Author Topic: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool  (Read 1517 times)

Not fast & rarely furious

tweeting occasional in(s)anities as andrewxclark

Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: 29 June, 2021, 11:36:29 pm »
Did they forget to say smidsy?
Strange things are afoot at the circle K.


Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: 19 October, 2021, 11:01:00 pm »
That's truly shit. A loophole for anyone prosecuted for any traffic violation in Scotland.

Three words get you off - "I can't remember."

Dear god.
Rust never sleeps

FifeingEejit

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Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: 20 October, 2021, 01:05:28 am »
It feels like the PF fucked up by only bringing the dangerous driving charge, there's usually also an alternative charge offered, but ive not read properly.

If they haven't then theres just been precedence set for any charge to be found not guilty/proven (technically the same thing but...) so I'm off to Lob ice axes at traffic and rather than try a hair brained attempt at diminished responsibility will just claim I have no memory of it.

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Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #5 on: 20 October, 2021, 07:31:34 am »
Veering across the road in a manner consistent with losing consciousness, if a lie is a plausible one.
Not sure the ice axe throwing is going to swing the jury the same way, particularly if you post about it on the internet first.

Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #6 on: 20 October, 2021, 08:03:03 am »
And if she was losing consciousness then her licence is revoked until such time as a medical examination is done.
Rust never sleeps

Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #7 on: 20 October, 2021, 08:16:01 am »
And if she was losing consciousness then her licence is revoked until such time as a medical examination is done.

Indeed. We were watching an episode of "Ambulane" last night, and the first incident was a woman in her late '70's, who lsot control of her car, but fortunately hit nothing other than railings after swerving across the road. She was quite conscious and chatty when the ambulanbe crew arrived, but had no memory of negotiating the roundabout 100m up the road. She really couldn't remember.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #8 on: 20 October, 2021, 09:26:26 am »
I don't think, from the story, anyway, that was any actual claim that she lost consciousness. She simply didn't remember the incident, which on face value is plausible, we often don't remember stressful events.

I don't, to be honest, know why that is an excuse, but that's the weird nature of how we treat drivers. You would expect to walk out of court if you'd not remember stabbing someone. That said, I always assume the court heard more evidence than was recorded in the story. Still, it's not encouraging that she was allegedly ok to make a phone call straight afterwards. It's not reported if the police checked her phone records for the time of the accident or if there were medical reports. The prosecution seems a bit half-hearted. Still, she cried, so all good.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

FifeingEejit

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Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #9 on: 20 October, 2021, 09:41:00 am »
Yes everything I've seems says she didn't remeber the incident and if that alone can be used to cast enough doubt to prevent a guilty verdict then my rant stands.

It seems to me the PF could have had careless and unfit charges submitted as back ups as they often do.

That said I know at least 2 people who have been found not proven of stuff where lesser charges were not prepared, including one that resulted in death, the cctv evidence was enough that in the scuffle either the deceased was pushed out the way in defence or he was thumped and thus killed by the thumping. So the question to the Jury was essentially down to whether it was an assault or it wasn't, they decided it wasn't.
The cctv evidence aparently quite clearly showed the deceased charge towards the pusher, and the pusher shove the guy back, who then fell backwards and whacked his head off the pavey.

It's a bit weird following a case in the local media who only reveal the defendants identity at verdict.

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Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #10 on: 20 October, 2021, 01:20:49 pm »
It feels like the PF fucked up by only bringing the dangerous driving charge

I don't understand. Surely the act, whether conscious or not, WAS dangerous. Perhaps all the more dangerous if she genuinely ::-) has no recollection of big chunks of time.

FifeingEejit

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Re: Driver sentenced to 11 years for killing 2 cyclists in Liverpool
« Reply #11 on: 20 October, 2021, 01:26:12 pm »
It feels like the PF fucked up by only bringing the dangerous driving charge

I don't understand. Surely the act, whether conscious or not, WAS dangerous. Perhaps all the more dangerous if she genuinely ::-) has no recollection of big chunks of time.
A case of dangerous driving was not proven, it's not uncommon for a case of careless and/or inconsiderate to be provided too, so that the Jury can consider all 3 so that should a lesser charge be proven when the greater is not the defendant does not just walk free cleared of the dangerous charge with no recourse to try them for the possible lesser charges.

The other way it can pan out is the defendent pleads guilty to the lesser charge and is then either the crown accept that or press on for the greater charge.

That there appears not to be lesser charges tried suggests the Crown was convinced they had a strong enough case for the dangerous driving charge not to increase the costs of the longer 2/3 charge trial.

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