e-scooter trial

[toontra]

I don't subscribe to the CTC argument that signifcant numbers of people using electric scooters would otherwise walk or cycle.  They'd use public transport, or not make the journey.

That's a problem for the viability of public transport then.  If it looses a significant proportion of its users (presumably the younger demographic) it would probably lead to cutbacks affecting those who rely on it - the elderly and less adventurous.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Compared to using public transport, taxis or getting lifts, or indeed not going anywhere, e-scooters probably do very marginally help with obesity simply because there is a little effort involved (such as kicking off and maintaining balance) and more so through the mental effects of getting out there.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't subscribe to the CTC argument that signifcant numbers of people using electric scooters would otherwise walk or cycle.  They'd use public transport, or not make the journey.

That's a problem for the viability of public transport then.  If it looses a significant proportion of its users (presumably the younger demographic) it would probably lead to cutbacks affecting those who rely on it - the elderly and less adventurous.

That's a good point. Though again the effect is probably minor compared to covidophobia and, of course, driving.

[MikeFromLFE]

Cycling advantages, basically.  Without the storage problems or the stigma of being sports equipment.

...but producing a lot more obesity and landfill.

.  I don't subscribe to the CTC argument that signifcant numbers of people using electric scooters would otherwise walk or cycle.  They'd use public transport, or not make the journey.

I don't subscribe to that either, but a personal anecdote:
I replaced my proper motorbike with a 28mph e-moped (registered & insured). I'm now much more likely to take local trips (less than say 5 miles) on that than I am to cycle, and none of those trips can be done by public transport.

I suspect personal e-transport will reduce urban bicycle miles.

[peter simplex]

  I don't subscribe to the CTC argument that signifcant numbers of people using electric scooters would otherwise walk or cycle.  They'd use public transport, or not make the journey.

I tend to agree with the CTC.
I doubt these scooterized journeys would have been made by bus/tram. Perhaps by Uber, another dead end, along with electric vehicles in general, which must not be criticised. 
What's the life expectancy of these electric scooters? 

[Kim]

I suspect personal e-transport will reduce urban bicycle miles.

Unless it makes the road environment subjectively safer to cycle on.  Possibly by reducing car traffic, but more likely through a safety-in-numbers effect.  Potentially it could create demand for cycle infrastructure, but authorities don't care about that.

[Kim]

What's the life expectancy of these electric scooters?

That's a good question.  I'm sure for the cheap ones it's 5 minutes after the warranty expires due to structural cheese or cost-cutting of the battery management (like with off-brand power tool batteries), but  I'd like to see stats - including vandalism - from one of the hire scheme operators (their scooters being properly engineered, and automatically tracked).

I wonder if private e-scooters benefit from being stored indoors in a way that BSOs generally aren't?  They're certainly easier to store, and I expect most people would bring them indoors for charging anyway

[Cudzoziemiec]

Safety in numbers is the positive Voi-effect I feel. E-scooters are bicycle sized, move at more or less bicycle speed, and just as importantly they move in a bike-like way – filtering, swerving, nipping out at left-turn junctions, being obstructed by parked vehicles – think "Pob on a BSO" rather than "roadie in Castelli" or "road-toughened tourist/audaxer". At the moment, most drivers are still giving a lot of room, which I feel has fed through to more clearance being given to bikes too. I reckon this is partly because they look vulnerable and partly because so many of the riders are students and similar demographic who clearly lack traffic experience, so this might not last as the user base broadens, which it surely will, but the similar movement effects should continue.

[drossall]

+1. Expecting the unexpected is probably the attitude most helpful to cyclists that anyone could engender, at least when the expected is sometimes "nothing smaller than a Mini".

[peter simplex]

pic=116116.msg2718956#msg2718956 date=1651254248]
Safety in numbers is the positive Voi-effect I feel. E-scooters are bicycle sized, move at more or less bicycle speed, and just as importantly they move in a bike-like way – filtering, swerving, nipping out at left-turn junctions.....

