Author Topic: Pavement parking issue  (Read 4581 times)

ian

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Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #50 on: 26 April, 2021, 03:29:49 pm »
I think he'd failed the attitude test so comprehensively they'd have given him as many points as possible. Plus it was an obviously stupid place to park (corner of a narrow lane junction, atop a 25% hill, blocking the entire pavement and forcing pedestrians to walk and drivers to drive around an entirely blind corner). Now has double-yellows (a process that took three years).
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Regulator

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Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #51 on: 26 April, 2021, 03:30:27 pm »
I'm not sure that's correct - this from our county council website..

"It may be a criminal offence for causing an obstruction or damage and would be a matter for the police.

Section 28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - wilfully causing an obstruction to any public footpath or public thoroughfare."

So I'd read that as parking to obstruct the footway is a Police matter.


The only parts of s.28 of the 1847 Act still in force are in relation to dogs:

Quote
Every person who suffers to be at large any unmuzzled ferocious dog, or sets on or urges any dog or other animal to attack, worry, or put in fear any person or animal:

and 'riding/driving furiously':

Quote
Every person who rides or drives furiously any horse or carriage, or drives furiously any cattle:

The rest have been done away with over the years, much of it (including the bit about obstructing pavements) via the Deregulation Act 2015*.   Lots of council web-sites quote out of date legislation (including our local District Council) I'm afraid.


I think we have probably worked out the guidance is almost as clear as some of the covid stuff

I've contacted local councillors who with local elections looming will either ignore as too busy or jump on to try and impress me

Thank for everyone's help on this. Oh and ironically where I go in Germany there is absolutely no pavement parking and you need to have a permit for most the spaces


As a councillor, I know parking is one of the most complained about things - and it's the thing we can do the least about.  Even where police do have powers (e.g. under s.5 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005) they are often reluctant to do anything as they don't see it as a priority.

We've tried to wrest parking enforcement from the police in South Cambridgeshire but they won't hand it over (the city council had better luck) - nor will they enforce it.




*Another of Pig-Botherer Cameron's jolly wheezes, described as "An Act to make provision for the reduction of burdens resulting from legislation for businesses or other organisations or for individuals; make provision for the repeal of legislation which no longer has practical use; make provision about the exercise of regulatory functions; and for connected purposes".
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #52 on: 26 April, 2021, 04:32:50 pm »
Ian, do you think they'd give him six points for two cups of tea?  Might be worth a try!
:-D

Mr Larrington

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Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #53 on: 26 April, 2021, 06:15:24 pm »
Ian, do you think they'd give him six points for two cups of tea?  Might be worth a try!

Give the bizzies a bottle of Scotch and they'd probably do him for witchcraft :demon:
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Davef

Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #54 on: 26 April, 2021, 10:00:26 pm »
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).

Seriously, I didn't make it up, I copied and pasted it from Surrey Police (who aren't in London). And more so, when I dibbed the driver who parked on the corner opposite my house, the police spoke to the registered owner (him) and when he ignored them, issued him a fine and three points. I know this because I made them a cup of tea and they told me.
I suspect it was “leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place” rather than (or in addition to) wilful or unreasonable obstruction.

barakta

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Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #55 on: 26 April, 2021, 10:37:11 pm »
I'm not sure that's correct - this from our county council website..

"It may be a criminal offence for causing an obstruction or damage and would be a matter for the police.

Section 28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - wilfully causing an obstruction to any public footpath or public thoroughfare."

So I'd read that as parking to obstruct the footway is a Police matter.


The only parts of s.28 of the 1847 Act still in force are in relation to dogs:
<snippy snip>

The rest have been done away with over the years, much of it (including the bit about obstructing pavements) via the Deregulation Act 2015*.   Lots of council web-sites quote out of date legislation (including our local District Council) I'm afraid.

Not quite true. A disabled woman recently used Section 53 of this act to get a taxi driver prosecuted in the Magistrates court for refusing to transport her. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-43920596 </pedant>

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #56 on: 27 April, 2021, 06:40:48 am »
I'm not sure that's correct - this from our county council website..

"It may be a criminal offence for causing an obstruction or damage and would be a matter for the police.

Section 28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - wilfully causing an obstruction to any public footpath or public thoroughfare."

So I'd read that as parking to obstruct the footway is a Police matter.


The only parts of s.28 of the 1847 Act still in force are in relation to dogs:
<snippy snip>

The rest have been done away with over the years, much of it (including the bit about obstructing pavements) via the Deregulation Act 2015*.   Lots of council web-sites quote out of date legislation (including our local District Council) I'm afraid.

