Author Topic: ethical conundrums  (Read 1753 times)

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
ethical conundrums
« on: 12 November, 2021, 09:01:50 pm »
Is it wrong, when slow swimmers push out ahead of me when I'm turning, to maybe kick a bit hard when I pass them and fill their stupid faces with the finest chlorinated water?

Asking for a friend.
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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #1 on: 12 November, 2021, 09:17:36 pm »
If you're in the 0.5m kids' pool, yes, it is very wrong and their dad will steal your trunks and throw you off the 10m board.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #2 on: 12 November, 2021, 10:05:16 pm »
If you are happy that when you get slower the faster swimmers will do the same to you, then carry on.

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #3 on: 12 November, 2021, 10:25:06 pm »
Why should they not push off while you are turning?  They're under no obligation to wait for you to go first (you are behind them at the time, never mind how many laps you may be ahead).  Why should they interrupt their progress, which though sedate, is as hard work for them as yours presumably is for you, judging by the bad-tempered response.  Rather, it's the faster swimmer's obligation to overtake a slower swimmer with consideration since, generally speaking, it's only the quicker swimmer (fast may be a figment, for all I know) who knows where both of you are.  Definitely a trunkless jettison from the 10 metre for you!

Basil

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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #4 on: 12 November, 2021, 10:30:01 pm »
How dare other people use your pool.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Jaded

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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #5 on: 12 November, 2021, 10:53:22 pm »
Chlorinated water?

Surely you are wild swimming, with tidy hair ???
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cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #6 on: 12 November, 2021, 10:58:56 pm »
Is it wrong when slower people pass you in a supermarket aisle while you pick up your houmous, to give them a nudge into the freezer bin as you overtake them?
Reasonably Inconsiderate

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #7 on: 12 November, 2021, 11:00:24 pm »
Is it wrong when slower people pass you in a supermarket aisle while you pick up your houmous, to give them a nudge into the freezer bin as you overtake them?
Only if you're carrying an emu.

Basil

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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #8 on: 12 November, 2021, 11:05:47 pm »
Only if you're carrying an emu.

 ;D ;D
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #9 on: 13 November, 2021, 03:16:06 pm »
How dare other people use your pool.
Maybe ian should pee in it to mark his territory.  Maybe the red dye story is true, thobuts.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #10 on: 13 November, 2021, 07:28:11 pm »
Is it wrong when slower people pass you in a supermarket aisle while you pick up your houmous, to give them a nudge into the freezer bin as you overtake them?

I'm not picking up houmous though, I've checked and there's none at the ends.

Pool etiquette is that you let faster swimmers go first at the end, that's what I do. Seriously, if there was a mako shark in there, are you going to not let it go first? You'd be an idiot if you didn't because it's going to eat you feet first.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #11 on: 13 November, 2021, 07:34:20 pm »
With respect, who on earth decided what pool etiquette is?

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #12 on: 13 November, 2021, 07:46:17 pm »
To assess they are slower they must have already swum a length.  To be turning first they must be ahead of you.  Don’t do a stupid pass at the turn in a MGIF effort. Wait and do a clean wide overtake further down the lane.

PaulF

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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #13 on: 13 November, 2021, 07:52:42 pm »
With respect, who on earth decided what pool etiquette is?

Who decided what any etiquette is? It evolves rather than being written by a committee.

In the original example it’s just common sense/courtesy.  If there’s a faster swimmer next to you there’s no reason to push ahead of them at the turn; you’ll both enjoy the swim more if the slower one holds back.
 

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #14 on: 13 November, 2021, 07:53:11 pm »
To assess they are slower they must have already swum a length.  To be turning first they must be ahead of you.  Don’t do a stupid pass at the turn in a MGIF effort. Wait and do a clean wide overtake further down the lane.
That does sound remarkably like good practice for overtaking a cyclist. But I am not a swimmer and maybe it's nothing like that at all (whateven does "push out" mean?)
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #15 on: 13 November, 2021, 08:00:12 pm »
This translates to the most hated habits of death metal pilots, are you sorry you posted this pathetic rant Ian?

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #16 on: 13 November, 2021, 08:10:46 pm »
This translates to the most hated habits of death metal pilots, are you sorry you posted this pathetic rant Ian?

