Author Topic: Stripped threads  (Read 1747 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Stripped threads
« on: 13 April, 2022, 09:56:46 pm »


This evening I stripped the threads of both the bottom bolts that hold my handlebars to the stem. The stem is a Deda zero 1, and seems pretty soft aluminium.

This is the 6th or moreth time I've done the bolts up. Each time with a torque wrench to the torque labelled on the device.

What have I done wrong ? What can I do to make sure I don't strip the threads on the replacement?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #1 on: 13 April, 2022, 10:01:10 pm »
Are you doing them up because they're working loose, or because you're adjusting the handlebars or similar?

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #2 on: 13 April, 2022, 10:03:50 pm »
Are you doing them up because they're working loose, or because you're adjusting the handlebars or similar?

To swap handlebars or when adjusting the bars. They haven't worked lose.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

C-3PO

  • Human-cyborg relations
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #3 on: 13 April, 2022, 11:18:53 pm »
Masters.

We never, ever strip threads.

But if we do, we do it with the utmost sensitivity, care and surprise, and with ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the Roger.

Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #4 on: 14 April, 2022, 12:34:03 am »
Should you wish to salvage the stem, then I can think of two options.

Fit stainless steel helicoils where the threads are stripped. You'll need a helicoil fitting kit for this.

Tap the hole out with a slightly larger thread size and fit a bolt whose thread matches the newly tapped one.

A stripped 5mm threaded hole is just the right size to take a 6mm tap.
I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #5 on: 14 April, 2022, 12:41:36 am »
Should you wish to salvage the stem, then I can think of two options.

Fit stainless steel helicoils where the threads are stripped. You'll need a helicoil fitting kit for this.

Tap the hole out with a slightly larger thread size and fit a bolt whose thread matches the newly tapped one.

A stripped 5mm threaded hole is just the right size to take a 6mm tap.

Thanks. I'm not to fussed about rescuing this stem. A new one should arrive sometime around lunch. My main concern is not doing the same to the new one..

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #6 on: 14 April, 2022, 12:48:53 am »
Do you foresee having to make more adjustments?  Because if you've worked out your handlebar position, it doesn't seem likely to be a problem.

(I think if I were going to be mucking around with the position regularly, I'd want something that didn't rely on aluminium threads.  Would a longer bolt and a nylock work?)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #7 on: 14 April, 2022, 01:25:28 am »
Do you foresee having to make more adjustments?  Because if you've worked out your handlebar position, it doesn't seem likely to be a problem.

(I think if I were going to be mucking around with the position regularly, I'd want something that didn't rely on aluminium threads.  Would a longer bolt and a nylock work?)

It's a new handle bar going on. So there may be some fettling in coming weeks.

And if I ever fly with the bike. Or otherwise break it down for travel...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #8 on: 14 April, 2022, 06:29:31 am »
[quote author=quixoticgeek link=topic=122778.msg2715692#msg2715692 date=1649895928
And if I ever fly with the bike. Or otherwise break it down for travel...
J

Carry a spare one?

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #9 on: 14 April, 2022, 07:10:11 am »
Buy a torque wrench in the right range (bar clamps are usually in the 5Nm range) and ensure the threads are clean and lubricated.  I know torque settings for automotive applications are for dry threads, but all bike threads need either lube or threadlock to prevent them corroding into place.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #10 on: 14 April, 2022, 07:13:19 am »
Buy a torque wrench in the right range (bar clamps are usually in the 5Nm range) and ensure the threads are clean and lubricated.  I know torque settings for automotive applications are for dry threads, but all bike threads need either lube or threadlock to prevent them corroding into place.

From the OP
Quote
Each time with a torque wrench to the torque labelled on the device.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #11 on: 14 April, 2022, 07:51:51 am »
That torque wrench needs testing with a known weight.  Something is clearly wrong.

My rule of thumb method for this kind of bolt is:

1. Tighten with the "wrong" end of the allen key, the one that gives least leverage
2. Then half a turn with the "right" side

I have never stripped a thread on a bike, at least not that I can remember.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #12 on: 14 April, 2022, 09:21:39 am »
This is the 6th or moreth time I've done the bolts up. Each time with a torque wrench to the torque labelled on the device.
Thread preparation?  The recommended torque will apply only when the threads are as supplied. 
You have a knackered stem to play with, try the good threads with a dry/threadlocked/greased bolt and see how much tighter you can get them as the lubrication increases.
Apologies for stating the obvious - The other torque consideration in engagement, it is critical on a stem that the bolts are tightened evenly, the recommended torque assumes the bolt has enough thread engaged.   
 

Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #13 on: 14 April, 2022, 09:26:51 am »
And if I ever fly with the bike. Or otherwise break it down for travel...
J
If that's a fairly frequent scenario, I'd be tempted to use a locking spacer on the stem and remove the stem from the steerer for travel.  Far easier to bodge that end of a stem than the bar end.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #14 on: 14 April, 2022, 09:28:03 am »
Another possibility is that the components are made from the best Chinese fermented milk solids.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #15 on: 14 April, 2022, 09:29:13 am »
If that's a fairly frequent scenario, I'd be tempted to use a locking spacer on the stem and remove the stem from the steerer for travel.  Far easier to bodge that end of a stem than the bar end.

Actually not.

Cos I have the Di2 battery in the head tube. In order to adjust the stem I have to use a stem plug to get it all clamped down in place, Tighten the bolts holding the stem to the steerer, then remove the plug, insert the di2 battery, tighten that bolt. Ride away.

It's a right pain. I don't like doing it if I can avoid it.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #16 on: 14 April, 2022, 09:48:49 am »
Torque specs printed on bike parts are produced with a random number generator and thus using a torque wrench on them is futile.

Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #17 on: 14 April, 2022, 11:23:10 am »
Two things occur to me;

1 You are in Nl where it rains, the air is salty, you are not afraid of the rain and the stem bolts are exposed to the weather. In these conditions, in spite of all the theoretical arguements about accuracy of torque recommendations, greasing the threads to protect them would make sense. My choice would be low friction stuff like MoS2 (as sold/supplied for automotive cv joints) or Brucey's SFG but the choice is yours.
2 It only takes a little bit of loose metal/dirt on the thread going into aluminium to make the threads pick up a bit and a couple of goes later the thread is damaged enough to no longer accept being tightened correctly. Degreasing the threads and cleaning them with a soft wire brush (like the little brass brushes once used on spark plugs) before regreasing the bolt (and degreasing/cleaning the threads in the stem - not easy I know) would probably save the stem a bit.
3 (Ok I only said two!) It is highly likely that the maker did not intend his product to be undone and done up as frequently as you have to. I don't suppose there is a lot of difference between makers in this respect and they are all probably using a flavour of 6000 series alloy. It may be that you simply have to accept on security grounds that there is a limit to the number of times you can repeat the undoing-retightening cycle and that stems have a finite life before being recycled. It's for you to decide how many cycles you can do but keeping a count would be a good idea (and keeping a replacement stem to hand!)

That torque wrench needs testing with a known weight.  Something is clearly wrong.

My rule of thumb method for this kind of bolt is:

1. Tighten with the "wrong" end of the allen key, the one that gives least leverage
2. Then half a turn with the "right" side

I have never stripped a thread on a bike, at least not that I can remember.

The rule of thumb (worked out by the USAnians) for construction equipment was "snug + two flats" but that was on steel components. Yours would come out at + three flats which might allow for stretch in aluminium or might be a touch too far. (It is of course a far cry from the snug + 2 turns for the sidebolts on a big hydraulic breaker!).

The other alternative (as my dad assured me was used by RR on aluminium motors in things like Princesses) was a short series spanner and "as tight as you can!"

fruitcake

  • some kind of fruitcake
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #18 on: 28 April, 2022, 09:33:32 pm »
Lubricating the threads is v important, as it lets you get the bolt tighter for a given amount of force. Almost any lubricant will do.
As this is YACF, I now expect this thread to descend to the usual depths of smut and innuendo, because I have use the word lubricant. I give it three posts.

BFC

  • ACME Wheelwright and Bike Fettler
Re: Stripped threads
« Reply #19 on: 30 April, 2022, 02:12:48 pm »
Some high end components fit helicoils during manufacture (eg DA stuff), a correctly fitted helicoil is a lot more robust/durable than any thread directly into aluminium, and avoids problems with pick up of aluminium in the SS bolt threads (which is how most threads into aluminium get stripped). Lubricating the threads does help in preventing pick up of aluminium in a bolts threads that do go directly into aluminium.

Using oversize bolts on most stem designs is not to be recommended due to the relatively small amount of material underneath the head/around the bolts on the cap plate. Many stem designs use a reduced head diameter bolt as well.