Not quite true. A disabled woman recently used Section 53 of this act to get a taxi driver prosecuted in the Magistrates court for refusing to transport her. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-43920596 </pedant>

That’s s.53 - not s.28.  There are only two clauses of s.28 still in force.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #57 on: 27 April, 2021, 08:09:04 am »
Re the op, is there space on the drive for the blocking car to pull forward and not be an obstruction, or do they need a shorter car?

Also an observation: near me there’s a section of pavement that the council have painted car parking spaces on, in a half on the pavement half on the road way. This isn’t an ancient tradition that’s being continued, it’s outside Homebase. There’s a lot of noise about how hard it is to park in town, but really that’s mostly how hard it is to park right outside the shop, for 4 hours, for almost no money.

Which reminds me of the time I suggested to a taxi driver outside Brighton station that he get off the pavement as there’s no need to park on it here. He got quite cross.

Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #58 on: 27 April, 2021, 09:08:35 am »
No the front of the car is close to the porch of the house but just isn't room and it's not a big car. There is space next to it on the drive for a car to be off the road but its like everyone a two car household

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #59 on: 27 April, 2021, 09:37:33 am »
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).

Seriously, I didn't make it up, I copied and pasted it from Surrey Police (who aren't in London). And more so, when I dibbed the driver who parked on the corner opposite my house, the police spoke to the registered owner (him) and when he ignored them, issued him a fine and three points. I know this because I made them a cup of tea and they told me.
I suspect it was “leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place” rather than (or in addition to) wilful or unreasonable obstruction.

It's what they told me and the car disappeared in a puff of grump. There's double-yellows now and they seem to have stopped the problem. In my experience, if there's a space left anywhere, modern Homo driveverywhericus will park a car on it. We were walking through the back end of Dorking at the weekend, and there's a small estate, as usual, all the front drives have been converted into crappy driveways and still, all the green verges along the road, verges that might have added some colour and life the roads, were covered by (and churned up) by cars. It's something we have sleepwalked into. Front gardens shouldn't be driveways. Green spaces shouldn't be parking spaces. It's a gross social failure.

And yeah, when they turn their nice front gardens into a slab of greasy concrete, it's still sometimes not big enough for an entire car, plus they get another couple of cars, which don't fit in the space, so they dump the third across the pavement at the end of their drive, the bit of parking that was previously available to anyone, but now annexed, along with the pavement.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Davef

Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #60 on: 27 April, 2021, 10:05:13 am »
If it obstructs the entire pavement, call the police, it's a problem for them.

I'd ban all and any parking on pavements (and anywhere that isn't a road and driveway) tomorrow. There's no excuse and it's simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it isn't (other than in London).  Police can only do something if they actually see the car being driven onto the pavement (in which case there is a relevant offence under the Road Traffic Act which can be used).

Seriously, I didn't make it up, I copied and pasted it from Surrey Police (who aren't in London). And more so, when I dibbed the driver who parked on the corner opposite my house, the police spoke to the registered owner (him) and when he ignored them, issued him a fine and three points. I know this because I made them a cup of tea and they told me.
I suspect it was “leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place” rather than (or in addition to) wilful or unreasonable obstruction.

It's what they told me and the car disappeared in a puff of grump. There's double-yellows now and they seem to have stopped the problem. In my experience, if there's a space left anywhere, modern Homo driveverywhericus will park a car on it. We were walking through the back end of Dorking at the weekend, and there's a small estate, as usual, all the front drives have been converted into crappy driveways and still, all the green verges along the road, verges that might have added some colour and life the roads, were covered by (and churned up) by cars. It's something we have sleepwalked into. Front gardens shouldn't be driveways. Green spaces shouldn't be parking spaces. It's a gross social failure.

And yeah, when they turn their nice front gardens into a slab of greasy concrete, it's still sometimes not big enough for an entire car, plus they get another couple of cars, which don't fit in the space, so they dump the third across the pavement at the end of their drive, the bit of parking that was previously available to anyone, but now annexed, along with the pavement.
You can get fined but you can’t get the bonus points for obstruction, but leaving a vehicle dangerously is easier as it is more of a matter of opinion. Obstruction needs someone to actually be obstructed unreasonably.

Re: Pavement parking issue
« Reply #61 on: 27 April, 2021, 12:00:48 pm »
Actually rather impressed my local councillor just rang and we are meeting tomorrow to discuss having already been along road and seen the situation. He advised reporting it robpolice and keeping photos and getting an incident number each time