I think you know the answer to this without me writing it.

(I didn't really intend this to be serious, but generally – and I've been a swimmer since Queen Victoria was on the throne – you hold back at the ends to let faster swimmers go rather than force them to overtake you – which indeed, is a lot less hassle for everyone. I'm not super-fast and I'll do it for those faster than me. Most people do*. There's just a couple who pull out without slowing or mostly even looking. I'm not saying that they should receive the death penalty for this, just that it ought to be on the table when judgement comes about.)

*in case of doubt, it says precisely this on the lane sign.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #17 on: 13 November, 2021, 08:14:00 pm »
With respect, who on earth decided what pool etiquette is?

Who decided what any etiquette is? It evolves rather than being written by a committee.

In the original example it’s just common sense/courtesy.  If there’s a faster swimmer next to you there’s no reason to push ahead of them at the turn; you’ll both enjoy the swim more if the slower one holds back.
 

I always presumed that folk keep to the edge of the lane and that overtaking happens down the middle.  That's how it seems to have always worked in lane sessions that I have taken part in over the decades.

I don't see why somebody might expect another to defer to them.

Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #18 on: 13 November, 2021, 09:41:09 pm »
At all the pools I've been to in the last few years, there is a real etiquette especially for lane swimming.

Signs at the end of each lane, indicating fast or slow lane, and whether to swim clockwise or anti clockwise.

If you go in the fast lane, it's pretty much front crawl only.

Over taking is done down the middle, and if you're going to overtake someone, you have to do it quickly, and then move back to the outside of the lane.

It is like the tour de commute, you're not really racing but you are racing, if you're in the fast lane, you're not going to wait behind someone slower.  However, if you're going to overtake someone, you've got to stay ahead of them for a reasonable number of lengths before stopping for a breather.

People who go to the fast lane when it's empty to slowly swim up and down doing breast stroke should return to the slower lanes when someone fast enters the lane.

The unwritten etiquette of the pool is as immutable as the written rules (no running, no bombing, no petting, no cut off jeans)

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #19 on: 13 November, 2021, 09:51:05 pm »
Rules or no rules, I'm always up for heavy petting.

Admittedly for many years, I assumed that meant bathing a big shaggy dog. Though my wife may have commented that looked precisely what someone had regularly done in the women's showers of the Cally Pool.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Pingu

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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #20 on: 13 November, 2021, 09:57:16 pm »
Bombing. You know you want to.

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #21 on: 13 November, 2021, 10:04:24 pm »
Shock and awe.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Karla

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Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #22 on: 13 November, 2021, 10:21:58 pm »
Fear not Ian, you can get your revenge later, and justice delayed is merely justice amplified and served cold enough to give gangrenous limbs.  These pool hoggers are exactly the same people who stand on the left on the tube escalators, so all you need to do is to wait until 8:30 the best morning before accidentally pushing the erstwhile swimmer off-balance as you pass.  Their demise will be swift, their bounces down to platform level will be cheered by every frustrated commuter they pass on the way, and not only will you get to work quicker, you'll have an empty swimming pool that evening.

RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #23 on: 13 November, 2021, 11:46:38 pm »
Ethical conundrum!
Mine is I have been told that someone I know uses a local food bank as they are on benefits (which I'm fine with) but then puts the money aside that they would have used for food to pay for a planned family holiday cruise to America later next year >:(
As someone who donates what they can (a fairly small amount) to various homeless and refugee charities to help others, this really pisses me off!!
Am I wrong in feeling like this, or should I just be like "someone will always play the system" and get over it.

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: ethical conundrums
« Reply #24 on: 14 November, 2021, 06:56:57 am »
I think your last sentence is the best option.

We know that there are some benefit cheats, but the vast majority of benefit recipients find them absolutely vital and they should be fully supported in this way. The Daily Mail finds the 1% of benefit cheats and shouts from the rooftop about them, the 99% are ignored.

And of course the 95% of billionaires who creatively adjust their money to avoid taxes are just being clever. Nothing to see here.

I guess your people are probably not living the spirit of the thing but they are a tiny minority. Also this holiday money might end up being used for something else (replacement washing machine, etc) if the need arose, and that would be considered a fair use.
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