, but neither do biros, USB flash drives or baby elephants.  It's hardly grounds for not legalising them.  I don't subscribe to the CTC argument that signifcant numbers of people using electric scooters would otherwise walk or cycle.  They'd use public transport, or not make the journey.