Er no.
In cities where separate cycle tracks take most of the cycle flow, e-scooters [and e-bikes for that matter], often riding against the flow, are a nightmare for most cyclists who are not charging [sic] around at 25mph plus.   File mainly under   Pointless Power-assisted Mobility*

*Audax might be classed as pointless food-assisted mobility too.  Guilty m'lud.

[Cudzoziemiec]

That might be true, but does the UK have any cities where separated cycle tracks take most of the cycle flow? Apart from MK and possibly London, I don't think so. And that could probably be extended worldwide apart from northern Europe, maybe Paris and presumably China. I wonder if e-scooters are available in North Korea yet?

[Kim]

Birmingham's one decent cycleway is a harmonious mixture of cyclists of all types, personal electric mobility users, runners, sk8er d00ds and the occasional wheelchair user.  For the most part, pedestrians keep to the footway, which is refreshing when you're used to shared-use bollocks.

When the harmony breaks down it's usually because someone in a motor vehicle has done something stupid, or because an oblivious group of users (usually teenagers on scooters or bikes, occasionally family groups cycling with young children) haven't left anywhere for oncoming traffic to go.

[tom_e]

E-scooters are bicycle sized, move at more or less bicycle speed, and just as importantly they move in a bike-like way – filtering, swerving, nipping out at left-turn junctions, being obstructed by parked vehicles – think "Pob on a BSO" rather than "roadie in Castelli" or "road-toughened tourist/audaxer".

I was cycling through Cambridge late last night and have to agree with this - a substantial number of e-scooters and cyclists behaving with usual low-level twattishness.  Through red lights, on and off pavements.  Similar fraction and numbers of both scootists and cyclists?  Plenty of decently behaved examples of both too.

Ordinary POBs, like you say.  Couldn't see any reason to believe they were worse.

[Kim]

Yep.  People take the piss to the level that their means of transport allows.  E-scooters are a lot like bicycles in speed and size, so they do the same sort of things as BloodyCyclists.

[hubner]

Compared to using public transport, taxis or getting lifts, or indeed not going anywhere, e-scooters probably do very marginally help with obesity simply because there is a little effort involved (such as kicking off and maintaining balance) and more so through the mental effects of getting out there.

Public transport very often does involve a lot of walking; from home to station/stop, changing trains, platform to platform, up and down stairs, station/stop to destination.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I suppose that is why public transport is classed as 'active travel'. Or maybe that's for a different reason, I'm not sure.

[PeteB99]

Scoot by shooting

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/electric-scooter-escape-liverpool-gunman-23840547

[citoyen]

I suspect personal e-transport will reduce urban bicycle miles.

Possibly, but I think the bigger goal is reducing urban car miles, and it will hopefully help towards that too.

It's things like those little trips to Tesco for a few bits and pieces - for me, that means cycling back up the hill laden with shopping. And often that sounds like too much effort, so I'll take the car. But having an e-bike means I'm much more likely to consider that as a realistic alternative to driving.

Also eg, the e-bike meant the other day I was able to nip out to the pharmacy to pick up my prescription during my lunch break, and get back to my desk in good time without being drenched in sweat.

[Adam]

Legislation to follow later this year in a Transport Bill.

https://bikebiz.com/e-scooter-legislation-to-be-included-in-transport-bill-government-confirms/

[Cudzoziemiec]

“Safety will always be our top priority and our trials are helping us to better understand the benefits of properly regulated, safety-tested e-scooters and their impact on public space.”

Does this mean homologation or some sort of MoT system? Or something else entirely?

[DuncanM]

“Safety will always be our top priority and our trials are helping us to better understand the benefits of properly regulated, safety-tested e-scooters and their impact on public space.”

Does this mean homologation or some sort of MoT system? Or something else entirely?

I bet the people who wrote it don't even know.

[Cudzoziemiec]

They will most likely announce something then fail to implement it.

[Mr Larrington]

They will most likely announce something then fail to implement it.

Only after more handbrake turns than an episode of “The Dukes Of Hazzard” though.

[Cudzoziemiec]

No way Johnson could exit a car by climbing out the side window!

[graculus]

I see Johnson more as Boss Hogg.